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Dynasty Rankings (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Fear & Loathing
- Start date
EBF
Footballguy
Green is just an average athlete by #1 NFL WR standards. High 4.4 speed. Decent vert. Just a decent broad jump for a 6'3.5" guy. His best attributes are intangible. He has great natural receiving skills, is a fluid route runner, and can catch anything thrown in his general vicinity. He is like a taller version of Reggie Wayne. Not a freak from a workout numbers standpoint. Just a great football player.
Thomas is more of a classic "beast" type of athlete. 6'3" 230, but runs like a guy who's 5'11" 190. It's unfair and it's why he's such a dominant force out there. He can't do everything Green can do when the ball is in the air, but then again Green will never present the overwhelming matchup nightmare that Thomas does. I think DT has about 1600 receiving yards in his last 16 NFL games. He's a former first round pick with sick talent. Not sure what more he needs to do to be considered among the best in the game by the consensus. He is already there in real life. Great pedigree. Great production. Talent pops of the screen.
I like Green a lot, but I don't really see how he is head-and-shoulders above a guy like Thomas. They are both insane talents just entering their prime. And while Green is newer on the scene, he is only a few months younger.
Thomas is more of a classic "beast" type of athlete. 6'3" 230, but runs like a guy who's 5'11" 190. It's unfair and it's why he's such a dominant force out there. He can't do everything Green can do when the ball is in the air, but then again Green will never present the overwhelming matchup nightmare that Thomas does. I think DT has about 1600 receiving yards in his last 16 NFL games. He's a former first round pick with sick talent. Not sure what more he needs to do to be considered among the best in the game by the consensus. He is already there in real life. Great pedigree. Great production. Talent pops of the screen.
I like Green a lot, but I don't really see how he is head-and-shoulders above a guy like Thomas. They are both insane talents just entering their prime. And while Green is newer on the scene, he is only a few months younger.
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i'm preparing for my midseason 'do-over' draft in my keeper league. we get to protect 10 guys including IDP and draft 6 more.
there are a LOT of young WRs who i could pick up and a couple who i own the rights to.
how would you rank these guys going forward in terms of potentially becoming No. 1 WRs:
denarius moore
kendall wright
andre roberts
jeremy kerley
mike williams
cecil shorts
titus young
justin blackmon
sidney rice
chris givens
stephen hill
probably could list a few others, but i will keep it to those.
if you're wondering why these guys are available, i own moore and wright but don't think they can make my top 10 ... LBs generally outscore WRs except for the top 10 or so and we start 14 of our 16 man roster every week, so you don't have a lot of room to just stash someone.
not true dynasty, but hoping i can at least get an opinion what to do here.
there are a LOT of young WRs who i could pick up and a couple who i own the rights to.
how would you rank these guys going forward in terms of potentially becoming No. 1 WRs:
denarius moore
kendall wright
andre roberts
jeremy kerley
mike williams
cecil shorts
titus young
justin blackmon
sidney rice
chris givens
stephen hill
probably could list a few others, but i will keep it to those.
if you're wondering why these guys are available, i own moore and wright but don't think they can make my top 10 ... LBs generally outscore WRs except for the top 10 or so and we start 14 of our 16 man roster every week, so you don't have a lot of room to just stash someone.
not true dynasty, but hoping i can at least get an opinion what to do here.
JFS171
Footballguy
Question for you guys to debate: Daryl Richardson vs. Ronnie Hillman.
On the Richardson side we have EBF (clearly), and a coach that made a star out of a similarly sized RB in Chris Johnson. Questions about abound his ability to carry the load from the likes of Silva (though he backtracked on that in his matchups column). Team also drafted another RB in Pead that showed a little something in garbage time against the Pats.
On the Hillman side we have Lammey (also, clearly), and also questions that abound about him being big enough to carry the load. But in that offense, with those WRs, that QB, and a coach with a history of riding his running game... pretty intriguing prospects IF you believe he's up for a feature-back load.
So what says the wisdom of the thread? If you owned one, would you be flipping him for the other?
NOTE: Obviously a Jackson trade would skew immediate opportunity, but let's assume for now that doesn't happen. Judge their prospects moving forward as dynasty assets, with aging starters ahead of them.
On the Richardson side we have EBF (clearly), and a coach that made a star out of a similarly sized RB in Chris Johnson. Questions about abound his ability to carry the load from the likes of Silva (though he backtracked on that in his matchups column). Team also drafted another RB in Pead that showed a little something in garbage time against the Pats.
On the Hillman side we have Lammey (also, clearly), and also questions that abound about him being big enough to carry the load. But in that offense, with those WRs, that QB, and a coach with a history of riding his running game... pretty intriguing prospects IF you believe he's up for a feature-back load.
