Retired Cop Kills Man for Texting (1 Viewer)

[[icon]]

And we're going down this route again...

My condolences to the family of the victim. If this ends up being how it looks, I hope the shooter never sees the light of day again.

Have fun with Timmay.... Cheers

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I could give you plenty of info, but youd just refute it. I did that for months in the other thread and the NRA types ignored it or offered conflicting and irrelevant data. It's not worth my time to get into it all again. It should be common sense that these situations are more likely to end in tragedy when people have concealed weapons.

But...based on that premise.....this situation came from texting in a movie theater. People do annoying things everyday. Why aren't there more innocent people being shot each day since people have weapons to kill them if that happens.

Oh snap.....I heard that. What now, tim?Thoughts?

I think your turkey just got roasted.

Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot.

One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes.

Nearly three times more kids (15,576) were injured by firearms in 2010 than the number of U.S. soldiers (5,247) wounded in action that year in the war in Afghanistan.

 

[eoMMan]

So did this movie theater have a no gun policy?

Did the killer actually talk to management?

Can we focus on the thread title?

 

[Stinger Ray]

I could give you plenty of info, but youd just refute it. I did that for months in the other thread and the NRA types ignored it or offered conflicting and irrelevant data. It's not worth my time to get into it all again. It should be common sense that these situations are more likely to end in tragedy when people have concealed weapons.

But...based on that premise.....this situation came from texting in a movie theater. People do annoying things everyday. Why aren't there more innocent people being shot each day since people have weapons to kill them if that happens.

Oh snap.....I heard that. What now, tim?Thoughts?

I think your turkey just got roasted.

Every day in the U.S., an average of 289 people are shot.

One person is killed by a firearm every 17 minutes.

Nearly three times more kids (15,576) were injured by firearms in 2010 than the number of U.S. soldiers (5,247) wounded in action that year in the war in Afghanistan.

And my guess is the vast majority of those are from people with illegal weapons that aren't registered. Just google the shootings in Chicago with some of the strictest gun laws in the country.

 

[Raider Nation]

I was wondering what took this thread so long to become all about Tim.

 

[fantasycurse42]

How long until this gets to trial? Like are we talking this summer or some time in 2015?

 

[Dr Oadi]

How about metal detectors for the theaters and then we can expand TSA? You will remove your belt and shoes on the way into the movies.

They make us bring everything in a clear plastic bag now going into the stadiums.

Tim much like America prefers safety over freedom.

 

[fatness]

So did this movie theater have a no gun policy?

Yes

Did the killer actually talk to management?

Yes

 

[lod01]

How long until this gets to trial? Like are we talking this summer or some time in 2015?

He's definitely sitting in jail for a year minimum before this circus gets off the ground.

 

[Courtjester]

First of all, I don't own a gun. Don't really care to own one (well, maybe a shotgun for the house), but just not something I feel like I "need".

But Tim, show me anything that shows that people with CC commit more crimes than random criminals out there. Guess what, it doesn't exist. So stop trying to make this the Trayvon Martin 2.0 thread.

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

That being said, it will be interesting to see how this one plays out. On paper, it looks cut and dry, but let's see what the other eyewitnesses say. Simple things like the younger guy has a history of violence and was the instigator, Maybe he reached and pushed the older man. Maybe this young couple on their date day had tipped back a few at lunch and the victim's decision making was impaired? This is one of those cases that maybe it is what it is and if that is the case--the guy is guilty is sin and goes down for what little is left of his life. On the other hand, there could be something for a defense counsel to work with here to establish reasonable doubt in the mind of one juror.

Personally, I have to believe the other person who was chased down by the accused for texting at an earlier date is very key to his predisposed, unbalanced state of mind.

 

[Rush Limbaugh Fan]

First of all, I don't own a gun. Don't really care to own one (well, maybe a shotgun for the house), but just not something I feel like I "need".

But Tim, show me anything that shows that people with CC commit more crimes than random criminals out there. Guess what, it doesn't exist. So stop trying to make this the Trayvon Martin 2.0 thread.

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

That being said, it will be interesting to see how this one plays out. On paper, it looks cut and dry, but let's see what the other eyewitnesses say. Simple things like the younger guy has a history of violence and was the instigator, Maybe he reached and pushed the older man. Maybe this young couple on their date day had tipped back a few at lunch and the victim's decision making was impaired? This is one of those cases that maybe it is what it is and if that is the case--the guy is guilty is sin and goes down for what little is left of his life. On the other hand, there could be something for a defense counsel to work with here to establish reasonable doubt in the mind of one juror.

Personally, I have to believe the other person who was chased down by the accused for texting at an earlier date is very key to his unbalanced state of mind.

