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Does the Afghanistan Catastrophe Hurt or Help the Democrats Next Election (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter TripItUp
- Start date
AAABatteries
Footballguy
My vote is no impact - I base this on the fact that 98% of the country couldn't find Afghanistan on a map if you offered them a million dollars.
quick-hands
Footballguy
You could answer that poll and have it mean the same thing.
TripItUp
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
Yes it helps them
No It helps them
No It helps them
It depends.
If Americans are all evacuated with no casualties then I think it will have little if any impact. Those of us that are here are more in tune with political issues but average Americans largely wont care by next year.
I voted no impact as of now.
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I think it's hard to conclude at this point. If we start seeing increased terrorism that seems to be originating from Afghanistan, it hurts. If we start seeing constant reports of rape/murder coming from Afghanistan, it hurts. If, once we have all our people out of Afghanistan in a few weeks, we never hear about the place again it won't have an impact. I don't think it will help though. How many of us even gave Afghanistan much thought in the last 5 years?
TripItUp
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Right...and timing. We are too far out from midterms. If this is not a long drawn out things and Americans get out safely...I don't think the issue is impacting the next election.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
Many Americans don’t have the attention span for this debacle to impact the 2021 elections so 2022 and 2024 are out of the question.
Agree with that. Most American wont remember this next week let alone next year.
Covid and the economy...not now but where we are next year...will likely be the major issues along with whatever the political news is at that time.
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Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Pretty much agree with every post in here. As for the poll results, also agree that there is no "it helps" outcome. If it hurts them at all, and by how much, seem like the only viable outcomes.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
From that perspective I'm willing to give Biden a little bit of credit (or would have Trump too) - they both would have been doing something that ultimately they really couldn't get a bump from. I would hope that's what all of our Presidents do versus kicking the can down the road. But Biden has screwed up the pull out which probably will mean that any good will he gets for having finally gotten us out of there will go away. But again - that's only for the people paying attention - vast majority of people don't care and/or aren't watching what is happening.
Dickies
Footballguy
I don't think it will have much of an impact, but we'll have to wait and see. I tend to think that Afghanistan will be forgotten from our collective memory within the next 12 months.
The images of Afghanis at the airport are gut-wrenching, but there is still a part of me that's glad we finally ripped the band-aid off.
The images of Afghanis at the airport are gut-wrenching, but there is still a part of me that's glad we finally ripped the band-aid off.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Agreed. Ironically Trump and Biden share the same intention, Trump pulling out of Afghanistan was something he touted loudly and often and in many ways Biden was carrying out the actual withdrawal Trump himself called for. However, Joe's administration should have coordinated the pullout better. And that's an understatement. With our expertise in logistics, the capabilities we bring with technology, the withdrawal should have been much better coordinated.
supermike80
Footballguy
REALLY depends on who can spin it the best.
I want to add inflation to the above. It arguably could be the most important issue by next years election.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
next election is pretty far out, generally at the mid terms, the party not in power does well anyway. I don't think this current issue will be relevant in Nov of 2022.
Dr_Zaius
Footballguy
I think the bold is why it has to at least hurt a little bit. Disturbing images leave an impression on people, and they will associate those with Biden. I agree with others that that might not necessarily be "fair" as there will be plenty of blame to go around, but I think it will leave a permanent negative impression that will be associated with this administration, even if it's largely subconscious for a lot of people. That said, the average voter has the attention span of a goldfish, so it's hard to say how much weight it will carry on people's minds once the election rolls around.
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
Most certainly hurts
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Prior to the election, I saw a lot of Trump supporters pointing to the idea that Trump wasn't interested in The U.S. being the worlds police anymore. I don't think because Biden did this and got the U.S. out of a 20 year police situation, those people are going to all of a sudden support him.
Biden could get a little heat from the situation based on the idea that he's bascially been part of this on the Federal level for the past 20 years (Senator/Veep/POTUS). It would have been far worse for him if Americans died in the past few days; but as it stands, it looks like American citizens will be alright.
