Brandon Jacobs will be a stud this year (1 Viewer)

[Burning Sensation]

What coaches say during training camp and what they do once the season starts isn't always the same.

you are right about that, but you dont usually see coaches saying things like this if there isnt some truth to it.

 

[H.K.]

What coaches say during training camp and what they do once the season starts isn't always the same.

you are right about that, but you dont usually see coaches saying things like this if there isnt some truth to it.

Especially if it mirrors what they did when they won a Super Bowl.

 

[mdog1967]

Jacobs is a superior talent compared to Ward and Bradshaw and when he does play, it will be just like last year. He will produce.

AB I would Disagree that Jacobs is a superior talent, I think that player is still Bradshaw. However Jacobs is the superior specimen with athletics that are freakish for a Man of His size. Physics would probably dictate that 265lbs of 4.45 speed is going to bulldoze over linebackers far more effectively than 200lbs running at the same speed.If healthy Jacobs still represents the equivalent of building your own RB in Play-station Football. I am convinced that Jacobs body will betray him. I dont see how those knees of his are going to maintain that kind of playing weight when your zigging and zagging on the Football field. Great for lineman, I'm thinking not so great for a feature back.

 

[poopdawg]

What coaches say during training camp and what they do once the season starts isn't always the same.

you are right about that, but you dont usually see coaches saying things like this if there isnt some truth to it.

Especially if it mirrors what they did when they won a Super Bowl.

Dont you ever get tired of being flat out wrong??? Jacobs is/was/will be the primary ball carrier. You were proven wrong last year and yet you still hang on like a pathetic little poodle latching on to someones foot. You will be wrong again this year. Theres a reason you lost a sig bet and if you feel a little jiggy, why dont you do it again??

 

[-baller]

not only will he be a stud on the field, he'd totally kick ### in pros vs joes.

I'd like to see some joes try to take him down.

 

[H.K.]

What coaches say during training camp and what they do once the season starts isn't always the same.

you are right about that, but you dont usually see coaches saying things like this if there isnt some truth to it.

Especially if it mirrors what they did when they won a Super Bowl.

Dont you ever get tired of being flat out wrong??? Jacobs is/was/will be the primary ball carrier. You were proven wrong last year and yet you still hang on like a pathetic little poodle latching on to someones foot. You will be wrong again this year. Theres a reason you lost a sig bet and if you feel a little jiggy, why dont you do it again??

Bring it. Right now Jacobs ranks as RB 18 according to version H of the VBD for PPR leagues.That is statistically impossible and everybody knows it.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

What coaches say during training camp and what they do once the season starts isn't always the same.

you are right about that, but you dont usually see coaches saying things like this if there isnt some truth to it.

Especially if it mirrors what they did when they won a Super Bowl.

Dont you ever get tired of being flat out wrong??? Jacobs is/was/will be the primary ball carrier. You were proven wrong last year and yet you still hang on like a pathetic little poodle latching on to someones foot. You will be wrong again this year. Theres a reason you lost a sig bet and if you feel a little jiggy, why dont you do it again??

Bring it. Right now Jacobs ranks as RB 18 according to version H of the VBD for PPR leagues.That is statistically impossible and everybody knows it.

He finished 20th in FBG scoring among RBs last year and missed 5 games.

 

[CASS101]

Guys, guys, guys...

Jacobs is a very bad man and will get the first opportunity to start. He will do well........until he gets injured.

At that point, D.Ward will be there to save the day. Check out his numbers from last year. He is the most complete back on the roster. He is tough, compact and unlike Jacobs, has great hands. Ward is the value pick this year in deep leagues.

Bradshaw.....well, he's just a change of pace back.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Jacobs is a superior talent compared to Ward and Bradshaw and when he does play, it will be just like last year. He will produce.

Not sure where you get this from. Bradshaw outplayed Jacobs in every aspect of the game from week 17 though the Super Bowl.

No he didn't. Jacobs was GREAT at blocking and picking up the blitz (a weakness for Bradshaw although he has improved a lot in the area)

Jacobs was successful on short yardage (Bradshaw not used in that spot which helps his YPC)

Jacobs also hurts the opposing players. See Woodson getting run over on the first play in the GB game and see Woodson not go near a tackle the rest of the game. Items like this are huge and people just don't see it. You can also see the times Jacobs ran over Bruschi (I think it was Ted?)in the Super Bowl.

Bradshaw has game, but to ignore the impact of Jacobs is absolutely ignorant. if you are the Giants, you use both guys complementary to keep them fresh and you also use Ward at times. Droughns should not be used unless on special teams or injuries.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The man's a beast but unfortunately there's no way this guy can stay healthy. The only way to tackle 265 lbs is to hit 'em low, and Jacobs is just too long in the legs to avoid knee injuries. Obviously the Giants feel the same way, hence splitting the load three (3) ways...

This is a common misconception.Jacobs injuries were a knee that was caused from his own lineman getting pushed back into the side of his knee when he was planted (fluke) and then he hurt his hammy. the only other bruises Jacobs had were to the shoulders but he didn't miss any games for those (stingers).Everyone assumed he would get banged up as you mention, but the injuries were not from hits.I do think a player like him might get more stingers etc...but the fluke injuries he had were not because of his size last year.

 

[Liquid Tension]

What coaches say during training camp and what they do once the season starts isn't always the same.

you are right about that, but you dont usually see coaches saying things like this if there isnt some truth to it.

Especially if it mirrors what they did when they won a Super Bowl.

Dont you ever get tired of being flat out wrong??? Jacobs is/was/will be the primary ball carrier. You were proven wrong last year and yet you still hang on like a pathetic little poodle latching on to someones foot. You will be wrong again this year. Theres a reason you lost a sig bet and if you feel a little jiggy, why dont you do it again??

Bring it. Right now Jacobs ranks as RB 18 according to version H of the VBD for PPR leagues.That is statistically impossible and everybody knows it.

He finished 20th in FBG scoring among RBs last year and missed 5 games.

You are better off ignoring HK as logic is not his strong point.I assume that most comments here are all about fantasy value...If so, the only evidence people downgrading Jacobs have is that in the playoffs Bradshaw saw as many (or more) meaningful carries as Jacobs did. However, at the end of the day Jacobs will get the goal line and short yardage carries and even in the playoffs outscored Bradshaw and this is all that matters.

*Jacobs getting the short yardage carries means a lower YPC and more TD's. People are incorrectly looking at YPC as a reason Bradshaw outplayed Jacobs.

*Jacobs value to the Giants is huge based on his impact on wearing down and hurting the defense

*Jacobs will continue to outscore Bradshaw which will lead to more value fantasy wise

*Health is a key for Jacobs, but his injuries last year were not something you would expect to be repeated and his point value will keep him in the top 20 and possibly much higher if he stays healthy.

*The Giants are smart enough to keep the guys fresh so top end value will be limited, but Jacobs should be a solid #2 when he plays.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

What coaches say during training camp and what they do once the season starts isn't always the same.

you are right about that, but you dont usually see coaches saying things like this if there isnt some truth to it.

Especially if it mirrors what they did when they won a Super Bowl.

Dont you ever get tired of being flat out wrong??? Jacobs is/was/will be the primary ball carrier. You were proven wrong last year and yet you still hang on like a pathetic little poodle latching on to someones foot. You will be wrong again this year. Theres a reason you lost a sig bet and if you feel a little jiggy, why dont you do it again??

Bring it. Right now Jacobs ranks as RB 18 according to version H of the VBD for PPR leagues.That is statistically impossible and everybody knows it.

He finished 20th in FBG scoring among RBs last year and missed 5 games.

You are better off ignoring HK as logic is not his strong point.

Actually, I want to see what he has to say. There could be a point that I'm not seeing.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Jacobs is a superior talent compared to Ward and Bradshaw and when he does play, it will be just like last year. He will produce.

Not sure where you get this from. Bradshaw outplayed Jacobs in every aspect of the game from week 17 though the Super Bowl.

No he didn't. Jacobs was GREAT at blocking and picking up the blitz (a weakness for Bradshaw although he has improved a lot in the area)

Jacobs was successful on short yardage (Bradshaw not used in that spot which helps his YPC)

Jacobs also hurts the opposing players. See Woodson getting run over on the first play in the GB game and see Woodson not go near a tackle the rest of the game. Items like this are huge and people just don't see it. You can also see the times Jacobs ran over Bruschi (I think it was Ted?)in the Super Bowl.

Bradshaw has game, but to ignore the impact of Jacobs is absolutely ignorant. if you are the Giants, you use both guys complementary to keep them fresh and you also use Ward at times. Droughns should not be used unless on special teams or injuries.

Here is every short yardage carry(3 yards or less) the Giants had during the playoffs:2-1-TB 37 (6:23) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to TB 38 for -1 yards (23-J.Phillips).