Reasonable doubt? He murdered an unarmed man!

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Maybe he reached and pushed the older man.
.

Well then SHOOT HIM! Obviously. Right?

 

[sporthenry]

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

Everyone agrees. But how do we stop this senseless violence or at least, minimize the consequences of it? It seems like people say this and think the conversation is over. That somehow discussing how to stop senseless gun violence is somehow disrespectful to the victim and his family. When in reality, many victim's families have sought to make sure this tragedy doesn't happen again.

It is a tragedy but why can't we discuss stopping it again?

 

[Courtjester]

First of all, I don't own a gun. Don't really care to own one (well, maybe a shotgun for the house), but just not something I feel like I "need".

But Tim, show me anything that shows that people with CC commit more crimes than random criminals out there. Guess what, it doesn't exist. So stop trying to make this the Trayvon Martin 2.0 thread.

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

That being said, it will be interesting to see how this one plays out. On paper, it looks cut and dry, but let's see what the other eyewitnesses say. Simple things like the younger guy has a history of violence and was the instigator, Maybe he reached and pushed the older man. Maybe this young couple on their date day had tipped back a few at lunch and the victim's decision making was impaired? This is one of those cases that maybe it is what it is and if that is the case--the guy is guilty is sin and goes down for what little is left of his life. On the other hand, there could be something for a defense counsel to work with here to establish reasonable doubt in the mind of one juror.

Personally, I have to believe the other person who was chased down by the accused for texting at an earlier date is very key to his unbalanced state of mind.

Reasonable doubt? He murdered an unarmed man!

For both you and BST, I was approaching this as to what a defense counsel "could" present as a defense.

edit: Not necessarily believing it will work....

 

[BustedKnuckles]

First of all, I don't own a gun. Don't really care to own one (well, maybe a shotgun for the house), but just not something I feel like I "need".

But Tim, show me anything that shows that people with CC commit more crimes than random criminals out there. Guess what, it doesn't exist. So stop trying to make this the Trayvon Martin 2.0 thread.

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

That being said, it will be interesting to see how this one plays out. On paper, it looks cut and dry, but let's see what the other eyewitnesses say. Simple things like the younger guy has a history of violence and was the instigator, Maybe he reached and pushed the older man. Maybe this young couple on their date day had tipped back a few at lunch and the victim's decision making was impaired? This is one of those cases that maybe it is what it is and if that is the case--the guy is guilty is sin and goes down for what little is left of his life. On the other hand, there could be something for a defense counsel to work with here to establish reasonable doubt in the mind of one juror.

Personally, I have to believe the other person who was chased down by the accused for texting at an earlier date is very key to his unbalanced state of mind.

Reasonable doubt? He murdered an unarmed man!

For both you and BST, I was approaching this as to what a defense counsel "could" present as a defense.

edit: Not necessarily believing it will work....

this is about as much an open and shut case as you can find

 

[BigSteelThrill]

First of all, I don't own a gun. Don't really care to own one (well, maybe a shotgun for the house), but just not something I feel like I "need".

But Tim, show me anything that shows that people with CC commit more crimes than random criminals out there. Guess what, it doesn't exist. So stop trying to make this the Trayvon Martin 2.0 thread.

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

That being said, it will be interesting to see how this one plays out. On paper, it looks cut and dry, but let's see what the other eyewitnesses say. Simple things like the younger guy has a history of violence and was the instigator, Maybe he reached and pushed the older man. Maybe this young couple on their date day had tipped back a few at lunch and the victim's decision making was impaired? This is one of those cases that maybe it is what it is and if that is the case--the guy is guilty is sin and goes down for what little is left of his life. On the other hand, there could be something for a defense counsel to work with here to establish reasonable doubt in the mind of one juror.

Personally, I have to believe the other person who was chased down by the accused for texting at an earlier date is very key to his unbalanced state of mind.

Reasonable doubt? He murdered an unarmed man!

For both you and BST, I was approaching this as to what a defense counsel "could" present as a defense.

edit: Not necessarily believing it will work....

Which is ALWAYS the case with the gun.

Kill the mother####er and claim self defense/fear. Zimmerman style.

 

[Fennis]

[SIZE=10.5pt]this thread was 100 times better when people were making “inappropriate” jokes. [/SIZE]

 

[wilson2112]

Just because you want the means to protect your family if it came down to that, doesn't mean that you are prepared/trained to know if "this" is one of those times or not.

I likely have more range time and training hours over the last 12 months than half of the officers in the memphis police department. I take the responsibility of carrying very seriously and while I enjoy the hobby of shooting, part of why I take classes and practice at the range is so I'm not a liability to society in the event I ever have to draw in self defense. I can't say that for all folks, though more training should be mandatory.

