[Dynasty] 2014 Draft Prospects (1 Viewer)

[Milkman]

Mason is not a safe pick. He was running behind a great OL with an elite running blocking OT. He is also some what of a power back but he only weighs 200 pounds. Not a great combo for the NFL.

 

[MattFancy]

Mason is not a safe pick. He was running behind a great OL with an elite running blocking OT. He is also some what of a power back but he only weighs 200 pounds. Not a great combo for the NFL.

What about last season when Auburn was awful and he still had over 1000yds and had a slightly better YPC?

 

[DaveL]

Mason is not a safe pick. He was running behind a great OL with an elite running blocking OT. He is also some what of a power back but he only weighs 200 pounds. Not a great combo for the NFL.

What about last season when Auburn was awful and he still had over 1000yds and had a slightly better YPC?

In 2012 Auburn didn't have anyone on the all SEC o-line, first or second team.

For the record, in 2013 only the center made it (first team)

 

[ZWK]

Does anyone have thoughts on what changed for Carlos Hyde this season? Statistically, his 2013 was way better than any of his previous seasons. He had an elite 7.3 yards per carry this year after averaging a run-of-the-mill 5.3 ypc from 2010-12, and other stats that I've looked at paint a similar picture. What changed to make his numbers go from averageish to among the best in college football?

 

[Concept Coop]

Does anyone have thoughts on what changed for Carlos Hyde this season? Statistically, his 2013 was way better than any of his previous seasons. He had an elite 7.3 yards per carry this year after averaging a run-of-the-mill 5.3 ypc from 2010-12, and other stats that I've looked at paint a similar picture. What changed to make his numbers go from averageish to among the best in college football?

I'd be interested to know, too. He wasn't on my radar last year, so I have no idea.

 

[Milkman]

Does anyone have thoughts on what changed for Carlos Hyde this season? Statistically, his 2013 was way better than any of his previous seasons. He had an elite 7.3 yards per carry this year after averaging a run-of-the-mill 5.3 ypc from 2010-12, and other stats that I've looked at paint a similar picture. What changed to make his numbers go from averageish to among the best in college football?

Maturity. His coach said he was a different person coming off his suspension. The coach even went as far as saying Hyde was very immature the first couple years at Ohio State. Carlos himself said the 3 game suspension was "one of the hardest things I have had to go through". He was bothered by the fact that he let his team down. Looks like he average 5.3 ypc when he wasn't fully applying himself. Then he gets this wake up call and it hit him hard. The 7.3 ypc is Carlos Hyde fully applying himself.

 

[EBF]

Simple an answer as it may be, remember that some of these players are still growing and developing. For a more radical example, look at Christine Michael's high school recruiting page. He's listed at 5'11" 195. "Size" is cited as his major weakness. He was downright lanky at the time. Fast forward a few years and he's a horse. Gained 25-30 pounds of pure muscle. He's literally a different person than he was back then. Sometimes when a guy takes a big leap forward from one college season to the next, this is probably a big contributing variable.

That's the scariest part of trying to evaluate high school players/freshmen in devy leagues. It's not that you can't evaluate their talent. It's that they may or may not be finished products. I never would've drafted Michael out of high school when he was a lanky 195 pounder. I would've had no way of knowing that he would transform into a different human over the next few years. I think this is a BIG part of why there are so many HS recruiting busts and so many diamonds in the rough. You can accurately assess their talent, but you're aiming at a moving target.

By the time they're 20-21 they're closer to a finished product, but even so an offseason of maturity or slightly improved commitment in the weight room can make a huge difference.

 

[ZWK]

Actually, I can broaden my question & look at this more systematically.

These guys improved by a lot (in terms of their efficiency numbers) from 2012 to 2013:

Jeremy Hill

Andre Williams

James Wilder

Carlos Hyde

Bishop Sankey

And these guys declined by a lot (by similar metrics) from 2012 to 2013:

Dri Archer

De'Anthony Thomas

Ka'Deem Carey

Charles Sims

Marion Grice

What happened with these 10 guys?

Sims faced tougher competition after transferring from Houston to WVU, and Thomas dealt with injuries and had other well-publicized struggles this year, but other than that I don't know much about what happened. Hyde, Hill, and Carey are the ones that interest me most, since they're the ones who seem to me like the most promising prospects.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Actually, I can broaden my question & look at this more systematically.

These guys improved by a lot (in terms of their efficiency numbers) from 2012 to 2013:

Jeremy Hill

Andre Williams

James Wilder

Carlos Hyde

Bishop Sankey

And these guys declined by a lot (by similar metrics) from 2012 to 2013:

Dri Archer

De'Anthony Thomas

Ka'Deem Carey

Charles Sims

Marion Grice

What happened with these 10 guys?

Sims faced tougher competition after transferring from Houston to WVU, and Thomas dealt with injuries and had other well-publicized struggles this year, but other than that I don't know much about what happened. Hyde, Hill, and Carey are the ones that interest me most, since they're the ones who seem to me like the most promising prospects.

For some reason it seems to like you're completely ignoring the most obvious answer: random variance

Guys like Hill, Wilder, Sankey, and all the guys on that decline list didn't put up numbers that were really all that different from prior years, a couple lucky breaks on long runs, a slightly easier/harder schedule, better/worse o-line play, or really just straight up luck and chance alone can easily describe any difference. If you look at any NFL RBs yard per carry from year to year you'll find it's as variable as differences these guys showed relatively speaking.

Hyde and Andre Williams are the only ones who really had a huge difference in performance from one year to the next imo.

 

[EBF]

Yea, I doubt those guys lost talent overnight. Some of it is probably just variance. Team changes, coaching changes, and injuries probably played a role in the decliners. Some of those guys also saw their role change, which could've affected things one way or another. Wilder was clear 2nd fiddle to Freeman this year and DAT was utilized differently in the second half of the season with the emergence of Marshall and Tyner.

 

[ZWK]

Actually, I can broaden my question & look at this more systematically.

These guys improved by a lot (in terms of their efficiency numbers) from 2012 to 2013:

Jeremy Hill

Andre Williams

James Wilder

Carlos Hyde

Bishop Sankey

And these guys declined by a lot (by similar metrics) from 2012 to 2013:

Dri Archer

De'Anthony Thomas

Ka'Deem Carey

Charles Sims

Marion Grice

What happened with these 10 guys?

