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***2015 San Diego Chargers - Offseason News, Notes, & Analysis*** (1 Viewer)

Just Win Baby said:
bfan85 said:
While college performance definitely doesn't guarantee anything in the NFL (see: Trent Richardson), it's not as if Gordon is some longshot scrub.

In 2014, posted the second-most single-season rushing yards in FBS History with 2,587 (Barry Sanders is No. 1 with 2,628 in 1988). Won Doak Walker Award (nation's best running back) and was selected first-team All-American and first-team All-Big Ten. Was Heisman runner-up to Marcus Mariota. Gordon briefly held the FBS single-game rushing record with 408 yards against Nebraska. Set school records with 12 100-yard games and six 200-yard games. Led the nation with 29 rushing touchdowns. In 2013, selected second-team All-Big Ten after leading the nation with 7.8 yards per carry. Was the only player in FBS with three runs of 70-plus yards. In 2012, rushed for 216 yards in Big Ten Championship Game against Nebraska. In 2011, played in three games before a groin injury sidelined him for the remainder of the season. Was first-team All-State and Offensive Player of the Year in Wisconsin after rushing for 2,009 yards and 38 touchdowns as a senior.
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You are posting in the Chargers thread. We are all well aware of Gordon's resume. He was a very accomplished college RB. There are many positives to his game, but there are also areas he will need to improve, notably pass blocking and receiving. Regardless of his resume, he is a part-time player. Until and unless he forces his way onto the field as a three down RB, his impact will by definition be capped.
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Well aware of the thread, skippy.

Some of us don't write off rookie running backs with a good pedigree after 5 weeks, particularly when they've looked good running the ball behind a line absolutely decimated this early in the season.

 
bfan85 said:
Just Win Baby said:
bfan85 said:
While college performance definitely doesn't guarantee anything in the NFL (see: Trent Richardson), it's not as if Gordon is some longshot scrub.

In 2014, posted the second-most single-season rushing yards in FBS History with 2,587 (Barry Sanders is No. 1 with 2,628 in 1988). Won Doak Walker Award (nation's best running back) and was selected first-team All-American and first-team All-Big Ten. Was Heisman runner-up to Marcus Mariota. Gordon briefly held the FBS single-game rushing record with 408 yards against Nebraska. Set school records with 12 100-yard games and six 200-yard games. Led the nation with 29 rushing touchdowns. In 2013, selected second-team All-Big Ten after leading the nation with 7.8 yards per carry. Was the only player in FBS with three runs of 70-plus yards. In 2012, rushed for 216 yards in Big Ten Championship Game against Nebraska. In 2011, played in three games before a groin injury sidelined him for the remainder of the season. Was first-team All-State and Offensive Player of the Year in Wisconsin after rushing for 2,009 yards and 38 touchdowns as a senior.
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You are posting in the Chargers thread. We are all well aware of Gordon's resume. He was a very accomplished college RB. There are many positives to his game, but there are also areas he will need to improve, notably pass blocking and receiving. Regardless of his resume, he is a part-time player. Until and unless he forces his way onto the field as a three down RB, his impact will by definition be capped.
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Well aware of the thread, skippy.

Some of us don't write off rookie running backs with a good pedigree after 5 weeks, particularly when they've looked good running the ball behind a line absolutely decimated this early in the season.
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No one has stated that they have written Gordon off. Saying the Chargers should have used those picks differently is not equivalent to writing Gordon off. Skippy.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
Gordon looks great to me. I'm very happy with that pick.
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Out of curiosity, are there any picks Telesco has made that you aren't happy with?
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If I am allowed to use hindsight, which is totally cheating, I'd say that Marion Grice and Tevin Reese weren't very good picks, and Brad Sorensen seems like a waste, and Tourek Williams isn't off to a great start.

Without getting to cheat and use hindsight, except in very rare cases, I think it's kind of stupid to criticize any GM for any pick in terms of player evaluation. Criticizing a GM for giving up too much to trade up or not getting enough to trade down is probably fair game. Criticizing a GM for using a pick at the wrong position is too bound up with player evaluation to make much sense unless it's for spending a top ten pick on a kicker or punter or something.