The group I take defensive carry classes from are the same group that train regional swat teams. This isn't just going out and shooting bottles in jethro's back yard.

Yeah sorry icon, I don't care about your practice time. I want the law changed so that you are not allowed to carry your guns around in public. In the privacy of your own home, you can have all the guns you want. And at shooting ranges. But not in public places. The 2nd Amendment doesn't protect your right to do so, and frankly it makes my family less safe. So let's change the law.

Tim, you cannot get the guns out of the hands of the people who don't follow the laws to begin with. Why do you want to go after law abiding citizens?All you are gonna do is rig it so the criminals have weapons and make it even easier for them to conduct their business.

So sick of this argument. This old cop was a law abiding citizen until he got pissed off, had a gun in his hand, and used it. That's what far too many people with loaded guns do- they use them.

If people were not allowed to have loaded weapons in public, we would all be more safe not less.

Are their facts that prove we would all be more safe?

Do you feel unsafe flying in an airplane knowing that you and everyone else is unarmed?

Remove the "right" to carry a weapon and you help to remove the threat of encountering a weapon. Seems to work for the airlines.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Just because you want the means to protect your family if it came down to that, doesn't mean that you are prepared/trained to know if "this" is one of those times or not.

I likely have more range time and training hours over the last 12 months than half of the officers in the memphis police department. I take the responsibility of carrying very seriously and while I enjoy the hobby of shooting, part of why I take classes and practice at the range is so I'm not a liability to society in the event I ever have to draw in self defense. I can't say that for all folks, though more training should be mandatory.

The group I take defensive carry classes from are the same group that train regional swat teams. This isn't just going out and shooting bottles in jethro's back yard.

Yeah sorry icon, I don't care about your practice time. I want the law changed so that you are not allowed to carry your guns around in public. In the privacy of your own home, you can have all the guns you want. And at shooting ranges. But not in public places. The 2nd Amendment doesn't protect your right to do so, and frankly it makes my family less safe. So let's change the law.

Tim, you cannot get the guns out of the hands of the people who don't follow the laws to begin with. Why do you want to go after law abiding citizens?All you are gonna do is rig it so the criminals have weapons and make it even easier for them to conduct their business.

So sick of this argument.This old cop was a law abiding citizen until he got pissed off, had a gun in his hand, and used it. That's what far too many people with loaded guns do- they use them.

If people were not allowed to have loaded weapons in public, we would all be more safe not less.

Are their facts that prove we would all be more safe?

Do you feel unsafe flying in an airplane knowing that you and everyone else is unarmed?

Remove the "right" to carry a weapon and you help to remove the threat of encountering a weapon. Seems to work for the airlines.

of course if everyone had guns on a plane 9/11 would have never happened

 

[timschochet]

I was wondering what took this thread so long to become all about Tim.

They want to make this about me because I'm easier to rip than common sense arguments about guns. So let's just make this a "Tim Thing", and pretend that real people aren't being killed.

It is not tasteless to bring up the question of whether or not concealed carry makes us less safe after this horrible crime. In fact, it is tasteless NOT to bring it up, to pretend once again that guns carried by private citizens in the public had nothing to do with this.

 

[Joe T]

First of all, I don't own a gun. Don't really care to own one (well, maybe a shotgun for the house), but just not something I feel like I "need".

But Tim, show me anything that shows that people with CC commit more crimes than random criminals out there. Guess what, it doesn't exist. So stop trying to make this the Trayvon Martin 2.0 thread.

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

That being said, it will be interesting to see how this one plays out. On paper, it looks cut and dry, but let's see what the other eyewitnesses say. Simple things like the younger guy has a history of violence and was the instigator, Maybe he reached and pushed the older man. Maybe this young couple on their date day had tipped back a few at lunch and the victim's decision making was impaired? This is one of those cases that maybe it is what it is and if that is the case--the guy is guilty is sin and goes down for what little is left of his life. On the other hand, there could be something for a defense counsel to work with here to establish reasonable doubt in the mind of one juror.

Personally, I have to believe the other person who was chased down by the accused for texting at an earlier date is very key to his unbalanced state of mind.

Reasonable doubt? He *murdered an unarmed man!

*allegedly

 

[HughHoney]

Guns should be outlawed for civilian use but duels should make a come back. Call the cops and get their guns for an ol fashioned duel.

 

[Joe T]

I was wondering what took this thread so long to become all about Tim.

They want to make this about me because I'm easier to rip than common sense arguments about guns. So let's just make this a "Tim Thing", and pretend that real people aren't being killed.

