How do you feel about Orton now? (1 Viewer)

[cvnpoka]

With a top defense for most of the season and plenty of weapons of offense, this team should be better than 8-7.

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season? I think Vegas had the over/under at 7.

well, after week 6, it was a given. also was a given that orton>>>cutler. this thread, like most cutler threads, shows the double standard and bias inherent when joe internet discusses. cutler has been absolutely villified for finishing 8-7 with the 2nd worst defense in the league and the 6th string rb, despite putting up 4500 yards. orton has the same record with decent rbs and a borderline top 5 defense yet ppl still cling to the silly notion that orton is "more of a winner."

 

[JJP]

With a top defense for most of the season and plenty of weapons of offense, this team should be better than 8-7.

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season? I think Vegas had the over/under at 7.

well, after week 6, it was a given. also was a given that orton>>>cutler. this thread, like most cutler threads, shows the double standard and bias inherent when joe internet discusses. cutler has been absolutely villified for finishing 8-7 with the 2nd worst defense in the league and the 6th string rb, despite putting up 4500 yards. orton has the same record with decent rbs and a borderline top 5 defense yet ppl still cling to the silly notion that orton is "more of a winner."

You are only looking at the Denver side of the equation. Chicago went 9-7 last year and is currently 5-9. While SB talk in the preseason was moronic, the LV over/under of 8 1/2 wins was more realistic. They still have to be considered a major disappointment.

 

[switz]

With a top defense for most of the season and plenty of weapons of offense, this team should be better than 8-7.

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season? I think Vegas had the over/under at 7.

well, after week 6, it was a given. also was a given that orton>>>cutler. this thread, like most cutler threads, shows the double standard and bias inherent when joe internet discusses. cutler has been absolutely villified for finishing 8-7 with the 2nd worst defense in the league and the 6th string rb, despite putting up 4500 yards. orton has the same record with decent rbs and a borderline top 5 defense yet ppl still cling to the silly notion that orton is "more of a winner."

Statistics don't really tell the whole story. Chicago has had a better defense than Denver for years. So I'm hard pressed to give Denver's D all the credit for the wins, or Chicago's D all the credit for the losses.Orton is a much better QB than people want to give him credit for being. Cutler is nowhere near as good a QB as people want him to be.The truth is somewhere in the middle. Orton does help the Broncos win more than Cutler helps the Bears win, that is the pure and simple truth. But neither are the sole reason for their teams success or failures.

 

[duckhook]

Orton is mediocre, but he is better than Cutler any way you slice it. Neither CHI nor DEN is better with Cutler than with Orton. Plus Denver got some picks. I'd say they won hands down in this trade.

QB rating: Orton 89.3 (#14) Cutler 71.1 (#22)

INTs: Cutler 25 That's 5 more than the 2 rookies, and 7 more than anyone else in the league. He is a worthless piece of trash.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

With a top defense for most of the season and plenty of weapons of offense, this team should be better than 8-7.

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season? I think Vegas had the over/under at 7.

Absolutely. I think it was 7 1/2. And the Bears O/U was 8 1/2. They are at 5 and there's no guarantee they beat Detroit in the season closer.The two number one picks are huge. Bears will be lousy for the next 3 years, minimum.

Lousy? Wanna bet?Offensive Skill positions are >26 years old(Cutler, Forte, Knox, Bennett, Olsen)Young First year starters- Chris Williams(24), Zach Bowman(25), Al Afalava(22)Young guys with potential that are developing and haven't contributed much- Jauron Gilbert(23), Henry Melton(23), Gaines Adams(26), DJ Moore(22), Juaquin Iglesias(22)Big Key is young and still developing...time and playing together will help emensly.One of the best ST's Units in the league- Maynard and Gould coming back are good....4 different returners have had TD's in the past few seasons(Hester, Manning, Knox, Bennett).Key Injuries....won't go real in-depth here because every team has injuries...however losing your defensive captain/leader in the first half of the first game is obviously not expected.....along with the SAM(Pisa).Coaching changes will happen.....this can only improve the bears as Ron Turner has proven at Illinois and Chicago that he is behind in the times and not a good play caller. Lovie hasn't resurrected the D as he thought would happen.So in the next few seasons they will be lousy....despite the young talent and coaching changes is a facetious statement.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

With a top defense for most of the season and plenty of weapons of offense, this team should be better than 8-7.

