Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
He almost did a pretty good job of faking interest in the game today.
Eli has never been great. He's been good enough a few times, but never great.It is truly unexplainable as to what happened to Eli this year. Guys lose it over night, but not great guys and Eli has been great at times. This is just sad.
The New York Giants have been the NFL's most active team so far this offseason, adding 14 free agents from outside their organization and re-signing 10 of their own. But free agency is no cure-all, as we've all heard countless times. So each day this week, we'll take a look at one question that still remains following the Giants' spring splurge. Today we ask:
What can the Giants expect from Eli Manning?
I swear this post was planned before Thursday's news that Manning was having surgery on his sprained left ankle. But obviously, the fact of offseason surgery can only add to the legitimacy of the questions surrounding the Giants' franchise quarterback following his worst season. Manning threw a career-high 27 interceptions in 2013 to go with 18 touchdown passes, his lowest total since becoming the Giants' full-time starter. His passing yardage total of 3,818 was his lowest since 2008. His 57.5 completion percentage was his lowest since 2007, and for the third year in a row was lower than it was the year before.
There are those who wonder whether Manning is a player in decline at age 33. This is a question that has not gone unasked within the ranks of the Giants' front office. It is part of the reason the Giants decided not to try this offseason to extend Manning's contract, which runs through 2015, even though doing so would have offered them significant salary cap relief. They would like to see him pull out of his downward trend before they commit to his late 30s. Their hope is that he has a big year and that extending him next offseason makes sense.
But there's no way to know, and the Giants didn't exactly load up around Manning this offseason. They brought in a couple of new offensive linemen who may or may not be upgrades. They added a running back who's probably better than what they had in the second half of 2013. They did not upgrade at wide receiver or tight end. Manning is going to have to make his recovery more or less on his own. He's going to have to find a way to improve the aspects of his performance that were his fault in 2013. The Giants hope that, in doing so, he can elevate the personnel around him on the offensive side of the ball.
They're also hoping, as coach Tom Coughlin has said more than once, that Manning will be "energized" by the arrival of new offensive coordinator Ben McAdoo. After 10 years in basically the same system, Manning will be learning new things this summer and putting them into practice in the fall. We do not yet know enough about the offense McAdoo is installing to guess whether Manning's skills are suited to it, but it's safe to assume the Giants asked (and answered) that question before hiring McAdoo. The new offense, if it bears any resemblance to the one in which McAdoo worked in Green Bay, is likely to rely on quick decision-making (a Manning strength) and short-range accuracy. The old reliance on downfield timing and the ability of his receivers to read coverages exactly as he does from play to play could dwindle, and with it the interception total.
Those are the theories, at least. We'll all find out together whether they hold up. The last time Manning had a 25-interception season was 2010, and it bothered him greatly. I remember speaking to him about it in training camp in 2011 and him telling me, "Some you can't control and some are the result of bad decisions. We just have to eliminate the bad-decision ones." Once he gets on the field, I imagine that will be his focus once again this year, with the hope that it ends up for him and the Giants the way that 2011 season did. From here, that seems like a stretch. I think the Giants would just like to see Manning look like he's in command of things again. Because last year, there were very few moments when that appeared to be the case.
Eli Manning’s ankle surgery will likely keep him off the field for much, if not all, of the spring workouts. So the Giants are beginning their search for someone to temporarily take his place.
The first stop on their search may be with Josh Freeman and Matt Flynn, two well-travelled veteran quarterbacks who are currently the cream of what is a very thin free agent quarterback crop. Freeman, the former Bucs starting quarterback who was traded to the Vikings last year, may work out for the Giants early next week, a source confirmed, though nothing official has been set up yet.
And the Daily News has learned the Giants have also reached out to Flynn -- who spent the end of last season in Green Bay where he worked with former Packers quarterbacks coach and new Giants offensive coordinator Ben McAdoo -- and may schedule a workout with him as well.
Both players have starting experience, but the Giants don't view them in that role. They seem convinced that the arthroscopic surgery Manning had on his left ankle on Thursday was a minor procedure, and that he’ll be able to resume running in late May and will be fully ready for the start of training camp in late July.