It is not tasteless to bring up the question of whether or not concealed carry makes us less safe after this horrible *crime. In fact, it is tasteless NOT to bring it up, to pretend once again that guns carried by private citizens in the public had nothing to do with this.

*alleged

 

[DSP]

Maybe psych evals every so often if you want to carry a gun? This guy obviously is ####### insane.

The truly diabolical sociopaths would pass these easily

 

[Stinger Ray]

Just because you want the means to protect your family if it came down to that, doesn't mean that you are prepared/trained to know if "this" is one of those times or not.

I likely have more range time and training hours over the last 12 months than half of the officers in the memphis police department. I take the responsibility of carrying very seriously and while I enjoy the hobby of shooting, part of why I take classes and practice at the range is so I'm not a liability to society in the event I ever have to draw in self defense. I can't say that for all folks, though more training should be mandatory.

The group I take defensive carry classes from are the same group that train regional swat teams. This isn't just going out and shooting bottles in jethro's back yard.

Yeah sorry icon, I don't care about your practice time. I want the law changed so that you are not allowed to carry your guns around in public. In the privacy of your own home, you can have all the guns you want. And at shooting ranges. But not in public places. The 2nd Amendment doesn't protect your right to do so, and frankly it makes my family less safe. So let's change the law.

Tim, you cannot get the guns out of the hands of the people who don't follow the laws to begin with. Why do you want to go after law abiding citizens?All you are gonna do is rig it so the criminals have weapons and make it even easier for them to conduct their business.

So sick of this argument. This old cop was a law abiding citizen until he got pissed off, had a gun in his hand, and used it. That's what far too many people with loaded guns do- they use them.

If people were not allowed to have loaded weapons in public, we would all be more safe not less.

Are their facts that prove we would all be more safe?

Do you feel unsafe flying in an airplane knowing that you and everyone else is unarmed?

Remove the "right" to carry a weapon and you help to remove the threat of encountering a weapon. Seems to work for the airlines.

WTF are you talking about?

 

[wilson2112]

Just because you want the means to protect your family if it came down to that, doesn't mean that you are prepared/trained to know if "this" is one of those times or not.

I likely have more range time and training hours over the last 12 months than half of the officers in the memphis police department. I take the responsibility of carrying very seriously and while I enjoy the hobby of shooting, part of why I take classes and practice at the range is so I'm not a liability to society in the event I ever have to draw in self defense. I can't say that for all folks, though more training should be mandatory.

The group I take defensive carry classes from are the same group that train regional swat teams. This isn't just going out and shooting bottles in jethro's back yard.

Yeah sorry icon, I don't care about your practice time. I want the law changed so that you are not allowed to carry your guns around in public. In the privacy of your own home, you can have all the guns you want. And at shooting ranges. But not in public places. The 2nd Amendment doesn't protect your right to do so, and frankly it makes my family less safe. So let's change the law.

Tim, you cannot get the guns out of the hands of the people who don't follow the laws to begin with. Why do you want to go after law abiding citizens?All you are gonna do is rig it so the criminals have weapons and make it even easier for them to conduct their business.

So sick of this argument. This old cop was a law abiding citizen until he got pissed off, had a gun in his hand, and used it. That's what far too many people with loaded guns do- they use them.

If people were not allowed to have loaded weapons in public, we would all be more safe not less.

Are their facts that prove we would all be more safe?

Do you feel unsafe flying in an airplane knowing that you and everyone else is unarmed?

Remove the "right" to carry a weapon and you help to remove the threat of encountering a weapon. Seems to work for the airlines.

WTF are you talking about?

Sorry. Didn't mean to muddle this up for you. Let me present this in a way you can understand:

Tim said: "If people were not allowed to have loaded weapons in public, we would all be more safe not less"

You then asked: "Are their facts that prove we would all be more safe?"

Then I gave an example of where guns aren't allowed (that would be on an airplane) and asked if you felt safe being in that environment (a gun free-environment).

Was that so hard to piece together?

 

[wilson2112]

Just because you want the means to protect your family if it came down to that, doesn't mean that you are prepared/trained to know if "this" is one of those times or not.

I likely have more range time and training hours over the last 12 months than half of the officers in the memphis police department. I take the responsibility of carrying very seriously and while I enjoy the hobby of shooting, part of why I take classes and practice at the range is so I'm not a liability to society in the event I ever have to draw in self defense. I can't say that for all folks, though more training should be mandatory.

The group I take defensive carry classes from are the same group that train regional swat teams. This isn't just going out and shooting bottles in jethro's back yard.

Yeah sorry icon, I don't care about your practice time. I want the law changed so that you are not allowed to carry your guns around in public. In the privacy of your own home, you can have all the guns you want. And at shooting ranges. But not in public places. The 2nd Amendment doesn't protect your right to do so, and frankly it makes my family less safe. So let's change the law.