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season? I think Vegas had the over/under at 7.

Vegas was predicting them at 7 wins because they were supposed to have a bottom 3 defense this year. Them only winning 8 games in spite of the defense being 1000% better than the 7 win prediction thought they'd be says a lot about how bad the offense was.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

With a top defense for most of the season and plenty of weapons of offense, this team should be better than 8-7.

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season? I think Vegas had the over/under at 7.

well, after week 6, it was a given. also was a given that orton>>>cutler. this thread, like most cutler threads, shows the double standard and bias inherent when joe internet discusses. cutler has been absolutely villified for finishing 8-7 with the 2nd worst defense in the league and the 6th string rb, despite putting up 4500 yards. orton has the same record with decent rbs and a borderline top 5 defense yet ppl still cling to the silly notion that orton is "more of a winner."

Statistics don't really tell the whole story. Chicago has had a better defense than Denver for years. So I'm hard pressed to give Denver's D all the credit for the wins, or Chicago's D all the credit for the losses.Orton is a much better QB than people want to give him credit for being. Cutler is nowhere near as good a QB as people want him to be.

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Orton does help the Broncos win more than Cutler helps the Bears win, that is the pure and simple truth. But neither are the sole reason for their teams success or failures.

This is true, but everyone on Chicago has been worse this season than last. It's mostly Cutler, make no mistake about it, but other positions are playing worse than last year as well, especially the defense. Also keep in mind that the competition in Chicago's division improved drastically this year. Minnesota, Green Bay, and Detroit are all MUCH better teams this year than they were last year. That's 6 games right off the bat that are much tougher to steal wins in.Meanwhile cvnpoka makes a good point. Denver has only improved or stayed the same at basically every position outside of quarterback, yet stuck with the same record as a team. The receivers are the same. The line is the same. The running backs are better now. And of course, the defense is MUCH better now.

How would this year's Denver team have finished with last year's defense? 4-12? 3-13? Worse?

Denver's defense AVERAGED 28 points allowed last year. Denver's offense has scored more than 28 points only twice this entire season.

 

[switz]

How would this year's Denver team have finished with last year's defense? 4-12? 3-13? Worse?

Denver's defense AVERAGED 28 points allowed last year. Denver's offense has scored more than 28 points only twice this entire season.

How many of the "points allowed" came from Cutler turnovers?How much of the offense point totals this year stem from the QB, or the offensive scheme?

Why the cutoff at 28? Den has had two other games scoring 27, one scoring 26. Of course the knock on the offense this year is that they failed to score 20 points in 6 games, but then again last year with Cutler they failed to score 20 points in 7 games.

Oh, and BTW, they only scored 28+ 5 times last season as well. If you drop the cutoff to 26, both last year and this year the team had 5 games scoring 26+ points.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

How many of the "points allowed" came from Cutler turnovers?

This was looked at several times in the offseason when people were comparing Cutler's win/loss record. The majority of Cutler's turnovers last year (70%) came while they were already trailing when the defense had already given up a bunch of points. 40% came when already trailing by 2+ scores.

Why the cutoff at 28?

I thought I made that pretty clear. 28 is the number of points allowed per game by the Broncos' defense last year.If you would prefer to use the median to get rid of outliers, it only gets worse, as their median points allowed last year was 30. Yeah, you read that right, they gave up 30+ points EIGHT times last year.

 

[switz]

How many of the "points allowed" came from Cutler turnovers?

This was looked at several times in the offseason when people were comparing Cutler's win/loss record. The majority of Cutler's turnovers last year (70%) came while they were already trailing when the defense had already given up a bunch of points. 40% came when already trailing by 2+ scores.

