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2018-19 NBA Thread: Magic Johnson leaves Lakers in order to pursue other jobs to be completely terrible at (2 Viewers)

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Anarchy99 said:
Their whole methodology is pretty complicated. From my limited knowledge and understanding, they come up with a number for each player based on offense and defense. Then they adjust it based on what position they play. The first numbers are based off of historical data both from the player directly and historical norms based on age. Then they came up with the number of minutes they see each player actually being on the court to come up with an adjusted, weighted number.

They really don't love Gordon Hayward, as they don't see him returning to form or playing a huge amount of minutes. He was at +7.3 the past two seasons. Now they only have him at +2.2. That's five wins different. Maybe they know more than the rest of us, but if he is healthy and plays, I don't see someone like Smart being worth more than Hayward and being the 7th most valuable Celtics player.

Overall, I find it an interesting thing to review but personally I am not sold on some of their conclusions. Here's everyone they have worth 6+ wins.

Russell Westbrook - 12.4
James Harden - 11.8
LeBron James - 11.5
Giannis Antetokounmpo - 9.8
Stephen Curry - 9.6
Chris Paul - 9.1
Ben Simmons - 8.8
Nikola Jokic - 8.3
Jimmy Butler - 8.3
Anthony Davis - 8.2
Damian Lillard - 8.1
Victor Oladipo - 7.7
Karl-Anthony Towns - 7.6
Kyle Lowry - 7.5
Draymond Green - 7
Otto Porter Jr. - 7
Kevin Durant - 6.8
Jayson Tatum - 6.5
Kemba Walker - 6.3
Paul George - 6.2
DeMarcus Cousins - 6.0

Not sure in what universe Otto Porter is worth more than Kevin Durant . . .
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Five point deduction for being the police.

 
wikkidpissah said:
would love to have Maaaacus Smaaaat back for an elevenish number, esp if its loaded so that this year isnt the Celts first in the tax (goodbye Dancing Bear?), which is what made them cagey with him all along.
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Well, the C's have only $8.6M to play with before they have to get a visit from the tax man. I think they still want to bring back Larkin as well. Not sure how they could finagle staying below the line. Maybe they don't care about the tax, but they are already over the cap number for next season when you include Kyrie opting in to his option year at $21 million (which is never going to happen unless he has a major injury, and maybe not then). They are on the hook for $63 million between Big Al and Hayward next year. They only have $19 million in space left to get under the tax number for NEXT season.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Well, the C's have only $8.6M to play with before they have to get a visit from the tax man. I think they still want to bring back Larkin as well. Not sure how they could finagle staying below the line. Maybe they don't care about the tax, but they are already over the cap number for next season when you include Kyrie opting in to his option year at $21 million (which is never going to happen unless he has a major injury, and maybe not then). They are on the hook for $63 million between Big Al and Hayward next year. They only have $19 million in space left to get under the tax number for NEXT season.
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I believe adding Wanamaker was the end of Larkin...

 
Huge turn of events here. It's crazy because I thought DeRozan would be a Raptor for life. Either way, I could see Kawai being motivated playing on a team that's likely to bet he #1 Seed. They were the #1 Seed last year and now they arguably got better. So they have an easy path to the Finals if Kawai decides he wants to play ball.

The Raptors lost to Lebron James in the playoffs the last 3 years, I believe. That obstacle is no longer there. With Kawai being an upgrade to DeRozan, if there is any way for them to MAKE the Finals, this is it. You're not going to get a player as good as Kawai for DeRozan from any other team in the league, so in the interest of getting over the hump, this is a great move.

The Raptors have been an above average team for years and a move like this indicates that they're playing for a Championship.

 
Boston said:
I believe adding Wanamaker was the end of Larkin...
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Boston is in a weird situation. They don't really have any disposable contracts to be able to move or a way to free up cap space. Big Al is older and somewhat overpaid, but it will be hard to get a team to take on the last year of his contract next year ($30 million for a 33 year old that is better served as a piece and not a max contract guy). Who knows what Hayward will bring post injury and how he will fit. If he is not the same, the Celts wouldn't be able to move him (not saying they would want to).

There is the current Smart situation and the kids to worry about, who in a couple years will want max money or way more money. And if the Kings don't do anything this year, BOS could end up with another lottery pick. Oh, and they will have to give Kyrie a max deal next year if they have hopes of keeping him. Bottom line, there is a huge tax bill coming in the near future.

