Judge Smails
Footballguy
Ridiculous - I mean, how many chances/excuses does one guy get? Forget the fluke play - they were being shut out for 59 minutes against the Denver Broncos at home. Joke.
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How does Marvin Lewis still have a head coaching job in the NFL? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Judge Smails
- Start date
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
He has really screwed up that offense....sad to see that
lod01
Footballguy
It is amazing.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
He has actually vastly improved the defense over the last 2 years.
Verbal Kint
Footballguy
The O-coordinator Bratkowski has to go. That said, its Marvin's job to keep the D's head in the game against that last drive. Knock the ball down. You learn that in the 5th grade.
Andy Herron
Footballguy
Because Mike Brown is a selfish, money grubbing idiot with no real intentions of putting together a formidable team that can compete in the NFL.
notdarkyet
Footballguy
This. I have no clue how Brat has not been fired. I think Marvin is practically worthless, but Brat is in control of that offense, and his plan/play calling is plain awful.
And This. The Bengals need some sort of major disaster to happen where all of that family is there and wipe them all out before they will be relevant again. Mikey is the worst owner in the league, and yes, I know Al Davis is still alive.
SSOG
Moderator
In Marvin's defense, Cincinnati had 11 losing seasons in 12 years before Lewis showed up (including averaging fewer than 4 wins a year for the 5 years immediately prior to his arrival). After he came, they had 8+ wins for four straight seasons, then 7 wins in the fifth. For everything else about him, that's an amazing accomplishment that deserves recognition.
With that said, I think he's taken the Bengals as far as he can, and it's time to bring in some new blood. Hopefully the next coach can capitalize on the improved talent and culture that resulted from Lewis's tenure.
With that said, I think he's taken the Bengals as far as he can, and it's time to bring in some new blood. Hopefully the next coach can capitalize on the improved talent and culture that resulted from Lewis's tenure.
knowledge dropper
Footballguy
The defensive improvement started when Zimmer took over the defense.
Give him a break, that was a fluke play and they should be 1-0. the offense did not score but moved the ball well today. Bad play calling at times, but Marvin is the right man for the job.
Northbound Train
Footballguy
The Rooney Rule ...end of story 
SSOG
Moderator
I'm not a knee-jerk guy. The reason Marvin Lewis needs to go isn't because they lost today... it's because they've only had more than 8 wins once in 6 years, they've been going backwards the past couple of years, his team has been a mess throughout his entire tenure, and there hasn't been much reason to assume things are going to get better in a hurry.Marvin Lewis isn't the kind of coach whose resume is so strong that he should be above blame. At some point you have to hold him accountable for the fact that the Bengals have never really threatened to rise above anything more than the most basic levels of relevancy. I think it's time for the Bengals to appreciate the fact that he brought them out of the darkness, but they need to look elsewhere for a coach to take them to the promised land.
SSOG
Moderator
Come on, now. The Rooney Rule only deals with hiring and has nothing to do with firing. In fact, it doesn't even have anything to do with hiring- it just mandates that teams INTERVIEW a minority candidate. If you're trying to say that Marvin Lewis's continued employment is racially motivated, then I think you're going to find yourself in a small minority on that one.The Rooney Rule ...end of story
Bills_Fan11
Footballguy
No idea how this guy has a job. He ought to be donating most of his paycheck to Carson Palmer.
He's also one of the few coaches that is in the conversation for the Brad Childress award of making the worst gameday decisions.
He's also one of the few coaches that is in the conversation for the Brad Childress award of making the worst gameday decisions.
Jimmy James
Footballguy
Don't forget that the owners approved the rule in 2003. Lewis was hired in 2003 -- on JANUARY 14. Unless the owners had some sort of emergency meeting (they don't typically meet the first two weeks of the new year), the rule post-dates Lewis being hired.Come on, now. The Rooney Rule only deals with hiring and has nothing to do with firing. In fact, it doesn't even have anything to do with hiring- it just mandates that teams INTERVIEW a minority candidate. If you're trying to say that Marvin Lewis's continued employment is racially motivated, then I think you're going to find yourself in a small minority on that one.The Rooney Rule ...end of story
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
Plus Crennel was hired and fired since then.Don't forget that the owners approved the rule in 2003. Lewis was hired in 2003 -- on JANUARY 14. Unless the owners had some sort of emergency meeting (they don't typically meet the first two weeks of the new year), the rule post-dates Lewis being hired.Come on, now. The Rooney Rule only deals with hiring and has nothing to do with firing. In fact, it doesn't even have anything to do with hiring- it just mandates that teams INTERVIEW a minority candidate. If you're trying to say that Marvin Lewis's continued employment is racially motivated, then I think you're going to find yourself in a small minority on that one.The Rooney Rule ...end of story
coolnerd
Footballguy
The defender barely got his hand on the ball. He was in no position to control where it went. Otherwise, the only thing that marks Marvin's time is a general sense of mediocrity and the numerous knuckleheads constantly dotting the roster.