Sims faced tougher competition after transferring from Houston to WVU, and Thomas dealt with injuries and had other well-publicized struggles this year, but other than that I don't know much about what happened. Hyde, Hill, and Carey are the ones that interest me most, since they're the ones who seem to me like the most promising prospects.

For some reason it seems to like you're completely ignoring the most obvious answer: random variance

Guys like Hill, Wilder, Sankey, and all the guys on that decline list didn't put up numbers that were really all that different from prior years, a couple lucky breaks on long runs, a slightly easier/harder schedule, better/worse o-line play, or really just straight up luck and chance alone can easily describe any difference. If you look at any NFL RBs yard per carry from year to year you'll find it's as variable as differences these guys showed relatively speaking.

Hyde and Andre Williams are the only ones who really had a huge difference in performance from one year to the next imo.

Random variance is definitely part of it (and probably a bigger part with the low-carry guys like Wilder & Archer), but I'm trying to figure out if there's anything else. The changes for the other guys aren't small.

Let's look at Carey. YPC dropped from 6.4 to 5.4, which is a 1 point drop.

But in 2012, his YPC was deflated by a ton of red zone carries. Outside the red zone, his YPC was 7.5 in 2012 and only 5.8 in 2013. That's a drop of 1.7, almost as big as Hyde's 2 point increase.

The biggest change seems to be in the number of long runs - he broke off a 20+ yard run on 10.0% of his non-red-zone attempts in 2012 (23/230), and only 5.1% in 2013 (15/293). But his receiving stats are also down. Meanwhile Arizona's SOS and performance have remained pretty stable.

When I stuck all his stats into my formula, he came out as the #4 most effective RB in college football in 2012 on a per play basis (behind only Dri Archer, De'Anthony Thomas, and Kerwynn Williams - three guys who had an unconventional role, weak competition, or both). In 2013, he came out slightly below average (45th out of 86).

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Actually, I can broaden my question & look at this more systematically.

These guys improved by a lot (in terms of their efficiency numbers) from 2012 to 2013:

Jeremy Hill

Andre Williams

James Wilder

Carlos Hyde

Bishop Sankey

And these guys declined by a lot (by similar metrics) from 2012 to 2013:

Dri Archer

De'Anthony Thomas

Ka'Deem Carey

Charles Sims

Marion Grice

What happened with these 10 guys?

Sims faced tougher competition after transferring from Houston to WVU, and Thomas dealt with injuries and had other well-publicized struggles this year, but other than that I don't know much about what happened. Hyde, Hill, and Carey are the ones that interest me most, since they're the ones who seem to me like the most promising prospects.

For some reason it seems to like you're completely ignoring the most obvious answer: random variance

Guys like Hill, Wilder, Sankey, and all the guys on that decline list didn't put up numbers that were really all that different from prior years, a couple lucky breaks on long runs, a slightly easier/harder schedule, better/worse o-line play, or really just straight up luck and chance alone can easily describe any difference. If you look at any NFL RBs yard per carry from year to year you'll find it's as variable as differences these guys showed relatively speaking.

Hyde and Andre Williams are the only ones who really had a huge difference in performance from one year to the next imo.

Random variance is definitely part of it (and probably a bigger part with the low-carry guys like Wilder & Archer), but I'm trying to figure out if there's anything else. The changes for the other guys aren't small.

Let's look at Carey. YPC dropped from 6.4 to 5.4, which is a 1 point drop.

But in 2012, his YPC was deflated by a ton of red zone carries. Outside the red zone, his YPC was 7.5 in 2012 and only 5.8 in 2013. That's a drop of 1.7, almost as big as Hyde's 2 point increase.

The biggest change seems to be in the number of long runs - he broke off a 20+ yard run on 10.0% of his non-red-zone attempts in 2012 (23/230), and only 5.1% in 2013 (15/293). But his receiving stats are also down. Meanwhile Arizona's SOS and performance have remained pretty stable.

When I stuck all his stats into my formula, he came out as the #4 most effective RB in college football in 2012 on a per play basis (behind only Dri Archer, De'Anthony Thomas, and Kerwynn Williams - three guys who had an unconventional role, weak competition, or both). In 2013, he came out slightly below average (45th out of 86).

A few possible reasons: He didn't play against the Division I team Northern Arizona, so he may be getting unfairly punished in regard to SOS. He also didn't have a 14.6 YPC game on 25 carries for 366 rushing yards like he did last year; I'm definitely not one for excluding a player's best game, but it's probably worth noting that game is a very significant outlier, which is probably to be expected since it's one of the greatest statistical games by a NCAA RB ever I would think. It's also possible that Pac 12 defenses were improved this season, Arizona's O-line was worse this season, Arizona's offensive gameplan changed, he got a higher percentage of his carries against superior competition this year as opposed to last, etc. etc. And of course there's always just plain old bad luck to consider.

Carey was pretty incredibly consistent this year, with 115+ rushing yards in every single game, and his YPC never dropped under 4.3 in any game whereas he had 2 games with under a 4.0 YPC last season. Maybe it's just me, but I think you gotta be grasping at straws to be unimpressed with a player's statistics and production when he gets 1885 rushing yards with 19 TDs. I can understand not liking him based on his running style or how he looks to you when you watch him play, but from a production and statistics standpoint he passes with flying colors imo.

 

[BlackMamba24]

With what seems like alot of depth in this draft class, is this a good draft to try and trade back and gain more picks (especially for a rebuilding team)? If there is an opportunity to trade back from say the middle of the first round (1.05-1.07) and pick up 2 late firsts or a late first & early 2nd, it seems like there is still a lot of similar level talent to have and an opportunity to double up on prospects.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

I know it's as early as it gets, but I'm having trouble organizing the rookie values for 2014 compared existing rosters.

Unless Sammy goes to an awful situation or a RB goes to a great situation the 1.1 is a lot more valuable than the 1.2. I don't think there's much difference between 1.2 and about 1.9 then again from about 1.9 to the mid 2nd. Then things get hazy. It's tough to draw a line in the sand at 1.9, it could swing a couple of picks either way, but somewhere in that range. I have picks 1, 3, 8, 9, and 12. If I can find a buyer for 3 I'll move down. If I can move 12 for a future 1 I probably will. I'm hanging onto 1, 8, and 9 until at least after the NFL draft unless blown away.