Why the cutoff at 28?

I thought I made that pretty clear. 28 is the number of points allowed per game by the Broncos' defense last year.If you would prefer to use the median to get rid of outliers, it only gets worse, as their median points allowed last year was 30. Yeah, you read that right, they gave up 30+ points EIGHT times last year.

So the defense is the difference in wins, but Orton (based on offensive scoring) is a lateral swap for Cutler, got it. So basically, they made a lateral change at QB and acquired additional picks for that?

 

[MDSkinner]

So the defense is the difference in wins, but Orton (based on offensive scoring) is a lateral swap for Cutler, got it. So basically, they made a lateral change at QB and acquired additional picks for that?

I am one of those guys who likes Orton, but do you really think the offense has been as good this year with Orton as it was last year with Cutler? It does not look like a lateral change at QB to me, but the additional picks as of right now certainly make it look like a trade in favor of the Broncos but not because Orton has been as good as Cutler was for the Broncos.

 

[JJP]

Cutler's passing yardage totals last year are a little deceiving because the Broncos had cluster injuries at RB as bad as any team I've seen in 35 years of watching the NFL and they had little choice but to hoist up 600 passes.

 

[Buffaloes]

Cutler's passing yardage totals last year are a little deceiving because the Broncos had cluster injuries at RB as bad as any team I've seen in 35 years of watching the NFL and they had little choice but to hoist up 600 passes.

Yes and no. Denver changed their philosophy from the beginning of last year becoming a passing team whereas they had been more effective in years past when they used the running game to develop misdirection play action and bootlegs off of the pass. For whatever reason, they eschewed that philosophy for more of a spread it out 2007 Patriot offense before any of the RBs started going down.

 

[Sinn Fein]

So the defense is the difference in wins, but Orton (based on offensive scoring) is a lateral swap for Cutler, got it. So basically, they made a lateral change at QB and acquired additional picks for that?

I am one of those guys who likes Orton, but do you really think the offense has been as good this year with Orton as it was last year with Cutler? It does not look like a lateral change at QB to me, but the additional picks as of right now certainly make it look like a trade in favor of the Broncos but not because Orton has been as good as Cutler was for the Broncos.

Orton is a better NFL QB than Cutler.That does not make Orton an elite QB by any stretch. But, Denver is better with Orton at QB in this system than with Cutler. It would not shock me to see Denver use the Bears' 1st round pick on a QB this year, and groom him to take over for Orton in 2011. It really depends on how high the draft pick is - I can't see Denver wanting to pay "big" bucks to a QB, so if the pick is in the top-10 - I could see them going for a OL or DL

 

[switz]

So the defense is the difference in wins, but Orton (based on offensive scoring) is a lateral swap for Cutler, got it. So basically, they made a lateral change at QB and acquired additional picks for that?

I am one of those guys who likes Orton, but do you really think the offense has been as good this year with Orton as it was last year with Cutler? It does not look like a lateral change at QB to me, but the additional picks as of right now certainly make it look like a trade in favor of the Broncos but not because Orton has been as good as Cutler was for the Broncos.

I think Orton was an improvement. Cutler put up gaudy numbers, but so did Jeff George. Don't let the numbers convince you Cutler is a good QB, he's not. He's a physical talent, but he's not a great QB, he lacks so many intangibles (intelligence, leadership, maturity, modesty) that make a QB great. He's almost the opposite of Orton. Orton has NFL physical traits, just not at the upper level of NFL QBs, but he has all the intangibles that Cutler lacks.Additionally, the numbers are frequently a product of the offensive system, not necessarily the player. And the systems changed drastically from when Cutler was there to now. The reason they got rid of Cutler is they didn't think he could play within their system. So Orton's not matching Cutler's passing numbers in Denver is not because Orton couldn't, as much as it is the offensive system isn't designed to throw 50 times per game.

 

[crewmember]

Rex Grossman is better than both these guys. Could have won at least the same number of games with either teams.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Lousy? Wanna bet?

