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*** Official 2013 San Diego Chargers **** (1 Viewer)

On the brightside the pass rush will still look great most of the time even without Ingram. I mean, they practice against the SD OL all week so they will only be completely ineffective once a week -- gameday.

Luckily, this team is so deep Telesco can afford to package picks to move up in the draft.

 
BoltBacker said:
On the brightside the pass rush will still look great most of the time even without Ingram. I mean, they practice against the SD OL all week so they will only be completely ineffective once a week -- gameday.

Luckily, this team is so deep Telesco can afford to package picks to move up in the draft.
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I was excited to see Ingram play this year...he was always so close to a lot of sacks last season.

Any change Mouton goes inside, and Teo plays a little on the outside? He sucks at coverage anyway...and I think he started at ND on the outside the first year....

 
BoltBacker said:
On the brightside the pass rush will still look great most of the time even without Ingram. I mean, they practice against the SD OL all week so they will only be completely ineffective once a week -- gameday.

Luckily, this team is so deep Telesco can afford to package picks to move up in the draft.
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I sense some hostility.

 
sigh

They're talking to Freeney. Maybe they could sign Tebow and convince him to convert to an OLB.

At least they've got Larry English. :excited:

 
DanFouts said:
BoltBacker said:
On the brightside the pass rush will still look great most of the time even without Ingram. I mean, they practice against the SD OL all week so they will only be completely ineffective once a week -- gameday.

Luckily, this team is so deep Telesco can afford to package picks to move up in the draft.
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I was excited to see Ingram play this year...he was always so close to a lot of sacks last season.
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I completely agree with you. Seems to me plenty of people looked at the stat line and assumed Ingram was a failure last year but I was very impressed with him when he was on the field. He was very close to making big plays and was only held back by his inexperience. Which is why this injury is doubly troublesome. Assuming he bounced back 100% with his physical explosiveness he'll be missing not just an entire season of experience but an entire season AND offseason of experience. It's like he'll be in week #17 of his career, or worse if there's rust.

 
Gr00vus said:
Maybe they could sign Tebow and convince him to convert to an OLB.
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They should sign Tebow because they are going to need 3+ starting QB's this season behind that OL.

Honestly, if they had simply traded away Rivers and blown this whole thing up, started from scratch drafting best player available I wouldn't have had any negative comments toward Telesco. They could have drafted Barkley in the 3rd and given up a future conditional 7th rounder for Tebow as week#1 starter. If Tebow was a complete flop they just draft a franchise QB next year at the top of the 1st. It just seems like a completely disjointed plan on the part of Telesco and it's not even week 1 of the preseason and the team is scrambling to fill holes. The cement footed Clary at guard. The undersized Gilchrist a starting strong safety? Even the most ardent Charger fan can't believe Dunlap was the plan at LT.

When I made the prediction that whoever followed Norv Turner was going to have a tough time living up to his "disastrous" stint in SD I had no idea it would fall apart this fast.

 
BoltBacker said:
Which is why this injury is doubly troublesome. Assuming he bounced back 100% with his physical explosiveness he'll be missing not just an entire season of experience but an entire season AND offseason of experience. It's like he'll be in week #17 of his career, or worse if there's rust.
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I'm more worried about whether he'll ever get back to 100% after this injury. If so, it seems likely he'll be a long term quality player - assuming this isn't the start of an injury plagued career.

 
Gr00vus said:
BoltBacker said:
Which is why this injury is doubly troublesome. Assuming he bounced back 100% with his physical explosiveness he'll be missing not just an entire season of experience but an entire season AND offseason of experience. It's like he'll be in week #17 of his career, or worse if there's rust.
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I'm more worried about whether he'll ever get back to 100% after this injury. If so, it seems likely he'll be a long term quality player - assuming this isn't the start of an injury plagued career.
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he's just going to go down as another AJ Smith first round bust.

 
1. Nice signing of Dwight Freeney. Doesn't look like SD Management are keen on Bridgewater or Clowney.

2. Someone tell your 3rd round pick Keenan Allen to trash all his old photos of him wearing a Raiders hat. It's all over twitter. Bad form. HTH

 
So Telesco is going to pay an old/declining Freeney $5.25mil this year despite the fact he proved almost completely ineffective in a 3-4 defense last season?

Given the choice I'd much rather have a younger Antwan Barnes for the $4mil over 3 seasons he's making for the Jets. I know, I know, there's no way Telesco could have envisioned that football players might get injured. Why on earth would he plan for two pass rushers on the same roster?

