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QB Daniel Jones, NYG (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Interseptopus
- Start date
That's really bad for retaining Barkley who will be free to negotiate.
I honestly feel like this let's the Giants FO off the hook (they dont want to invest that much in RB) and frees up space
Giants will save $12-$15M in not signing Barkley which offsets a good chunk of Jones $32m cap hit.
The Giants could still renegotiate Jones contract which would save even more cap space to sign a couple of FAs (i.e. LBer, C, or CB)
I honestly feel like this let's the Giants FO off the hook (they dont want to invest that much in RB) and frees up space
Giants will save $12-$15M in not signing Barkley which offsets a good chunk of Jones $32m cap hit.
The Giants could still renegotiate Jones contract which would save even more cap space to sign a couple of FAs (i.e. LBer, C, or CB)
The Frankman
Footballguy
For the love of God just let him walk; or non-exclusive/transition tag him (1 yr, $29,504,000). There's no appreciable way signing Jones and having Saquon walk makes the Giants a better team.
I don't think you understand ... they are planning to non-exclusive tag him but the number is $32,400 (not 29.5m) and if they tag him they likely lose Barkley.
Of cause they dont get better if Barkley walks ... but if they sign Tremaine Edmonds with Barkleys money and draft a RB ... they get much better
tribe
Footballguy
Exactly. I love Barkley. But if they let him go and grab a RB that produces 75% of Barkleys output at a quarter or his price that’s not the end of the world. Spread that $$ to other positions of need.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Jones + Mattison
Tyrod Taylor + Barkley
I’m not sure the team starting Tyrod Taylor would be better.
The thing is if you let Jones walk, why would they want to spend $12MM at RB? You should only pay a RB if your team can win.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
Mike Garafolo @MikeGarafolo
Possible good sign for the #Giants and Daniel Jones: Sources say Jones’ agents are traveling to Jersey today to meet with the #Giants in person after talking many times at the Scouting Combine. A little more than a day to go before the franchise-tag deadline. Still time.
Possible good sign for the #Giants and Daniel Jones: Sources say Jones’ agents are traveling to Jersey today to meet with the #Giants in person after talking many times at the Scouting Combine. A little more than a day to go before the franchise-tag deadline. Still time.
Terpman22
Footballguy
6 years/$300M coming!!
The Frankman
Footballguy
getting OT, but you want to keep the elite talents if possible. We saw Saquon carry a team in 2023 so Giants fans know what he can do. Can you realistically say Mattison can carry a team and be a top WR (if needed) the way Saquon has/75% of Saquon? I think that's very optimistic.
Bottom line, Saquon would be cheaper to keep with no "prove it" caveats to his game; we know he's an big-time player/talent where relative to his pay, he's easily a Top 4 back. Daniel Jones has never shown that ability, nor did the Giants seem inclined to put Jones in situations to carry the load. No matter how oyu slice it, Jones isn't a $40 million dollar QB and shoul n't be making anywhere near Mahomes money. Giants are bidding against themselves at this point and it's going to gut their team.
Bottom line, Saquon would be cheaper to keep with no "prove it" caveats to his game; we know he's an big-time player/talent where relative to his pay, he's easily a Top 4 back. Daniel Jones has never shown that ability, nor did the Giants seem inclined to put Jones in situations to carry the load. No matter how oyu slice it, Jones isn't a $40 million dollar QB and shoul n't be making anywhere near Mahomes money. Giants are bidding against themselves at this point and it's going to gut their team.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I am not a Giants fan, but the Jones and Barley situations seem a bit mind boggling to me.
Jones' PFF player grades have been 76, 71, 78, and 65. He's just not worth $45M. I don't care where the market is heading. He just hasn't moved the needle much at all. He ranks 25th among active QBs in career QB rating. I defended him in the past . . . no OL, no WR, dealt with a ton of players banged up, suspect coaching, etc.. But I don't think even with better resources Jones is the guy that would put them over the top. The Giants need to remember that there were reasons they didn't want to take hi 5th year option.
As far as Saquon goes, here were the regular season numbers from the most productive RB on the past ten SB winners.
2022 - Isiah Pacheco - 960 YFS, 5 TD ($724K cap hit)
2021 - Sony Michel - 973 YFS, 5 TD ($1.8M)
2020 - Ronald Jones - 1143 YFS, 8 TD ($1.1M)
2019 - Damien Williams - 711 YFS, 7 TD ($1.2M)
2018 - James White - 1176 YFS, 12 TD ($2M)
2017 - LeGarrette Blount - 824 YFS, 8 TD ($1.25M)
2016 - LeGarrette Blount - 1199 YFS, 18 TD ($1.5M)
2015 - Ronnie Hillman - 974 YFS, 7 TD ($770K)
2014 - Shane Vereen - 835 YFS, 8 TD ($847K)
2013 - Marshawn Lynch - 1573 YFS, 14 TD ($7M)
The only well compensated, big name RB out of those was Lynch . . . and that was 10 years ago. Everyone was was a decent option for low dollars that wasn't asked to get 300 carries and 50 receptions. Barkley's a good back, with 3 really good seasons and two banged up ones. But IMO, NYG would be better off investing those dollars elsewhere vs. breaking the bank to keep him.