Offensive Skill positions are >26 years old(Cutler, Forte, Knox, Bennett, Olsen)

Young First year starters- Chris Williams(24), Zach Bowman(25), Al Afalava(22)

Young guys with potential that are developing and haven't contributed much- Jauron Gilbert(23), Henry Melton(23), Gaines Adams(26), DJ Moore(22), Juaquin Iglesias(22)

Big Key is young and still developing...

I thought the big key was haven't contributed much.

 

[CaptainHook]

With a top defense for most of the season and plenty of weapons of offense, this team should be better than 8-7.

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season? I think Vegas had the over/under at 7.

Absolutely. I think it was 7 1/2. And the Bears O/U was 8 1/2. They are at 5 and there's no guarantee they beat Detroit in the season closer.The two number one picks are huge. Bears will be lousy for the next 3 years, minimum.

Lousy? Wanna bet?Offensive Skill positions are >26 years old(Cutler, Forte, Knox, Bennett, Olsen)Young First year starters- Chris Williams(24), Zach Bowman(25), Al Afalava(22)Young guys with potential that are developing and haven't contributed much- Jauron Gilbert(23), Henry Melton(23), Gaines Adams(26), DJ Moore(22), Juaquin Iglesias(22)Big Key is young and still developing...time and playing together will help emensly.One of the best ST's Units in the league- Maynard and Gould coming back are good....4 different returners have had TD's in the past few seasons(Hester, Manning, Knox, Bennett).Key Injuries....won't go real in-depth here because every team has injuries...however losing your defensive captain/leader in the first half of the first game is obviously not expected.....along with the SAM(Pisa).Coaching changes will happen.....this can only improve the bears as Ron Turner has proven at Illinois and Chicago that he is behind in the times and not a good play caller. Lovie hasn't resurrected the D as he thought would happen.So in the next few seasons they will be lousy....despite the young talent and coaching changes is a facetious statement.

this post is absolutely hilarious coming from a person named "benson_will_lead_the_way"

 

[flapgreen]

What's up

 

[CaptainHook]

a vintage cutler-esque game out of orton

i guess we can agree that he woulda put up monster yardage numbers had he been asked to throw as often as cutler was

 

[switz]

What's up

Not a clue - complete meltdown today? Even the best QBs have 3 INT days. I think Orton still has fewer INTs on the season than Cutler does.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

So the Broncos finished 1 game better than the Bears with a far superior defense, far superior offensive line, far superior receivers, and a superior running game.

 

[switz]

So the Broncos finished 1 game better than the Bears with a far superior defense, far superior offensive line, far superior receivers, and a superior running game.

So, at worst Cutler for Orton was a lateral swap, and then Den got 2 firsts on top of it.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

So the Broncos finished 1 game better than the Bears with a far superior defense, far superior offensive line, far superior receivers, and a superior running game.

So, at worst Cutler for Orton was a lateral swap, and then Den got 2 firsts on top of it.

So wait, you think a superior defense, offensive line, receivers, and running game is worth 1 game?Ok, you're certainly entitled to your own opinion but I don't think that's one that would be shared by many.Two teams that are equal at QB with one being far superior at all those other places would finish much further than 1 game apart.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Lousy? Wanna bet?

Offensive Skill positions are >26 years old(Cutler, Forte, Knox, Bennett, Olsen)

Young First year starters- Chris Williams(24), Zach Bowman(25), Al Afalava(22)

Young guys with potential that are developing and haven't contributed much- Jauron Gilbert(23), Henry Melton(23), Gaines Adams(26), DJ Moore(22), Juaquin Iglesias(22)

Big Key is young and still developing...

I thought the big key was haven't contributed much.

Considering 4 are rookies?

 

[whole-show]

I'm sorry but this was not completely Ortons fault He did not have his top 3 receivers. I blame this one more on mcDaniels this guy really seems like a complete egotistical idiot. Your season is on the line and you sit 2 of your top receivers.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season? I think Vegas had the over/under at 7.