But organized team activity sessions begin on May 28, not long after the 33-year-old Manning is scheduled to resume running, and he won’t likely be fully ready for drills then. According to several sources, the expectation is Manning will either not be ready for, or held back from most of the OTAs this spring and possibly even the full-team mini-camp in mid-June. So there will be a lot of on-field work that he’ll miss.
That’s why the team is expected to look at several veterans, such as the 26-year-old Freeman and the 28-year-old Flynn. The Giants do have veteran Curtis Painter and second-year pro Ryan Nassib on the roster, but they’ll need at least one more quarterback to run their spring drills.
Freeman, who has made 60 starts in his somewhat turbulent career, would clearly be able to do that and he could provide some interesting competition for Painter and Nassib over the summer in the battle for the backup quarterback job. He’s had a very up-and-down career that hit it’s early peak in 2012 when he threw for 4,065 yards and 27 touchdowns. But early last year he lost his starting job in Tampa to Mike Glennon, then clashed with Bucs coach Greg Schiano and the Bucs organization and was eventually released in early October.
Three days later he signed with the Vikings where he made his only start in Week 7 against the Giants. He completed just 20 of 53 passes for 190 yards an interception in a 23-7 loss.
Flynn, meanwhile, has played for four teams in his six-year career, including twice with the Green Bay Packers. He was once a highly regarded backup to Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers and even signed a three-year, $26 million contract with the Seattle Seahawks in 2012. But he quickly lost his starting job there to Russell Wilson. Last season he spent time with the Raiders and Bills before making four starts with the Packers when Rodgers was hurt.
Other than Flynn and Freeman there are very few experienced quarterbacks left on the free-agent market at the moment. Rex Grossman, Kevin Kolb and Brady Quinn would seem to be the best of the bunch. According to an NFL source, the Giants have not expressed any interest in Grossman yet. It's not known if they have any interest in taking a look at Kolb or Quinn.
Eli facing what Rivers faced in '13Giants QB Eli Manning is taking on the same heavy scrutiny Phil Rivers faced a year ago. These two are forever tied together because of the famous draft day trade when Manning was the Chargers' first overall pick in 2004 and traded to the Giants moments later for Rivers.
In 2012, Rivers had a rough season, fueling speculation about his career winding down and he no longer had the legs to throw the fastball. Not true. Rivers went from a 7-9 season and being sacked 49 times in 2012 to making the playoffs and only taking 30 sacks while throwing for 4,478 yards and 32 TDs last season.
Can Manning rebound as Rivers did last year? Granted Manning is having ankle surgery but he never misses games and when he has thrown picks before he has bounced back. In 2007, he threw 20 INTs and the next two seasons he threw 10 and 14. In 2010 he threw 25 interceptions and followed those two seasons up with 16 and 15. He has a new coordinator this season, something that recharged Rivers' batteries last year.
One Giants front-office person said: "The change will do Eli some real good with fresh ideas and the feeling he has to learn some new things."
The Giants also need better offensive-line play and receivers who hold onto the ball. Last season, Rivers had between 11 and 14 dropped passes by most accounts. Manning had close to 30 drops.
My guess is Manning cuts INTs almost in half from last year's 27 and the sacks drop slightly. In 2012 Manning was only sacked 19 times and I suspect he will be closer to that number than the 39 he took in 2013.
Outgoing offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride finds it hard to believe that the New York Giants' brass has wondered if Eli Manning has reached the decline phase of his career.
It would be easy for Gilbride to play along, pinning the blame for his disappointing offense on subpar quarterback play.
Instead, Gilbride shot down the notion as "ludicrous" while appearing on Monday's edition of NBCSN's "Pro Football Talk."
"There's been no deterioration of his arm strength, there's been no lack of preparation and effort," Gilbride said. "I think he's going to be fine as soon as they solidify the offensive line ... and as soon as they get somebody that's going to be productive for them as an outside receiver.
"Victor Cruz is terrific, but they need somebody that when they go match up, bump and run (and) go win for them."
