Dynasty Rankings (4 Viewers)

[thriftyrocker]

So if your RB1 or RB2 was going to lose his burst for 10 weeks while his two talented backups handled more of the workload, that wouldn't bother you?

I am not arguing that you have him too low or too high. Or that his value isn't deservedly dropping. But more than there is a potential light at the end of the tunnel that isn't there with all the other guys with red numbers as well as others like Jacobs, Ward, Grant, etc. that aren't red.That is, I don't think this is a time to sell him. The floor is not falling away. The worst case scenario for him is he turns into Thomas Jones - someone fantasy people stay away from due to stigma but that NFL teams continue to want to sign, start, and let him rack up points. The best case scenario is he is healthy again in 10 weeks and he starts chugging like he was Week 1 and 2.The only league I have Barber, I have 3 other guys ahead of him in your rankings, so as a RB4 I am not sweating the 10 weeks. If he was my RB1/2 and I had Choice, Bradshaw, Westbrook, TJones, or any number of lower tier guys who should fill in, I wouldn't be sweating it.

 

[EBF]

The time to sell Barber was about 2 years ago. The Cowboys never should have paid him. He's a solid back, but he doesn't bring anything special to the table.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

The time to sell Barber was about 2 years ago. The Cowboys never should have paid him. He's a solid back, but he doesn't bring anything special to the table.

I don't know how I missed a 90 page thread til now - other than the fact that I'm an idiot - but you've got some good stuff going on here, F&L.In regards to Barber, I just don't understand the Cowboys' thinking. They cut him a huge check then turn around and draft Jones/Choice. Now, as a Ravens fan, I'm pretty familiar with an NFL team drafting BPA but I doubt very seriously that Ozzie will be drafting QB or RB on the first day as Jerrah did with Felix. I like Barber as a runner, but it's really starting to look like he just can't stay on the field.

 

[corpcow]

The time to sell Barber was about 2 years ago. The Cowboys never should have paid him. He's a solid back, but he doesn't bring anything special to the table.

To me, Barber's running style works best when he's NOT the "primary" ballcarrier. He runs hard, but he takes a beating, and more importantly when he carries the ball a lot he doesn't have the same explosion particularly when he's late in the game. I mean, look at the numbers he had when J.Jones was the primary guy between the 20s.... In that respect, he's different than many of those other "big" backs that seem to be better at the end of the game when the defense is worn down (think Lynch, Rudi Johnson, etc). I think part of the problem was that people were looking at his stats in a "part-time" role and extrapolating out what that would mean if he carried a "full" load... the problem is that his style just doesn't seem to translate to that full load. Watching Jacobs - who I will comment on separately - I think there may be something similar going on there. He just does not seem to have the same pop and explosion this year.

 

[kremenull]

a RB at the cliff, like I do with BJacobs

Can we get some more thoughts on Jacobs? A lot of people are really down on him, and I think there is a fair amount of overreacting going on.

I agree. I've never been huge on the guy because he doesn't catch passes and appears a bit injury-prone, but there's way too much over-reaction going on.

Jacobs will be done in 2 yrs or less.......Tall, straight-line punishing runners (ala Eddie George, C.Okoye types) can sometimes come in and exit rather quickly...Although Eddie G had a nice run, I think he is the exception rather than the rule with guys of this stature and style.....He simply takes (and gives) too many big hits.......Right now and going forward, Bradshaw >>>> Jacobs....not even close. Bradshaw is very close to becoming an NFL star, a "poor man's" MJD, but may in fact lose the "poor man's" label shortly and just become an MJD clone.....

 

[benm3218]

a RB at the cliff, like I do with BJacobs

Can we get some more thoughts on Jacobs? A lot of people are really down on him, and I think there is a fair amount of overreacting going on.

I agree. I've never been huge on the guy because he doesn't catch passes and appears a bit injury-prone, but there's way too much over-reaction going on.

Jacobs will be done in 2 yrs or less.......Tall, straight-line punishing runners (ala Eddie George, C.Okoye types) can sometimes come in and exit rather quickly...Although Eddie G had a nice run, I think he is the exception rather than the rule with guys of this stature and style.....He simply takes (and gives) too many big hits.......Right now and going forward, Bradshaw >>>> Jacobs....not even close. Bradshaw is very close to becoming an NFL star, a "poor man's" MJD, but may in fact lose the "poor man's" label shortly and just become an MJD clone.....

Maybe when he gets legs about 3 times more powerful than he currently has bro. haha

 

[Uruk-Hai]

I'm loath to ask an ACF question here since I just showed up and would rather not be banned from the thread, but I noticed that F&L hasn't updated the WR rankings yet, we have many knowledgeable dynasty posters here, and I'm feeling rebellious tonight so here goes.......

Zealots league (53 man IDP). I'm at 4-1 & feel like I need an upgrade at WR. I've been offered Eddie Royal for my '10 1st round rookie pick. This owner also has Desean Jackson & Harvin, though he's not keen on trading either (he's rebuilding). Here are my WRs:

Bruce, Isaac SFO WR 15.90 6 FA

Cotchery, Jerricho NYJ WR (Q) 43.43 9 FA

Crayton, Patrick DAL WR 36.20 6 FA

Cribbs, Josh CLE WR 40.56 9 FA

Davis, Andre' HOU WR 9.18 10 FA

Edwards, Braylon NYJ WR 27.30 9 FA

Gaffney, Jabar DEN WR 22.50 7 FA

Henderson, Devery NOS WR 30.50 5 FA

Henry, Chris CIN WR 23.00 8 FA

Moss, Sinorice NYG WR 14.23 10 FA

Robiskie, Brian CLE WR ® 1.00 9 2.03

Smith, Steve NYG WR 72.10 10 FA

Tate, Brandon NEP WR ® (O) - 8 2.06

Wallace, Mike PIT WR ® 31.60 8 5.04

Washington, Nate TEN WR 37.60 7 FA

Williams, Demetrius BAL WR 0.00 7 FA

I've been playing mix-and-match thus far, with Smith the only constant along with some combo of Cotchery/Crayton/Cribbs/Edwards/Henry/Washington for the other 2 or 3 spots each week. Royal had done squat until this past week and I still don't trust Orton. What are your thoughts on ER going forward? And is a 1st round rookie pick fair? And lastly, would you take him or Desean if given the choice?

 

[kremenull]

a RB at the cliff, like I do with BJacobs

Can we get some more thoughts on Jacobs? A lot of people are really down on him, and I think there is a fair amount of overreacting going on.

I agree. I've never been huge on the guy because he doesn't catch passes and appears a bit injury-prone, but there's way too much over-reaction going on.

Jacobs will be done in 2 yrs or less.......Tall, straight-line punishing runners (ala Eddie George, C.Okoye types) can sometimes come in and exit rather quickly...Although Eddie G had a nice run, I think he is the exception rather than the rule with guys of this stature and style.....He simply takes (and gives) too many big hits.......Right now and going forward, Bradshaw >>>> Jacobs....not even close. Bradshaw is very close to becoming an NFL star, a "poor man's" MJD, but may in fact lose the "poor man's" label shortly and just become an MJD clone.....