Didn't Jermon Bushrod sign for ~$7mil/season to start at LT in CHI? WTF is Telesco doing?

 
BoltBacker said:
So Telesco is going to pay an old/declining Freeney $5.25mil this year despite the fact he proved almost completely ineffective in a 3-4 defense last season?

Given the choice I'd much rather have a younger Antwan Barnes for the $4mil over 3 seasons he's making for the Jets. I know, I know, there's no way Telesco could have envisioned that football players might get injured. Why on earth would he plan for two pass rushers on the same roster?

Didn't Jermon Bushrod sign for ~$7mil/season to start at LT in CHI? WTF is Telesco doing?
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I'm very disappointed in the Telesco era so far.

 
Bucky86 said:
cstu said:
BoltBacker said:
So Telesco is going to pay an old/declining Freeney $5.25mil this year despite the fact he proved almost completely ineffective in a 3-4 defense last season?

Given the choice I'd much rather have a younger Antwan Barnes for the $4mil over 3 seasons he's making for the Jets. I know, I know, there's no way Telesco could have envisioned that football players might get injured. Why on earth would he plan for two pass rushers on the same roster?

Didn't Jermon Bushrod sign for ~$7mil/season to start at LT in CHI? WTF is Telesco doing?
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I'm very disappointed in the Telesco era so far.
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Well that didn't take long.
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My thinking exactly.

Keep in mind it took YEARS of neglect for AJ to build the worst OL in the NFL. I would have thought Telesco would improve upon that by accident if nothing else. It may be a worse pass protecting group than what SD thought they had at this time last year. Just imagine what this group will look like after an injury or two. The best OLmen on this roster may come from the final cut down date from other teams. Hardwick/Fluker are the only two guys guaranteed a starting job, and should be the only two guaranteed roster spots.

Actually, I would much rather have the 2012 starting OL of Alabama rather than this group. People are actually being charitable ranking this group as the 32nd OL based on the assumption that there aren't college teams that at the very least have a group with better potential upside. That's pretty remarkable in itself.

 
Bucky86 said:
Gr00vus said:
Bucky86 said:
'Gr00vus said:
'Bucky86 said:
Negative Nancy's in here. I trust our new GM :shrug:
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Because...
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Why not? He was in high demand and everything I've heard has been positive. I'll look at the glass half full. Try it some time.
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What's the glass looking like now?
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:confused:

Are we really judging a GM that is in the process of rebuilding a wrecked team halfway through the off-season, and not even single pre-season game played??
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What is your over/under for wins this season?

 
Bucky86 said:
Gr00vus said:
Bucky86 said:
'Gr00vus said:
'Bucky86 said:
Negative Nancy's in here. I trust our new GM :shrug:
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Because...
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Why not? He was in high demand and everything I've heard has been positive. I'll look at the glass half full. Try it some time.
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What's the glass looking like now?
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:confused:

Are we really judging a GM that is in the process of rebuilding a wrecked team halfway through the off-season, and not even single pre-season game played??
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everyone needs to step off the ledge, we wont be more than a .500 team for a couple years.

rome wasnt build in a day. The team has so many needs, LB, DE, Oline, CB. Lets give this front office a couple years

 
The big free agent moves were an off-injured CB Derek Cox, backup caliber LT King Dunlap, and Woodhead. I'm fine with Cox - at least he's good when he's healthy - and Woodhead is cheap and adds versatility but Dunlap should not be starting in the NFL.

In the draft they take Fluker - fine with that since OL was the primary need and all the top ones were off the board. Now in the 2nd instead of simply waiting to take the best ILB in the draft, Arthur Brown, they somehow decide to give up a 4th for the privilege of drafting the over-rated T'eo. I'm happy with Allen in the 3rd, that was a great value pick.

 
cstu said:
The big free agent moves were an off-injured CB Derek Cox, backup caliber LT King Dunlap, and Woodhead. I'm fine with Cox - at least he's good when he's healthy - and Woodhead is cheap and adds versatility but Dunlap should not be starting in the NFL.

In the draft they take Fluker - fine with that since OL was the primary need and all the top ones were off the board. Now in the 2nd instead of simply waiting to take the best ILB in the draft, Arthur Brown, they somehow decide to give up a 4th for the privilege of drafting the over-rated T'eo. I'm happy with Allen in the 3rd, that was a great value pick.
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:goodposting:

Good take in general. Given the OL's already drafted, Fluker was a decent start at fixing the line. Not sure he's got quick enough feet to hold the edge, but he's a beast and you will use him somewhere and he will maul the guy accross from him. I'm very happy you jumped ahead of the Raiders and saved us from taking T'eo. Not that he'll be a bust, but I agree that he's got nothing more than 2 down LB potential. I like your Keenan Allen pick (gotta love the fact he's a Raiders fan!), seriously he's pretty good and I could see him overtaking Floyd.

