​ 🏛️ ​Official Supreme Court nomination thread - Amy Coney Barrett (3 Viewers)

[Ramblin Wreck]

And it means she's already passed background checks.

That doesn't mean a thing.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

It's just fun to watch.

No it's not. I specifically asked people not do this. 

Take time off. 

 

[fantasycurse42]

Trying to read about the Fed rate decision CNBC and this is the top story:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/26/michael-avenatti-identifies-kavanaugh-accuser-as-julie-swetnick.html

I mean, first off, I don't know if this guy did this stuff or not, but they need to move on. If it was a so-called smear job, well done and I feel bad for him, if not, #### him. I don't know what happened, what is true, etc. etc... Regardless, it is time to move along to a new nomination.

A few things stood out to me in the article. I don't want to downplay anything, but Avenatti is like the Trump version of a Democrat, do we all agree the guy is a sleezebag? I have a hard time attaching anything credible to him. 

Regardless:

A 1980 graduate of Gaithersburg High School in Maryland

coupled with this

During the years of 1981 and 1982, she said, she learned of efforts by Kavanaugh, his friend Judge and others "to spike the drinks of girls at house parties I attended with grain alcohol and/or drugs so as to cause girls to lose inhibitions and their ability to say 'No.' "

Did she attend college? Why is this girl at high school parties as a 20-21 year old girl in college? Usually college girls don't go to high school boy's parties.

Swetnick said she "witnessed efforts by Mark Judge, Brett Kavanaugh and others to cause girls to become inebriated and disoriented so they could then be 'gang raped' in a side room or bedroom by a 'train' of numerous boys."

She must have been big on the high school party scene as a college student and fully in the know. Even so, with an allegation like this, there should be a decent amount of eyewitness corroboration on these statements, this doesn't sound very secretive to me.

"I have a firm recollection of seeing boys lined up outside rooms at many of these parties waiting for their 'turn' with a girl inside the room," Swetnick said. "These boys included Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh."

Again, sounds like dozens, if not hundreds of people would know about this, this is the opposite of secretive.
 

She also said in her affidavit sent to the Senate Judiciary Committee that in approximately 1982 "I became the victim of one of these 'gang' or 'train' rapes where Mark Judge and Brett Kavanaugh were present."

I mean, is the guy a serial rapist? He just happened to be a crazy rapist at 16, 17, 18, and then the behavior stopped out of nowhere? This isn't like a hanging at a party and you meet a girl that is drunk and you're also drunk and maybe you have sex - this would be some heinous behavior. This wouldn't be something that happened with groups of young men doing this and none of them grew up to be serial rapists. 2+2 isn't totaling 4 here when I put together this entire story, then I look at the author, and numbers get even wonkier. 

Honestly, I have no clue, but between a college dorm party, and multiple house parties, there should be at least a couple of witnesses to corroborate as these all sound like very public gatherings. 

If it is false, I feel bad for the guy no matter how much I dislike him or disagree with his opinion. Regardless of that, they really need to move on to someone new.

 

[JIslander]

Flake isn't seeking re-election. He's got to make sure he can still get a cushy job at a conservative think tank. 

Are they really thinking anymore?

 

[Sheriff Bart]

For real?  Ferris, time to take a breather...seriously quit digging so deep into this stuff for a few days.

Right? I mean it's not like it will affect your life and the life of your children and probably grandchildren.

 

[fatness]

With regard to this latest accusation- even if Kavanaugh's name is pulled, it still has to be investigated, right? How can he continue to serve on the court that he's currently on?

Right now Congress isn't inclined to do that. The White House won't. There has to be a criminal complaint for it to be investigated by police or the FBI. If the House turns over in November I'd imagine it'll be investigated after January.

 

[zoonation]

If you really think it's only 2-5% then you have your blinders on because it serves your political motives. While it certainly needs to be pursued there is a significant chance this is appearing now for political reasons. If guilty he deserves to pay for sure.......timing seems very political obviously. 

Who America appoints to its supreme court has no bearing on my life.  I agree the timing is political.  But there are too many separate moving pieces that are filling in a picture here that cannot be discounted.  And, in my view Kavanaugh is a liar.  Unfit.

The fact that they will not investigate serious allegations (and the fact that the women all want an investigation), is damning.  They know he wouldn't survive it.

The dems played politics for sure.  But what the gop is doing here is reprehensible.

 

[fatness]

Lindsay Graham- "Why did she keep going to the parties?"

