Max Power
Footballguy
So where is the line? Yeah the police may have overrated here, but when its verbal, its really a judgement call...
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Housing While Black (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Fennis
- Start date
Max Power
Footballguy
maybe by percentage you might have a claim, but not total number...
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
In your opinion.All parties were out of line here, including the President. If you want cops out there using power unnecesary that's your opinion, personally I don't. If I had witnessed this cop walking away from this, I would have applauded him, that's the kind of police I want in my neighborhood. The ones that are capable of making good decisons.
Just from what I have seen personally in my place of business and my wife's over that last 3 months.Hispanic people demonting white people and replacing them with hispanic people blantenly. Also, a Hispanic owner telling my wife that she will not hold her Hispanic employees acountable for attnedence because "she has got to take care of her own".0Black people consistily insisting that white people do the harder work because they need to make up for past crimesAsian people instisting that white people are trying to take advantage of pricing, while they are willing to let fellow Asians walk with anything without question.Just what I have seen over the last 3 months; have pretty much seen the same pattern my enitre career.2 or 3 times a week I see a minority co manager or an emloyee of a co-manager, or sometimes even a miniorty boss say or do stuff, that I KNOW if a white person did, the white person would be looking for work.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I hope you're right. It just seems like bad news trying to be a cop when the President (implicity) and a well-respected man in the community (explicitly) are accusing you of racial profiling. At best, this is making his job more dangerous and more difficult to do effectively. At worst, this creates political pressure that puts his job in jeopardy.I hope I'm overreacting.
Adebisi
Footballguy
In before someone with a serious case of white guilt sarcastically calls you a "poor white man" (or something like that) for pointing this out.
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
I'm curious.Where do you live and where do you work, if you don't mind me asking? How have you been able to see so much at your wife's workplace?
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
I agree with you being accused of racial profling is bad news. That's why this cop is going to walk away unscathed. There are going to be very few that say the cop overreacted here (you are already witnessing it in this thread).Trust me, at the end of this, everyone but the cop is going to look bad and he added fuel to the fire, he's not a hero either.
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I work in Colorado. Most I have seen at mine. My wife's boss had parties we would go to and the boss would talk with her family, this I overheard. My wife actually just left, mostly do to the racisim she was experiecning. My company is much bigger and things are easy to see.
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Max Power
Footballguy
you talk'n Barak here?
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My opinion based upon the law.
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
I think Barak looks bad and I normally support the guy. You can say he abused the stage he was on to bring up an incident that did not deserve national attention. Perhaps he did incite some people that did not need to be incited, that is absolutely wrong and as the President, I want him to be smarter than that.The whole thing is terribly stupid and yes I am pissed that Barack added fuel to the fire too. We should not even be talking about this incident, it is unfortunate.
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
Of course. You are predictable.
What's the basis of your opinion?
lionel hutz
Footballguy
due u think NE of teh discrimination u c has nething 2 due with u not being able to compose a grammatically correct sentence n engrish?
Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
The situation at hand, that's where the grey area is.
Max Power
Footballguy
I'm pretty much on board with you. I could have cared less about this situation until Barak hit on it lastnight. I get that there are still race issues in america. However I also really feel like this was a situation where the race card was played without being warrented. And then the pres backs it up on NATIONAL TV. How am I supposed to back a guy who called the PD "stupid" based on only hearing black vs white? I just don't see any of this blowing back on Barak, although I hope it does and he learns something from it...
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The law is quite clear. I don't know what you think is gray about the situation.
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Jefferson the Caregiver
Rebel Without A Pause
We will see. Barack is certainly not coming out of this thread unscathed and he picked the wrong time to say it, a lot of people watching the television last night. If Rush and his posse, didn't cry wolf so many times, they could actually get some mainstream traction here. So it's going to take a more even minded media person to run with this story, but I believe someone probably will.
you are cool
pollardsvision
Footballguy
I think someone posted earlier that Chris Matthews was pretty rough on Obama for his comments.
