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Chicago without Cutler and Forte, Minnesota without ADP: neither team beat a playoff team. The term vastly could be considered a bit misleading; just saying.
Until yesterday, of course
Personally, I think the Texans have a good chance to go all the way.
The Bears beat the Falcons and the Lions - both rather handily (30-12 over the Falcons in week 1 and 37-13 over the Lions in week 10).
Because it's faster to type and fits into sentences better than "guy who says Tebow is not a good QB".Don't take it as an insult.Though, to be fair, there are quite a few people in this thread that fall into the more traditional definition of the word "hater" even though I've never intentionally used it that way.
And another advantage of Denver running this QB system is that they can wait to late rounds to draft a good backup QB who fits in this system. Which will allow them to use early rounds to draft other positions.
And to also be fair there is a fair amount of hyperbole from the Tebow "lover" side as well.I certainly don't hate the guy at all but am not convinced in the least that he is ever gonna be a good QB.Way too soon to declare anything with him.He gas shown some flashes of he might have it and has also shown that he is completely lost as well.
Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote. Which playoff team was it that the Broncos (with Tebow) or the Bengals beat in the regular season? If you look, the Bears (who didn't make the playoffs) beat Atlanta and the Lions with Cutler and Forte.Chicago without Cutler and Forte, Minnesota without ADP: neither team beat a playoff team. The term vastly could be considered a bit misleading; just saying.
Until yesterday, of course
Personally, I think the Texans have a good chance to go all the way.
But hey, don't let facts slow your roll
Your point is a fair one. I think one of the issues is that there are people in this thread who have declared numerous times that Tebow cannot become a succesful NFL QB ever and that he is arguably the worst QB in NFL history - that kind of extreme is labelled as "hater".Honestly I think most of us are somewhere in the middle (with leaning toward either believing his positives are more indicative of his future - as is the case with me or others who are also unsure but lean that his weaknesses are more indicative of his future). Very few posting in this thread are blind "lovers" or "haters".I think most of us would like to see blame when it is due and props given when earned. Blind "Tebow-lovers" are apt to not give the former, while haters refuse the latter (or even when doing so, do it in a way that is actually feint praise or a back-handed compliment which isn't sincere at all).I think most of us though, have seen what you have. Glimpses of both the great and grotesque. Some of us think the great shows his potential, while the flaws can be lessened as he develops and matures as an NFL QB. Certainly their are succesful NFL QBs who have looked just as bad if not worse. And yes, there have been bad QBs who have won playoff games or looked decent for short stints.
Or at least embrace that Tebow is the best thing to happen for board schtick in a long time
-QG
I didn't misunderstand what you wrote. You didn't write what you meant. Feel to google "Using a colon in a sentence".There is no need to respond and completely hijack the thread. YWIA for the free English lesson.Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote. Which playoff team was it that the Broncos (with Tebow) or the Bengals beat in the regular season? If you look, the Bears (who didn't make the playoffs) beat Atlanta and the Lions with Cutler and Forte.Chicago without Cutler and Forte, Minnesota without ADP: neither team beat a playoff team. The term vastly could be considered a bit misleading; just saying.
Until yesterday, of course
Personally, I think the Texans have a good chance to go all the way.
But hey, don't let facts slow your roll
But don't let those facts slap you in the face either.
If you're not a Bronco fan, why even care how good/bad of a QB Tebow might be?
Because I enjoy scouting players.I do this with all the players in the league for my dynasty leagues.
Funny thing about the Jets, Chargers, and Raiders. They all would have made the playoffs if they'd beaten Denver with Tebow.The other funny thing about them is they were all considered good teams who were going to put Tebow in his place until they lost to him, at which point they instantly became schmucks that anyone can beat.It's not like it's unusual for a team to not rack up a bunch of wins against playoff teams. With the Broncos win over the Steelers this week it puts them right in the middle of the pack in good wins, really.New England hasn't beaten a team with a winning record all year and they got a first round bye.Atlanta has 1 win against a playoff team (Detroit)Houston has 2 (Pittsburgh and a 1-point win vs Cincy)NYG have 2 (New England and this week's game vs Atlanta)Cinci has 0Pitt has 2 (New England and Cinci)Detroit has 1 (Denver)Denver has 1 (Pittsburgh)
No offense to you specifically, Tom - but I see this type of comment often and I find it hysterical.
So you choose to count on others for your opinions of players? If so I also find that hysterical.
Very
I always thought it was odd how people kept saying "Team X would be the team that finally beat Tebow" and then after the Broncos won that team suddenly wasn't any good anyway.
FWIW, I think Tim Tebow is a good NFL QB right now. There are less than 100 NFL QB jobs in the world. 32 starters. If you take the entire package of what a QB does to help win or lose football games, he is at minimum in the top half of those starters. In other words, I'd rank him somewhere between the 9th and 16th QB in the planet at the moment. This is with very little experience at the NFL level. By my definition, that is a good QB.
