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***Official Soccer Discussion Thread*** (3 Viewers)

CletiusMaximus said:
Moe. said:
He wouldn't be eligible to play in the CL until next season, right?
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good pointI'm not a fan of this acquisition.
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I think the idea is to buy him now (before the possibility of a transfer ban takes effect in the summer) and then loan him back to Atletico for the remainder of the season. The other option is to use him for domestic games given that Drogba and Kalou (and Essien) will be playing in the African Nations Cup. Im a big fan of this kid and think he is one of the few young talents in the world worth such a hefty investment.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Soccer magazine Four Four Two does a top 100 ranking every year...

This was this year's list FWIW:

100. Ronaldo

99. Santon

98. (Javier) Zanetti

97. Gomez

96. Akinfeev

95. Giggs

94. Chygrynskiy

93. Palacios

92. Van Nistelrooy

91. Gonzalez

90. Eduardo

89. Misimovic

88. Cazorla

87. Navas

86. Raul

85. Van der Sar

84. Gallas

83. Ronaldinho

82. Del Piero

81. Chamakh

80. Mutu

79. Bosingwa

78. Gignac

77. Gilardino

76. Cech

75. Huntelaar

74. Dzeko

73. Pepe

72. Zhirkov

71. Clichy

70. Milito

69. Grafite

68. Tevez

67. Cassano

66. Srna

65. Van Persie :shrug:

64. Motta

63. Fabiano

62. Melo

61. ModricTop 20 next year.

60. Chiellini

59. Lahm

58. Reina

57. Robinho

56. Tymoschuk

55. Cambiasso

54. Totti

53. Pirlo

52. Senna

51. Piquetop 30

50. Higuain

49. Ballack

48. Sneijder

47. Carvalho

46. Ramos

45. Silva

44. Berbatov

43. Kanoute

42. AnelkaTop 10 as of now IMO

41. Diarra

40. Robben

39. (Yaya) Toure

38. AdebayorTop 20, maybe 10 when healthy.

37. Gourcuff

36. AlonsoWe miss him SO much!

35. Buffon

34. TerryTop 10

33. Evra

32. Pato

31. Aguero

30. De Rossi

29. Benzema

28. Cole

27. MascheranoLMAO top 50?

26. Henryagain, top 50?

25. Alves

24. Diego

23. Cesar

22. Vidic

21. Forlan

20. Fabregastop 10

19. Ribery

18. Essien25-50

17. Maicon

16. Casillas

15. Arshavin

14. Drogba

13. Ibrahimovic#5 for me

12. Ferdinand really?

11. Lampard15-30

10. Rooney#1 babay! actually #2 after Messi imho.

9. Eto’o

8. Kaka#3

7. Gerrard

6. Torres

5. Villa ;)

3= Iniesta

3= Xavi

2. Ronaldo5-10

1. Messi yeah

I think it's actually a really solid list (and an excellent magazine BTW), and I think Rooney at #10 is pretty spot on as well
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I HATE Chelski but you gotta give Anelka, Drogba, and Terry HUGE credit this year. Essian and Frankie, not so much. Bellamy is top 30 now at least and where is a certain long hair D player from Barca? I agree more with guru on the Man. U stuff also of course.
 
TLEF316 said:
France is unseeded. Netherlands in their place. a little bit of justice.
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Well that just put our chances of advancing at something decently south of 50%. At this point I'm just hoping we get a hard group (ie 2 good teams and one of the worst of group 3/4) instead of a true GOD especially since it looks like the whole world wants France in such a group.
 
Sammy3469 said:
andy_b said:
TLEF316 said:
France is unseeded. Netherlands in their place. a little bit of justice.
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I don't think FIFA has announced the pots yet have they? These are just people making predictions as I understand it.
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Pots were announced earlier today. Pot 1 seeds. Pot 2 CONCACAF/ASIA. Pot 3 S America/Africa. Pot 4 rest of Euro
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:lmao: Why can't we ever get a crack at the cruddy Asian teams in the group play? :(Projected US group: Brazil, France, Cote D'Ivoire, USEven the best case would be tough since if we get South Africa, we automatically get one of the 3 South American teams :(Best case, I guess, would be something like South Africa, Slovenia, US, UruguayMost comical potential group: South Africa, North Korea, Slovenia, UruguaySince we're kinda screwed right off the bat, I just hope that Mexico gets an even harder group than us, but of course they'll probably get the group I mentioned as the best case scenario since that's what usually happens :( -QG
 