 
No one has stated that they have written Gordon off. Saying the Chargers should have used those picks differently is not equivalent to writing Gordon off. Skippy.
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Worst part about the Gordon pick is watching guys like Matt Jones and David Johnson that could have been had for a 3rd round pick.

 
cstu said:
No one has stated that they have written Gordon off. Saying the Chargers should have used those picks differently is not equivalent to writing Gordon off. Skippy.
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Worst part about the Gordon pick is watching guys like Matt Jones and David Johnson that could have been had for a 3rd round pick.
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David Johnson was never falling out of the 1st round in my draft. I personally would have taken him 1.03 behind only Cooper and Gurley. He went 1.09 but 1.10 was taking him and 1.12 said he would have taken him too.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Just Win Baby said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
Gordon looks great to me. I'm very happy with that pick.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, are there any picks Telesco has made that you aren't happy with?
Click to expand...
If I am allowed to use hindsight, which is totally cheating, I'd say that Marion Grice and Tevin Reese weren't very good picks, and Brad Sorensen seems like a waste, and Tourek Williams isn't off to a great start.

Without getting to cheat and use hindsight, except in very rare cases, I think it's kind of stupid to criticize any GM for any pick in terms of player evaluation. Criticizing a GM for giving up too much to trade up or not getting enough to trade down is probably fair game. Criticizing a GM for using a pick at the wrong position is too bound up with player evaluation to make much sense unless it's for spending a top ten pick on a kicker or punter or something.
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Really?

Are you just a guy who defers to the team as knowing more and thus are not inclined to criticize almost no matter what?

What do you think about the team's effort (or lack thereof) to improve the run defense?

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Just Win Baby said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
Gordon looks great to me. I'm very happy with that pick.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, are there any picks Telesco has made that you aren't happy with?
Click to expand...
If I am allowed to use hindsight, which is totally cheating, I'd say that Marion Grice and Tevin Reese weren't very good picks, and Brad Sorensen seems like a waste, and Tourek Williams isn't off to a great start.

Without getting to cheat and use hindsight, except in very rare cases, I think it's kind of stupid to criticize any GM for any pick in terms of player evaluation. Criticizing a GM for giving up too much to trade up or not getting enough to trade down is probably fair game. Criticizing a GM for using a pick at the wrong position is too bound up with player evaluation to make much sense unless it's for spending a top ten pick on a kicker or punter or something.
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Given that stance should AJ Smith still be the GM? Afterall, it's unfair to judge drafts using hindsight.

 
BoltBacker said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
Just Win Baby said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
Gordon looks great to me. I'm very happy with that pick.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, are there any picks Telesco has made that you aren't happy with?
Click to expand...
If I am allowed to use hindsight, which is totally cheating, I'd say that Marion Grice and Tevin Reese weren't very good picks, and Brad Sorensen seems like a waste, and Tourek Williams isn't off to a great start.

Without getting to cheat and use hindsight, except in very rare cases, I think it's kind of stupid to criticize any GM for any pick in terms of player evaluation. Criticizing a GM for giving up too much to trade up or not getting enough to trade down is probably fair game. Criticizing a GM for using a pick at the wrong position is too bound up with player evaluation to make much sense unless it's for spending a top ten pick on a kicker or punter or something.
Click to expand...
Given that stance should AJ Smith still be the GM? Afterall, it's unfair to judge drafts using hindsight.
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Yes, wouldn't that be too bound up in player evaluation?

 
The draft (and free agency) is hit and miss. I am more willing to criticize priority more than the actual selections.

The Chargers have correctly spent several high picks on front 7 in search of pass rush. None have yet emerged as an elite pass rush threat. We picked Attaochu in round 2 a year ago. He had 2 sacks last year. He's already at 2 sacks. He could really emerge as an elite pass rush threat and turn the defense into an elite defense, which could propel the Chargers into a super bowl.

I like the priority. But there's a bit of luck involved as well. We have to see how guys like Attaochu pan out.

 
Riversco said:
The draft (and free agency) is hit and miss. I am more willing to criticize priority more than the actual selections.

The Chargers have correctly spent several high picks on front 7 in search of pass rush. None have yet emerged as an elite pass rush threat. We picked Attaochu in round 2 a year ago. He had 2 sacks last year. He's already at 2 sacks. He could really emerge as an elite pass rush threat and turn the defense into an elite defense, which could propel the Chargers into a super bowl.