That's a great haul of picks... how did you manage that collection? I thought I was shrewd working for the 1st, 10th, and 12th in addition to my 16. I'm fairly sold on Watkins at the top unless, like you said, the landing after the draft is horrendous.

 

[MAC_32]

Ben Tate, Sean Weatherspoon, Greg Jennings, and (gulp) Josh Gordon. Well, three outta four isn't bad.

More pieces involved, but those were the feature pieces.

 

[Whitney26]

I know Bishop Sankey has been mentioned a lot. I just got my hands on his Junior Pro Day numbers. Not saying he will, but he'll be the #1 RB if he can match these numbers next month at the combine. Even if we add a tenth, it's still pretty damn impressive.

Height 5:09.7
Weight 203 lbs
Arms 31 1/8
Hands 9 3/8
40 Time 4.41
10 Yard 1.46
20 Yard 2.48
Short Shuttle 3.90
3-Cone 6.53

Vertical 39 1/2"
Broad Jump 11'
Bench 33 Reps

 

[Milkman]

33 reps is pretty beastly.

 

[Brewtown]

Sankey is the man!!!!!!

 

[Ilov80s]

33 reps is pretty beastly.

Who cares how much a RB can bench? I would rather see numbers on the squat.

 

[NightStalkers]

I know it's as early as it gets, but I'm having trouble organizing the rookie values for 2014 compared existing rosters. For example, I have the 1.1 in a dyno as well as a 1.10, 1.12, and 1.16. A guy in the league has the 3 and 4 picks. Are his 2 picks much more valuable than my 1.1? Maybe offer Lacy for both of his picks? Or is it way lopsided? That would result in some combo of Watkins, Hyde, and maybe Mason. Things will shake up, but is it better to move for picks now with the unknown or wait it out? Having 3 of the top 4 picks would be stellar, but what value is going to be expected?

I'd say hang onto Lacy and the #1. Of course there is value in having multiple top picks, i.e. more chances to hit big. But those players are all potential right now until they play an NFL game. Whereas Lacy has done it and well. Also the value of the #1 can only increase with time. You'll have a better feel after the combine and draft for what the top5 may look like.

I think I would stay put as well and take who you feel is best at 1.1 and see who falls in your other 3 picks. In my 12 team ppr league just about everyone needs RB help so despite this RB class being supposedly weak I think they will go higher than they normally would allowing WR to fall. Since this WR class is deep you could load up on WR at the bottom end and be happy with what you get. I guess it all just comes down to what teams 2-9 really need and if they draft based on need or BPA.

A quick mock of my league based on biggest need:

Seastrunk

Watkins

Bridgewater

Evans

Carey

Ebron

Lee

Benjamin

Mason

Hyde

Amaro

Sankey

From what I heard in your league Boltz 1.1 will be BPA, no matter the position...

 

[Milkman]

33 reps is pretty beastly.

Who cares how much a RB can bench? I would rather see numbers on the squat.

That's a good point. If Sankey can bench 225 33 times that means he most likely has a huge upper body. Couple that with the fact he only weighs 203 and we might be looking at a very thin lower body.

 

[EBF]

I know Bishop Sankey has been mentioned a lot. I just got my hands on his Junior Pro Day numbers. Not saying he will, but he'll be the #1 RB if he can match these numbers next month at the combine. Even if we add a tenth, it's still pretty damn impressive.

Height 5:09.7

Weight 203 lbs

Arms 31 1/8

Hands 9 3/8

40 Time 4.41

10 Yard 1.46

20 Yard 2.48

Short Shuttle 3.90

3-Cone 6.53

Vertical 39 1/2"
Broad Jump 11'
Bench 33 Reps

Do you have a source on this because those numbers seem pretty suspect? 1.46 10 yard split would've been fastest in the draft last year. 6.53 three cone is an unreal time. 11' broad jump is virtually unheard of for a 5'9" athlete. That's almost Marqise Goodwin level stuff and he's an Olympic long jumper. The bench press is on par with an interior line prospect.

All of those times/numbers just seem way too good to be true.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

That was my reaction too. If those verify next month Sankey's stock will soar.

 

[Brewtown]

http://youtu.be/S6kmq_sqblg

Watch this video and try not to fall in love with Bishop Sankey....

I double dawg dare ya....

 

[Brewtown]

http://youtu.be/S6kmq_sqblg

Watch this video and try not to fall in love with Bishop Sankey....

I double dawg dare ya....

For you English majoring scout types I'll drop some adjectives and verbs:

VISION

NORTH/SOUTH RUNNER

GREAT BURST

SPEED

TOUGH RUNNER

GREAT CUTTING ABILITY

WILL BE A GOOD ONE CUT RUNNER

GREAT HANDS

ATHLETICISM

DOESN'T GO DOWN EASY

A NOSE FOR THE END ZONE

Did I miss anything?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

http://youtu.be/S6kmq_sqblg

Watch this video and try not to fall in love with Bishop Sankey....

I double dawg dare ya....

For you English majoring scout types I'll drop some adjectives and verbs:

VISION

NORTH/SOUTH RUNNER

GREAT BURST

SPEED

TOUGH RUNNER

GREAT CUTTING ABILITY

WILL BE A GOOD ONE CUT RUNNER

GREAT HANDS

ATHLETICISM

DOESN'T GO DOWN EASY

A NOSE FOR THE END ZONE

Did I miss anything?

under 200 lbs?

does look good though.

 

[BoltzNBrew]

From what I heard in your league Boltz 1.1 will be BPA, no matter the position...

lol...little birdy told ya? I really don't want to take a RB with 1.2 so no idea what I'm going do. Combine can't get here fast enough.

 

[Whitney26]

33 reps is pretty beastly.

Who cares how much a RB can bench? I would rather see numbers on the squat.

That's a good point. If Sankey can bench 225 33 times that means he most likely has a huge upper body. Couple that with the fact he only weighs 203 and we might be looking at a very thin lower body.

540 Squat. 345 Power Clean.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

33 reps is pretty beastly.

Who cares how much a RB can bench? I would rather see numbers on the squat.