The Giants still need OL and WR help. Overpaying for Jones and / or Barkley doesn't help either of those problems. Other teams have done the leg work for them . . . you don't need to spend crazy at RB to win, and RB are plug and play / disposable. I love Barkley for fantasy, but they are better off beefing up at other roster spots. Once that happens, they won't need a $10-12M RB.
Jones' PFF player grades have been 76, 71, 78, and 65. He's just not worth $45M. I don't care where the market is heading. He just hasn't moved the needle much at all. He ranks 25th among active QBs in career QB rating. I defended him in the past . . . no OL, no WR, dealt with a ton of players banged up, suspect coaching, etc.. But I don't think even with better resources Jones is the guy that would put them over the top. The Giants need to remember that there were reasons they didn't want to take hi 5th year option.
As far as Saquon goes, here were the regular season numbers from the most productive RB on the past ten SB winners.
2022 - Isiah Pacheco - 960 YFS, 5 TD ($724K cap hit)
2021 - Sony Michel - 973 YFS, 5 TD ($1.8M)
2020 - Ronald Jones - 1143 YFS, 8 TD ($1.1M)
2019 - Damien Williams - 711 YFS, 7 TD ($1.2M)
2018 - James White - 1176 YFS, 12 TD ($2M)
2017 - LeGarrette Blount - 824 YFS, 8 TD ($1.25M)
2016 - LeGarrette Blount - 1199 YFS, 18 TD ($1.5M)
2015 - Ronnie Hillman - 974 YFS, 7 TD ($770K)
2014 - Shane Vereen - 835 YFS, 8 TD ($847K)
2013 - Marshawn Lynch - 1573 YFS, 14 TD ($7M)
The only well compensated, big name RB out of those was Lynch . . . and that was 10 years ago. Everyone was was a decent option for low dollars that wasn't asked to get 300 carries and 50 receptions. Barkley's a good back, with 3 really good seasons and two banged up ones. But IMO, NYG would be better off investing those dollars elsewhere vs. breaking the bank to keep him.
The Giants still need OL and WR help. Overpaying for Jones and / or Barkley doesn't help either of those problems. Other teams have done the leg work for them . . . you don't need to spend crazy at RB to win, and RB are plug and play / disposable. I love Barkley for fantasy, but they are better off beefing up at other roster spots. Once that happens, they won't need a $10-12M RB.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I doubt this is the number where they end up. I’m not even sure any of these “leaks” are accurate.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I don't think Jones is worth the lower of the franchise tag numbers ($32.4M). If they do reach a deal, I don't see how the first two seasons wouldn't be at least guaranteed to what the franchise tag numbers would have been if they franchised him twice. It just would be really stupid on Jones' part to take less money than he would have been due. As you said, until we have resolution and actually numbers, it's hard just guesstimating.
Terpman22
Footballguy
The bolded seems good news for my Birds and 2/3 of the other divisional opponents sure seem hellbent on trying to buck the trend bolded. Keep drafting those RB's high, and also THEN paying them top $$$ guys!!!
As with Jones and his market value - timing is everything. The Giants don't have to pay him, they can non exclusive tag him and see what happens. They can tag him this year and only be in the same position next year, but with about 2-5 more young QB's signing deals, which most likely will put his 2024 franchise tag ~ $40m or so. So that is 32.5 or so this year +40 next year, for an average of 36-37. He's not dumb, he knows the leverage of the position he is in. Giants don't have a plan B.
The Frankman
Footballguy
my reaction was pretty much the same
ESPN's GET UP | Dan Orlovsky SHOCKED Daniel Jones could get a 4-year/160M contract from Giants
I just don't get how the first 3 years are just ignored and his 1st good year he threw for 15 TDs and 5 INTs while not asked to do any heavy lifting in the offense = $40+ million.
@Anarchy99 - The one thing I would say about that RB figure is none of those guys were elite RBs. Basically what McCaffrey got, Saquon shouldn't get too much lesser than that. I think $13 million is fair for a RB who right now is no worse than 3rd best in terms of all around talent. The "don't pay RBs" argument is mostly about years, not dollars. A 3 yr/$41 million dollar (3rd year could be an option year) might be enough to get a deal done with Saquon, but ideally Giants would tag him if it wasn't for Jones suddenly thinking he's the next Patrick Mahomes.