As part of their offseason due diligence, the Giants owe it to themselves to ask if Manning is in decline -- especially with a contract due to expire after the 2015 season.
It's a good bet that the front office has reached the same conclusion as Gilbride, though.
Discussing the issue on Monday's edition of the "Around The League Podcast," we drew a comparison between the current version of Manning and Brett Favre's 2005 to '06 nadir on a rebuilding Packers team with a crumbling offensive line and a disturbing lack of weapons.
The difference is that Favre is one of the top 10 quarterbacks in NFL history, while Eli has been one of the most overrated. If the latter bounces back, it will be to slightly above average -- not great.
The latest edition of the "Around The League Podcast" covers the Aldon Smith arrest and analyzes the offseason movers and shakers in the NFC East and NFC South.
Thanks for posting Faust. It's really interesting I think.Kevin Gilbride: 'Ludicrous' to say Eli Manning in decline
By Chris Wesseling
Around the League Writer
Outgoing offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride finds it hard to believe that the New York Giants' brass has wondered if Eli Manning has reached the decline phase of his career.
It would be easy for Gilbride to play along, pinning the blame for his disappointing offense on subpar quarterback play.
Instead, Gilbride shot down the notion as "ludicrous" while appearing on Monday's edition of NBCSN's "Pro Football Talk."
"There's been no deterioration of his arm strength, there's been no lack of preparation and effort," Gilbride said. "I think he's going to be fine as soon as they solidify the offensive line ... and as soon as they get somebody that's going to be productive for them as an outside receiver.
"Victor Cruz is terrific, but they need somebody that when they go match up, bump and run (and) go win for them."
As part of their offseason due diligence, the Giants owe it to themselves to ask if Manning is in decline -- especially with a contract due to expire after the 2015 season.
It's a good bet that the front office has reached the same conclusion as Gilbride, though.
Discussing the issue on Monday's edition of the "Around The League Podcast," we drew a comparison between the current version of Manning and Brett Favre's 2005 to '06 nadir on a rebuilding Packers team with a crumbling offensive line and a disturbing lack of weapons.
The difference is that Favre is one of the top 10 quarterbacks in NFL history, while Eli has been one of the most overrated. If the latter bounces back, it will be to slightly above average -- not great.
The latest edition of the "Around The League Podcast" covers the Aldon Smith arrest and analyzes the offseason movers and shakers in the NFC East and NFC South.
When the Giants take the field this season with their new offense under first-time coordinator Ben McAdoo, it will be with a fresh new look. After two days studying the new playbook, quarterback Eli Manning expects it to resemble the Packers' offense, with plenty of West Coast concepts.
McAdoo comes to the Giants from Green Bay, where he served as the tight ends and quarterbacks coach. But his apprenticeship under Packers coach Mike McCarthy -- who runs a version of the West Coast offense -- dates back to 2004. He's bringing what he knows best to the "broken" (owner John Mara's words, not mine) unit that ranked 28th in the NFL last season.
"I think it will be similar to what they did in Green Bay," Manning said Tuesday while sporting a walking boot fresh off ankle surgery. "That's where Ben came from, so I think it will be pretty similar to that offense.
"I've never been in a West Coast offense, so I don't know if it's exactly a West Coast or a form of it, or anything at all like it. I think it has some tendencies to it, the protections and stuff, but every offense has it's own little dial and uniqueness that makes it work."
The Giants have been preparing for this for months. How else do you explain Victor Cruz's admission that he "got a little taste of it" earlier this month while working out with Manning at Duke University?
Cruz and Mario Manningham focused on routes that are considered West Coast favorites during those workouts. They were prepping for the drastic change from Kevin Gilbride's play-action, vertical-route offense to the quick-hit system that has allowed Aaron Rodgers to blossom into one of the game's best quarterbacks. Manning is hoping it helps him bounce back after a 27-interpcetion season.
"It is a little bit different than our past offense with the timing of the routes and the ball coming out quickly," Manning said. "I'm hoping that I have success in this and become a better player."