So what says the wisdom of the thread? If you owned one, would you be flipping him for the other?
NOTE: Obviously a Jackson trade would skew immediate opportunity, but let's assume for now that doesn't happen. Judge their prospects moving forward as dynasty assets, with aging starters ahead of them.
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EBF
Footballguy
I'm not really a Hillman fan. He never really popped for me when I watched his highlights. With a guy like this, I usually take a "prove it" stance, meaning I probably won't buy into the hype until he proves his worth with consistently strong performances on the field. Obviously there's some value there though. He was a relatively high pick and there's no competition for touches (barring some kind of surprise Moreno resurgence). He could be starting in a Peyton Manning offense by next season. It will be hard for him to not have value in that scenario. Richardson is in a similar situation. He wasn't a high pick like Hillman, but he has played well at almost every opportunity. The fact that St. Louis has already announced that they're going to let Jackson walk in the offseason can also be read as a positive sign for him, as it suggests they feel good enough about their RB situation to let a proven commodity go. Pead looms as a threat, but I think the fact that Richardson has decisively beaten him out this year is telling. The coaches have no reason to play Richardson over Pead unless they simply think he's the better player. They have minimal financial investment in him. He isn't more experienced. He doesn't provide a different skill set. He is just a more effective version of the same thing.'JFS171 said:
I think Richardson is one of those guys who just fell through the cracks for whatever reason. He played at a small school and never carried a full workload. He may never be an NFL starter, but it's obvious that he isn't a typical 7th round talent either. He has some freakish athletic qualities and a good blood line (Clyde Gates and Bernard Scott are his brothers). He's on pace for 670 rushing yards at 5.4 YPC. That's better than what LeSean McCoy and Ray Rice did when they were flashy change-of-pace rookies. I've said it before, but if the 2nd round pick Pead had posted the exact same stats and performances, people would be really excited about his prospects and he would be impossible to trade for. Richardson's stock has been slower to climb because he was such an unknown prior to his emergence.
As far as his ability to carry a full workload, I don't think there's an easy way to say how that will play out. He is not the biggest guy at 5'10.3" 192 pounds. He is never going to be a pounder like Michael Turner or Shonn Greene. However, his coaches know this and will not try to shoe-horn him into that kind of role. We have seen guys like Jamaal Charles, Warrick Dunn, Tiki Barber, LeSean McCoy, and Chris Johnson put up great FF numbers without classic featured back size. Clearly it is possible for a small back to make a big impact, provided that he has enough talent. I don't think we can assume that Richardson is as talented as the guys I just mentioned. My only point here is that size alone won't be what prevents him from having a bright FF future.
I think it's also worth pointing out that while he's only about 192 pounds, the distribution of weight seems pretty good. Running backs do most of their damage with the lower body. That's what generates all of the power and leg drive. Richardson is not a big back, but he does have some serious tree trunk thighs despite his lack of overall bulk.
This leads me to believe that he can probably run a bit bigger than what his listed weight would suggest. The fact that he had a 40.5" vertical leap and a freakish 11'3" broad jump at his pro day also reinforces the idea that he has some serious pop in his legs.
He was on my radar after the draft because of his athletic ability, but what surprised me when I watched him live for the first time in the preseason was how instinctive and shifty he was. This is not some straight-line runner workout warrior. The guy is a natural running back with good agility, vision, and cutting ability.
Here's a nice run from yesterday where he makes one tackler miss, tacking on an extra ~10 yards to the run:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000087208/RB-Richardson-20-yd-run
The guy is pretty talented and I think he'll be around the league for a while, provided that he can stay healthy. The only real question is upside. I think his lack of bulk is a legitimate concern. You don't want your 192 pound RB taking vicious hits all game. It's probably not ideal to give a guy like this 20+ carries per game. But I think he can be something like what Warrick Dunn was. In today's NFL, a guy like this who can make plays in space and contribute in the passing game will be a nice asset in FF.
I would take him over Hillman, although I understand arguments for the contrary. To me Richardson's value is a mid first round rookie pick. I turned down a late first for him earlier today. That might seem foolish, but what are you really hoping for when you draft a rookie RB with a first round rookie pick? You hope that he comes in, plays well, and has a clear path to a bigger role. And that describes Richardson so far.
