Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Carr has me concerned. That was fugly.
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2022 Las Vegas Raiders (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
Yes they switched out Eluemunor for Munford a couple times and I saw Parham in there for Cotton I believe.
My main takeaways were that when DC doesn’t trust his Oline to give him a clean pocket, he tries to force the ball. The offense seemed a little vanilla but that was to be expected somewhat, except for that weird end around play to Adams that was a disaster.
While the stats on defense didn’t look good (0 sacks and INTs) but they did stop LA at the end of the game a few times to give the offense a couple chances to win.
Overall, the Oline is a serious issue and looks to still be in flux. If they can’t get it figured out it could be long season as Carr plays a lot better when he trusts his line.
Defense did ok. Jones was invisible until the end of the game when he made one good stop on Eckler almost getting a safety. The injuries to Averett and Meohrig could expose the lack of depth in the secondary if they’re serious. We’ll see…
Chaka
Footballguy
They swapped RTs three times I believe.
Chaka
Footballguy
Are you concerned about Joe Burrow?
It's week one, the worst week to draw long term conclusions.
Pretty sure I heard that mentioned during final drive.
I tracked online & only saw final drive. Very poor pocket awareness by Carr on last 2 downs - especially on 3rd when he had plenty of time.
Of course Mack had 3 sacks including game ender.....
Adams is great but 16 targets to 12 combined for Renfrow & Waller - might need to spread more.
3 INTs is brutal - was written above that he had Adams for a TD & underthrew him - don't know about other 2.
On the road, poor protection, 3 INTs & still had ball to win it at end. Feels like missed opportunity & you cannot have those in this division.
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
I am, actually.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Can you really count it as a road game? I bet the stadium was at min 3 to 1 Raiders fans.
Chaka
Footballguy
Jones has maybe two plays. I was deeply concerned when they let Yannick go (Rok was a nice trade though) and replaced him with Vince Evans 2.0 and didn't bring in a high quality backup to keep Jones fresh.
He's 190 years old, he should be a situational player.
OTOH Ferrell actually seemed to be a disrupting factor with his PT.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I didn't see the Raider game but saw most of the Bengal/Steeler game... QB's don't have good games at times and that usually happens against good defenses. I didn't see anything that tells me Burrow should be worried.
I am not surprised that Bosa/Mack had success against us. I suspect that is a large part why Carr struggled. Our Oline must get better but not many teams have what the Dolts have one defense.
Chaka
Footballguy
Hot Sauce Guy
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Two wooden nickels!!! Final offer!
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Raider Injury Report after today game:
-Tre’Von Moehrig (hip)
-Anthony Averett (thumb)
-Denzel Perryman (ankle)
-Andre James (believed to be a concussion he went to the hospital)
-Brandon Bolden (Hamstring)
-DJ Turner (ankle)
-Andrew Billings (undisclosed)
-Tre’Von Moehrig (hip)
-Anthony Averett (thumb)
-Denzel Perryman (ankle)
-Andre James (believed to be a concussion he went to the hospital)
-Brandon Bolden (Hamstring)
-DJ Turner (ankle)
-Andrew Billings (undisclosed)
chad in Indy
Footballguy
Less on Burrows. I think the loss of Higgins early was problematic and having lost much of the offseason with appendectomy and no reps with Hurst. Plus the Pitt/Cincy rivalry always makes for nasty games.
Yeah, I agree. I thought Ya-Sin played pretty well. And Ferrell was making his presence felt.
Carr had one of his worst games in awhile. He’ll be ok only if he stays healthy. The right side of the line has to get better. I’m feeling uncharacteristically positive because even though DC had a bad game the team almost got the win. In seasons past, Carr always needed to play great to get the W.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Carr was awful. Adams is his binky and a grown man QB should not need a binky. I hope it gets better, but man that was a horrible, regressive performance by Derek on so many fronts. I've apologized for dude more then once in the past, but today evidenced the stark contrast between a decent QB (Carr) and an elite one (Herbert). Both were under regular pressure. One kept feeling, escaping and making plays. The other kept getting sacked and making Ints. Scary dichotomy for Raider nation.
That's the downside. Upside is the D kept them alive enough to provide a game‐winning drive attempt. And Adams is as advertised.
That's the downside. Upside is the D kept them alive enough to provide a game‐winning drive attempt. And Adams is as advertised.
Chaka
Footballguy
Carr didn't play the entire preseason either.
It's week one, they were in it to the end and lost a one score game. As expected the offensive line was, is and will be the biggest concern.
