White Elephant (1 Viewer)

OK, for everyone already frustrated, please realize we are pioneering a brand new type of draft. Fro had a terrific idea, but we can already see pretty significant problems with it's implementation. I've been thinking on this for 3 days, and think I have found the solution.

The basic concept Fro had was to have a normal serpentine draft where it was possible to steal players (with limits) and thereby make every player in the draft technically available to every owner regardless of actual draft position.

The big problem with the rules as we've been trying to do this is that they present an enormous advantage to folks drafting out of certain positions (the ends). Another problem is that the draft rules are already more complicated then anything any of us have ever tried.

First let me lay down my proposed rules, then I will analyse the new strengths and weaknesses of the various draft positions, as well as how to use these rules to your own advantage.

The biggest thing is scrapping the idea that EVERY player is available for stealing at some point. There is no fair way to implement that (and I've turned this over in my mind a hundred different ways).

If you read the rules carefully though, you'll find that over half of the players drafted will still be "stealable".

RULES:

1. You may never steal a player ORIGANALLY picked before your last pick.

2. You may steal ONLY an owners last pick.

3. 8 hour clock applies to fresh picks and steals. NO CLOCK applies to re-picks taken from the player pool. NOTE: a replacement pick must be made before your next pick.

4. For re-picks, you may not steal anyone drafted before your origanel pick.

5. For origanel draft position purposes, a player taken from the player pool on a repick is to be considered as the SAME DRAFT SLOT AS THE the person currently on the clock.

6. Five steal limit for the draft.

That's it....very simple rules, easy to remember, easy to test whether or not a pick is "stealable".

Now...the implications:

Rule #2 prevents you from ever reaching more then a full round back to steal a pick. If you do the math, that means that everyone has an AVERAGE of 7.5 picks they can steal per pick. Those at the ends will have 15 potential players to steal on their first pick, but NONE on their second. draft slots 2 and 15 would have 14 players to potentially steal on one pass, but only 1 on the next, MOST of the time. (Read further.)

Rules 1 and 2 combined mean that you never will have more then one opportunity to steal any individual player.

Rule 4 prevents you from ever revisiting players drafted before your origanel pick on re-picks (you never get more then ONE chance to steal any individual player)

BLOCKING: How to prevent your pick from being stolen depends on draft position. Guys at the turn automaticly block their first pick (or steal) from being stolen simply by making their second pick in the same post. HOWEVER, they have no way to protect their second pick since it's a fresh pick and every other drafter will have the opportunity to steal them. The only "block" for the second pick would be to pick somebody well ahead of ADP, someone unlikely to be stolen in the next 15 picks.

Guys in the middle (8, 9 draft slots) will always have vulnerable picks, but this is balanced somewhat by the fact that they also always have at least 7 potential players to steal. These guys may be best served by hoarding their steals and trying to pick one round ahead of ADP in the early rounds, then getting back at the end guys later. With patience, the middle pick slots can dominate the early middle rounds (4-8)

For everyone not at the end or the middle, they can incorporate both strategies.

If you steal a player, that is your origanel pick. Folks after you may steal that player from you as long as they haven't already neglected the opportunity to steal that specific player.

Ex: At slot 1.6, you make an origanel pick. Draft slot 1.10 then steals that player. Instead of doing another steal yourself, you choose to repick from the player pool while 2.2 is OTC. Your repick has an origanel pick value of 2.2. Players from 2.2 through 2.10 then would have the chance to steal your re-pick.

You COULD have chosen to wait until just before your scheduled 2.10 pick to pick from the player pool, and thereby ensure your pick can't be stolen again. Or you could repick it as soon as possible, hoping it gets stolen to help burn up everybody elses steals....hoarding yours for paybacks later.

In closing: This does take away from Fro's origanel concept of making every player available, but it also greatly evens things out for fairness. It may still be inadequate and may require more tweaking. The implications are complex, but the rules are simple enough that any attempted steal can be easily tested for validity. If you think out the likely scenarios (I thought out dozens), it should provide for far more balanced results.

It also would be required that any time you steal a pick, you must inform both the next draft slot AND the guy you stole from.

If we move to these rules, I would suggest we restart the draft from the first pick.

WE could change rule #2 to 16 picks (a full round) back, but that would make tracking far more difficult. The advantage to that is that it will open up more steal opportunities.

