Peterson charged with reckless or negligent injury to a child? (1 Viewer)

[RhymesMcJuice]

WHich was stupid. He got punished more for lying than for the act itself. Dumb.

But still................there is no legal action taken against him, and he is out.

What happened to "first offense is 6 games"?????? He isnt even in legal trouble and he is out for a long long time it seems.

If there was no video that's the worst he would have got. The problem for Rice is that video was a huge black eye for the NFL so he got a year.

Assume Peterson didn't film himself whooping his son he's not going to get more than 6 games, 7 if this week's deactivation isn't counted.

 

[Johnny Blood]

Yeah again everyone is talking about league suspensions. Why don't you think about what the Vikings are going to do? Take a look at the last few players of their accused (not convicted) of domestic violence. Now magnify that by 100x.

 

[ghostguy123]

And again, I am not really judging Peterson. Saying he went to far isnt juding him, because he DID go too far based on THE LAW!!!

I never once mentioned he is a bad parent or has no grasp on discipline. I have no idea how he is as a father, neither do you, neither does ANY of us. However, I know in THIS ONE CASE he went to far with physical discipline.

 

[fourd]

I keep coming up with reasons or points that I feel might be relevent but then I ask myself does any of this excuse Peterson or lessen what he actually did? And the answer is 100% NO. Not being able to get over that question makes it very difficult to argue or even mildly debate with folks who are adamently pissed off about the entire situation and want Peterson banished from the league. I don't quite share those views but it's very difficult to offer up reasons as to why.

I share similar sentiments. Though much of my frustration has more to do with the subconscious biases and prejudices in this witchhunt. For many it seems the question of how to raise your children has an universal answer. This could not be further from the truth, as evidenced by the public's reaction thusfar. The NFL is in similarly uncomfortable shoes as they will ultimately have to take an official stance on parenting at some point, without the qualifications to do so.

It's a deeply complicated constitutional issue much like debates surrounding the extension of first amendment rights. I will tell you one thing though, the answer isn't going to come from a fantasy football message board.

No, there is no universal way to raise children. But universally what AP did here was wrong.

There are people in Texas who want to know what the boy did before they decide.

So it could be the 4-year old's fault. He deserved it based on his actions. Well, I'm sure he'll never do whatever he did again. I guess he also deserves to live with the fear that his dad could punch him in the mouth. Or knowing that he may have to put leaves in his mouth. Yep, let's wait to find out exactly what he did.

I'd hold off on what a 4 year old recollects as being how it went down. They don't tend to be the best at accurately describing what took place and sometimes take things out of context but don't let that slow you down in your rush to judgement.

First, the response was to how some in Texas are waiting to hear what the kid did. What the kid did to deserve his whipping. I take it you must think there was some justification for this. Or maybe the 4-year old is making it all up. Kids these days are amazing at what they can do. Pretty sure he photoshopped the pictures of his injuries. And he probably made his dad tell the police that he hit him. And he probably had his dad's phone and sent those texts. Might have made up the whole story. Rush to judgement? No, AP will work through the legal system with the best representation money can buy. And you can continue to act as if there is an excuse for the behavior what AP did.

 

[ghostguy123]

WHich was stupid. He got punished more for lying than for the act itself. Dumb.

But still................there is no legal action taken against him, and he is out.

What happened to "first offense is 6 games"?????? He isnt even in legal trouble and he is out for a long long time it seems.

If there was no video that's the worst he would have got. The problem for Rice is that video was a huge black eye for the NFL so he got a year.

Assume Peterson didn't film himself whooping his son he's not going to get more than 6 games, 7 if this week's deactivation isn't counted.

Exactly the reason I have said 100 times there is no point even making a policy for this kinda stuff, cause they just change it on a whim anyway.

 

[RhymesMcJuice]

i don't have kids so maybe i'm talking out of my ###, but if it would be considered assault against any other person why would he get a pass because it's his kid?

Parents have the right to hit their kids within reason.

Yeah, but he's asking "Why?"

I think the answer is basically that we consider kids to be, in a way, the property of their parents. Obviously a kid has more rights than other property, like a car or TV or even a dog.

Oh, why? No good reasons but parents were raised that way and told that it's the right way to raise kids. No one is required to take parenting classes when they have a child so violence may be all they know what to use to correct behavior. It's also fast and easy.

 

[kd1]

And again, I am not really judging Peterson. Saying he went to far isnt juding him, because he DID go too far based on THE LAW!!!

I never once mentioned he is a bad parent or has no grasp on discipline. I have no idea how he is as a father, neither do you, neither does ANY of us. However, I know in THIS ONE CASE he went to far with physical discipline.

You conveniently avoided my question. I'll ask again:

What if your kid's pain tolerance is 1/100th of Peterson's? Do you know for a fact that it isn't? Do you know for a fact that the pain that you put on your kid hurt him less than the pain that Peterson cause his kid??

 

[ghostguy123]

And again, I am not really judging Peterson. Saying he went to far isnt juding him, because he DID go too far based on THE LAW!!!

I never once mentioned he is a bad parent or has no grasp on discipline. I have no idea how he is as a father, neither do you, neither does ANY of us. However, I know in THIS ONE CASE he went to far with physical discipline.