2-1-TB 8 (4:11) 27-B.Jacobs left tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN

2-3-TB 23 (14:07) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to TB 19 for 4 yards (94-G.Spires).

2-3-NYG 40 (2:30) 44-A.Bradshaw left tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (90-G.Adams, 23-J.Phillips).

3-3-NYG 40 (2:25) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (95-C.Hovan, 93-K.Carter).

2-2-DAL 42 (6:09) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to DAL 38 for 4 yards (56-B.James; 96-M.Spears).

3-1-NYG 12 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs left end to NYG 12 for no gain (42-A.Henry).

3-1-GB 2 (8:50) 27-B.Jacobs left guard to GB 1 for 1 yard. FUMBLES, recovered by NYG-89-K.Boss at GB 1.

1-1-GB 1 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

2-2-GB 4 (2:19) 44-A.Bradshaw left guard for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

3-1-GB 39 (1:17) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to GB 31 for 8 yards (36-N.Collins, 99-C.Williams).

3-1-NE 37 (9:01) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NE 29 for 8 yards (94-T.Warren, 75-V.Wilfork).

4-1-NYG 37 (1:34) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to NYG 39 for 2 yards (75-V.Wilfork, 93-R.Seymour).

That looks like 7 short yardage carries for Jacobs, and 6 for Bradshaw.

 

[H.K.]

Actually, I want to see what he has to say. There could be a point that I'm not seeing.

Hey AB, Just look at the distribution of touches for the answer:In the Regular Season Jacobs had ~64% of all NYG RB touches (over 66% if Week One is discounted because he couldn't last a quarter without getting hurt, a trend that followed all year, but I digress...)Then in the playoffs Jacobs only received ~55% of NYG RB touches despite Ward being unavailable. Lest we not forget, the Giants won the Super Bowl and played their best football of the season by utilizing Bradshaw a lot during this time period.Buts let's take a closer look at Jacobs regular season numbers, he played 11 regular season games and we'll throw out Week One in an effort to be kind to him: For six games last season, Jacobs had over an overwhelming 80% of all NYG RB touches (weeks 8-11, & 14, 15, & 17)What was special about those six weeks? Ward did not play in any of those games and Bradshaw only had two touches in that span, then he broke out in in Week 16 vs. Buf and missed week 17. Basically, all they had was Jacobs and Droughns those games..So what happened when the Giants had a healthy combo of Jacobs, Ward, Droughns & Bradshaw? The answer is that in Weeks 5, 6, 7 & 16 Jacobs received ~51% of RB touches. That's a thirty percent reduction in workload when the Giants have healthy options.Just as the coaching staff has declared this pre-season and last year's regular season and playoffs proved, the Giants are a full fledged RBBC team unless injury forces their hand to deviate.However, the most common misconception about Jacobs is that he'll get the goal line carries. A lot has changed since 2006. Again, as last year showed in the regular season and the playoffs, he was not the chosen one at the stripe. In fact, the Giants were extremely fortunate that Jacobs didn't lose the ball at the goal line versus Green Bay because that should have cost them the Super Bowl.Bottom line, Jacobs won't get the touches needed to sniff RB 18. He also couldn't catch a cold last season by dropping over 20% of the passes thrown his way, so that kills him even more in PPR.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Actually, I want to see what he has to say. There could be a point that I'm not seeing.

Hey AB, Just look at the distribution of touches for the answer:In the Regular Season Jacobs had ~64% of all NYG RB touches (over 66% if Week One is discounted because he couldn't last a quarter without getting hurt, a trend that followed all year, but I digress...)Then in the playoffs Jacobs only received ~55% of NYG RB touches despite Ward being unavailable. Lest we not forget, the Giants won the Super Bowl and played their best football of the season by utilizing Bradshaw a lot during this time period.Buts let's take a closer look at Jacobs regular season numbers, he played 11 regular season games and we'll throw out Week One in an effort to be kind to him: For six games last season, Jacobs had over an overwhelming 80% of all NYG RB touches (weeks 8-11, & 14, 15, & 17)What was special about those six weeks? Ward did not play in any of those games and Bradshaw only had two touches in that span, then he broke out in in Week 16 vs. Buf and missed week 17. Basically, all they had was Jacobs and Droughns those games..So what happened when the Giants had a healthy combo of Jacobs, Ward, Droughns & Bradshaw? The answer is that in Weeks 5, 6, 7 & 16 Jacobs received ~51% of RB touches. That's a thirty percent reduction in workload when the Giants have healthy options.Just as the coaching staff has declared this pre-season and last year's regular season and playoffs proved, the Giants are a full fledged RBBC team unless injury forces their hand to deviate.However, the most common misconception about Jacobs is that he'll get the goal line carries. A lot has changed since 2006. Again, as last year showed in the regular season and the playoffs, he was not the chosen one at the stripe. In fact, the Giants were extremely fortunate that Jacobs didn't lose the ball at the goal line versus Green Bay because that should have cost them the Super Bowl.Bottom line, Jacobs won't get the touches needed to sniff RB 18. He also couldn't catch a cold last season by dropping over 20% of the passes thrown his way, so that kills him even more in PPR.

Despite the fact that HK's judgement is often clouded by his bias, this is

 

[gianmarco]

Jacobs is a superior talent compared to Ward and Bradshaw and when he does play, it will be just like last year. He will produce.

Not sure where you get this from. Bradshaw outplayed Jacobs in every aspect of the game from week 17 though the Super Bowl.

No he didn't. Jacobs was GREAT at blocking and picking up the blitz (a weakness for Bradshaw although he has improved a lot in the area)

Jacobs was successful on short yardage (Bradshaw not used in that spot which helps his YPC)

Jacobs also hurts the opposing players. See Woodson getting run over on the first play in the GB game and see Woodson not go near a tackle the rest of the game. Items like this are huge and people just don't see it. You can also see the times Jacobs ran over Bruschi (I think it was Ted?)in the Super Bowl.

Bradshaw has game, but to ignore the impact of Jacobs is absolutely ignorant. if you are the Giants, you use both guys complementary to keep them fresh and you also use Ward at times. Droughns should not be used unless on special teams or injuries.

Here is every short yardage carry(3 yards or less) the Giants had during the playoffs:2-1-TB 37 (6:23) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to TB 38 for -1 yards (23-J.Phillips).

2-1-TB 8 (4:11) 27-B.Jacobs left tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN

2-3-TB 23 (14:07) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to TB 19 for 4 yards (94-G.Spires).

2-3-NYG 40 (2:30) 44-A.Bradshaw left tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (90-G.Adams, 23-J.Phillips).

3-3-NYG 40 (2:25) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (95-C.Hovan, 93-K.Carter).

2-2-DAL 42 (6:09) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to DAL 38 for 4 yards (56-B.James; 96-M.Spears).

3-1-NYG 12 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs left end to NYG 12 for no gain (42-A.Henry).

3-1-GB 2 (8:50) 27-B.Jacobs left guard to GB 1 for 1 yard. FUMBLES, recovered by NYG-89-K.Boss at GB 1.

1-1-GB 1 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

2-2-GB 4 (2:19) 44-A.Bradshaw left guard for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

3-1-GB 39 (1:17) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to GB 31 for 8 yards (36-N.Collins, 99-C.Williams).

3-1-NE 37 (9:01) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NE 29 for 8 yards (94-T.Warren, 75-V.Wilfork).

4-1-NYG 37 (1:34) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to NYG 39 for 2 yards (75-V.Wilfork, 93-R.Seymour).

That looks like 7 short yardage carries for Jacobs, and 6 for Bradshaw.

Interesting. Did you also happen to notice the following?Jacobs conversion rate on above plays: 6 of 7 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 2 TDs) -- 86% conversion rate

Bradshaw's conversion rate on above plays: 3 of 6 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 1 TD) -- 50% conversation rate

In those 6 plays above for Bradshaw, he was stopped for no gain or lost yardage on half of those. Small sample size, but who seemed to be more productive when it counted? I can't answer why the NYG had it as evenly split and can't say for sure whether or not it will continue like this, but overall Jacobs has proven to be quite effective in these situations and it carried into the playoffs when it counted most.

 

[Burning Sensation]

Jacobs is a superior talent compared to Ward and Bradshaw and when he does play, it will be just like last year. He will produce.

Not sure where you get this from. Bradshaw outplayed Jacobs in every aspect of the game from week 17 though the Super Bowl.

No he didn't. Jacobs was GREAT at blocking and picking up the blitz (a weakness for Bradshaw although he has improved a lot in the area)

Jacobs was successful on short yardage (Bradshaw not used in that spot which helps his YPC)

Jacobs also hurts the opposing players. See Woodson getting run over on the first play in the GB game and see Woodson not go near a tackle the rest of the game. Items like this are huge and people just don't see it. You can also see the times Jacobs ran over Bruschi (I think it was Ted?)in the Super Bowl.