EDITED TO UPDATE BASED ON SUGGESTIONS AFTER THE INTIAL POSTING AND TO ADD THE "STEAL TEST"

STEAL TEST:

A PLAYER MAY BE STOLEN IF AND ONLY IF IT PASSES THIS TEST:

1. Is it that owner's last pick taken? If yes....

2. Have I had a pick (including making a steal) since this player was FIRST DRAFTED FROM THE PLAYER POOL....if no, then....

3. Did I have the opportunity to steal this player before...if no....then

You can steal him.

renesauz said:

OK, for everyone already frustrated, please realize we are pioneering a brand new type of draft. Fro had a terrific idea, but we can already see pretty significant problems with it's implementation. I've been thinking on this for 3 days, and think I have found the solution.

The basic concept Fro had was to have a normal serpentine draft where it was possible to steal players (with limits) and thereby make every player in the draft technically available to every owner regardless of actual draft position.

The big problem with the rules as we've been trying to do this is that they present an enormous advantage to folks drafting out of certain positions (the ends). Another problem is that the draft rules are already more complicated then anything any of us have ever tried.

First let me lay down my proposed rules, then I will analyse the new strengths and weaknesses of the various draft positions, as well as how to use these rules to your own advantage.

The biggest thing is scrapping the idea that EVERY player is available for stealing at some point. There is no fair way to implement that (and I've turned this over in my mind a hundred different ways).

If you read the rules carefully though, you'll find that over half of the players drafted will still be "stealable".

RULES:

1. You may never steal a player ORIGANALLY picked before your last pick.

2. You may steal ONLY an owners last pick.

3. 8 hour clock applies to fresh picks and steals. NO CLOCK applies to re-picks taken from the player pool. (But the 8 hour clock still applies to STEAL a replacement pick) NOTE: a replacement pick must be made before your next pick.

4. For re-picks, you may not steal anyone drafted before your origanel pick.

5. For origanel draft position purposes, a player taken from the player pool on a repick is to be considered as the SAME DRAFT SLOT AS THE the person currently on the clock.

6. Five steal limit for the draft.

That's it....very simple rules, easy to remember, easy to test whether or not a pick is "stealable".

Now...the implications:

Rule #2 prevents you from ever reaching more then a full round back to steal a pick. If you do the math, that means that everyone has an AVERAGE of 7.5 picks they can steal per pick. Those at the ends will have 15 potential players to steal on their first pick, but NONE on their second. draft slots 2 and 15 would have 14 players to potentially steal on one pass, but only 1 on the next, MOST of the time. (Read further.)

Rules 1 and 2 combined mean that you never will have more then one opportunity to steal any individual player.

Rule 4 prevents you from ever revisiting players drafted before your origanel pick on re-picks (you never get more then ONE chance to steal any individual player)

BLOCKING: How to prevent your pick from being stolen depends on draft position. Guys at the turn automaticly block their first pick (or steal) from being stolen simply by making their second pick in the same post. HOWEVER, they have no way to protect their second pick since it's a fresh pick and every other drafter will have the opportunity to steal them. The only "block" for the second pick would be to pick somebody well ahead of ADP, someone unlikely to be stolen in the next 15 picks.

Guys in the middle (8, 9 draft slots) will always have vulnerable picks, but this is balanced somewhat by the fact that they also always have at least 7 potential players to steal. These guys may be best served by hoarding their steals and trying to pick one round ahead of ADP in the early rounds, then getting back at the end guys later. With patience, the middle pick slots can dominate the early middle rounds (4-8)

For everyone not at the end or the middle, they can incorporate both strategies.

If you steal a player, that is your origanel pick. Folks after you may steal that player from you as long as they haven't already neglected the opportunity to steal that specific player.

Ex: At slot 1.6, you make an origanel pick. Draft slot 1.10 then steals that player. Instead of doing another steal yourself, you choose to repick from the player pool while 2.2 is OTC. Your repick has an origanel pick value of 2.2. Players from 2.2 through 2.10 then would have the chance to steal your re-pick.

You COULD have chosen to wait until just before your scheduled 2.10 pick to pick from the player pool, and thereby ensure your pick can't be stolen again. Or you could repick it as soon as possible, hoping it gets stolen to help burn up everybody elses steals....hoarding yours for paybacks later. If you had made your re-pick BEFORE the turn, then nobody after the turn would have a chance to steal the pick, since it would violate rule #2.