This is known as the Bill Cosby defense. 

Now is not the time to discuss other nominees if Kavanaugh isn't approved.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't think that's correct. The nomination can still be introduced to the full Senate even if it doesn't pass the committee vote.

Yeah good point, I believe that is right. But given how much trouble they're already having it's hard to imagine a from the committee would be anything less than a death blow.

 

[Don't Noonan]

Please explain what these women have to gain. Particularly Dr. Ford. Be specific, please.

Dr. Ford will benefit in a huge way if Kavanaugh ultimately is rejected.  Just look at all of the gofundme's set up for Democratic heroes Strzok and others who are seen as anti-Trump.  This is of course assuming she hasn't been paid already.  I hope she shows up and speaks tomorrow and if Kavanaugh is guilty he is held accountable and denied.  I would bet a lot of money Kavanaugh is innocent.

 

[timschochet]

I see now he has affirmed what you are saying. My view on the matter was different. Here is what I was about to post in reply to you, which is obviously not the point he was making(god bless the show replies feature).

I find it discussion worthy why a 19-20 year old girl would continue to go to high school parties that had regular gang rapes by the same guys. This isn't like the situation where one time it happened and nobody said anything. That is well documented. This isn't a situation where we are talking about a gang of bandits or a street gang that has female members that get raped but stay in the gang. That kind of stuff is also documented. So definitely not credibility destroying information, but worthy of discussion nonetheless since it isn't something that falls into a bucket of common victim behavior, since she wasn't a victim at that time. 

You're talking about parties in which girls were given drugs, led into back rooms, and had sex with lots of guys.  I was never at such a party, but I heard about a few. I doubt that anyone who was involved in them regarded them as rape, including the victims, until well after the fact (or they were too ashamed to admit it.) The girls were regarded as "sluts". The guys were regarded (by the girls) as "dangerous" (and I knew a few girls who were attracted to this "dangerous" aspect- even if they didn't want to be one of the "sluts".

As for reporting to the authorities- almost no bad behavior was ever reported to the authorities. It was called being a "narc". It was the worst thing you could do, worse than whatever the crime was. THAT I remember quite clearly.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

If she is convicted of perjury, she loses her clearances and her career.

Is she going on trial though?  If two people testify and one says he did it and another says he didn't then one of them committed perjury.  But Congress isn't going to convict her.  At worst they will believe him and that's the end of it.  Right?

 

[H Jass]

Right? I mean it's not like it will affect your life and the life of your children and probably grandchildren.

Really? C'mon...this is how you know you are too deep and in information overload mode.  Thus my comment.  I'm not trolling, fishing, anything.  The sun will come up tomorrow no matter the outcome of this random Supreme Court justice nomination process during a really weird time in our history.  We need Yankee23 to drop some historical perspective.  This is a serious issue, absolutely, but I'm only reacting to what sounds like someone approaching the edge of a nervous breakdown.  I'm not poking, making fun, or anything of the sort.  If you find your hands shaking and you can't type about any news event that you have zero control of, I advise you take a step back.

 

[-fish-]

Who America appoints to its supreme court has no bearing on my life.  I agree the timing is political.  But there are too many separate moving pieces that are filling in a picture here that cannot be discounted.  And, in my view Kavanaugh is a liar.  Unfit.

The fact that they will not investigate serious allegations (and the fact that the women all want an investigation), is damning.  They know he wouldn't survive it.

The dems played politics for sure.  But what the gop is doing here is reprehensible.

This is a really strange take.   Your rights as a citizen are shaped by the Supreme Court's decisions.   

 

[thayman]

Dr. Ford will benefit in a huge way if Kavanaugh ultimately is rejected.  Just look at all of the gofundme's set up for Democratic heroes Strzok and others who are seen as anti-Trump.  This is of course assuming she hasn't been paid already.  I hope she shows up and speaks tomorrow and if Kavanaugh is guilty he is held accountable and denied.  I would bet a lot of money Kavanaugh is innocent.

How much is a lot?

 

[Stuart Ullman]

I thought this was supposed to be over on Monday?

 

[Henry Ford]

I see now he has affirmed what you are saying. My view on the matter was different. Here is what I was about to post in reply to you, which is obviously not the point he was making(god bless the show replies feature).

