Fennis
Footballguy
Why are you bringing up that officer? He is not involved in this. Because a black cop was at the scene that means the police actions were justifiable?
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Housing While Black (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fennis
- Start date
ICON211
Footballguy
Are you sure it wasn't for suspicion of being in a chess club? You probably should have been hauled away too. Also, is your friend a black man or is his last name Black?
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wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
my post wasn't directed at you. just adding to the discussion.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
what do you mean he wasn't involved? Obama said police "officers". If this was just a racist cop acting stupid, surely a black officer would have either spoke up at the time or have backed Gates by now. If not, then either he doesn't believe that anything racist happened or he's an Uncle Tom, right?
Brave Sir Robin
Footballguy
I imagine the classes this guy teaches are wall-to-wall facts and objective analysis complete with bowtie wearing teacher's assistants. 
right.but, who do you believe? Gates says he was physically incapable of yelling loudly, yet the cop's account seems to indicate Gates was yelling so loud inside the house that he couldn't communicate with the other police on his radio or whatever.
the picture obviously doesn't really help solve that discrepancy.
Witz
Footballguy
Wait - but aren't you saying since a black man was arrested in his home it had to be racially motivated?
Witz
Footballguy
Why is this part even being argued? Not only are there police comments that he was yelling, but also neighbor testimony that he was yelling.right.but, who do you believe? Gates says he was physically incapable of yelling loudly, yet the cop's account seems to indicate Gates was yelling so loud inside the house that he couldn't communicate with the other police on his radio or whatever.
the picture obviously doesn't really help solve that discrepancy.
BoulderBob
Footballguy
Of course he was yelling, and probably being an all-around jackass(although the cops probably deserved this). Nevertheless, when you're a jackass to a cop, bad things usually happen to you...hence BS that followed.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Having read up on him now I see his profession is being black and advocating to white guilt that it should continue. He advocates that whites must understand african americans in terms of their african cultural roots affected by slavery and institutional racism rather than the euro-centric culture of their oppressive ancestors while simultaneously maintaining that whites will never really be able to do so. I dig that. He states judge us by our standards though you can never do so, and therefore should be guilty for the crimes that your fathers may or may not have committed depending on their social class, though I will impute to you the sins nonetheless.
The guy is Ward Churchill but unlike Professor Churchill has a slightly better rap and is actually of the ethnicity that he purports to be.
This guy is part of the problem.
The guy is Ward Churchill but unlike Professor Churchill has a slightly better rap and is actually of the ethnicity that he purports to be.
This guy is part of the problem.
Statorama
gangster
Why is this part even being argued? Not only are there police comments that he was yelling, but also neighbor testimony that he was yelling.right.but, who do you believe? Gates says he was physically incapable of yelling loudly, yet the cop's account seems to indicate Gates was yelling so loud inside the house that he couldn't communicate with the other police on his radio or whatever.
the picture obviously doesn't really help solve that discrepancy.
because it seems to be a big piece of the discrepancy between the two stories.how loud was the yelling?
Statorama
gangster
Tim, these rubes won't even admit Sarah Palin has displayed more day-to-day common sense in her lifetime than Barack Obama has.
Weapon of Mass Instruction
Watch my feet!
Never.
Witz
Footballguy
Come on now.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
The story is making much more sense now. Obama needs to issue an apology to the p;olice officers involved.
if this isn't a big deal, what are we even arguing about?sounds like the guy reacted poorly to the cops showing up at his house. don't think he should have been arrested but it doesn't seem like the cop was some huge racist villain either.
Witz
Footballguy
Agreed. This really should have been a non-issue to begin with. I think what most folks are upset about is that Gates is making the rounds on tv, print and radio saying that he was the victim of racial profiling and even Obama stated as much when clearly the facts do not support that accusation one bit.
thatguythere
Footballguy
I don't understand why Obama just didn't say.....I don't have all the facts of this incident and when I do I will comment on your question if you would like. Simple.
I don't know if this was posted, but here is the arrest report:
Arrest Report
I don't know if this was posted, but here is the arrest report:
Arrest Report
Witz
Footballguy
Because they are friends and as you should with friends, you stick up for them if the friend feels they have been wronged. Unfortunately, Obama, being in the position he is in, should have not commented on it (he even said he didn't have the facts to preface his statement). As someone mentioned above, he really does owe an apology to the police officers for maligning them.