In closing: This does take away from Fro's origanel concept of making every player available, but it also greatly even things out for fairness. It may still be inadequate and may require more tweaking. The implications are complex, but the rules are simple enough that any attempted steal can be easily tested for validity. If you think out the likely scenarios (I thought out dozens), it should provide for far more balanced results.

It also would be required that any time you steal a pick, you must inform both the next draft slot AND the guy you stole from.

If we move to these rules, I would suggest we restart the draft from the first pick.

WE could change rule #2 to 16 picks (a full round) back, but that would make tracking far more difficult. The advantage to that is that it will open up more steal opportunities.

Click to expand...

So Duckboy basically gets LT at 1.16 and he can't be stolen by rule.

I don't think you can ever have more than one player OTC at once.

So Duckboy basically gets LT at 1.16 and he can't be stolen by rule.

True, but with a limit. If he picks a true 2.01 player, his pick will be stolen by THE SAME GUY HE STOLE LT FROM. Of course, Ducky can return the favor once again and steal the 3.01 pick, and have the foavor returned again.

In the end, all the two would accomplish would be to flip their picks through five rounds, and essentially WASTE their steals since they never gained a true advantage from them.

That's no more unfair then if Ducky had drawn the 1.01 slot to begin with!

You have to think deeper. Somebody mentioned that one possible strategy would be to always draft a round AHEAD of ADP, waiting for other to burn up their steals. You could use that as a chance to show off who you think the sleepers are. EG: I took McNabb in the draft thinking he will be the top QB this year, but wouldn't normally be considered before the mid second round. Nobody is likely to steal him, and I don't have to waste a steal trying (in vain) to aquire a first round talent. BUT, I will be able to use a steal in the second round to aquire an early second round talent when a normal draft would have netted me a LATE second rounder. By being smart, I can save my steals, have essentially two second round talents, two fourths, etc. Later in the draft I can steal some of those odd rounders when most are getting slim on steals.

There will be other workable strategies, involving burning your steals earlier to ensure you get the early round talent, but then you'll be at the mercy of the guys keeping their steals in the critical middle rounds, and will have trouble building depth.

Fullback Fro said:

I don't think you can ever have more than one player OTC at once.

Click to expand...

Only one person is ever OTC for an origanel pick.The only other limit is 8 hours from the time your pick is stolen before you must take a fresh player instead of using a steal.That prevents you from waiting until just before the thief who robbed you picks again, and thereby unfairly minimizing the chance of being robbed again.I suppose that's probably not necessary though, as long as the first rules are adhered to (never steal past your last pick, or farther back then any owners last pick.

Fullback Fro said:

I don't think you can ever have more than one player OTC at once.

Click to expand...

renesauz said:

So Duckboy basically gets LT at 1.16 and he can't be stolen by rule.

Click to expand...

True, but with a limit. If he picks a true 2.01 player, his pick will be stolen by THE SAME GUY HE STOLE LT FROM. Of course, Ducky can return the favor once again and steal the 3.01 pick, and have the foavor returned again.In the end, all the two would accomplish would be to flip their picks through five rounds, and essentially WASTE their steals since they never gained a true advantage from them.That's no more unfair then if Ducky had drawn the 1.01 slot to begin with!You have to think deeper. Somebody mentioned that one possible strategy would be to always draft a round AHEAD of ADP, waiting for other to burn up their steals. You could use that as a chance to show off who you think the sleepers are. EG: I took McNabb in the draft thinking he will be the top QB this year, but wouldn't normally be considered before the mid second round. Nobody is likely to steal him, and I don't have to waste a steal trying (in vain) to aquire a first round talent. BUT, I will be able to use a steal in the second round to aquire an early second round talent when a normal draft would have netted me a LATE second rounder. By being smart, I can save my steals, have essentially two second round talents, two fourths, etc. Later in the draft I can steal some of those odd rounders when most are getting slim on steals.There will be other workable strategies, involving burning your steals earlier to ensure you get the early round talent, but then you'll be at the mercy of the guys keeping their steals in the critical middle rounds, and will have trouble building depth.

Click to expand...