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EBF
Footballguy
Not gonna lie. That is a brutally tough group of players to handicap. There's not a single guy in that group who has zero chance of being a top 20 WR two years from now, and yet there's also not a single guy there who is a lock for the same.Really, there is something in that list for everyone. If you just want to swing for the fences and hope to get a future top 10 dynasty WR, I would say Stephen Hill, Justin Blackmon, and maybe Chris Givens have the highest chance of becoming that type of guy. If you want a safer pick with a lower ceiling, I would look at guys like Mike Williams, Cecil Shorts, Andre Roberts, and Kendall Wright.'bweiser said:
wiscstlatlmia
Footballguy
Denarius Moore is the clear pick in this group, for me.Situation + opportunity + talentETA: hes top 5 in PPG since he came back 3 weeks ago(6-8)I'm actually gonna amend this ETA by saying... he actually came back week 2, His bye was week 5. regardless, since week 2 he is WR16 in PPG
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Tau837
Footballguy
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
I agree. I was telling anyone who would listen that Roberts - and not Floyd or Doucet - was the other guy to own in ARI. He basically doubled his production last year from his rookie year and is on pace to nearly double again. TDs has already doubled. If Roberts keeps up this pace, he will log 70/900/10 this season in his 3rd year. Add that he's improved immensely each season, I'd say he's severely underrated. Let me also add that his combine/pro-day metrics are upper-tier and near elite. I can't imagine what he'd do with a QB. I targeted him in both my dynasty leagues and it's looking like a great move.
gandalas
Footballguy
Made a deal which was laughed at to get Gordon in one of my leagues
eSean JacksonAndre RobertsMy 1st (currently 1st place in league)for:Josh GordonRob HouslerHis 2nd (currently in 3rd place in league)I believe in Gordon a lot...helps that Jackson and Roberts were my 5th and 6th WRs, so I could afford to lose them. Housler I also like for the future.EDIT: I REALLY regretted offering this deal after it was accepted, though. I also am a huge fan of Roberts. Wish I would have just kept his name out of the deal, as I'll bet he would have swung at just DeSean and a 1st.
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Andrew74
Footballguy
I've found that no one in my leagues believe in him. I've shopped him around (he's my7th WR) and there is no interest.
Cato
Footballguy
Feels too rich to me, but I do hope it works out for you. Would like to feel that one of DeSean, Roberts or 1st would be fair value for Gordon... but maybe I need to give Gordon a 2nd look, as I may be dismissing him a bit too much.Made a deal which was laughed at to get Gordon in one of my leagues
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I can't get on board with this.What Green does with his body to catch footballs, is special, and physical. It just can't be measured as easily as other metrics. Green is a better athlete than Julio Jones, who is much more stiff and mechanical. But Julio destroyed the combine, and Green was questioned for his. The combine is great for a lot of things, it can answer a lot of questions. But there are times when it should be thrown out the window, and the Bengals are being rewarded for doing so.
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One VERY interesting quote today and one fact that could be worth something (both from Roto this morning - not sure how to link the exact snippets: http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/nfl/football-player-news?rw=1)
Interesting: Coach Gary Kubiak expressed frustration regarding Ben Tate's string of injuries.
Tate has been hobbled by toe and hamstring issues this season, limiting him to just 43 carries in six games. "It seems like it's been one thing after another. If it's not the toe, the hamstring," Kubiak said. "This has been going on for a few years. We need him."
Tate is a FA after next year. I wonder if Rick Smith shops him this off-season? He has a friendly contract so that would help with the return I would imagine?
Fact: Rod Streater has emerged as the Raiders' "clear-cut" No. 3 wideout.
With Jacoby Ford (foot) on IR all season, Streater has separated himself from Derek Hagan and Juron Criner. However, the No. 3 receiver spot in the Raiders' offense doesn't yield many chances. Streater has just six catches for 74 yards over the last three weeks.
I am still bullish on Streater long term and, maybe wishfully so, feel he will pass DHB next year (who is signed through next year and could be a trade candidate as well?).
Other opinions?
Interesting: Coach Gary Kubiak expressed frustration regarding Ben Tate's string of injuries.
Tate has been hobbled by toe and hamstring issues this season, limiting him to just 43 carries in six games. "It seems like it's been one thing after another. If it's not the toe, the hamstring," Kubiak said. "This has been going on for a few years. We need him."
Tate is a FA after next year. I wonder if Rick Smith shops him this off-season? He has a friendly contract so that would help with the return I would imagine?
Fact: Rod Streater has emerged as the Raiders' "clear-cut" No. 3 wideout.
With Jacoby Ford (foot) on IR all season, Streater has separated himself from Derek Hagan and Juron Criner. However, the No. 3 receiver spot in the Raiders' offense doesn't yield many chances. Streater has just six catches for 74 yards over the last three weeks.
I am still bullish on Streater long term and, maybe wishfully so, feel he will pass DHB next year (who is signed through next year and could be a trade candidate as well?).
