Official Johnny Manziel Thread (1 Viewer)

[Sabertooth]

Apology for the second post: whomever made the call for Manziel for CLE must be fired. GM's are the ultimate deciders but they pay scouts to get the basic stuff right.

And often ignore their own scouts.

 

[cjv123]

Apology for the second post: whomever made the call for Manziel for CLE must be fired. GM's are the ultimate deciders but they pay scouts to get the basic stuff right.

And often ignore their own scouts.

Yes, thanks, that is very possible as well.

 

[Peyton Marino]

Every throw was high or a looping duck. Like he was throwing over a row of trees.

How are you not on an NFL team's scouting payroll?

is he wrong?

Yes.

 

[zamboni]

Unless this guy really commits himself to his craft, he's going to be another guy in the scrap heap of QB failure. His athleticism worked wonders in college, but that alone obviously won't work well in the NFL.

 

[Sabertooth]

Even if he does all that, he's Tim Tebow lite. No way he's in the NFL in 2018.

 

[pantherclub]

Every throw was high or a looping duck. Like he was throwing over a row of trees.

How are you not on an NFL team's scouting payroll?

is he wrong?

Yes.

Really not sure what game you were watching but yesterday his throws were flat, lacked velocity and had absolutely no zip on them. But keep believing brother.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

He met all of my expectations, except for arm strength and post game interview poise, but my expectations were very, very low. He had much better arm strength than I thought. This is not to say that he had good or even adequate arm strength, but just much better than I thought. Also, I thought he might dodge the post game interview, or be more defensive, but he spoke as if he was being accountable.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

Maybe, but I'd like to see the list of recent rookies who played this poorly in their first start. I wonder how many of them ended up being decent players.

well, john elways first game starting he went 1-8 for 14 yards and a pick. next game was 9-21 for 104. and next game was 18-33 for 193 yards with 1 td and 2 picks.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00/gamelog/1983/

even andrew luck had 3 picks and 1 tds. 309 yards too.

montanas first start was 5-12 for 36 yards.

steve young started his career 72-138 for 935, with 3 tds and 8 ints.

generally, qbs struggle a ton in their first starts.

In Elway's first start, Steve DeBerg came in and almost won the game (10-14). Do you really think Elway ever threw a single pass as badly as every one of Manziel's throws yesterday? Elway started at the beginning of the season, whatever Cleveland's coaching staff has seen has led them to keep Manziel on the bench all year. They were still in contention and Denver had 14 first downs btw.

In Montana's first start he went 5/12/36/0 pass and 3/22/0 rushing. Again Steve DeBerg came in and almost won it (10-13). SF actually took the lead at one point and SF had 16 first downs.

Steve Young's first start he went 16/27/160/0 pass and 10/60/0 rush for an awful 2-14 Bucs team, and they won that game 27-14. Oddly enough he took over from the starter Steve DeBerg, but he did not have to come in. The Bucs won the game with Young leading the whole way and TB had 16 first downs.

Ryan Leaf btw went 16/31/197/1/2 and won his first start, he played the whole game and SD had 14 first downs.

I think what really stands out with Manziel, aside from his actual style of play, is that the Browns had 3 first downs rushing and passing the whole game. They did not even have 100 yards of offense until the final 30 seconds. The Browns were so out of it by the half they did not even bother to put in Hoyer.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Johnny Manziel, Browns provide a loss for the ages:

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/10539/johnny-manziel-browns-provide-a-loss-for-the-ages

CLEVELAND -- There are bad losses and there are painful losses

But in Johnny Manziel's first start, the Cleveland Browns put an historic loss on the field, up there with the worst of the many historic Browns losses since the team returned to the field in 1999. It came in a big game, at a time when a much-hyped quarterback was supposed to give a spark as Cleveland made a final playoff push.

All the talk all week was Manziel this and Manziel that. But everyone forgot that the other team has a say, and those with the Browns who felt Manziel would give the Browns a better chance to win have some seriously bad numbers to digest following a 30-0 loss Sunday.