You conveniently avoided my question. I'll ask again:

What if your kid's pain tolerance is 1/100th of Peterson's? Do you know for a fact that it isn't? Do you know for a fact that the pain that you put on your kid hurt him less than the pain that Peterson cause his kid??

If I can't figure out how much pain my kid is in, I should't be doing anything like this. Thanks for using something super extreme though. Real helpful. What kind of disease does my kid have to have here for that to be the case?? Will hugging my kid given them PTSD or something?

 

[RBM]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

I'm definitely in the camp of "I'd never land a hand on my child" but most of that side is extremely loud and obnoxious.

 

[ghostguy123]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

I'm definitely in the camp of "I'd never land a hand on my child" but most of that side is extremely loud and obnoxious.

They seem to be comparing a slap on the behind to punching your kid in the face. That's the problem.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

Disciplining children is not like cut and dry like other crimes such as robbery or murder, which are fairly black and white.The use of physical punishment as a disciplining technique and it's acceptance, level of frequency/techniques... Is something that varies greatly from culture to culture, and even in most American cultures, has evolved and changed over time.

I think it's fair for folks to caveat their opinions/analysis as being prevalent to the times we live in now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel if we were living 50 years in 1964, there's a high probability this incident has far less consequences, if any.

I'm not saying that is right, but it's the way things are and how they've changed over time. Does a kid get expelled from school if his mom accidentally left a butter knife in his backpack in 1964. People are just framing the issue relative to the current social norms and expectations.

 

[qimqam]

Peterson is going down for 6, folks, but probably not until next year.

What he's charged with is a state jail felony which carries a 6 month minimum sentence (up to two years). He could try to beat the charge but there's too much risk and will need to plea down to domestic assault - a misdemeanor that carries no mandatory jail time - and get off with probation.

If he takes that plea then he's certain to get a 6 game suspension under the new domestic violence policy.

SInce when does it matter what happens with the courts? Rice got the equivalent of no punishment from the courts and he is out indefinitely.

Rice not only committed a crime of which there's no reasonable excuse but he lied about it and most importantly there was video. Remember he got only 2 games before the video went public.

WHich was stupid. He got punished more for lying than for the act itself. Dumb.

But still................there is no legal action taken against him, and he is out.

What happened to "first offense is 6 games"?????? He isnt even in legal trouble and he is out for a long long time it seems.

I doesn't really matter what the NFL did to Rice and what they will do to Peterson.

Rice was released by the Ravens before the NFL suspended him because they don't want a women beater representing their team and no other team is going to want to deal with him.

Peterson is probably going to get the same treatment for being a child beater.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

If people are in pain from shaking AP's hand, I can only imagine what it feels like to catch a "whoopin" from him with a switch.

 

[chinawildman]

Somebody with your views on the matter shouldn't be judging Peterson.

Statements like this are the reason why there is an impasse in discussions about this issue.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

Controlling a kid with pain, fear, and humiliation is not "discipline". There's no evidence supporting it as a successful long term technique while there's plenty of studies stating that even just spanking can lead to anti-social behavior, aggression, etc. It's cowardly and barbaric.

It's Texas. They look it up in their gut. They don't need some egghead scientists, who probably never even were beaten by their parents, telling them what the evidence supports.

i went to elementary school in texas to a magnet school so there were all races, i never noticed lashes on any kids legs and none of my friends got hit with branches. spanking with a paddle was worst i personally saw and the principle could paddle kids as long as the parents didn't opt out.

I just don't think lashings like that are common practice even in Texas, but could be wrong.

 

[golfguy]

I love how we continue to argue 10 billion different discplinary scenarios with a couple comments. Seriously, love it.

A pat on the butt is the same as 400 lashings apparently.

Bascially, I am and will always be a firm believer than some physical discpline can be VERY effective with raising children. However, I also am a firm believe that it will only work if the person doing it knows what the heck they are doing. Does not appear AP knows what he is doing. Clearly went too far.

And some people think it's disgusting to use physical discipline of any kind. Some would say that makes you a sick monster. "It's ok to cause as much pain as I think is appropriate" (which is exactly what you're saying), is a demented stance to take, and all you are really doing is throwing stones in a glass house when you (specifically) are judging him.

No, I said it's ok to punish to a level that is appropriate for that exact situation. Not what some people THINK is appropriate, which is why I said that the person doing it needs to know what they are doing with good rationale for the EXACT situation.

Yeah...you're trying to write the rules and be the arbiter of what level of physical beating is appropriate.

You are in favor of inflicting pain upon children as a means of discipline. You seem to be having a hard time grasping the fact that many people find that alone to be disgusting. What if your kid's pain tolerance is 1/100th of Peterson's? Do you know for a fact that it isn't? Do you know for a fact that the pain that you put on your kid hurt him less than the pain that Peterson caused his kid??

Somebody with your views on the matter shouldn't be judging Peterson.

you can't even be serious here. you are comparing someone who uses an open hand to spank their kid on the butt a few times or maybe even one time to someone who used a tree branch and caused cuts and bleeding.

 

[ghostguy123]

Somebody with your views on the matter shouldn't be judging Peterson.

Statements like this are the reason why there is an impasse in discussions about this issue.