That's a good point. If Sankey can bench 225 33 times that means he most likely has a huge upper body. Couple that with the fact he only weighs 203 and we might be looking at a very thin lower body.

540 Squat. 345 Power Clean.

whitney what is your source for these numbers?

 

[Whitney26]

I know Bishop Sankey has been mentioned a lot. I just got my hands on his Junior Pro Day numbers. Not saying he will, but he'll be the #1 RB if he can match these numbers next month at the combine. Even if we add a tenth, it's still pretty damn impressive.

Height 5:09.7

Weight 203 lbs

Arms 31 1/8

Hands 9 3/8

40 Time 4.41

10 Yard 1.46

20 Yard 2.48

Short Shuttle 3.90

3-Cone 6.53

Vertical 39 1/2"
Broad Jump 11'
Bench 33 Reps

Do you have a source on this because those numbers seem pretty suspect? 1.46 10 yard split would've been fastest in the draft last year. 6.53 three cone is an unreal time. 11' broad jump is virtually unheard of for a 5'9" athlete. That's almost Marqise Goodwin level stuff and he's an Olympic long jumper. The bench press is on par with an interior line prospect.

All of those times/numbers just seem way too good to be true.

I agree. They do seem too good to be true. However, it's from a very good source that's connected. I suppose we'll just have to see.

 

[football fan]

http://youtu.be/S6kmq_sqblg

Watch this video and try not to fall in love with Bishop Sankey....

I double dawg dare ya....

For you English majoring scout types I'll drop some adjectives and verbs:

VISION

NORTH/SOUTH RUNNER

GREAT BURST

SPEED

TOUGH RUNNER

GREAT CUTTING ABILITY

WILL BE A GOOD ONE CUT RUNNER

GREAT HANDS

ATHLETICISM

DOESN'T GO DOWN EASY

A NOSE FOR THE END ZONE

Did I miss anything?

under 200 lbs?

does look good though.

After watching,

I had two immediate impressions:

1) Can he do that in the NFL?

2) How often does he break long runs (more than twenty yards)?

 

[tdmills]

Yeah, I know this is an odd thing to say, but I really think most of the non-FF draftniks are missing the boat on Seastrunk big time.

He's going to murder the combine, then shoot up to where he should have been in rankings all along. And some will say he's just benefiting from the combine because he's a workout warrior, which won't be true at all.

Obviously the injury in the middle of an incredible season shifted the spotlight away from him at the worst time. But people are really missing on this guy.

He'll definitely kill the combine and i like him, but still not 100% sold on him as a workhorse NFL RB.

I'm not sure he has to be viewed as a workhorse. Bernard had a few TD's and some explosive plays and he was annointed top-10, top-5 for some people. He hasn't proven his own team even WANTS him to attempt a workhorse role, nevermind whether he can handle it or not.

If Seastrunk looks natural catching the ball at the combine, watch out.

The guy is a really good prospect (a better prospect than Bernard was IMO). With Ray Rice, MJD, and Shady McCoy there were obvious reasons why they weren't first round picks (lack of prototypical size for the first two, bad workout for McCoy). I think it's going to be harder to find a real flaw with Seastrunk when the dust settles. His production is strong. He has the right kind of frame for an elusive type of back. Very solid for his height. He makes game-changing plays.

The only major negatives I can see are that he plays in a gimmicky offense where every RB produces, he's had some minor injury issues, and he has a bit of an oddball personality from what I gather. I'm not sure that will be enough to keep him out of the first. Provided that he catches the ball pretty well, I see him being rated approximately along the same lines as Gio Bernard/David Wilson/DeAngelo Williams. So I think a team in the late 1st might snatch him. We'll see.

It's a bit of a surprise to me that he's not going higher in mocks and that the draft sites don't seem to like him a little more. While I don't quite view him as a slam dunk lock, at this exact moment in time I actually have him rated as the best NFL prospect at RB plying his wares in college football right now. I'd take him over Gurley/Yeldon/Gordon and none of the freshmen have shown enough yet to be rated higher.

I might have only Lesean McCoy rated higher as a dynasty RB over Todd Gurley right now in the entire world. But you have Lache Seastrunk rated higher over Gurley...smh.

Seastrunk is not a natural RB, he's a fast guy trying to play RB. What does that mean? It means he doesn't have those instincts to play that position and it shows up on the field all the time. That's why you'll see him running at 45 degree angles to the sideline and then up field(won't work in the league). I literally saw him stop during a run at the 2nd level this year vs Kansas because he was unsure of where to go next. Vs Iowa State this year, he was 1 on 1 with a defender and made a move. It didn't work, so he just turned his back into the defender and tried to get a couple yards. Really? Your back? Try that in the NFL and he'll get drilled. He's not going to have all of that time in the NFL, like he had because of the benefit in Baylor's really wide offense. He has poor vision, many times I saw him running into his blockers. He doesn't break many tackles and he doesn't look smooth doing it. I was always a big C. Patterson supporter (see an article I wrote last year http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2013/04/04/the-elusiveness-factor-patterson-austin-woods-by-nick-whalen/) and Patterson is smooth in making people miss. Smooth=making it look easy. Seastrunk is the opposite of that, in that it doesn't come natural and looks hard for him to do it. I also don't think he possesses great lateral agility. He has some, but if you're going to be a speed back...you need to make people miss or you're a Michael Bennett type.

My comparison for Seastrunk is Spiller/David Wilson. He's a great athlete, but doesn't have a feel for the position. Hence, some FF owners are going to geek all over him because of his speed. However, that doesn't always translate to the NFL. Reggie Bush has 10X better lateral agility, but he didn't have the mindset to play RB in the NFL for many years...just like Seastrunk. Spiller still is struggling, David Wilson, etc.

I can definitely understand your criticisms against Seastrunk's vision, as he can be pretty indecisive at picking a lane at times, and he's shown a bit of a penchant for dancing behind the line of scrimmage flat footed, particularly in that Iowa State game.

But I really don't get your criticism of his lateral agility, he has arguably the best lateral agility of any RB in this draft class imo. He leaves defenders grasping at air after making a lateral juke literally all the time. And check out his jukes at 0:21 and especially the play starting at 0:39 of this video, there's a few examples of him displaying some special lateral agility skills that not many NFL players possess.