It's not going to be easy. Manning admitted his mind was swimming at the moment, only two days into the new playbook. The Giants didn't even get to the passing plays yet. They were still digesting some of the run-game concepts and formations.
To a man, the offensive players seemed to concede learning the new language that comes with the new system will be the most daunting task. But it's nothing that can't be tackled with some time and practice.
There seems to be little resistance to the change at the moment. They're all open to new approach, especially if it means more 21st-century style.
“It’s a high-powered offense, high octane. We got a little taste of it so far and I’m excited about it,” Cruz said. “If anyone watches Green Bay, they know they score a lot of points and get up and down the field pretty quickly. And they put up a lot of big plays. So we’re excited about that.”
Once the Giants receivers learn the new verbiage, the offense in general should be easier to execute. Gone are the complicated route-reads the wide receivers were tasked with under Gilbride. In are the defined routes of McAdoo and his West Coast-style offense.
“As far as my route-running was concerned in the slot position, a lot of my routes were determined by what the secondary was doing, what type of coverage they were in. That would dictate my route,” Cruz said.
“As far as this offense is concerned, it’s a lot more of your route is your route, and you can dictate that off your coverage and know what you have and Eli can find you within those different holes. Now it’s a lot less dependent on what my body language is.”
That should help the Giants cut down on the mistakes. It should help Manning cut down on the interceptions.
And make no mistake, this is no longer Tom Coughlin/Kevin Gilbride’s old-school offense.
“This is Coach McAdoo’s offense,” Manning said.
And it comes with a significant West Coast flair.
Giants quarterback Eli Manning threw 27 interceptions last season, the most in his career and the most any NFL player had thrown in any season in the last eight years. But Manning thinks things will change this year.
At the first day of the Giants’ offseason workouts, Manning said this season will provide himself and his teammates with an opportunity to show that last year’s 7-9 record doesn’t define who they are.
“This is an opportunity to reinvent yourself and to come back and change what occurred last year, some of the difficulties, and bounce back and have a clean slate, prove yourself again and play at a high level,” Manning said.
Manning is recovering from ankle surgery and not able to work out with his teammates, so he’ll get a late start on reinventing himself. The Giants need him to get healthy, and to play a whole lot better than he did last year.
The problem with this analogy is that Eli has never been as good a QB as Rivers. So it seems unlikely that any Eli bounce back will be as good as Rivers' was.Browns' moves -- hiring Farmer, handling Mack -- good for change
Pat Kirwan
Excerpt:
Eli facing what Rivers faced in '13Giants QB Eli Manning is taking on the same heavy scrutiny Phil Rivers faced a year ago. These two are forever tied together because of the famous draft day trade when Manning was the Chargers' first overall pick in 2004 and traded to the Giants moments later for Rivers.
In 2012, Rivers had a rough season, fueling speculation about his career winding down and he no longer had the legs to throw the fastball. Not true. Rivers went from a 7-9 season and being sacked 49 times in 2012 to making the playoffs and only taking 30 sacks while throwing for 4,478 yards and 32 TDs last season.
Can Manning rebound as Rivers did last year? Granted Manning is having ankle surgery but he never misses games and when he has thrown picks before he has bounced back. In 2007, he threw 20 INTs and the next two seasons he threw 10 and 14. In 2010 he threw 25 interceptions and followed those two seasons up with 16 and 15. He has a new coordinator this season, something that recharged Rivers' batteries last year.
One Giants front-office person said: "The change will do Eli some real good with fresh ideas and the feeling he has to learn some new things."
The Giants also need better offensive-line play and receivers who hold onto the ball. Last season, Rivers had between 11 and 14 dropped passes by most accounts. Manning had close to 30 drops.
My guess is Manning cuts INTs almost in half from last year's 27 and the sacks drop slightly. In 2012 Manning was only sacked 19 times and I suspect he will be closer to that number than the 39 he took in 2013.
Despite throwing a career-high 27 interceptions last season and ranking as one of the NFL's worst quarterbacks, Eli Manning has the full support of Giants co-owner John Mara, who still thinks the 33-year-old, two-time Super Bowl winner can play at a high level.