Usually the people that say things like that are the ones that shouldn't be allowed to judge someone. Obvious flaw in there somewhere.

 

[kd1]

I love how we continue to argue 10 billion different discplinary scenarios with a couple comments. Seriously, love it.

A pat on the butt is the same as 400 lashings apparently.

Bascially, I am and will always be a firm believer than some physical discpline can be VERY effective with raising children. However, I also am a firm believe that it will only work if the person doing it knows what the heck they are doing. Does not appear AP knows what he is doing. Clearly went too far.

And some people think it's disgusting to use physical discipline of any kind. Some would say that makes you a sick monster. "It's ok to cause as much pain as I think is appropriate" (which is exactly what you're saying), is a demented stance to take, and all you are really doing is throwing stones in a glass house when you (specifically) are judging him.

No, I said it's ok to punish to a level that is appropriate for that exact situation. Not what some people THINK is appropriate, which is why I said that the person doing it needs to know what they are doing with good rationale for the EXACT situation.

Yeah...you're trying to write the rules and be the arbiter of what level of physical beating is appropriate.

You are in favor of inflicting pain upon children as a means of discipline. You seem to be having a hard time grasping the fact that many people find that alone to be disgusting. What if your kid's pain tolerance is 1/100th of Peterson's? Do you know for a fact that it isn't? Do you know for a fact that the pain that you put on your kid hurt him less than the pain that Peterson caused his kid??

Somebody with your views on the matter shouldn't be judging Peterson.

you can't even be serious here. you are comparing someone who uses an open hand to spank their kid on the butt a few times or maybe even one time to someone who used a tree branch and caused cuts and bleeding.

AKA 2 guys who both use inflicting physical pain as a means of disciplining their kids. Cuts and bruises are not indicators of the amount of pain that the kid is experiencing.

 

[treat88]

Somebody with your views on the matter shouldn't be judging Peterson.

Statements like this are the reason why there is an impasse in discussions about this issue.

I don't think this was really headed towards any type of consensus regardless.

It's an emotionally charged issue for sure.

Well heeled, moderate discussion will be hard to come by for a while.

 

[chinawildman]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

Disciplining children is not like cut and dry like other crimes such as robbery or murder, which are fairly black and white.The use of physical punishment as a disciplining technique and it's acceptance, level of frequency/techniques... Is something that varies greatly from culture to culture, and even in most American cultures, has evolved and changed over time.

I think it's fair for folks to caveat their opinions/analysis as being prevalent to the times we live in now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel if we were living 50 years in 1964, there's a high probability this incident has far less consequences, if any.

I'm not saying that is right, but it's the way things are and how they've changed over time. Does a kid get expelled from school if his mom accidentally left a butter knife in his backpack in 1964. People are just framing the issue relative to the current social norms and expectations.

That's not really what I was trying to say. My problem was with the tone and absolutism with which these statements are delivered. Why is personal opinion eschewed in favor of more dramatic broad sweeping general statements about "society"?

All we have are our own experiences, and thus our opinions are likely strongly biased based on those experiences. Yet the way people are delivering their opinions you'd think they're writing the rulebook on child abuse for EVERYBODY.

 

[General Tso]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

Because living in modern society means that what is one family's domestic violence problem soon becomes society's violence problem. These people that are abused don't grow up in a vacuum. Unfortunately, and the statistics and research supports this, victims of abuse often commit the same abuse on others.

 

[skinsrule05]

Yeah again everyone is talking about league suspensions. Why don't you think about what the Vikings are going to do? Take a look at the last few players of their accused (not convicted) of domestic violence. Now magnify that by 100x.

Very good point. Factor in the backlash they just saw the Ravens get by not acting in the first place.

 

[fourd]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

Disciplining children is not like cut and dry like other crimes such as robbery or murder, which are fairly black and white.The use of physical punishment as a disciplining technique and it's acceptance, level of frequency/techniques... Is something that varies greatly from culture to culture, and even in most American cultures, has evolved and changed over time.

I think it's fair for folks to caveat their opinions/analysis as being prevalent to the times we live in now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel if we were living 50 years in 1964, there's a high probability this incident has far less consequences, if any.

I'm not saying that is right, but it's the way things are and how they've changed over time. Does a kid get expelled from school if his mom accidentally left a butter knife in his backpack in 1964. People are just framing the issue relative to the current social norms and expectations.

That's not really what I was trying to say. My problem was with the tone and absolutism with which these statements are delivered. Why is personal opinion eschewed in favor of more dramatic broad sweeping general statements about "society"?

All we have are our own experiences, and thus our opinions are likely strongly biased based on those experiences. Yet the way people are delivering their opinions you'd think they're writing the rulebook on child abuse for EVERYBODY.

They have a rulebook in Texas and it's called the penal code. And the prosecutor believes Peterson violated a part of it. No one on this board brought the charges. And I don't see any difference in those giving their opinions than you giving yours.

 

[ghostguy123]

I doesn't really matter what the NFL did to Rice and what they will do to Peterson.

Rice was released by the Ravens before the NFL suspended him because they don't want a women beater representing their team and no other team is going to want to deal with him.

Peterson is probably going to get the same treatment for being a child beater.

Sure they released him, but his NFL suspension still matters, and it is still different than what they said it would be.