Tim, you cannot get the guns out of the hands of the people who don't follow the laws to begin with. Why do you want to go after law abiding citizens?All you are gonna do is rig it so the criminals have weapons and make it even easier for them to conduct their business.

So sick of this argument.This old cop was a law abiding citizen until he got pissed off, had a gun in his hand, and used it. That's what far too many people with loaded guns do- they use them.

If people were not allowed to have loaded weapons in public, we would all be more safe not less.

Are their facts that prove we would all be more safe?

Do you feel unsafe flying in an airplane knowing that you and everyone else is unarmed?

Remove the "right" to carry a weapon and you help to remove the threat of encountering a weapon. Seems to work for the airlines.

of course if everyone had guns on a plane 9/11 would have never happened

Fair enough. Why, then, don't they allow guns on planes and require everyone to arm themselves to prevent these terrorist attacks from happening? Why restrict the second amendment? Why not let the second amendment do what it is supposed to do and that is to allow people the right to defend themselves?

 

[Johnny Rock]

Terrible, terrible tragedy for this young family and those involved directly and indirectly.

As a movie theater company executive we will continue to NOT ban weapons on the premises. We don't encourage bringing them in but we don't ban them with a sign either. I'm not convinced it will make the theater safer and I believe it could make it less safe. Same position before and after the Aurora theater shooting too.

Someone mentioned the theater manager being fired. Why? Never even crossed my mind.

So you're saying, as a movie theater executive, that fewer guns in a dark, crowded movie theater would make it less safe. Please, please explain how you arrive at this conclusion. I think as a movie theater executive you owe us that much.

I believe that:1) A lawful sign banning guns will not stop criminals with guns from bringing them inside the theater, but likely WILL stop lawful citizens from bringing in guns,

2) Law-abiding, properly permitted, conceal/carry citizens are overwhelmingly NOT a threat to movie patrons nor the public at-large, even a 300 seat auditorium filled with them sitting in the dark,

3) A sign "Banning guns on these premises" MAY embolden a criminal in thinking that he may be unopposed if something goes down, except by other criminals, and to a lesser extent perhaps off-duty officers and the like,

4) A policy where guns are neither banned nor encouraged MAY make a gun-carrying criminal who just wants to attend a movie in peace with his girl think twice about brandishing his gun should a minor altercation or argument take place since possibly multiple other citizens may also be armed and he doesn't want to get shot either, POSSIBLY making the theater safer,

5) Homicidal people, psychopaths and others intent on doing great bodily harm and inflicting mayhem will find a way to do so if it escalates that far, which, if it does, will likely give the perpetrator the element of surprise and possibly multiple minutes before police arrive, assess the situation through the chaos, determine the shooter, etc.,

6) By then it will likely be too late for the police or SWAT to make a real difference and the outcome may already be devastatingly abhorrent,

7) If #### really goes down and people might die I'll take my chances that a well-trained, conceal/carry movie-goer MAY be able to use his/her training to take immediate action, thus either mitigating the threat or POSSIBLY limiting the loss of life should they be able to intervene and delay, distract, stop, wound or kill the shooter,

8) If no legal conceal/carry gun owners are present to help the innocent, I wouldn't feel bad for the perpetrator if he was shot by a do-gooder-gang-banger illegally possessing a firearm.

 

[fantasycurse42]

I was wondering what took this thread so long to become all about Tim.

They want to make this about me because I'm easier to rip than common sense arguments about guns. So let's just make this a "Tim Thing", and pretend that real people aren't being killed.It is not tasteless to bring up the question of whether or not concealed carry makes us less safe after this horrible *crime. In fact, it is tasteless NOT to bring it up, to pretend once again that guns carried by private citizens in the public had nothing to do with this.

*alleged

You've gotta be ####ting me... If I read that right, you are talking about the murder in the movie theater as alleged? I took a gulp of NyQuil 20 minutes ago and I'm on my phone so maybe I read it wrong, but if you are calling this crime "alleged" you're on another planet.

The charges were brought forth after multiple detectives filed a report. Included was a murder weapon & multiple eye witnesses who saw everything unfold, one witness sitting five seats away was an off-duty cop. The judge looked at the evidence and then denied bail to a former police captain.

Regardless of the outcome of any trial, this "alleged" crime was actually a "real" crime. For the simplicity of this conversation why don't we refer to it as murder?

 

[timschochet]

Terrible, terrible tragedy for this young family and those involved directly and indirectly.

As a movie theater company executive we will continue to NOT ban weapons on the premises. We don't encourage bringing them in but we don't ban them with a sign either. I'm not convinced it will make the theater safer and I believe it could make it less safe. Same position before and after the Aurora theater shooting too.