“I don't think he all of a sudden forgot how to play quarterback,” Mara said, via the New York Daily News' Ralph Vacchiano. “We expect to see the championship-level Eli play for us this year. He hopefully will have more support than he had last year, and I think you'll see him playing back to his form.”
Of course, critics would argue that Manning has been the beneficiary of some really good defenses and a lot of luck during those two runs to titles. But as we wrote last month, Manning wasn't the only reason the 2013 Giants limped to an 0-6 start (before finishing 7-9) and featured a 31st-ranked offense that was just inept on the ground as it was through the air. The offensive line was a mess, the running game was nonexistent, and the pass catchers struggled to make plays.
Still, an ESPN report suggested that some in the Giants front office wondered if Manning was a player in decline. Mara, apparently, wasn't one of those voices.
“I think you almost feel like this is an opportunity to re-invent yourself,” Mara said. “And to come back and to change what occurred last year and some of the difficulties, and bounce back and kind of have a clean slate to kind of prove yourself again, and get back to playing at a high level. ...
“We still believe he's got a lot of years left in him,” the owner continued. “And we're not talking like Eli Manning only has one or two more years left. We think he's got quite a few more left.”
So get comfortable, Giants fans, because it sounds like Manning's not going anywhere. Although we'll get a sense for just how committed Mara is when (if?) the team extends Manning's contract, which is set to expire after the 2015 season.
I'd say "completely done" is an overstatement since, to be fair, a 6.5 ANY/A season is a relatively high bar to clear - it generally means a top-10-type season even in this pass-happy era, and of course was even more rarefied air back in the '80s and '90s.That looks pretty grim to me. A 75% chance he is completely done is bad. But it's made worse by the fact he is Eli Manning. His name and past success might lead them to stick with him longer than they would stick with say a QB who put up those 2013 stats without the past success.
Eli Manning - QB - Giants
Eli Manning (ankle) said he's 100 percent and could play in a game if he needed to.
"Yeah, 100%, yeah," Manning said. "The ankle, I dont think about it, dont notice it. I go about practice and do everything and theyre not even worried about it. So, it hasnt been an issue. No question I could play tomorrow." Manning participated fully in OTAs and should do the same at mandatory minicamp. As for the new offense, Manning admits "there's still some learning curve."
Source: New York Daily News
Jun 10 - 9:33 AM
Not sure I can really agree with well any of this...He's not accurate. His throws are dead ducks. His WRs make him look better than he is...which isn't very good. They are always having to scoop balls off the ground or off a defenders finger tips. Way to turnover prone. He throws as many INTs as he does TDs. So for people in leagues that penalize for INTs he's almost unstartable. He's comparable to Rex Grossman as far as fantasay scoring (due to the negative points)...yeah...ugh.
But I hope he turns it around for the sake of my team in my 32 team league. Plus I've scooped up Adrien Robinson on the cheap in most of my leagues. Why cheap? Because Eli is his QB.
Lol, stretching it there aren't you? elite terrible not quite the same thing, I get the joke but literal name in the word vs word jumble not the same thingYou can't spell elite without eli!
You also can't spell terrible without eli.
How about vile?Lol, stretching it there aren't you? elite terrible not quite the same thing, I get the joke but literal name in the word vs word jumble not the same thingYou can't spell elite without eli!
You also can't spell terrible without eli.
Only QB with 2 SB wins not in the HoF is Plunkett. Eli might be next. I always love when people cherry pick stats and leave out the important ones to make a whole story out of half a book. But would you agree that Big Ben is a lock for HoF? Lets use your same stat lines on him:In 10 seasons in the NFL, his base numbers have been pretty mediocre (for someone that has been pimped as a Top 5 QB by some people). Over his career, he's ranked in the Top 5 in key categories as follows:
Total Completions - Once
Completion % - Never
Passing Yards - 3 times
Passing TD - 3 times
YPA - Once
Passer Rating - Never
Game Winning Drives - 3 times
Fumbles - Twice
INT - Five times
Are people still clamoring that he is a mortal lock HOFer?