ANd in a way, I think what RIce did is worse than what Peterson did. Not that I agree or condone it, but the very people who are going to displine AP were likey spanked as children.

Plus it's a weird comparison. 99.9999% of people will say it's not ok to Mike Tyson your fiance in a hotel elevator. But about 50-50 will say some forms of this type of punishment are ok.

The act itself is probably worse because it is a kid, but the intent is way different.

Either way, doesnt matter what any of us think, it only matters what Goodell thinks we will think about his punishment.

 

[ghostguy123]

AKA 2 guys who both use inflicting physical pain as a means of disciplining their kids. Cuts and bruises are not indicators of the amount of pain that the kid is experiencing.

Maybe AP's kid has the highest pain tolerance in history. It is AP's kid after all.

Sarcasm is fun

 

[golfguy]

I love how we continue to argue 10 billion different discplinary scenarios with a couple comments. Seriously, love it.

A pat on the butt is the same as 400 lashings apparently.

Bascially, I am and will always be a firm believer than some physical discpline can be VERY effective with raising children. However, I also am a firm believe that it will only work if the person doing it knows what the heck they are doing. Does not appear AP knows what he is doing. Clearly went too far.

And some people think it's disgusting to use physical discipline of any kind. Some would say that makes you a sick monster. "It's ok to cause as much pain as I think is appropriate" (which is exactly what you're saying), is a demented stance to take, and all you are really doing is throwing stones in a glass house when you (specifically) are judging him.

No, I said it's ok to punish to a level that is appropriate for that exact situation. Not what some people THINK is appropriate, which is why I said that the person doing it needs to know what they are doing with good rationale for the EXACT situation.

Yeah...you're trying to write the rules and be the arbiter of what level of physical beating is appropriate.

You are in favor of inflicting pain upon children as a means of discipline. You seem to be having a hard time grasping the fact that many people find that alone to be disgusting. What if your kid's pain tolerance is 1/100th of Peterson's? Do you know for a fact that it isn't? Do you know for a fact that the pain that you put on your kid hurt him less than the pain that Peterson caused his kid??

Somebody with your views on the matter shouldn't be judging Peterson.

you can't even be serious here. you are comparing someone who uses an open hand to spank their kid on the butt a few times or maybe even one time to someone who used a tree branch and caused cuts and bleeding.

AKA 2 guys who both use inflicting physical pain as a means of disciplining their kids. Cuts and bruises are not indicators of the amount of pain that the kid is experiencing.

I would certainly beg to differ on that one. if someone punches me and leaves no mark and someone punches me hard enough to leave a mark. I know who hit me harder.

and you seem to love tossing out "inflicting pain" as if he enjoys it or gets pleasure out of doing it. that is a pretty big jump there.

 

[jonessed]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

Disciplining children is not like cut and dry like other crimes such as robbery or murder, which are fairly black and white.The use of physical punishment as a disciplining technique and it's acceptance, level of frequency/techniques... Is something that varies greatly from culture to culture, and even in most American cultures, has evolved and changed over time.

I think it's fair for folks to caveat their opinions/analysis as being prevalent to the times we live in now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel if we were living 50 years in 1964, there's a high probability this incident has far less consequences, if any.

I'm not saying that is right, but it's the way things are and how they've changed over time. Does a kid get expelled from school if his mom accidentally left a butter knife in his backpack in 1964. People are just framing the issue relative to the current social norms and expectations.

That's not really what I was trying to say. My problem was with the tone and absolutism with which these statements are delivered. Why is personal opinion eschewed in favor of more dramatic broad sweeping general statements about "society"?

All we have are our own experiences, and thus our opinions are likely strongly biased based on those experiences. Yet the way people are delivering their opinions you'd think they're writing the rulebook on child abuse for EVERYBODY.

They have a rulebook in Texas and it's called the penal code. And the prosecutor believes Peterson violated a part of it. No one on this board brought the charges. And I don't see any difference in those giving their opinions than you giving yours.

No one anywhere has brought charges yet.

 

[ghostguy123]

I would certainly beg to differ on that one. if someone punches me and leaves no mark and someone punches me hard enough to leave a mark. I know who hit me harder.

and you seem to love tossing out "inflicting pain" as if he enjoys it or gets pleasure out of doing it. that is a pretty big jump there.

Quit while you are ahead in this out of touch with reality gent we are talking to. I have just done the same.

So what punishment would the league have handed out for this back in May? SHouldnt they maybe punish based on what the rules were AT THE TIME someone did something?? Or is that using too much common sense.

 

[RhymesMcJuice]

AKA 2 guys who both use inflicting physical pain as a means of disciplining their kids. Cuts and bruises are not indicators of the amount of pain that the kid is experiencing.

Maybe AP's kid has the highest pain tolerance in history. It is AP's kid after all.

Sarcasm is fun

AP said he didn't cry during it.

 

[ghostguy123]

AKA 2 guys who both use inflicting physical pain as a means of disciplining their kids. Cuts and bruises are not indicators of the amount of pain that the kid is experiencing.

Maybe AP's kid has the highest pain tolerance in history. It is AP's kid after all.

Sarcasm is fun

AP said he didn't cry during it.

That is Denzel-esque.