Maybe when he gets legs about 3 times more powerful than he currently has bro. haha

Well, Bradshaw is quite powerful and probably moreso than many think.....he's a very good goal line RB, and is starting to put it all together. Yeah, he will probably not be quite as good as MJD, but he will be similar in running style for a smaller RB and the fantasy production could get fairly close between the two if Bradshaw gets the primary job. Even given a role similarly as MJD had with Freddy T, Bradshaw could produce close to the first couple of MJD years as well. Jus sayin'......

 

[mulliganman]

Why is Cedric Benson ranked so low (#23 running back in tier 4)? Benson has looked very good this season and is not likely to be replaced any time soon.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Why is Cedric Benson ranked so low (#23 running back in tier 4)? Benson has looked very good this season and is not likely to be replaced any time soon.

Are you familiar with his history? He doesn't exactly scream "stable value."

 

[renesauz]

I'm loath to ask an ACF question here since I just showed up and would rather not be banned from the thread, but I noticed that F&L hasn't updated the WR rankings yet, we have many knowledgeable dynasty posters here, and I'm feeling rebellious tonight so here goes.......Zealots league (53 man IDP). I'm at 4-1 & feel like I need an upgrade at WR. I've been offered Eddie Royal for my '10 1st round rookie pick. This owner also has Desean Jackson & Harvin, though he's not keen on trading either (he's rebuilding). Here are my WRs:Bruce, Isaac SFO WR 15.90 6 FA Cotchery, Jerricho NYJ WR (Q) 43.43 9 FA Crayton, Patrick DAL WR 36.20 6 FA Cribbs, Josh CLE WR 40.56 9 FA Davis, Andre' HOU WR 9.18 10 FA Edwards, Braylon NYJ WR 27.30 9 FA Gaffney, Jabar DEN WR 22.50 7 FA Henderson, Devery NOS WR 30.50 5 FA Henry, Chris CIN WR 23.00 8 FA Moss, Sinorice NYG WR 14.23 10 FA Robiskie, Brian CLE WR ® 1.00 9 2.03 Smith, Steve NYG WR 72.10 10 FA Tate, Brandon NEP WR ® (O) - 8 2.06 Wallace, Mike PIT WR ® 31.60 8 5.04 Washington, Nate TEN WR 37.60 7 FA Williams, Demetrius BAL WR 0.00 7 FA I've been playing mix-and-match thus far, with Smith the only constant along with some combo of Cotchery/Crayton/Cribbs/Edwards/Henry/Washington for the other 2 or 3 spots each week. Royal had done squat until this past week and I still don't trust Orton. What are your thoughts on ER going forward? And is a 1st round rookie pick fair? And lastly, would you take him or Desean if given the choice?

Seems like a no-brainer to me, even if you didnt need his services. A LATE first round pick is always worth a young up and coming potential stud. Royal has already shown more then most late first round picks ever will, and is immediately useful. Run, don't walk, to the "accept" button.ETA: Desean would certainly be higher on my list, but it's hard to imagine any owner being that criminally stupid to trade Desean for a late first.

 

[jdoggydogg]

I'm loath to ask an ACF question here since I just showed up and would rather not be banned from the thread, but I noticed that F&L hasn't updated the WR rankings yet, we have many knowledgeable dynasty posters here, and I'm feeling rebellious tonight so here goes.......Zealots league (53 man IDP). I'm at 4-1 & feel like I need an upgrade at WR. I've been offered Eddie Royal for my '10 1st round rookie pick. This owner also has Desean Jackson & Harvin, though he's not keen on trading either (he's rebuilding). Here are my WRs:Bruce, Isaac SFO WR 15.90 6 FA Cotchery, Jerricho NYJ WR (Q) 43.43 9 FA Crayton, Patrick DAL WR 36.20 6 FA Cribbs, Josh CLE WR 40.56 9 FA Davis, Andre' HOU WR 9.18 10 FA Edwards, Braylon NYJ WR 27.30 9 FA Gaffney, Jabar DEN WR 22.50 7 FA Henderson, Devery NOS WR 30.50 5 FA Henry, Chris CIN WR 23.00 8 FA Moss, Sinorice NYG WR 14.23 10 FA Robiskie, Brian CLE WR ® 1.00 9 2.03 Smith, Steve NYG WR 72.10 10 FA Tate, Brandon NEP WR ® (O) - 8 2.06 Wallace, Mike PIT WR ® 31.60 8 5.04 Washington, Nate TEN WR 37.60 7 FA Williams, Demetrius BAL WR 0.00 7 FA I've been playing mix-and-match thus far, with Smith the only constant along with some combo of Cotchery/Crayton/Cribbs/Edwards/Henry/Washington for the other 2 or 3 spots each week. Royal had done squat until this past week and I still don't trust Orton. What are your thoughts on ER going forward? And is a 1st round rookie pick fair? And lastly, would you take him or Desean if given the choice?

Seems like a no-brainer to me, even if you didnt need his services. A LATE first round pick is always worth a young up and coming potential stud. Royal has already shown more then most late first round picks ever will, and is immediately useful. Run, don't walk, to the "accept" button.

Concur. I'd make that trade.

 

[BespokeJort]

IIRC, when Choice was playing last year coincided with the cowboys' collapse late in the season. Not saying he's responsible, but again this year--barber is hampered, Choice is putting up just as good stats, but suddenly (well not that suddenly, but problems that could be blamed on poor coaching or Romo being a choke artist seem to have extended to the rest of the team) the cowboys are playing like crap.

Choice puts up the same numbers, and it's a small sample size, but Choice putting up the same stats has not translated to the team's continued success. I dunno if he's worse in pass protection (likely as barber is all-league in pass pro for an RB) or what the deal is, but I'd have to think they're looking at that when they decide if barber is replaceable or not.

EDIT: full disclosure: I am a barber owner and don't have choice or f. jones in any leagues. am i wrong here?

Yes. It's nonsensical to believe that Choice, torching the absolute best run defenses in the league late last season, had a deleterious effect on the team's chances of winning. That team was falling apart at the seams with the soap opera in the locker room: T.O., Romo-Witten, Romo-Jessica, Tank Johnson acting like an idiot, Jason Garrett, soft Wade Phillips, etc.

obviously his running ability isn't the problem. my question was more whether there was some other intangible we don't see in the stats, be it blitz pickup, less convincing play-action fakes, or what have you, that contributed in any way to the cowboys' struggles...Because again this year, he's putting up numbers and they're almost losing to kansas city.it's quite possible there isn't. just since it's happening again I figured it was worth a look. Maybe the cowboys just suck.

i may just be grasping at straws here though. I can usually stay pretty objective but barber is one of the few players on which I know I'm biased. Not because I'm an owner, but because I'm a fan of the guy and his running style.

 

[mulliganman]

Why is Cedric Benson ranked so low (#23 running back in tier 4)? Benson has looked very good this season and is not likely to be replaced any time soon.

Are you familiar with his history? He doesn't exactly scream "stable value."

Yes, we are all aware of Benson's well publicized failures with Chicago. However, dating back to the end of last season and this season he is displaying the talent that made him a top ten pick in the draft. The Bengals aren't going to let the guy go anywhere. I don't think past failures should necessarily be the determining factor in current and future value. This should be especially true when a player is "excersizing" his demons so to speak. Some guys it takes a while to click when transitioning to the NFL.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Why is Cedric Benson ranked so low (#23 running back in tier 4)? Benson has looked very good this season and is not likely to be replaced any time soon.