I have never been a fan of Eli or Ben getting a free pass to the Hall just because they won two rings. In MY HOF, I wouldn't include them. But I would have a lot fewer players in MY HOF than the one in Canton.Only QB with 2 SB wins not in the HoF is Plunkett. Eli might be next. I always love when people cherry pick stats and leave out the important ones to make a whole story out of half a book. But would you agree that Big Ben is a lock for HoF? Lets use your same stat lines on him:In 10 seasons in the NFL, his base numbers have been pretty mediocre (for someone that has been pimped as a Top 5 QB by some people). Over his career, he's ranked in the Top 5 in key categories as follows:
Total Completions - Once
Completion % - Never
Passing Yards - 3 times
Passing TD - 3 times
YPA - Once
Passer Rating - Never
Game Winning Drives - 3 times
Fumbles - Twice
INT - Five times
Are people still clamoring that he is a mortal lock HOFer?
Total Completions - Never
Completion % - 1
Passing Yards - Never
Passing TD - 1
YPA - 5
Passer Rating - 5
Game Winning Drives - 2
INT - 2
Something this doesn't show though... the reason that these stats mean nothing to me. You're ignoring pass attempts. Eli has been Top 5 twice in his career in attempts, Ben has only been Top 10 once and it was last year. Most years he was in the bottom half of the league for pass attempts which makes it a lot LOT easier to be top 5 in things like Completion percentage and YPA and Passer rating. Ben is considered by most a consensus first ballot HoFer but he's really never had any 'Elite" seasons... he's only eclipsed 520 attempts once in his career. And he averages 434.6 a season on his career. Eli eclipsed 520 7/10 seasons and averages 500.8 attempts per season. I'm not trying to argue he is a top 5 QB in this league, point is when the game is on the line he knows how to win. Just like Ben does, it's reasons like that which make him a lock for the HoF in my opinion. Stats are wonderful, but go ask Marino if he'd give back 20,000 of his career passing yards just to have one ring, I bet he'd do it in a heartbeat.
Unfortunately, I doubt many NFL players care if they're in the "Anarchy99 Hall of Fame"I have never been a fan of Eli or Ben getting a free pass to the Hall just because they won two rings. In MY HOF, I wouldn't include them. But I would have a lot fewer players in MY HOF than the one in Canton.Only QB with 2 SB wins not in the HoF is Plunkett. Eli might be next. I always love when people cherry pick stats and leave out the important ones to make a whole story out of half a book. But would you agree that Big Ben is a lock for HoF? Lets use your same stat lines on him:In 10 seasons in the NFL, his base numbers have been pretty mediocre (for someone that has been pimped as a Top 5 QB by some people). Over his career, he's ranked in the Top 5 in key categories as follows:
Total Completions - Once
Completion % - Never
Passing Yards - 3 times
Passing TD - 3 times
YPA - Once
Passer Rating - Never
Game Winning Drives - 3 times
Fumbles - Twice
INT - Five times
Are people still clamoring that he is a mortal lock HOFer?
Total Completions - Never
Completion % - 1
Passing Yards - Never
Passing TD - 1
YPA - 5
Passer Rating - 5
Game Winning Drives - 2
INT - 2
Something this doesn't show though... the reason that these stats mean nothing to me. You're ignoring pass attempts. Eli has been Top 5 twice in his career in attempts, Ben has only been Top 10 once and it was last year. Most years he was in the bottom half of the league for pass attempts which makes it a lot LOT easier to be top 5 in things like Completion percentage and YPA and Passer rating. Ben is considered by most a consensus first ballot HoFer but he's really never had any 'Elite" seasons... he's only eclipsed 520 attempts once in his career. And he averages 434.6 a season on his career. Eli eclipsed 520 7/10 seasons and averages 500.8 attempts per season. I'm not trying to argue he is a top 5 QB in this league, point is when the game is on the line he knows how to win. Just like Ben does, it's reasons like that which make him a lock for the HoF in my opinion. Stats are wonderful, but go ask Marino if he'd give back 20,000 of his career passing yards just to have one ring, I bet he'd do it in a heartbeat.