Bradshaw has game, but to ignore the impact of Jacobs is absolutely ignorant. if you are the Giants, you use both guys complementary to keep them fresh and you also use Ward at times. Droughns should not be used unless on special teams or injuries.

Here is every short yardage carry(3 yards or less) the Giants had during the playoffs:2-1-TB 37 (6:23) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to TB 38 for -1 yards (23-J.Phillips).

2-1-TB 8 (4:11) 27-B.Jacobs left tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN

2-3-TB 23 (14:07) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to TB 19 for 4 yards (94-G.Spires).

2-3-NYG 40 (2:30) 44-A.Bradshaw left tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (90-G.Adams, 23-J.Phillips).

3-3-NYG 40 (2:25) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (95-C.Hovan, 93-K.Carter).

2-2-DAL 42 (6:09) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to DAL 38 for 4 yards (56-B.James; 96-M.Spears).

3-1-NYG 12 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs left end to NYG 12 for no gain (42-A.Henry).

3-1-GB 2 (8:50) 27-B.Jacobs left guard to GB 1 for 1 yard. FUMBLES, recovered by NYG-89-K.Boss at GB 1.

1-1-GB 1 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

2-2-GB 4 (2:19) 44-A.Bradshaw left guard for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

3-1-GB 39 (1:17) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to GB 31 for 8 yards (36-N.Collins, 99-C.Williams).

3-1-NE 37 (9:01) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NE 29 for 8 yards (94-T.Warren, 75-V.Wilfork).

4-1-NYG 37 (1:34) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to NYG 39 for 2 yards (75-V.Wilfork, 93-R.Seymour).

That looks like 7 short yardage carries for Jacobs, and 6 for Bradshaw.

Interesting. Did you also happen to notice the following?Jacobs conversion rate on above plays: 6 of 7 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 2 TDs) -- 86% conversion rate

Bradshaw's conversion rate on above plays: 3 of 6 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 1 TD) -- 50% conversation rate

In those 6 plays above for Bradshaw, he was stopped for no gain or lost yardage on half of those. Small sample size, but who seemed to be more productive when it counted? I can't answer why the NYG had it as evenly split and can't say for sure whether or not it will continue like this, but overall Jacobs has proven to be quite effective in these situations and it carried into the playoffs when it counted most.

Liquid tension stated that Bradshaw was not used in short yardage situations, i was just pointing out that it was not true. With such a small sample size, i think it is tough to use the conversion rate as a measure of who is the better short yardage back. Also, Jacobs was 5 of 7, i dont think you can count a fumble that Boss fell on for a first down.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Actually, I want to see what he has to say. There could be a point that I'm not seeing.

Hey AB, Just look at the distribution of touches for the answer:

In the Regular Season Jacobs had ~64% of all NYG RB touches (over 66% if Week One is discounted because he couldn't last a quarter without getting hurt, a trend that followed all year, but I digress...)

Then in the playoffs Jacobs only received ~55% of NYG RB touches despite Ward being unavailable. Lest we not forget, the Giants won the Super Bowl and played their best football of the season by utilizing Bradshaw a lot during this time period.

Buts let's take a closer look at Jacobs regular season numbers, he played 11 regular season games and we'll throw out Week One in an effort to be kind to him:

For six games last season, Jacobs had over an overwhelming 80% of all NYG RB touches (weeks 8-11, & 14, 15, & 17)

What was special about those six weeks? Ward did not play in any of those games and Bradshaw only had two touches in that span, then he broke out in in Week 16 vs. Buf and missed week 17. Basically, all they had was Jacobs and Droughns those games..

So what happened when the Giants had a healthy combo of Jacobs, Ward, Droughns & Bradshaw? The answer is that in Weeks 5, 6, 7 & 16 Jacobs received ~51% of RB touches. That's a thirty percent reduction in workload when the Giants have healthy options.

Just as the coaching staff has declared this pre-season and last year's regular season and playoffs proved, the Giants are a full fledged RBBC team unless injury forces their hand to deviate.

However, the most common misconception about Jacobs is that he'll get the goal line carries. A lot has changed since 2006. Again, as last year showed in the regular season and the playoffs, he was not the chosen one at the stripe. In fact, the Giants were extremely fortunate that Jacobs didn't lose the ball at the goal line versus Green Bay because that should have cost them the Super Bowl.

Bottom line, Jacobs won't get the touches needed to sniff RB 18. He also couldn't catch a cold last season by dropping over 20% of the passes thrown his way, so that kills him even more in PPR.

The weeks 5, 6, 7, and 16 (bolded part) where Jacobs had 51% of RB touches, he had 75/438/4. Over the course of the year, He did not have a clunker of a fantasy week outside of the previously mentioned week 1, where he was hurt during the game. He is money in short yardage and at the goal line. Despite the coachspeak and the playoff run, I still think he sees 60-65% of RB touches and almost all goal line work. I do not believe they will be a full fledged RBBC team. Even if they were, he still puts up big numbers in the games with limited touches. I also don't believe for a minute that anyone other than Jacobs will get short yardage work most of the time. And as much as I don't want this to turn into a Super Bowl thread, I think they would have won the Super Bowl regardless of how they distributed the RB touches. They won mainly because of defense and not turning the ball over.

The one thing I love about these boards is there can be many different opinions and analysis of the facts. The decisions we make about the various players are what win and lose leagues. This player is no different.

I appreciate the insightful and informative posts and you make some good points, but I just don't agree with all of them.

 

[H.K.]

Despite the coachspeak and the playoff run, I still think he sees 60-65% of RB touches and almost all goal line work. I do not believe they will be a full fledged RBBC team.

Here is the challenge with that claim: The Giants' actions and words are in direct opposition to your beliefs. You asked me to support my position, which I did with indisputable facts. I would not have my position if the facts did not justify it. Do you have anything more substantial than opinion which can justify your thought process?

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Despite the coachspeak and the playoff run, I still think he sees 60-65% of RB touches and almost all goal line work. I do not believe they will be a full fledged RBBC team.

Here is the challenge with that claim: The Giants' actions and words are in direct opposition to your beliefs. You asked me to support my position, which I did with indisputable facts. I would not have my position if the facts did not justify it. Do you have anything more substantial than opinion which can justify your thought process?

With all due respect to coaches, they are not always forthright when they say things like that. Their "actions and words" now may or may not be what happens. Coach speak is very common this time of year. Basically, I'll believe it when I see it. I also supported my position with facts. Jacobs performed even in weeks when he had barely half the workload. He did not have a bad fantasy week all year after the week one injury game. He averaged 5 YPC. He had over 1000 yards on only 200 carries. 200 carries is not that many. He was a top fantasy performer even when all four Giant RBs played. He can be a top 20 RB even with 15-18 touches per game. He is far better in short yardage than the other RBs. He is a virtual lock for double digit TDs.

Simply put, I think Jacobs is clearly the best RB they have. Talent always wins out eventually.

 

[Bermuda_Chub]

Haven't you all figured it out already? H.K. is Derrick Ward. Once upon a time, Drew Bledsoe showed similar objectivity on tonyhomo.com.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

What a mess. Avoid this train wreck (NY Giants running backs) like the plague and be glad you did.

 

[kupcho1]

What a mess. Avoid this train wreck (NY Giants running backs) like the plague and be glad you did.

:sigh:Unless you're in a 4 team league, you'll have to wade into situations like these. That's why its worth talking about. Not everyone is going to have a team of clear cut starters (and backups ) across the board.