Someone mentioned the theater manager being fired. Why? Never even crossed my mind.

So you're saying, as a movie theater executive, that fewer guns in a dark, crowded movie theater would make it less safe. Please, please explain how you arrive at this conclusion. I think as a movie theater executive you owe us that much.

I believe that:1) A lawful sign banning guns will not stop criminals with guns from bringing them inside the theater, but likely WILL stop lawful citizens from bringing in guns,

2) Law-abiding, properly permitted, conceal/carry citizens are overwhelmingly NOT a threat to movie patrons nor the public at-large, even a 300 seat auditorium filled with them sitting in the dark,

3) A sign "Banning guns on these premises" MAY embolden a criminal in thinking that he may be unopposed if something goes down, except by other criminals, and to a lesser extent perhaps off-duty officers and the like,

4) A policy where guns are neither banned nor encouraged MAY make a gun-carrying criminal who just wants to attend a movie in peace with his girl think twice about brandishing his gun should a minor altercation or argument take place since possibly multiple other citizens may also be armed and he doesn't want to get shot either, POSSIBLY making the theater safer,

5) Homicidal people, psychopaths and others intent on doing great bodily harm and inflicting mayhem will find a way to do so if it escalates that far, which, if it does, will likely give the perpetrator the element of surprise and possibly multiple minutes before police arrive, assess the situation through the chaos, determine the shooter, etc.,

6) By then it will likely be too late for the police or SWAT to make a real difference and the outcome may already be devastatingly abhorrent,

7) If #### really goes down and people might die I'll take my chances that a well-trained, conceal/carry movie-goer MAY be able to use his/her training to take immediate action, thus either mitigating the threat or POSSIBLY limiting the loss of life should they be able to intervene and delay, distract, stop, wound or kill the shooter,

8) If no legal conceal/carry gun owners are present to help the innocent, I wouldn't feel bad for the perpetrator if he was shot by a do-gooder-gang-banger illegally possessing a firearm.

1. The less people in movie theaters with guns, the better.

2. This ex-cop was a law abiding citizen before this crime. The whole point is that law-abiding citizens can become threats to the public when they lose their temper. What happened here is a clear example of that.

3. Sorry but that's ridiculous. Criminals won't be affected by those signs one way or another.

4. Again, it doesn't make the theater more safe.

5. What does this have to do with anything?

6. See point #5.

7. I don't want #### to go down. #### is much more likely to go down when people are allowed to carry guns in public places like movie theaters.

8. Irrelevant.

 

[Joe T]

I was wondering what took this thread so long to become all about Tim.

They want to make this about me because I'm easier to rip than common sense arguments about guns. So let's just make this a "Tim Thing", and pretend that real people aren't being killed.It is not tasteless to bring up the question of whether or not concealed carry makes us less safe after this horrible *crime. In fact, it is tasteless NOT to bring it up, to pretend once again that guns carried by private citizens in the public had nothing to do with this.

*alleged

You've gotta be ####ting me... If I read that right, you are talking about the murder in the movie theater as alleged? I took a gulp of NyQuil 20 minutes ago and I'm on my phone so maybe I read it wrong, but if you are calling this crime "alleged" you're on another planet.The charges were brought forth after multiple detectives filed a report. Included was a murder weapon & multiple eye witnesses who saw everything unfold, one witness sitting five seats away was an off-duty cop. The judge looked at the evidence and then denied bail to a former police captain.

Regardless of the outcome of any trial, this "alleged" crime was actually a "real" crime. For the simplicity of this conversation why don't we refer to it as murder?

Innocent until proven guilty down?

 

[Lutherman2112]

i don't really care if people carry guns, but doesn't it kind of suck to live in such fear everyday that you feel the need to carry a gun?

Fear =/= being prepared.

I live in one of the most violent cities in the nation. The areas I frequent are for the most part safe but you never know. Last week a buddy of mine was pulling into his neighborhood and one guy jumped out in front of his car and two other guys tried to bash in the windows of his car and open the door. He sped off barely avoiding running into the guy up front. He found a bullet hole in the rear door about 15" behind where he was sitting. He texted me the next day asking what it took to get a carry permit.

I don't live in that neighborhood... The odds are very much against something ever happening to me. The thought of something happening by no means consume me. Having a carry piece adds to my peace of mind that IF something happens, I'll at least stand a fighting chance (likely more than that since I'd likely be confronted by people with a fraction of the experience or marksmanship I have). 99.9% chance I'll never need it. I'm good with that.

If you don't want to carry, by all means that's cool. I do and, thankfully, that's my right.