How about vile?Lol, stretching it there aren't you? elite terrible not quite the same thing, I get the joke but literal name in the word vs word jumble not the same thingYou can't spell elite without eli!
You also can't spell terrible without eli.
Even if we ignore the volume passing stats, Big Ben hasn't racked up a ton of consideration in MVP balloting or Pro Bowl voting. Granted, Peyton and Brady had a lot to do with that, but for someone who is supposed to be an all time great QB and well respected by his peers, one would have thought that he would have garnered a lot more votes for things. I know, that is mostly fluff, but still a consideration. The same holds true for Eli too, I suppose.Unfortunately, I doubt many NFL players care if they're in the "Anarchy99 Hall of Fame"I have never been a fan of Eli or Ben getting a free pass to the Hall just because they won two rings. In MY HOF, I wouldn't include them. But I would have a lot fewer players in MY HOF than the one in Canton.Only QB with 2 SB wins not in the HoF is Plunkett. Eli might be next. I always love when people cherry pick stats and leave out the important ones to make a whole story out of half a book. But would you agree that Big Ben is a lock for HoF? Lets use your same stat lines on him:In 10 seasons in the NFL, his base numbers have been pretty mediocre (for someone that has been pimped as a Top 5 QB by some people). Over his career, he's ranked in the Top 5 in key categories as follows:
Total Completions - Once
Completion % - Never
Passing Yards - 3 times
Passing TD - 3 times
YPA - Once
Passer Rating - Never
Game Winning Drives - 3 times
Fumbles - Twice
INT - Five times
Are people still clamoring that he is a mortal lock HOFer?
Total Completions - Never
Completion % - 1
Passing Yards - Never
Passing TD - 1
YPA - 5
Passer Rating - 5
Game Winning Drives - 2
INT - 2
Something this doesn't show though... the reason that these stats mean nothing to me. You're ignoring pass attempts. Eli has been Top 5 twice in his career in attempts, Ben has only been Top 10 once and it was last year. Most years he was in the bottom half of the league for pass attempts which makes it a lot LOT easier to be top 5 in things like Completion percentage and YPA and Passer rating. Ben is considered by most a consensus first ballot HoFer but he's really never had any 'Elite" seasons... he's only eclipsed 520 attempts once in his career. And he averages 434.6 a season on his career. Eli eclipsed 520 7/10 seasons and averages 500.8 attempts per season. I'm not trying to argue he is a top 5 QB in this league, point is when the game is on the line he knows how to win. Just like Ben does, it's reasons like that which make him a lock for the HoF in my opinion. Stats are wonderful, but go ask Marino if he'd give back 20,000 of his career passing yards just to have one ring, I bet he'd do it in a heartbeat.
Eli had had one season with a VBD over 20, don't expect him to suddenly be a difference maker.
I've been following this more so out of concern for his WRs. I have Cruz in a couple leagues who had two very good seasons before this last one. We don't need Eli to be a difference maker in order for his weapons to be.Eli had had one season with a VBD over 20, don't expect him to suddenly be a difference maker.
I would expect the usual yardage production (~4000) and a bounce back to 25-30 TD's. I think the receivers will be fine and Cruz should have his usual 80/1100 and close to 10 TD's (high WR2, low WR1).John 14:6 said:I've been following this more so out of concern for his WRs. I have Cruz in a couple leagues who had two very good seasons before this last one. We don't need Eli to be a difference maker in order for his weapons to be.cstu said:Eli had had one season with a VBD over 20, don't expect him to suddenly be a difference maker.Faust said:
The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.
Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.
Source: Newark Star-Ledger
Jun 23 - 1:19 PM
Watch out for the Giants this year. Cruz, Randle and Beckham? That is going to be a group of WRS we will be talking a lot of good things about. Cruz is Cruz and Randle showed he has what it takes to do good things in this league and Beckham was a first rounder for a reason. Eli had a horrible offensive line and no #2 WR with how Nicks was playing. Eli is not a good QB for fantasy purposes but he is good enough to at least hit WRs in stride more time than not. They should have a better running game to help out Eli too so that is some added relief.Rotoworld:
The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.
Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.
Source: Newark Star-Ledger
Jun 23 - 1:19 PM
It might help Eli, but he's never been as good as Rivers, so I wouldn't expect similar results.Rotoworld:
The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.
Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.
Source: Newark Star-Ledger
Jun 23 - 1:19 PM
Say what you will, but Rivers also played most of his formative years in Norv Turner's offense which is incredibly QB friendly. Eli's played almost his entire career under Captain Crunch in a terribly unfriendly to QB system. I think people are going to be surprised with Eli's numbers this year.It might help Eli, but he's never been as good as Rivers, so I wouldn't expect similar results.Rotoworld:
The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.
Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.
Source: Newark Star-Ledger
Jun 23 - 1:19 PM
So you are expecting Eli to put up numbers this season that are similar to Rivers' numbers last season? Good luck with that.Say what you will, but Rivers also played most of his formative years in Norv Turner's offense which is incredibly QB friendly. Eli's played almost his entire career under Captain Crunch in a terribly unfriendly to QB system. I think people are going to be surprised with Eli's numbers this year.It might help Eli, but he's never been as good as Rivers, so I wouldn't expect similar results.Rotoworld:
The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.
Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.
Source: Newark Star-Ledger
Jun 23 - 1:19 PM
...where did I say that?So you are expecting Eli to put up numbers this season that are similar to Rivers' numbers last season? Good luck with that.Say what you will, but Rivers also played most of his formative years in Norv Turner's offense which is incredibly QB friendly. Eli's played almost his entire career under Captain Crunch in a terribly unfriendly to QB system. I think people are going to be surprised with Eli's numbers this year.It might help Eli, but he's never been as good as Rivers, so I wouldn't expect similar results.Rotoworld:
The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.
Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.
Source: Newark Star-Ledger
Jun 23 - 1:19 PM
You are projecting him for:Khy said:...where did I say that?Just Win Baby said:So you are expecting Eli to put up numbers this season that are similar to Rivers' numbers last season? Good luck with that.Khy said:Say what you will, but Rivers also played most of his formative years in Norv Turner's offense which is incredibly QB friendly. Eli's played almost his entire career under Captain Crunch in a terribly unfriendly to QB system. I think people are going to be surprised with Eli's numbers this year.Just Win Baby said:It might help Eli, but he's never been as good as Rivers, so I wouldn't expect similar results.Faust said:Rotoworld:
The Giants are installing a "quick-hitting passing attack that is predicated on timing" under new OC Ben McAdoo.
Per beat writer Jordan Raanan, the biggest benefit may be simplification of route concepts for players like Rueben Randle, while the offensive line isn't asked to hold blocks as long. The Chargers took a similar approach with Philip Rivers last year, and it paid off handsomely en route to NFL Comeback Player of the Year honors. It remains to be seen whether Eli Manning possesses the short to intermediate accuracy to make a Rivers-like late-career leap.
Source: Newark Star-Ledger
Jun 23 - 1:19 PM
EDIT: I actually do fully believe his numbers will come close to that, for fantasy purposes at least. But no where in my quote above did I come even remotely close to stating that, you simply put words into my mouth.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=707692&hl=%2Bspotlight+%2Bgiants
In the Giants spotlight thread I stated that my projections for Eli this season were 352/550 4400 yards 34 TDs 15 INTs... I still firmly believe that's well within the realm of possibility. It was only 2 years ago that he threw for 5000 yards and 29 TDs, I don't think 4400 yards and 34 is out of the realm of possibility. In the above link you'll see all my reasoning for why I feel these are very reasonable projections. Feel free to make the generic statement of or simply as I'm sure you will. But the whole point of these boards is to project people. It's not like I'm projecting him for 5000 yards and 50 TDs or something that outside the realm of possibility. I just truly feel that he will thrive and have a shot at Comeback Player this season.