No huge surprises so far. Off the cuff, I think the key is to avoid Ivory Coast, Ghana and Nigeria from Pot 3 and avoid France, Greece and Portugal from pot 4. The US will need three points from one of its games if it hopes to advance, and I think if we avoid these six teams, we would have a decent chance to get a win and a draw from those two games. Other than South Africa, I don't see any difference from the US perspective as to who is drawn from the seeded group.

 
if i had to rank my preferred draw from the seed, i'd rank as follows......

1) South Africa

2) Italy

3) Germany

4) Spain

5) Argentina

6) England

7) The Netherlands

8) Brazil

I want no part of brazil again. they're too explosive up front. Italy can be beaten. I dont know too much about Germany (other than Ballack) but i'd rather take my chances with them then those i ranked above them.

England is the wild card due to all their injuries/guys playing below form (Ferdinand, Gerrard, Lampard, ect). If they are full stregnth and throw their best team out there, they are very dangerous. However, i would like our chances much better if Wes Brown is out their at CB they dont have their top midfielders.

Argentina obviously struggled in qualifying, but i dont see any way we can mark all of the small, quick attacking players that they have. We'd get cut to pieces.

Spain is obviously awesome, but we've beaten them recently, so i have to put them closer to the top of the list as a result.

edited: why in the world did i think Ribery was German for a second?

 
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Nice, although I was starting to really like the potential to be in the same group as Brazil, Spain or Germany. I think justice was done, however.

Prediction:

1. Netherlands

2. United States

3. Paraguay

4. France

 
I'm sticking with the US ending up in Spain's group. But apart from that, I'm saying the football gods smile on the US time this time around:

Spain

US

Chile

Slovenia

Not a pushover group by any means, but certainly not a Group of Death.

(I'm sure I just jinxed things - hello Brazil, Ivory Coast and Portugal)

 
Some odds now that the pots are settled.

Concacaf, Asian, and Oceania: 12.5% chance of being in each pot.

"Pot 2" European teams: 12.5% chance of being in each pot.

Chile/Paraguay/Uruguay: 33.33% chance of being in with South Africa, 13.33% chance of being in with each of England, Netherlands, Italy, Germany, Spain

African teams: 20% chance of being in with Brazil, 20% chance of being in with Argentina. 12% chance of being in with each of England, Netherlands, Italy, Germany, Spain

---------------------------

As an aside, it seems probable if Uruguay had lost to Costa Rica that they would've probably just kicked New Zealand into the pot with the African and 2 remaining South American teams.

Btw, just for fun, here's the percentage breakdown if Concacaf were put in the pot with the African teams. Personally I think it seems more balanced and allows for more possibilities. (Okay and it would help us a bit as well probably)

Concacaf (if they were in a pot with Africa): 33.33% chance of being in with South Africa, 9.52% chance of being in with each of the other 7 seeds.

Africa (if there were in a pot with Concacaf): 14.29% chacnce of being with each of the 7 seeds aside from South Africa

Chile/Paraguay/Uruguay (if in the pot with Asia/OFC): 16.67% chance of being with each of the 6 non-South American seeds.

Asia/OFC: 16.67% chance of being in with Brazil, 16.67% chance of being in with Argentina, 11.11% chance of being in with each of the other 6 seeds.

------------------------------

Turning to the October rankings, which were the standard that was used so as to not maximize the uproar over France's participation (let's be real for a second, absent Henry's handball they would've definitely been seeded, probably at the expense of Holland, though possibly at the expense of England). I also think this will be the only time the seedings will be determined purely by rankings (until of course it suits FIFA 20 years from now to do so again).

Now while the FIFA rankings have a certain degree of bogosity to them they probably are the only real objective measure that could be applied in terms of pondering whether a draw gives a given team a "fair" shot or not.

Here's the 32 qualifying teams in order, based on the October ratings. Think of this as "if we didn't care about geography at all, what would the pots look like". There's a break line between each group of 8. If the US is drawn with one team in each of clumps 1, 3, and 4, I would consider it to be a reasonable shot.

