Matt Waldman
Footballguy
RSP contributing writer Nathan Miller's take on Griffin figuratively and literally not seeing the impending rookie wall.
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Analysis on Robert Griffin in the NFL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Matt Waldman
- Start date
MCguidance
Footballguy
As an owner, great article.
I wonder if Shanihan has had this issue with young QBs before, and what he might do to counteract that? There was no mention of what his own offense/team can do to help him.
I wonder if Shanihan has had this issue with young QBs before, and what he might do to counteract that? There was no mention of what his own offense/team can do to help him.
Hang 10
Footballguy
As outlined and illustrated above, Robert Griffin III has more than a handful of elements that need to be tweaked, adjusted, and acquired over the course of the season, and more likely into the next few seasons before he realizes his full potential. The success he has seen early this season will not continue throughout the year and one can already see a decline in play even if it isn’t evident in the box score just yet.
Whatever you say, Nate. I'll take declining play like yesterday any day of the week.
Whatever you say, Nate. I'll take declining play like yesterday any day of the week.
You know that this article is based on his passing, right? And you also know that RG3's value yesterday came from rushing for a 138 yards and 2 TDs, right? OK.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Do rushing yards count in real and fantasy football? I think they do and the threat of the run is a big reason he's completing over 70% of his passes (1st in the NFL), 2nd in the league in yards passing per attempt and has QB rating over 100 (3rd in the league) as a rookie.
fatness
Footballguy
Not a very good article. I guess the writer has some axe to grind.
The Vikings had little idea what Griffin was going to do yesterday, in week 6. The author, Nathan Miller, seems more interested in criticizing Griffin's supposed 'ego' and criticizing fans of Griffin.
Lousy article.
duaneok66
Footballguy
I think it had some good points. I don't like the puff pieces that fill almost every website. Very little negative stuff is posted. I know why though, people can't handle criticism. I like what he brought to this article, i just think a balanced article would have been better. RG3 is obviously doing something right.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
I think Nathan's article is very balanced. I think the folks criticizing it are only seeing the negative and hate to see anything negative about a player they love. People tend to skip over the qualifiers that state "I like this player, and I think he'll be a terrific player," and don't give it as much weight as the criticism. It's easy to forget the writer likes the player. He's just showing where Griffin will need to improve. Just look at Came Newton last year to this year. The opposition will catch up to him at some point.
Some folks just lose their mind when they see someone point out where a player can get better and behave as if it's crazy to critique him.
I think the information about the ego makes sense, but some folks here have taken the commentary out of context. I totally see how young players can behave as if they are above the team. It isn't always intentional. I don't think he sees Griffin's behavior as intentional, just youthful immaturity that is part and parcel with most young players to some degree.
I agree that the title is hyperbole, but I see the sarcasm right away. Some don't and they see things too black and white. While most of the time it is the writer's responsibility, there are times it is simply the reader's problem. I think that's the case here.
Some folks just lose their mind when they see someone point out where a player can get better and behave as if it's crazy to critique him.
I think the information about the ego makes sense, but some folks here have taken the commentary out of context. I totally see how young players can behave as if they are above the team. It isn't always intentional. I don't think he sees Griffin's behavior as intentional, just youthful immaturity that is part and parcel with most young players to some degree.
I agree that the title is hyperbole, but I see the sarcasm right away. Some don't and they see things too black and white. While most of the time it is the writer's responsibility, there are times it is simply the reader's problem. I think that's the case here.
duaneok66
Footballguy
some good points made - but the title (even if only used to attract attention) is over the top. I don't know if this was directed at me, but I am addressing your points. If you spend a sentence saying "I like the guy", then three paragraphs criticizing him, then I dont think that's balanced. That's like if I spend five seconds praising a student (I'm a teacher) then I spend the next fifteen minutes bashing him.
But like I said, I do like the fact that he pointed out deficiencies in his game, but I would have liked to see a little more praise.
My two cents.
But like I said, I do like the fact that he pointed out deficiencies in his game, but I would have liked to see a little more praise.
