How do you feel about Orton now? (1 Viewer)

[Kuz]

Very happy for Orton. He won many games for us too...wish him all the best. But I will make that Cutler trade every single day. Orton has a very good OL, very good run game, very good weapons at Wr and TE and a very good D....that does make it easier to win with.

Oh right... those important pieces... that most teams fill in with their high draft picks...

Funny, last year the Bears had just as many wins at this point in the season with Orton at QB. But the Broncos were not winning as much with Culter at QB.Last year it was Denver's D to blame, now it's Cutler doesn't have offensive weapons.

I know you're a big Orton guy & I will admit he's played well. Denver looks great but I hope you see that Mike Nolan has made a huge difference on Defense compared to last year.

There were two special teams touchdowns and the Denver defense was incredible after the first quarter. Orton had very little to do with the win last night. He's been okay but why proclaim him a "winner" after a game in which he wasn't much of a factor? He's not turning it over and is making the short passing game work. That fits this type of team. But Denver is winning games because their defense has been amazing.

Not sure if this was meant for me or Switz.. as I agree with you. The Defense this year is nothing like the crap they sent out last year...

 

[hephner]

Very happy for Orton. He won many games for us too...wish him all the best. But I will make that Cutler trade every single day. Orton has a very good OL, very good run game, very good weapons at Wr and TE and a very good D....that does make it easier to win with.

Oh right... those important pieces... that most teams fill in with their high draft picks...

Funny, last year the Bears had just as many wins at this point in the season with Orton at QB. But the Broncos were not winning as much with Culter at QB.Last year it was Denver's D to blame, now it's Cutler doesn't have offensive weapons.

I know you're a big Orton guy & I will admit he's played well. Denver looks great but I hope you see that Mike Nolan has made a huge difference on Defense compared to last year.

^^^This.The defensive turnaround in Denver is why they're 6-0 right now. The offense just needs to do enough to win, like last night. Orton is a solid QB. He takes the high percentage throws and avoids mistakes by checking down, and does it very well. And he gets the ball in the hands of a playmaker like Marshall enough to utilize his run after catch ability. In other words, he's a perfect fit for what McDaniels and the Broncos want to do right now. But the true test will be come playoff time or in a game with a team like the Colts who will be able to score on that defense. If Denver is down by more than a score, I don't see Orton being able to win in a "shootout". That's just not where he excels. As for Cutler, he's unquestionably the more talented QB, but he's just not making good decisions with the ball all the time. He's been far too risky, especially in the red zone. I will say however, that with the terrible o-line and anemic running game, the Bears know that they have little chance of punching it in for a rushing TD right now, so Cutler's trying to force the issue too much in the passing game. Cutler is a high risk high/reward player. I think most that have watched the Bears play their games this year would agree that without Cutler, the Bears wouldn't even have been in a few of those games, because they cannot run the ball AT ALL. They're using their quick receivers effectively with bubble screens and short routes to essentially replace the non-existent running game. And Cutler has shown the ability to build sustained drives through the passing game or stretch the field with deeper routes, and has the ability to bring them back from a deficit or carry them in a shootout. But that said, he's been too aggressive and careless with his throws at times and it has cost them. So a mixed bag for sure. But over time, if he can develop more discipline, he has far more upside than Orton.And on the point of the Bears "not having enough playmakers" for Cutler. I am one Bears fan that totally disagrees with that. The receivers have shown plenty capable. They are making tough catches in traffic and are building more chemistry with Cutler. Obviously, they don't have a difference maker like Marshall, but few teams do. And we know Forte can definitely produce in the right circumstances. But those circumstances just aren't there for him right now with the o-line underperforming. And that's the biggest problem the Bears have right now.These two are completely different QBs, and I don't see why everyone feels the need to compare them all the time. There's no need to apply the "if Team A still had Player X, they'd be far better", etc. There's enough uncertainty, parity, and sometimes just pure chance in the NFL as is, let alone when you start applying hypotheticals all the time. For example, you could look at the Broncos and say if not for the fluke play vs the Bengals, and two plays by Brandon Marshall (the huge run after catch vs Dallas, and the little talked about play where he broke up a would-be interception in the endzone shortly before the game-winning FG vs. the Pats), they could be 3-3 right now. But you can't apply hypotheticals like that to the NFL, because you could probably pick 10 or 20 plays a game that could have gone the other way, and it just leads to more and more speculation.

