rockaction
Footballguy
It's now been explained. This sounds awful.
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The Enforcement Mechanism Of The Texas Abortion Law - Execution En Masse (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter rockaction
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
johnnycakes
Footballguy
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NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
What the? . . .
https://www.vox.com/22653779/supreme-court-abortion-texas-sb8-whole-womans-health-jackson-roe-wade
I thought this is a pretty good summary
as far as i can tell. It's all private so not only can you be sued but you can be sued by anyone in texas any number of times. So if you are suspected of doing something that contradicts the legislation you could face 1000s of lawsuits and 1000s of penalties
I thought this is a pretty good summary
as far as i can tell. It's all private so not only can you be sued but you can be sued by anyone in texas any number of times. So if you are suspected of doing something that contradicts the legislation you could face 1000s of lawsuits and 1000s of penalties
Rich Conway
Footballguy
I cannot confirm, but I have also read that the law allowed suits even if the actual abortion occurred outside the state.
rockaction
Footballguy
Allegedly? So you could accuse somebody of having an abortion and the sue them? That’s nuts. How will anybody know?
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Isn't there also a provision that prevents a successful defendant from recovering court costs?
rockaction
Footballguy
This is crazy-sounding.
and sued thousands of times. There is no limit and you know the anti-abortion groups are going to go hard into the entrapment.
you could be a mom that takes their 16 year daughter to california and face 1000s of private lawsuits for millions of $$$s
Yes, so if you lose you are still out.
And again you could face 100 lawsuits simultaneously
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rockaction
Footballguy
Crazy. I’d love to know what wikkid thinks of this enforcement mechanism.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I'm no lawyer, but why wouldn't those lawsuits be thrown out on standing?
Do I have that right?
-fish-
Footballguy
The law that Texas adopted specifically gave standing to any member of the public that wants to bring an action in Texas. I'm not sure if you have to be a Texas citizen or not.
This entire approach was suggested by one of Scalia's law clerks in a paper about a hypothetical abortion law that could be upheld by the SC. It's similar to a qui tam action, where an individual acts on behalf of the state as a "private attorney general" to enforce the laws of a state. Since it's not actually state action, nobody can seek an injunction prior to a suit being filed.
beef
Footballguy
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
If I'm reading the language of the law correctly, it actually makes it possible for a person to sue anyone who HELPS someone to get an abortion.
And since the law explicitly protects the accuser, it means that anyone can file a claim against anyone else, without evidence. And the accused will be required to pay their own legal bills, even if the lawsuit is deemed to be frivolous.
My daughter in LA says she and the liberal community have been submitting fakes tips. Like John Hagee performed an abortion on Joel Osteen in Houston. They aim to crash the reporting systems. This is one of the reporting websites:
http://www6.profilewhistlerblower.com/?template=VERTICAL_LINES&tdfs=0&s_token=1630694202.0279320000&uuid=1630694202.0279320000&term=Whistleblower Hotline Service Provider&term=Pro Life Online Petitions&term=Whistleblower Privacy Policy&searchbox=0&showDomain=0&backfill=0
http://www6.profilewhistlerblower.com/?template=VERTICAL_LINES&tdfs=0&s_token=1630694202.0279320000&uuid=1630694202.0279320000&term=Whistleblower Hotline Service Provider&term=Pro Life Online Petitions&term=Whistleblower Privacy Policy&searchbox=0&showDomain=0&backfill=0
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
This is starting to sound like a law written by lawyers.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is akin to Islamist adultery law, only there's no bodily retribution or centralized mechanism of enforcement.
But it is decentralized in the accuser simply need have hearsay to bring a case, in effect. What a mess.
But it is decentralized in the accuser simply need have hearsay to bring a case, in effect. What a mess.
rockaction
Footballguy
This is starting to sound nuts, is what it sounds like. This is the kind of thing that starts civil wars. It's actually a step towards anarchy, properly understood. It's a complete devolution of state law into the hands of the people, enforced by the older system's central nervous system.
[scooter]
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
And this is state-wide?
One can only imagine the losses for Republicans that voted for this or enforce it at the state level. Congratulations. You just handed Texas to the Democrats. If this flies, then I wonder how long Texas survives.
One can only imagine the losses for Republicans that voted for this or enforce it at the state level. Congratulations. You just handed Texas to the Democrats. If this flies, then I wonder how long Texas survives.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
We should all file a lawsuit against Gov. Abbot alleging he aided in an abortion. Let him defend himself.
rockaction
Footballguy
Wow. This is exactly what I worried about with abortion law and it came home to roost, only much more quickly and perniciously than I ever imagined. Holy calama####.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Don't worry they were smart enough to pass a restrictive voting bill alongside it to make sure they maintain control.
[scooter]
Footballguy
Why stop at one lawsuit? Abbot arguably aids in every abortion that ever takes place in the state.