Absolutely. I think it was 7 1/2. And the Bears O/U was 8 1/2. They are at 5 and there's no guarantee they beat Detroit in the season closer.The two number one picks are huge. Bears will be lousy for the next 3 years, minimum.

Lousy? Wanna bet?Offensive Skill positions are >26 years old(Cutler, Forte, Knox, Bennett, Olsen)Young First year starters- Chris Williams(24), Zach Bowman(25), Al Afalava(22)Young guys with potential that are developing and haven't contributed much- Jauron Gilbert(23), Henry Melton(23), Gaines Adams(26), DJ Moore(22), Juaquin Iglesias(22)Big Key is young and still developing...time and playing together will help emensly.One of the best ST's Units in the league- Maynard and Gould coming back are good....4 different returners have had TD's in the past few seasons(Hester, Manning, Knox, Bennett).Key Injuries....won't go real in-depth here because every team has injuries...however losing your defensive captain/leader in the first half of the first game is obviously not expected.....along with the SAM(Pisa).Coaching changes will happen.....this can only improve the bears as Ron Turner has proven at Illinois and Chicago that he is behind in the times and not a good play caller. Lovie hasn't resurrected the D as he thought would happen.So in the next few seasons they will be lousy....despite the young talent and coaching changes is a facetious statement.

this post is absolutely hilarious coming from a person named "benson_will_lead_the_way"

I think it's hilarious that he played up to his potential this year to put it in your faces.I also think it's hilarious that I made the post above before the Bears beat the Vikings and then the Lions to finish on a high note. Is 7-9 lousy?

 

[flapgreen]

What's up

Not a clue - complete meltdown today? Even the best QBs have 3 INT days. I think Orton still has fewer INTs on the season than Cutler does.

good info

 

[flapgreen]

I'm sorry but this was not completely Ortons fault He did not have his top 3 receivers. I blame this one more on mcDaniels this guy really seems like a complete egotistical idiot. Your season is on the line and you sit 2 of your top receivers.

Poor Orton. Throwing 3ints and 2 pick 6's during the last game ti make the playoffs and you lay an egg. Blame it on The Rain!

 

[flapgreen]

So the Broncos finished 1 game better than the Bears with a far superior defense, far superior offensive line, far superior receivers, and a superior running game.

Yep. With that list, you guys must be an entire 6 games ahead of us and contending for the SB....oh wait. you aren't. sorry bout that

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

Orton is an alright QB. He seems like he has it upstairs, but he doesn't have the ability to make the throws. Probably the exact opposite of Jay Cutler.

 

[Ozymandias]

Denver went 2-8 over the last 10 games.

Hmmmm...

 

[whole-show]

Denver went 2-8 over the last 10 games. Hmmmm...

Yep thanks to McDaniels.

 

[CaptainHook]

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season? I think Vegas had the over/under at 7.

Absolutely. I think it was 7 1/2. And the Bears O/U was 8 1/2. They are at 5 and there's no guarantee they beat Detroit in the season closer.The two number one picks are huge. Bears will be lousy for the next 3 years, minimum.

Lousy? Wanna bet?Offensive Skill positions are >26 years old(Cutler, Forte, Knox, Bennett, Olsen)Young First year starters- Chris Williams(24), Zach Bowman(25), Al Afalava(22)Young guys with potential that are developing and haven't contributed much- Jauron Gilbert(23), Henry Melton(23), Gaines Adams(26), DJ Moore(22), Juaquin Iglesias(22)Big Key is young and still developing...time and playing together will help emensly.One of the best ST's Units in the league- Maynard and Gould coming back are good....4 different returners have had TD's in the past few seasons(Hester, Manning, Knox, Bennett).Key Injuries....won't go real in-depth here because every team has injuries...however losing your defensive captain/leader in the first half of the first game is obviously not expected.....along with the SAM(Pisa).Coaching changes will happen.....this can only improve the bears as Ron Turner has proven at Illinois and Chicago that he is behind in the times and not a good play caller. Lovie hasn't resurrected the D as he thought would happen.So in the next few seasons they will be lousy....despite the young talent and coaching changes is a facetious statement.

this post is absolutely hilarious coming from a person named "benson_will_lead_the_way"

I think it's hilarious that he played up to his potential this year to put it in your faces.I also think it's hilarious that I made the post above before the Bears beat the Vikings and then the Lions to finish on a high note. Is 7-9 lousy?