I find it discussion worthy why a 19-20 year old girl would continue to go to high school parties that had regular gang rapes by the same guys. This isn't like the situation where one time it happened and nobody said anything. That is well documented. This isn't a situation where we are talking about a gang of bandits or a street gang that has female members that get raped but stay in the gang. That kind of stuff is also documented. So definitely not credibility destroying information, but worthy of discussion nonetheless since it isn't something that falls into a bucket of common victim behavior, since she wasn't a victim at that time. 

I want to try to give some context to this issue.

I think we all know that gang rapes happened at fraternity houses in the 60s, certainly 70s, and absolutely in the 80s.  They happened.  I'm not saying they happened every day, or every party, but they happened. And people kept going to fraternity parties.

The very first known fraternity gang rape successfully prosecuted was in 1990.  It was the cover of People magazine.  The concept that a young woman who was too drunk to say "no" was being raped was just not in the public consciousness at the time.  It really wasn't.  I know that sounds crazy, but "she was wasted so I had sex with her" was a thing that happened a lot.  And many woman were told "that's not rape."

Edit: Oh, and the ringleader who was convicted?  Her "date" that night?  Got the longest sentence in the history of date rape convictions.  364 days.  

Why would anyone go to the police?

 

[-fish-]

Dr. Ford will benefit in a huge way if Kavanaugh ultimately is rejected.  Just look at all of the gofundme's set up for Democratic heroes Strzok and others who are seen as anti-Trump.  This is of course assuming she hasn't been paid already.  I hope she shows up and speaks tomorrow and if Kavanaugh is guilty he is held accountable and denied.  I would bet a lot of money Kavanaugh is innocent.

This is not a criminal trial.  There is no guilty, and there is never an innocent.

 

[TobiasFunke]

If you really think it's only 2-5% then you have your blinders on because it serves your political motives. While it certainly needs to be pursued there is a significant chance this is appearing now for political reasons. If guilty he deserves to pay for sure.......timing seems very political obviously. 

Trump brought four women who had accused Hillary Clinton's husband of sexual misconduct to a presidential debate in an attempt to rattle her.

If conservatives have issues with people exploiting sexual misconduct for political gain they probably should have raised them earlier. 

 

[Henry Ford]

Is she going on trial though?  If two people testify and one says he did it and another says he didn't then one of them committed perjury.  But Congress isn't going to convict her.  At worst they will believe him and that's the end of it.  Right?

I find it unlikely that Kavanaugh's supporters would let it go.

 

[timschochet]

Dr. Ford will benefit in a huge way if Kavanaugh ultimately is rejected. 

I usually disagree with you quite strongly, but this is the most I've ever disagreed with you. IMO, you couldn't be more wrong.  She will have to fear death threats for years, probably for the rest of her life.  There are crazies out there that will absolutely blame her because Roe wasn't overturned, and will therefore hold her personally responsible for the murder of millions of innocent babies. She is making herself a target forever. I honestly don't know if I would have the courage to do what she's about to do.

 

[timschochet]

Is she going on trial though?  If two people testify and one says he did it and another says he didn't then one of them committed perjury.  But Congress isn't going to convict her.  At worst they will believe him and that's the end of it.  Right?

Assuming she's lying, she voluntarily chose to lie under penalty of perjury. You're correct, she's not going to trial over it.  But do you understand the incredible risks involved?

 

[TobiasFunke]

I see now he has affirmed what you are saying. My view on the matter was different. Here is what I was about to post in reply to you, which is obviously not the point he was making(god bless the show replies feature).

I find it discussion worthy why a 19-20 year old girl would continue to go to high school parties that had regular gang rapes by the same guys. This isn't like the situation where one time it happened and nobody said anything. That is well documented. This isn't a situation where we are talking about a gang of bandits or a street gang that has female members that get raped but stay in the gang. That kind of stuff is also documented. So definitely not credibility destroying information, but worthy of discussion nonetheless since it isn't something that falls into a bucket of common victim behavior, since she wasn't a victim at that time. 

I discussed a possible explanation in this post. I grew up about midway between the two high schools and have lived in the area for most of my life so I have a decent feel for the dynamics at play.

 

[Sinn Fein]

from kavanaugh's opening remarks for tomorrow:

Dr. Ford’s allegation dates back more than 36 years, to a party that she says occurred dring our time in high school. I spent most of my time in high school focused on academics, sports, church, and service. But I was not perfect in those days, just as I am not perfect today. I drank beer with my friends, usually on weekends. Sometimes I had too many. In retrospect, I said and did things in high school that make me cringe now. But that’s not why we are here today. What I’ve been accused of is far more serious than juvenile misbehavior. I never did anything remotely resembling what Dr. Ford describes.