Fennis
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Exactly. There's enough blame to go around on this one, and all parties involved acted poorly or at the minimum exercised poor judgment, including the President. His comments are pretty indefensible, and even if he does feel that this was a case of racism, he should have kept that opinion to himself. Hindsight is 20-20 and I'm sure he feels this way now. Too bad his foot is in his mouth on this one.
Neofight
Footballguy
No, don't arrest him because there was no cause. None whatsoever. End of story. The rest is just commentary on the state of things in this country. The officers actions obviously did not help. Did Obama's comments help either? No, not likely. But then I think that anyone here in this forum (white or black, though the outcome would likely have been much different if you are white) who was arrested in their own home, with the officer obviously showing his intent by coaxing you out of the home so he could make the arrest, would be pretty pissed if this happened to them. Maybe you wouldn't call the cop stupid or you would not have mouthed of to the arresting officer; but based on the posts I've read in this thread and others I'm fairly certain those up in arms over this issue would have more than a few choice words to say. And most of you aren't diminutive types using a cane to get around, one would surmise. I imagine this ups the ante. But here I go empathizing, and I do realize this is a difficult thing for some of you.I appreciate and respect police. I have two in my family who I am close with. But these actions were unnecessary and yes, stupid. Sometimes we lose our heads during confrontation. If this happened to you, how would you have reacted in either person's shoes? If you say you would have acted the same was as Crowley, back your case up with facts and the law. Otherwise pack up the feigned outrage for another day, por favor.
Neofight
Footballguy
I hear there's even a deal in the works for the government to supply them with arms. This could get good, no Stat?
Neofight
Footballguy
Chirst, er Cristo, you wouldn't use this argument in a court of law would you? "But imagine for a moment if you will, members of the jury, that Mr. Gates wasn't a well respected member of the community but a thriceconvictedviolentoffendergangbangingthug!"
How far are you willing to take these hypotheticals? To say nothing of your ridiculous assumptions. What type of law do you practice?
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Neofight
Footballguy
That vast majority of people should not be cops. It is fairly apparent that includes just about everyone posting in this thread.
Leave the big boy discussions to the big boys.
suspected
Footballguy
Gates wasn't arrested in his home, he was outside. The officer was not "obviously showing his intent by coaxing you out of the home so he make the arrest". He wanted Gates outside because it was the safe and proper request when investigating a burlary in progress. After being berated by Gates inside the house, the officer told him to calm down and later the officer walked away. Gates followed the officer outside and continued to berate him. After 2 additional warnings the officer arrested Gates outside.
Harry Manback
Footballguy
Lot's of morons in this thread. Lot's of people who seem to not be able to take a situation and not make it about race.
I can't wait til whites are the minority and I can blame all of my problems on racism.
I can't wait til whites are the minority and I can blame all of my problems on racism.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I do this already, with great results. Just the other day I tried to return an opened video game to Best Buy without a receipt. The guy at the customer service desk said he couldn't accept my return because it was against store policy. I started loudly complaining, asking if this is how a white man gets treated in America these days, and telling him that I'll follow his racist policies when his momma shows up. Once he could tell the crowd was on my side, that little punk gave in and gave me my return. Cha-ching!
Furious Styles
Footballguy
The cop was walking away from this incident and was preparing to leave the scene even after Gates was being a jerk. Multiple accounts support the cop that this is a fact. Gates wouldn't let it go, he kept on screaming at the officer from his porch. The officer showed his handcuffs and told him to quiet down or he would arrest him. I honestly don't see how the cop did anything wrong in this situation, in fact it seems he gave Gates a large amount of slack. This one is one Gates by a large margin.I've heard the cop speak on multiple occassions now and he comes across very sincere and level headed. Gates comments on the matter and says if the cop begs for forgiveness he might forgive him. Comes across as an arrogant elitist.I feel bad for the cop and his family. The President and Governor call him out as being stupid and alluded to racism and it seems by almost all accounts he did his job not just properly but well.
johnnycakes
Footballguy
Michelle McPhee is on 96.9FM WTKKK right now... she has followed police activities as a newspaper reporter for years. She'll have some good insight. Listen live.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
Today Show had an interview with the cop today. I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in between, but I'm on the cop's side. It sounds like it was pretty clear that Gates acted like an ####### on purpose to achieve his agenda. And the President is a complete idiot for commenting on it.Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
The other Black man on scene, the Driver, he was not arrested. Now what do you suppose differentiates his blackness from Gates' in the eyes of the Officer? Might it have been behavior?