ICON211
Footballguy
They definitely changed the RT at least twice.
Healthy scratch
Chadstroma
Footballguy
When the binky is open almost every play (if what I am reading is to be believed) then snuggle up that binky. I mean, if he was forcing it to Adams is one thing but if Adams was open all day long (the highlights.... of course, no helpful being highlights.... that I saw had him open by almost the length of the field) then by all means... feed that man.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Seeing some highlights, 1 INT was trying to force it to Waller whom had defenders on either side and underneath.
ICON211
Footballguy
All three interceptions were on Carr IMO. The first was the one to Waller you just described. The second was on a deep ball to Adams. He beat his man early in the route and the ball was underthrown. Carr throws a beautiful deep ball with touch, but this one needed to be thrown more on a line and it allowed a secondary defender to get involved in the play. The third was a short pass intended for Renfrow that was just a bad decision and the defender was able to cut in front of Renfrow for the int. It was on a second and short and just shouldn't have been thrown.
It was not a good day for Carr. On the opening drive he had Waller for a fairly easy TD, but threw it behind him, he had three interceptions and his pocket awareness was lacking. He did have some really nice throws too though.
Jacobs ran well. He also had a 16 yard gain on a short pass. He was underused in the pass game by Gruden and I fear that will be the case now too with how McDaniels likes to use his RBs. He is a really good receiver and just has the ability to slip or slide past defenders on screens or short passes.
Adams is always open.........always.
Better days ahead.
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kaso
Footballguy
For me the story of the game came down to Mack/Bosa and the Chargers D-line vs our Offensive Line. It was a difference maker. 7 sacks. SeVen!... Come on. What QB wouldn't be frustrated in that situation. Agree the 3 picks were on Carr. I don't think he saw Tranquill drop into coverage in the middle of the field. The ball to Adams was underthrown, maybe he wasn't able to step up on that throw, not sure. And the one to Renfrow was a rushed pass that shouldn't have happened.
The Chargers seemed to neutralize the rush of Crosby and Jones with quick passes, a solid mix of the run game, and better protection. Seemed like Hiebert always had a spot to step up into to avoid the reach of Crosby.
Was very encouraged to see the play of Hobbs in year 2. Need that to to continue.
The Chargers seemed to neutralize the rush of Crosby and Jones with quick passes, a solid mix of the run game, and better protection. Seemed like Hiebert always had a spot to step up into to avoid the reach of Crosby.
Was very encouraged to see the play of Hobbs in year 2. Need that to to continue.
Silver & Black
Footballguy
I have always been a Carr supporter. That said, yesterday's game firmly sets my opinion of him in concrete.
Carr is a good NFL QB. A very good one at that. However, the optics tell me he simply isn't an elite or top tier QB. It has nothing to do with effort or drive or motivation or any of those things. I just think back at how many times I'm screaming at the TV for him to throw the ball away or step up in the pocket.....He just doesn't seem to have that "it" factor when under pressure or in a crowded pocket and he either takes a sack or often throws a horrendous int. It's not all the time, but enough to make me feel he'll always be exactly what he is, a good QB. Not great, at least not in my opinion.
This is just how I feel based on the general optics of what I saw yesterday and overall.
Carr is a good NFL QB. A very good one at that. However, the optics tell me he simply isn't an elite or top tier QB. It has nothing to do with effort or drive or motivation or any of those things. I just think back at how many times I'm screaming at the TV for him to throw the ball away or step up in the pocket.....He just doesn't seem to have that "it" factor when under pressure or in a crowded pocket and he either takes a sack or often throws a horrendous int. It's not all the time, but enough to make me feel he'll always be exactly what he is, a good QB. Not great, at least not in my opinion.
This is just how I feel based on the general optics of what I saw yesterday and overall.
joey
Footballguy
I’m so torn. I love all of our receiving weapons we have now, and it’s always fun to sling the ball around. But Jacobs might be the most underrated RB in the league. The dude runs with power and vision and quicks and always seems to make a little more than what he’s given. Gotta focus on the run game EARLIER in the game to keep the D off balance. I’d love to see a big Jacobs game next week.
This is true. It’s year 9 for Carr, he is who he is by now, he is not an elite talent BUT he can play at an elite level when he has protection. If he doesn’t trust his Oline, he’s a different QB.
Looking around the league yesterday, lots of very good to elite QBs looked very average due to terrible Oline play. Carr,Dak, Burrow, Rodgers and Brady all are playing behind Olines that are dealing with injuries and Brady was the only one to get the win. And even he was only able to muster one TD. Fix the Oline and Carr will play better.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Signing CB Nickell Robey-Coleman
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I am not sure how much of that game was Brady winning it.