This is workable, and I agree. It's a very novel approach, and if it helps get people on board I'm willing to throw away the 16th pick (ie reroll) as I see that there are mutliple strategies in play here and I'd be willing to work from any point. For instance, another strategy would be to force a steal; as an example, why would the high picks take LT knowing he would be taken. However at some point it makes sense for someone to take LT and force the 16th pick to burn a steal - 13th pick? 14th pick? Even the 15th pick?Someone has to get the 16th pick; just happened to be me here.ETA: I agree that one OTC at a time makes the most sense and is just easier to manage. Effectively it only adds another 5 rounds max, so (given 20 takes about 2+ weeks) another 3 days or so. Endgame may overlap the start of PDSLs, but that's the late ends versus the early rounds, and I think most of us involved could keep up with 2 at a time.

Like I said, we could throw that part out.

I suppose if you were robbed, it's not such a big thing to wait until just before your next pick to rob somebody. After all, you'd also be blocking yourself from using your next pick to do a steal since there would be nobody to steal from!

Any other thoughts?

Let's get it all clear, and find any potential holes before we restart this thing, regardless of which set of rules we're using.

Added above before renesauz's posts:

I agree that one OTC at a time makes the most sense and is just easier to manage. Effectively it only adds another 5 rounds max, so (given 20 takes about 2+ weeks) another 3 days or so. Endgame may overlap the start of PDSLs, but that's the late ends versus the early rounds, and I think most of us involved could keep up with 2 at a time.

Anyone see any holes in my proposed rules?

I'm really liking them because it opens up a ton of potential draft strategies.

Adding to the discussion of the end slots: Like I said, If the ends both draft true to ADP, they can steal each other's picks through the first five rounds, and end up about the same in strength as they would on a normal redraft THROUGH FIVE ROUNDS. But later in the draft they would have no way to make up for a stolen second pick except to pick fresh from the player pool. If enough people chose to steal from them, they could end up with a roster full of players taken a half round after they should have been.

It becomes critical to choose your steal spots carefully so that they aren't wasted.

The whole draft also can become a F### your buddy draft. Imagine saving a steal until late, then stealing someones only Kicker or defense. If the ends burn their steals early, the guys they stole from can make them pay dearly later by making sure they can't get a K or a Def.

The only way to protect yourself then becomes to either draft your K/Def a couple rounds early(again getting screwed), or make sure you save a steal in case yours gets stolen.

There's a dozen different ways to play this draft.

The rules I proposed keep the heart of Fro's idea alive I think, but also should make for a fairer draft.

renesauz for commish.

Jeff Pasquino said:

renesauz for commish.

Click to expand...

Fullback Fro said:

Jeff Pasquino said:

renesauz for commish.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

As a nuc in the Navy, I ran some really wierd leagues with strange rules while I was an instuctor at prototype. (imagine incorporating things like completion percentage, injured reserve, and backup QB rule BEFORE the Iternet was a useful tool, in the early nineties)ETA: Navy Nucs love complicated games!

Old Milwaukee is giving proxy to Fro as he started this thing!

Let's get this thing restarted!

Guys I apologize profusely but I am going to have to bow out of this. I am making a short notice trip and will be gone from Saturday until the following Saturday or Sunday with sporadic internet access. So I will not have the time to devote to this. Again, I am sorry but I'm sure you won't have any problem replacing me. Good luck to all. This would have been fun.

sorry im thick

i dont understand the following:

1. You may never steal a player ORIGANALLY picked before your last pick.

5. For origanel draft position purposes, a player taken from the player pool on a repick is to be considered as the SAME DRAFT SLOT AS THE the person currently on the clock.

I'm still in - whichever way this plays out.

Some things might need to be worked out on the fly, but that's what I thought was going to happen the first time around.......

For this to work, someone (?Fro, Renesauz?) needs to be around early and often to keep things uncomplicated and running smoothly.

Fiddles said:

sorry im thick i dont understand the following:1. You may never steal a player ORIGANALLY picked before your last pick.5. For origanel draft position purposes, a player taken from the player pool on a repick is to be considered as the SAME DRAFT SLOT AS THE the person currently on the clock.