If Kyrie doesn't stick around, that only will get BOS to around $17.5 million under the salary cap . . . not enough to get a top guy as a free agent. It will be interesting to see who they can afford, who they let go, and who they might go after.

 
Boston said:
I believe adding Wanamaker was the end of Larkin...
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yeah, i actually thought i heard that officially somewhere.

It was a given in Traitor Danny's plan that the Celts would be hugely stuck in the tax for a few years but, the way he resisted trading Jerseypix™ for the Butlers & PG13s made it appear he was expected by ownership to both put that threshold off as long as he could and have the greatest possible depth when it happened so there would be a payoff to the inevitable 2nd deals and Birdrights contracts, as there was when KD snuck onto the Dubs in the cap-jump year. That and Exceptions deals (plus Jamal+Sactopick© for PG should Kyrie bolt) should keep the Green in pretty good stead.

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Preferring the Clips to the Raps at this point is an incredible take.
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The NBA is getting out of hand. The inmates are running the asylum.

I'd really like to see a guy like Kawaii Leonard get blackballed from the league.

Waa- waa- waa- I don't want to play in San Antonio, a perennial playoff contender. I'm hurt. I don't want to play in Toronto. I want to play in LA.

Honor your contract. Get paid millions to play basketball. It's so annoying...

 
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Stuart Ullman said:
Huge turn of events here. It's crazy because I thought DeRozan would be a Raptor for life. Either way, I could see Kawai being motivated playing on a team that's likely to bet he #1 Seed. They were the #1 Seed last year and now they arguably got better. So they have an easy path to the Finals if Kawai decides he wants to play ball.

The Raptors lost to Lebron James in the playoffs the last 3 years, I believe. That obstacle is no longer there. With Kawai being an upgrade to DeRozan, if there is any way for them to MAKE the Finals, this is it. You're not going to get a player as good as Kawai for DeRozan from any other team in the league, so in the interest of getting over the hump, this is a great move.

The Raptors have been an above average team for years and a move like this indicates that they're playing for a Championship.
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Certainly people can have varying opinions. Yes, Toronto earned the #1 seed last season, and in theory they got better by adding Kawhi if the guy from a couple years ago is the guy they are actually getting. But the Celtics are adding Kyrie and Hayward to a team was five minutes away from the NBA Finals and got huge contributions in the post season from Tatum, Brown, and Rozier.

We'll see how the talking heads look at things. Off the top, I think many analysts would still put BOS at the top of the East, PHI is still improving, IND got better, and MIL still has the Greek Freak. That's about it though, so there are basically 5 teams that are noteworthy in the East (no offense to fans of other teams).

 
Anarchy99 said:
Certainly people can have varying opinions. Yes, Toronto earned the #1 seed last season, and in theory they got better by adding Kawhi if the guy from a couple years ago is the guy they are actually getting. But the Celtics are adding Kyrie and Hayward to a team was five minutes away from the NBA Finals and got huge contributions in the post season from Tatum, Brown, and Rozier.

We'll see how the talking heads look at things. Off the top, I think many analysts would still put BOS at the top of the East, PHI is still improving, IND got better, and MIL still has the Greek Freak. That's about it though, so there are basically 5 teams that are noteworthy in the East (no offense to fans of other teams).
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I think you must have missed the Mario Herzonja signing.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Certainly people can have varying opinions. Yes, Toronto earned the #1 seed last season, and in theory they got better by adding Kawhi if the guy from a couple years ago is the guy they are actually getting. But the Celtics are adding Kyrie and Hayward to a team was five minutes away from the NBA Finals and got huge contributions in the post season from Tatum, Brown, and Rozier.

We'll see how the talking heads look at things. Off the top, I think many analysts would still put BOS at the top of the East, PHI is still improving, IND got better, and MIL still has the Greek Freak. That's about it though, so there are basically 5 teams that are noteworthy in the East (no offense to fans of other teams).
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Don't forget the Wizards added Howard  :oldunsure:  

 
i wouldn't mind using some part of it on someone like Nwaba or Trayveon Graham, but that doesn't seem like what they are looking for.  Maybe Vince Carter for a small amount and save the rest for later?  Seems like with the roster crunch and Kawhi gone, they will probably just save it for later.

 
The Spurs have long been considered this golden, brilliantly run franchise.  How much of a hit have they taken from this whole Leonard situation?

 
Stuart Ullman said:
The NBA is getting out of hand. The inmates are running the asylum.