Among them:

The Browns were shut out for the first time since November of 2009.

Manziel becomes the sixth quarterback in the last 20 years to be shut out in his first start, and the first since Rusty Smith of Tennessee in 2010. The others: Dave Ragone of Houston (2003), Henry Burris of Chicago (2002), Spergon Wynn of Cleveland (2000) and Danny Wuerffel of New Orleans (1997).

Manziel is the 21st starting quarterback for the Browns since 1999, and the fifth to be shut out in his first start. The others: Ty Detmer in the first game back in ’99, Bruce Gradkowski, Wynn and Doug Pederson. Pederson and Gradkowski joined the Browns the week before starting because of injuries to the starter.

The offense had more than 100 yards for the day only because the Bengals scored a touchdown with 30 seconds left. The Browns got a final play with 18 seconds left and Manziel threw a slip screen for nine yards.

To that point, the offense had the ball nine times, and had seven three-play possessions. Three of those were for negative yards.

The Browns ran 38 offensive plays, the fewest by any team this season and fewest by the Browns since Week 1 of 1999, when they ran 28 plays against the Steelers in a 43-0 loss.

...

These are the names that are the comparison right now.

And it's funny that the writer mentions Wuerffel because that's the name that was bandied about by a number of Saints fans I was watching the game with. Someone mentioned the only thing missing was seeing his helmet twisted totally around.

 

[Grahamburn]

If he gets the start, there's a good chance they beat Cincinnati with this guy because there will be no film on his unpredictability. It will be like Tebow when he started plus the ability to throw a football. Glad I picked him up because it will be entertaining.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Tim Tebow's first start:

8/16/138/1/0 pass

8/78/1/0 rush

23 points scored, lost to Oak 39-23, but the game was 20-20 in the 3rd quarter.

Just 9 first downs for Denver, but Tebow had a 40 yard TD run.

Most standard FF leagues I'm guessing that's about a 24-25 FF day, pretty darn good for a QB off the WW. - Manziel in most leagues scored around a -0.5-0.8.

 

[Peyton Marino]

Every throw was high or a looping duck. Like he was throwing over a row of trees.

How are you not on an NFL team's scouting payroll?

is he wrong?

Yes.

Really not sure what game you were watching but yesterday his throws were flat, lacked velocity and had absolutely no zip on them. But keep believing brother.

Yea and I said as much on the previous page of this thread. The way he described it was inaccurate (throws were not "high") and an overstatement of the facts (it wasn't as bad as you both make it seem and it wasn't "every throw").

No one here is saying he looked good. A lot of you are overstating how bad he looked and readying yourselves to crucify him after only one game.

 

[lod01]

If he gets the start, there's a good chance they beat Cincinnati with this guy because there will be no film on his unpredictability. It will be like Tebow when he started plus the ability to throw a football. Glad I picked him up because it will be entertaining.

We will get them this coming week. He's Johnny Football and he is going to wreck the league....or the Browns but make no mistake, someone is getting wrecked.

 

[cloppbeast]

Weak arm, small, not fast, but still trying to be a gun slinger. Something just doesn't add up.

 

[Grahamburn]

Weak arm, small, not fast, but still trying to be a gun slinger. Something just doesn't add up.

Mike Evans made this guy look like a star. Those jump balls he went up and plucked above smaller defenders get picked in the NFL. That interception in the end zone was probably an easy TD to Evans at A & M.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Weak arm, small, not fast, but still trying to be a gun slinger. Something just doesn't add up.

Mike Evans made this guy look like a star. Those jump balls he went up and plucked above smaller defenders get picked in the NFL. That interception in the end zone was probably an easy TD to Evans at A & M.

You would think he would have thrown it up to Gordon if anyone, not Gabriel (5'8, 167?), he was just throwing it up, literally and figuratively. I don't think he knew who was there.

 

[Sabertooth]

Gordon's value is in the crapper until they get somebody else.