Sure, that argument might seem ridiculous on its face. But the state won't be able to stop an infinite number of people from making that argument in court. At Abbot's expense.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Rich Conway
Footballguy
Boy will Republicans throw a fit when California passes a law allowing any citizen to sue any other citizen for reckless endangerment by virtue of holding, handling, firing, or storing firearms or ammunition within two miles of any other human being, with all the same provisions, of course (explicitly protect the plaintiff, allow multiple suits against one individual for a single "offense", allow suits against anyone who assisted the gun handler such as the seller, delivery person, manufacturer, etc.).
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I'm sure this will fail, but I do find it amusing TST is turning the tables on religious freedom.
THE SATANIC TEMPLE V. TEXAS
The Satanic Temple Sues Texas For Abortion Restrictions That Impede TST's Religious Abortion Ritual
"The abortion ritual (1) requires an abortion; and (2) affirms her religious subscription to TST's Third and Fifth Tenets. But before Ms. Doe can get her abortion–and therefore participate in the abortion ritual–the government has required that she get a sonogram… [ These ] requirements substantially interfere with Ms. Doe's religious beliefs and practices for two reasons. First, the requirements are a precondition to Ms. Doe's ability to participate in a religious ceremony. It is a substantial interference per se for the state to place a regulatory hurdle–one that costs money–in front of a religious exercise. The state might as well tax and regulate Mass."
ETA:
WHY THIS CASE MATTERS
This lawsuit directly challenges restrictive abortion laws that violate TST’s religious beliefs in a state that champions religous liberty through their implementation of Texas’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act. This case serves as the basis for establishing our claims to religious exemptions from abortion restrictions in states across the nation. We expect that Texas will respect our claims to religious liberty and permit Satanists their religious exemptions from medically unnecessary and unscientific abortion procedures that are designed to guilt and shame patients when receiving reproductive care.
THE SATANIC TEMPLE V. TEXAS
The Satanic Temple Sues Texas For Abortion Restrictions That Impede TST's Religious Abortion Ritual
"The abortion ritual (1) requires an abortion; and (2) affirms her religious subscription to TST's Third and Fifth Tenets. But before Ms. Doe can get her abortion–and therefore participate in the abortion ritual–the government has required that she get a sonogram… [ These ] requirements substantially interfere with Ms. Doe's religious beliefs and practices for two reasons. First, the requirements are a precondition to Ms. Doe's ability to participate in a religious ceremony. It is a substantial interference per se for the state to place a regulatory hurdle–one that costs money–in front of a religious exercise. The state might as well tax and regulate Mass."
ETA:
WHY THIS CASE MATTERS
This lawsuit directly challenges restrictive abortion laws that violate TST’s religious beliefs in a state that champions religous liberty through their implementation of Texas’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act. This case serves as the basis for establishing our claims to religious exemptions from abortion restrictions in states across the nation. We expect that Texas will respect our claims to religious liberty and permit Satanists their religious exemptions from medically unnecessary and unscientific abortion procedures that are designed to guilt and shame patients when receiving reproductive care.
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beef
Footballguy
Some things are better left to preach about and not do. Pretty sure Texas will see a huge increase in women voters come 2022. Even Fox News doesn't seem to want to discuss the GOP's "victory" here.
Females are only slightly more in favor of abortion than men (see @IvanKaramazov link in the abortion) thread. Maybe it's enough in a close race.
rockaction
Footballguy
I don't. Now is not the time for the war of all against all.
Laws should be narrowly-tailored and enforcement within the executive purview of the state. There doesn't seem to be much to joke about in the Texas law. It's deliberately considered to bring citizen against citizen in the worst nod to religious impulses.
Max Power
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
That's there for posterity and I'm not deleting it.
Facism!
Facism!
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Well it hasn't come up yet but the door is open now to do pretty much anything and just have it citizen vs. citizen.
These are crazy times
Amused to Death
Footballguy
The TST lawsuit was filed before this current abortion law. Its purpose is to claim the same religious exemptions Texas has allowed for Christians.
I thought it was somewhat relevant to the new laws.
rockaction
Footballguy
It is. I wasn't saying you shouldn't post it. At all. I was saying I don't find it amusing.
rcam
Footballguy
beef
Footballguy
Yes, I did, and have seen other data like it. When broken down by age though it gets a lot more lopsided with the 35 and unders. That's the group, and the new voters that turn 18, that'd I'd expect a much larger turn out from.
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Rich Conway
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Blue states should pass laws for crimes against the environment. Then allow anyone to file a lawsuit against people/businesses who violate them.
Can you imagine how busy the courts are going to be with this new way of enforcing 'law'?
rockaction
Footballguy
They already do, if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly. I think the federal legislation allows for that.
It's not new; citizens bringing private causes of action to assure enforcement. What is new is that this is a Constitutional right. The gun example was a better one upthread.
Rich Conway
Footballguy
No, I think the new thing would be to allow, say, one person to sue another for owning plastic, transporting plastic, assisting to transport plastic, etc. Since the thing being alleged doesn't actually need to be illegal in the first place outside of the new law that makes it actionable, this is just as feasible, right?
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