Rank in Tourney, Fifa Rank) Country:

1, 1) Brazil

2, 2) Spain

3, 3) Netherlands

4, 4) Italy

5, 5) Germany

6, 6) Argentina

7, 7) England

8, 9) France

---------------------------------------

9, 10) Portugal

10, 11) USA

11, 13) Switzerland

12, 14) Cameroon

13, 16) Greece

14, 17) Chile

15, 18) Mexico

16, 19) Cote D'Ivoire

----------------------------------------

17, 20) Serbia

18, 21) Paraguay

19, 24) Australia

20, 25) Uruguay

21, 27) Denmark

22, 29) Algeria

23, 32) Nigeria

24, 33) Slovakia

-----------------------------------------

25, 35) Honduras

26, 38) Ghana

27, 40) Japan

28, 48) South Korea

29, 49) Slovenia

30, 83) New Zealand

31, 85) South Africa

32, 91) North Korea

-----------------------------------------

FIFA can (barely) provide some oddball justification for lumping us with the weaker Asian teams since the sum of the ranking of Concacaf teams is 64, while the sum of the ranking of the 3 non-seeded South American teams is 63.

I'll try and crunch some funky numbers later on, but it's impossible for us to be in a group with 5 of the 8 lowest ranked teams right off the bat :goodposting:

Being away from Asian would've significantly improved our prospects, it is pretty clear.

-QG

 
FIFA is very political. Always has been. They are out to promote the sport and do things that are grossly unfair every day to do so.

1) FIFA determines who they want seeded and then build a formula to back into it. This is why the formula changes each time. They have all but admitted this.

2) They moved France from a seed because the world wants to see France not get an easy path to advance. The furor will only build if France drew a cupcake group. Now that hardly seems possible (unless they draw RSA).

3) They want Africa, particularly RSA, to do well this world cup. It is good for the sport. They did the same thing in Asia in 02.

4) The US market is growing by leaps and bounds and we have a lot of money. This is a business and FIFA is not out to screw us. They very much want to see us do well but at the moment, this clashes a little with the above.

 
Just for the fun of it, some number crunching on the pots based on the 11/20 FIFA rankings and other ;) stuff I track.

Pot 1 - Average rank is 14.88 (1,2,3,4,6,8,9,86) take South Africa out and the average is 4.71

Pot 2 - Average rank is 43.00 (14,15,21,38,43,52,77,84)

Pot 3 - Average rank is 22.50 (11,16,17,19,22,28,30,37)

Pot 4 - Average rank is 19.38 (5,7,12,18,20,26,33,34)

In qualifying the combined teams records are:

Pot 1 53-17-12 184:61 average score 2.63-0.87

Pot 2 72-27-21 209:84 average score 2.11-0.85

Pot 3 69-25-23 195-85 average score 2.07-0.90

Pot 4 54-21-13 158:62 average score 2.11-0.83

Teams undefeated during qualifying:

Pot 1

Spain 10-0-0 28:5

Netherlands 8-0-0 17:2

Italy 7-3-0 18:7

Germany 8-2-0 26:5

Pot 2

Korea Republic 7-7-0 22:7

Pot 3

Ivory Coast 8-4-0 29:6

Nigeria 9-3-0 20:4

Most games played to qualify was 20 by Uruguay

Fewest games played to qualify was 8 by Netherlands and New Zealand (Excluding South Africa)

Most goals scored during qualifying was USA with 42

Fewest goals scored during qualifying was New Zealand with 15 (I excluded South Africa with 5 since they didn't have to qualify, but some of their games were actual qualifyers)

Most goals allowed during qualifying was Chile with 22

Fewest goals allowed during qualifying was Netherlands with 2

 
That's kinda surprising about the USA leading in goals, since that's not what we're really known for historically.

Where do they rank in terms of Goals-Per-Game out of the 32?