 
Any early reports on Keenan Allen? Waldman is very high on his talent and Sig appears to be as well with his entusiasm being tempered by injury and off the field risks. Any early reports on his actual, you know, football play?

 
Sabertooth said:
Any early reports on Keenan Allen? Waldman is very high on his talent and Sig appears to be as well with his entusiasm being tempered by injury and off the field risks. Any early reports on his actual, you know, football play?
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I heard nothing about him except HatGate.

OMGOMGOMG HE WORE A RAIDERS HAT!#!@#!!

 
cstu said:
Now in the 2nd instead of simply waiting to take the best ILB in the draft, Arthur Brown, they somehow decide to give up a 4th for the privilege of drafting the over-rated T'eo.
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I was happy with their early moves. Cox was one of the best young CB options on the market and an area of desperate need. Not giving a bunch of $ to keep a sub-mediocre Vasquez in a soft OG market was another good move imo. But how much $ was actually saved by not bringing back Phillips, Barnes, and Gaither? Can anyone say this roster is currently stronger without them?

Even if T'eo isn't over-rated the glaring weakness at OG and CB could have both been filled instead of taking an ILB. People seem focused on whether T'eo can be a three down LB but on most third downs in today's NFL aren't teams employing a nickel package? There is no way I want to see T'eo on the field and Donald Butler on the sidelines no matter what the down and distance is.

It's not an accident that the cupboards seem completely bare when it comes to depth. Is it too early to hold the current regime for their decisions so far? I don't think so. Not at all. I'm sure the Matt Millen apologists will chime in and remind me that these guys are getting paid a lot of $ to make these decisions... so what? That doesn't mean they are good decisions.

 
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cstu said:
Sabertooth said:
Any early reports on Keenan Allen? Waldman is very high on his talent and Sig appears to be as well with his entusiasm being tempered by injury and off the field risks. Any early reports on his actual, you know, football play?
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I heard nothing about him except HatGate.

OMGOMGOMG HE WORE A RAIDERS HAT!#!@#!!
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http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/e...r-keenan-allen-sorry-for-sporting-raiders-cap

Chargers WR Keenan Allen sorry for sporting Raiders cap

Just this news on Rotoworld so far:

Third-round WR Keenan Allen (knee) was a full participant as the Chargers opened rookie minicamp Friday.

Allen tore his left PCL last October and was extraordinarily slow to recover. He was only 90 percent as of late April, which likely contributed to Allen's draft-day slide. Apparently, he's healthy know. We'll form a stronger opinion about Allen's rookie-year fantasy outlook once we see him in preseason action.

May 10 - 3:07 PM

Source: Michael Gehlken on Twitter
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Can anyone give me a summary of the state of the O-line? Like a comparison from last year to this year. If I've kept track correctly, the only returning starter is Center - Hardwick, right? They drafted Fluker and signed Starks for their tackles, which should be a pretty decent combo. So who are the guards and what is the outlook on them in 2013? From boltbacker's post at the top of this page, I'm guessing they are scrubs and might be replaced with cuts from other teams when rosters get trimmed down.

 
Bucky86 said:
FF Ninja said:
Can anyone give me a summary of the state of the O-line? Like a comparison from last year to this year. If I've kept track correctly, the only returning starter is Center - Hardwick, right? They drafted Fluker and signed Starks for their tackles, which should be a pretty decent combo. So who are the guards and what is the outlook on them in 2013? From boltbacker's post at the top of this page, I'm guessing they are scrubs and might be replaced with cuts from other teams when rosters get trimmed down.
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Clary is RG now I believe
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According to Bitonti's OL rankings it's Ohrnberger at LG and Rinehart at RG, but Clary has been the starting RG during OTA's.

IF everything works out with Starks and Fluker and Clary can be a decent RG then the OL doesn't look as awful as it was looking before. A lot of if's though and it's takes an OL a long time to gel.