 

[Tanner9919]

There I said it. I dont know if its a gut feeling. It might be the very good OLine. The "new" running the ball down your throats mentality of the Giants. The fact that Shockey is gone and a better blocking TE is in place. The way Jacobs ran the ball in the 2nd half last year was like a man possessed. Everyone's worried about Ward & Bradshaw stealing a ton of carries but Im not too worried. The amount of carries this team will get will be high enough for Jacobs to get about 15 carries a game. This will also keep him fresher than last year. I wouldnt be suprised if hes a big part of the passing game either. They are going to set up a lot of screens for him. Also, Droughns left so Jacobs pretty much has to be the goalline back this year.I know the guy gets dinged up a bit but Im gonna say this guy has a possibilty to put up top 5 #s and Id say hes a lock for top 10. I pray he falls to me in the 3rd round.

dude, if you think Boss is a better blocking TE than Shockey, you're not paying attention..Shockey is/was the complete product, i.e., blocks well, runs crisp routes, decent hands..Boss , from what little we've seen of him, has good hands and route running ability, but he can't block his own shadow...in that regard, Shockey will be sorely missed..I know Jacobs looked good the other night, but remember, it was:1. Against the Detroit Lions pathetic run defense2. the first pre-season game for each team, both using watered down playbooks..don't forget, NFL history doesn't bode well for 260+ lb RB's...and , Jacobs appeared to get hurt seemingly on every carry last season..always wincing and rolling around in pain after every tackle..he'll never finish a full season as a starting RB, he's going to take some big hits on those legs..big RB's don't last long in the NFL...he'll be great until he gets hurt

 

[Tanner9919]

There I said it. I dont know if its a gut feeling. It might be the very good OLine. The "new" running the ball down your throats mentality of the Giants. The fact that Shockey is gone and a better blocking TE is in place. The way Jacobs ran the ball in the 2nd half last year was like a man possessed. Everyone's worried about Ward & Bradshaw stealing a ton of carries but Im not too worried. The amount of carries this team will get will be high enough for Jacobs to get about 15 carries a game. This will also keep him fresher than last year. I wouldnt be suprised if hes a big part of the passing game either. They are going to set up a lot of screens for him. Also, Droughns left so Jacobs pretty much has to be the goalline back this year.I know the guy gets dinged up a bit but Im gonna say this guy has a possibilty to put up top 5 #s and Id say hes a lock for top 10. I pray he falls to me in the 3rd round.

dude, if you think Boss is a better blocking TE than Shockey, you're not paying attention..Shockey is/was the complete product, i.e., blocks well, runs crisp routes, decent hands..Boss , from what little we've seen of him, has good hands and route running ability, but he can't block his own shadow...in that regard, Shockey will be sorely missed..I know Jacobs looked good the other night, but remember, it was:1. Against the Detroit Lions pathetic run defense2. the first pre-season game for each team, both using watered down playbooks..don't forget, NFL history doesn't bode well for 260+ lb RB's...and , Jacobs appeared to get hurt seemingly on every carry last season..always wincing and rolling around in pain after every tackle..he'll never finish a full season as a starting RB, he's going to take some big hits on those legs..big RB's don't last long in the NFL...he'll be great until he gets hurt, which could be as early as week 1..you simply never know when he will go down. I'm avoiding him,altogether..

 

[JTM]

The man's a beast but unfortunately there's no way this guy can stay healthy. The only way to tackle 265 lbs is to hit 'em low, and Jacobs is just too long in the legs to avoid knee injuries. Obviously the Giants feel the same way, hence splitting the load three (3) ways...

This is a common misconception.Jacobs injuries were a knee that was caused from his own lineman getting pushed back into the side of his knee when he was planted (fluke) and then he hurt his hammy. the only other bruises Jacobs had were to the shoulders but he didn't miss any games for those (stingers).Everyone assumed he would get banged up as you mention, but the injuries were not from hits.I do think a player like him might get more stingers etc...but the fluke injuries he had were not because of his size last year.

Fluke? Aren't 90% of NFL injuries somewhat of a fluke? Injuries happen when chance and opportunity collide, which is on every single down in the NFL.For Jacobs, 'opportunity' is toting the rock 200+ times thru thousands of pounds of flying flesh and plastic while running high. 'Chance' will come in the form of some sneaky little DB hitting him in the only place he can to bring him down, which is his legs.I wasn't really referring to last year so much as years moving forward. Remember Greg Jones in JAX? How about AD in MIN? At some point he'll be rambling thru a crowd and take one from the side from some sneaky little DB, or get stood up, etc. He just doesn't run with his shoulders low enough to avoid the contact to his legs.He's going to get hurt, period, and that's why he's not even on my draft board. The only fluke about the injuries to his knees last year was that they weren't more severe...

 

[Liquid Tension]

Actually, I want to see what he has to say. There could be a point that I'm not seeing.

Hey AB, Just look at the distribution of touches for the answer:In the Regular Season Jacobs had ~64% of all NYG RB touches (over 66% if Week One is discounted because he couldn't last a quarter without getting hurt, a trend that followed all year, but I digress...)Then in the playoffs Jacobs only received ~55% of NYG RB touches despite Ward being unavailable. Lest we not forget, the Giants won the Super Bowl and played their best football of the season by utilizing Bradshaw a lot during this time period.Buts let's take a closer look at Jacobs regular season numbers, he played 11 regular season games and we'll throw out Week One in an effort to be kind to him: For six games last season, Jacobs had over an overwhelming 80% of all NYG RB touches (weeks 8-11, & 14, 15, & 17)What was special about those six weeks? Ward did not play in any of those games and Bradshaw only had two touches in that span, then he broke out in in Week 16 vs. Buf and missed week 17. Basically, all they had was Jacobs and Droughns those games..So what happened when the Giants had a healthy combo of Jacobs, Ward, Droughns & Bradshaw? The answer is that in Weeks 5, 6, 7 & 16 Jacobs received ~51% of RB touches. That's a thirty percent reduction in workload when the Giants have healthy options.Just as the coaching staff has declared this pre-season and last year's regular season and playoffs proved, the Giants are a full fledged RBBC team unless injury forces their hand to deviate.However, the most common misconception about Jacobs is that he'll get the goal line carries. A lot has changed since 2006. Again, as last year showed in the regular season and the playoffs, he was not the chosen one at the stripe. In fact, the Giants were extremely fortunate that Jacobs didn't lose the ball at the goal line versus Green Bay because that should have cost them the Super Bowl.Bottom line, Jacobs won't get the touches needed to sniff RB 18. He also couldn't catch a cold last season by dropping over 20% of the passes thrown his way, so that kills him even more in PPR.

Despite the fact that HK's judgement is often clouded by his bias, this is

HK has been extremely wrong about Jacobs from preseason last year on. He argued and argued and argued and was factually wrong on EVERY one of his predictions about Jacobs. I will not rehash a thread that was way too long but HK was owned the entire time and what was really frustrating was that he never once admitted it, he simply showed other stats to try and prove his point...That is terrible posting if you ask me as he was much more concerned with being right than getting into a meaningful discussion and learn something.As for the above, I do see the Giants as a RBBC, but I still see Jacobs getting the majority of points (which is all that matters). Droughns is not part of the mix, but barring injuries, I see the Giants being smart and keeping everyone fresh. Bradshaw and Jacobs will see probably around 40-40-20 with ward being the 20. I see the majority of TD's going to Jacobs though.The hardest thing for the Giants is that Jacobs blows Bradshaw away at picking up the blitz, yet Bradshaw is a much better receiver. That being said, Jacobs has much better hands than people think as most of his drops were bad passes that he could have had, but were not clear drops. In fact, Jacobs made the toughest catches of any Giant RB last season.Jacobs is faster than Bradhsaw and has much more power. Bradshaw is quicker than Jacobs (their 40 times were almost the same though) and does have good leg drive for a guy his size. This is great for the Giants, but not great for fantasy purposes. Ward is kind of in between the two and is kind of a Graham type runner. Ward does not have great hands out of the backfield.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Jacobs is a superior talent compared to Ward and Bradshaw and when he does play, it will be just like last year. He will produce.

Not sure where you get this from. Bradshaw outplayed Jacobs in every aspect of the game from week 17 though the Super Bowl.

No he didn't. Jacobs was GREAT at blocking and picking up the blitz (a weakness for Bradshaw although he has improved a lot in the area)

Jacobs was successful on short yardage (Bradshaw not used in that spot which helps his YPC)

Jacobs also hurts the opposing players. See Woodson getting run over on the first play in the GB game and see Woodson not go near a tackle the rest of the game. Items like this are huge and people just don't see it. You can also see the times Jacobs ran over Bruschi (I think it was Ted?)in the Super Bowl.

Bradshaw has game, but to ignore the impact of Jacobs is absolutely ignorant. if you are the Giants, you use both guys complementary to keep them fresh and you also use Ward at times. Droughns should not be used unless on special teams or injuries.

Here is every short yardage carry(3 yards or less) the Giants had during the playoffs:2-1-TB 37 (6:23) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to TB 38 for -1 yards (23-J.Phillips).

2-1-TB 8 (4:11) 27-B.Jacobs left tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN

2-3-TB 23 (14:07) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to TB 19 for 4 yards (94-G.Spires).

2-3-NYG 40 (2:30) 44-A.Bradshaw left tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (90-G.Adams, 23-J.Phillips).

3-3-NYG 40 (2:25) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (95-C.Hovan, 93-K.Carter).

2-2-DAL 42 (6:09) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to DAL 38 for 4 yards (56-B.James; 96-M.Spears).

3-1-NYG 12 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs left end to NYG 12 for no gain (42-A.Henry).

3-1-GB 2 (8:50) 27-B.Jacobs left guard to GB 1 for 1 yard. FUMBLES, recovered by NYG-89-K.Boss at GB 1.