 

[switz]

There were two special teams touchdowns and the Denver defense was incredible after the first quarter. Orton had very little to do with the win last night. He's been okay but why proclaim him a "winner" after a game in which he wasn't much of a factor? He's not turning it over and is making the short passing game work. That fits this type of team. But Denver is winning games because their defense has been amazing.

Not sure if this was meant for me or Switz.. as I agree with you. The Defense this year is nothing like the crap they sent out last year...

I agree the defense has been 100% improved this year compared to last, and that they are in games because of their defense. That's the style of team McDaniels wants, and it's what won the Pats their recent SBs. My point was that at the same point last season and this, the Bears had the same number of wins - Orton or Cutler. Cutler isn't winning the Bears more games, and Orton wasn't costing the Bears games.I'm just tired of all the people who proclaimed Cutler the savior finding new excuse for why the Bears can't win more, and those saying Orton was the suck finding more reasons why he wasn't part of the win. He didn't get to 27-12 by being lucky, he made the plays needed to win.

 

[Ghost Rider]

If Denver is down by more than a score, I don't see Orton being able to win in a "shootout". That's just not where he excels.

FYI, in both the Dallas and New England games, the Broncos trailed by 10 points, and Orton brought them back to win. Of course, the defense shut the offenses completely down in both second halves, allowing Orton and the offense time to whittle away and eventually tie the game, before winning it. Overall, though, like has been said, defense is the biggest reason for the Broncos 6-0 start.

 

[nyy45]

people hated on Orton and thought he could succeed in Denver but the fact of the matter is that he had no weapons in Chicago, I thought this was easy to see. He put up respectable numbers last year with nobody to throw to and he gets traded to Denver for Cutler and Cutler is the guy everyone was talking about while Orton flew under the radar, when in fact he was the one getting the lift, not Cutler.

 

[DoubleG]

My point was that at the same point last season and this, the Bears had the same number of wins - Orton or Cutler. Cutler isn't winning the Bears more games, and Orton wasn't costing the Bears games.

Urlacher didn't get hurt in the first game of the season last year. The Bears weren't on their 3rd starting MLB by week 3 last year. In those first 6 games last year, Orton threw 4 INTs for the Bears - one of the games he threw 2 picks, they lost 27-24. Also, the Bears could run the ball last year (Forte has averaged only 58 yards rushing per game this year - and has 1 TD, last year he had 383 yards rushing (thats 77/game and 4 TDs after 5 games). Comparing last year to this is a pointless argument, as there are way to many variables to make it valid. You like Orton - we get it. He's a solid QB who will not lose games for you too often. Cutler can do things with his arm and with his legs that Orton cannot. To claim that Orton is a better QB based on team records compared to last year is silly. That's similar to saying Kyle Orton is as good as Drew Brees because both team are undefeated at this point in the season. The fact is, Kyle Orton's career passer rating is 76.2 - after 6 games with the Broncos it is 100.1. If it comes back to the mean, then he'll have some fairly mediocre games (which I think is more likely to happen than not). If he maintains that high of a rating and continues to experience that much success if that offensive system, then I think we have a different discussion on our hands:Is it the system? Keep in mind, McD brought the Pats system - the same system that made a 6th round QB a sure-fire HOF QB (Brady). When he went down it made Cassel one of the most sought after QB one-year-wonders (which, ironically is what lead to Cutler leaving) - it seems to be taking an average NFL QB (remember the career 76.2 QB rating?) and making him fairly succesful.

 

[hephner]

There were two special teams touchdowns and the Denver defense was incredible after the first quarter. Orton had very little to do with the win last night. He's been okay but why proclaim him a "winner" after a game in which he wasn't much of a factor? He's not turning it over and is making the short passing game work. That fits this type of team. But Denver is winning games because their defense has been amazing.

Not sure if this was meant for me or Switz.. as I agree with you. The Defense this year is nothing like the crap they sent out last year...