I say "Push". He doesn't get any pop from Trump supporters who liked the idea Trump was doing this....he doesn't get hit hard from the Centrists; as long as Americans aren't killed....he doesn't lose he base because A) Americans are out of a war zone and that's a good thing and B) his base probably doesn't care TOO much about Afghanistan.( although he probably will get a little flack for the Human Rights atrocities that will come out of this.
Biden could get a little heat from the situation based on the idea that he's bascially been part of this on the Federal level for the past 20 years (Senator/Veep/POTUS). It would have been far worse for him if Americans died in the past few days; but as it stands, it looks like American citizens will be alright.
I say "Push". He doesn't get any pop from Trump supporters who liked the idea Trump was doing this....he doesn't get hit hard from the Centrists; as long as Americans aren't killed....he doesn't lose he base because A) Americans are out of a war zone and that's a good thing and B) his base probably doesn't care TOO much about Afghanistan.( although he probably will get a little flack for the Human Rights atrocities that will come out of this.
Witz
Footballguy
####ting in another thread I see?Just here to see the spin on how it helps.
#butTrumporBushoranythingnotourside
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I would think just as it sits right now, next elections Republican's will say covid is a disaster with more dying under Biden than Trump, inflation is taking off bigly, gas prices high, 4-5 trillion in added debt, collapse of Afghanistan .... its probably the worst first 6 months of any President ever
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Agree with this. I am glad we are out but the pull out was not planned at all.
It hurts in the sense that they could have run on "Bringing the Troops Home" if things had gone differently.
If Delta is under control and the economy is humming people won't care. But if they're not, the Afghan catastrophe will add to the sense that the administration is incompetent.
If Delta is under control and the economy is humming people won't care. But if they're not, the Afghan catastrophe will add to the sense that the administration is incompetent.
rockaction
Footballguy
I was going to say I can't see how it helps but then I imagine a lot -- and I mean a lot -- of people consuming the network news tonight, depending on the images and framing, and thinking "About time."
It will certainly hurt if you're paying careful attention to the utter misreading of the situation or if you were a military member or family who lost a loved one over there, but if you're weary voter, maybe not.
Can't decide. Can't see how it helps tremendously, though, and it has the potential to really hurt.
That said, I agree that the #MAGA crowd wanted out so badly, and we know that crowd drives the Republican party now. Who is going to protest doing what Trump would have done? The true conservatives? Mitt Romney is a RINO right now. The neocons? They were dead with Liz Cheney's problem with the Rs.
There is no position in the R party other than that of withdrawl, so I don't see how it helps Republicans even if it hurts Democrats. If anything, it bolsters the claims of the Greens and Libertarians who said we shouldn't have been there in the first place.
It will certainly hurt if you're paying careful attention to the utter misreading of the situation or if you were a military member or family who lost a loved one over there, but if you're weary voter, maybe not.
Can't decide. Can't see how it helps tremendously, though, and it has the potential to really hurt.
That said, I agree that the #MAGA crowd wanted out so badly, and we know that crowd drives the Republican party now. Who is going to protest doing what Trump would have done? The true conservatives? Mitt Romney is a RINO right now. The neocons? They were dead with Liz Cheney's problem with the Rs.
There is no position in the R party other than that of withdrawl, so I don't see how it helps Republicans even if it hurts Democrats. If anything, it bolsters the claims of the Greens and Libertarians who said we shouldn't have been there in the first place.
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Godsbrother
Footballguy
I say it will hurt but it was the right decision. Sometimes you have do stuff and not worry about the political fallout.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
GoBirds
Footballguy
Witz
Footballguy
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Man, when it comes to pummeling the crap out of a strawman, no one does it like GB. I bow before your incredible skillsJust here to see the spin on how it helps.