I'd really like to see a guy like Kawaii Leonard get blackballed from the league.

Waa- waa- waa- I don't want to play in San Antonio, a perennial playoff contender. I'm hurt. I don't want to play in Toronto. I want to play in LA.

Honor your contract. Get paid millions to play basketball. It's so annoying...
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People getting to chose where they work and live their lives is such an affront to everything that is good and right.

 
Juxtatarot said:
The Spurs have long been considered this golden, brilliantly run franchise.  How much of a hit have they taken from this whole Leonard situation?
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Honestly, I don't think it affects the perception of the team that much. Everyone knows Kawhi has forced his way out, and no one really knows why for sure. His group has leaked about a dozen different reasons, and none of them really make sense. Spurs have been class all the way (see Pop's press conference today) and are just playing the cards they've been dealt.

If anything it looks to me like Toronto is taking the PR hit here, trading DeRozan after he has shown them more loyalty than any star player has ever offered that team, and apparently after they assured him he wouldn't be dealt.

 
drpill said:
Honestly, I don't think it affects the perception of the team that much. Everyone knows Kawhi has forced his way out, and no one really knows why for sure. His group has leaked about a dozen different reasons, and none of them really make sense. Spurs have been class all the way (see Pop's press conference today) and are just playing the cards they've been dealt.

If anything it looks to me like Toronto is taking the PR hit here, trading DeRozan after he has shown them more loyalty than any star player has ever offered that team, and apparently after they assured him he wouldn't be dealt.
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I think the Spurs reputation affects Kawhi more than anyone.  If the same scenario plays out with him in Sacramento or New York people would be more likely to blame the organization.  Him wanting out of a successful organization and well regarded coach raises some questions about the player. 

 
drpill said:
I'm excited for this trade, as a Spurs fan. Mostly it's just a sense of relief for the Spurs chapter of the Kawhi saga to be over. DeRozan is about as good as I think the Spurs could have hoped to do coming out of this mess, with a player who insisted on killing his trade value so much. The Spurs are not looking to rebuild and with LA, Boston and Philly being so cheap in trade talks I'm glad they found something of value somewhere. DeMar is no Kawhi Leonard but he is a proven scorer with tons of athletic ability and is known for being a hard worker who improves every year. With better coaching he may have a higher ceiling; hopefully he can step it up defensively and Chip can help him find a consistent three point shot.

It's a weird roster for San Antonio; they are sorely lacking defense and three point shooting now. Hopefully they can make another move to round out the lineup and stay genuinely competitive in the west.
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Bah Gawd!  That is Trevor Ariza's music!

 
Tom Hagen said:
Honestly, I'd be worried about adding those guys if the Wizards didn't have such a strong locker room culture.  :thumbup:
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If anything can revive Dwight Howard's career, it's a team with two backcourt stars who don't seem to particularly like each other, a coach with a reputation for leading teams that are less than the sum of their parts, and a lethargic fan base that only displays enthusiasm when they tweet "Fire Ernie" at the owner hundreds of times a day.

 
From Zach Lowe's piece on the Kawhi deal

The Spurs made it clear any deal with Philly would require Ben Simmons or Joel Embiid (likely Simmons), and the Sixers weren't going anywhere near that, league sources say.
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Did they seriously think the Sixers would trade one of those guys for an injured Kawhi that has made it very clear he wants to go to LA at the end of the season.  Billy King doesn't even make that trade.

 
Tom Hagen said:
From Zach Lowe's piece on the Kawhi deal

Did they seriously think the Sixers would trade one of those guys for an injured Kawhi that has made it very clear he wants to go to LA at the end of the season.  Billy King doesn't even make that trade.
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I doubt it, but what are they supposed to do, give him to Philly just because? I'm not surprised those two teams weren't able to come to an agreement. 

 
Hahaha

How bad can it be, you're there 9 months out of the year, half the time you're on the road. The other half you're working out or playing indoors. The rest of that time you're in a very nice house with a gigantic-### furnace. Whenever you go out, you have to occasionally walk from your car to the heated restaurant/Target/laundromat/whatever. Guy needs to grow some hard bark.

Oh and you get to legitimately contend to make the Finals instead of being on a lotto team.

 
You can argue it was a heartless move by the Raptors from the standpoint of DeRozan or some fans but it was unquestionably the right move. 

DeRozan/Lowry aren't getting younger and I don't see any reason to think they would have gotten over the hump this season after multiple disappointments. 