Verbal Kint
Footballguy
Hall said in the post-game interview that he should have knocked it down.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Please don't think I posted this because of the fluke play at the end. I thought the same the whole second half, and even after they finally scored late in the 4th. Dismal, dismal performance. Team was not prepared, played with no emotion, should have shellacked the Broncos at home. This team won't win 4 games.
SSOG
Moderator
Lots of players say they should have done lots of things after a loss. Doesn't mean they could actually do it. I've been watching the replay a zillion times (mostly for that Gus Johnson call. OH GOD! STOKLEY!!! DOWN THE SIDELINES@!!!!!!#!@#!@!!#!$%*&!@#&*!!*!@*!@!), and I've noticed two things. First off, there is no way Hall could have knocked that pass down. He got his hand on the pass at the very peak of his jump and with his arm stretched at full extension. Despite this, he could only make contact with the underside of the ball. There was no physical way for him to knock that down. His two choices were to either tip it or to not make contact, in which case tipping is probably the right move (especially because the WR behind him was Brandon Marshall, the guy most likely to take it to the house if he could get the ball in his hands). Second, the real goat here should be Roy Williams (surprise, surprise, surprise). He left his "last line of defense" role to level Brandon Marshall. If he hadn't gone after Marshall, he could have easily tackled Stokley after he got the ball. If he hadn't left his feet to take out Marshall, he probably could have chased Stokley down from behind (let's face it, Brandon Stokley's not exactly the swiftest player on the field, here).I know, I know... Roy Williams blowing coverage responsibility to go for an unnecessary hit? Who on earth could have seen this one coming?
seahawk 17
Footballguy
BusterTBronco
Footballguy
"Should have" and "could have" are two different things. I agree with coolnerd. There is no way that Hall could have knocked it down even if he had wanted to. He jumped as high as he could and barely got his hand on the ball. The guys that really screwed up on that play were the other defenders who went after Brandon Marshall instead of defending the field between the ball and the end zone.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Kind of reminds me of Tony Dungy in Tampa. He brought them out of mediocrity, but couldn't get them over the hump in January.
SSOG
Moderator
Not the slightest bit comparable, other than the fact that both coaches were there for 6 years.Tony Dungy had a 56.3% winning percentage. Marvin Lewis has a 48.4% winning percentage. Tony Dungy had four playoff appearances, including 3 straight. Marvin Lewis has 1 playoff appearance. Tony Dungy had 2 playoff wins and a berth in the conference championship game. Marvin Lewis has 0 playoff wins. Tony Dungy led a team that was still consistently good when he got fired (averaged 10 wins over his last 3 seasons). Marvin Lewis coaches a team that's starting to circle the drain (8 wins, then 7 wins, then 4 wins his last three seasons). Tony Dungy ran a squeaky clean franchise that the city of Tampa was incredibly proud of. Marvin Lewis runs a scandal-ridden franchise that the city of Cincinnati considers an embarrassment. Firing Dungy was a stupid move for Tampa (I don't think there's any question he's a better coach than Gruden, and he proved he's obviously capable of "winning the big one" after all). Firing Marvin Lewis is the right move for the Bengals right now.
The_U
Footballguy
...And MARVIN's the idiot?
Kirby
Footballguy
x2 English? Anyway... lot of over reaction in here. Play calling wasn't great but if you don't have six wide open drops... at least half that would have been 1st downs, this thread doesn't exist....And MARVIN's the idiot?
SSOG
Moderator
This specific thread might not exist, but everyone who thinks Lewis should be fired now would still probably think Lewis should be fired, just without the platform to state their opinions. The fact that Lewis needs to move on has nothing to do with how Cincy did this week and everything to do with how Cincy has been stuck in neutral or reverse for the last 3 seasons after initially showing positive progress.Kirby said:x2 English? Anyway... lot of over reaction in here. Play calling wasn't great but if you don't have six wide open drops... at least half that would have been 1st downs, this thread doesn't exist.The_U said:...And MARVIN's the idiot?mjd2 said:
Verbal Kint
Footballguy
First, After further review, I'll give Leon a pass on the defense. It was all he could do to tip the ball. I place a little blame on Roy and Crocker for being over aggressive, but really, if they hadn't swarmed on Marshall, everyone would be on them for not attacking enough. Really, the only criticism on the defense on that play as that no one other than Dhani even tried to get back in the play and stop Stokley.