He'll just do something stupid with it like feed Filipino orphans.Sorry if this has already been posted, I didn't see it . . . Schefter reporting today that Tebow's contract has a $250,000 escalator for each playoff win.
He'll just do something stupid with it like feed Filipino orphans.Sorry if this has already been posted, I didn't see it . . . Schefter reporting today that Tebow's contract has a $250,000 escalator for each playoff win.
You both lost the gist of the original post but that isn't surprising as this thread has dragged on ad-nauseam. If you don't understand the difference in beating the Bears with Cutler and Forte I can't help you there.Had the Broncos beat the Chiefs in the lst game of the season they wouldn't have had to wait for the awful Raiders to lose to get into the playoffs. Oh, and they might have more readily accepted their hats and T-Shirts as winners of the division. I give them a lot of credit for that.For what it's worth I have posted kudos to Tebow for his play yesterday in other threads. The best game I have seen him play to date. Tebow was the same QB when he won seven of eight games followed by three straight losses. He made some nice plays yesterday; D Thomas didn't hurt his cause either, he was fantastic; neither did the defense; neither did the coaching staff. Actually, he had fewer isolated heroics in yesterday's game than in other previous games. But that is the nature of football isn't it? You often win as a team. Tebow is part of one. The lightning rod isn't going away any time soon.Very
Of course I do. But my point still stands. Team X was always going to be the team that stopped Tebow. But then when the Broncos won it wasn't because of anything Tebow did but rather what the other team didn't do or some would backtrack on their original point and say that team wasn't very good to begin with. The Jets game was a prime example. That was supposed to be the defense and team that put an end to Tebow Time. Then when it happened again, people backtracked and said the Jets weren't very good anyway. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.FreeBaGel's point about how those teams would have been playoff teams had they only beaten the Broncos and Tebow speaks volumes as well.
As I said either here or in another thread, you can only beat who the other team lines up. Plus it's not like Tebow was stepping in like Steve Young to the Dynasty 49ers here. This is a team that has gone 4-14 over the last two seasons when Tebow isn't starting. Not to mention that management traded away arguably the best offensive player as soon as Tebow took over. If he's the liability that some people want to make him out to be, should it really matter that they faced a back-up here or there? Don't bad teams with bad QB's lose those games?
He'll just do something stupid with it like feed Filipino orphans.Sorry if this has already been posted, I didn't see it . . . Schefter reporting today that Tebow's contract has a $250,000 escalator for each playoff win.
Extremely good posting!!!!!
The defense allowed the Steelers to score better than their season average with their 3rd string RB, Ben barely able to walk and half the offensive line missing.Not only that but it seemed like they couldn't stop the Steelers all of the 2nd half.You both lost the gist of the original post but that isn't surprising as this thread has dragged on ad-nauseam. If you don't understand the difference in beating the Bears with Cutler and Forte I can't help you there.Very
Had the Broncos beat the Chiefs in the lst game of the season they wouldn't have had to wait for the awful Raiders to lose to get into the playoffs. Oh, and they might have more readily accepted their hats and T-Shirts as winners of the division. I give them a lot of credit for that.
For what it's worth I have posted kudos to Tebow for his play yesterday in other threads. The best game I have seen him play to date.
Tebow was the same QB when he won seven of eight games followed by three straight losses. He made some nice plays yesterday; D Thomas didn't hurt his cause either, he was fantastic; neither did the defense; neither did the coaching staff. Actually, he had fewer isolated heroics in yesterday's game than in other previous games. But that is the nature of football isn't it? You often win as a team. Tebow is part of one. The lightning rod isn't going away any time soon.
Not a lot of sense in comparing him to Trent Dilfer or Mark Sanchez, that was the point ...One thing your not taking into consideration is Rushing yards and how that affects what the defenses play against the Broncos. It was Clear as day yesterday. Yes, Demaryius is going to be a good one, Name another budding prospect on that team.
If anybody cared to watch the games, a large number of his passes are just throw-aways which is how he's been instructed to play (on the conservative side) and play the field position game. For every pass, a QB has to assess the risk/reward and I think that Coach John Fox has told Tebow to tend to the very conservative side - thus the obvious throw-aways, especially when ahead. Against the Steelers, there were also 4-5 dropped passes that should have easily been caught. In addition to Eric Decker being injured early on, the Broncos trading away their only legit #1 WR Brandon Lloyd, and no TEs worth a crap. The Broncos are severely under-talented in the receiving department and their game plan and Tebow's decision making reflect that.