Click to expand...

pretty simple questions you can ask yourself to test whether a player is "stealable":1. Is it that owner's last pick taken? If yes....2. Have I had a pick (including making a steal) since this player was FIRST DRAFTED FROM THE PLAYER POOL....if no, then....3. Did I have the opportunity to steal this player before...if no....thenYou can steal him.It is possible that someone drafting before you gets robbed AFTER YOU PICK, then takes a fresh player from the pool. ON the swing back, you may have to chance to steal his repick. It is also possible that somewhere in there your pick got stolen, and you repicked (or stole) before your next pick became due. In which case, you would not be able to answer question 3 with a no...and therefore couldn't steal him.I wrote the rules so that it's easy to determine who you can steal, but leaves the strategy aspect of this whole thing intact. Just ask yourself those three questions any time you contemplate a steal, and you can't go wrong!Those three questions

Something I picked up reviewing the train wreck of the other two threads. When someones pick is stolen, the draft continues. That person needs a PM informing them of what happened, but they are under no obligation to immediately repick. In fact, in many cases it would be to their advantage to wait until their next pick comes up, steal the best player available to be stolen, and immediately pick their next pick, thereby blocking the stolen pick from being restolen, and still getting halfway decent value out of that particular draft pick. The disadvantage to that is that they then would have to pick a fresh player from the pool.

Remember...The three simple questions as to whether a pick is "stealable" and you can't go wrong!

Well this certainly makes it a bit more streamlined. I actually get the basic concept now. I R SMARTY NOW.

So should we re-roll and restart this tonight; or merely keep the draft spots we have an go again? I'm indifferent either way now that the rules are clearer.

For those at the top of the draft...think about the rules carefully. You are not necessarily screwed out of a high first round pick valued player.

Consider this scenario:

LT is taken at 1.01

I take LJ at 1.02

Westbrook is taken at 1.03

Duckboy, as expected, steals LT at 1.16, nobody stole LJ, afraid they'd be wasting a steal.

From the top of the draft, our man in slot 1.01 could then steal LJ, by the rules, as long as I (in slot 2) haven't made my second pick yet. Our man in slot 1 could essentially steal LJ and nobody could steal him again since everybody has already had the chance to steal him.

If done after the man at 2.14 has chosen, but before our #2 guy (me) has taken his second round (2.15) pick, our guy in the top slot has locked in his high first rounder, and doomed me to choosing(stealing) an early second rounder as my top pick.

If done earlier (say when pick 2.02 is still on the clock), then I could steal pick 1.03 (Westbrook) as long as I do so before our #3 guy is up.

You can see this pattern can repeat all the way up the line, and SOMEBODY from the first round will be doomed to a second round pick as their first pick. HOWEVER....it could be an early second, and if played right, could be locked quickly.

ETA: It's possible for our guy to secure BOTH a high first AND a high second round value pick, but he would have burned 2 steals very early. He could then do it again in the 3rd and fourth rounds, and burn two more. This isn't necessarily a good strategy though as he'll then be at EVERYONE's mercy for the rest of the draft. Having the first pick in every odd round, every pick he makes in the odd rounds would be stealable, and he would have no choice but to take a fresh pool player. He could doom himself to +1 round value for the rest of the draft, and risk being Kickerless or D/St-less.

This shouldn't invalidate any of the rules, but I wanted to put this out there to help people in their strategy thoughts.

tex said:

Guys I apologize profusely but I am going to have to bow out of this. I am making a short notice trip and will be gone from Saturday until the following Saturday or Sunday with sporadic internet access. So I will not have the time to devote to this. Again, I am sorry but I'm sure you won't have any problem replacing me. Good luck to all. This would have been fun.

Click to expand...

Looks like we need a replacement before we restart.Fro still has final word on all of this. This was his brainchild, (and a great one!) I'm good with whatever. All the rules I've laid out and scenarios I've run through were meant simply to close the loopholes in the rules and make the thing workable and fair.I have no problem with re-rolling if that's what folks would want to do.

Let's roll them bones!!

What do ya think Fro?

Edited the first post (rules) to update them after the discussions we've had.

I would suggest leaving it open for discussion for a few more hours, see if anyone can still find a hole in them. Plus, we still need a replacement owner.

Please seek another replacement for me. I have to be out of the office again all day tomorrow and some on Thursday. My son and his wife are coming into town on Friday and its the first time I have seen him since Christmas.

We are also traveling to Arkansas for three days next week, all without internet access. I can see that access is much more important than "normal" survivor drafts where some picks can be made with pre-draft lists and cell calls.

Hope that you guys can find two replacements just as easy as one. Funny that rzrback and Tex are the two departing!

Well in that case we could always roll with 14. I think the problem is if this doesn't start soon, we'll be running right into the PDSL's.

I agree. Run with 14 and go.

Sounds good to me. This is still Fro's baby though....is he OK with these rules?

ALSO: thought of a couple of small holes on my way home, needing a couple of minor adjustments to our normal surviver league rules.