1-1-GB 1 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

2-2-GB 4 (2:19) 44-A.Bradshaw left guard for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

3-1-GB 39 (1:17) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to GB 31 for 8 yards (36-N.Collins, 99-C.Williams).

3-1-NE 37 (9:01) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NE 29 for 8 yards (94-T.Warren, 75-V.Wilfork).

4-1-NYG 37 (1:34) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to NYG 39 for 2 yards (75-V.Wilfork, 93-R.Seymour).

That looks like 7 short yardage carries for Jacobs, and 6 for Bradshaw.

Interesting. Did you also happen to notice the following?Jacobs conversion rate on above plays: 6 of 7 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 2 TDs) -- 86% conversion rate

Bradshaw's conversion rate on above plays: 3 of 6 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 1 TD) -- 50% conversation rate

In those 6 plays above for Bradshaw, he was stopped for no gain or lost yardage on half of those. Small sample size, but who seemed to be more productive when it counted? I can't answer why the NYG had it as evenly split and can't say for sure whether or not it will continue like this, but overall Jacobs has proven to be quite effective in these situations and it carried into the playoffs when it counted most.

Liquid tension stated that Bradshaw was not used in short yardage situations, i was just pointing out that it was not true. With such a small sample size, i think it is tough to use the conversion rate as a measure of who is the better short yardage back. Also, Jacobs was 5 of 7, i dont think you can count a fumble that Boss fell on for a first down.

It wasn't that Bradshaw was never used, it is that he was not used when the Giants absolutely needed a 1st down. They would keep Bradshaw in on occasions, but less so when it was 3rd and 2 in a must situation. I do think the Giants had a little more faith in Bradshaw to NOT fumble so when they were in certain circumstances Bradshaw would stay in (ironically he fumbled and somehow recovered it). 4th and 1 with the SB on the line and you saw Jacobs get the call; that is more the norm.There is NO question that Jacobs is the guy the Giants have the most faith in to convert at a higher percentage, but it is also clear the Giants will keep their backs as fresh as possible so that they are all as effective as possible without being worn down.

 

[Biabreakable]

Despite the coachspeak and the playoff run, I still think he sees 60-65% of RB touches and almost all goal line work. I do not believe they will be a full fledged RBBC team.

Here is the challenge with that claim: The Giants' actions and words are in direct opposition to your beliefs. You asked me to support my position, which I did with indisputable facts. I would not have my position if the facts did not justify it. Do you have anything more substantial than opinion which can justify your thought process?

With all due respect to coaches, they are not always forthright when they say things like that. Their "actions and words" now may or may not be what happens. Coach speak is very common this time of year. Basically, I'll believe it when I see it.

Did you watch the Giants in the playoffs?Brandon Jacobs 62 carries 197 yards 3.2 ypc 3 TD

Ahmad Bradshaw 48 carries 208 yards 4.3 ypc 1 TD

What more evidence do you need to realize that the Giants are employing a RBBC? These were the games that mattered most against the strongest compitition the Giants faced. This isn't coaches blowing smoke and tinkering with things in the preseason when games don't matter.

The Giants were using Bradshaw to move the chains because Jacobs kept getting stuffed. You need at a minimum 3.4 ypc to get a 1st down on 3 downs. Jacobs was not getting this done. Bradshaw was.

Simply put, I think Jacobs is clearly the best RB they have. Talent always wins out eventually.

Did you see the play where Bradshaw trucked a DE about 5 yards on a key 1st down conversion? Bradshaw has oodles of talent and is a more complete RB than Jacobs is imo. I think Jacobs is a really good player also, but I see Jacobs as more of a role player. Bradshaw is a complete RB.Talent and skill will win out eventually. So why didn't the Giants give Jacobs a new contract during the offseason? This is one of the things I really like about Jacobs this year. He wants to get paid. It is time for him to put up or shut up and play through those injuries.

Jacobs said show me the money. The Giants said show me the healthy. Show me the hands. Show me you deserve to get paid starter money. Because if you don't we will only pay you role player money.. because right now thats what you are.

I like Jacobs he is freak of nature. I have drafted him in redraft this year because he should be the best Giant RB to own because of the goal line duty. But Bradshaw is going to time share with him. This actually helps Jacobs because Bradshaw can help get him to the stripe.

In dynasty I own Bradshaw because I think talent does win out and Bradshaw has it. I don't think a player like Jacobs will last long in the league. I expect injury to derail him again. I am just hoping Jacobs can have a good year in 2008. He has to if he wants a new deal with Giants or another team.

 

[gianmarco]

Yeah, but have you seen Bradshaw's BMI?

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Despite the coachspeak and the playoff run, I still think he sees 60-65% of RB touches and almost all goal line work. I do not believe they will be a full fledged RBBC team.

Here is the challenge with that claim: The Giants' actions and words are in direct opposition to your beliefs. You asked me to support my position, which I did with indisputable facts. I would not have my position if the facts did not justify it. Do you have anything more substantial than opinion which can justify your thought process?

With all due respect to coaches, they are not always forthright when they say things like that. Their "actions and words" now may or may not be what happens. Coach speak is very common this time of year. Basically, I'll believe it when I see it.

Did you watch the Giants in the playoffs?Brandon Jacobs 62 carries 197 yards 3.2 ypc 3 TD

Ahmad Bradshaw 48 carries 208 yards 4.3 ypc 1 TD

What more evidence do you need to realize that the Giants are employing a RBBC? These were the games that mattered most against the strongest compitition the Giants faced. This isn't coaches blowing smoke and tinkering with things in the preseason when games don't matter.

The Giants were using Bradshaw to move the chains because Jacobs kept getting stuffed. You need at a minimum 3.4 ypc to get a 1st down on 3 downs. Jacobs was not getting this done. Bradshaw was.

Simply put, I think Jacobs is clearly the best RB they have. Talent always wins out eventually.

Did you see the play where Bradshaw trucked a DE about 5 yards on a key 1st down conversion? Bradshaw has oodles of talent and is a more complete RB than Jacobs is imo. I think Jacobs is a really good player also, but I see Jacobs as more of a role player. Bradshaw is a complete RB.Talent and skill will win out eventually. So why didn't the Giants give Jacobs a new contract during the offseason? This is one of the things I really like about Jacobs this year. He wants to get paid. It is time for him to put up or shut up and play through those injuries.

Jacobs said show me the money. The Giants said show me the healthy. Show me the hands. Show me you deserve to get paid starter money. Because if you don't we will only pay you role player money.. because right now thats what you are.

I like Jacobs he is freak of nature. I have drafted him in redraft this year because he should be the best Giant RB to own because of the goal line duty. But Bradshaw is going to time share with him. This actually helps Jacobs because Bradshaw can help get him to the stripe.

In dynasty I own Bradshaw because I think talent does win out and Bradshaw has it. I don't think a player like Jacobs will last long in the league. I expect injury to derail him again. I am just hoping Jacobs can have a good year in 2008. He has to if he wants a new deal with Giants or another team.

I saw the playoffs and also saw the regular season. Jacobs averaged 5 YPC over 200 carries in the regular season. My opinion is that Jacobs is the superior talent and that is the basis of my opinion. Bradshaw may not even be the backup; he may be the #3 RB. I could never see Bradshaw being more than a RBBC type RB and I am not a fan of his talent. I don't think the regular season can be ignored despite what the playoff stats were. I also think durability is the only reason Jacobs has not yet gotten an extension. I don't think it has anything to do with performance or ability.

 

[H.K.]

Jacobs is a superior talent compared to Ward and Bradshaw and when he does play, it will be just like last year. He will produce.

Not sure where you get this from. Bradshaw outplayed Jacobs in every aspect of the game from week 17 though the Super Bowl.

No he didn't. Jacobs was GREAT at blocking and picking up the blitz (a weakness for Bradshaw although he has improved a lot in the area)

Jacobs was successful on short yardage (Bradshaw not used in that spot which helps his YPC)

Jacobs also hurts the opposing players. See Woodson getting run over on the first play in the GB game and see Woodson not go near a tackle the rest of the game. Items like this are huge and people just don't see it. You can also see the times Jacobs ran over Bruschi (I think it was Ted?)in the Super Bowl.

Bradshaw has game, but to ignore the impact of Jacobs is absolutely ignorant. if you are the Giants, you use both guys complementary to keep them fresh and you also use Ward at times. Droughns should not be used unless on special teams or injuries.

Here is every short yardage carry(3 yards or less) the Giants had during the playoffs:2-1-TB 37 (6:23) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to TB 38 for -1 yards (23-J.Phillips).

2-1-TB 8 (4:11) 27-B.Jacobs left tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN

2-3-TB 23 (14:07) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to TB 19 for 4 yards (94-G.Spires).

2-3-NYG 40 (2:30) 44-A.Bradshaw left tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (90-G.Adams, 23-J.Phillips).