Other opinions?
Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
I wouldn't make too much of this. Nothing frustrates an NFL coach in the moment like a player's unavailability. As soon as the player proves to be healthy for a stretch, that frustration tends to vanish.Last July, Kubiak said he thought Tate was capable of becoming "a top player in this league." Reliable beat writer John McClain quickly shot down the Tate-to-Browns rumor last offseason because the Texans are so high on Tate.
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EBF
Footballguy
Yea, that is pretty much what I meant. He is like Reggie Wayne. Athletic in ways that are intangible. He doesn't have great speed and he's not very strong. Purely from a workout warrior standpoint, he's not a special athlete. Which is what I meant. He will never be able to run like Julio and he's nowhere near the size/speed freak that Thomas is. Doesn't mean those guys are better than him, but they are certainly better at certain things than him (and vice versa).
I'm not really on board with the widespread belief that Green is a tier apart from those two. I think it's splitting hairs. I could see any of them outscoring the others in a given year. Green just happened to be hottest earlier this year. He is not going to catch a TD every week over a full season many times in his career though. And he's actually behind Demaryius in yardage despite having 16 more targets, which represents a pretty big % increase.
You could actually make a pretty good case for Demaryius being the best WR in football this year since he's third in the NFL in receiving yards, but barely in the top 30 in targets. Pretty insane. He is a true freak talent. I have him and Julio in one league and it's interesting how people in trade talks all assume that I value Julio above Thomas. Thomas is the total package and he will be a perennial star as long as his achilles allows it.
EBF
Footballguy
There's a few reasons why people don't believe in him. He's not a size/speed guy, he was relatively unknown out of college, and there are a lot of people who think he's just a product of Fitz pulling away all the coverage. I think they are missing the boat to a degree. Roberts is never going to be a top 10 NFL WR, but he does have the potential to be a perennial WR2-WR3 type in the mold of a Derrick Mason or Donald Driver type of player. Kolb called him a "special player" in the offseason and so far he has backed that up by posting solid receiving numbers and relegating the top 15 pick Michael Floyd to the pine. If you can get him for the price of a mediocre WR3, I would say that's fair value. And if you can't get that price when trying to trade him, I would just keep him. I think Arizona might have to let him walk when his contract expires after next season, but I would expect him to get a pretty nice deal from some team needing a solid #2 WR. And he's fully capable of producing startable FF numbers in that scenario.
SSOG
Moderator
Well, sure, you COULD... But then for consistency's sake you'd also have to make the case that Jordy Nelson (9th in yards, 3rd in TDs, 50th in targets) was the best WR in football last year, and that would just be awkward. Better to just acknowledge that when first-ballot HoF QBs start playing out of their minds, their teammates sometimes start putting up insane efficiency numbers.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Just out of curiosity if the Calvin owner offered him straight up for Thomas would you take it today?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
You'd think coaches would eventually figure out that injuries are a part of football and accept that the law of averages means some of their guys are going to be banged up a lot. I understand wanting your best guys out there, but browbeating them doesn't actually help them heal any faster or keep them from getting hurt again in the future. It's every bit as dumb as not giving them water to toughen them up was 50 years ago. No one who has the insane drive to make an NFL roster wants to miss games or be hurt.
Rushmore
Footballguy
Good to see you back in the thread
And I agree, but perhaps Tate should consider going vegan 
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I get what you're saying, but I think you're giving some of these players a bit too much credit while not giving enough to the coaches. You say that "no one who has the insane drive to make an NFL roster wants to miss games or be hurt." I'd counter and say that there are likely plenty of guys in the NFL who are there simply cashing checks due in large part to their unbelievable natural ability. Have they likely put in a ton of physical work to get there? Most likely. Does that mean that they have an insane drive or passion for the game to the point that they really truly care whether or not they're playing, or when playing, performing at the highest level possible? Definitely not all of them. On the flip side, lets make a fairly safe assumption that coaches aren't calling out injured players due to the fact that they don't understand that injuries are part of the game. So why call out an injured player? As you said, that's not going to make them heal faster or prevent future injuries. The only other reason I can surmise is that the coach feels that this "constantly dinged" player is a bit soft, and may milk injuries that wouldn't be an issue for 95% of his teamates. So in this case, browbeating them may very well be an effective shot across the bow to a player who's been a bit soft. Whether or not this is the case for Kubiak calling Tate out, I have no idea. But it's certainly a possibility.