My two cents.
The Skins have actually probably held back some of their passing game to better suit RG3's skill set and ability so far. I think as the season progresses, we'll see more wrinkles coming out of the Skins offense. Right now we're seeing a Pistol/read option hybrid offense to get RG3 in his comfort zone. Defenses are surely going to make it a point to make him pay for running those types of plays, so eventually the Skins SHOULD start running a little more traditional stuff to keep him in the game.
Hang 10
Footballguy
You think that was balanced? The entire article was dedicated to the things Griffin does wrong without a mention of why it's working through the first six games. And yes, the title of the article was just a strawman he could knockdown.
Your league doesn't count rushing yards by a quarterback? Or rushings touchdowns?Last I heard, the NFL still counts them, as well. And you realize that the threat of the run helps with the passing game, right?
But I'm sure you had a point somewhere in your incoherent ramblings.
firstseason1988
Footballguy
Sooo....
When should I trade RGIII?
When should I trade RGIII?
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
Yes absolutely balanced. This is what he wrote prior to the criticism:It would be arrogant to not recognize his gifts as an athlete, and an inspiring captain of his offense. Robert Griffin has demonstrated that he is capable of playing at the highest level. He is an accurate passer, an intelligent player, and a super-human athlete. He will likely graduate into the company of elite players in the future, but only after honing his skills at the highest level and upon closer evaluation, this might take longer than many think.If telling the audience that he thinks the player is accurate, intelligent, and super-human athletically with a strong likelihood to develop into an elite player isn't a balanced viewpoint, perhaps you LITERALLY wanted 2500 words devoted to those things. That's just ridiculous. If you can't see the weight in those comments to begin the article then you're missing the point of what a balanced viewpoint should be. If you wanted an exhaustive analysis of a player's complete game, then of course it's not balanced. But this is a piece critiquing two aspects of Griffin's game. The fact he even took the time to qualify early what he thinks of the player overall is very balanced.
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Great article. Sometimes behind the glitter there is some dullness. Remember when rookie QBs were expected to struggle for 2-3 years? He has some glaring areas of possible improvement. Fans should be excited to see that there is room for improvement as he has put on a show so far.
Cutler locked down on primary reads with Shanny. Maybe it is Mike's philosophy?...
Cutler locked down on primary reads with Shanny. Maybe it is Mike's philosophy?...
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
I've watched 2 or 3 of RG3 games. And I notice he has exceptional decision making skills and touch on his passes for a Rookie.
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
I also think it should be noted RG3 is playing without a true WR1 and a pass blocking O-line that is average at best (awesome run blocking). We need to take that into account also.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Good points. He is not exactly working with a stable of excellent targets....and his number 1 (Garcon) is probably going to be limited for the remainder of the season.
Mash
Footballguy
RGIII is a top 10 QB and the only reason the Redskins are 3-3 and not 0-6. You realize they have scored the 3rd most points in football, right Waldman? Right. I don't own RGIII in any league, but I wish I did. As an Eagles fan, I dread the thought of facing this guy 2 times a year for the next 15 years. If the author thinks Cam and RGIII are of the same mental makeup, he obviously is not qualified to be writing articles that you pimp on FBG.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
I think there's no question that Shanahan is limiting the field so Griffin has fewer decisions to make. It's a good strategy for a young quarterback, but if you ask any coach at the highest level of football if he can continue to win for years with that approach the answer will be no. Griffin is doing a fantastic job to start the year. However, as teams begin to hone into scouting reports, I can see Miller's point that Griffin will see more difficult tests to come. However, I don't think poor pass blocking accounts for a player having time to stare done one receiver. I think the game plan to limit his options might, but not poor pass protection. I like Griffin's decisiveness, but it's with a limit scope of data to look at by design. As the team expands his scope of decision making options, it will be important that he continue to develop.
The cool part of the article to me isn't "he needs to get better." That's a given. Showing where Griffin needs to continue working is good critical analysis. He's always taken way too many hits for my taste. But that doesn't mean you can't think a player is good if you criticize him.