Obama clearly qualified his statement by saying he was friends with the guy and was probably biased.
If it happened to a buddy of yours, I'm sure you'd think the cops acted stupidly as well.
If it happened to a buddy of yours, I'm sure you'd think the cops acted stupidly as well.
The Big Guy
Fear the Blitz
I just had police show up to my house because my 2 year old dialed 911 on our phone (actually dialed 91111111121111) and hung up the phone. So the police come knocking on my door to check on the dial/hang up on 911 to ensure things are fine. I opened the door, they asked me if all was ok and kept looking around for signs of a struggle and to see if I had perhaps killed someone.
I figured out how the police got called and showed them the redial display on the phone...they saw my child was fine and everything looked normal...glanced around one more time, gave me a quick lecture about my kid dialing the phone and left.
Now had I been a jerk to the policeman, I am sure that the visit would have gone differently, but I had no agenda and no reason to not show the officer respect, since he was responding to a call from my house.
Maybe the Professor could use a lesson in basic common courtesy and the methods of which normal people interact with others.
I figured out how the police got called and showed them the redial display on the phone...they saw my child was fine and everything looked normal...glanced around one more time, gave me a quick lecture about my kid dialing the phone and left.
Now had I been a jerk to the policeman, I am sure that the visit would have gone differently, but I had no agenda and no reason to not show the officer respect, since he was responding to a call from my house.
Maybe the Professor could use a lesson in basic common courtesy and the methods of which normal people interact with others.
Harry Manback
Footballguy
Also pretty sure Obama mentioned he didn't have all the facts as well, but don't let little details like that sway your preconcieved and desired negative notions of the man.
I'd probably think it, but wouldn't SAY IT ON NATIONAL TELEVISION.
thatguythere
Footballguy
Yes, "I don't have all the facts, but I still have an opinion that the police were stupid." Ah yes the details....but don't let them sway your preconceived notions of the man.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
The cops are in a no-win situation. What if the cops ignored the call and it was a home invasion and the professor was killed or injured? Lawsuits, cop-bashing.Police respond to calls for a reason. Will there be mistakes made, of course. This one seems very explainable. And nobody was hurt.When you are rushing to a scene of a possible BE in progress you are just trying to secure the home first. Then you sort out the rest of the details.
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wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
From Crowley's version of the events, it almost seems like Gates wanted to get arrested.
that's fine, but the arrest after the situation had been sorted out seems like it was probably unnecessary.if the main reason he was arrested is b/c he wanted to file a complaint against the officer, then that's lame.
thatguythere
Footballguy
Probably not. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if a buddy of mine was arrested after acting like a idiot and mouthing off to the police.
Statorama
gangster
Obama's response about this issue during his press conference was a microcosm of his presidency thus far.
Making concrete accusations and suppositions while forming opinions without having all of the facts, all while playing to his minority base.
Plus, having it as a pre-screened final question allows Obama to plant the seed of "if you hate my healthcare proposal, you're a racist" in the publics mind.
Making concrete accusations and suppositions while forming opinions without having all of the facts, all while playing to his minority base.
Plus, having it as a pre-screened final question allows Obama to plant the seed of "if you hate my healthcare proposal, you're a racist" in the publics mind.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
After reading the report there seems to be equal blame to go around. Gates was acting like a tool and the cop responded the same way.Again I go back to one thing. Had Gates just complied with the first question it would have been settled in a matter of minutes. They admitted they were putting their shoulders to the door trying to get in. That would look like a BE in progress.
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thatguythere
Footballguy
Read the arrest report.
Witz
Footballguy
How did the cop act like a tool again? By arresting someone who by all accounts aside from his own (Gates) was being belligerent during the entire episode?
The Z Machine
Footballguy
You should do it in your own home after NOT inviting a police officer into the home and showing him your identification. That would be more acceptable.I still stand by my previous remarks. Those police officers needed to back down and be more professional. It didn't reflect well to give Dr. Gates exactly what he wanted, publicity.Tim, at lunchtime today, go downtown and find a cop. Then start yelling at him, in front of other cops and civilians, and be sure to insult his mother. Then when he warns you to stop, keep going! And call him a racist!