-QG

 
prefontaine said:
3) They want Africa, particularly RSA, to do well this world cup. It is good for the sport. They did the same thing in Asia in 02.
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I was thinking about this on the drive home today.....when's the last time the host nation didn't make the knockout stages?- Germany was a lock in 06- Both South Korea AND Japan made it in 02. While South Korea was a good team they've never advanced past the first round otherwise. Japan also has never made the round of 16 other than 2002.- France in 98 may seem like a lock on paper, especially seeing as how they won in 1998, but they didn't even qualify in EITHER 1990 or 1994.- The USA advanced out of the group stage in 1994, despite not making a World Cup in 40 years prior to 1990, and recording 0 points in the group stage 1990- 1990: Italy is Italy :thumbup:Mexico also qualified in 1986. Before that, it was a 4-team knockout round, so I'm not going to bother looking.I know that it's easy to look at those results and think that "well, Germany/France/Italy/Mexico were locks", but when the Cup has been held in traditionally non-power countries like Japan, South Korea, or the US, or in countries that had been slacking in recent Cup berths (France '98. It should be noted that France didn't qualify for Euro 88, didn't advance past the 1st round in 92, but did get to the semis in 96, so it's not like they were completely inept), the host teams still managed to advance.I'm not saying FIFA rigs the games or anything, but home field (home country?) advantage is a strange thing in the world of soccer. As much as South Africa looks like the cake draw on paper, I'd be mildly surprised if they didn't advance - simply because they're the host nation. If they get in a weak group (which they will), score a shock win over someone and pick up a draw/win against the "group minnow", they could get through on 4/6 points.
 
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Steve Tasker said:
I was thinking about this on the drive home today.....when's the last time the host nation didn't make the knockout stages?
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I'm not 100% certain but I don't there has ever been a host that didn't advance. I think both the US in 94 and Spain in 82 advanced in the old system as top 3rd place group finishers.
 
I could really care less about the draws. You play who you play, who cares.

What FIFA really needs to concentrate on is finding a way to ban those ####### horns.

 
QuizGuy66 said:
That's kinda surprising about the USA leading in goals, since that's not what we're really known for historically.Where do they rank in terms of Goals-Per-Game out of the 32?-QG
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Goals per game, for and against, and the goal difference per game.
Code: 
Team			GF	  GA	  Diff  England		 3.40	0.60	2.80Germany		 2.60	0.50	2.10Spain		   2.50	0.50	2.00Ivory Coast	 2.42	0.50	1.92USA			 2.33	0.89	1.44Serbia		  2.20	0.80	1.40Slovakia		2.20	1.00	1.20Netherland	  2.13	0.25	1.88Mexico		  2.00	1.00	1.00Cameroon		1.92	0.33	1.58New Zealand	 1.88	0.63	1.25Brazil		  1.83	0.61	1.22Italy		   1.80	0.70	1.10Switzerland	 1.80	0.80	1.00Honduras		1.78	1.00	0.78Chile		   1.78	1.22	0.56Greece		  1.75	0.83	0.92Nigeria		 1.67	0.33	1.33Ghana		   1.67	0.33	1.33France		  1.67	0.83	0.83Slovenia		1.67	0.50	1.17Japan		   1.64	0.64	1.00Denmark		 1.60	0.50	1.10Portugal		1.58	0.42	1.17Korea Republic  1.57	0.50	1.07Uruguay		 1.50	1.05	0.45Australia	   1.36	0.29	1.07Paraguay		1.33	0.89	0.44Algeria		 1.31	0.62	0.69Argentina	   1.28	1.11	0.17Korea DPR	   1.25	0.44	0.81South Africa	0.83	0.83	0.00
 
Mjolnirs said:
guru_007 said:
I could really care less about the draws. You play who you play, who cares.What FIFA really needs to concentrate on is finding a way to ban those ####### horns.
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Not going to happen.
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Last I read was that the ####### horns were going to be banned for all games not including RSA. Seriously a whole month of that #### and I will have a need to kill that will most likely exceed my ability to contain.
 