#butTrumporBushoranythingnotourside
GoBirds
Footballguy
Not sure you even know what a straw man is, never miss a chance toMan, when it comes to pummeling the crap out of a strawman, no one does it like GB. I bow before your incredible skills
though that’s for sure. 
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Dunno, probably depends how it's spun and the amount of casualties occur on the withdrawl.
It's a mix of people not caring in general, people thinking it's a bigger win that we got out vs. what happens after, and people that would really be focused on the botched withdrawl.
Overall, I don't think things like this either way are really high on people's voting priorities, so I voted no impact.
It's a mix of people not caring in general, people thinking it's a bigger win that we got out vs. what happens after, and people that would really be focused on the botched withdrawl.
Overall, I don't think things like this either way are really high on people's voting priorities, so I voted no impact.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm a right-winger who voted for Biden because I wanted to see basic democratic norms reestablished in Washington and to see our government operate competently. I'm honestly embarrassed about that vote right now. If I wanted a mentally incapacitated empty suit weakening the US and getting people killed through shoddy decision making, I could have just voted for the Republican and at least gotten a tax break or something.
I don't know how many people out there fall into that same category, but this was a permanent deal-breaker for me. I'm not going to vote for any Republicans in 2022 probably, but I definitely won't vote for any Democrats now and I was very inclined to do so a week ago.
I don't know how many people out there fall into that same category, but this was a permanent deal-breaker for me. I'm not going to vote for any Republicans in 2022 probably, but I definitely won't vote for any Democrats now and I was very inclined to do so a week ago.
Sure. And I give him all the credit in the world for actually getting out. But I don't think that message plays well with the images we're seeing out of Kabul. At minimum it would be a gamble to try to tout this as an accomplishment IMO.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I mean, Republicans can and will say all that, but how much would really effect a strict D voter or people floating in the middle?
As far as covid, I think more blame people not vaccinating vs. Biden. I know I understand or care very little about inflation and would guess a ton of Joe Voter's don't think a ton about it either. The 4-5 T in debt? - again that comes down to your view of the importance of what it's being spent on, and like I pointed out - I think people would expect Afghanistan to collapse on itself so not sure that would sway people since most of us thought getting out was the right move and long overdue.
I think if the 2nd infrastructure package gets through and people get the daily benefit of some of that, tangible things like that usually factor in more than debt and Afghanistan.
timschochet
Footballguy
Despite our disagreements on various issues (especially regarding the MSM) I regard you as one of the most thoughtful people in this forum. But this reaction doesn’t sound at all like your usual nuanced approach. Biden bungled some of this, his advisors bungled some of this, but it’s not as catastrophic as you’re claiming and the “mentally incapacitated” part is sheer conservative propaganda with no bearing on reality. I’ll be curious to see if you still feel this strongly a few months from now, and disappointed if you do.
GW Bush had fewer gaffs but the MSM, who you believe is a flawless unbiased source of wisdom, had a field day mocking him. Sarah Palin showed more wits than Biden is showing.
timschochet
Footballguy
I don’t believe the MSM is flawless; I just don’t think it’s as biased as conservatives love to claim.
I have no idea how the rest of your response is relevant to what I posted.
-fish-
Footballguy
I don't think it matters that much a year from now. The average voter wants our troops out of Afghanistan . We've been stuck there for 20 years, spent a trillion dollars and accomplished very little. We knew that our withdrawal would go something like this (although I hear words like "orderly" being used as if that was an option). Nobody previously was willing to bear the consequences of ripping off the band aid and getting out.
While he's doing things that everyone wants that never get done because we know they'll be a disaster, he may as well finish closing Guantanamo too.
While he's doing things that everyone wants that never get done because we know they'll be a disaster, he may as well finish closing Guantanamo too.
squistion
Footballguy
Palin thought Africa was a single country not a continent.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/sarah-palin/3392934/Sarah-Palin-thought-Africa-was-a-single-country-aides-claim.html
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