3-3-NYG 40 (2:25) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (95-C.Hovan, 93-K.Carter).

2-2-DAL 42 (6:09) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to DAL 38 for 4 yards (56-B.James; 96-M.Spears).

3-1-NYG 12 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs left end to NYG 12 for no gain (42-A.Henry).

3-1-GB 2 (8:50) 27-B.Jacobs left guard to GB 1 for 1 yard. FUMBLES, recovered by NYG-89-K.Boss at GB 1.

1-1-GB 1 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

2-2-GB 4 (2:19) 44-A.Bradshaw left guard for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

3-1-GB 39 (1:17) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to GB 31 for 8 yards (36-N.Collins, 99-C.Williams).

3-1-NE 37 (9:01) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NE 29 for 8 yards (94-T.Warren, 75-V.Wilfork).

4-1-NYG 37 (1:34) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to NYG 39 for 2 yards (75-V.Wilfork, 93-R.Seymour).

That looks like 7 short yardage carries for Jacobs, and 6 for Bradshaw.

Interesting. Did you also happen to notice the following?Jacobs conversion rate on above plays: 6 of 7 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 2 TDs) -- 86% conversion rate

Bradshaw's conversion rate on above plays: 3 of 6 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 1 TD) -- 50% conversation rate

In those 6 plays above for Bradshaw, he was stopped for no gain or lost yardage on half of those. Small sample size, but who seemed to be more productive when it counted? I can't answer why the NYG had it as evenly split and can't say for sure whether or not it will continue like this, but overall Jacobs has proven to be quite effective in these situations and it carried into the playoffs when it counted most.

Liquid tension stated that Bradshaw was not used in short yardage situations, i was just pointing out that it was not true. With such a small sample size, i think it is tough to use the conversion rate as a measure of who is the better short yardage back. Also, Jacobs was 5 of 7, i dont think you can count a fumble that Boss fell on for a first down.

It is unfortunate that some people feel the need to be misleading, particularly when the data is available to verify their repeated transgressions. Inexplicably, some people have agendas and resort to lying and personal attacks (maybe they just want attention ?) All we can do is continue to be truthful and try to get back to some honest discussions.

While I am not surpised that nobody will actually step forward and support Jacobs, I am still honoring any takers on the sig bet, I'll welcome anyone who believes in Jacobs and is willing to abide by Joe's standards for being excellent.

 

[Biabreakable]

Yeah, but have you seen Bradshaw's BMI?

Nope.I don't much believe in that. But I am curious anyways.

 

[Biabreakable]

Despite the coachspeak and the playoff run, I still think he sees 60-65% of RB touches and almost all goal line work. I do not believe they will be a full fledged RBBC team.

Here is the challenge with that claim: The Giants' actions and words are in direct opposition to your beliefs. You asked me to support my position, which I did with indisputable facts. I would not have my position if the facts did not justify it. Do you have anything more substantial than opinion which can justify your thought process?

With all due respect to coaches, they are not always forthright when they say things like that. Their "actions and words" now may or may not be what happens. Coach speak is very common this time of year. Basically, I'll believe it when I see it.

Did you watch the Giants in the playoffs?Brandon Jacobs 62 carries 197 yards 3.2 ypc 3 TD

Ahmad Bradshaw 48 carries 208 yards 4.3 ypc 1 TD

What more evidence do you need to realize that the Giants are employing a RBBC? These were the games that mattered most against the strongest compitition the Giants faced. This isn't coaches blowing smoke and tinkering with things in the preseason when games don't matter.

The Giants were using Bradshaw to move the chains because Jacobs kept getting stuffed. You need at a minimum 3.4 ypc to get a 1st down on 3 downs. Jacobs was not getting this done. Bradshaw was.

Simply put, I think Jacobs is clearly the best RB they have. Talent always wins out eventually.

Did you see the play where Bradshaw trucked a DE about 5 yards on a key 1st down conversion? Bradshaw has oodles of talent and is a more complete RB than Jacobs is imo. I think Jacobs is a really good player also, but I see Jacobs as more of a role player. Bradshaw is a complete RB.Talent and skill will win out eventually. So why didn't the Giants give Jacobs a new contract during the offseason? This is one of the things I really like about Jacobs this year. He wants to get paid. It is time for him to put up or shut up and play through those injuries.

Jacobs said show me the money. The Giants said show me the healthy. Show me the hands. Show me you deserve to get paid starter money. Because if you don't we will only pay you role player money.. because right now thats what you are.

I like Jacobs he is freak of nature. I have drafted him in redraft this year because he should be the best Giant RB to own because of the goal line duty. But Bradshaw is going to time share with him. This actually helps Jacobs because Bradshaw can help get him to the stripe.

In dynasty I own Bradshaw because I think talent does win out and Bradshaw has it. I don't think a player like Jacobs will last long in the league. I expect injury to derail him again. I am just hoping Jacobs can have a good year in 2008. He has to if he wants a new deal with Giants or another team.

I saw the playoffs and also saw the regular season. Jacobs averaged 5 YPC over 200 carries in the regular season. My opinion is that Jacobs is the superior talent and that is the basis of my opinion. Bradshaw may not even be the backup; he may be the #3 RB. I could never see Bradshaw being more than a RBBC type RB and I am not a fan of his talent. I don't think the regular season can be ignored despite what the playoff stats were. I also think durability is the only reason Jacobs has not yet gotten an extension. I don't think it has anything to do with performance or ability.

Ok thats cool and hey Jacobs is a freak of nature. Very rare blend of size speed and power.And as long as he can stay healthy for a good chunk of games I expect him to have the most points of all Giant RBs in 2008.

I just don't see how you can ignore that the coaches are saying it will be a RBBC and that it was a RBBC and that was successful for them in the playoffs.

If it sounds like a duck, looks like a duck and acts like a duck then regardless of your opinion it probably is a duck.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Jacobs is a superior talent compared to Ward and Bradshaw and when he does play, it will be just like last year. He will produce.

Not sure where you get this from. Bradshaw outplayed Jacobs in every aspect of the game from week 17 though the Super Bowl.

No he didn't. Jacobs was GREAT at blocking and picking up the blitz (a weakness for Bradshaw although he has improved a lot in the area)

Jacobs was successful on short yardage (Bradshaw not used in that spot which helps his YPC)

Jacobs also hurts the opposing players. See Woodson getting run over on the first play in the GB game and see Woodson not go near a tackle the rest of the game. Items like this are huge and people just don't see it. You can also see the times Jacobs ran over Bruschi (I think it was Ted?)in the Super Bowl.

Bradshaw has game, but to ignore the impact of Jacobs is absolutely ignorant. if you are the Giants, you use both guys complementary to keep them fresh and you also use Ward at times. Droughns should not be used unless on special teams or injuries.

Here is every short yardage carry(3 yards or less) the Giants had during the playoffs:2-1-TB 37 (6:23) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to TB 38 for -1 yards (23-J.Phillips).

2-1-TB 8 (4:11) 27-B.Jacobs left tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN

2-3-TB 23 (14:07) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to TB 19 for 4 yards (94-G.Spires).

2-3-NYG 40 (2:30) 44-A.Bradshaw left tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (90-G.Adams, 23-J.Phillips).

3-3-NYG 40 (2:25) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (95-C.Hovan, 93-K.Carter).

2-2-DAL 42 (6:09) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to DAL 38 for 4 yards (56-B.James; 96-M.Spears).

3-1-NYG 12 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs left end to NYG 12 for no gain (42-A.Henry).

3-1-GB 2 (8:50) 27-B.Jacobs left guard to GB 1 for 1 yard. FUMBLES, recovered by NYG-89-K.Boss at GB 1.

1-1-GB 1 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

2-2-GB 4 (2:19) 44-A.Bradshaw left guard for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

3-1-GB 39 (1:17) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to GB 31 for 8 yards (36-N.Collins, 99-C.Williams).

3-1-NE 37 (9:01) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NE 29 for 8 yards (94-T.Warren, 75-V.Wilfork).

4-1-NYG 37 (1:34) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to NYG 39 for 2 yards (75-V.Wilfork, 93-R.Seymour).

That looks like 7 short yardage carries for Jacobs, and 6 for Bradshaw.

Interesting. Did you also happen to notice the following?Jacobs conversion rate on above plays: 6 of 7 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 2 TDs) -- 86% conversion rate

Bradshaw's conversion rate on above plays: 3 of 6 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 1 TD) -- 50% conversation rate

In those 6 plays above for Bradshaw, he was stopped for no gain or lost yardage on half of those. Small sample size, but who seemed to be more productive when it counted? I can't answer why the NYG had it as evenly split and can't say for sure whether or not it will continue like this, but overall Jacobs has proven to be quite effective in these situations and it carried into the playoffs when it counted most.