Mjolnirs said:
QuizGuy66 said:
That's kinda surprising about the USA leading in goals, since that's not what we're really known for historically.Where do they rank in terms of Goals-Per-Game out of the 32?-QG
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Goals per game, for and against, and the goal difference per game.
Code: 
Team			GF	  GA	  Diff  England		 3.40	0.60	2.80Germany		 2.60	0.50	2.10Spain		   2.50	0.50	2.00Ivory Coast	 2.42	0.50	1.92USA			 2.33	0.89	1.44Serbia		  2.20	0.80	1.40Slovakia		2.20	1.00	1.20Netherland	  2.13	0.25	1.88Mexico		  2.00	1.00	1.00Cameroon		1.92	0.33	1.58New Zealand	 1.88	0.63	1.25Brazil		  1.83	0.61	1.22Italy		   1.80	0.70	1.10Switzerland	 1.80	0.80	1.00Honduras		1.78	1.00	0.78Chile		   1.78	1.22	0.56Greece		  1.75	0.83	0.92Nigeria		 1.67	0.33	1.33Ghana		   1.67	0.33	1.33France		  1.67	0.83	0.83Slovenia		1.67	0.50	1.17Japan		   1.64	0.64	1.00Denmark		 1.60	0.50	1.10Portugal		1.58	0.42	1.17Korea Republic  1.57	0.50	1.07Uruguay		 1.50	1.05	0.45Australia	   1.36	0.29	1.07Paraguay		1.33	0.89	0.44Algeria		 1.31	0.62	0.69Argentina	   1.28	1.11	0.17Korea DPR	   1.25	0.44	0.81South Africa	0.83	0.83	0.00
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Now that's service :) :unsure: The numbers for the South American team are kind of funny - I thought they were supposed to play the beautiful game but 3 of the 7 lowest scoring teams are from South America. Pretty funny and somewhat stunning to see Argentina's goal differential as well.Crunched some numbers, and it's pretty amazing how many possible combinations there are for draw results - many more than folks might suspect.Without assigning the group letters, using the draw method allocated, there are 11,705,057,280,000 possible outcomes for the draw in terms of the composition of the groups.When you factor in the assigning of the group letters above, that actually gives 5040 possible combinations (South Africa is automatically in Group A) and mutliplying by the above gives you 58,993,488,691,200,000 such combinations.Figuring that they will assign all the seeds as team number 1 in their group and randomly assign positions 2, 3, and 4 to the other 3 teams (irrespective of pot) leads to a mind-boggling 99,086,407,501,558,579,200,000 possible results for the World Cup Final Draw! :thumbup:One last stray thought (for now) that I forgot to bring up earlier, Brazil and Argentina kind of automatically get a tough deal in that they are guaranteed to face an African side in their group. It will be particularly interesting to see how this impacts the notorious slow-starting (and not exactly up to for) Albiceleste side.More math should I get the chance :) -QG
 
BTW guys the next WC ticketing draw is through US soccer. It's a $50 sign-up and the deadline is tomorrow. My crew got lots of tix this way for WC2006. I'll post this info in the WC tickets thread.

Also, it's likely that I'll have a few extra tix to the US games in SA. Let me know if any of you guys are interested in joining us.

 
The Z Machine said:
BTW guys the next WC ticketing draw is through US soccer. It's a $50 sign-up and the deadline is tomorrow. My crew got lots of tix this way for WC2006. I'll post this info in the WC tickets thread.



Also, it's likely that I'll have a few extra tix to the US games in SA. Let me know if any of you guys are interested in joining us.
Click to expand...
I want to go but can't commit right now. Keep me posted on any extra tickets.
 
Steve Tasker said:
The Z Machine said:
Sand said:
Ireland just made an official request to FIFA to be put in as the 33rd team in the WC. I don't know how in the world that would work, but it certainly does stir the pot.
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And Sepp laughed about it too. That was truly a lame attempt by IRE. They should have been awarded a rematch, but now they should give up.
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Disagree
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Agree with you, as an Irishman that whole request was :bag: Suck it up and move on (but kick the suitcase out of Henry next time).But it was pretty ordinary of Blatter to out it that way, could have been handled better.

 
Sebowski said:
The Z Machine said:
BTW guys the next WC ticketing draw is through US soccer. It's a $50 sign-up and the deadline is tomorrow. My crew got lots of tix this way for WC2006. I'll post this info in the WC tickets thread.