On a slightly more serious note though, depending on the response to this type of punishment, the punishment isn't going to work. Yes, there is actually literature on this kinda stuff.

 

[fourd]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

Disciplining children is not like cut and dry like other crimes such as robbery or murder, which are fairly black and white.The use of physical punishment as a disciplining technique and it's acceptance, level of frequency/techniques... Is something that varies greatly from culture to culture, and even in most American cultures, has evolved and changed over time.

I think it's fair for folks to caveat their opinions/analysis as being prevalent to the times we live in now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel if we were living 50 years in 1964, there's a high probability this incident has far less consequences, if any.

I'm not saying that is right, but it's the way things are and how they've changed over time. Does a kid get expelled from school if his mom accidentally left a butter knife in his backpack in 1964. People are just framing the issue relative to the current social norms and expectations.

That's not really what I was trying to say. My problem was with the tone and absolutism with which these statements are delivered. Why is personal opinion eschewed in favor of more dramatic broad sweeping general statements about "society"?

All we have are our own experiences, and thus our opinions are likely strongly biased based on those experiences. Yet the way people are delivering their opinions you'd think they're writing the rulebook on child abuse for EVERYBODY.

They have a rulebook in Texas and it's called the penal code. And the prosecutor believes Peterson violated a part of it. No one on this board brought the charges. And I don't see any difference in those giving their opinions than you giving yours.

No one anywhere has brought charges yet.

Really?

 

[kd1]

I love how we continue to argue 10 billion different discplinary scenarios with a couple comments. Seriously, love it.

A pat on the butt is the same as 400 lashings apparently.

Bascially, I am and will always be a firm believer than some physical discpline can be VERY effective with raising children. However, I also am a firm believe that it will only work if the person doing it knows what the heck they are doing. Does not appear AP knows what he is doing. Clearly went too far.

And some people think it's disgusting to use physical discipline of any kind. Some would say that makes you a sick monster. "It's ok to cause as much pain as I think is appropriate" (which is exactly what you're saying), is a demented stance to take, and all you are really doing is throwing stones in a glass house when you (specifically) are judging him.

No, I said it's ok to punish to a level that is appropriate for that exact situation. Not what some people THINK is appropriate, which is why I said that the person doing it needs to know what they are doing with good rationale for the EXACT situation.

Yeah...you're trying to write the rules and be the arbiter of what level of physical beating is appropriate.

You are in favor of inflicting pain upon children as a means of discipline. You seem to be having a hard time grasping the fact that many people find that alone to be disgusting. What if your kid's pain tolerance is 1/100th of Peterson's? Do you know for a fact that it isn't? Do you know for a fact that the pain that you put on your kid hurt him less than the pain that Peterson caused his kid??

Somebody with your views on the matter shouldn't be judging Peterson.

you can't even be serious here. you are comparing someone who uses an open hand to spank their kid on the butt a few times or maybe even one time to someone who used a tree branch and caused cuts and bleeding.

AKA 2 guys who both use inflicting physical pain as a means of disciplining their kids. Cuts and bruises are not indicators of the amount of pain that the kid is experiencing.

I would certainly beg to differ on that one. if someone punches me and leaves no mark and someone punches me hard enough to leave a mark. I know who hit me harder.

and you seem to love tossing out "inflicting pain" as if he enjoys it or gets pleasure out of doing it. that is a pretty big jump there.

lol...maybe you should grab a dictionary and look up "inflict".

here's an extreme example, but hopefully it can help you understand: would you rather take a punch to the face that leaves no mark, or a kick to your thigh that leaves a huge bruise?

also, punching 10 people in the same spot and same force that leaves a bruise on you, would not leave the same bruise (or any bruise, necessarily) on the other 9 people. Bruises and scratches are not indicators of levels of pain.

 

[ghostguy123]

Is there a point or an argument in there anywhere??

Queue Billy Madison

 

[shader]

i don't have kids so maybe i'm talking out of my ###, but if it would be considered assault against any other person why would he get a pass because it's his kid?

It's the law

 

[Aurren]

I'm a licensed attorney in the State of Texas and I was curious so I did a brief search for case law. I found Assiter v. State, 58 S.W.3d 743 (Court of Appeals), opinion can be found HERE. DISCLAIMER: I do not practice criminal defense nor family law. I'm sure someone else might be able to give more relevant analysis.

I've highlighted these passages from the Court's Opinion to give the board some context when talking about Texas Law.

BACKGROUND
On August 27, 1997, appellant Stephen Assiter spanked three of his children, Chris, Wendy and Tye, after they denied breaking a thermometer located in the minnow room of a marina which was operated by appellant and his wife. After each child received six “licks” with a boat oar, Chris admitted that he broke the thermometer, and appellant stopped spanking the children. The following day, Tye complained to his schoolteacher that he had been spanked and would not be able to run during recess or his P.E. class because he was sore. A school nurse examined Tye and found bruises on his buttocks. Chris and Wendy were also examined, and both children had bruises on their buttocks as well. School officials contacted the Briscoe County Sheriff and Child Protective Services, and appellant was eventually indicted for intentionally and knowingly2 causing bodily injury to each of the three children, who were then younger than 15 years of age, by hitting each child with a wooden object. The indictments also included a charge that appellant intentionally, knowingly and recklessly caused bodily injury to each child. See TEX.PEN.CODE ANN. § 22.04(a)(3), ©(1) (Vernon 1994). The verdict forms as to whether appellant recklessly caused bodily injury to the children were submitted contingent on not guilty answers to the verdict forms on whether appellant intentionally or knowingly caused bodily injury to the children. Because the jury found appellant guilty of intentionally or knowingly causing bodily injury to the children, the jury did not answer the forms inquiring whether he recklessly caused bodily injury to the children.