I agree the defense has been 100% improved this year compared to last, and that they are in games because of their defense. That's the style of team McDaniels wants, and it's what won the Pats their recent SBs. My point was that at the same point last season and this, the Bears had the same number of wins - Orton or Cutler. Cutler isn't winning the Bears more games, and Orton wasn't costing the Bears games.I'm just tired of all the people who proclaimed Cutler the savior finding new excuse for why the Bears can't win more, and those saying Orton was the suck finding more reasons why he wasn't part of the win. He didn't get to 27-12 by being lucky, he made the plays needed to win.

You can't just look at the first 5 games of each season and say, "well, they're 3-2 again, guess that Cutler trade didn't help afterall."I will agree with you however on being tired of people claiming Cutler to be the Bears' savior. I agree that those people who thought the Bears were immediate Super Bowl contenders don't know what they're talking about. When I looked at this team this year, I thought they were a 9-7 or at best, 10-6 team (I actually had them at 2-3 at this point, although admittedly, the 3-2 start has been a little sloppier than I had hoped). I thought they could challenge for a wild card spot, and I still think that's possible, but I never had Super Bowl aspirations this year. Too many question marks on the o-line and in the secondary coming into the year. But people claiming that Cutler was going to take them to the Super Bowl this year (cough...Peter King...cough) are just being football stupid.But on the flip side, I'm also tired of the assessment of the trade and comparing the two QBs and taking it as one extreme or the other. The trade can be good for both teams. Orton's success managing the game and Cutler's over-aggressiveness through 5 games doesn't mean that it's suddently a bad trade for the Bears. And the Broncos being 6-0 and the Bears 3-2 doesn't have to say that either. It's only 5 damn games, a tiny sample size in the big picture. As a Bears fan, I've always looked at this trade as more of a long term prospect than what they were going to do through 5 games, or even 1 season. They have receivers they can develop, and can build around Cutler through mid-late round picks (something Jerry Angelop has shown some drafting success with), and possibly free agency (excluding Frank Ominyale). Cutler is only 26 years old. He's still getting better, and as he learns to be more disciplined, could develop into an elite QB, and certainly has a higher ceiling than any QB the Bears have had in recent years, and that's why they made the trade. Whether he reaches that ceiling will be up to him and the coaches to develop his talent and to build around him. And as for Orton, I always like him, and think he's a solid QB, but he just doesn't have elite talent. That doesn't make him a bad QB, I just don't see him as a difference maker or a long term answer for any team. Can he still win in the right situation? Absolutely. Just as he's shown to do over his career and early here with Denver. But I still don't think he's a potential franchise QB. But he can definitely succeed in Denver, and they will be able to do a lot with those picks they acquired.

 

[Kuz]

There were two special teams touchdowns and the Denver defense was incredible after the first quarter. Orton had very little to do with the win last night. He's been okay but why proclaim him a "winner" after a game in which he wasn't much of a factor? He's not turning it over and is making the short passing game work. That fits this type of team. But Denver is winning games because their defense has been amazing.

Not sure if this was meant for me or Switz.. as I agree with you. The Defense this year is nothing like the crap they sent out last year...

I agree the defense has been 100% improved this year compared to last, and that they are in games because of their defense. That's the style of team McDaniels wants, and it's what won the Pats their recent SBs. My point was that at the same point last season and this, the Bears had the same number of wins - Orton or Cutler. Cutler isn't winning the Bears more games, and Orton wasn't costing the Bears games.I'm just tired of all the people who proclaimed Cutler the savior finding new excuse for why the Bears can't win more, and those saying Orton was the suck finding more reasons why he wasn't part of the win. He didn't get to 27-12 by being lucky, he made the plays needed to win.

I'm with you on that.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

through 6 weeks of the season, Kyle Orton ranks as QB14 in terms of average points/game in a 6pt for TD/2pt for INT league.

over the past 3 weeks, he ranks as QB10. He's thrown for at least 1 TD in every game so far, and has thrown for 2 TDs in each of the past 3 games.

he also has a 9TD/1INT ratio with the only interception coming on a hail mary pass. he's averaging 32 pass attempts and 244 passing yards/game.

pretty strong numbers.