My point is bad Oline play makes the best QBs look average
I think you nailed it with the bolded part. Good QB but doesn't seem to have clarity of mind that the true elite QBs have.
The last drive yesterday was evidence of that. He had no pocket presence and fumbled on both of the last two plays. Lucky they got the first one back so at least he had another chance. His history of dumb plays is long. At least twice I have seen him end games by throwing the ball away on 4th down. Just throw it up and hope for something positive to happen. The last play of the playoff game against the Bengals when he had a clean pocket but threw the ball short of the goal line on 4th down, was futher evidence. Even if his reciever would have caught the ball, there was no chance for him to get into the end zone.
On the plus side, over half the league wishes he was their QB
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Week 1: Epic over reactions
Every year, every team all over the league.
Every year, every team all over the league.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
yes. for games in vegas, i am also part of a few lame facebook groups.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
True but the first game did verify the concerns with the o line. Hopefully Carr settles down after the first game of the season and the Raiders build on the positives. There are plenty of games left and time to make adjustments.
Let’s talk about the other 52 players besides Carr, especially the defense. I’ll say it first, holding Herbert and the Chargers to only 24 points is a “win” and a big reason why I woke up with a positive attitude about this team.
The big plays, sacks and INTs were not there, I get it. But they played sound for most of the game. They let Herbert cut loose for a little bit in the 2nd quarter but they held their ground in the 4th quarter thanks to a great play by Hobbs. Crosby had a great stop on 4th down and Jones finally showed up late in the game.
Overall, holding Eckler to only 36 yards rushing and Herbert to 276 yards passing are positive things for this defense to embrace, be proud of and most importantly, build off. It’s early, buts it definitely not the same ‘ol’ Raiders D that would have allowed 380 yds passing and 129 yards rushing and at least 34 points.
The big plays, sacks and INTs were not there, I get it. But they played sound for most of the game. They let Herbert cut loose for a little bit in the 2nd quarter but they held their ground in the 4th quarter thanks to a great play by Hobbs. Crosby had a great stop on 4th down and Jones finally showed up late in the game.
Overall, holding Eckler to only 36 yards rushing and Herbert to 276 yards passing are positive things for this defense to embrace, be proud of and most importantly, build off. It’s early, buts it definitely not the same ‘ol’ Raiders D that would have allowed 380 yds passing and 129 yards rushing and at least 34 points.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
still digesting. it's hard to see everything while at the game.
70/30 raiders fans. i was screaming at them to run the ball. jacobs was getting 4-5 yards every time. carr had happy feet and made a lot of bad throws. that opening drive should have been a TD. i've said it for years, carr has trouble hitting people in stride. especially waller. i was at the other end of the stadium and thought he caught it at first. all of the picks were on carr. renfrow was a non factor. all other wrs did not need to suit up. hollins was wide open a few times.
other than crosby, the d line was owned by the chargers. there was almost zero pressure. certainly nothing from chandler. the TE was open all day long. wide open. that being said, the D did a fairly decent job. other than the TE KILLING them, they shut them down enough, to have a chance at the end of the game. they held the rushing attack in check.
imho, carr and the oline lost this game. mostly carr. and wtf was that end around bs?
70/30 raiders fans. i was screaming at them to run the ball. jacobs was getting 4-5 yards every time. carr had happy feet and made a lot of bad throws. that opening drive should have been a TD. i've said it for years, carr has trouble hitting people in stride. especially waller. i was at the other end of the stadium and thought he caught it at first. all of the picks were on carr. renfrow was a non factor. all other wrs did not need to suit up. hollins was wide open a few times.
other than crosby, the d line was owned by the chargers. there was almost zero pressure. certainly nothing from chandler. the TE was open all day long. wide open. that being said, the D did a fairly decent job. other than the TE KILLING them, they shut them down enough, to have a chance at the end of the game. they held the rushing attack in check.
imho, carr and the oline lost this game. mostly carr. and wtf was that end around bs?