 
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FF Ninja said:
Can anyone give me a summary of the state of the O-line? Like a comparison from last year to this year. If I've kept track correctly, the only returning starter is Center - Hardwick, right? They drafted Fluker and signed Starks for their tackles, which should be a pretty decent combo.
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Last year, they had two starting caliber OLmen in Hardwick/Vasquez but neither is even average. This year they probably have two starting caliber OLmen in Hardwick/Fluker, but keep in mind Fluker is a rookie and not one of the elite rookie OLmen in the draft either.

Overall...

C - Same, although Hardwick is a veteran that has mentioned retirement in the past and is just one year older. I've never thought he was as good as some people think.

OG's - Worse, and I wasn't high on Vasquez as a pass blocker. I just haven't seen Clary do anything that makes me think he is an NFL offensive lineman. This transition may be his last shot in the league.

OT's - Depends. On the right side Fluker can't be worse than Clary so there's an improvement right there. Still, some people don't think he has the quickness to block on the outside and while he'll likely make a big impact in the running game I have my doubts he's going to help much in pass protection. On the left side they went with the devil we didn't know last year(UFA Mike Harris) to the devil's we know this year(Starks/Dunlap). Last year maybe the 31st best OL was PHI and the fact Dunlap had to play was a large part of that.... so I'll let you connect the dots there. Starks is big but I don't think it's a coincidence that every PIT passing highlight features Roethlisberger with a DE that has him dead to rights but Big Ben somehow finds a way to complete the pass. I have no confidence Rivers can stand up to the type of abuse Big Ben has been constantly under and be productive.

IMO it's a "were they 30th last year and 32nd this year, or were they 32nd last year and 30th this year" type of argument. It would be one thing if this was a solid defense and had a stable of capable RB's to keep the defense honest but on defense they have one starting CB, one starting S, and no pass rushers. Combine that with the fact that after Mathews gets hurt the workload falls on the shoulders of Woodhead/Ronnie Brown you can pretty much see the writing on the wall. You'll have a poor pass blocking team forced into passing situation early and often.

 
cstu said:
According to Bitonti's OL rankings it's Ohrnberger at LG and Rinehart at RG, but Clary has been the starting RG during OTA's.
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I wouldn't be surprised if guys like Clary and Gilchrist are being given extra work because they are new to their positions. Their roster spots may even hinge on displaying the ability to play multiple positions although it seems a little early to give up on Gilchrist(a 2nd rounder). Still, with the way Cason struggled the past two years and Gilchrist was never able to wrestle the starting position away from him it makes you wonder whether he has a future in the league.

 
FF Ninja said:
Can anyone give me a summary of the state of the O-line? Like a comparison from last year to this year. If I've kept track correctly, the only returning starter is Center - Hardwick, right? They drafted Fluker and signed Starks for their tackles, which should be a pretty decent combo. So who are the guards and what is the outlook on them in 2013? From boltbacker's post at the top of this page, I'm guessing they are scrubs and might be replaced with cuts from other teams when rosters get trimmed down.
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Starks - Rinehart - Hardwick - Clary- Fluker

It's a significant upgrade to last year's O line despite what some people say. One aspect that goes completely over looked is the run blocking. Everyone loves to point to the pass blocking, but most don't realize we were 28th rushing the ball. If anyone closely watches the line play during runs, they will agree with me that it was horrid last season. We got no push, consistently let defensive players into the back field on runs. It was a down right disaster. Here is where we will see the true upgrade this season.

Fluker isn't known as the best pass blocker in the draft. He was known as the best, ELITE, run blocker. He is truly a road grader. He will get a push off the line. He can down block and eliminate DT's giving our RB's the edge. He is a MASSIVE upgrade to Clary in this regard.

Now let's talk about Clary. I'm happy someone finally realized he was much better utilized as a OG, than a tackle. He couldn't handle the outside edge, move him inside and you let him use his biggest asset - his strength and nastiness. Giving him a short area to work in and letting him ignore anyone but the guy directly in front of him is the best thing he could possibly hope for. Vasquez last season was a fine pass blocker, but was awful in run downs. He simply couldn't get a push inside. He was consistently pushed back off the ball. I don't believe this will happen to Clary. He has a strong base with long arms that will help maintain his base and keep the DT's out of the back field. We should actually be able to see some running lanes with him and Fluker providing some daylight. Not sure we'll see Clary being the road grader Fluker is, but he should be able to hold his position and create lanes, something that Vasquez wasn't able to do.

Hardwick didn't have the best of seasons, we could probably afford to upgrade him next season, but he's at least very adept at providing all the line calls and picking up blitzes (at least according to Rivers). Just hoping he can stay healthy and maybe Molk can push him for the starting job this season.