Being the best in lateral agility in a weak RB class doesn't mean much. EJ Manuel was the highest draft QB last year, does that much much...not at all. The juke at :21 was okay, but is classic him bouncing to the outside. The juke at :39 was very good, however he rarely displays that...at the end of the same play he runs into his own OL(vision/out of control/etc).

In your same video clip, look at 1:44. He gets to the 2nd level with ease(due to scheme primarily and OL play). Then due to a lack of instincts/vision/etc, cuts at a 90 degree angle and gets tackled. That's #1 agility in this class? Lets remember that was from his highlight tape.

He tends to jump cut as well, which stops momentum and lets defensive pursuit get to him. It will be worse in the league.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

http://youtu.be/S6kmq_sqblg

Watch this video and try not to fall in love with Bishop Sankey....

I double dawg dare ya....

For you English majoring scout types I'll drop some adjectives and verbs:

VISION

NORTH/SOUTH RUNNER

GREAT BURST

SPEED

TOUGH RUNNER

GREAT CUTTING ABILITY

WILL BE A GOOD ONE CUT RUNNER

GREAT HANDS

ATHLETICISM

DOESN'T GO DOWN EASY

A NOSE FOR THE END ZONE

Did I miss anything?

under 200 lbs?

does look good though.

After watching,

I had two immediate impressions:

1) Can he do that in the NFL?

2) How often does he break long runs (more than twenty yards)?

watched the Tre mason video on the same youtube page.

to me, Mason looks much thicker in the lower body and more explosive.

Bishop looks "smooth" and like he was gliding out there in some of those runs

 

[Bronx Bomber]

Regarding Seastruck; why are so many people assuming that he's going to end up on a team with a bad scheme, an OL that can't open holes for him and that they won't be able to design plays to get him outside? His talent excelled in the scheme he was in in college but that also means if he has a competent OC then he should be in a good scheme as a pro. He only needs one or two plays with that explosive ability to turn an ok FF score into a nice one.

 

[Whitney26]

http://youtu.be/S6kmq_sqblg

Watch this video and try not to fall in love with Bishop Sankey....

I double dawg dare ya....

For you English majoring scout types I'll drop some adjectives and verbs:

VISION

NORTH/SOUTH RUNNER

GREAT BURST

SPEED

TOUGH RUNNER

GREAT CUTTING ABILITY

WILL BE A GOOD ONE CUT RUNNER

GREAT HANDS

ATHLETICISM

DOESN'T GO DOWN EASY

A NOSE FOR THE END ZONE

Did I miss anything?

under 200 lbs?

does look good though.

After watching,

I had two immediate impressions:

1) Can he do that in the NFL?

2) How often does he break long runs (more than twenty yards)?

I have a pretty awesome breakdown on the top RBs for this years class from a production standpoint. When I get home, I'll try to figure out how to post the tables.

For Sankey (327 Carries):

108 Missed Tackles

50 10+ Runs

21 20+ Runs

I have the complete breakdown for Carey, Sankey, Hyde, Mason, Seastrunk and Sims. If I can figure out to post the tables, I will. However, Sankey led in every category listed above. Of course, he had the 2nd most carries from the group:

Carey 349

Hyde 208

Mason 317

Seastrunk 158

Sims 208

His missed tackle % is 35.18% which is significantly higher than everyone else. The others as far as Missed Tackles are concerned:

Carey 93 (28.18%)

Hyde 57 (29.53%)

Mason 67 (22.79%)

Seastrunk 20 (13.61%)

Sims 33 (16.75%)

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Yeah, I know this is an odd thing to say, but I really think most of the non-FF draftniks are missing the boat on Seastrunk big time.

He's going to murder the combine, then shoot up to where he should have been in rankings all along. And some will say he's just benefiting from the combine because he's a workout warrior, which won't be true at all.

Obviously the injury in the middle of an incredible season shifted the spotlight away from him at the worst time. But people are really missing on this guy.

He'll definitely kill the combine and i like him, but still not 100% sold on him as a workhorse NFL RB.

I'm not sure he has to be viewed as a workhorse. Bernard had a few TD's and some explosive plays and he was annointed top-10, top-5 for some people. He hasn't proven his own team even WANTS him to attempt a workhorse role, nevermind whether he can handle it or not.

If Seastrunk looks natural catching the ball at the combine, watch out.

The guy is a really good prospect (a better prospect than Bernard was IMO). With Ray Rice, MJD, and Shady McCoy there were obvious reasons why they weren't first round picks (lack of prototypical size for the first two, bad workout for McCoy). I think it's going to be harder to find a real flaw with Seastrunk when the dust settles. His production is strong. He has the right kind of frame for an elusive type of back. Very solid for his height. He makes game-changing plays.

The only major negatives I can see are that he plays in a gimmicky offense where every RB produces, he's had some minor injury issues, and he has a bit of an oddball personality from what I gather. I'm not sure that will be enough to keep him out of the first. Provided that he catches the ball pretty well, I see him being rated approximately along the same lines as Gio Bernard/David Wilson/DeAngelo Williams. So I think a team in the late 1st might snatch him. We'll see.

It's a bit of a surprise to me that he's not going higher in mocks and that the draft sites don't seem to like him a little more. While I don't quite view him as a slam dunk lock, at this exact moment in time I actually have him rated as the best NFL prospect at RB plying his wares in college football right now. I'd take him over Gurley/Yeldon/Gordon and none of the freshmen have shown enough yet to be rated higher.

I might have only Lesean McCoy rated higher as a dynasty RB over Todd Gurley right now in the entire world. But you have Lache Seastrunk rated higher over Gurley...smh.

Seastrunk is not a natural RB, he's a fast guy trying to play RB. What does that mean? It means he doesn't have those instincts to play that position and it shows up on the field all the time. That's why you'll see him running at 45 degree angles to the sideline and then up field(won't work in the league). I literally saw him stop during a run at the 2nd level this year vs Kansas because he was unsure of where to go next. Vs Iowa State this year, he was 1 on 1 with a defender and made a move. It didn't work, so he just turned his back into the defender and tried to get a couple yards. Really? Your back? Try that in the NFL and he'll get drilled. He's not going to have all of that time in the NFL, like he had because of the benefit in Baylor's really wide offense. He has poor vision, many times I saw him running into his blockers. He doesn't break many tackles and he doesn't look smooth doing it. I was always a big C. Patterson supporter (see an article I wrote last year http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2013/04/04/the-elusiveness-factor-patterson-austin-woods-by-nick-whalen/) and Patterson is smooth in making people miss. Smooth=making it look easy. Seastrunk is the opposite of that, in that it doesn't come natural and looks hard for him to do it. I also don't think he possesses great lateral agility. He has some, but if you're going to be a speed back...you need to make people miss or you're a Michael Bennett type.