Are you familiar with his history? He doesn't exactly scream "stable value."

Yes, we are all aware of Benson's well publicized failures with Chicago. However, dating back to the end of last season and this season he is displaying the talent that made him a top ten pick in the draft. The Bengals aren't going to let the guy go anywhere. I don't think past failures should necessarily be the determining factor in current and future value. This should be especially true when a player is "excersizing" his demons so to speak. Some guys it takes a while to click when transitioning to the NFL.

I don't know about "determining," but it's a factor. Other factors:1. Sky-high knucklehead factor.2. As the past 19 years have shown us, the Bengals can fall apart at any time. 3. He'll likely start to lose passing-down work to Bernard Scott once Scott brushes up on his fundamentals.

 

[munchkin]

Why is Cedric Benson ranked so low (#23 running back in tier 4)? Benson has looked very good this season and is not likely to be replaced any time soon.

Are you familiar with his history? He doesn't exactly scream "stable value."

Yes, we are all aware of Benson's well publicized failures with Chicago. However, dating back to the end of last season and this season he is displaying the talent that made him a top ten pick in the draft. The Bengals aren't going to let the guy go anywhere. I don't think past failures should necessarily be the determining factor in current and future value. This should be especially true when a player is "excersizing" his demons so to speak. Some guys it takes a while to click when transitioning to the NFL.

I don't know about "determining," but it's a factor. Other factors:1. Sky-high knucklehead factor.

2. As the past 19 years have shown us, the Bengals can fall apart at any time.

3. He'll likely start to lose passing-down work to Bernard Scott once Scott brushes up on his fundamentals.

I found the following in the game breakdown from the Cincy/Cleveland game two weeks ago. Did anyone else see the game and have an opinion on this:"Scott saw extended action for the first time this, breaking into the lineup for a couple of rush attempts in the first half, then seeing time in base offensive sets as a change-of-pace back in overtime. He hit the hole quickly and showed some elusiveness, though he generally went down on first contact. He was not used on passing downs. "

I don't recall hearing that he had this "down easily on contact" trait in his pre-draft analysis.

 

[FUBAR]

:tapsfoot:They're equal RBs IMO. Both have a bright future. Rice's upside may be higher.

No offense intended, FUBAR.

completely kidding, I just find it funny when I'm mentioned around here.

 

[mulliganman]

Why is Cedric Benson ranked so low (#23 running back in tier 4)? Benson has looked very good this season and is not likely to be replaced any time soon.

Are you familiar with his history? He doesn't exactly scream "stable value."

Yes, we are all aware of Benson's well publicized failures with Chicago. However, dating back to the end of last season and this season he is displaying the talent that made him a top ten pick in the draft. The Bengals aren't going to let the guy go anywhere. I don't think past failures should necessarily be the determining factor in current and future value. This should be especially true when a player is "excersizing" his demons so to speak. Some guys it takes a while to click when transitioning to the NFL.

I don't know about "determining," but it's a factor. Other factors:1. Sky-high knucklehead factor.2. As the past 19 years have shown us, the Bengals can fall apart at any time. 3. He'll likely start to lose passing-down work to Bernard Scott once Scott brushes up on his fundamentals.

There is no strong to suggest he will be losing any of the workload any time soon. As far as being a knucklehead, the guy seems to have turned around. It could be he realized if he didn't begin to dedicate himself he was going to find his way out of the NFL. As far as point #2 goes, that's a ridiculous argument that could be applied to a number of teams who could tank.

 

[SSOG]

Why is Cedric Benson ranked so low (#23 running back in tier 4)? Benson has looked very good this season and is not likely to be replaced any time soon.

Are you familiar with his history? He doesn't exactly scream "stable value."

Yes, we are all aware of Benson's well publicized failures with Chicago. However, dating back to the end of last season and this season he is displaying the talent that made him a top ten pick in the draft. The Bengals aren't going to let the guy go anywhere. I don't think past failures should necessarily be the determining factor in current and future value. This should be especially true when a player is "excersizing" his demons so to speak. Some guys it takes a while to click when transitioning to the NFL.

I don't know about "determining," but it's a factor. Other factors:1. Sky-high knucklehead factor.2. As the past 19 years have shown us, the Bengals can fall apart at any time. 3. He'll likely start to lose passing-down work to Bernard Scott once Scott brushes up on his fundamentals.

There is no strong to suggest he will be losing any of the workload any time soon. As far as being a knucklehead, the guy seems to have turned around. It could be he realized if he didn't begin to dedicate himself he was going to find his way out of the NFL. As far as point #2 goes, that's a ridiculous argument that could be applied to a number of teams who could tank.

Ummm... there is actually a *VERY* strong reason to suggest that Benson will be losing workload sometime soon, and it's called "the entire history of the NFL".So far this season, Cedric Benson has received 87.4% of Cincy's total RB rushes. The only comparisons I can find in recent seasons to that percentage are Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson. Even Matt "I'm the only guy in town" Forte didn't top 80% of his team's RB carries last year.As far as point #2 goes... I think there are very, very few teams that argument could be applied to, because there are very, very few teams that have demonstrated the systematic disregard for anything other than the bottom line that Cincy's owners have shown over the years. Even Detroit's owners care if they put out a winning product- they suck at putting out a winning product, but at least they care.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Ummm... there is actually a *VERY* strong reason to suggest that Benson will be losing workload sometime soon, and it's called "the entire history of the NFL".So far this season, Cedric Benson has received 87.4% of Cincy's total RB rushes. The only comparisons I can find in recent seasons to that percentage are Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson. Even Matt "I'm the only guy in town" Forte didn't top 80% of his team's RB carries last year.

Perhaps you should have looked in Cincinnati. Between 2004 and 2006, Rudi got over 87% of Cincy's RB carries.

 

[BuckeyeArt]

Why is Cedric Benson ranked so low (#23 running back in tier 4)? Benson has looked very good this season and is not likely to be replaced any time soon.

Are you familiar with his history? He doesn't exactly scream "stable value."

Yes, we are all aware of Benson's well publicized failures with Chicago. However, dating back to the end of last season and this season he is displaying the talent that made him a top ten pick in the draft. The Bengals aren't going to let the guy go anywhere. I don't think past failures should necessarily be the determining factor in current and future value. This should be especially true when a player is "excersizing" his demons so to speak. Some guys it takes a while to click when transitioning to the NFL.

I don't know about "determining," but it's a factor. Other factors:1. Sky-high knucklehead factor.2. As the past 19 years have shown us, the Bengals can fall apart at any time. 3. He'll likely start to lose passing-down work to Bernard Scott once Scott brushes up on his fundamentals.

For "1", I always find it funny that Scott has somehow overcome his knucklehead factor and will soon be replacing Benson, who for some reason, cannot overcome his knucklehead factor.For "3", Benson cannot lose what he does not have. Those passing-down plays already belong to Leonard. If Scott somehow wrestles those away, he will be taking them from Leonard.

 

[renesauz]

Why is Cedric Benson ranked so low (#23 running back in tier 4)? Benson has looked very good this season and is not likely to be replaced any time soon.

Are you familiar with his history? He doesn't exactly scream "stable value."