I'm going to go back to it because it keeps getting glossed over. The officer is on scene, initially unsupported by other officers, of a potential felony in progress. His information is that there are two men involved. He has every reason to be cautious as he does not know whether they might be armed. The officer needs to locate each man and control them for officer safety until such time as he can identify each and have the scene secured.
Arriving on scene the officer sees visual confirmation consistent with his initial information. The front door is jammed and broken.
The officer sees Gates. He needs to isolate him from any objects he might grab and use as a weapon and identify him, all while being careful to watch for the other guy who, as far as the officer knows, may be an armed and dangerous accomplice. The officer does have the right to control the situation. He gets to ask the questions until possible danger or exigency is gone. Gates, ignorant, obnoxious, and with no appreciation for the officer's job decides he is going to verbally control the show.
I have worked in two jurisdictions. In each Gates' behavior would be a crime, a misdemeanor, but a crime. Failure to oby a lawful order or interference with an officer in the performance of his duty.
Had I been the Professor my response would have been along these lines.
:Hands raised and in plain sight as I was slowly stepping towards the porch where the officer wanted me: "I am Professor Gates. This is my home. I have just returned from oversees. My door has been broken but you will find my I.D. in my back pocket and My key to the back door on the kitchen table next to my flight bag. You will also see my picture taken with the President, on the wall of the den. Would you like me to reach for my wallet to show you my I.D. or will you?"
The situation would have been fine in seconds adn he would have been obeying the order. Once the initial uncertainty had passed and the scene been stabilized the professor, if he felt he neededto comment on the officer's behavior could have then very calmly and easily obtained the officer's information.
Officers where I work always get the name and badge number grief from #######s. All those jerks need to do is calm down enough to read as the officers wear name tages and badges with their number clearly displayed. I bet the Officer had identifying information right there on his uniform but the harvard professor , a literate man, was not really interested in the info, he was interested in doing what he thought would put him in controll of the situation. He was hoping to bring the officer up short. He thought that demand was a threat to the officer. Inherent in the snotty demand is the supposition that the officer is in the wrong and will be reported to his superiors for discipline.
Again, I do not think it was necessary to cuff the professor. There was no need for a custodial arrest. The professor could have been served a summons and released on scene. The officer could even have ignored the minor technical violation of the law (I am presuming their is an appropriate charge in Mass) I would have preferred he did so. The officer, however, let the situation control him some and that was wrong and his mistake. he placed a tired, elderly man in cuffs and dragged him to the station and, if other posters here have produced the correct charge and statutory language, improperly charged the professor. That's bad police work in the end after doing things right throughout most of the encounter.
Had I been the cop I would have announced that 'We have a report of a break in. I need to identify everyone in the house and secure the scene. We need your cooperation if you are the owner of the home. Step on to the porch where I can see you better and can identify you. This will only take a minute and I appreciate your cooperation." A little respect and explanation up front may have gone a long ways to preventing the situation.
I'm going to go back to it because it keeps getting glossed over. The officer is on scene, initially unsupported by other officers, of a potential felony in progress. His information is that there are two men involved. He has every reason to be cautious as he does not know whether they might be armed. The officer needs to locate each man and control them for officer safety until such time as he can identify each and have the scene secured.
Arriving on scene the officer sees visual confirmation consistent with his initial information. The front door is jammed and broken.