My comparison for Seastrunk is Spiller/David Wilson. He's a great athlete, but doesn't have a feel for the position. Hence, some FF owners are going to geek all over him because of his speed. However, that doesn't always translate to the NFL. Reggie Bush has 10X better lateral agility, but he didn't have the mindset to play RB in the NFL for many years...just like Seastrunk. Spiller still is struggling, David Wilson, etc.

I can definitely understand your criticisms against Seastrunk's vision, as he can be pretty indecisive at picking a lane at times, and he's shown a bit of a penchant for dancing behind the line of scrimmage flat footed, particularly in that Iowa State game.

But I really don't get your criticism of his lateral agility, he has arguably the best lateral agility of any RB in this draft class imo. He leaves defenders grasping at air after making a lateral juke literally all the time. And check out his jukes at 0:21 and especially the play starting at 0:39 of this video, there's a few examples of him displaying some special lateral agility skills that not many NFL players possess.

Being the best in lateral agility in a weak RB class doesn't mean much. EJ Manuel was the highest draft QB last year, does that much much...not at all. The juke at :21 was okay, but is classic him bouncing to the outside. The juke at :39 was very good, however he rarely displays that...at the end of the same play he runs into his own OL(vision/out of control/etc).

In your same video clip, look at 1:44. He gets to the 2nd level with ease(due to scheme primarily and OL play). Then due to a lack of instincts/vision/etc, cuts at a 90 degree angle and gets tackled. That's #1 agility in this class? Lets remember that was from his highlight tape.

He tends to jump cut as well, which stops momentum and lets defensive pursuit get to him. It will be worse in the league.

I'd say being the best in any trait of an entire draft class means you're pretty damn good in regard to that trait, weak draft class or not. The juke at :21 was basically him 1 on 1 with a defender; and you can't even perform a classic bounce to the outside on a swing pass (which is what that play was) because you're already on the outside by the time the ball gets to you.

As for the play at 1:44, yeah that cut was a waste of time and a perfect example of him trying to do too much, but I wouldn't say it was an example of poor vision. He was surrounded by 4 defenders with no blockers in sight, there was no hole for him anywhere, he should have just dove forward for the extra couple yards. But I think plays like that where RBs try to do too much can in large part be coached away. LeSean McCoy did stuff like that all the time in college, but after some NFL coaching, plays like that where he tries to do too much happen a lot less frequently.

 

[ZWK]

http://youtu.be/S6kmq_sqblg

Watch this video and try not to fall in love with Bishop Sankey....

I double dawg dare ya....

For you English majoring scout types I'll drop some adjectives and verbs:

VISION

NORTH/SOUTH RUNNER

GREAT BURST

SPEED

TOUGH RUNNER

GREAT CUTTING ABILITY

WILL BE A GOOD ONE CUT RUNNER

GREAT HANDS

ATHLETICISM

DOESN'T GO DOWN EASY

A NOSE FOR THE END ZONE

Did I miss anything?

under 200 lbs?

does look good though.

After watching,

I had two immediate impressions:

1) Can he do that in the NFL?

2) How often does he break long runs (more than twenty yards)?

I have a pretty awesome breakdown on the top RBs for this years class from a production standpoint. When I get home, I'll try to figure out how to post the tables.

For Sankey (327 Carries):

108 Missed Tackles

50 10+ Runs

21 20+ Runs

I have the complete breakdown for Carey, Sankey, Hyde, Mason, Seastrunk and Sims. If I can figure out to post the tables, I will. However, Sankey led in every category listed above. Of course, he had the 2nd most carries from the group:

Carey 349

Hyde 208

Mason 317

Seastrunk 158

Sims 208

His missed tackle % is 35.18% which is significantly higher than everyone else. The others as far as Missed Tackles are concerned:

Carey 93 (28.18%)

Hyde 57 (29.53%)

Mason 67 (22.79%)

Seastrunk 20 (13.61%)

Sims 33 (16.75%)

What's your source on the missed tackle data?

Greg Peshek has charted broken tackles for 9 RBs including Sankey and 3 of the other guys on your list, and Sankey came in 7th out of 9 in broken tackle rate overall, 3rd out of 4 from your list (though he did this midseason and only charted part of the season, e.g. 115 carries for Sankey).

I've also done some missed tackle counting while watching RB games on Youtube, and Sankey is 7th out of the 10 RBs that I've looked at in missed tackle rate (4th out of 6 for the guys on your list).

 

[ZWK]

http://youtu.be/S6kmq_sqblg

Watch this video and try not to fall in love with Bishop Sankey....

I double dawg dare ya....

For you English majoring scout types I'll drop some adjectives and verbs:

VISION

NORTH/SOUTH RUNNER

GREAT BURST

SPEED

TOUGH RUNNER

GREAT CUTTING ABILITY

WILL BE A GOOD ONE CUT RUNNER

GREAT HANDS

ATHLETICISM

DOESN'T GO DOWN EASY

A NOSE FOR THE END ZONE

Did I miss anything?

under 200 lbs?

does look good though.

After watching,

I had two immediate impressions:

1) Can he do that in the NFL?

2) How often does he break long runs (more than twenty yards)?

I have a pretty awesome breakdown on the top RBs for this years class from a production standpoint. When I get home, I'll try to figure out how to post the tables.