EBF
Footballguy
It would be really hard to turn him down. He's getting older and he's not quite as consistent as you'd hope given his talent, but even with that being the case he's still among the league leaders in yards per game in a season when most people seem to think he's having a bad year. I don't know how you can say no to that. However, I think Thomas is a blossoming star who's criminally underrated. Peyton Manning makes him? Nah, he is just a dominant player who doesn't even need WR1 targets to put up WR1 numbers.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
I respect your call on Thomas; you were high on him early, before the rest of us came around. That said, I have to question this notion.He doesn't need WR1 targets to put up WR1 numbers due to situaiton. Stick him in plenty of other situations, and he would need a lot more targets to get anything near these numbers.
He plays the X, so Denver is not being cute with Thomas. But defenses have so much going on, so much else to account for, including countless audibles, countless weapons, no huddle, etcetera. On top of that, his targets are highly catchable and accurate.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
Thoughts on Cecil Shorts? Potential WR2, or only playmaker on a horrible team?
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
All this talk about Thomas i was wondering how people have their top 10 WRs now. Me personally
1. AJ Green
2. Calvin
3. Julio
4. Harvin
5. Demaryius
6. Cruz
7. Nicks
then it gets tricky for me
8-11 probably fitz, dez, jordy and marshall in some order. Fitz isnt putting up the numbers this year and hes almost 30 but easily the most talented of the lot. Dez is a clown but based on talent he has to be in here. Jordy not as talented but best situation. Marshall strong numbers but a headcase.
1. AJ Green
2. Calvin
3. Julio
4. Harvin
5. Demaryius
6. Cruz
7. Nicks
then it gets tricky for me
8-11 probably fitz, dez, jordy and marshall in some order. Fitz isnt putting up the numbers this year and hes almost 30 but easily the most talented of the lot. Dez is a clown but based on talent he has to be in here. Jordy not as talented but best situation. Marshall strong numbers but a headcase.
jeter23
Footballguy
I posed a question regarding Cobb on Twitter last week and had a few guys putting him in their top 10 dynasty ranks.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Love Cobb. Traded Nicks in a deal for him recently but dont think i could go top 10 just yet.
Concept Coop
Footballguy
PPRGreenCalvinCruzJulioNicksThomasJordyHarvinBryantMarshall
You guys all make great points and the truth is likely somewhere in the proverbial gray area. I found it interesting that the comments came from Kubiak. He has never struck me as the type to make those comments publicly and he, preemptively, has been around the league long enough as a player and coach to understand both sides of the discussion. BTW - agreed that is is good to see F&L back in the thread (even if it's only a cameo appearance).'SayWhat? said:I get what you're saying, but I think you're giving some of these players a bit too much credit while not giving enough to the coaches. You say that "no one who has the insane drive to make an NFL roster wants to miss games or be hurt." I'd counter and say that there are likely plenty of guys in the NFL who are there simply cashing checks due in large part to their unbelievable natural ability. Have they likely put in a ton of physical work to get there? Most likely. Does that mean that they have an insane drive or passion for the game to the point that they really truly care whether or not they're playing, or when playing, performing at the highest level possible? Definitely not all of them. On the flip side, lets make a fairly safe assumption that coaches aren't calling out injured players due to the fact that they don't understand that injuries are part of the game. So why call out an injured player? As you said, that's not going to make them heal faster or prevent future injuries. The only other reason I can surmise is that the coach feels that this "constantly dinged" player is a bit soft, and may milk injuries that wouldn't be an issue for 95% of his teamates. So in this case, browbeating them may very well be an effective shot across the bow to a player who's been a bit soft. Whether or not this is the case for Kubiak calling Tate out, I have no idea. But it's certainly a possibility.'wdcrob said:'Fear & Loathing said:
bengalbuck
Footballguy
I disagree a bit. If you put AJ Green on the Broncos with Peyton and Demaryius on the Bengals with Dalton, you really think DT would put up the same stats as Green?In my opinion, Thomas is very good, but he's getting a big boost from playing with Peyton. Green is elite and is proving with his numbers despite having just an average QB.'EBF said:
JFS171
Footballguy
In defense of DT (full disclosure: I own him nowhere, unfortunately), he's put up these numbers for more than a full season now.
Look what he did with Tebow... point being, Manning certainly helps, and that's probably helping to account for the production despite lack of targets (as Concept Coop pointed out), but DT is still a freak, and would likely enjoy success in practically any offense.
Look what he did with Tebow... point being, Manning certainly helps, and that's probably helping to account for the production despite lack of targets (as Concept Coop pointed out), but DT is still a freak, and would likely enjoy success in practically any offense.
Donsmith753
Footballguy
Since the discussion has shifted primarily to WRs what are Larry Fitz owners doing? I've been trying to shop him in my main league for both DT, Julio and Harvin (offering Fitz+ in both cases) but with no luck so far.