Yes, we are all aware of Benson's well publicized failures with Chicago. However, dating back to the end of last season and this season he is displaying the talent that made him a top ten pick in the draft. The Bengals aren't going to let the guy go anywhere. I don't think past failures should necessarily be the determining factor in current and future value. This should be especially true when a player is "excersizing" his demons so to speak. Some guys it takes a while to click when transitioning to the NFL.

I don't know about "determining," but it's a factor. Other factors:1. Sky-high knucklehead factor.2. As the past 19 years have shown us, the Bengals can fall apart at any time. 3. He'll likely start to lose passing-down work to Bernard Scott once Scott brushes up on his fundamentals.

For "1", I always find it funny that Scott has somehow overcome his knucklehead factor and will soon be replacing Benson, who for some reason, cannot overcome his knucklehead factor.For "3", Benson cannot lose what he does not have. Those passing-down plays already belong to Leonard. If Scott somehow wrestles those away, he will be taking them from Leonard.

Although this argument is solid, I don't think Benson is all that under-rated by F&L. Fact is that the team just isn't that good, and he has a talented youngster behind him. Throw in the undeniable knucklehead factor, and he seems to be ranked in the right area, IMO.

 

[D'OHtis]

For "1", I always find it funny that Scott has somehow overcome his knucklehead factor and will soon be replacing Benson, who for some reason, cannot overcome his knucklehead factor.

Talented youngster in Scott?!?! [in regards to that statement above] Might rethink that. Scott is a whole 13 months younger than Ced. Scott is a 25 year old rookie. How long do you wait on a late round 25 year old to brush up on his fundamentals?

 

[fsufan]

Ummm... there is actually a *VERY* strong reason to suggest that Benson will be losing workload sometime soon, and it's called "the entire history of the NFL".So far this season, Cedric Benson has received 87.4% of Cincy's total RB rushes. The only comparisons I can find in recent seasons to that percentage are Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson. Even Matt "I'm the only guy in town" Forte didn't top 80% of his team's RB carries last year.

Perhaps you should have looked in Cincinnati. Between 2004 and 2006, Rudi got over 87% of Cincy's RB carries.

i was thinking the same thing. as long as Benson stays out of trouble(seems he has turned it around) and keeps playing well I see no reason he will not be a solid FF RB for the next 3 years. Lewis wants to run the ball, look at what Rudi did for a 3 or 4 year run and he was under valued just like Benson is

 

[KingDain]

Please SSOG or FOL, can you please explain what you think about James Davis?

He is no more in the rankings, is he droppable or he will have value next year?

Thank you guys.

 

[mulliganman]

Are you familiar with his history? He doesn't exactly scream "stable value."

Yes, we are all aware of Benson's well publicized failures with Chicago. However, dating back to the end of last season and this season he is displaying the talent that made him a top ten pick in the draft. The Bengals aren't going to let the guy go anywhere. I don't think past failures should necessarily be the determining factor in current and future value. This should be especially true when a player is "excersizing" his demons so to speak. Some guys it takes a while to click when transitioning to the NFL.

I don't know about "determining," but it's a factor. Other factors:

1. Sky-high knucklehead factor.

2. As the past 19 years have shown us, the Bengals can fall apart at any time.

3. He'll likely start to lose passing-down work to Bernard Scott once Scott brushes up on his fundamentals.

There is no strong to suggest he will be losing any of the workload any time soon. As far as being a knucklehead, the guy seems to have turned around. It could be he realized if he didn't begin to dedicate himself he was going to find his way out of the NFL. As far as point #2 goes, that's a ridiculous argument that could be applied to a number of teams who could tank.

Ummm... there is actually a *VERY* strong reason to suggest that Benson will be losing workload sometime soon, and it's called "the entire history of the NFL".

So far this season, Cedric Benson has received 87.4% of Cincy's total RB rushes. The only comparisons I can find in recent seasons to that percentage are Larry Johnson and Steven Jackson. Even Matt "I'm the only guy in town" Forte didn't top 80% of his team's RB carries last year.

As far as point #2 goes... I think there are very, very few teams that argument could be applied to, because there are very, very few teams that have demonstrated the systematic disregard for anything other than the bottom line that Cincy's owners have shown over the years. Even Detroit's owners care if they put out a winning product- they suck at putting out a winning product, but at least they care.

I think the Titans for one would qualify for point #2.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

a RB at the cliff, like I do with BJacobs

Can we get some more thoughts on Jacobs? A lot of people are really down on him, and I think there is a fair amount of overreacting going on.

I agree. I've never been huge on the guy because he doesn't catch passes and appears a bit injury-prone, but there's way too much over-reaction going on.

Jacobs will be done in 2 yrs or less.......Tall, straight-line punishing runners (ala Eddie George, C.Okoye types) can sometimes come in and exit rather quickly...Although Eddie G had a nice run, I think he is the exception rather than the rule with guys of this stature and style.....He simply takes (and gives) too many big hits.......Right now and going forward, Bradshaw >>>> Jacobs....not even close. Bradshaw is very close to becoming an NFL star, a "poor man's" MJD, but may in fact lose the "poor man's" label shortly and just become an MJD clone.....

Maybe when he gets legs about 3 times more powerful than he currently has bro. haha

He's not built like MJD but his game is pretty similiar - small, explosive, better than average straight line speed, great vision, surprising power. MJD is more powerful and a better inside runner, but Bradshaw has plenty of power. Go back an look at the Giants playoff run his rookie season. Bradshaw was the one "closing" games. Watch the Superbowl where he carries a defensive end 10 yards downfield on his back. The guy is a pretty complete back and on the verge of stradom. The only reason he fell in the draft so far, was that he got in some serious trouble in college (and recently was back behind bars as a result of violating that parole).

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I'm loath to ask an ACF question here since I just showed up and would rather not be banned from the thread, but I noticed that F&L hasn't updated the WR rankings yet, we have many knowledgeable dynasty posters here, and I'm feeling rebellious tonight so here goes.......Zealots league (53 man IDP). I'm at 4-1 & feel like I need an upgrade at WR. I've been offered Eddie Royal for my '10 1st round rookie pick. This owner also has Desean Jackson & Harvin, though he's not keen on trading either (he's rebuilding). Here are my WRs:Bruce, Isaac SFO WR 15.90 6 FA Cotchery, Jerricho NYJ WR (Q) 43.43 9 FA Crayton, Patrick DAL WR 36.20 6 FA Cribbs, Josh CLE WR 40.56 9 FA Davis, Andre' HOU WR 9.18 10 FA Edwards, Braylon NYJ WR 27.30 9 FA Gaffney, Jabar DEN WR 22.50 7 FA Henderson, Devery NOS WR 30.50 5 FA Henry, Chris CIN WR 23.00 8 FA Moss, Sinorice NYG WR 14.23 10 FA Robiskie, Brian CLE WR ® 1.00 9 2.03 Smith, Steve NYG WR 72.10 10 FA Tate, Brandon NEP WR ® (O) - 8 2.06 Wallace, Mike PIT WR ® 31.60 8 5.04 Washington, Nate TEN WR 37.60 7 FA Williams, Demetrius BAL WR 0.00 7 FA I've been playing mix-and-match thus far, with Smith the only constant along with some combo of Cotchery/Crayton/Cribbs/Edwards/Henry/Washington for the other 2 or 3 spots each week. Royal had done squat until this past week and I still don't trust Orton. What are your thoughts on ER going forward? And is a 1st round rookie pick fair? And lastly, would you take him or Desean if given the choice?