 

[switz]

You like Orton - we get it. He's a solid QB who will not lose games for you too often. Cutler can do things with his arm and with his legs that Orton cannot.

I was with you until the bolded As for the "system" statement, no doubt the Pats system is great for QBs, but Orton was putting up similar passing yardage in CHI over the first 5 or 6 games last season as well, with no WRs to throw to, as so many like to claim as an excuse for Cutler. Orton was pushed in way too early as a rookie, but he is a very smart and savvy QB, and had more potential entering the league than any of the QBs McDaniels has worked with yet. Whether that translates into anything is yet to be seen.

 

[Jason Wood]

I'll eat some crow pie, crow soup and crow dumplings just for good measure.

Look, if there's one call I think has been most off the rails this year, it was the Death of the Broncos. Many people, myself included, thought McDaniels was on his way to a one-and-done type of disaster. Infighting, poor trades, lack of discipline, etc...and then they start the season 6-0 and look pretty good doing it. What can you say? That's why this sport is awesome and fascinating and maddening all at the same time.

 

[Buffaloes]

You like Orton - we get it. He's a solid QB who will not lose games for you too often. Cutler can do things with his arm and with his legs that Orton cannot.

I was with you until the bolded As for the "system" statement, no doubt the Pats system is great for QBs, but Orton was putting up similar passing yardage in CHI over the first 5 or 6 games last season as well, with no WRs to throw to, as so many like to claim as an excuse for Cutler. Orton was pushed in way too early as a rookie, but he is a very smart and savvy QB, and had more potential entering the league than any of the QBs McDaniels has worked with yet. Whether that translates into anything is yet to be seen.

Cutler is definitely more mobile than Orton.

 

[Matt Waldman]

I definitely thought Orton was a mediocre QB at best and the Broncos would be where we see the Titans. He looked excellent last night and good for much of the season. I'm still surprised every time I watch him.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I'll eat some crow pie, crow soup and crow dumplings just for good measure.

Look, if there's one call I think has been most off the rails this year, it was the Death of the Broncos. Many people, myself included, thought McDaniels was on his way to a one-and-done type of disaster. Infighting, poor trades, lack of discipline, etc...and then they start the season 6-0 and look pretty good doing it. What can you say? That's why this sport is awesome and fascinating and maddening all at the same time.

Re the bolded: The infighting was done by Jay Cutler. Therefore, trading him was the right move. (I'm not sure what lack of discipline is being referred to.)Jay Cutler has played with a lot of heart this year for the Bears. I think being traded was a wake-up call for him, and his attitude is a lot better now. That's great -- people should be genuinely proud of him. But I think there's no denying that, while he was still in Denver this past offseason, his attitude was horrible. It was going to drag the entire team down. I thought at the time, and still think, that McDaniels did the right thing by solving that problem with a trade.

I hope that both McDaniels and Cutler enjoy solid careers in their respective new cities. But it wasn't going to happen while both were in Denver.

 

[switz]

You like Orton - we get it. He's a solid QB who will not lose games for you too often. Cutler can do things with his arm and with his legs that Orton cannot.

I was with you until the bolded As for the "system" statement, no doubt the Pats system is great for QBs, but Orton was putting up similar passing yardage in CHI over the first 5 or 6 games last season as well, with no WRs to throw to, as so many like to claim as an excuse for Cutler. Orton was pushed in way too early as a rookie, but he is a very smart and savvy QB, and had more potential entering the league than any of the QBs McDaniels has worked with yet. Whether that translates into anything is yet to be seen.

Cutler is definitely more mobile than Orton.

Neither are anything special in that department that I would call it a distinguishing factor.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

You like Orton - we get it. He's a solid QB who will not lose games for you too often. Cutler can do things with his arm and with his legs that Orton cannot.

I was with you until the bolded As for the "system" statement, no doubt the Pats system is great for QBs, but Orton was putting up similar passing yardage in CHI over the first 5 or 6 games last season as well, with no WRs to throw to, as so many like to claim as an excuse for Cutler. Orton was pushed in way too early as a rookie, but he is a very smart and savvy QB, and had more potential entering the league than any of the QBs McDaniels has worked with yet. Whether that translates into anything is yet to be seen.