ESPN's GET UP | Dan Orlovsky SHOCKED Daniel Jones could get a 4-year/160M contract from Giants
I just don't get how the first 3 years are just ignored and his 1st good year he threw for 15 TDs and 5 INTs while not asked to do any heavy lifting in the offense = $40+ million.
@Anarchy99 - The one thing I would say about that RB figure is none of those guys were elite RBs. Basically what McCaffrey got, Saquon shouldn't get too much lesser than that. I think $13 million is fair for a RB who right now is no worse than 3rd best in terms of all around talent. The "don't pay RBs" argument is mostly about years, not dollars. A 3 yr/$41 million dollar (3rd year could be an option year) might be enough to get a deal done with Saquon, but ideally Giants would tag him if it wasn't for Jones suddenly thinking he's the next Patrick Mahomes.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
The Giants have a four-year deal in place with quarterback Daniel Jones, according to a source. (
@rydunleavy
first on deal)
@JordanRaanan
The Giants have a four-year deal in place with quarterback Daniel Jones, according to a source. (
@rydunleavy
first on deal)
Terpman22
Footballguy
4 for 160 LETS GOOOOO
Did they tag Saquan?
eighsse2
Footballguy
Yes.
The Frankman
Footballguy
The Frankman
Footballguy
absolute madness. The team basically bid against themselves and still they caved in.
Sweet Jones wrapped up and Saquan tagged at $10m
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
"Jones gets $82M guaranteed over the first two years, per @TomPelissero"
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I said it earlier in this thread. The unexpected success in 2022 is what’s going to get this regime fired. That contract is crazy. Imagine we had guys in here arguing he wouldn’t get $25MM a year.
The Frankman
Footballguy
So basically a 2 year/$82 million dollar deal with the chance for a clean break after 2025.
A bit better i guess
it's nuts. Jones basically put up 2016 Bills Tyrod Taylor numbers after being terrible his 1st 3 years and parlayed it into a massive contract.
A bit better i guess
it's nuts. Jones basically put up 2016 Bills Tyrod Taylor numbers after being terrible his 1st 3 years and parlayed it into a massive contract.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
An out after two years makes it more palatable.
Terpman22
Footballguy
When your rivals are celebrating stuff like this, should give you pause haha. Congrats!!
tribe
Footballguy
For the Giants you get a deal with a 2 year out, retain Barkley, and have some cap flexibility to make some moves. Jones gets his +$40MM.
Pressure stays on Schoen to make some moves the rest of this offseason to see if they can ring more out of Jones than they did last year.
Pressure stays on Schoen to make some moves the rest of this offseason to see if they can ring more out of Jones than they did last year.
Thats barely a top 10 QB salary (tied for 9th) ... and will be around 12-15 range soon
Terpman22
Footballguy
Paying top 10 money to a 15th at best QB....
The Frankman
Footballguy
It sounds great for this year, worrisome for next. 2024-2025 is the year Giants were supposed to do the Xavier McKinney/Dexter Lawrence extension. The common thought in the offseason is that if they hit the open market, they're gone. So basically Giants gonna have some cap hits in the future.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
That doest mean he isn't severely overpaid
Yenrub
Footballguy
Details per Ian Rapoport
4 years
160M
35M more in incentives
82M over 1st 2 years
94M virtually guaranteed at signing
19M 1st year cap hit
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1633229156971429888?s=20
4 years
160M
35M more in incentives
82M over 1st 2 years
94M virtually guaranteed at signing
19M 1st year cap hit
https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1633229156971429888?s=20
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Giants pay Jones 10X more and Saquon 40% more than last year and essentially did nothing to get better (so far). I get it, you want to try to keep your players, but IMO Jones off a rookie contract goes from an asset at a cheap cost to a potential liability at that cost. Put another way, his numbers last year were ok for a rookie contract cost, but won't be at an AAV $40M cost. 3200/15 is not worth his new contract. Maybe he improves and the team plays more like early in the year than late in the season, but anything short of that and this will look like a questionable move.
Da Franchise
Footballguy
I just can’t understand why teams keep shelling out this kind of dough for barely functional quarterbacks. I get why COACHES want to win 7+ games, it keeps them employed, but why do orgs keep green lighting this crap?
Just once I’d like to see a new regime come in and*actually* commit to a true multi-year rebuild. Trade older, expensive vets for whatever picks you can get. Sign cheap, upside free agents and churn through them as they fail. Trade back constantly for two drafts and amass an aresenal of picks. THEN make your splashes to fill holes in free agency once you have a solid, super young core on rookie deals. It’s not hard, just takes some big onions.
As a Skins fan I give the Jones resigning a standing ovation.