Several questions to be answered:1) What does Elway do in the off-season? Get some decent talent at WR, TE and FB. The offense that the Broncos are attempting to run requires WRs that can block when called on, catch the ball when thrown to, and not fumble ever - running a 4.2 40 is not necessary. Same thing with the TE. And the RBs and FBs need to not fumble and know how to pick up the blitz. The skills needed to execute this offense is the same as other pro offenses but there's a complete focus on not turning the ball over and not losing yards on plays. If anybody cared to check, the Gators receiving corps while Tebow was there were much better than the Broncos have now.2) Totally commit to Tebow? Yes. Elway will become persona non grata if he dumps Tebow. Because some other team will get him and start winning with him.3) Draft a late round QB? No. Spread option QBs aren't getting snatched up - you can sign them any time you want. The draft needs are more for the offensive line and maintaining a strong defense. * * * Further thoughts:I finally heard an ESPN analyst finally "get" why Tebow has found a little success in the NFL to whatever degree so far while running this offense. It took a while but Trent Dilfer realized last night that defenses are reacting to several more things than they normally have to: (a) The setup before the snap, (b) the initial read of the play (run/pass/option), © the next step of the play (run/pass/option). This is exactly what has made this offense successful in the past and why Tebow is still finding success in it. Tebow is more than just a scrambling QB like Mike Vick or Randall Cunningham. He's a person who can make reads before the snap and after the snap that can outrun 95% of the DLinemen, outrun 50% of the LBs, and not be afraid of 100% of the DBs. He's a person who knows how to keep the play alive and how not to get the crap knocked out of himself which makes him exit the game.Final thoughts:Some people are trying to compare his skills to Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady in order to prove he sucks. Anybody that does that is wasting their time. He's a different kind of QB running a different kind of offense. He and this offense are brand new to the NFL and the Broncos whereas the other guys have been in the league for a decade and have well established teams.I hope Elway is ambitious and brave enough to give it a try for a few years and provide full support to the coaches and team. As has been witnessed in the last 11 weeks, he's become an international phenomenon and it's great TV.
Agreed. The Broncos took control of the game in Denver and looked great in the first half. But 3 quick turnovers in their own territory hurt. And the secondary had no answer for the passing game - but who does.The Patriots offense needs to be kept on the sideline and the Broncos need to run, move the changes, and keep running. Wear out the Pats defense and keep their own defense fresh. Get to Brady as quickly as possible and keep knocking him down. He doesn't like to get roughed up - no QB does.If Foxboro gets cold and windy Saturday night, it could make passes over 20 yards difficult. But the Broncos are going to need to win the turnover battle to have a chance.
I hear ya but if he doesn't improve his passing game he won't be on the field to help your FF game. Tebow has been a nice story but my gut tells me what happened and how it has happened this year will not happen next year. His last game (his best game) was a very good game, but there were circumstances. He threw for over 300 yards, but that was on 10 passes, an abberation. (not to mention his style of play opens him up to injury far more than a pure passing QB) How many running backs got dinged up this year and missed time.
With Tebow's elongated throwing motion and very slow release bubble screens and quick outs wouldn't be effective. Throws to the sidelines, particularly to his right, isn't one of his strengths. Pittsburgh did not defend well against Tebow's strength as a QB which is the down field, slower developing throw. Even the crossing routes he hit to Thomas in OT and the non-catch by Decker were one read plays that allowed (with good blocking bby the offensive line) Tebow to see the play develop and throw to his called play. The OC did a great job of calling the right play and Tebow made some really nice throws. With McGhee hobbled the Bronco's weren't going to beat the Steelers with Lance Ball and Tebow running into the line. The coaching staff very wisely allowed Tebow to pass early, it was their only real chance.
It might have seemed like Fox took the training wheels off - but they've been off for more than a few games now. He called a similar game to what he's called for about the entire second half of the season. I could see how it might look like he changed the gameplan from the outside, though. When you watched a Bronco game (before this past playoff game) you'd see WRs, TEs and RBs open on their routes and not get the ball. You'd see them sit in the zone and wave their arms but Tebow would have already decided to run instead of using the pocket. You'd see the same patterns being run as you saw yesterday. The difference is Tebow pulled the trigger today and was accurate enough when he did.
While it might not be his rookie year, let's not forget his first pro QB coach was Ben McDaniels.
I searched this thread for "rookie" and found these on the first page of results. There may be more, there were six pages and I didn't feel like going through all of them. (Obviously most of the hits are not actually calling Tebow a rookie)http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=13992288http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=13966258No offense, but I haven't seen this.
Technically Denver has a winning record so NE has 1 win over a team with a winning record right now. That will not be the case if they beat Denver again.
What did Tebow run in the agility drill for you?
Well color me suprised.I searched this thread for "rookie" and found these on the first page of results. There may be more, there were six pages and I didn't feel like going through all of them. (Obviously most of the hits are not actually calling Tebow a rookie)http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=13992288http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=13966258
Okay - STOP CALLING HIM A ROOKIE EVERYBODY!! Got that?There we go. That outta do it. 