Cutler is definitely more mobile than Orton.

Definitely. Cutler's impressive arm strength is not the only basis for comparison to Elway. He runs very well, too.

 

[Buffaloes]

You like Orton - we get it. He's a solid QB who will not lose games for you too often. Cutler can do things with his arm and with his legs that Orton cannot.

I was with you until the bolded As for the "system" statement, no doubt the Pats system is great for QBs, but Orton was putting up similar passing yardage in CHI over the first 5 or 6 games last season as well, with no WRs to throw to, as so many like to claim as an excuse for Cutler. Orton was pushed in way too early as a rookie, but he is a very smart and savvy QB, and had more potential entering the league than any of the QBs McDaniels has worked with yet. Whether that translates into anything is yet to be seen.

Cutler is definitely more mobile than Orton.

Neither are anything special in that department that I would call it a distinguishing factor.

I'm in Air Orton's corner here, but I will disagree. Cutler is a very mobile QB. we can just agree to disagree here.

 

[BassNBrew]

Orton's OK but no franchise QB. I think McDaniels is a bigger doosh than before. He took over a team with a good offense and bad defense, undid much of their strength and didn't do much to fix their weakness.

:unsubscribe:

 

[bcr8f]

How good would Denver be had they fixed the defense last season?

That was the problem. Cutlers a good system QB but will he win when good defenses figure him out? Jump the slants and hitches and make him go deep?

 

[Buffaloes]

How good would Denver be had they fixed the defense last season?That was the problem. Cutlers a good system QB but will he win when good defenses figure him out? Jump the slants and hitches and make him go deep?

I'm pretty sure defenses already understand Orton's limitations. McDaniel's offensive play calling and his schemes have had a lot to do with the offense's success and I don't see that changing in the near future. I'm sure last year's team would have been great with a defense like this. But it didn't have one. None of the Broncos teams have had one like this. That was probably Mike Shanahan's undoing in Denver. McDaniels did a good job getting Nolan on board and they have put together what looks like a great defense.

 

[Tau837]

You can beat Orton by collapsing the pocket on him. Do that and he will dump it off, or take the sack.

Well, fortunately, he is now playing behind a much better offensive line than he had in Chicago, so he shouldn't face that situation nearly as often.From a fantasy perspective, if Orton wins the job and stays healthy, I think there is little doubt he will be above average. Last season, Denver attempted 620 passes. McDaniel's offense attempted 534. Denver's defense will presumably still be weak, so I'll project 550 passing attempts. Last season, Orton averaged 6.4 ypa and had a 3.9% TD percentage and 2.6% interception percentage. Just carrying those numbers over, with 550 attempts, he'd throw for 3520 yards, 21 TDs, and 14 interceptions. But those numbers don't reflect better offensive coaching and playcalling, better OL, and/or better targets. And it uses numbers that were hurt when he played hurt, which we don't know he will have to do this season. I think he could easily throw for 3700 yards and 25 TDs.Now, granted, there are some ifs and suppositions in there, but I think the upside potential is there.

After 6 games, Orton is on pace for 3907 yards and 24 TDs.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

I feel pretty good about him.

 

[moleculo]

after watching the Broncos w/ Simms and w/ Orton at the helm, I can say without hesitation that Orton is the engine that makes Denver go. Orton is invaluable to the Broncos at this point, and I shudder to think what this team would be like without him.

Here's a thought - w/o Orton, the Broncos would be the 5-11 (at best) team we all thought they would be in the off-season. Orton is the difference maker, and the sole reason for hope.

That's what I think about Orton right now. The savior of the season.

 

[BigA]

grossman would have the same success with the wideouts denver has...

 

[Buffaloes]

grossman would have the same success with the wideouts denver has...

He's probably not smart enough to run McDaniels' system. Not kidding.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

after watching the Broncos w/ Simms and w/ Orton at the helm, I can say without hesitation that Orton is the engine that makes Denver go. Orton is invaluable to the Broncos at this point, and I shudder to think what this team would be like without him.Here's a thought - w/o Orton, the Broncos would be the 5-11 (at best) team we all thought they would be in the off-season. Orton is the difference maker, and the sole reason for hope.That's what I think about Orton right now. The savior of the season.