TIMEOUTS: Since timeing out usually means being skipped, that would mean an unusual, and unfair advantage to the guys drafting right after the timed out person, since they would be afforded an extra, and potentially strong, steal opportunity. So instead......If you time out, you automatically draft "player X"...literally the draft thread will say "player X". Nobody would steal a fictitious player. Then when you finally make your pick, it MUST BE A FRESH PLAYER FROM THE PLAYER POOL. Normal steal rules apply to that pick from that point forward, with the same test applied to see whether the pick is "stealable". If that pick is stolen, the guy who timed out can then attempt a steal based on the normal rules.

ILLEGAL STEALS: Make sure you perform the test on any attempted steal. If you attempt a steal and it is determined to be an illegal steal....the "stolen" pick will be immediately returned to the correct owner, and you MUST then pick from the player pool. In addition...this counts as one of your steal attempts!

With two players gone, we definately need to re-roll. Where's Fro?

Fro might be a Left Coaster, not sure.

Anything in the rules need to adjust for 14 vs 16 teams?

Let's just go.

Nice catch on the "Z man rule" (can't decide? pass). Player X covers it.

1. Fro

2. renesauz

3. Rudy

4. Duckboy

5. Blue-Kun

6. radballs

7. Fiddles

8. Jeff Pasquino

9. Reaper

10. LHUCKS

11. Aaron Rudnicki

12. Ruffrodys05

13. OldMilwaukee

14. Pictus Cat

re-rolling...results forwarded to jeff.

R

Got copy of the roles.

Will be on cell now and PM picks (can't post on cell.)

tsauzedde@aol.com requested that 7 rolls of 2 1000-sided dice be rolled.

Roll them bones ... your dice are

Roll 1: 83, 738 = 821.

Roll 2: 967, 903 = 1870.

Roll 3: 62, 7 = 69.

Roll 4: 238, 937 = 1175.

Roll 5: 171, 216 = 387.

Roll 6: 980, 786 = 1766.

Roll 7: 851, 665 = 1516.

Mail was sent to you at tsauzedde@aol.com and to XXX .

and the next 7.....

tsauzedde@aol.com requested that 7 rolls of 2 1000-sided dice be rolled.

Roll them bones ... your dice are

Roll 1: 876, 401 = 1277.

Roll 2: 305, 679 = 984.

Roll 3: 129, 68 = 197.

Roll 4: 374, 49 = 423.

Roll 5: 422, 289 = 711.

Roll 6: 488, 136 = 624.

Roll 7: 454, 177 = 631.

Mail was sent to you at tsauzedde@aol.com and to XXX

Which makes the new draft order.....

1. renesauz, 1870

2. radballs, 1766

3. Fiddles, 1516

4. Jeff Pasquino, 1277

5. Duckboy, 1175

6. Reaper, 984

7. Fro, 821

8. Ruffrodys05, 711

9. Pictus Cat, 631

10. OldMilwaukee, 624

11. Aaron Rudnicki, 423

12. Blue-Kun, 387

13. LHUCKS, 197

14. Rudy, 69

edited to remove e-mail address of Pictus

the one draft where I WANTED the worst roll

renesauz said:

the one draft where I WANTED the worst roll :(

Click to expand...

Hey I was happy just taking the 2 guys out of the last order

I defer all managment to renesz

Figured this is as good a place for discussion as any.

Does anyone else use DD to track players along with these drafts? I know that Survivor =/= redraft so I'm just mapping who has what, but the steals really screw with this.

The best I got is a "virtual Player X" where I'm sticking a K in for anyone who had a player stolen so I can move forward, then boot him out and re-draft a player when they re-pick.

Just curious. Any better methods?

Jeff Pasquino said:

Figured this is as good a place for discussion as any.Does anyone else use DD to track players along with these drafts?

Click to expand...

I cut and pasted the WSL ADPs into an excel spreadsheet so I could be more low profile at work.

I'm thinking this draft drags so much because no one wants to PM picks for fear of theft.....

Jeff Pasquino said:

I'm thinking this draft drags so much because no one wants to PM picks for fear of theft.....

Click to expand...

yep exactly

Jeff Pasquino said:

Figured this is as good a place for discussion as any.Does anyone else use DD to track players along with these drafts? I know that Survivor =/= redraft so I'm just mapping who has what, but the steals really screw with this.The best I got is a "virtual Player X" where I'm sticking a K in for anyone who had a player stolen so I can move forward, then boot him out and re-draft a player when they re-pick.Just curious. Any better methods?