Fear led you to take extra precautions. So while fear is not equal to being prepared, preparedness is driven by fear.

I prefer to bowhunt, and track shot quarry. After the first time I stumbled across a meth cook, I got my CC as soon as I possibly could.

 

[[icon]]

Just because you want the means to protect your family if it came down to that, doesn't mean that you are prepared/trained to know if "this" is one of those times or not.

I likely have more range time and training hours over the last 12 months than half of the officers in the memphis police department. I take the responsibility of carrying very seriously and while I enjoy the hobby of shooting, part of why I take classes and practice at the range is so I'm not a liability to society in the event I ever have to draw in self defense. I can't say that for all folks, though more training should be mandatory.

The group I take defensive carry classes from are the same group that train regional swat teams. This isn't just going out and shooting bottles in jethro's back yard.

Yeah sorry icon, I don't care about your practice time. I want the law changed so that you are not allowed to carry your guns around in public. In the privacy of your own home, you can have all the guns you want. And at shooting ranges. But not in public places. The 2nd Amendment doesn't protect your right to do so, and frankly it makes my family less safe. So let's change the law.

Tim, you cannot get the guns out of the hands of the people who don't follow the laws to begin with. Why do you want to go after law abiding citizens?All you are gonna do is rig it so the criminals have weapons and make it even easier for them to conduct their business.

So sick of this argument. This old cop was a law abiding citizen until he got pissed off, had a gun in his hand, and used it. That's what far too many people with loaded guns do- they use them.

If people were not allowed to have loaded weapons in public, we would all be more safe not less.

Are their facts that prove we would all be more safe?

Do you feel unsafe flying in an airplane knowing that you and everyone else is unarmed? Remove the "right" to carry a weapon and you help to remove the threat of encountering a weapon. Seems to work for the airlines.

Arguably the dumbest anti-gun post in any thread on FBG, ever. Considering Tim frequents these things that's impressive

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I was wondering what took this thread so long to become all about Tim.

They want to make this about me because I'm easier to rip than common sense arguments about guns. So let's just make this a "Tim Thing", and pretend that real people aren't being killed.It is not tasteless to bring up the question of whether or not concealed carry makes us less safe after this horrible *crime. In fact, it is tasteless NOT to bring it up, to pretend once again that guns carried by private citizens in the public had nothing to do with this.

*alleged

You've gotta be ####ting me... If I read that right, you are talking about the murder in the movie theater as alleged? I took a gulp of NyQuil 20 minutes ago and I'm on my phone so maybe I read it wrong, but if you are calling this crime "alleged" you're on another planet.The charges were brought forth after multiple detectives filed a report. Included was a murder weapon & multiple eye witnesses who saw everything unfold, one witness sitting five seats away was an off-duty cop. The judge looked at the evidence and then denied bail to a former police captain.

Regardless of the outcome of any trial, this "alleged" crime was actually a "real" crime. For the simplicity of this conversation why don't we refer to it as murder?

Innocent until proven guilty down?

http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/the-dar-224.jpg?w=500

 

[BustedKnuckles]

College kids are still KIDS...but with really well developed bodies

 

[cstu]

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

Also the senseless act of texting during a movie and refusing to turn it off when asked.

 

[Limp Ditka]

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

Also the senseless act of texting during a movie and refusing to turn it off when asked.

No more offensive than the senseless act of suggesting that a moving was playing at the time.

 

[fatness]

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

Also the senseless act of texting during a movie and refusing to turn it off when asked.

People usually get killed for that. It's the only way to teach them a lesson.

 

[LinusMarr]

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

Also the senseless act of texting during a movie and refusing to turn it off when asked.

People usually get killed for that. It's the only way to teach them a lesson.

He obviously deserved it according to some lol

 

[fantasycurse42]

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

Also the senseless act of texting during a movie and refusing to turn it off when asked.

People usually get killed for that. It's the only way to teach them a lesson.

I tapped a stranger on the shoulder and asked him for the time

last week.... So he shot me!

 

[Politician Spock]

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

Also the senseless act of texting during a movie and refusing to turn it off when asked.

People usually get killed for that. It's the only way to teach them a lesson.

I tapped a stranger on the shoulder and asked him for the time

last week.... So he shot me!

You've got it backwards. You are supposed to shoot him after he refuses to give you the time.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

The bottom line (and as a father of two daughters) a little girl is without her dad tonight because of a senseless act of violence and that's the tragedy.

Also the senseless act of texting during a movie and refusing to turn it off when asked.

People usually get killed for that. It's the only way to teach them a lesson.

I tapped a stranger on the shoulder and asked him for the time

last week.... So he shot me!

You've got it backwards. You are supposed to shoot him after he refuses to give you the time.

so what will be the official term for this...we have road rage ...would it just be social rage ?