He seems to be backing away quickly from the choirboy claim ...

 

[zoonation]

This is a really strange take.   Your rights as a citizen are shaped by the Supreme Court's decisions.   

my rights as a Canadian citizen?

 

[Don't Noonan]

This is not a criminal trial.  There is no guilty, and there is never an innocent.

never said it was 

 

[ericttspikes]

Republicans: Beto O'Rourke got a DUI in his 20's, he's not qualified to be a senator
Also Republicans: What does it matter if Kav was part of gang rapes in his teens, that was a long time ago!

Beto O'Rourke: “serious mistake for which there is no excuse.” 

Republicans: "________ never happened."

Never owning failures. Believing that admitting to mistakes is a weakness. Just hoping their lies are enough to move on. This is the Trump way. The guy's amorality is a cancer. 

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

There has to be a criminal complaint for it to be investigated by police or the FBI. If the House turns over in November I'd imagine it'll be investigated after January.

There is also an election for Maryland Attorney General in November.  I'd assume that in Maryland that the democrat incumbent would be safe or even benefit politically with this, but ...

 

[Sheriff Bart]

my rights as a Canadian citizen?

Great, @-fish- just tipped off Operation Canadian Bacon. 

 

[timschochet]

  The concept that a young woman who was too drunk to say "no" was being raped was just not in the public consciousness at the time.  It really wasn't.  I know that sounds crazy, but "she was wasted so I had sex with her" was a thing that happened a lot.  And many woman were told "that's not rape."

This is absolutely true.

And as I wrote, I never was at one of these parties, but I knew some guys who claimed they were.  And, being honest, when I was told about it ("yeah there was this drunk girl and she went into the bedroom and did all of us, one at a time, I was third in line") I never once thought about the guy telling me this, "You're a rapist." What I thought was, "Yeah right you're full of ####." I

 

[fatness]

from kavanaugh's opening remarks for tomorrow:

Dr. Ford’s allegation dates back more than 36 years, to a party that she says occurred dring our time in high school. I spent most of my time in high school focused on academics, sports, church, and service. But I was not perfect in those days, just as I am not perfect today. I drank beer with my friends, usually on weekends. Sometimes I had too many. In retrospect, I said and did things in high school that make me cringe now. But that’s not why we are here today. What I’ve been accused of is far more serious than juvenile misbehavior. I never did anything remotely resembling what Dr. Ford describes.

He seems to be backing away quickly from the choirboy claim ...

Backing away seems to be the activity of the day.

Nancy Cook‏Verified account @nancook 2h2 hours ago

One R close to the Kavanaugh confirmation process just told me this after the third allegation of sexual misconduct came out --> “You can’t be a rapist and alcoholic at the age of 17 and then years later, become a highly accomplished person.”

Nancy Cordes‏Verified account @nancycordes

Distressed GOP aide to me, just now: “@MichaelAvenatti brought the heat.” “America should be sad.” Implication: Swetnick’s allegations could have a major impact on Kavanaugh’s chances, even though many republicans still think he would make a great Supreme Court Justice.

 

[timschochet]

my rights as a Canadian citizen?

Not yet, but when we avenge 1812, watch out!

 

[Sinn Fein]

Great, @-fish- just tipped off Operation Canadian Bacon. 

Don't tell @Mr. Ham

 

[Mile High]

If she is convicted of perjury, she loses her clearances and her career.

No worries shes doing this for that GoFundMe money. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Assuming she's lying, she voluntarily chose to lie under penalty of perjury. You're correct, she's not going to trial over it.  But do you understand the incredible risks involved?

Ummm yeah I understand how a security clearance works, what it means for a career, etc....  I'm not questioning her at all I'm just saying the fact she holds a clearance does not make her any more credible than any other person.  I know plenty of shady people that can get security clearances.  Also, it insinuates Ford should be doubted because she doesn't hold a clearance.  That's the point I'm making and made the other day.

 

[Henry Ford]

Context:

This is what the very first conviction of a fraternity gang rape brought into the social consciousness.  This article was roughly eight years after Ford's allegations.

https://people.com/archive/cover-story-silent-no-more-vol-34-no-24/

 

[Don't Noonan]

I usually disagree with you quite strongly, but this is the most I've ever disagreed with you. IMO, you couldn't be more wrong.  She will have to fear death threats for years, probably for the rest of her life.  There are crazies out there that will absolutely blame her because Roe wasn't overturned, and will therefore hold her personally responsible for the murder of millions of innocent babies. She is making herself a target forever. I honestly don't know if I would have the courage to do what she's about to do.