Liquid tension stated that Bradshaw was not used in short yardage situations, i was just pointing out that it was not true. With such a small sample size, i think it is tough to use the conversion rate as a measure of who is the better short yardage back. Also, Jacobs was 5 of 7, i dont think you can count a fumble that Boss fell on for a first down.

It is unfortunate that some people feel the need to be misleading, particularly when the data is available to verify their repeated transgressions. Inexplicably, some people have agendas and resort to lying and personal attacks (maybe they just want attention ?) All we can do is continue to be truthful and try to get back to some honest discussions.

While I am not surpised that nobody will actually step forward and support Jacobs, I am still honoring any takers on the sig bet, I'll welcome anyone who believes in Jacobs and is willing to abide by Joe's standards for being excellent.

Last year you lost your sig bet (after months of being wrong at every turn with many such quotes as Brandon Jacobs is the most absolute failure we will ever see at RB) and then you only put it in your sig for a very short time after losing...

Your rantings are something a psychologist would have a field day on...talk about transferring your own "mis-dealings" onto others...

 

[poopdawg]

Jacobs is a superior talent compared to Ward and Bradshaw and when he does play, it will be just like last year. He will produce.

Not sure where you get this from. Bradshaw outplayed Jacobs in every aspect of the game from week 17 though the Super Bowl.

No he didn't. Jacobs was GREAT at blocking and picking up the blitz (a weakness for Bradshaw although he has improved a lot in the area)

Jacobs was successful on short yardage (Bradshaw not used in that spot which helps his YPC)

Jacobs also hurts the opposing players. See Woodson getting run over on the first play in the GB game and see Woodson not go near a tackle the rest of the game. Items like this are huge and people just don't see it. You can also see the times Jacobs ran over Bruschi (I think it was Ted?)in the Super Bowl.

Bradshaw has game, but to ignore the impact of Jacobs is absolutely ignorant. if you are the Giants, you use both guys complementary to keep them fresh and you also use Ward at times. Droughns should not be used unless on special teams or injuries.

Here is every short yardage carry(3 yards or less) the Giants had during the playoffs:2-1-TB 37 (6:23) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to TB 38 for -1 yards (23-J.Phillips).

2-1-TB 8 (4:11) 27-B.Jacobs left tackle for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN

2-3-TB 23 (14:07) 27-B.Jacobs right tackle to TB 19 for 4 yards (94-G.Spires).

2-3-NYG 40 (2:30) 44-A.Bradshaw left tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (90-G.Adams, 23-J.Phillips).

3-3-NYG 40 (2:25) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NYG 40 for no gain (95-C.Hovan, 93-K.Carter).

2-2-DAL 42 (6:09) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to DAL 38 for 4 yards (56-B.James; 96-M.Spears).

3-1-NYG 12 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs left end to NYG 12 for no gain (42-A.Henry).

3-1-GB 2 (8:50) 27-B.Jacobs left guard to GB 1 for 1 yard. FUMBLES, recovered by NYG-89-K.Boss at GB 1.

1-1-GB 1 (8:01) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.

2-2-GB 4 (2:19) 44-A.Bradshaw left guard for 4 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

3-1-GB 39 (1:17) 44-A.Bradshaw left end to GB 31 for 8 yards (36-N.Collins, 99-C.Williams).

3-1-NE 37 (9:01) 44-A.Bradshaw right tackle to NE 29 for 8 yards (94-T.Warren, 75-V.Wilfork).

4-1-NYG 37 (1:34) 27-B.Jacobs up the middle to NYG 39 for 2 yards (75-V.Wilfork, 93-R.Seymour).

That looks like 7 short yardage carries for Jacobs, and 6 for Bradshaw.

Interesting. Did you also happen to notice the following?Jacobs conversion rate on above plays: 6 of 7 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 2 TDs) -- 86% conversion rate

Bradshaw's conversion rate on above plays: 3 of 6 plays resulted in a 1st down (with 1 TD) -- 50% conversation rate

In those 6 plays above for Bradshaw, he was stopped for no gain or lost yardage on half of those. Small sample size, but who seemed to be more productive when it counted? I can't answer why the NYG had it as evenly split and can't say for sure whether or not it will continue like this, but overall Jacobs has proven to be quite effective in these situations and it carried into the playoffs when it counted most.

Liquid tension stated that Bradshaw was not used in short yardage situations, i was just pointing out that it was not true. With such a small sample size, i think it is tough to use the conversion rate as a measure of who is the better short yardage back. Also, Jacobs was 5 of 7, i dont think you can count a fumble that Boss fell on for a first down.

It is unfortunate that some people feel the need to be misleading, particularly when the data is available to verify their repeated transgressions. Inexplicably, some people have agendas and resort to lying and personal attacks (maybe they just want attention ?) All we can do is continue to be truthful and try to get back to some honest discussions.

While I am not surpised that nobody will actually step forward and support Jacobs, I am still honoring any takers on the sig bet, I'll welcome anyone who believes in Jacobs and is willing to abide by Joe's standards for being excellent.

Id take that action but if I remember from last year, you backpedaled all year long, then use a tiny font for your sig and take it down after a few days. Its pathetic.

 

[H.K.]

Last year you lost your sig bet (after months of being wrong at every turn with many such quotes as Brandon Jacobs is the most absolute failure we will ever see at RB) and then you only put it in your sig for a very short time after losing...Your rantings are something a psychologist would have a field day on...talk about transferring your own "mis-dealings" onto others...

1) Seek the truth2) CoexistPeace

 

[H.K.]

Id take that action but if I remember from last year, you backpedaled all year long, then use a tiny font for your sig and take it down after a few days. Its pathetic.

In other words, you have no faith in Jacobs this year. I don't blame you.FYI - Jacobs back doored the #21 spot because of the number of starters who sat week 17 before the playoffs. Also, JB deleted my sig due to the large font size, so I put it back up for the required length of the agreement with normal font, which he allowed.

 

[tikitime]

Last year you lost your sig bet (after months of being wrong at every turn with many such quotes as Brandon Jacobs is the most absolute failure we will ever see at RB) and then you only put it in your sig for a very short time after losing...Your rantings are something a psychologist would have a field day on...talk about transferring your own "mis-dealings" onto others...

1) Seek the truth2) CoexistPeace

Pre-season last year you said Brandon Jacobs was going to be an "abject failure". He was typically ranked RB 17-20 by most sources. He finished in the neighborhood of his draft position. Explain how that is "abject failure".oh, and Peace.

 

[H.K.]

Pre-season last year you said Brandon Jacobs was going to be an "abject failure". He was typically ranked RB 17-20 by most sources. He finished in the neighborhood of his draft position. Explain how that is "abject failure".

In 2007, Jacobs entered the season with the support of the Giants to earn the status of a full time, every down RB. Here were the results:1) He could not be relied upon stay healthy or play with any level of discomfort. 2) He led the team in dropped passes despite an extremely low level of targets.3) He was routinely pulled at the goal line in favor of Droughns4) The Giants refused to sign him to a new contract and are forcing him to play out his dealIn 2008 the Giants have completely shifted away from Jacobs as a feature RB and are utilizing a four man committee, which will feature the hot hand on a weekly basis.Candy coat this situation however you want, but the fact remains that Jacobs had the opportunity to win a job and he failed miserably.Tell you what, since nobody will touch Jacobs at his current ranking of RB 18, I'll even lower the bar to RB 20 or better. Interested?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Last year you lost your sig bet (after months of being wrong at every turn with many such quotes as Brandon Jacobs is the most absolute failure we will ever see at RB) and then you only put it in your sig for a very short time after losing...Your rantings are something a psychologist would have a field day on...talk about transferring your own "mis-dealings" onto others...

1) Seek the truth2) CoexistPeace

Pre-season last year you said Brandon Jacobs was going to be an "abject failure". He was typically ranked RB 17-20 by most sources. He finished in the neighborhood of his draft position. Explain how that is "abject failure".oh, and Peace.

He was supposed to be a steal. Definition of steal? - outperform his ADP. He failed.

 

[tikitime]

Last year you lost your sig bet (after months of being wrong at every turn with many such quotes as Brandon Jacobs is the most absolute failure we will ever see at RB) and then you only put it in your sig for a very short time after losing...Your rantings are something a psychologist would have a field day on...talk about transferring your own "mis-dealings" onto others...

1) Seek the truth2) CoexistPeace

Pre-season last year you said Brandon Jacobs was going to be an "abject failure". He was typically ranked RB 17-20 by most sources. He finished in the neighborhood of his draft position. Explain how that is "abject failure".oh, and Peace.

He was supposed to be a steal. Definition of steal? - outperform his ADP. He failed.

Who said he was a steal last year? He performed to expectations. When healthy he was MUCH better than anybody had hoped for, but he didn't stay healthy. End result, however it happened, he met expectations. How is that a failure?