Seems like a no-brainer to me, even if you didnt need his services. A LATE first round pick is always worth a young up and coming potential stud. Royal has already shown more then most late first round picks ever will, and is immediately useful. Run, don't walk, to the "accept" button.ETA: Desean would certainly be higher on my list, but it's hard to imagine any owner being that criminally stupid to trade Desean for a late first.

I agree with everything said here.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Please SSOG or FOL, can you please explain what you think about James Davis?He is no more in the rankings, is he droppable or he will have value next year?Thank you guys.

He's eminently droppable. If you want to hold onto him with the hope that he takes over next year, that's your prerogative. But if I was competing for a title this year and needed the roster space, it wouldn't bother me at all to drop Davis. Despite his impressive preseason, Mangini never seemed all that interested in giving him a chance.

 

[number 9]

F&L,

Long time reader, first time poster (I believe). I love viewing your rankings as I find them to coinside with my personal rankings more-so than any other dynasty ranking system I've found. I've currently found myself in a slight roster dilemma due to your rankings. My dynasty league utilizes a home field flex pick with QB, RB, WR, and TE available as the flexes. There are awards given for highest point totals for individual weeks and the year, and as QB scores highest on average, QB is the most popular flex. It has been realized that a strong QB stable is very important in this league format if you have the luxury of extra QB's they are easily tradeable because there is always at least one team desperate for one. (My league set-up and team are in my sig).

Now my dilemma is Mike Vick. You have him ranked higher than anybody else I've seen. He was just recently dropped by another team in my league. I was hoping to get your thoughts and reasonings behind this ranking and if you think he is somebody worth stashing on my roster.

I would also like to hear the thoughts of any other posters in this board.

 

[renesauz]

F&L,

Long time reader, first time poster (I believe). I love viewing your rankings as I find them to coinside with my personal rankings more-so than any other dynasty ranking system I've found. I've currently found myself in a slight roster dilemma due to your rankings. My dynasty league utilizes a home field flex pick with QB, RB, WR, and TE available as the flexes. There are awards given for highest point totals for individual weeks and the year, and as QB scores highest on average, QB is the most popular flex. It has been realized that a strong QB stable is very important in this league format if you have the luxury of extra QB's they are easily tradeable because there is always at least one team desperate for one. (My league set-up and team are in my sig).

Now my dilemma is Mike Vick. You have him ranked higher than anybody else I've seen. He was just recently dropped by another team in my league. I was hoping to get your thoughts and reasonings behind this ranking and if you think he is somebody worth stashing on my roster.

I would also like to hear the thoughts of any other posters in this board.

It seems like the answer to this would depend a great deal on the roster limits. Vick is highly unlikely to carry any value this year as a QB. If he gets back to his old self, Philly will almost certainly trade him in the off-season to a QB-starved team, so Vick has a decent chance of being a starting QB next year. If he doesn't get back to his old self, Philly will release him (the contract is structured such that next year is an option for the club, so they wouldn't really even be releasing him). If he's released, I would expect Vick to still be picked up by a QB starved club and be given at least the chance to compete for a job.Bottom line is that if you have a roster spot you can burn for this year, it's probably worth the gamble in leagues where QB's dominate.

 

[domvin]

a RB at the cliff, like I do with BJacobs

Can we get some more thoughts on Jacobs? A lot of people are really down on him, and I think there is a fair amount of overreacting going on.

Coughlin still seems to be in Jacob's corner which is a good thing and at the very least you know that you're getting a goal-line back in a better than average offense - so there's no need to think Jacobs will become obsolete any time soon.However, if you've watched Giant games, Ahmad Bradshaw is clearly the better overall back this season. I've actually thought this since his rookie season (but Couglin who likely knows a lot more about football than me seemed to disagree). Bradshaw is a lot more explosive and runs with plenty of power in his "small" package.The possibility certainly exists that Bradshaw starts getting more and more carries at Jacob's expense, considering he has 20 more yards rushing on 42 less carries.

I agree on Bradshaw...he looks far more explosive. Has anyone mentioned the aspect of Jacobs being paid this past past offseason? He does not look as "toned" as he has the past two years

 

[thriftyrocker]

Now my dilemma is Mike Vick. You have him ranked higher than anybody else I've seen. He was just recently dropped by another team in my league. I was hoping to get your thoughts and reasonings behind this ranking and if you think he is somebody worth stashing on my roster. I would also like to hear the thoughts of any other posters in this board.

Given who he put in these tiers, I think Vick is right where he should be. Tier 5 is filled with guys who have non-guaranteed near-term opportunity who have flashed the talent needed to take it. Vick is not going to start in Philly. That is painfully obvious. He also seems pretty disinterested in being the Wildcat QB. Considering those two things, I think the Eagles will try hard to find a suitor for him this offseason. That team will make him a starter.What remains to be seen is if he ever gets his speed back. He hasn't shown it so far, but 30 is not that old. The chances of him doing what Randall Cunningham did in Minnesota and become a good pocket QB are pretty low. The full offseason should be enough for him to get back into shape, and I think the chances are good he'll be a reasonable facsimile of the old Vick for a 2-3 year run, plus a little better pocket presence.

 

[valhallan]

My dynasty league utilizes a home field flex pick with QB, RB, WR, and TE available as the flexes.

Just curious, how does your league like this? Do some complain about it? Are these local guys or other hardcore FBG types? Also, when does the home team decide the flex? Is there a deadline? I'd love to do this in my league, but haven't heard much about the reality of it. Thanks.

 

[number 9]

My dynasty league utilizes a home field flex pick with QB, RB, WR, and TE available as the flexes.

Just curious, how does your league like this? Do some complain about it? Are these local guys or other hardcore FBG types? Also, when does the home team decide the flex? Is there a deadline? I'd love to do this in my league, but haven't heard much about the reality of it. Thanks.

It works real well for us. Originally we were all from the Pittsburgh area but following highschool/college started dispersing a little. This is why we switched to the dynasty format, now in it's 4th year (following 6 years of redraft). Everything is scheduled. All players go on waivers at the start of their game, come off waivers at 10pm on Tuesdays. Flex picks must be in by the home team by Noon on Wednesday's in order for the away team to have time to pull off any trades/FA pickups to accomodate the flex (sometimes the TE flex puts teams in weird positions due to byes and low number of TE's on rosters). We play a 13 week regular season, so the bottom 5 teams from the previous year get the extra home game (promoting parody). The only two semi-problems with the system are the lazier owners not getting their flexes in on time which gives the away team an unfair advantage as compared to the rest of the league because in essence he is given a neutral game instead of an away game; and second, sometimes people don't put flexes in on purpose as a strategy. This one isn't really a problem as it is considered strategy, but it wasn't the initial intention of the flex set-up. If a player wants to flex QB, and the other team has a legit QB option, the home team may not post a flex hoping the away team has ridiculously high projections for a RB or WR of his, who on average will post less than the QB. In that case, the home team will play his extra QB, and the away team may play his RB/WR thinking it will give him more points while the home team is thinking it will give him less. Overall though I think it's more fun, brings a little more strategy, and gets more smack talk going which is fun cause we're all friends.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

F&L,

Long time reader, first time poster (I believe). I love viewing your rankings as I find them to coinside with my personal rankings more-so than any other dynasty ranking system I've found. I've currently found myself in a slight roster dilemma due to your rankings. My dynasty league utilizes a home field flex pick with QB, RB, WR, and TE available as the flexes. There are awards given for highest point totals for individual weeks and the year, and as QB scores highest on average, QB is the most popular flex. It has been realized that a strong QB stable is very important in this league format if you have the luxury of extra QB's they are easily tradeable because there is always at least one team desperate for one. (My league set-up and team are in my sig).