 

[zamboni]

Gordon's value is in the crapper until they get somebody else.

Maybe not. Demeryius Thomas first became a stud when Tebow was back there.

 

[MAC_32]

Weak arm, small, not fast, but still trying to be a gun slinger. Something just doesn't add up.

Mike Evans made this guy look like a star. Those jump balls he went up and plucked above smaller defenders get picked in the NFL. That interception in the end zone was probably an easy TD to Evans at A & M.

You would think he would have thrown it up to Gordon if anyone, not Gabriel (5'8, 167?), he was just throwing it up, literally and figuratively. I don't think he knew who was there.

Gordon is not a 50/50 ball type of player. That's the sort of weapon the Browns need to add this offseason. Not a guy that necessarily has to win jump ball after jump ball, but can consistently get open in scramble mode. DeVante Parker immediately comes to mind.

 

[lod01]

Weak arm, small, not fast, but still trying to be a gun slinger. Something just doesn't add up.

Mike Evans made this guy look like a star. Those jump balls he went up and plucked above smaller defenders get picked in the NFL. That interception in the end zone was probably an easy TD to Evans at A & M.

Yeah, pretty much. Same thing with Derek Carr. Davante Adams made that guy a 2nd round pick. The only reason he wasn't a first round pick was because there was already a blueprint on him and that was David Carr.

 

[Faust]

Johnny Manziel: 'I'm not using the rookie excuse'

 

[Faust]

Tough to see where Johnny Manziel improved from preseason

 

[Faust]

Eric Davis: Playing Manziel one of worst decisions

 

[QuizGuy66]

its just one game. his first game. its a bit too early to write the guy off.

Maybe, but I'd like to see the list of recent rookies who played this poorly in their first start. I wonder how many of them ended up being decent players.

well, john elways first game starting he went 1-8 for 14 yards and a pick. next game was 9-21 for 104. and next game was 18-33 for 193 yards with 1 td and 2 picks.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00/gamelog/1983/

even andrew luck had 3 picks and 1 tds. 309 yards too.

montanas first start was 5-12 for 36 yards.

steve young started his career 72-138 for 935, with 3 tds and 8 ints.

generally, qbs struggle a ton in their first starts.

In Elway's first start, Steve DeBerg came in and almost won the game (10-14). Do you really think Elway ever threw a single pass as badly as every one of Manziel's throws yesterday? Elway started at the beginning of the season, whatever Cleveland's coaching staff has seen has led them to keep Manziel on the bench all year. They were still in contention and Denver had 14 first downs btw.

In Montana's first start he went 5/12/36/0 pass and 3/22/0 rushing. Again Steve DeBerg came in and almost won it (10-13). SF actually took the lead at one point and SF had 16 first downs.

Steve Young's first start he went 16/27/160/0 pass and 10/60/0 rush for an awful 2-14 Bucs team, and they won that game 27-14. Oddly enough he took over from the starter Steve DeBerg, but he did not have to come in. The Bucs won the game with Young leading the whole way and TB had 16 first downs.

Ryan Leaf btw went 16/31/197/1/2 and won his first start, he played the whole game and SD had 14 first downs.

I think what really stands out with Manziel, aside from his actual style of play, is that the Browns had 3 first downs rushing and passing the whole game. They did not even have 100 yards of offense until the final 30 seconds. The Browns were so out of it by the half they did not even bother to put in Hoyer.

Sounds like the Browns need to sign Steve DeBerg.

-QG

 

[QuizGuy66]

Eric Davis: Playing Manziel one of worst decisions

I'm chuckling b/c there was many an article ripping for the Browns for starting Hoyer over him last week This is one area where you can appreciate how the media's job is easier than the coaching staff's.

-QG

 

[towney]

How's the "show me the money" thing now working for ya Johnny. I bet ya the apposing defenders are going to be gunning for him every game.