 

[Buffaloes]

He's still kick ###

 

[bringerofchill]

Orton>Cutler

Orton may not have the better skills but he wins games. Winning is all the matters in the NFL

 

[mbuehner]

Orton>CutlerOrton may not have the better skills but he wins games. Winning is all the matters in the NFL

Winning a superbowl is all that matters. Lets see if Orton can win a playoff game.

 

[MDSkinner]

Orton>CutlerOrton may not have the better skills but he wins games. Winning is all the matters in the NFL

In this case Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino?I am not saying Dilfer = Orton or that Cutler = Marino by any stretch, just that if winning is all that matters then Dilfer is better than Marino, which we all know is not true.That said, Orton is perfect for this Broncos team just as he was perfect for the 11-5 Bears team. He continues to play smart and not lose any games and every once in a great while he will make a play for you (with the Bears it was always when the defense put him in position to do so). A good solid QB for sure and right now a far better one than Cutler is playing.ETA: Changed 13-3 to 11-5....was thinking of wrong team, same point made though.

 

[switz]

Love the quote from Marshall about Orton telling him "you could have caught those balls with both hands, stop making me look bad." Love the leadership, love the self awareness, love the fact Marshall enjoyed the quote. The way teammates (and ex-teammates) love Orton says so much about what a difference he makes for a team, that goes far beyond statistics.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Orton>CutlerOrton may not have the better skills but he wins games. Winning is all the matters in the NFL

In this case Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino?

Not to rain on the Cutlerette parade, but Marino was 147-93 in his career 0.613%Dilfer - 58-55 0.513%Cutler - 21-27 0.438%Orton - 28-15 0.651%If you were ranking QBs - Marino >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Orton>>>>>>>>>>>Cutler>Dilfer

 

[Ray_T]

Orton has been solid. Not spectacular, but solid.

I agree with a previous post. It is easier to win with a good personell around you. A good O-Line and a top end WR (marshall) makes a huge difference. With a guy like Marshall, you arent scared to throw up a jump ball because more often than not, Marshall will get it.

also, I think the offensive system in chicago is suspect. Who do they have that can catch the ball as a go to WR? Really? who?

I dont blame Cutler for trying to make things happen. he has no good WR. and when you are down points, you will make that questionable throw instead of eating the ball & taking the sack because you want to win.

Chicago needs to draft a top WR next year, and a good Guard or Tackle (top 2 picks) so that their investment in Cutler has an actual chance of paying off. If they dont do this, then you may as well write off their offense for another year.

 

[MDSkinner]

Orton>CutlerOrton may not have the better skills but he wins games. Winning is all the matters in the NFL

In this case Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino?

Not to rain on the Cutlerette parade, but Marino was 147-93 in his career 0.613%Dilfer - 58-55 0.513%Cutler - 21-27 0.438%Orton - 28-15 0.651%If you were ranking QBs - Marino >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Orton>>>>>>>>>>>Cutler>Dilfer

That is funny, I completely agree with you...you must have missed the rest of my post where I pointed out that

I am not saying Dilfer = Orton or that Cutler = Marino by any stretch, just that if winning is all that matters then Dilfer is better than Marino, which we all know is not true.

and where I then complimented Orton on what all he has done. I very much like Orton. I do not see him as anywhere near an all time great, but I definitely think he can be a good QB for a long time. I would not ever expect him to be a top 5 QB, but certainly top half of the league in the right circumstances (which Denver may be).Cutler is a different story. At this point I am still excited about him, but that is waning.

 

[norgay]

Orton has been solid. Not spectacular, but solid.

I agree with a previous post. It is easier to win with a good personell around you. A good O-Line and a top end WR (marshall) makes a huge difference. With a guy like Marshall, you arent scared to throw up a jump ball because more often than not, Marshall will get it.

also, I think the offensive system in chicago is suspect. Who do they have that can catch the ball as a go to WR? Really? who?

I dont blame Cutler for trying to make things happen. he has no good WR. and when you are down points, you will make that questionable throw instead of eating the ball & taking the sack because you want to win.