No, if she is proven to be credible only a select few lunatics may act that way towards her.  Most will support her courage to come forward.

 

[timschochet]

No, if she is proven to be credible only a select few lunatics may act that way towards her.  Most will support her courage to come forward.

Not sure how to keep restating this- it only takes one lunatic.

I wouldn't want ANY lunatics after me for the rest of my life. One single lunatic potentially hating my guts would be enough to change my behavior.  I am afraid of lunatics. 

 

[Don't Noonan]

How much is a lot?

Why?  Do you know of a legit way to bet?

 

[Rove!]

I think these accusations have jumped the shark

basicalky saying that he was a ringleader in a bunch of gang rapers where kids would line up outside of a bedroom while a train was run on some girl by multiple parties is a bridge way too far.....

for something like this to have occurred at a bunch of parties, you would expect there to be hundreds of witnesses, and dozens of victims.  Given all of the people that have come forward to vouch for BK’s character and the number af FBI background checks done previously, the probability that this latest round is accurate is ridiculously small.

if the FBI wants to have a look, have at it, but this should not delay the vote.  If HRC can run for President with a very serious FBI investigation under way, I believe that precedent has been set for this process to continue.  The alternative would be to hold all future nominations hostage to the wildest and most unlikely of allegations...

 

[-fish-]

never said it was 

You keep referring to guilty and innocent.  Nobody's going to be found guilty and nobody's going to be found innocent.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

I would say there are probably a number of reasons.

Chief among them, bringing these kind of accusations is really hard on someone's life right now.  In the early 80s, it was even more destructive. By a lot. Add in the fact that one of the kids she'd be accusing (Kavanaugh) was the child of a prosecutor (later judge) in the same county, and the fact that she was at a party full of underage drinking.  And she was a nerdy girl who was being allowed at popular kid parties.

We're talking about a girl who, while still in high school, was allowed into an internship at a major university to study laser holographic imaging in the late 70s.  And then was studying applied particle physics the next year.  It's not outrageous to think the slightest hint of impropriety would have derailed everything, at least in her mind.  

Ok, so she was the only one who knew? Noone else knew? Noone wanted to alert the police because of the underage drinking, I can see that.

None of these girls that were sexually abused had a brother, cousin, male friend that could be told by ANYONE?

I grew up in the 80s also. If this happened in my neck of the woods these dudes would've paid. Hard.

Am I wrong to assume that it wouldn't be like that in the next state over?

Forgive me, but I find that hard to believe.

Keep in mind that I really don't care if the seat on the court is filled by a D or an R.

 

[JIslander]

No worries shes doing this for that GoFundMe money. 

It was all laid out in the Deep State Plan. Thanks Obama!

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Trump being interviewed now.  When asked if the three women are lying, "Next question." 

I thought he said "we are on to Cincinnatti."

 

[Cowboysfan8]

As usual, I don't believe a word you write.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

 

[JIslander]

No, if she is proven to be credible only a select few lunatics may act that way towards her.  Most will support her courage to come forward.

Like the 63 million?

 

[Henry Ford]

Ok, so she was the only one who knew? Noone else knew? Noone wanted to alert the police because of the underage drinking, I can see that.

None of these girls that were sexually abused had a brother, cousin, male friend that could be told by ANYONE?

I grew up in the 80s also. If this happened in my neck of the woods these dudes would've paid. Hard.

Am I wrong to assume that it wouldn't be like that in the next state over?

Forgive me, but I find that hard to believe.

Keep in mind that I really don't care if the seat on the court is filled by a D or an R.

I guess I don't know what you mean by "grew up in the 80s."

In 1982, a girl who was drunkenly taken advantage of by a group of prep school trust fund kids was known as a "slut" not a "rape victim."

 

[-fish-]

my rights as a Canadian citizen?

Oops.   Carry on enjoying your delicious poutine, free health care and not having a national embarrassment leading your country.  

 

[fatness]

humor break

 

[Don't Noonan]

Not sure how to keep restating this- it only takes one lunatic.

I wouldn't want ANY lunatics after me for the rest of my life. One single lunatic potentially hating my guts would be enough to change my behavior.  I am afraid of lunatics. 

Understood.  I wouldn't either.  Some people may be okay with the tradeoff of fame and fortune.