I like the priority. But there's a bit of luck involved as well. We have to see how guys like Attaochu pan out.
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How far back are you going here? Telesco has managed 3 drafts and has spent 3 second round picks on the front 7: Teo, Attaochu, Perryman. There is only 1 guy in that group that can be expected to improve the pass rush.

He has also spent 5th and 6th round picks on front 7, but you said high picks here.

I agree that it is more about priority than the individual players. And Telesco has shown that he does not prioritize drafting linemen. Which is too bad since the lines are the biggest weaknesses of the team.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Riversco said:
The draft (and free agency) is hit and miss. I am more willing to criticize priority more than the actual selections.

The Chargers have correctly spent several high picks on front 7 in search of pass rush. None have yet emerged as an elite pass rush threat. We picked Attaochu in round 2 a year ago. He had 2 sacks last year. He's already at 2 sacks. He could really emerge as an elite pass rush threat and turn the defense into an elite defense, which could propel the Chargers into a super bowl.

I like the priority. But there's a bit of luck involved as well. We have to see how guys like Attaochu pan out.
Click to expand...
How far back are you going here? Telesco has managed 3 drafts and has spent 3 second round picks on the front 7: Teo, Attaochu, Perryman. There is only 1 guy in that group that can be expected to improve the pass rush.

He has also spent 5th and 6th round picks on front 7, but you said high picks here.

I agree that it is more about priority than the individual players. And Telesco has shown that he does not prioritize drafting linemen. Which is too bad since the lines are the biggest weaknesses of the team.
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I did want the Chargers to pursue Jason Pierre Paul if the Giants didn't franchise tag him, but they did.

 
Just Win Baby said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
Just Win Baby said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
Gordon looks great to me. I'm very happy with that pick.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, are there any picks Telesco has made that you aren't happy with?
Click to expand...
If I am allowed to use hindsight, which is totally cheating, I'd say that Marion Grice and Tevin Reese weren't very good picks, and Brad Sorensen seems like a waste, and Tourek Williams isn't off to a great start.

Without getting to cheat and use hindsight, except in very rare cases, I think it's kind of stupid to criticize any GM for any pick in terms of player evaluation. Criticizing a GM for giving up too much to trade up or not getting enough to trade down is probably fair game. Criticizing a GM for using a pick at the wrong position is too bound up with player evaluation to make much sense unless it's for spending a top ten pick on a kicker or punter or something.
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Really?
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Yes, I mean that quite sincerely, and I'm rather confident that I'm correct. (I'll elaborate in the next few days -- I think I can write an interesting post on the subject when I have time -- and you might appreciate the irony of my expressed confidence.)

 
BoltBacker said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
Just Win Baby said:
Maurile Tremblay said:
Gordon looks great to me. I'm very happy with that pick.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity, are there any picks Telesco has made that you aren't happy with?
Click to expand...
If I am allowed to use hindsight, which is totally cheating, I'd say that Marion Grice and Tevin Reese weren't very good picks, and Brad Sorensen seems like a waste, and Tourek Williams isn't off to a great start.

Without getting to cheat and use hindsight, except in very rare cases, I think it's kind of stupid to criticize any GM for any pick in terms of player evaluation. Criticizing a GM for giving up too much to trade up or not getting enough to trade down is probably fair game. Criticizing a GM for using a pick at the wrong position is too bound up with player evaluation to make much sense unless it's for spending a top ten pick on a kicker or punter or something.
Click to expand...
Given that stance should AJ Smith still be the GM? Afterall, it's unfair to judge drafts using hindsight.
Click to expand...
It's reasonable to evaluate years' worth of drafts based on results (using hindsight); just not any individual pick.

But I would certainly not have fired AJ Smith for his performance in the draft. There were plenty of other reasons to fire him, though.

 
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It's still early, but I'm certainly glad we didn't draft Ameer Abdullah in the 2nd as some of you guys were suggesting. He looks terrible.

 
I haven't watched every offensive snap, not by a longshot, but it sure seems to me the offense looks much much better w/ Woodhead on the field. I wonder why McCoy & Co. seem to be fighting the notion of doing that more often.

 
Honest question, why did they pull Ladarius Green out on that crucial 3rd down at the end of the game? It seems like he's not part of their hurry up offense or something.

 
I was at the Q last night, and it was embarrassing how the Steelers continued to pick on Flowers regardless of who he was matched up against. Not sure I have ever seen a game where one guy single handedly was identified and exploited the way Flowers got abused last night.