Chicago needs to draft a top WR next year, and a good Guard or Tackle (top 2 picks) so that their investment in Cutler has an actual chance of paying off. If they dont do this, then you may as well write off their offense for another year.

I swear I don't understand this line. It seems like the fashionable thing to say, but its ridiculous. It's like people want to say Orton is very very good but are embarrassed to say publicly that Orton is good so they say he's "been solid but not spectacular". What would he need to do to be spectactular?His teammates really seem to like him and like playing with him/for him.

His team wins when he's playing and loses when he's not playing.

What else do you want? A brilliant 2-minute Manning-style no huddle drive to win a game where he audibles every play at the line? Then would it be safe to give him a real compliment? He doesn't have to be on Manning's level to be spectacular. If you are Denver right now and could plug in any other QB for the rest of the season, how many QBs would you replace him with? Peyton, Brady, Brees, Favre, maybe Rivers (even though he throws like a girl), but who else? That isnt good enough to be considered better than solid?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Orton>CutlerOrton may not have the better skills but he wins games. Winning is all the matters in the NFL

Winning a superbowl is all that matters. Lets see if Orton can win a playoff game.

let's see if cutler can make it to the playoffs.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I am not saying Dilfer = Orton or that Cutler = Marino by any stretch, just that if winning is all that matters then Dilfer is better than Marino, which we all know is not true.

Marino won a lot more games than Dilfer, as I'm sure you know, so I don't think that's the best example to use.

 

[cvnpoka]

I swear I don't understand this line. It seems like the fashionable thing to say, but its ridiculous. It's like people want to say Orton is very very good but are embarrassed to say publicly that Orton is good so they say he's "been solid but not spectacular". What would he need to do to be spectactular?

His teammates really seem to like him and like playing with him/for him.

His team wins when he's playing and loses when he's not playing.

What else do you want? A brilliant 2-minute Manning-style no huddle drive to win a game where he audibles every play at the line? Then would it be safe to give him a real compliment? He doesn't have to be on Manning's level to be spectacular. If you are Denver right now and could plug in any other QB for the rest of the season, how many QBs would you replace him with? Peyton, Brady, Brees, Favre, maybe Rivers (even though he throws like a girl), but who else? That isnt good enough to be considered better than solid?

all those guys along with rodgers, flacco, roeth, warner, mcnabb, eli, schaub, romo, palmer, ryan, hasselbeck, garrard. oh ya, and cutler too.

 

[moleculo]

I swear I don't understand this line. It seems like the fashionable thing to say, but its ridiculous. It's like people want to say Orton is very very good but are embarrassed to say publicly that Orton is good so they say he's "been solid but not spectacular". What would he need to do to be spectactular?

His teammates really seem to like him and like playing with him/for him.

His team wins when he's playing and loses when he's not playing.

What else do you want? A brilliant 2-minute Manning-style no huddle drive to win a game where he audibles every play at the line? Then would it be safe to give him a real compliment? He doesn't have to be on Manning's level to be spectacular. If you are Denver right now and could plug in any other QB for the rest of the season, how many QBs would you replace him with? Peyton, Brady, Brees, Favre, maybe Rivers (even though he throws like a girl), but who else? That isnt good enough to be considered better than solid?

all those guys along with rodgers, flacco, roeth, warner, mcnabb, eli, schaub, romo, palmer, ryan, hasselbeck, garrard. oh ya, and cutler too.

 

[flapgreen]

Hey Orton. How youuuu doin?

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Hey Orton. How youuuu doin?

Considering that the Broncos were picked to win 5 games, and Orton has been playing on a bum ankle.......I don't think anyone in Denver (including Orton) is regretting the trade.

 

[switz]

I swear I don't understand this line. It seems like the fashionable thing to say, but its ridiculous. It's like people want to say Orton is very very good but are embarrassed to say publicly that Orton is good so they say he's "been solid but not spectacular". What would he need to do to be spectactular?

His teammates really seem to like him and like playing with him/for him.

His team wins when he's playing and loses when he's not playing.