Rinehart is an upgrade to Green if he can stay healthy. He's excelled when he's been able to get in the lineup. Health is an issue though. He's ended up on IR almost every year. Troutman will challenge for the starting position. This should be an interesting camp battle to look at. Ideally Troutman wins this job outright since he's our only longterm prospect other than Fluker.

Starks should be a significant upgrade to Harris. I know he didn't grade out fantastic last season on PFF, but he was also coming back early from an ACL reconstruction. From all reports he's in great shape since he's been able to train all offseason and not have to rehab any injuries. He should be a steady addition on the outside and will form likely the biggest bookend tandem in the league with Fluker. Ideally he can come into camp closer to 330lbs than the 345lbs he's played at which would give him a bit more mobility to handle pass rushers. Being a full year removed from his ACL should only help. Don't discount how valuable his experience and intelligence will play in this pickup. So many of the issues last season between Harris and Green were because they couldn't handle blitzes/stunts that defenses would throw at them. There were so many missed assignments that it was difficult for Rivers to have any continuity in the passing game (not to mention the ridiculous amount of 7 step drops that Norv stubbornly called every damn time).

It won't be an all pro line, but it's a significant upgrade from what we threw out there last season. Add in a short quick passing game and an effective running game (crossing fingers Matthews can actually stay on the field) and this offense will be back in the top 10.

 
BoltBacker said:
cstu said:
According to Bitonti's OL rankings it's Ohrnberger at LG and Rinehart at RG, but Clary has been the starting RG during OTA's.
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I wouldn't be surprised if guys like Clary and Gilchrist are being given extra work because they are new to their positions. Their roster spots may even hinge on displaying the ability to play multiple positions although it seems a little early to give up on Gilchrist(a 2nd rounder). Still, with the way Cason struggled the past two years and Gilchrist was never able to wrestle the starting position away from him it makes you wonder whether he has a future in the league.
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I like the move they made moving Gilchrist to SS. I never thought he had the speed to play CB, but he seemed to have some good instincts and actually was projected to be a S coming out of college. We just desperately needed CB's the past 2 years. He should improve our pass coverage downfield and hopefully not hurt us in run support. I do think he can develop into a legit starting caliber S.

 
Beerguzzler said:
BoltBacker said:
cstu said:
According to Bitonti's OL rankings it's Ohrnberger at LG and Rinehart at RG, but Clary has been the starting RG during OTA's.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be surprised if guys like Clary and Gilchrist are being given extra work because they are new to their positions. Their roster spots may even hinge on displaying the ability to play multiple positions although it seems a little early to give up on Gilchrist(a 2nd rounder). Still, with the way Cason struggled the past two years and Gilchrist was never able to wrestle the starting position away from him it makes you wonder whether he has a future in the league.
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I like the move they made moving Gilchrist to SS. I never thought he had the speed to play CB, but he seemed to have some good instincts and actually was projected to be a S coming out of college. We just desperately needed CB's the past 2 years. He should improve our pass coverage downfield and hopefully not hurt us in run support. I do think he can develop into a legit starting caliber S.
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I didn't realize the bolded part. Maybe I'm just bent because I thought Bigby was a nice compliment to Weddle when he was healthy and it seems like another instance of Telesco creating another glaring hole without addressing it.

It was interesting to hear your thoughts, especially on OL. I don't agree with a lot of it and even some of it that I do agree with doesn't make me any more hopeful for this season(Rinehart/Starks will be improvements on Green/Harris? Well, I would certainly hope so) but we haven't seen the group play together so time will tell.

For what it's worth I think a big reason SD ranked 28th was due to the quality of their backup RB's and I don't see that as really addressed this offseason. Trouble is, so many other things went un-addressed it doesn't really stand out. At least there is a starter at the position. I do think they should run the ball better but when Mathews gets hurt this team is going to rely way too heavily on Rivers again and I just don't think this group can pass block any better than last year.

 
Beerguzzler said:
It's a significant upgrade to last year's O line despite what some people say.
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pretty much agree with everything in your posti think this line has the potential to surpriseI would also add something about the new line coach
 
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Jammer to the Donkeys.....

Apparently the Broncos are the Chargers East now with Jammer, Vasquez, Phillips......

If they actually use Jammer as a CB, it will be a huge mistake...he looked so bad last year. But if he plays safety.......

 
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If he plays safety, he'll still be a liability. He was a solid player for us over the years, but it was time to go young. Our defense was in dire need of speed. It will be a mistake if the donkeys bench Rahim Moore for him.

 
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