Click to expand...

Yes...run two versions of DD. Use the first just to track the players DRAFTED. It doesn't matter what squad DD has them on. That version is for keeping track of available players.The second version you only update when the player is locked. Later in the draft when steals are slim/rare, you can easily keep this second version up to date, and use just it.

renesauz said:

Sounds good to me. This is still Fro's baby though....is he OK with these rules?

ALSO: thought of a couple of small holes on my way home, needing a couple of minor adjustments to our normal surviver league rules.



TIMEOUTS: Since timeing out usually means being skipped, that would mean an unusual, and unfair advantage to the guys drafting right after the timed out person, since they would be afforded an extra, and potentially strong, steal opportunity. So instead......If you time out, you automatically draft "player X"...literally the draft thread will say "player X". Nobody would steal a fictitious player. Then when you finally make your pick, it MUST BE A FRESH PLAYER FROM THE PLAYER POOL. Normal steal rules apply to that pick from that point forward, with the same test applied to see whether the pick is "stealable". If that pick is stolen, the guy who timed out can then attempt a steal based on the normal rules.

ILLEGAL STEALS: Make sure you perform the test on any attempted steal. If you attempt a steal and it is determined to be an illegal steal....the "stolen" pick will be immediately returned to the correct owner, and you MUST then pick from the player pool. In addition...this counts as one of your steal attempts!

With two players gone, we definately need to re-roll. Where's Fro?

Click to expand...

Bump for 2008 ruling.

Jeff Pasquino said:

renesauz said:

Sounds good to me. This is still Fro's baby though....is he OK with these rules?

ALSO: thought of a couple of small holes on my way home, needing a couple of minor adjustments to our normal surviver league rules.



TIMEOUTS: Since timeing out usually means being skipped, that would mean an unusual, and unfair advantage to the guys drafting right after the timed out person, since they would be afforded an extra, and potentially strong, steal opportunity. So instead......If you time out, you automatically draft "player X"...literally the draft thread will say "player X". Nobody would steal a fictitious player. Then when you finally make your pick, it MUST BE A FRESH PLAYER FROM THE PLAYER POOL. Normal steal rules apply to that pick from that point forward, with the same test applied to see whether the pick is "stealable". If that pick is stolen, the guy who timed out can then attempt a steal based on the normal rules.

ILLEGAL STEALS: Make sure you perform the test on any attempted steal. If you attempt a steal and it is determined to be an illegal steal....the "stolen" pick will be immediately returned to the correct owner, and you MUST then pick from the player pool. In addition...this counts as one of your steal attempts!

With two players gone, we definately need to re-roll. Where's Fro?

Click to expand...

Bump for 2008 ruling.

Click to expand...

No issues with this as it's almost the reverse; OM is just making sure that his first pick at 11.15 can't be stolen, whereas it could be for the time that it took from his pick to mine.

Duckboy said:

Jeff Pasquino said:

renesauz said:

Sounds good to me. This is still Fro's baby though....is he OK with these rules?

ALSO: thought of a couple of small holes on my way home, needing a couple of minor adjustments to our normal surviver league rules.



TIMEOUTS: Since timeing out usually means being skipped, that would mean an unusual, and unfair advantage to the guys drafting right after the timed out person, since they would be afforded an extra, and potentially strong, steal opportunity. So instead......If you time out, you automatically draft "player X"...literally the draft thread will say "player X". Nobody would steal a fictitious player. Then when you finally make your pick, it MUST BE A FRESH PLAYER FROM THE PLAYER POOL. Normal steal rules apply to that pick from that point forward, with the same test applied to see whether the pick is "stealable". If that pick is stolen, the guy who timed out can then attempt a steal based on the normal rules.

ILLEGAL STEALS: Make sure you perform the test on any attempted steal. If you attempt a steal and it is determined to be an illegal steal....the "stolen" pick will be immediately returned to the correct owner, and you MUST then pick from the player pool. In addition...this counts as one of your steal attempts!

With two players gone, we definately need to re-roll. Where's Fro?

Click to expand...

Bump for 2008 ruling.

Click to expand...

No issues with this as it's almost the reverse; OM is just making sure that his first pick at 11.15 can't be stolen, whereas it could be for the time that it took from his pick to mine.

Click to expand...

I'll spell out the advantage of taking a timeout in the 2008 version of the WE discussion.