Like someone said, no one else was giving them a player like Leonard for DeRozan. If he shows up and plays it's a huge upgrade. 

If not, the existing core was proven not enough anyway. Kawhi expires after this year, where DeRozan (who I love) is unlikely to be worth more than his contract over the duration of it. Ibaka and Lowry are off the books in 2020 and they kept all their key building blocks and draft picks for beyond there. 

The only argument against it is to be content being a 50 win team that gets bounced in the first couple rounds of the playoffs every season and while I think that kind of sustained goodness is underrated, it's not what Ujiri is going for. 

 
Juxtatarot said:
The Spurs have long been considered this golden, brilliantly run franchise.  How much of a hit have they taken from this whole Leonard situation?
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Why does it hurt the Spurs reputation?  Golden, brilliantly run franchises still require some luck.  

 
Good Posting Judge said:
Hahaha

How bad can it be, you're there 9 months out of the year, half the time you're on the road. The other half you're working out or playing indoors. The rest of that time you're in a very nice house with a gigantic-### furnace. Whenever you go out, you have to occasionally walk from your car to the heated restaurant/Target/laundromat/whatever. Guy needs to grow some hard bark.

Oh and you get to legitimately contend to make the Finals instead of being on a lotto team.
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Toronto is exactly the same climate as what, half the teams in the NBA? 

 
hxperson said:
Really???

The guy had one job to do over the last two seasons (after losing to the Cavs in the ECF) - to beat Lebron in a playoff series.   Not only did he fail to do that, he couldn't even figure out a way to win a single game in those 2 years.
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not saying it was right or wrong, just strange that you would fire a coach of the year without a clear replacement. that is not the sign of a healthy organization. I think most agree it was the right call, but it was a strange chain of events

 
modogg said:
not saying it was right or wrong, just strange that you would fire a coach of the year without a clear replacement. that is not the sign of a healthy organization. I think most agree it was the right call, but it was a strange chain of events
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They hired his lead assistant who revamped the offense and is credited for the development of their young players. How is that not a clear replacement? And not a healthy organization? Coming from a Sixers fan? Really? 

Now I remember why I stay away from here.

 
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Northern Voice said:
You can argue it was a heartless move by the Raptors from the standpoint of DeRozan or some fans but it was unquestionably the right move. 

DeRozan/Lowry aren't getting younger and I don't see any reason to think they would have gotten over the hump this season after multiple disappointments. 

Like someone said, no one else was giving them a player like Leonard for DeRozan. If he shows up and plays it's a huge upgrade. 

If not, the existing core was proven not enough anyway. Kawhi expires after this year, where DeRozan (who I love) is unlikely to be worth more than his contract over the duration of it. Ibaka and Lowry are off the books in 2020 and they kept all their key building blocks and draft picks for beyond there. 

The only argument against it is to be content being a 50 win team that gets bounced in the first couple rounds of the playoffs every season and while I think that kind of sustained goodness is underrated, it's not what Ujiri is going for. 
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I think the writing was on the wall ever since @Chemical X berated DDR on Twitter when he was a rookie.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Like the Raptors did with DeRozan? The guy didn't even make any visits as a free agent because he knew he wanted to stay in Toronto and play his career out with the Raptors.
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Think about it though, it's Kawaii Leonard's fault for what happened to DeRozan. If Kawaii had honored his contract, the Raptors would have honored theirs with DeRozan. Again, the inmates are running the asylum and it's negatively impacting everyone.

Now two players are in places they don't want to be because Kawaii is being a cry baby. He's brought down DeRozan an innocent bystander with him.

 
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Good Posting Judge said:
Hahaha

How bad can it be, you're there 9 months out of the year, half the time you're on the road. The other half you're working out or playing indoors. The rest of that time you're in a very nice house with a gigantic-### furnace. Whenever you go out, you have to occasionally walk from your car to the heated restaurant/Target/laundromat/whatever. Guy needs to grow some hard bark.

Oh and you get to legitimately contend to make the Finals instead of being on a lotto team.
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Bucher is the worst. 

 
modogg said:
not saying it was right or wrong, just strange that you would fire a coach of the year without a clear replacement. that is not the sign of a healthy organization. I think most agree it was the right call, but it was a strange chain of events
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I can see your point in terms of optics. But what is healthier?  Knowing there is a problem and doing nothing about it?  Or recognizing that the status quo is unacceptable and making drastic changes?

 
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