 

[B-Deep]

He's not as good as Tebow, at least not based on yesterday. Tebow could run and had the size to get past linemen, Manziel got tossed like a rag doll. Tebow actually netted a couple draft picks in trade on the basis of some exciting wins and a playoff run and win.

Tebow had 0 ints, 1 passing TD and one rushing TD in hie debut

Manzeil dreams of being tebow

 

[msudaisy26]

If Manziel is lucky he will be Alex Smith 2.0.

 

[DocHolliday]

It looked rough but the Browns have to see what they have in him. The next 2 weeks are going to be entertaining for everyone but the Browns and their fans.

 

[B-Deep]

If Manziel is lucky he will be Alex Smith 2.0.

he'll be lucky not to be Ryan Leaf 2.0

 

[packersfan]

It looked rough but the Browns have to see what they have in him. The next 2 weeks are going to be entertaining for everyone but the Browns and their fans.

I picked him up in my Start-2 QB league and thankfully I'm still alive despite that. Wednesday's FAAB deadline can't get here fast enough so I can get this bum and his stench off my team.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Coach Mike Pettine said Johnny Manziel will start Week 16 against the Panthers.

It also sounded like Manziel will be the starting quarterback through Week 17. That comes as no surprise. It will give the coaching staff three games of tape on Manziel and allow him to get his feet wet before 2015. Johnny Football finished with about as horrific a stat line one could imagine in his debut, but Pettine placed much of the blame on the players around Manziel. He'll be a high-risk QB2 against Carolina, but one with plenty of upside. The 7-7 Browns are out of the playoff picture.


Source: ESPN Cleveland
Dec 15 - 9:21 AM

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Tough to see where Johnny Manziel improved from preseason

The Browns' run defense was as disappointing as Manziel. Cincinnati ran through and over the Browns' defense, totaling 244 yards. Nine teams since 1999 have run for more on the Browns. Only 29 teams have topped that mark since the Browns joined the NFL in 1950.

Fascinating, I think this means that the expansion-Browns have 10 of the 30 worst rushing defensive performances since 1950.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

How's the "show me the money" thing now working for ya Johnny. I bet ya the apposing defenders are going to be gunning for him every game.

Anyone see the play where the Bengals d-lineman got a 15 yard penalty for taunting for doing the money sign in Manziel's face? Wiped out a 3rd down incompletion or something like that...

 

[QuizGuy66]

How's the "show me the money" thing now working for ya Johnny. I bet ya the apposing defenders are going to be gunning for him every game.

Anyone see the play where the Bengals d-lineman got a 15 yard penalty for taunting for doing the money sign in Manziel's face? Wiped out a 3rd down incompletion or something like that...

Yeah that was Maualuga - it completely angered me as a Bengals fan because Rey was so stupid there (they will throw that 100 times out of 100 - okay maybe 99 out of 100 if the other one is a Steeler).

-QG

 

[CR69]

How's the "show me the money" thing now working for ya Johnny. I bet ya the apposing defenders are going to be gunning for him every game.

Anyone see the play where the Bengals d-lineman got a 15 yard penalty for taunting for doing the money sign in Manziel's face? Wiped out a 3rd down incompletion or something like that...

And he did it after dropping a pick. What a #####.

 

[QuizGuy66]

How's the "show me the money" thing now working for ya Johnny. I bet ya the apposing defenders are going to be gunning for him every game.

Anyone see the play where the Bengals d-lineman got a 15 yard penalty for taunting for doing the money sign in Manziel's face? Wiped out a 3rd down incompletion or something like that...

And he did it after dropping a pick. What a #####.

He didn't "Drop A Pick" - he swatted that ball down as a reaction to the throw coming at him.

Rey actually had a pretty good game and is having a pretty good season. I just hated that taunt. Luckily it was a game that couldn't cost us but a vet should know better.

-QG

 

[Faust]

LOOK: Johnny Football T-shirt placed on clearance rack

 

[Bronco Billy]

I've seen people here given timeouts for saying things a lot less ridiculous and insulting than invoking Elway and Montana when discussing Manziel.