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
100% i was impressed with the D. other than the flash backs to the winning strategy of streaming whatever TE was playing the raiders in the magic footballs, for years! the raiders couldn't cover TEs. hopefully they figure it out
Chadstroma
Footballguy
I don't think we needed the game to verify our concerns. I think we hoped that the inaction to bring in more bodies and to cut Leatherwood loose meant that they had things in control and had confidence in what they were doing with the Oline. This game shot that hope out of the water. In my view, not because they gave up 7 sacks but because they changed the lineup 4 times. I only know of one injury on the line and I don't think he came out (James). That is much more concerning to me as it shows they didn't have confidence and didn't have a gameplan. On the other hand, this Dolt team will wreck NFL Olines game in and game out. As much as I hate to admit it, they are a dang good team and Bosa along with a fresh Mack (he always seems to tear the league up early and slow down as the season goes on) is a powerful pass rushing duo.
We knew the Oline was a weakness. We hoped the team, based on their action/inaction, had a plan they were confident in. We learned they do not.... at least not much confidence.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Hearing Hobbs looks like he made the jump from a great rookie season to being in that top tier elite CB discussion.
Run defense has looked stout from all indications in camp, preseason and dual practice with the Pats. It is concerning to me that neither Jones or Crosby didn't say hi to Herbie all game long but that is one game. My one fear is nagging me now that we got a Jones who is spent. We need that top tier legit threat opposite of Crosby to make a run in this division. It sounds like he was MIA all game long.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
OH! that 5 billion dollar stadium is janky. it was so f'ing hot and miserable. just gross. it's like sitting in a greenhouse. zero breeze. my buddy said to me at one point, "my knees are sweating, never really seen that before" i am not a large man. my front row, 2nd level seat, was so narrow, i had wedge myself into the seat. dude to my left was huge. he over flowed into my seat. i could not lean back without being on top of him. my knee sweating friend, slightly larger man, had to seriously wedge his *** into the seat. we bailed on our seats and went to the club at halftime. we found some empty seats (padded). better, but still not great. i'll need the tickets to be free if i go to another day game there.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Interesting.
Gonna lose a lot of the fair weather LA bandwagon fans with things like that for both the Rams and Dolts.
I am a big guy with a bad back that often gets pains sitting in a lot of chairs and I was nice and comfy with no issues in the Death Star.
LawFitz
Footballguy
This play exemplifies why I am concerned about Carr's performance yesterday. Check out Davonte and Hollins both sitting open for the first down while Carr waits and waits and waits for Renfrow to come open which he never does resulting in Carr's third pick... https://youtu.be/gEK0WAajKvM?t=657
He made terrible reads like this repeatedly yesterday. Even on the TD to Bolden (6:40 in the video), he had a MUCH safer and easier throw to Hollins for the first down that he skipped right past for the higher degree of difficulty timing play to Bolden in the EZ. That was on 3rd down. The TD was nice - a great and beautiful throw in fact - but down 17-3 you take the easy chain-moving play and the fresh set of downs in the RZ. Even when things went right, it was easy to nitpick Carr's decision making.
Carr was regularly laser focused on his first read and couldn't see the rest of the field. Bad QBs look at option 1 only, throw to option 1 regardless. Good QBs look at option 1 and throw to option 3. Great QBs look at option 3 and throw to option 1. Carr was a bad QB yesterday. I've seen him play better. Much better. He needs to see the field better and employ all his options. He has so many of them on every play.
He made terrible reads like this repeatedly yesterday. Even on the TD to Bolden (6:40 in the video), he had a MUCH safer and easier throw to Hollins for the first down that he skipped right past for the higher degree of difficulty timing play to Bolden in the EZ. That was on 3rd down. The TD was nice - a great and beautiful throw in fact - but down 17-3 you take the easy chain-moving play and the fresh set of downs in the RZ. Even when things went right, it was easy to nitpick Carr's decision making.
Carr was regularly laser focused on his first read and couldn't see the rest of the field. Bad QBs look at option 1 only, throw to option 1 regardless. Good QBs look at option 1 and throw to option 3. Great QBs look at option 3 and throw to option 1. Carr was a bad QB yesterday. I've seen him play better. Much better. He needs to see the field better and employ all his options. He has so many of them on every play.
Remember year one in Gruden’s system? It was bad more times than good. Let’s hope we don’t have a repeat of that year. I don’t know a QB that has had to learn so many offenses in such a short time. Not making excuses for Carr (well, maybe a little) but he’s starting over again. There’s lots of changes top to bottom in the organization… AGAIN… Something QBs like like Herbert, Mahomes and Allen don’t have to deal with on a bi-annual basis. Carr is also a byproduct of the organization he plays for. Like someone mentioned earlier in the thread. There’s lots of teams out there who would love to have Carr as their starter. It’s week 1, let’s give him a chance to dive into the playbook.