Considering his awful play in Cincy a few weeks ago, I think it's fair to say that with even decent play from Flowers, the Chargers would be 4-1 right now. Verrett was absolutely dominant last night.

 
The Chargers are allowing 5.7 ypc on the season, worst in the NFL. Overall, only the Browns have had a worse run defense so far this season.

I don't see any shot at the playoffs without radically improving the run defense, and I don't really see any way to do that in season. Tourek Williams is the only guy in the front 7 who has been hurt, and he is no savior against the run, if he even plays this season.

The Chargers beat the 0-5 Lions, beat the 2-3 Browns thanks to an offsides call that the NFL later admitted was a bad call, lost on the road to a 2-2 Vikings team, and lost at home to the Steelers without Roethlisberger and Bryant. This was actually the easiest 5 game stretch in the schedule.

Hoping for a miracle, but expecting more mediocrity. I think this team is likely to finish below .500 at this point.

 
Just Win Baby said:
The Chargers are allowing 5.7 ypc on the season, worst in the NFL. Overall, only the Browns have had a worse run defense so far this season.

I don't see any shot at the playoffs without radically improving the run defense, and I don't really see any way to do that in season. Tourek Williams is the only guy in the front 7 who has been hurt, and he is no savior against the run, if he even plays this season.

The Chargers beat the 0-5 Lions, beat the 2-3 Browns thanks to an offsides call that the NFL later admitted was a bad call, lost on the road to a 2-2 Vikings team, and lost at home to the Steelers without Roethlisberger and Bryant. This was actually the easiest 5 game stretch in the schedule.

Hoping for a miracle, but expecting more mediocrity. I think this team is likely to finish below .500 at this point.
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Oline and Dline, SD probably has the worst combined group in the NFL.

I feel bad for Phil. he is so damn good but between the holding and the awful oline play vs Pitt he just couldn't get it done.

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
I feel bad for Phil. he is so damn good but between the holding and the awful oline play vs Pitt he just couldn't get it done.
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The management should be brought up on criminal charges for how they've failed to put a team around Rivers the back half of his career. At this point, the Benny Hill closing credits theme plays on an infinite loop in my head when I watch the Chargers' offensive and defensive line personnel play. It's a travesty that Joe Flacco has won a championship and Rivers hasn't.

 
So, it's almost time for the yearly tradition of looking towards next-season and hoping for a higher draft pick. :thumbup:

 
Speculative add.....Branden Oliver. They might bench Gordon now that he keeps fumbling the ball. Oliver when given the chance can succeed.

 
The only way to help this defense now is to become run-first again. But I don't see Reich committing to that. We'll probably sling the ball 55 times per game, abandon the run, and give up 30 ppg the rest of the way and lose a lot.

 
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I'd say Telesco should be updating his resume right now, but he'd probably be better off deleting the last 3 years from it. I guess that's a type of update. If the Chargers do end up with a high draft pick, I don't want him anywhere near it.

 
BassNBrew said:
If you guys ask nice, Norv may come back.
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I don't dislike Norv, but I would much rather have Wade Phillips back. Never understood why that guy doesn't get any respect. Because he didn't get BUF to the SB???? WTF?

 
Grading major Chargers offseason moves so far (yes, it is early):

The good:

- Extended Rivers

- Signed Barksdale

- Moved Fluker to G

- Drafted Perryman in 2nd round

- Signed Patrick Robinson

- Replaced Novak with Lambo

The bad:

- Traded up and drafted Gordon in 1st round

- Signed Franklin

- Committed to Watt as starting C

- Drafted Mager in 3rd round

The ugly:

- Ignored NT and DT other than 6th round project Philon, who is now on IR

- Signed Jacoby Jones


Jury's out:
- Was tempted to put resigning Flowers into the bad list, but hoping he can turn it around; I did like the move at the time
- Ditto for Dunlap
- Drafting Emmanuel in 5th round
 
Just Win Baby said:
Jury's out:

- Was tempted to put resigning Flowers into the bad list, but hoping he can turn it around; I did like the move at the time
...
- Drafting Emmanuel in 5th round
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I think it's safe to put the first of those in the bad category and the second in the good. (As safe as the other stuff in those categories, anyway.)

I don't know what's wrong with Flowers, but he's really struggling.

 
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