The Penal Code defines bodily injury as “physical pain, illness, or any impairment of physical condition.” TEX.PEN.CODE ANN. § 1.07(a)(8) (Vernon 1994). A parent may use force, but not deadly force, against a child younger than 18 years if the parent “reasonably believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote his welfare.” See id. at §§ 9.02, 9 .61(a). Reasonable belief is defined as “a belief that would be held by an ordinary and prudent man in the same circumstances as the actor.” Id. at § 1.07(42). The use of force under section 9.61 is not justified simply because of a parent's subjective belief that the force is necessary; rather, the use of force is justified only if a reasonable person would have believed the force was necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote the child's welfare. See generally, Teubner v. State, 742 S.W.2d 57, 59 (Tex.App.—Houston [14th Dist.] 1987, pet. ref'd), cert. denied, 486 U.S. 1043, 108 S.Ct. 2036, 100 L.Ed.2d 621 (1988) (section 9.61 justifies force against a child under a “reasonable belief” standard). The standard is an objective standard. See id .

14 Injury to a child is considered a result-oriented crime; that is, the accused acts with intent if it is his conscious objective or desire to cause the result. See Alvarado v. State, 704 S.W.2d 36, 39 (Tex.Crim.App.1985); Dues v. State, 634 S.W.2d 304, 305 (Tex.Crim.App.1982); Hill v. State, 883 S.W.2d 765, 769 (Tex.App.—Amarillo 1994, pet. ref'd). Intent may be inferred from the acts and the words of the accused, as well as the surrounding circumstances. See Hill, 883 S.W.2d at 769.

B. Analysis

15 Tina Nance, Tye's schoolteacher, testified that on the morning of August 28, 1997, Tye told her he had been spanked and had “a big bruise.” Tye told her that it hurt him to sit in his chair because he was sore, and he would not be able to run at recess or in his P.E. class because of the soreness. Ms. Nance also observed that Tye had difficulty moving and walking. Ms. Nance testified that she went with Tye to the school nurse to obtain a written excuse for Tye's P.E. class. At the nurse's office, Ms. Nance viewed Tye's bruises and testified that the bruises were black and dark purple and approximately the size of a grapefruit on each buttock.

Lana Burson, the school nurse, testified that Tye had severe bruising with black, blue, and red coloring. Ms. Burson also viewed Wendy's buttocks and stated that both buttocks had dark black and blue bruises with red swollen areas, approximately ten to twelve centimeters in size. Ms. Burson took pictures of Wendy's buttocks. The pictures were entered into evidence by the State.
After Ms. Burson viewed Tye and Wendy, she contacted the Briscoe County Sheriff and Child Protective Services. She opined that she had 13 years experience as a nurse, and based on her experience, Tye's bruising was caused from “extensive trauma, force.”

Two other school officials also testified for the State. Patsy Towe, teacher and school counselor, stated that she saw all three children that morning. She viewed Wendy's buttocks and testified they were covered with black, blue, and purple bruises. She also observed that Chris was limping, and testified that he told her “he'd gotten a whipping the night before and that he had blisters.” Larry Mantle, teacher and football coach, viewed Chris's and Tye's buttocks during the morning and testified that black, purple, green, and red bruises covered the buttocks of both boys. He also stated that he had never seen bruises of that particular size before.

Sheriff Max Whitworth testified that he responded to a call from Ms. Burson, and saw Chris, Wendy, and Tye during the morning of August 28, 1997. He also viewed and photographed Chris's and Tye's buttocks and testified that both boys had swollen buttocks with red, purple, and black bruises. Sheriff Whitworth seized the wooden boat oar. The State introduced the oar into evidence. Sheriff Whitworth testified that his department had no prior reports of appellant's alleged abuse of his children.
Tye and Wendy were called to testify about their spankings during the State's case-in-chief. Both Tye and Wendy testified that appellant spanked them with the boat oar because neither one of them or Chris admitted to breaking the thermometer. Tye verified that he told his schoolteacher he needed an excuse for his P.E. class because his buttocks hurt. Wendy also verified that after all the children received their first three “licks,” she and Tye were crying and asked Chris to admit he broke the thermometer. Also, Wendy stated that the boat oar broke while the children were being spanked, and she thought it broke while Chris was being spanked.

Dr. Scott Blakeman testified on behalf of appellant. Dr. Blakeman saw the children during an office visit on September 3, 1997, approximately one week after the spankings occurred. Dr. Blakeman's medical specialty is in family practice, and Child Protective Services scheduled the appointment for the children. He testified that the children's bruises were “pretty much almost completely gone in a week.” He stated that severe bruises would take approximately two and one-half weeks to heal. Although Dr. Blakeman testified that the children were not in pain when he saw them, he agreed that based upon the State's photographs of the children's buttocks, the bruises would be painful.