 

[H.K.]

Who said he was a steal last year? He performed to expectations. When healthy he was MUCH better than anybody had hoped for, but he didn't stay healthy. End result, however it happened, he met expectations. How is that a failure?

How is losing job responsibility and not getting a new contract success?

 

[tikitime]

Pre-season last year you said Brandon Jacobs was going to be an "abject failure". He was typically ranked RB 17-20 by most sources. He finished in the neighborhood of his draft position. Explain how that is "abject failure".

In 2007, Jacobs entered the season with the support of the Giants to earn the status of a full time, every down RB. Here were the results:1) He could not be relied upon stay healthy or play with any level of discomfort. 2) He led the team in dropped passes despite an extremely low level of targets.3) He was routinely pulled at the goal line in favor of Droughns4) The Giants refused to sign him to a new contract and are forcing him to play out his dealIn 2008 the Giants have completely shifted away from Jacobs as a feature RB and are utilizing a four man committee, which will feature the hot hand on a weekly basis.Candy coat this situation however you want, but the fact remains that Jacobs had the opportunity to win a job and he failed miserably.Tell you what, since nobody will touch Jacobs at his current ranking of RB 18, I'll even lower the bar to RB 20 or better. Interested?

In your view he will get hurt again, he can't catch, he is less talented than Bradshaw, droughns will get the goal-line carries.With all those problems he should end up with about 900 yards total and 4 TDs with maybe 25 catches? Also, you seem to think he is one of the worst backs in the league, and clearly, AT BEST the 3rd best back on the Giant roster. So why not make the bet at RB 30?

 

[Liquid Tension]

Pre-season last year you said Brandon Jacobs was going to be an "abject failure". He was typically ranked RB 17-20 by most sources. He finished in the neighborhood of his draft position. Explain how that is "abject failure".

In 2007, Jacobs entered the season with the support of the Giants to earn the status of a full time, every down RB. Here were the results:1) He could not be relied upon stay healthy or play with any level of discomfort. 2) He led the team in dropped passes despite an extremely low level of targets.3) He was routinely pulled at the goal line in favor of Droughns4) The Giants refused to sign him to a new contract and are forcing him to play out his dealIn 2008 the Giants have completely shifted away from Jacobs as a feature RB and are utilizing a four man committee, which will feature the hot hand on a weekly basis.Candy coat this situation however you want, but the fact remains that Jacobs had the opportunity to win a job and he failed miserably.Tell you what, since nobody will touch Jacobs at his current ranking of RB 18, I'll even lower the bar to RB 20 or better. Interested?

Your shtick is old and tired and worse, it is WRONG.

It is unfortunate that some people feel the need to be misleading, particularly when the data is available to verify their repeated transgressions. Inexplicably, some people have agendas and resort to lying and personal attacks (maybe they just want attention ?) All we can do is continue to be truthful and try to get back to some honest discussions

Looking in the mirror again?Ask any Giant fan and they will tell you that Jacobs is a great weapon to have and to say he failed miserably is at the opposite spectrum of the truth. The committee will be 3 (not 4) and Jacobs will still be the point leader barring major injury. Don't you ever get tired of being Jacobs punished defenses and helped the Giants not only by having a good success rate on short yardage, but by averaging 5 YPC during the season and also by being the best blocking HB in football. On top of that ask Bruschi and Darren Woodson (who he ran over) about how effective they were the rest of the games after Jacobs hurt them. He was not good in the passing game and while he deserves most of the blame, some of that were Eli's poor throws (which I have reviewed EVERY one of them).Describing Jacobs as "Failed miserably"is one of the dumbest 10 statements I have read on these boards. I think most of the other 9 were used up by you in the previous Jacobs thread.You may have some bone to pick with Jacobs, but you make yourself look like a complete tool with such absurd comments.Maybe your definition of failure means extremely helpful? BTW, as for your sig bet (which you will re-neg on anyway) the idea is not about where Jacobs will finish because it is possible that with all the talent at the RB position that he may or may not hit 20, the point is that he is a weapon, even if not a great fantasy option. I have never said he is a top 10 fantasy RB on the Giants, but to make such falsely inaccurate claims is irresponsible of you. Maybe you should follow your advice of "All we can do is continue to be truthful and try to get back to some honest discussions" because as of right now all you do is lower the intellect on these boards by bringing the rest of down to your level.Having to resort to annoying posts like this is a good example...

 

[tikitime]

Who said he was a steal last year? He performed to expectations. When healthy he was MUCH better than anybody had hoped for, but he didn't stay healthy. End result, however it happened, he met expectations. How is that a failure?

How is losing job responsibility and not getting a new contract success?

Is the definition of "abject failure" not achieving all of your goals? Pretty clearly A-ROD was a total bust in 1999? The Mariners made him play out his contract. Clearly he sucked big time.You know H.K., I think I decided who you are, you're Frank Grimes from the Simpsons, Ok Grimey?

 

[Liquid Tension]

Last year you lost your sig bet (after months of being wrong at every turn with many such quotes as Brandon Jacobs is the most absolute failure we will ever see at RB) and then you only put it in your sig for a very short time after losing...Your rantings are something a psychologist would have a field day on...talk about transferring your own "mis-dealings" onto others...

1) Seek the truth2) CoexistPeace

Pre-season last year you said Brandon Jacobs was going to be an "abject failure". He was typically ranked RB 17-20 by most sources. He finished in the neighborhood of his draft position. Explain how that is "abject failure".oh, and Peace.

He was supposed to be a steal. Definition of steal? - outperform his ADP. He failed.

Who said he was a steal last year? He performed to expectations. When healthy he was MUCH better than anybody had hoped for, but he didn't stay healthy. End result, however it happened, he met expectations. How is that a failure?

One could argue that when he was used as a starter he outperformed his ADP as well. I would rather know when a guy is out then have a guy put up weaker numbers every week. (example: having a guy start and put up 13 points for the 11 games he started is better than having a guy put up 9 points all 16 games.)

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Pre-season last year you said Brandon Jacobs was going to be an "abject failure". He was typically ranked RB 17-20 by most sources. He finished in the neighborhood of his draft position. Explain how that is "abject failure".

In 2007, Jacobs entered the season with the support of the Giants to earn the status of a full time, every down RB. Here were the results:1) He could not be relied upon stay healthy or play with any level of discomfort. 2) He led the team in dropped passes despite an extremely low level of targets.3) He was routinely pulled at the goal line in favor of Droughns4) The Giants refused to sign him to a new contract and are forcing him to play out his dealIn 2008 the Giants have completely shifted away from Jacobs as a feature RB and are utilizing a four man committee, which will feature the hot hand on a weekly basis.Candy coat this situation however you want, but the fact remains that Jacobs had the opportunity to win a job and he failed miserably.Tell you what, since nobody will touch Jacobs at his current ranking of RB 18, I'll even lower the bar to RB 20 or better. Interested?

1000 rushing yards and a 5 YPC are not a failure no matter what logic you use.

 

[H.K.]

Who said he was a steal last year? He performed to expectations. When healthy he was MUCH better than anybody had hoped for, but he didn't stay healthy. End result, however it happened, he met expectations. How is that a failure?

How is losing job responsibility and not getting a new contract success?

Is the definition of "abject failure" not achieving all of your goals? Pretty clearly A-ROD was a total bust in 1999? The Mariners made him play out his contract. Clearly he sucked big time.

You know H.K., I think I decided who you are, you're Frank Grimes from the Simpsons, Ok Grimey?

Your analogy is flawed and you know it.FACT: Jacobs tried to low-ball the Giants into an extension and they still turned him down.

"I just wanted to be able to prove myself," Jacobs said after arriving at the University at Albany yesterday. "I see what guys are getting when they hit the market. And that's not what I was asking for. I was asking for half of what they got and half of the years. I thought that was fair. But I can't be the one to say what I think was fair and what's not. Now I've got a whole season to prove myself."

FACT: Even Jacobs admits its a committee of four

Of course, the fact that he appeared in only 11 games - due to a sprained knee and a pulled hamstring - is why the Giants are reluctant to give him a sizeable deal. And with Derrick Ward, Ahmad Bradshaw and Reuben Droughns on the roster, it's not clear if Jacobs will ever get big money from the Giants.

"And I understand where they're coming from," Jacobs said. "Why pay one when you've got three (others) that are really producing?"

FACT: He's not even locked in as the starter

In fact, those other three players are valued so highly by the Giants that when running backs coach Jerald Ingram was asked if Jacobs was still the Giants' No.1 back, he was noncommittal.

"I mean, in all fairness, you have to start over," Ingram said.

link He failed.

 

[puckalicious]

The easiest way to rid the boards of a troll is to stop replying to his posts. Too much going on here.