 

[Faust]

Bengals defense was tired of hearing about 'Money Manziel'

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Where's that member's only thread?

 

[Godsbrother]

It looked rough but the Browns have to see what they have in him. The next 2 weeks are going to be entertaining for everyone but the Browns and their fans.

Disagree. You don't do that until you are out of the playoffs. The Browns would be right in the thick of it with a win yesterday. Playing Manziel made that an impossibility. I would be pissed if I were a Browns fan.

 

[amnesiac]

It looked rough but the Browns have to see what they have in him. The next 2 weeks are going to be entertaining for everyone but the Browns and their fans.

Disagree. You don't do that until you are out of the playoffs. The Browns would be right in the thick of it with a win yesterday. Playing Manziel made that an impossibility. I would be pissed if I were a Browns fan.

while i assumed it was going to be awful, Pettine was in a no win situation. i think they already knew they were out of it and gambled on Manziel somehow being a "gamer" and that he could give them a spark.

Hoyer was just done.

so i actually agreed with the decision to start Manziel.

 

[DLR]

It looked rough but the Browns have to see what they have in him. The next 2 weeks are going to be entertaining for everyone but the Browns and their fans.

Disagree. You don't do that until you are out of the playoffs. The Browns would be right in the thick of it with a win yesterday. Playing Manziel made that an impossibility. I would be pissed if I were a Browns fan.

I would be pissed off that we drafted him in the first place.

 

[mr roboto]

It looked rough but the Browns have to see what they have in him. The next 2 weeks are going to be entertaining for everyone but the Browns and their fans.

Disagree. You don't do that until you are out of the playoffs. The Browns would be right in the thick of it with a win yesterday. Playing Manziel made that an impossibility. I would be pissed if I were a Browns fan.

I would be pissed off that we drafted him in the first place.

So is Pettine I bet. This is a big #### you to the front office.

 

[Todem]

I think veterans on this team must have been extremely upset they made the change at QB. They got to this point with Hoyer leading them. I can't imagine that locker room after that 30-0 drubbing at home.

A great way for the HC to lose his team. I think the moment he announced Manziel as the starter he lost that locker room. The next two weeks will either confirm that or they turn it around and this over matched kid shows something. But he looks totally over matched and in way over his head. He does not pass the sniff test so far as being a legit NFL QB.

 

[Apple Jack]

How's the "show me the money" thing now working for ya Johnny. I bet ya the apposing defenders are going to be gunning for him every game.

Every announcer I heard address the game gave him a kick, as well. Was pretty funny. And warranted.

Almost sounds like Pettine is building a case so he can say there is nothing to work with and can move on before going into camp next year.

 

[Todem]

How's the "show me the money" thing now working for ya Johnny. I bet ya the apposing defenders are going to be gunning for him every game.

Every announcer I heard address the game gave him a kick, as well. Was pretty funny. And warranted.

Almost sounds like Pettine is building a case so he can say there is nothing to work with and can move on before going into camp next year.

Throw away a season to make a point?

I seriously doubt it. Your taking a huge risk at losing the respect of your players.

 

[Apple Jack]

How's the "show me the money" thing now working for ya Johnny. I bet ya the apposing defenders are going to be gunning for him every game.

Every announcer I heard address the game gave him a kick, as well. Was pretty funny. And warranted.

Almost sounds like Pettine is building a case so he can say there is nothing to work with and can move on before going into camp next year.

Throw away a season to make a point?

I seriously doubt it. Your taking a huge risk at losing the respect of your players.

We have no idea what went into the decision to start him, but committing going forward is something else entirely. You don't "see what you have" when you're fighting for a playoff spot.

 

[Todem]

Agreed. I am very curious what conversation took place that led to this decision. Ownership/GM pressure? That is the only thing I can think of. I was sure he would not sniff the field the way the team was playing...despite the bump in the road they recently hit. Hoyer had that team behind him.

Manziel does not.