Second. There's been much debate about whether the coaches should be accountable for the mistakes of the players. After I've calmed down from the initial shock of the game, I think they had a solid game plan on offense. "take what the defense gives you" You always here that, and for the most part the Bengals did that. It was only a bunch of mistakes that kept them from blowing this game wide open. Was it conservative? Yes. But smart. So it really boils down to lapses on execution. Coles was horrible. Toomany costly penalties. Missed protection that hamstrung the entire series. I contend that this is still, in some large part, on the coaches. They are responsible for getting their players mentally ready to play. Get the players focused on not making these mistakes. That's what world class organizations do. These are the same mistakes the Bengals made in the preseason. It wasn't a surprise. They had a chance to address it and they didn't. They players need to execute better. The coaches need to get them there.
Second. There's been much debate about whether the coaches should be accountable for the mistakes of the players. After I've calmed down from the initial shock of the game, I think they had a solid game plan on offense. "take what the defense gives you" You always here that, and for the most part the Bengals did that. It was only a bunch of mistakes that kept them from blowing this game wide open. Was it conservative? Yes. But smart. So it really boils down to lapses on execution. Coles was horrible. Toomany costly penalties. Missed protection that hamstrung the entire series. I contend that this is still, in some large part, on the coaches. They are responsible for getting their players mentally ready to play. Get the players focused on not making these mistakes. That's what world class organizations do. These are the same mistakes the Bengals made in the preseason. It wasn't a surprise. They had a chance to address it and they didn't. They players need to execute better. The coaches need to get them there.
PennState-JD
Footballguy
Marvin made the time out call with 48 seconds to go when the Bengals had a 1st and goal at the one yard line with 3 time outs. Why? With 4 shots at one yard and 3 time outs, he should have run the clock down and the Broncos wouldn't have had a chance.
Another thing -- when the Bengals received the kick off after Stokely's score, they had 10 men on the field. Is this a team that is prepared? I see several failures, Mike Brown being first and foremost. But Marvin is also bad at his job.
Another thing -- when the Bengals received the kick off after Stokely's score, they had 10 men on the field. Is this a team that is prepared? I see several failures, Mike Brown being first and foremost. But Marvin is also bad at his job.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
lewis should be fired bc he is the worst game day coach in the league. hes just unreal bad.
from memory over the years:
1. 4th and 1 from the 3, he has palmer and the bengals line up and do the hard count to try to incite offseason. d doesnt jump and palmer burns a timeout and they kick. wtf?!?!??!?! is the difference between a 20 and 25 yarder worth a to? hell no. and they shoulda gone for it anyway.
2. bengals score a td with about 2:30 left to go up by 4 pts. he elects to go for 2. makes no sense bc there is a ton of time left and your d sucks and obv the seahawks score a td and now there is about 1:20 left and they are driving to tie instead of win. dumb.
3. on the road vs the giants they have 4th from the one to win. he kicks a fg for the tie. theres simply no way the bengals have better chance to win in ot than to score from the 1.
4. 45s left vs the steelers and he burns a timeout to ice the kicker. cmon, that to is hugely important bc you have plenty of time to drive down the field for a go ahead fg.
5. last year vs the steelers they punted at the end of the game down by 2 scores with like 3min left. crap like that all the time.
from memory over the years:
1. 4th and 1 from the 3, he has palmer and the bengals line up and do the hard count to try to incite offseason. d doesnt jump and palmer burns a timeout and they kick. wtf?!?!??!?! is the difference between a 20 and 25 yarder worth a to? hell no. and they shoulda gone for it anyway.
2. bengals score a td with about 2:30 left to go up by 4 pts. he elects to go for 2. makes no sense bc there is a ton of time left and your d sucks and obv the seahawks score a td and now there is about 1:20 left and they are driving to tie instead of win. dumb.
3. on the road vs the giants they have 4th from the one to win. he kicks a fg for the tie. theres simply no way the bengals have better chance to win in ot than to score from the 1.
4. 45s left vs the steelers and he burns a timeout to ice the kicker. cmon, that to is hugely important bc you have plenty of time to drive down the field for a go ahead fg.
5. last year vs the steelers they punted at the end of the game down by 2 scores with like 3min left. crap like that all the time.
QuizGuy66
Footballguy
Many thoughts.
Hall did the best he could on the play - he's saying the right thing and may feel he could've knocked it down but as others have stated - there's just no way.