The officer sees Gates. He needs to isolate him from any objects he might grab and use as a weapon and identify him, all while being careful to watch for the other guy who, as far as the officer knows, may be an armed and dangerous accomplice. The officer does have the right to control the situation. He gets to ask the questions until possible danger or exigency is gone. Gates, ignorant, obnoxious, and with no appreciation for the officer's job decides he is going to verbally control the show.
I have worked in two jurisdictions. In each Gates' behavior would be a crime, a misdemeanor, but a crime. Failure to oby a lawful order or interference with an officer in the performance of his duty.
Had I been the Professor my response would have been along these lines.
:Hands raised and in plain sight as I was slowly stepping towards the porch where the officer wanted me: "I am Professor Gates. This is my home. I have just returned from oversees. My door has been broken but you will find my I.D. in my back pocket and My key to the back door on the kitchen table next to my flight bag. You will also see my picture taken with the President, on the wall of the den. Would you like me to reach for my wallet to show you my I.D. or will you?"
The situation would have been fine in seconds adn he would have been obeying the order. Once the initial uncertainty had passed and the scene been stabilized the professor, if he felt he neededto comment on the officer's behavior could have then very calmly and easily obtained the officer's information.
Officers where I work always get the name and badge number grief from #######s. All those jerks need to do is calm down enough to read as the officers wear name tages and badges with their number clearly displayed. I bet the Officer had identifying information right there on his uniform but the harvard professor , a literate man, was not really interested in the info, he was interested in doing what he thought would put him in controll of the situation. He was hoping to bring the officer up short. He thought that demand was a threat to the officer. Inherent in the snotty demand is the supposition that the officer is in the wrong and will be reported to his superiors for discipline.
Again, I do not think it was necessary to cuff the professor. There was no need for a custodial arrest. The professor could have been served a summons and released on scene. The officer could even have ignored the minor technical violation of the law (I am presuming their is an appropriate charge in Mass) I would have preferred he did so. The officer, however, let the situation control him some and that was wrong and his mistake. he placed a tired, elderly man in cuffs and dragged him to the station and, if other posters here have produced the correct charge and statutory language, improperly charged the professor. That's bad police work in the end after doing things right throughout most of the encounter.
Had I been the cop I would have announced that 'We have a report of a break in. I need to identify everyone in the house and secure the scene. We need your cooperation if you are the owner of the home. Step on to the porch where I can see you better and can identify you. This will only take a minute and I appreciate your cooperation." A little respect and explanation up front may have gone a long ways to preventing the situation.
Harry Manback
Footballguy
I need to return a movie today at FYE without a receipt, I know they will try and give me store credit, but I am going to demand cash! Can't keep the white man down!!!
HellToupee
Footballguy
8 break-ins in the neighborhood in the last month including at this address
neighbor calls about possible BI
police respond & you give them crap???
why not just show ID upon request in this circumstance?
Bill Cosby is spot on about this issue
neighbor calls about possible BI
police respond & you give them crap???
why not just show ID upon request in this circumstance?
Bill Cosby is spot on about this issue
HellToupee
Footballguy
it was very classy of Gates to make dispariging remarks about the white police officers mother
timschochet
Footballguy
There are also a lot of people who, whenever a Black/White potential racial situation surfaces, immediately take the side of the white guy.
djmich
Footballguy
Nothing like yo momma jokes from a black Harvard professor to help break down racial stereotypes.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
I read now that the Driver had already left the scene by the time the officer arrived. He was going to have a tough time, therefore, locating the second suspect.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
And vice-versa
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
And of course the obverse is also true. The question is do these folks have the capacity to adjust their preconcieved conclusions to the evidence that is developed. Very few, if any, are capable of being wholly nuetral going into a situation.
HellToupee
Footballguy
I was shocked Obama commented without knowing all the factsits fortunate the Cambridge PO , who btw teaches their diversity training, has a clean record or he'd be chum
it sounds like he had left already. He was a driver for a car service that brought Gates from the airport to his house. I don't know how quickly the cop responded but I wouldn't imagine the driver would hang out for very long after helping with the door issue.
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