I know he's talented and the law of averages would suggest AZ has to get someone who can throw him the ball at some point but I'm running out of patience.
Also, same question re Kenny Britt. Personally I'm holding him at the moment, bought in the offseason just before his arrest happened
and it seems stupid to move him now. In a situation where I've waited this long am I crazy for valuing him as if he's fully healthy?
I know he's talented and the law of averages would suggest AZ has to get someone who can throw him the ball at some point but I'm running out of patience.
Also, same question re Kenny Britt. Personally I'm holding him at the moment, bought in the offseason just before his arrest happened
and it seems stupid to move him now. In a situation where I've waited this long am I crazy for valuing him as if he's fully healthy?
MAC_32
Footballguy
About this time of year I like to evaluate my team now vs. the roster at the end of the previous year, I can't remember the last time I've done this much roster turnover in such a short period of time.
I have given up Rivers, Chris Johnson, Greg Jennings, Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant, Greg Olsen, Desmond Bishop, and Donald Butler for Trent Richardson, Eric Decker, Steve Smith, Josh Gordon, Sean Weatherspoon, Carson Palmer, Brent Celek, lots of cap relief (at least 20%, probably more like 30), and lots of future picks - including two extra 1's. I used my 2012 #1 draft pick to get RG3 so I could handle parting with Rivers, I've parted with a lot of talent but if Josh Gordon builds upon his October I have a team that is still built to win now but I think is in better position to compete in the future. Looking back the only one that really smarts is Thomas but he is also why I ended up with Richardson, gotta give a little to get a little. I got less for Rivers, Johnson, Jennings, Dez, and Bishop than had I moved them in May but I got rid of all of them just before their values bottomed out too. These trades have cost me one win so far though, barring any stat corrections tomorrow anyway.
I have given up Rivers, Chris Johnson, Greg Jennings, Demaryius Thomas, Dez Bryant, Greg Olsen, Desmond Bishop, and Donald Butler for Trent Richardson, Eric Decker, Steve Smith, Josh Gordon, Sean Weatherspoon, Carson Palmer, Brent Celek, lots of cap relief (at least 20%, probably more like 30), and lots of future picks - including two extra 1's. I used my 2012 #1 draft pick to get RG3 so I could handle parting with Rivers, I've parted with a lot of talent but if Josh Gordon builds upon his October I have a team that is still built to win now but I think is in better position to compete in the future. Looking back the only one that really smarts is Thomas but he is also why I ended up with Richardson, gotta give a little to get a little. I got less for Rivers, Johnson, Jennings, Dez, and Bishop than had I moved them in May but I got rid of all of them just before their values bottomed out too. These trades have cost me one win so far though, barring any stat corrections tomorrow anyway.
I have Fitz in 2 leagues and there is ZERO interest (even lowball interest). I think you have to just hold and hope for the best. As for Britt, I just traded FOR him in one league. His game play is indicative of his health coming around and I think many guys view this as a chance to sell at a reasonable costs. If you can buy at WR20-30 prices, I think it is a bargain and the reward out weighs the risk.Since the discussion has shifted primarily to WRs what are Larry Fitz owners doing? I've been trying to shop him in my main league for both DT, Julio and Harvin (offering Fitz+ in both cases) but with no luck so far.I know he's talented and the law of averages would suggest AZ has to get someone who can throw him the ball at some point but I'm running out of patience.Also, same question re Kenny Britt. Personally I'm holding him at the moment, bought in the offseason just before his arrest happened
Crazy Tony
Footballguy
DYNASTY Thread is awesome but it takes forever to read and if you don't have that much time you only see tidbits.
I'd love to see some people post their Dynasty ranks: Often times they get buried or are outdated. Plus it's tricky.
TOp 25-30 QBs
TOP 100? WRs
T0P 75? RBs.
Top 20 TEs.
Top 300? overall.
I need to make some roster moves to fill some Bye Weeks (DEF and K) but not sure who I want to drop. I have a day or two to do this.
I can make my own decision but I'd love a refresher on who you guys think has value out there. Whatever you got.
I'm disappointed with Rivers, Gates, Bradford, Kendricks, and some other players. Makes sense. I'm always trying to acquire value that I can either trade for picks or other upgrades (who isn't). It always seems like I trade the guy that then breaks out. A recent post listed a bunch of WRs and then followed up by saying non are locks to be top 20 but all have valid chance upside to be there in 2 years. I would agree.
It's that ongoing issue of when to sell high, cut losses, or be patient. Any thoughts, rankings are appreciated. However, if you like guys are my roster, and want to PM or something that would be awesome, I don't want this thread to be about my personal roster moves.