For Sankey (327 Carries):

108 Missed Tackles

50 10+ Runs

21 20+ Runs

I have the complete breakdown for Carey, Sankey, Hyde, Mason, Seastrunk and Sims. If I can figure out to post the tables, I will. However, Sankey led in every category listed above. Of course, he had the 2nd most carries from the group:

Carey 349

Hyde 208

Mason 317

Seastrunk 158

Sims 208

His missed tackle % is 35.18% which is significantly higher than everyone else. The others as far as Missed Tackles are concerned:

Carey 93 (28.18%)

Hyde 57 (29.53%)

Mason 67 (22.79%)

Seastrunk 20 (13.61%)

Sims 33 (16.75%)

For long gains, Sankey was very good this year but not so good in 2012. Here is the percent of non-red-zone carries going for 20+ yards, for 12 of the top RB prospects (league average is around 5.5%):

In 2013:

8.4% Andre Williams

7.9% Bishop Sankey

7.9% Henry Josey

7.6% James White

7.6% Lache Seastrunk

7.5% Antonio Andrews

7.5% Devonta Freeman

6.7% Carlos Hyde

6.3% Marion Grice

6.1% Charles Sims

5.1% Ka'Deem Carey

3.6% Tre Mason

In 2012:

10.1% James White

10.0% Ka'Deem Carey

8.6% Lache Seastrunk

8.5% Charles Sims

7.0% Devonta Freeman

6.7% Antonio Andrews

5.4% Carlos Hyde

4.7% Tre Mason

4.1% Marion Grice

3.7% Andre Williams

3.3% Bishop Sankey

(Henry Josey missed the 2012 season; in 2011 he was at 10.6%.)

2012-13, combined (including Josey's 2011):

9.1% Henry Josey (24/263)

8.5% James White (25/293)

8.0% Lache Seastrunk (21/261)

7.3% Devonta Freeman (16/220)

7.3% Ka'Deem Carey (38/523)

7.2% Andre Williams (30/418)

7.1% Charles Sims (20/282)

7.1% Antonio Andrews (33/467)

6.2% Carlos Hyde (20/325)

5.7% Bishop Sankey (29/510)

5.6% Marion Grice (12/215)

4.0% Tre Mason (16/402)

 

[Soulfly3]

Sorry to sidetrack this - But how valuable does Jace Amaro become if NE takes him first round (or any round for that matter) from a fantasy perspective.

I wasnt targeting TE at all for my rebuild, but at 1.5ppr for TE's and cook and miller as the TE's I inherited, Amaro could be absolutely monsterous from what I hear.

I havent seen enough of him to know, so if anyone does... please share!

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Where should we be valuing Watkins in dynasty right now? Top 10 WR? Top 15?

Would you trade Brown for him? Allen? Jeffery? Marshall?

Trying to place his value in relation to the vets, I know it's harder not knowing his landing spot.

 

[voiceofunreason]

Where should we be valuing Watkins in dynasty right now? Top 10 WR? Top 15?

Would you trade Brown for him? Allen? Jeffery? Marshall?

Trying to place his value in relation to the vets, I know it's harder not knowing his landing spot.

From what I can gather, most are valuing him just ahead of Patterson (though that fluctuates a lot from one person to another). I'm guessing very close to top 10.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Florida State junior RB Devonta Freeman will declare for the draft on Monday, according to NFL Network's Mike Silver.
The buzz has been pointing in this direction since the Noles won the National Championship. Our own Josh Norris is a massive fan of Freeman due to his Ahmad Bradshaw-esque style. The junior has a chance to contribute early thanks to his pass protection skill, not to mention Freeman attacks contact and beats it frequently.

Source: Mike Silver on Twitter

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Vanderbilt senior WR Jordan Matthews requested tapes of Senior Bowl CBs in preparation of the game.
"Talk about work ethic and pro approach," Senior Bowl Executive Director Phil Savage said. We agree. Matthews isn't the most talented athletically, and he never had a great quarterback or surrounding talent at Vanderbilt, but the kid is a winner because he's invested in little details like requesting tape of a bunch of players that will be lucky to carve out a few years in the NFL. Matthews is the SEC's career record holder for receptions and receiving yards. The former Alabama prep star is a potential first-round pick.

Source: Phil Savage on Twitter

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Scouts Inc.'s Todd McShay ranks Louisville junior QB Teddy Bridgewater No. 12 overall, and UCF redshirt junior QB Blake Bortles No. 15 on his big board.
Bridgewater drops from No. 8 to No. 12, and Bortles falls one spot from No. 14. "There are concerns about his long-term durability because of his frame, and he doesn't have as high of a ceiling as our No. 2 QB prospect, UCF's Blake Bortles," McShay writes. Our own Josh Norris has very few questions regarding Bridgewater's talent and evaluation, but expect to read criticisms throughout the process.

Source: ESPN

 

[Faust]

2014 NFL Draft: Benjamin adds 1st-round potential to deep WR class


By Dane Brugler | NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst

January 10, 2014 1:43 pm ET

Florida State redshirt sophomore wide receiver Kelvin Benjamin has decided to bypass his remaining eligibility and enter the 2014 NFL Draft. The 6-6, 220-pound target has the size/speed combination and overall catching radius that will have him high on most draft boards.

Benjamin is currently rated as the No. 4 wide receiver and No. 24 prospect overall by NFLDraftScout.com for the 2014 class. He is the 19th wide receiver to declare early and the 82nd underclassmen prospect overall, extending this year's record class for non-seniors. Benjamin is the second redshirt sophomore wide receiver to leave school early, joining Texas A&M's Mike Evans, but the former Seminole is older for his class, turning 23 years old in February.

Few have Benjamin's blend of size and speed, a potential matchup nightmare for defensive backs at the next level. He has long arms and does a nice job full extending to create an enormous catching radius for cornerbacks to try and defend. Benjamin needs to show more development and focus at the catch point to complete catches and do a better job finishing with the ball. He is still raw in several areas, including his route running, but his long strides and natural tools makes him a very attractive prospect early in the draft.

Benjamin caught the game-winning touchdown in the BCS Championship game and finished the 2013 season with several career-bests: 54 catches, 1,011 receiving yards, 15 touchdowns and 18.7 yards per catch average

 

[Faust]

2014 Shrine Game: Top-10 prospects to watch


By Dane Brugler | NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst

January 12, 2014 2:03 am ET

There are a handful of teams still alive in the NFL playoffs, fighting for a spot in Super Bowl XLVIII. But for the majority of NFL teams, the 2013 season is a distant memory as scouts, coaches and the entire front office have already begun the pre-draft process. And one of the first chapters of that journey is the annual East-West Shrine Game in St. Petersburg, Fla., an all-star exhibition game for senior prospects.

The 89th East-West Shrine Game will be played at Tropicana Field on Saturday, January 18 with daily practices throughout the week. For a complete schedule of the week, click here.