What else do you want? A brilliant 2-minute Manning-style no huddle drive to win a game where he audibles every play at the line? Then would it be safe to give him a real compliment? He doesn't have to be on Manning's level to be spectacular. If you are Denver right now and could plug in any other QB for the rest of the season, how many QBs would you replace him with? Peyton, Brady, Brees, Favre, maybe Rivers (even though he throws like a girl), but who else? That isnt good enough to be considered better than solid?

all those guys along with rodgers, flacco, roeth, warner, mcnabb, eli, schaub, romo, palmer, ryan, hasselbeck, garrard. oh ya, and cutler too.

:rofl: @ Cutler I'm thinking Orton and the Broncos are feeling REALLY good about the trade, even after the way the season has unfolded down the stretch. Next year will be year 2 in the system, they should be improved, I could see playoffs next season.

I honestly think he people down on Orton really don't know much about football.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Hey Orton. How youuuu doin?

From a W/L perspective, he is doing as well as Cutler did with the Broncos last year (8-7 going into week 16), despite having a much better defense (29th last year vs. top 5 this year).

 

[switz]

Hey Orton. How youuuu doin?

From a W/L perspective, he is doing as well as Cutler did with the Broncos last year (8-7 going into week 16), despite having a much better defense (29th last year vs. top 5 this year).

Pretty impressive considering it's Orton's first year in this system, with a bunch of new receivers, new HC, OC, etc.Cutler had the benefit of consistency and couldn't do any better? And we're all seeing how well he did having to adapt to a new team.

 

[Buffaloes]

Kyle Orton's complete immobility may be his downfall. 3rd and 2 yesterday just past midfield, Orton is flushed from the pocket has an easy 1st down and chooses to make an errant throw over the middle. Next play, punt. He gets that 1st down and the Broncos are driving. He missed another opportunity earlier in the game IIRC where he could have tucked the ball and run for a few open yards for an easy 1st down. I don't know if he is thinking about the ankle or what but he is Brian Griese-esque in the way he will coil up and take the sack rather than elude the pressure. He's played admirably and I still think it was a good trade for Denver to get 2 1sts and a 3rd and Orton, but I'm not so sure Orton is the guy long term. During yesterday's game, they flashed a stat that showed he had taken 12 sacks over the past 4 games. As many as Denver gave up all of last year.

 

[Buffaloes]

Hey Orton. How youuuu doin?

Better than cutler. And if we Bronco fans start to feel bad about Orton, we'll just remember the 2 1sts Chicago sent too.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Hey Orton. How youuuu doin?

From a W/L perspective, he is doing as well as Cutler did with the Broncos last year (8-7 going into week 16), despite having a much better defense (29th last year vs. top 5 this year).

Pretty impressive considering it's Orton's first year in this system, with a bunch of new receivers, new HC, OC, etc.Cutler had the benefit of consistency and couldn't do any better? And we're all seeing how well he did having to adapt to a new team.

Cutler has regressed this year, no doubt about it. He never played this consistently bad with the Broncos. This year is showing that Cutler must have good weapons around him to play well and put up good numbers. But like Buffaloes said, Orton's upside is limited. He can do certain things well, but there are many things he cannot do. With a top defense for most of the season and plenty of weapons of offense, this team should be better than 8-7. I think this season has shown that Orton can do well and win when the defense is on their game (the defense has allowed a combined 78 points in the eight wins), but when they are not, he has trouble doing what it takes to get the team the win.

 

[TommyGilmore]

With a top defense for most of the season and plenty of weapons of offense, this team should be better than 8-7.

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season? I think Vegas had the over/under at 7.

 

[Ghost Rider]

With a top defense for most of the season and plenty of weapons of offense, this team should be better than 8-7.

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season?

I doubt it. No one thought their defense would make this kind of epic turnaround. Make no mistake about it: The defense is the biggest reason the team is 8-7 right now (despite their epic failure in the last two minutes against Oakland last week).

 

[JJP]

With a top defense for most of the season and plenty of weapons of offense, this team should be better than 8-7.

Was anyone predicting Denver to win more than 8 games this season? I think Vegas had the over/under at 7.

Absolutely. I think it was 7 1/2. And the Bears O/U was 8 1/2. They are at 5 and there's no guarantee they beat Detroit in the season closer.The two number one picks are huge. Bears will be lousy for the next 3 years, minimum.