Just pointing out your history of optimism

 

[Ghost Rider]

So the Broncos finished 1 game better than the Bears with a far superior defense, far superior offensive line, far superior receivers, and a superior running game.

Yep. And if not for that ridiculous play against the Bengals, they would have had the same record. Cutler definitely struggled way too much at times this year, but it should be obvious now that he is the better QB, and has a much greater upside. Orton's upside is severely limited.

 

[destro]

Cutler definitely struggled way too much at times this year, but it should be obvious now that he is the better QB, and has a much greater upside.

You're correct. But it should be obvious... now? It should have been obvious before the season, during the season, after the season, and everything in between. I'm not trying to pick on you, Ghost Rider, I just don't get how this kind of information was ever in doubt by this forum, in general.Yet it was, because on the this forum, you have so many people who are so desperate to separate themselves from the pack with "shark moves," going against the grain to prove how smart they are, that the obvious sometimes gets lost in the shuffle.

If the Broncos aren't looking to replace Orton this offseason, then they will be doomed to mediocrity again next season. He's a good backup, but as a starter, he is mediocre, at best. He had about as good of a supporting cast as you could hope for this year, and they still failed to make the playoffs. Barring a historic-type defensive performance by the Broncos, a QB like Orton is simply not enough.

 

[benson_will_lead_the_way]

Absolutely. I think it was 7 1/2. And the Bears O/U was 8 1/2. They are at 5 and there's no guarantee they beat Detroit in the season closer.The two number one picks are huge. Bears will be lousy for the next 3 years, minimum.

Lousy? Wanna bet?Offensive Skill positions are >26 years old(Cutler, Forte, Knox, Bennett, Olsen)Young First year starters- Chris Williams(24), Zach Bowman(25), Al Afalava(22)Young guys with potential that are developing and haven't contributed much- Jauron Gilbert(23), Henry Melton(23), Gaines Adams(26), DJ Moore(22), Juaquin Iglesias(22)Big Key is young and still developing...time and playing together will help emensly.One of the best ST's Units in the league- Maynard and Gould coming back are good....4 different returners have had TD's in the past few seasons(Hester, Manning, Knox, Bennett).Key Injuries....won't go real in-depth here because every team has injuries...however losing your defensive captain/leader in the first half of the first game is obviously not expected.....along with the SAM(Pisa).Coaching changes will happen.....this can only improve the bears as Ron Turner has proven at Illinois and Chicago that he is behind in the times and not a good play caller. Lovie hasn't resurrected the D as he thought would happen.So in the next few seasons they will be lousy....despite the young talent and coaching changes is a facetious statement.

this post is absolutely hilarious coming from a person named "benson_will_lead_the_way"

I think it's hilarious that he played up to his potential this year to put it in your faces.I also think it's hilarious that I made the post above before the Bears beat the Vikings and then the Lions to finish on a high note. Is 7-9 lousy?

Just pointing out your history of optimism

Or proving that your a tool that looks for one liners in the shark pool to make themselves feel better.

 

[SmoovySmoov]

switz STILL bagging on Cutler? Check.

He diddled your girlfriend, didn't he?

 

[chook]

Denver went 2-8 over the last 10 games. Hmmmm...

Yep thanks to McDaniels.

Love how Cutler haters won't accept this excuse though.

 

[greenroom]

Denver went 2-8 over the last 10 games. Hmmmm...

Yep thanks to McDaniels.

Love how Cutler haters won't accept this excuse though.