The Senior Bowl in Mobile, Ala. the following week is the premiere prospect All-Star game, but the Shrine Game has dozens of future NFL starters as well. Over 100 players from last year's game were either drafted or signed as undrafted free agents, including third round picks LB Sio Moore (Raiders), OT Terron Armstead (Saints) and DB Kayvon Webster (Broncos).

This year's Shrine Game is loaded with NFL talent once again. Below are 10 of the top players for this year's match-up and definitely names to watch this week.

1. QB Jimmy Garoppolo, Eastern Illinois (6-2, 222, 4.78, #10)
The quarterback who broke most of Tony Romo's school passing records, Garoppolo is much more than a funny looking last name. He isn't the biggest and lacks a huge arm, but he has an above average understanding of offensive football and uses his quick eyes and touch to push the ball downfield. Garoppolo is not only considered the top quarterback in this game, but he might be the best overall prospect.

2. CB E.J. Gaines, Missouri (5-10, 195, 4.44, #31)
A good-sized athlete for the position, Gaines does a nice job in coverage and is extremely physical vs. the run. He has good feet and does a nice job staying balanced in his movements to blanket receivers and make aggressive plays on the ball. Gaines is arguably the best defensive prospect in this all-star contest.

3. DL Will Clarke, West Virginia (6-6, 273, 4.83, #98)
A player who was a pleasant surprise when I turned on his game tape, Clarke is a flexible, greased up athlete for his size. He is at his best when he uses his length, strong hands and first step explosiveness to set the edge or win in one-on-one situations. Clarke isn't a household name, but I expect him to become better known after this week.

4. CB Pierre Desir, Lindenwood (6-1, 205, 4.56, #3)
A tall, long athlete, Desir has an interesting background and he can flat out play. And it will be interesting to see him matched up against FBS talents throughout the week. A native of Haiti, Desir started his collegiate career at Washburn before transferring to Lindenwood and he now has his sights on the NFL.

5. DE Cassius Marsh, UCLA (6-4, 260, 4.92, #99)
A fiery competitor, Marsh has good size and strength with the quickness and redirection skills to be a factor rushing the passer and defending the run. He needs to keep his emotions under control and develop his rush moves, but he's a motivated defender who projects best as a one-gap end who can move inside on passing downs.

6. WR T.J. Jones, Notre Dame (6-0, 195, 4.54, #7)
With Tyler Eifert gone, Jones stepped up and led the Irish in receiving this past season, finishing his senior year with a career-best in catches (70), receiving yards (1,108) and touchdowns (9). He's a natural plucker with strong hands and projects as a down-the-road starter at the next level.

7. DT Justin Ellis, Louisiana Tech (6-2, 357, 5.34, #70)
A load to handle, Ellis has a large body with a wide frame, using his size and momentum to surge through the offensive line and disrupt the backfield. He needs to show he is more than just a bull rusher, but his nonstop motor, ferocious demeanor and much improved ball awareness are impressive.

8. C Gabe Ikard, Oklahoma (6-3, 298, 5.17, #64)
A very athletic lineman, Ikard has a quick first step and easily gets into position with the flexibility to mirror in space and take care of business at the second level. His lack of power shows up when he doesn't win with angles or leverage, but his smooth body control and overall mobility will give him a chance in the NFL.

9. ILB DeDe Lattimore, South Florida (6-0, 237, 4.83, #34)
One of the top middle linebacker prospects in the draft, Lattimore led South Florida in tackles this past season and his competitive motor shows on tape. He needs to improve his awareness to be in better position to make plays, but he is physical at the point of attack and fills hard against the run.

10. OT Justin Britt, Missouri (6-6, 315, 5.28, #68)
After his junior season was ended by an ACL injury, Britt returned to the field and started all 14 games at left tackle for Missouri in 2013. He has a wide base with good bend and flexibility in his kickslide to protect the edge and keep the pocket clean. Britt isn't the strongest, but his shuffle and smarts are NFL quality.

Five players I'm looking to step up after so-so senior seasons:
1. DE Chidera Uzo-Diribe, Colorado
2. QB Jeff Matthews, Cornell
3. CB Ricardo Allen, Purdue
4. CB Carrington Byndom, Texas
5. DB Alden Darby, Arizona State

Five “small school” players who will make a name for themselves:
1. OL Dakota Dozier, Furman
2. DE Larry Webster III, Bloomsburg
3. WR Matt Hazel, Coastal Carolina
4. RB Tim Flanders, Sam Houston State
5. DL Zach Moore, Concordia

 

[ShaHBucks]

I know Bishop Sankey has been mentioned a lot. I just got my hands on his Junior Pro Day numbers. Not saying he will, but he'll be the #1 RB if he can match these numbers next month at the combine. Even if we add a tenth, it's still pretty damn impressive.

Height 5:09.7

Weight 203 lbs

Arms 31 1/8

Hands 9 3/8

40 Time 4.41

10 Yard 1.46

20 Yard 2.48

Short Shuttle 3.90

3-Cone 6.53

Vertical 39 1/2"

Broad Jump 11'

Bench 33 Reps

Do you have a source on this because those numbers seem pretty suspect? 1.46 10 yard split would've been fastest in the draft last year. 6.53 three cone is an unreal time. 11' broad jump is virtually unheard of for a 5'9" athlete. That's almost Marqise Goodwin level stuff and he's an Olympic long jumper. The bench press is on par with an interior line prospect.

All of those times/numbers just seem way too good to be true.

I agree. They do seem too good to be true. However, it's from a very good source that's connected. I suppose we'll just have to see.

Whitney26 is the greatest poster of all time

 

[coolnerd]

J. Hill LSU is declaring for the draft

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Rotoworld:

Florida State junior RB Devonta Freeman will declare for the draft on Monday, according to NFL Network's Mike Silver.
The buzz has been pointing in this direction since the Noles won the National Championship. Our own Josh Norris is a massive fan of Freeman due to his Ahmad Bradshaw-esque style. The junior has a chance to contribute early thanks to his pass protection skill, not to mention Freeman attacks contact and beats it frequently.

Source: Mike Silver on Twitter

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

J. Hill LSU is declaring for the draft

Like this guy. kind of a moron, but this makes the draft class better