As to the play of Crocker and Williams - they went after Marshall because, well the play was to Marshall - that's where the ball was going. I have to see if I can find a good replay of the play to see 1) where they were when the ball was released and 2) if they reacted separately. These thoughts notwithstanding, I tend to agree with the assessment of Roy on the play.
As for Marvin, it's a front office issue. I actually think that without Mikey running the show, that Marvin might end up being fine. Brat's play calls are ridiculous though. Way too predictable.
The biggest problem is that it's the Brown family business. They literally have nothing else to do - no other enterprises to run. So they have the time to get way too much control in the situation and also have essentially their whole personal fortune tied up in the team. The spectre of 30 years of Katie running the show after Mike's no longer with us is what's really frightening to me.
-QG
Hall did the best he could on the play - he's saying the right thing and may feel he could've knocked it down but as others have stated - there's just no way.
As to the play of Crocker and Williams - they went after Marshall because, well the play was to Marshall - that's where the ball was going. I have to see if I can find a good replay of the play to see 1) where they were when the ball was released and 2) if they reacted separately. These thoughts notwithstanding, I tend to agree with the assessment of Roy on the play.
As for Marvin, it's a front office issue. I actually think that without Mikey running the show, that Marvin might end up being fine. Brat's play calls are ridiculous though. Way too predictable.
The biggest problem is that it's the Brown family business. They literally have nothing else to do - no other enterprises to run. So they have the time to get way too much control in the situation and also have essentially their whole personal fortune tied up in the team. The spectre of 30 years of Katie running the show after Mike's no longer with us is what's really frightening to me.
-QG
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Love the Moneyball comparisonGordonGekko said:
r0llin_game
Footballguy
How is Roy starting over Ndukwe anyways? When I saw Cincy play last year, Ndukwe looked pretty solid.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I would agree that Dungy was a better coach than Gruden, but he couldn't get the Bucs over the hump. In fact, the Bucs basically laid down in both playoff losses in '00 and '01, which didn't make Dungy look good. In the week leading up to the loss to the Eagles following the '01 season, all we heard was that the Bucs needed to play well to save Dungy's job, and they basically laid down and got pummeled. Sometimes, a change is just needed, and that was certainly true in Tampa Bay at the beginning of '02.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Class Dismissed
Footballguy
Didn't the league have a big hand in getting Lewis hired in Cincinnati?
As I recall the league was embarassed that Lewis had been passed over for many vacancies, and the media was applying some serious heat, I believe it was Tags who met with Mike Brown to convince him to hire Lewis.
If my memory is correct, and the league did apply a heavy hand, this situation would be akin to General Motors telling the Government that they can leave now. It's just not that easy.
As I recall the league was embarassed that Lewis had been passed over for many vacancies, and the media was applying some serious heat, I believe it was Tags who met with Mike Brown to convince him to hire Lewis.
If my memory is correct, and the league did apply a heavy hand, this situation would be akin to General Motors telling the Government that they can leave now. It's just not that easy.
tbf, lewis is the best coach the bengals have had since wyche. and mike brown gave dave shula 5 yrs despite a 19 and 52 record. coslett was 21 and 39 and lebeau was 12 and 33. theres no semi consiracy or league underworkings here. mike brown does not fire coaches quickly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cinci...ls_head_coaches
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Cinci...ls_head_coaches
cheese
Footballguy
First of all, I actually believe the fluke play was Ndukwe's fault more than anyone else. They were both on the field at the time and Roy was the safety trying to make a play on the ball/receiver. Ndukwe was playing cover 2 on the other side of the field and should have rotated back when the ball was launched to the other side. He should have been able to run him down if he had been in position.Also, Roy Williams looks solid back in Zimmers defense and I think he will have a standout season.
well this is the biggest bengals win in 3 years but i still gotta give a huge wtf to marvin lewis. 45s left and the bengals complete a first down to the steeler 15 and the run up and spike the ball. they had 2 time outs and they spiked the ball?
i wonder how much they reduced their win expectation with that play. why doesnt this team just shell out like 25k and hire some 13 year old madden fiend to show them how to use proper clock management. its infuriating.
i wonder how much they reduced their win expectation with that play. why doesnt this team just shell out like 25k and hire some 13 year old madden fiend to show them how to use proper clock management. its infuriating.
KnowledgeReignsSupreme
Footballguy
I hope this turns out like the Tom Coughlin thread the year the Giants won the Super Bowl.
Verbal Kint
Footballguy
Me too.
perry147
Footballguy
Or the Jeff Fisher thread I recall awhile back.
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