Now my dilemma is Mike Vick. You have him ranked higher than anybody else I've seen. He was just recently dropped by another team in my league. I was hoping to get your thoughts and reasonings behind this ranking and if you think he is somebody worth stashing on my roster.

I would also like to hear the thoughts of any other posters in this board.

It seems like the answer to this would depend a great deal on the roster limits. Vick is highly unlikely to carry any value this year as a QB. If he gets back to his old self, Philly will almost certainly trade him in the off-season to a QB-starved team, so Vick has a decent chance of being a starting QB next year. If he doesn't get back to his old self, Philly will release him (the contract is structured such that next year is an option for the club, so they wouldn't really even be releasing him). If he's released, I would expect Vick to still be picked up by a QB starved club and be given at least the chance to compete for a job.Bottom line is that if you have a roster spot you can burn for this year, it's probably worth the gamble in leagues where QB's dominate.

That's pretty much it. I would add that while Vick is certainly no sure thing, he has the potential to be a fantasy asset as a starter ... which is always the most important function of the roster stash. It isn't enough just to have a shot at a starting job down the line. The player must have the potential to be a fantasy asset.

Vick isn't going to be back with the Eagles next season, so he'll likely be starting somewhere else. I don't know what his skills will look like last season, but for a player who has twice finished as a Top-3 fantasy QB, he's certainly worthy of a dice roll.

 

[valhallan]

My dynasty league utilizes a home field flex pick with QB, RB, WR, and TE available as the flexes.

Just curious, how does your league like this? Do some complain about it? Are these local guys or other hardcore FBG types? Also, when does the home team decide the flex? Is there a deadline? I'd love to do this in my league, but haven't heard much about the reality of it. Thanks.

It works real well for us. Originally we were all from the Pittsburgh area but following highschool/college started dispersing a little. This is why we switched to the dynasty format, now in it's 4th year (following 6 years of redraft). Everything is scheduled. All players go on waivers at the start of their game, come off waivers at 10pm on Tuesdays. Flex picks must be in by the home team by Noon on Wednesday's in order for the away team to have time to pull off any trades/FA pickups to accomodate the flex (sometimes the TE flex puts teams in weird positions due to byes and low number of TE's on rosters). We play a 13 week regular season, so the bottom 5 teams from the previous year get the extra home game (promoting parody). The only two semi-problems with the system are the lazier owners not getting their flexes in on time which gives the away team an unfair advantage as compared to the rest of the league because in essence he is given a neutral game instead of an away game; and second, sometimes people don't put flexes in on purpose as a strategy. This one isn't really a problem as it is considered strategy, but it wasn't the initial intention of the flex set-up. If a player wants to flex QB, and the other team has a legit QB option, the home team may not post a flex hoping the away team has ridiculously high projections for a RB or WR of his, who on average will post less than the QB. In that case, the home team will play his extra QB, and the away team may play his RB/WR thinking it will give him more points while the home team is thinking it will give him less. Overall though I think it's more fun, brings a little more strategy, and gets more smack talk going which is fun cause we're all friends.

My league has a very similar history and we've always toyed with the idea of home field advantage using a flex position. Thanks, your real world experience will be helpful if we consider a change.

 

[SSOG]

Please SSOG or FOL, can you please explain what you think about James Davis?He is no more in the rankings, is he droppable or he will have value next year?Thank you guys.

Young RB, no pedigree to speak of. People were going gaga over him because he looked good in the preseason, but not only did he not wrest the job away from JamLew, he also lost ground to Harrison. In order for a late round back to gain traction he really needs to make a lot of noise and demonstrate quickly that he's legit, because if not the team will just bring in another no-name 6th rounder next year who will play HIS heart out in the preseason and get the hype.I would have no problem dropping James Davis if there was someone else on the wire who I liked, although I'd try to trade him, first. He still might have some residual value based on the preseason hype. Worst case scenario, you might be able to get a 3rd rounder for him.

 

[kremenull]

Please SSOG or FOL, can you please explain what you think about James Davis?He is no more in the rankings, is he droppable or he will have value next year?Thank you guys.

Young RB, no pedigree to speak of. People were going gaga over him because he looked good in the preseason, but not only did he not wrest the job away from JamLew, he also lost ground to Harrison. In order for a late round back to gain traction he really needs to make a lot of noise and demonstrate quickly that he's legit, because if not the team will just bring in another no-name 6th rounder next year who will play HIS heart out in the preseason and get the hype.I would have no problem dropping James Davis if there was someone else on the wire who I liked, although I'd try to trade him, first. He still might have some residual value based on the preseason hype. Worst case scenario, you might be able to get a 3rd rounder for him.

I certainly would hold him for next season. Just the fact that there isn't a lot in the fold right now in Cleveland gives this guy a chance to earn some quality PT. Sure, they will bring in some competition next year, but who knows, maybe Mangini is one of these guys who believes that he can "turn dust into gold", so to speak, ala Mike Shanahan, and he eschews drafting a RB high in the draft. Bottom line, I'd at least wait it out because if Davis does go on to seize the starting gig in Cleveland and puts up a nice, Ryan Grant- or Pierre Thomas-like few seasons, it will have easily been worth the stash.

 

[SSOG]

I certainly would hold him for next season. Just the fact that there isn't a lot in the fold right now in Cleveland gives this guy a chance to earn some quality PT. Sure, they will bring in some competition next year, but who knows, maybe Mangini is one of these guys who believes that he can "turn dust into gold", so to speak, ala Mike Shanahan, and he eschews drafting a RB high in the draft. Bottom line, I'd at least wait it out because if Davis does go on to seize the starting gig in Cleveland and puts up a nice, Ryan Grant- or Pierre Thomas-like few seasons, it will have easily been worth the stash.

Wait, you're saying that the best result for Davis is if Mangini behaves like Shanahan? Shanahan views RBs as fungible pieces. At one point, Shanahan dumped his leading rusher after the season every year for FOUR CONSECUTIVE YEARS (Portis led the team in rushing and was traded. Droughns led the team in rushing and left via free agency. Anderson led the team in rushing and left via free agency. Tatum led the team in rushing and was traded). He gave the starting RB job to 4th rounders (Gary), 6th rounders (Anderson), and UFAs (Mike Bell, Selvin Young). If Mangini has the same philosophy that Shanahan had, Davis is screwed, because Shanahan's philosophy was that good enough was never good enough, meaning he was always bringing in some new competition on the cheap. I don't think Davis is talented enough to hold off any new competition above and beyond the competition he already has (and already couldn't hold off).