I'm impressed by some rookies. Wonder if some guys are over rated or temporary guys.
I'd love to see some people post their Dynasty ranks: Often times they get buried or are outdated. Plus it's tricky.
TOp 25-30 QBs
TOP 100? WRs
T0P 75? RBs.
Top 20 TEs.
Top 300? overall.
I need to make some roster moves to fill some Bye Weeks (DEF and K) but not sure who I want to drop. I have a day or two to do this.
I can make my own decision but I'd love a refresher on who you guys think has value out there. Whatever you got.
I'm disappointed with Rivers, Gates, Bradford, Kendricks, and some other players. Makes sense. I'm always trying to acquire value that I can either trade for picks or other upgrades (who isn't). It always seems like I trade the guy that then breaks out. A recent post listed a bunch of WRs and then followed up by saying non are locks to be top 20 but all have valid chance upside to be there in 2 years. I would agree.
It's that ongoing issue of when to sell high, cut losses, or be patient. Any thoughts, rankings are appreciated. However, if you like guys are my roster, and want to PM or something that would be awesome, I don't want this thread to be about my personal roster moves.
I'm impressed by some rookies. Wonder if some guys are over rated or temporary guys.
EBF
Footballguy
I don't see it that way. Whatever advantage DT gets from Peyton is offset by the lower number of targets. Peyton doesn't lock onto Thomas like Dalton does with Green. Less opportunities = less catches and yards.If you put DT on the Bengals, his yards per target might drop, but his volume of targets would be a lot higher. What we're seeing in Denver isn't even his ceiling, which is scary.
EBF
Footballguy
Fitz has been untradeable for over a year. I couldn't even get Blackmon for him last year (dev league). Best bet is to hold unless you're in total collapse. In that case move him for picks or prospects. You won't get a young star like Dez for him.Since the discussion has shifted primarily to WRs what are Larry Fitz owners doing? I've been trying to shop him in my main league for both DT, Julio and Harvin (offering Fitz+ in both cases) but with no luck so far.I know he's talented and the law of averages would suggest AZ has to get someone who can throw him the ball at some point but I'm running out of patience.Also, same question re Kenny Britt. Personally I'm holding him at the moment, bought in the offseason just before his arrest happened
Concept Coop
Footballguy
We have no way of knowing this. Personally, I'm on the other side.I don't think Thomas is built to be a target hog, like Brandon Marshall or Roddy White. He doesn't get open in tight space as easily, and might not be best used as a flanker, as Marshall and Roddy often are. He is likely to be the outside guy anywhere he goes, which means he is going to get man coverage anywhere he goes. I'll take a situation where there is less help over the top, more audibles to take advantage of single coverage, and an accurate QB. I don't see AJ Green numbers for Thomas in Cincy.
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Donsmith753
Footballguy
I'm built to win for a long time in this league and so I don't need to trade him but I'm always looking to stay young. Agree with what you say on valuations, zero interest at this point.Fitz has been untradeable for over a year. I couldn't even get Blackmon for him last year (dev league). Best bet is to hold unless you're in total collapse. In that case move him for picks or prospects. You won't get a young star like Dez for him.Since the discussion has shifted primarily to WRs what are Larry Fitz owners doing? I've been trying to shop him in my main league for both DT, Julio and Harvin (offering Fitz+ in both cases) but with no luck so far.I know he's talented and the law of averages would suggest AZ has to get someone who can throw him the ball at some point but I'm running out of patience.Also, same question re Kenny Britt. Personally I'm holding him at the moment, bought in the offseason just before his arrest happened