So how is it on McDaniels for the last 10 games?? Look I understand the whole benching Marshall and Scheffler and the bad taste it left on the season. But if you would of told me that at the beginning of the season Denver would of been 8-8 the same record that they had last year with Cutler. Everyone would of said I was crazy.Does McDaniels need to get his players in there sure, but he can coach and when they were winning he was great. The problem was when they lost they could not recover. Which hopefully will be changed in the offseason. I do think Marshall and Scheffler will be gone and will be interesting to see who is brought in to replace them.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Cutler definitely struggled way too much at times this year, but it should be obvious now that he is the better QB, and has a much greater upside.

You're correct. But it should be obvious... now? It should have been obvious before the season, during the season, after the season, and everything in between. I'm not trying to pick on you, Ghost Rider, I just don't get how this kind of information was ever in doubt by this forum, in general.Yet it was, because on the this forum, you have so many people who are so desperate to separate themselves from the pack with "shark moves," going against the grain to prove how smart they are, that the obvious sometimes gets lost in the shuffle.

 

[mbuehner]

I'd love to be able to bag on Orton right now, but he threw for 3800 yards 21td 12ints this season. That's a really nice season. Denver should be thrilled. I still think Cutler will help the Bears a huge amount and that Orton on the Bears this season would have been an even bigger disaster. The trade could still end up being a win/win if Cutler continues to right the ship and gets some help (any help).

edit- and as for yesterday, asking Orton to throw the ball 56 times is just not a good idea. He threw for 431 yards even with the 3 ints. But thats just not the kind of position he is going to thrive in.

 

[Buffaloes]

Yeah, No idea what is going on with the Denver offense now. I will say that I think Orton is what Denver fans expected. Good not great. Denver got a decent return for Cutler, who with a supporting cast, should do fine in Chicago too. Problem for Denver is, it looks like McDaniels is dismantling the young offense Shanahan had built in Denver.

 

[fatness]

Denver went 2-8 over the last 10 games. Hmmmm...

Reminds me of Zorn's first year.

 

[flapgreen]

So the defense is the difference in wins, but Orton (based on offensive scoring) is a lateral swap for Cutler, got it. So basically, they made a lateral change at QB and acquired additional picks for that?

I am one of those guys who likes Orton, but do you really think the offense has been as good this year with Orton as it was last year with Cutler? It does not look like a lateral change at QB to me, but the additional picks as of right now certainly make it look like a trade in favor of the Broncos but not because Orton has been as good as Cutler was for the Broncos.

I think Orton was an improvement. Cutler put up gaudy numbers, but so did Jeff George. Don't let the numbers convince you Cutler is a good QB, he's not. He's a physical talent, but he's not a great QB, he lacks so many intangibles (intelligence, leadership, maturity, modesty) that make a QB great. He's almost the opposite of Orton. Orton has NFL physical traits, just not at the upper level of NFL QBs, but he has all the intangibles that Cutler lacks.Additionally, the numbers are frequently a product of the offensive system, not necessarily the player. And the systems changed drastically from when Cutler was there to now. The reason they got rid of Cutler is they didn't think he could play within their system. So Orton's not matching Cutler's passing numbers in Denver is not because Orton couldn't, as much as it is the offensive system isn't designed to throw 50 times per game.

Nice work here. Orton owning it these days

 

[CaptainHook]

Anyone willing to change their opinion on Orton yet?

 

[PizzaDeliveryGuy]

FullOn ManCrush

 

[switz]

switz STILL bagging on Cutler? Check.He diddled your girlfriend, didn't he?

No, he just still is overrated.By the way, whoever bumped this thread Great re-read!! Orton is so much better than people want to admit, and Cutler is NOT the savior people wanted him to be.

 

[D'OHtis]

Anyone willing to change their opinion on Orton yet?

Still love the guy. Improves each and every year. He's a perfect fit in that system. In the few good decisions McDaniels has made, his addition tops the list. Funny thing is he (the 'throw in') very well could end up as the best QB in the whole Cutler/Cassel KC/Den/Chicago ordeal 2 offseasons ago.Would love to have the guy in Arizona. Maybe they'll be foolish enough to deal him when they decide to turn to Tebow.

 

[flapgreen]