 

[Jedimaster21]

I certainly would hold him for next season. Just the fact that there isn't a lot in the fold right now in Cleveland gives this guy a chance to earn some quality PT. Sure, they will bring in some competition next year, but who knows, maybe Mangini is one of these guys who believes that he can "turn dust into gold", so to speak, ala Mike Shanahan, and he eschews drafting a RB high in the draft. Bottom line, I'd at least wait it out because if Davis does go on to seize the starting gig in Cleveland and puts up a nice, Ryan Grant- or Pierre Thomas-like few seasons, it will have easily been worth the stash.

Wait, you're saying that the best result for Davis is if Mangini behaves like Shanahan? Shanahan views RBs as fungible pieces. At one point, Shanahan dumped his leading rusher after the season every year for FOUR CONSECUTIVE YEARS (Portis led the team in rushing and was traded. Droughns led the team in rushing and left via free agency. Anderson led the team in rushing and left via free agency. Tatum led the team in rushing and was traded). He gave the starting RB job to 4th rounders (Gary), 6th rounders (Anderson), and UFAs (Mike Bell, Selvin Young). If Mangini has the same philosophy that Shanahan had, Davis is screwed, because Shanahan's philosophy was that good enough was never good enough, meaning he was always bringing in some new competition on the cheap. I don't think Davis is talented enough to hold off any new competition above and beyond the competition he already has (and already couldn't hold off).

I think you are writing off Davis a little too fast. I drafted him fairly early in my draft, over some other very solid options. But it wasn't only due to the preseason hype. He was actually a very highly rated prospect in 2007, and was given a second round grade after his junior year by the NFL advisory committee. Here is a little more backround info on him..."Since his high school days at Douglass High Georgia, the 5-11, 210 lb halfback has been a talent worth scouting. Davis' stellar pre career included 7,339 yards rushing and 80 TDs. From there it was off to Clemson where as a Freshman he rushed for 879 yards on 165 carries scoring 9 times in the process. His Sophomore season he would improve to 1,187 yards rushing and 17 touchdowns, earning All-ACC in the process. His impressive total included a 216 yard rushing day against Georgia. Davis would repeat as All-ACC as a Junior in 2007 when he was Clemson leading rusher for a third straight season."He actually had some pretty average measurables, but ran a 4.39 at his pro day. He was misused his senior year and CJ Spiller took away a lot of work, but he is a lot more talented than his draft position. He actually has a fairly decent pedigree and has been impressive on the field (while healthy) when I have seen him. I think he will get a shot to start with the Browns next year, so if you can't get decent value I would hold onto him.

 

[TheWick]

What are everyones thoughts on Anthony Gonzalez? Has he lost his spot? Is he a good buy low candidate who will return to 70-1000 potential once healthy? Thanks

 

[MountainMan0726]

I see that Knowshon Moreno has been moved up to the 6th spot in the Dynasty RB rankings, which has me excited as a Denver fan. I see the San Diego game as a kind of "last chance" to buy Moreno at his current level of value. I have a deal on the table to get him now in a Dynasty, but just can't seem to click the mouse.

F&L or SSOG - can I get a breakdown of Moreno as far as career outlook, risk, upside, etc.? The simple 6th place ranking justification would suffice. I want to be very optimistic but don't want my orange/blue colored glasses to cause overpayment.

The only breakdown piece I've found so far is an article on Moreno vs. LT: Link Here

(I started to type a list of "worries", but could only come up with McDaniel's history of RBBC; however he's never had this much talent in 1 back...)

Thanks.

 

[SSOG]

F&L and I don't see eye-to-eye on this. F&L thinks Moreno is a truly special talent. I think that Moreno is a quality NFL talent who landed behind the best offensive line in the entire NFL. I think that Moreno's more of a very good runner than a great runner, but that his all-around skills will keep him on the field a lot, and will help him hold off all challengers for the job. Basically, I feel the exact same way about Moreno as I feel about Forte, except Moreno gets an edge because of situation, and because Moreno still has some room to convince me that I'm wrong in my evaluation (oddly enough, Forte's another point of disagreement; F&L feels the same way about Forte as he does about Moreno, too).

People say that McDaniels has a history of RBBC, but I say that McDaniels has a history of mediocre RBs, and an RBBC guy doesn't spend the #12 pick on an RB, especially when he's in the middle of a big-time defensive transition. Also, while it kind of flew under the radar because the numbers were spread around so much, New England very quietly got awesome numbers from its RBs under McDaniels.

Now, just because I don't think Moreno is a truly special talent doesn't mean I can't still really like him in a dynasty setting. I've got several young RBs in or around my top 20 who I'd describe as merely above-average runners who find themselves in favorable situations (Moreno, Forte, Kevin Smith, Mendenhall, Benson, etc). I traded the #20 overall draft pick and Owen Daniels in order to move up one spot from #2 to #1 (I was convinced that Moreno was head and shoulders above the rest of the rookie RBs this year, and couldn't find any partners willing to let me trade down to grab Crabtree or Harvin). I'd probably rank him right at the top of tier 3, right around RB10 or so.

 

[EBF]

F&L and I don't see eye-to-eye on this. F&L thinks Moreno is a truly special talent. I think that Moreno is a quality NFL talent who landed behind the best offensive line in the entire NFL. I think that Moreno's more of a very good runner than a great runner, but that his all-around skills will keep him on the field a lot, and will help him hold off all challengers for the job. Basically, I feel the exact same way about Moreno as I feel about Forte, except Moreno gets an edge because of situation, and because Moreno still has some room to convince me that I'm wrong in my evaluation (oddly enough, Forte's another point of disagreement; F&L feels the same way about Forte as he does about Moreno, too).People say that McDaniels has a history of RBBC, but I say that McDaniels has a history of mediocre RBs, and an RBBC guy doesn't spend the #12 pick on an RB, especially when he's in the middle of a big-time defensive transition. Also, while it kind of flew under the radar because the numbers were spread around so much, New England very quietly got awesome numbers from its RBs under McDaniels.Now, just because I don't think Moreno is a truly special talent doesn't mean I can't still really like him in a dynasty setting. I've got several young RBs in or around my top 20 who I'd describe as merely above-average runners who find themselves in favorable situations (Moreno, Forte, Kevin Smith, Mendenhall, Benson, etc). I traded the #20 overall draft pick and Owen Daniels in order to move up one spot from #2 to #1 (I was convinced that Moreno was head and shoulders above the rest of the rookie RBs this year, and couldn't find any partners willing to let me trade down to grab Crabtree or Harvin). I'd probably rank him right at the top of tier 3, right around RB10 or so.

I agree with this take. I don't think Moreno is significantly more talented than lower ranked guys like Jonathan Stewart, Pierre Thomas, Ray Rice, and Rashard Mendenhall. In fact, I'm not sure he's more talented than any of those guys, but he has the benefit of a favorable situation. Denver spent a high pick on him and it's clear that they want him to become their primary RB. I think he's good enough to command a significant number of touches for the foreseeable future. I would point towards Thomas Jones and Marshawn Lynch for a talent comparison. These backs are good enough to command touches even if they aren't necessarily superstars. That's roughly what I expect from Moreno moving forward. Solid RB2 in dynasty leagues. Probably not a difference maker unless the stars align for him.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

F&L and I don't see eye-to-eye on this. F&L thinks Moreno is a truly special talent. I think that Moreno is a quality NFL talent who landed behind the best offensive line in the entire NFL. I think that Moreno's more of a very good runner than a great runner, but that his all-around skills will keep him on the field a lot, and will help him hold off all challengers for the job. Basically, I feel the exact same way about Moreno as I feel about Forte, except Moreno gets an edge because of situation, and because Moreno still has some room to convince me that I'm wrong in my evaluation (oddly enough, Forte's another point of disagreement; F&L feels the same way about Forte as he does about Moreno, too).