Just once I’d like to see a new regime come in and*actually* commit to a true multi-year rebuild. Trade older, expensive vets for whatever picks you can get. Sign cheap, upside free agents and churn through them as they fail. Trade back constantly for two drafts and amass an aresenal of picks. THEN make your splashes to fill holes in free agency once you have a solid, super young core on rookie deals. It’s not hard, just takes some big onions.
As a Skins fan I give the Jones resigning a standing ovation.
The Frankman
Footballguy
Basically at this contract he has to produce offensively now; no more hiding him on offense. He's got the step up and at least produce a 4200/30 passing TD season I'd think... it should be very interesting to see when/if Daboll takes the training wheels off next year.
Actually Jones was #6 in Total QBR this year which is the most accurate QB rating
Terpman22
Footballguy
Lost to the Eagles 3x. Very happy he is back!
This is the way it works in the NFL ... How do you think other teams do it???
They are going to extend Dexter and the first 2 years of his contract will be friendly ... Mckinney will probably be frachised next year assuming he has a good season ... Franchise tag for Safties is not crazy prob like RBs ... and the cap goes up every year
In 3 years Jones will either be underpaid or the Giants will be able to get out of the contract with minimal cap hit
Look what shappening to the Eagles this year. They were all in this year and had the best roster in the NFL by a wide margin but look at the list of Free Agents that they have now ...
Theyll figure something out ... They are not going to be what they were this season but they will be competive
| Player | Pos. | 2022 Team | 2023 Team | Type | Snaps | Age | Current APY ▾ | Guarantees |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Robert Quinn | EDGE | Eagles | UFA | 35.9% | 33 | $14,000,000 | $30,000,000 | |
| Fletcher Cox | IDL | Eagles | Void | 64.5% | 33 | $14,000,000 | $14,000,000 | |
| Javon Hargrave | IDL | Eagles | UFA | 64.4% | 30 | $13,000,000 | $26,000,000 | |
| James Bradberry | CB | Eagles | UFA | 97.5% | 30 | $7,250,000 | $7,250,000 | |
| Isaac Seumalo | LG | Eagles | UFA | 96.4% | 30 | $5,850,000 | $7,849,000 | |
| Andre Dillard | LT | Eagles | UFA | 3.1% | 28 | $3,092,903 | $12,371,612 | |
| Kyzir White | LB | Eagles | UFA | 76.3% | 27 | $3,000,000 | $3,000,000 | |
| Linval Joseph | IDL | Eagles | UFA | 17.1% | 35 | $2,187,500 | $250,000 | |
| Ndamukong Suh | IDL | Eagles | UFA | 15.9% | 36 | $2,187,500 | $250,000 | |
| T.J. Edwards | LB | Eagles | UFA | 94.1% | 27 | $2,150,000 | $2,150,000 | |
| Boston Scott | RB | Eagles | UFA | 14.4% | 28 | $1,750,000 | $1,100,000 | |
| Zach Pascal | WR | Eagles | UFA | 28.7% | 29 | $1,500,000 | $1,500,000 | |
| Miles Sanders | RB | Eagles | UFA | 57.1% | 26 | $1,340,058 | $3,151,995 | |
| Brett Kern | P | Eagles | UFA | 6.2% | 37 | $1,120,000 | $0 | |
| Chauncey Gardner-Johnson, Jr. | S | Eagles | UFA | 65.9% | 26 | $826,775 | $787,100 | |
| Tyree Jackson | TE | Eagles | ERFA | 2.9% | 26 | $755,100 | $25,200 | |
| Gardner Minshew | QB | Eagles | UFA | 12.8% | 27 | $677,904 | $191,616 | |
| Marcus Epps | S | Eagles | UFA | 99.1% | 27 | $672,189 | $168,756 |
Eagles were all in and had a virtually injury free season ... but they choked in the SB and now have quite a few free agents of their own to worry about and less cap then the Giants to get it done.
Eagles had their chance and missed it
Oh and Guess who is a Free Agent Next Year !!! Are they going to wait or will they extend him now??
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Da Franchise
Footballguy
Just three short years? That’s all?
Any comparison of the Giants and Eagles futures starts and ends with severely overpaid mediocre QB vs appropriately paid MVP level QB for a fraction more. Just in my neutral observer opinion, of course.
Any Comparison of Eagles and Giants QBs starts and ends with their supporting talent.
Jones on the Eagle wins the SB in 2022 ... Hurts on the Giants is standing on the unemployment line ... just like Bama
Da Franchise
Footballguy
Sorry, I mistook you for being serious. I won’t again.
Terpman22
Footballguy
LOL, but we still have the best GM in the league for roster construction. Who is your WR1? WR2? Tight end? I wish you good luck and can't wait to revisit this with the more excuses for the Eagles success and the Giants lack thereof.
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