 

[The Commish]

Just because you want the means to protect your family if it came down to that, doesn't mean that you are prepared/trained to know if "this" is one of those times or not.

I likely have more range time and training hours over the last 12 months than half of the officers in the memphis police department. I take the responsibility of carrying very seriously and while I enjoy the hobby of shooting, part of why I take classes and practice at the range is so I'm not a liability to society in the event I ever have to draw in self defense. I can't say that for all folks, though more training should be mandatory.

The group I take defensive carry classes from are the same group that train regional swat teams. This isn't just going out and shooting bottles in jethro's back yard.

No offense icon, but this doesn't really address the point you quoted. Reality is there is nothing out there that can train one to shoot a person. It's a completely different ball game when an actual human being is standing in front of you vs a target you practice on. One can be trained on all the procedures in the world, but it comes down to being able to pull the trigger on a human being. For this reason, I will never carry a gun...simply because I don't know if I could ever pull the trigger on another human being.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

I could give you plenty of info, but youd just refute it. I did that for months in the other thread and the NRA types ignored it or offered conflicting and irrelevant data. It's not worth my time to get into it all again. It should be common sense that these situations are more likely to end in tragedy when people have concealed weapons.

It's not our fault that you don't like math, science, logic, probabilities and everything else that gets in the way of your emotions.Let's start with "these situations", define that, give us a probability and then weigh "these [bad] situations" against "these [good] situations" where concealed carry saves lives / prevents crime.

 

[The Commish]

Well well....we are WELL on our way to over 50 pages now that the cavalry has arrived

 

[glock]

Maybe he reached and pushed the older man.
.

Well then SHOOT HIM! Obviously. Right?

I'd like to know when pushing/punching became grounds for FFL defenses? Talk about the wussification of America.

I remember when a good ### kicking settled things. Black eyes, bloodied noses, cauliflowered ears, no(minimal) broken bones. No life threatening bullet wounds or death to contend with.

I'm thinking it began with the whole "can't disrespect me" movement. Pride over common sense.

 

[SHIZNITTTT]

Saw some pictures of the little girl and her daddy on facebook. WoW it really hits home when you see them.

 

[glock]

Just because you want the means to protect your family if it came down to that, doesn't mean that you are prepared/trained to know if "this" is one of those times or not.

I likely have more range time and training hours over the last 12 months than half of the officers in the memphis police department. I take the responsibility of carrying very seriously and while I enjoy the hobby of shooting, part of why I take classes and practice at the range is so I'm not a liability to society in the event I ever have to draw in self defense. I can't say that for all folks, though more training should be mandatory.

The group I take defensive carry classes from are the same group that train regional swat teams. This isn't just going out and shooting bottles in jethro's back yard.

No offense icon, but this doesn't really address the point you quoted. Reality is there is nothing out there that can train one to shoot a person. It's a completely different ball game when an actual human being is standing in front of you vs a target you practice on. One can be trained on all the procedures in the world, but it comes down to being able to pull the trigger on a human being. For this reason, I will never carry a gun...simply because I don't know if I could ever pull the trigger on another human being.

...or trust yourself to NOT pull it unless absolutely necessary??

 

[5 digit know nothing]

This tragedy has more to do with a pissed off (ex-)cop than the fact that he had a concealed carry permit.

Cops are 3x more likely to commit murder than non-cop concealed carry holders probably attributed to that "above the law" mentality.

This is a slap in the face for anyone that says only cops should own firearms.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Just because you want the means to protect your family if it came down to that, doesn't mean that you are prepared/trained to know if "this" is one of those times or not.

I likely have more range time and training hours over the last 12 months than half of the officers in the memphis police department. I take the responsibility of carrying very seriously and while I enjoy the hobby of shooting, part of why I take classes and practice at the range is so I'm not a liability to society in the event I ever have to draw in self defense. I can't say that for all folks, though more training should be mandatory.

The group I take defensive carry classes from are the same group that train regional swat teams. This isn't just going out and shooting bottles in jethro's back yard.

No offense icon, but this doesn't really address the point you quoted. Reality is there is nothing out there that can train one to shoot a person. It's a completely different ball game when an actual human being is standing in front of you vs a target you practice on. One can be trained on all the procedures in the world, but it comes down to being able to pull the trigger on a human being. For this reason, I will never carry a gun...simply because I don't know if I could ever pull the trigger on another human being.

...or trust yourself to NOT pull it unless absolutely necessary??

There has to be something wrong with someone if they can look another person in the face and just blow them away over a disagreement in a movie theater...i mean im sure if he just pulled the gun out and said back off it would have been enough to squash things...just strange to me