Part of being an officer (I would hope) is learning when and how to extricate yourself from a situation that could reflect poorly on you or your department. Sure it's not the foremost thing in training, but it should be an aspect of officer training. Every other profession that deals with the public has this sort of training, including doctors, EMTs, firefighters, etc. Why wouldn't the officers simply leave Dr. Gates there to shout at their departing cruisers?
DW, can you chime in on this sort of thing?
he still probably should have just walked away. but, it does sound like Gates kind of lost his mind a bit here.
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my post wasn't directed at you. just adding to the discussion.
littletank
Footballguy
And I suppose the glove doesn't fit either?right.but, who do you believe? Gates says he was physically incapable of yelling loudly, yet the cop's account seems to indicate Gates was yelling so loud inside the house that he couldn't communicate with the other police on his radio or whatever.
the picture obviously doesn't really help solve that discrepancy.
I've read bits and pieces of the stories posted in this thread, and they seem to have contradictory details. Can someone who's followed this more closely answer these questions?
1. Did Gates show the officer his ID when asked? (Is this point undisputed?)
2. If Gates did show the officer his ID, did the cop then have any reason to suspect that Gates had committed a crime?
3. Disorderly conduct? That's undisputedly a BS charge, right? You're allowed to yell mean things at people; that's not illegal, even if the people you're yelling at are cops. You are a boor for doing so, but not a criminal. The chargers were dropped, of course. The cops knew all along that the charges would be dropped, right? So they charged Gates simply to harass him, and not to enforce the law?
If the answer to question number one is no, that changes things. The police may have had probable cause to detain him; and if he didn't cooperate, to arrest him on suspicion of breaking and entering.
But breaking and entering is the only crime that might have been committed. Disorderly conduct for yelling mean things is absurd.
1. Did Gates show the officer his ID when asked? (Is this point undisputed?)
2. If Gates did show the officer his ID, did the cop then have any reason to suspect that Gates had committed a crime?
3. Disorderly conduct? That's undisputedly a BS charge, right? You're allowed to yell mean things at people; that's not illegal, even if the people you're yelling at are cops. You are a boor for doing so, but not a criminal. The chargers were dropped, of course. The cops knew all along that the charges would be dropped, right? So they charged Gates simply to harass him, and not to enforce the law?
If the answer to question number one is no, that changes things. The police may have had probable cause to detain him; and if he didn't cooperate, to arrest him on suspicion of breaking and entering.
But breaking and entering is the only crime that might have been committed. Disorderly conduct for yelling mean things is absurd.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
If this happened, exactly as written, to one of my friends I would tell him "next time don't be such a d-bag".
I don't think there's any doubt Gates was yelling. This little conversation just started when I highlighted where Gates stated that he couldn't yell because he had bronchitis. Which leads me to believe that he's playing fast and loose with the truth when it comes to his version of the events at issue.
110dB
littletank
Footballguy
If I was Gates, I'd be happy that my sorry black ### wasn't tasered.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
When thing settle down Gates will realize the error of his way and probably offer up an apology to the Cambridge Police Dept.
Don't taze me, cracker!
Harry Manback
Footballguy
Pretty sure that the cops arrested him out of spite, but it was done legally. ie: they didn't have to arrest him, but had a legal right to do so. Should they have? No, probably not. Do I blame them? No, I don't. In hindsight was it stupid to arrest him? Probably. Should Obama have said he thought it was stupid? Probably not. Did Gates need to be put in his place? Yes, and he still does it looks like.
My own take.
My own take.
the police report says that Gates showed him a Harvard ID and that the officer believed Gates was indeed the resident. Doesn't sound like there was any other potential crime to be concerned about here.Report narrative says the cop was walking toward the sidewalk when Gates kept yelling to everyone that the cop was a racist. Since a large crowd had formed and Gates was insulting/threatening him, it sounds like the cop warned him and then arrested him for disorderly conduct.
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PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Yeah, I think it's definitely fair to question whether or not this was a valid arrest, but that's not really the point. The point is, valid or invalid, was the arrest made because Gates is black? Given how this situation obviously played out, there's ample evidence to suggest he was arrested because he was being an ####### to a cop, and no evidence at all to suggest it was racially motivated. Anyone saying it was the latter, including Gates himself, is just a race-card-mongerer, and a big part of the reason why the divide remains where it is today.
Thanks.
Harry Manback
Footballguy
This =