People say that McDaniels has a history of RBBC, but I say that McDaniels has a history of mediocre RBs, and an RBBC guy doesn't spend the #12 pick on an RB, especially when he's in the middle of a big-time defensive transition. Also, while it kind of flew under the radar because the numbers were spread around so much, New England very quietly got awesome numbers from its RBs under McDaniels.

Now, just because I don't think Moreno is a truly special talent doesn't mean I can't still really like him in a dynasty setting. I've got several young RBs in or around my top 20 who I'd describe as merely above-average runners who find themselves in favorable situations (Moreno, Forte, Kevin Smith, Mendenhall, Benson, etc). I traded the #20 overall draft pick and Owen Daniels in order to move up one spot from #2 to #1 (I was convinced that Moreno was head and shoulders above the rest of the rookie RBs this year, and couldn't find any partners willing to let me trade down to grab Crabtree or Harvin). I'd probably rank him right at the top of tier 3, right around RB10 or so.

I think Moreno is more talented than Forte -- by quite a bit. They both get high marks for character, fundamentals, and all-around skills, but Moreno has that great "burst" and -- like SSOG said -- the Broncos' O-Line. Honestly, Moreno is one of the best I've ever seen at finishing runs and falling forward for that extra yardage. His breakaway speed obviously won't overwhelm anybody, but he does everything else well. I also found it interesting that one of the Broncos coaches said Moreno is one of the best team leaders he's ever seen ... as a rookie.Edit to add: For the record, I'm not all that huge on Forte. I don't think he's a special talent, but he's rock solid in all areas. I advised against drafting him in re-draft leagues and advocated selling him in all Dynasty leagues before the season started. I think he'll hold value for a long time, but he won't be a stud.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

I agree with this take. I don't think Moreno is significantly more talented than lower ranked guys like Jonathan Stewart, Pierre Thomas, Ray Rice, and Rashard Mendenhall. In fact, I'm not sure he's more talented than any of those guys, but he has the benefit of a favorable situation. Denver spent a high pick on him and it's clear that they want him to become their primary RB. I think he's good enough to command a significant number of touches for the foreseeable future. I would point towards Thomas Jones and Marshawn Lynch for a talent comparison. These backs are good enough to command touches even if they aren't necessarily superstars. That's roughly what I expect from Moreno moving forward. Solid RB2 in dynasty leagues. Probably not a difference maker unless the stars align for him.

I think Stewart is one of the five most talented backs in the NFL, but situation does matter too.

 

[thatguy]

I don't know what SSOG and EBF are seeing, but everything Moreno does leads to believe he IS a special talent. He's not a once in a decade talent ala Peterson, Faulk and Tomlinson, but he is a special player. F & L already mentioned his burst, but outside of that he has tremendous vision and patience (ala Edge in his prime), which are things you simply can't teach. He has a knack for finding a small crease and wiggling through it to get to the second level (ala Portis). He's deceptively powerful and very slippery. He has tremendous hands and route running ability as well. The only knock on him as F & L said is so-so straight line speed, but his quickness and burst more than make up for that. His football speed is actually very fast. I think he's far more talented than Thomas Jones, and also more talented than Lynch. He has great football smarts and elite instinct which I think puts him head and shoulders above those guys. I do think Stewart is more talented, but agree with F & L that few RB's in football have that kind talent. I think Tomlinson is a good comp. Moreno is not quite as shifty and not as fast in the open field, but the rest of his skillset is very comparable to LT. He has the burst and quickness and slipperiness to make up for the aforementioned shortcomings, and though not on Tomlinson's level, he is fairly elusive (few are as elusive or shifty as Tomlinson was in his prime).

 

[SSOG]

I don't know what SSOG and EBF are seeing, but everything Moreno does leads to believe he IS a special talent. He's not a once in a decade talent ala Peterson, Faulk and Tomlinson, but he is a special player. F & L already mentioned his burst, but outside of that he has tremendous vision and patience (ala Edge in his prime), which are things you simply can't teach. He has a knack for finding a small crease and wiggling through it to get to the second level (ala Portis). He's deceptively powerful and very slippery. He has tremendous hands and route running ability as well. The only knock on him as F & L said is so-so straight line speed, but his quickness and burst more than make up for that. His football speed is actually very fast. I think he's far more talented than Thomas Jones, and also more talented than Lynch. He has great football smarts and elite instinct which I think puts him head and shoulders above those guys. I do think Stewart is more talented, but agree with F & L that few RB's in football have that kind talent. I think Tomlinson is a good comp. Moreno is not quite as shifty and not as fast in the open field, but the rest of his skillset is very comparable to LT. He has the burst and quickness and slipperiness to make up for the aforementioned shortcomings, and though not on Tomlinson's level, he is fairly elusive (few are as elusive or shifty as Tomlinson was in his prime).

If Moreno's so elite, then why's he getting outperformed by Correll Buckhalter? I always think one of the best measures of an RB is how his teammates perform in the same situation. I think Moreno is better than Buckhalter, but the fact that we even have to have this conversation is pretty damning, imo.

 

[FUBAR]

I don't know what SSOG and EBF are seeing, but everything Moreno does leads to believe he IS a special talent. He's not a once in a decade talent ala Peterson, Faulk and Tomlinson, but he is a special player. F & L already mentioned his burst, but outside of that he has tremendous vision and patience (ala Edge in his prime), which are things you simply can't teach. He has a knack for finding a small crease and wiggling through it to get to the second level (ala Portis). He's deceptively powerful and very slippery. He has tremendous hands and route running ability as well. The only knock on him as F & L said is so-so straight line speed, but his quickness and burst more than make up for that. His football speed is actually very fast. I think he's far more talented than Thomas Jones, and also more talented than Lynch. He has great football smarts and elite instinct which I think puts him head and shoulders above those guys. I do think Stewart is more talented, but agree with F & L that few RB's in football have that kind talent. I think Tomlinson is a good comp. Moreno is not quite as shifty and not as fast in the open field, but the rest of his skillset is very comparable to LT. He has the burst and quickness and slipperiness to make up for the aforementioned shortcomings, and though not on Tomlinson's level, he is fairly elusive (few are as elusive or shifty as Tomlinson was in his prime).

If Moreno's so elite, then why's he getting outperformed by Correll Buckhalter? I always think one of the best measures of an RB is how his teammates perform in the same situation. I think Moreno is better than Buckhalter, but the fact that we even have to have this conversation is pretty damning, imo.

Buck has the higher average, but he netted most of his yardage against Oakland and Cleveland. The past 2 weeks, Moreno has played well. There is no doubt that Moreno gets the bigger load moving forward and Buck isn't close.

I don't think Moreno is an all-world talent, but I agree with F&L, he's a complete back.