Both appellant and his wife testified. Mrs. Assiter testified that she and her husband noticed the children's bruises the evening of the spankings, and her husband apologized to the children because “he didn't mean to spank them, you know, so hard that it would hurt their bottoms like that.” She also stated that Tye told her the morning after the spankings, “My bottom is sore.” During cross-examination, Mrs. Assiter testified that the children were yelling and crying after they were first spanked with the boat oar.

Appellant testified that he previously spanked the children on the bottom of their feet as a form of discipline, but this proved to be ineffective. Appellant claimed to also use other methods to discipline the children, including “timeouts” and removal of privileges. As a last resort, appellant testified that he spanked the children's buttocks with a hand, belt, or paddle. Appellant testified that he had used the boat oar to spank the children on previous occasions,5 but the children were not bruised on these occasions, nor did he intend to cause bruising by the spankings in question. Appellant acknowledged that he intended for the spankings to hurt a little bit as a form of punishment. He acknowledged that the children were crying loudly after he gave them their first three “licks.” Finally, appellant stated that he apologized to the children when he discovered their bruises and told them that the spankings were deliberate because they did not tell the truth about the thermometer, but that he did not intend to bruise them.

The guy's conviction was upheld by the Court of Appeals.

The ultimate question to a jury is "if a reasonable person would have believed the force was necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote the child's welfare." If I was on the jury I would return a guilty verdict. Peterson should probably plead out.

EDIT: added some bolding

 

[Vector]

Controlling a kid with pain, fear, and humiliation is not "discipline". There's no evidence supporting it as a successful long term technique while there's plenty of studies stating that even just spanking can lead to anti-social behavior, aggression, etc. It's cowardly and barbaric.

You realize, of course, that you have just accused millions of parents in this country of being cowards and barbarians.

You, sir, are a sociopath

 

[ang12]

Controlling a kid with pain, fear, and humiliation is not "discipline". There's no evidence supporting it as a successful long term technique while there's plenty of studies stating that even just spanking can lead to anti-social behavior, aggression, etc. It's cowardly and barbaric.

You realize, of course, that you have just accused millions of parents in this country of being cowards and barbarians.You, sir, are a sociopath

Not sure that makes me a sociopath but I stand by my opinion. While we're on the topic, I'll add that there have been studies that show a large number of sociopaths have been abused as a child.

 

[ghostguy123]

Controlling a kid with pain, fear, and humiliation is not "discipline". There's no evidence supporting it as a successful long term technique while there's plenty of studies stating that even just spanking can lead to anti-social behavior, aggression, etc. It's cowardly and barbaric.

You realize, of course, that you have just accused millions of parents in this country of being cowards and barbarians.You, sir, are a sociopath

Not sure that makes me a sociopath but I stand by my opinion. While we're on the topic, I'll add that there have been studies that show a large number of sociopaths have been abused as a child.

Yeah, but the kind of abuse isn't nearly the same as this particular case.

The kind of abuse those sociopaths received, well, not real comparable.

That and I have no idea why he called you a sociopath

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

AP's 4 year old son had lacerations and/or bruising on his butt, thighs, hands, and balls and AP stuffed his mouth with leaves while "whooping" him with a switch from a tree. He's been indicted (unlike rice). You don't think he's done?

 

[treat88]

Controlling a kid with pain, fear, and humiliation is not "discipline". There's no evidence supporting it as a successful long term technique while there's plenty of studies stating that even just spanking can lead to anti-social behavior, aggression, etc. It's cowardly and barbaric.

You realize, of course, that you have just accused millions of parents in this country of being cowards and barbarians.

You, sir, are a sociopath

Only a select minority of those millions cross the line between discipline and brutality. Those few deserve whatever epithets anyone chooses to direct their way. Peterson crossed that line.

Let's not act like this behavior is common place. It happens more frequently than it should without question, but that it no way makes it the norm.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

A proud proclamation that cowards that beat children should never see the football field again! And yet it also has the unfortunate effect of trampling the 5th amendment and due process rights of the accused.

The 5th amendment doesn't protect you from public disgrace, nor does it protect you from losing your job. People seem to keep conflating the possible legal ramifications with the other possible repercussions. No one's saying he should go to prison without having his day in court. But whether a Texas jury finds him guilty is very different than what the NFL has to consider.

Yes that is exactly my point. That in the internet age, due process can no longer protect someone from public defamation due to the speed at which information travels IS a problem.

What you're referring to can sometimes be a problem if someone is found "guilty" in the court of public opinion when they actually haven't committed the "crime" they've been accused of.

In this case, however, there's no doubt that Peterson beat a toddler. He has no right to be protected from public defamation for that. Whether or not a jury of twelve Texans decides to convict him is one matter, but it's well within everyone else's rights to express their opinions of what he did. No one's "trampling the 5th amendment" by opining that Peterson should face a long suspension from the NFL.

 

[ghostguy123]

. No one's "trampling the 5th amendment" by opining that Peterson should face a long suspension from the NFL.

I am probably in the minority, but I don't think Rice or Peterson should have been suspended by the NFL at all. I am aware WHY they are doing it, and it is 100% with the intent of trying to make (or save) more money, but I much prefer to let the legal system handle it.