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'll try, not doing overall though. Rankings aren't an exact science in of themselves, let alone when you merge positions. Not going more than 50 deep at RB and 75 deep at WR though, too cloudy after about that point - I have my favorite darts but they're just that, darts. Little difference between RB51 and RB 70.QB1. Rodgers2. RG33. Luck4. Brees5. Ryan6. Brady7. Big Ben8. Peyton9. Stafford10. Cam11. Eli12. Tannehill13. Romo14. Flacco15. Rivers16. Cutler17. Schaub18. Vick19. Wilson20. Bradford21. Locker22. Tebow23. Carson24. Dalton25. Fitzpatrick26. Freeman27. Weeden28. Hasselbeck29. Ponder30. Alex SmithRB1. Richardson2. Rice3. Foster4. AD5. Shady6. Martin7. Forte8. Mathews9. Charles10. Marshawn11. Reggie12. Spiller13. J Stew14. DMC15. Sproles16. LeShoure17. Gore18. F Jackson19. Bradshaw20. C Johnson21. Ridley22. McGahee23. MJD24. Murray25. Morris26. S Jackson27. Turner28. Law Firm29. R Jennings30. Dwyer31. B Tate32. Hillman33. Lamar Miller34. David Wilson35. Ingram36. D Richardson37. Quizz38. Turbin39. Mendenhall40. S Greene41. P Thomas42. M Bush43. A Green44. Beanie45. DeAng46. Benson47. Hunter48. Ryan Williams49. Donald Brown50. LMJWR1. Calvin2. Green3. Julio4. Harvin5. D Thomas6. Cruz7. Jordy8. Nicks9. Fitz10. AJ11. Marshall12. Roddy13. V Jacks14. Welker15. Decker16. Cobb17. Wallace18. Wayne19. Dez20. Jennings21. Austin22. Stevie23. Colston24. Torrey Smith25. D Moore26. Gordon27. A Brown28. Steve Smith29. Bowe30. Lloyd31. Maclin32. Britt33. D Jackson34. Wright35. Crabtree36. Garcon37. Sid Rice38. Boldin39. Amendola40. Roberts41. V Brown42. Alshon43. Blackmon44. James Jones45. Mal Floyd46. Washington47. Mike Williams48. Mi Floyd49. Randle50. Givens51. Titus52. Hawkins53. Avery54. Lance55. Hartline56. McCluster57. LaFell58. Simpson59. Manningham60. D Baldwin61. Bess62. Holmes63. Graham64. Jenkins65. Sanders66. Little67. Shorts68. Broyles69. Hill70. Hilton71. Sanu72. J Baldwin73. Criner74. Gettis75. BenjaminTE1. Gronk2. Graham3. Hernandez4. Witten5. Rudolph6. Gonzalez7. Gates8. Heath9. Owen10. Celek11. Olsen12. Vernon13. Bennett14. Pitta15. Fleener16. Gresham17. Cook18. Pettigrew19. Allen20. Tamme
matttyl
Footballguy
I assume when you typed Gonzalez, you meant to type "Finley", correct? In a DYNASTY league you'd rather roll with another 8 games of Gonzo over the rest of the career of Finley?
MAC_32
Footballguy
Finley is 21, I want nothing to do with him. Being phased out in Green Bay as he's just not reliable. Best case scenario is he comes back like Bennett is now in New York, I'd rather find out with him on someone else's team. Gonzalez is a tough one to rank, on a team with a Fleener or Rudolph I'd actually rank Gonzalez 5th as he offers you a better chance to win this year than a guy like Owen Daniels or Brent Celek. However, if it were a team with a Witten or Gates he doesn't make any sense - trade one for a younger option.
EBF
Footballguy
He had 745 yards in his last 9 games with Tebow, and that includes a 0 for 0 game when he was still finding his footing. He has 1424 receiving yards in his last 16 NFL games (including playoffs). He is on pace for 1552 yards this year. If you're tempted to attribute all of that improvement to Manning, bear in mind that Thomas is just 24 and has played less than two full seasons of games. He is still learning and improving.
MAC_32
Footballguy
...and received zero help in working on his craft in college given the system he worked in.
SSOG
Moderator
Julio owner offered me Julio for Fitzgerald, Austin, a 2013 first (likely high), and a 2014 first (mid-to-high). I told him to take a hike.Since the discussion has shifted primarily to WRs what are Larry Fitz owners doing? I've been trying to shop him in my main league for both DT, Julio and Harvin (offering Fitz+ in both cases) but with no luck so far.I know he's talented and the law of averages would suggest AZ has to get someone who can throw him the ball at some point but I'm running out of patience.Also, same question re Kenny Britt. Personally I'm holding him at the moment, bought in the offseason just before his arrest happened
Fitz is one of those guys who is going to play well into his mid/late 30's. he works as hard as anyone in the nfl and his game isn't based on pure speed.His mentality and work ethic is the closest to Jerry rice that we've had. He's under rated as his career span will be much longer then other Wr's. I consider him in the same boat as 24-25 yr old Wr's since he'll be producing at an elite level as long as those guys..Julio owner offered me Julio for Fitzgerald, Austin, a 2013 first (likely high), and a 2014 first (mid-to-high). I told him to take a hike.Since the discussion has shifted primarily to WRs what are Larry Fitz owners doing? I've been trying to shop him in my main league for both DT, Julio and Harvin (offering Fitz+ in both cases) but with no luck so far.I know he's talented and the law of averages would suggest AZ has to get someone who can throw him the ball at some point but I'm running out of patience.Also, same question re Kenny Britt. Personally I'm holding him at the moment, bought in the offseason just before his arrest happened