LawFitz
Footballguy
The above stated, I'm going to put a good amount of the blame on McD as well...
- Where was the schematic help for the OL yesterday?!? Against Bosa and Mack no less! Jumbo formations, chips, screens, quick hitters - I don't recall any of it. Way too many late breaking plays when you know you are terribly mismatched along the line with a jittery QB.
- How do you not establish the run more with Jacobs looking fresh and beastly? Add play action to the missing schematic elements above. And how do you not ride your hoss more as you start gaining momentum in H2 and he's barely cracked ten touches at that point? There's a time for RBBC - that wasn't it.
- WTH was up with the gawd-awful reverse to Adams? The play clearly was designed to block the DE (Bosa) using Waller and Carr. WTF is more like it, actually.
---
It was one game. I'm not panicking just yet. Growth mindset here. The Pats of the last twenty years were notorious for looking clunky to start seasons and then gaining traction, momentum and eventually rings later in those same seasons. The journey has just begun, and I'm optimistic that much/all of my criticisms above can and will turn into learning/growth catalysts for this season and beyond - for Carr, Coach and crew.
- Where was the schematic help for the OL yesterday?!? Against Bosa and Mack no less! Jumbo formations, chips, screens, quick hitters - I don't recall any of it. Way too many late breaking plays when you know you are terribly mismatched along the line with a jittery QB.
- How do you not establish the run more with Jacobs looking fresh and beastly? Add play action to the missing schematic elements above. And how do you not ride your hoss more as you start gaining momentum in H2 and he's barely cracked ten touches at that point? There's a time for RBBC - that wasn't it.
- WTH was up with the gawd-awful reverse to Adams? The play clearly was designed to block the DE (Bosa) using Waller and Carr. WTF is more like it, actually.
---
It was one game. I'm not panicking just yet. Growth mindset here. The Pats of the last twenty years were notorious for looking clunky to start seasons and then gaining traction, momentum and eventually rings later in those same seasons. The journey has just begun, and I'm optimistic that much/all of my criticisms above can and will turn into learning/growth catalysts for this season and beyond - for Carr, Coach and crew.
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LawFitz
Footballguy
Here's one more just to pile on for effect: https://youtu.be/gEK0WAajKvM?t=789
Look at Carr's body language pre and post snap. He has decided he will throw to 3&R no matter what. He completely misses Hollins coming open until it's too late and he doesn't even notice the soft coverage on Davante pre-snap, which left him open at bottom. Both dudes wide open while Carr waits and waits for Renfrow's route to develop. Then once he finally looks at Hollins it's too late, he double clutches and misses Renfrow finally coming open, before getting sacked and fumbling. Fugly.
Brady always makes these plays. Burrow and Herbert regularly make these plays. Carr needs to make these plays.
Look at Carr's body language pre and post snap. He has decided he will throw to 3&R no matter what. He completely misses Hollins coming open until it's too late and he doesn't even notice the soft coverage on Davante pre-snap, which left him open at bottom. Both dudes wide open while Carr waits and waits for Renfrow's route to develop. Then once he finally looks at Hollins it's too late, he double clutches and misses Renfrow finally coming open, before getting sacked and fumbling. Fugly.
Brady always makes these plays. Burrow and Herbert regularly make these plays. Carr needs to make these plays.
Chaka
Footballguy
The Steelers would like to have a word.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Did you watch that game or the highlights? Stillers defense looked incredible until Watt got hurt. That dude is such a monster. He is second only to Donald right now in terms of one-man defensive impact. And I'm not even sure Donald is ahead of him anymore. Minkah was beasting as well. Yesterday's version of Carr and the Raider OL would've been eaten alive.
Chaka
Footballguy
I watched both games actually (I don't really bounce around from game to game. CBS out here had Pitt/Cin in the AM and Raiders/Chargers in the afternoon). TJ is an alien. Like straight up landed on earth from another planet. His real name is Ta-Jel. He's a game wrecker for sure.
But the Chargers defense also looks incredibly talented. Derwin was all over the place, Asante is playing like his father, Bosa is Bosa and most people foolishly thought Mack was in decline despite racking up 6 sacks, a fumble recovery (If you get a sack do you also get a QB hit? Same for TFL? Is a sack also a TFL or are those tracked separately? If not he had 7 and 6 of those respectively) in seven games last season. He was as beastly as ever and looked every bit the part yesterday. Oh, and JC Jackson didn't even play. If Sebastian Joseph-Day turns into a player, and I think he may, the Chargers will have one of the top defenses in the league this season.
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