If a guys goes to jail, well, obviously that would mimic a suspension.

Not condoning the behavior at all, but these arbitrary displines by the league are just silly to me.

 

[jonessed]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

Disciplining children is not like cut and dry like other crimes such as robbery or murder, which are fairly black and white.The use of physical punishment as a disciplining technique and it's acceptance, level of frequency/techniques... Is something that varies greatly from culture to culture, and even in most American cultures, has evolved and changed over time.

I think it's fair for folks to caveat their opinions/analysis as being prevalent to the times we live in now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel if we were living 50 years in 1964, there's a high probability this incident has far less consequences, if any.

I'm not saying that is right, but it's the way things are and how they've changed over time. Does a kid get expelled from school if his mom accidentally left a butter knife in his backpack in 1964. People are just framing the issue relative to the current social norms and expectations.

That's not really what I was trying to say. My problem was with the tone and absolutism with which these statements are delivered. Why is personal opinion eschewed in favor of more dramatic broad sweeping general statements about "society"?

All we have are our own experiences, and thus our opinions are likely strongly biased based on those experiences. Yet the way people are delivering their opinions you'd think they're writing the rulebook on child abuse for EVERYBODY.

They have a rulebook in Texas and it's called the penal code. And the prosecutor believes Peterson violated a part of it. No one on this board brought the charges. And I don't see any difference in those giving their opinions than you giving yours.

No one anywhere has brought charges yet.

Really?

Yes, really.

I suspect next week, but obviously no one knows.

 

[Niaboc]

if the whole ray rice incident didnt happen i would think roger would just do a couple days suspension. but since this whole nfl nonsense has gone into a soap opera im thinking roger will set an example on peterson to show everyone that he is still in control.

 

[ghostguy123]

if the whole ray rice incident didnt happen i would think roger would just do a couple days suspension. but since this whole nfl nonsense has gone into a soap opera im thinking roger will set an example on peterson to show everyone that he is still in control.

I hate it, and it is dumb, but I agree

 

[chinawildman]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

Disciplining children is not like cut and dry like other crimes such as robbery or murder, which are fairly black and white.The use of physical punishment as a disciplining technique and it's acceptance, level of frequency/techniques... Is something that varies greatly from culture to culture, and even in most American cultures, has evolved and changed over time.

I think it's fair for folks to caveat their opinions/analysis as being prevalent to the times we live in now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel if we were living 50 years in 1964, there's a high probability this incident has far less consequences, if any.

I'm not saying that is right, but it's the way things are and how they've changed over time. Does a kid get expelled from school if his mom accidentally left a butter knife in his backpack in 1964. People are just framing the issue relative to the current social norms and expectations.

That's not really what I was trying to say. My problem was with the tone and absolutism with which these statements are delivered. Why is personal opinion eschewed in favor of more dramatic broad sweeping general statements about "society"?

All we have are our own experiences, and thus our opinions are likely strongly biased based on those experiences. Yet the way people are delivering their opinions you'd think they're writing the rulebook on child abuse for EVERYBODY.

They have a rulebook in Texas and it's called the penal code. And the prosecutor believes Peterson violated a part of it. No one on this board brought the charges. And I don't see any difference in those giving their opinions than you giving yours.

Did you actually read my post? Can you tell the difference between:

1) I like Wendy's hamburgers

and

2) Wendy's hamburgers are the best. You haven't had a real burger until you've had a Wendy's hamburger.

Way too much of #2 in this thread. It's like people think they're the Skip Bayless of morality.

 

[Neofight]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

My friend, in case you have not noticed, this is America. P.S. Your constant proclamations of surprise and befuddlement through what has apparently now become soliloquy is some of the best drama in this forum, let alone the thread.

 

[qimqam]

http://www.dailynorseman.com/2014/9/12/6142533/the-vikings-should-release-adrian-peterson

Wow! I didn't even read these details! Peterson is screwed!

 

[chinawildman]

On another note what is with the degree to which people like to announce their disapproval? Why do we keep seeing broad sweeping declarations of righteousness like: "This behavior is not acceptable in any modern society" vs. more realistic and relevant statements like "I don't agree with what AP did"?

It's the same issue I have with reviews on Yelp that proclaim "Best burger in town!"... Really? You went to every single burger joint in town and this was the best? What's with all the self-important declarations? Nobody cares about what your ideas of ideal social norms are, so why get all dramatic about it?

My friend, in case you have not noticed, this is America.P.S. Your constant proclamations of surprise and befuddlement through what has apparently now become soliloquy is some of the best drama in this forum, let alone the thread.

Of course. More generalizations and false consensus bias. I would expect nothing less. Well done, I'm sure 100% of all Americans agree.

 

[General Tso]

Controlling a kid with pain, fear, and humiliation is not "discipline". There's no evidence supporting it as a successful long term technique while there's plenty of studies stating that even just spanking can lead to anti-social behavior, aggression, etc. It's cowardly and barbaric.

Seems like a lot of people in here support corporal punishment. You might want to check this out. http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking.aspx

Even better, feel free to do your own research on it. I haven't found any good material out there showing it's effectiveness from a long term standpoint. If someone could find such a study, please post it. I'd love to read it (seriously).