Also, it's likely that I'll have a few extra tix to the US games in SA. Let me know if any of you guys are interested in joining us.
Click to expand...
I want to go but can't commit right now. Keep me posted on any extra tickets.
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Me too :lol: -QG

 
Texas Football said:
Mjolnirs said:
guru_007 said:
I could really care less about the draws. You play who you play, who cares.What FIFA really needs to concentrate on is finding a way to ban those ####### horns.
Click to expand...
Not going to happen.
Click to expand...
Last I read was that the ####### horns were going to be banned for all games not including RSA. Seriously a whole month of that #### and I will have a need to kill that will most likely exceed my ability to contain.
Click to expand...
I don't mind the horns at all and enjoy seeing the passion of the South African fans throughout the game.
 
The Z Machine said:
BTW guys the next WC ticketing draw is through US soccer. It's a $50 sign-up and the deadline is tomorrow. My crew got lots of tix this way for WC2006. I'll post this info in the WC tickets thread.

Also, it's likely that I'll have a few extra tix to the US games in SA. Let me know if any of you guys are interested in joining us.
Click to expand...
Won't know my job start date for a few months but this may be something I can swing.
 
First time through:

Argentina, USA, Ivory Coast, Greece.

Second time:

Netherlands, USA, Algeria, France

Third time:

England, USA, Paraguay, Slovenia

What fun!

eta - PAGE 299!

 
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Intersting story from goal.com:

Jurgen Klinsmann Silent Over Liverpool Rumours German does nothing to dispel rumours of Anfield switch… Dec 2, 2009 1:10:59 PMJurgen Klinsmann insists that reports linking him with the manager's job at Liverpool are simply rumours, though he also maintains that he will have a new job after the World Cup and that his new post might not be in the Bundesliga.Reds co-owner Tom Hicks has admitted talking to the former Germany and Bayern Munich coach in the past after previous rumours linking the ex-Tottenham Hotspur striker with an Anfield switch.Current Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez signed a new five-year contract at the beginning of the current campaign, but many feel that his tenure may be reaching an end after the Reds' unconvincing form this season, including a premature exit from the Champions League.Klinnsman though was non-committal when asked about the reports."There are always rumours," he told Bild. "For us it is relatively clear. We will not embark on another adventure in the Bundesliga. After the World Cup, I will possibly be somewhere else."
Click to expand...
 
Anyone care to post their own 'predictions' on the draw for their respective fav team? See how close we get. Just an idea. :lol:

I'm gonna do one tonight for Holland and the USA. :goodposting:

 
Mjolnirs said:
Intersting story from goal.com:

Jurgen Klinsmann Silent Over Liverpool Rumours German does nothing to dispel rumours of Anfield switch… Dec 2, 2009 1:10:59 PMJurgen Klinsmann insists that reports linking him with the manager's job at Liverpool are simply rumours, though he also maintains that he will have a new job after the World Cup and that his new post might not be in the Bundesliga.Reds co-owner Tom Hicks has admitted talking to the former Germany and Bayern Munich coach in the past after previous rumours linking the ex-Tottenham Hotspur striker with an Anfield switch.Current Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez signed a new five-year contract at the beginning of the current campaign, but many feel that his tenure may be reaching an end after the Reds' unconvincing form this season, including a premature exit from the Champions League.Klinnsman though was non-committal when asked about the reports."There are always rumours," he told Bild. "For us it is relatively clear. We will not embark on another adventure in the Bundesliga. After the World Cup, I will possibly be somewhere else."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Didn't this cause some Hicks-Gillette friction in the past?I'm new to this, so I have a question. Are we allowed to have a second favorite team if it's in another league? If so, count me in for Barca. I'm a fan of the jerseys and they're fun to use on the XBOX.
 
I predict the US is screwed with an Italy, USA, Cameroon and Portugal draw while the French are gifted into South Africa's group with New Zeland and Chile. We always get screwed...

 
The Z Machine said:
BTW guys the next WC ticketing draw is through US soccer. It's a $50 sign-up and the deadline is tomorrow. My crew got lots of tix this way for WC2006. I'll post this info in the WC tickets thread.Also, it's likely that I'll have a few extra tix to the US games in SA. Let me know if any of you guys are interested in joining us.
Click to expand...
I'd love to, but I just can't commit to anything at the moment....that's why I backed out of ordering tickets in the first place...
 
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