Philip Rivers has been an good quarterback for years, but one of his biggest issues is a tendency not to move his feet when in a tight pocket so he can set and throw. I just watched him have this issue early in the MNF game.
The cool part of the article to me isn't "he needs to get better." That's a given. Showing where Griffin needs to continue working is good critical analysis. He's always taken way too many hits for my taste. But that doesn't mean you can't think a player is good if you criticize him.
Philip Rivers has been an good quarterback for years, but one of his biggest issues is a tendency not to move his feet when in a tight pocket so he can set and throw. I just watched him have this issue early in the MNF game.
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
17-22 for 182 is not a fail.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
Of course 17-22 for 182 is not a fail, but arguing that point is a failure to see the point.
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
One of my arguments with this writer is this. If Griffin does in fact stare down his 1st read and not do a good job looking off defenders. Then wouldn't RG3 throw more picks and not spread the ball around to as many WR's as he does currently. And let's not forget the fact he has been playing most of the season without a true WR1. Just saying is all.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
You do realize the writer talked about how good Griffin is and will be, right Mash? Right. Who wouldn't want to own RGIII in a league right now? I agree, but your criticism of the writer's work based on that he offered criticism of a player he says is performing well tells me that you haven't really read the article or haven't read it and thought about that point before reacting to it.
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Matt Waldman
Footballguy
I can't speak for him on that, but I can speak for what I have seen with young quarterbacks. If a quarterback is told to run when he doesn't have his first read open then he's not going to throw a lot of picks. At the same time, your argument is presuming that he's operating from the same formation on the same side of he field rather than having different receivers for different initial reads. I think your presumption needs to be refined a little more. One play he may have Moss to one side. Another play he'll have Garcon. A third play he'll have two tight ends to on side. I think you might want to reconsider that particular aspect of the argument.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Exactly.If Griffin is staring down his receivers why aren't the defenses capitalizing on it? The article does a terrible job of explaining why Griffin has been so effective if his games has so many flaws.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ok, surprised this hasn't been mentioned:
"My (admittedly rudimentary) stopwatch system clocked him at either a 4.3 or a 4.4 for the full length of the play, which is beyond impressive. Knock the method and the full-sprint start all you want, but the reality is that Griffin ran the final 40 yards of his touchdown run in just about four seconds. That's ridiculous."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/20568428/robert-griffin-ran-a-43-40-during-sundays-game-winning-touchdown-run
"My (admittedly rudimentary) stopwatch system clocked him at either a 4.3 or a 4.4 for the full length of the play, which is beyond impressive. Knock the method and the full-sprint start all you want, but the reality is that Griffin ran the final 40 yards of his touchdown run in just about four seconds. That's ridiculous."
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/20568428/robert-griffin-ran-a-43-40-during-sundays-game-winning-touchdown-run
Voice Of Reason
Footballguy
Maybe the writers points are valid, but he does a poor job backing them up.
Griffin has been so effective passing that a few still frames of him looking down the field aren't very convincing.
Griffin has been so effective passing that a few still frames of him looking down the field aren't very convincing.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Yes, I'm sure that's it. He spreads the ball around because every receiver on the team is his first read at some point in the game.
fatness
Footballguy
He's publishing the article October 15, a day after a game where it was obvious to anyone who watched that Griffin had the Vikings guessing for most of the game. In other words, after a game where his assertion that "the defense can tell what Griffin's going to do" looked pretty wrong. Either he didn't watch that game or was too vested in his opinion to notice. I think that's poor. I won't, however, insult your differing opinion by dismissing you as a "hater" or someone who has "lost their mind" or some similar juvenile label.
fatness
Footballguy
You do realize the writer spent over 90% of the article describing deficiencies, and wrote the title to knock down a straw man, right Mark?
Hang 10
Footballguy
Methinks he had this article written before yesterday and published it anyways.The success he has seen early this season will not continue throughout the year and one can already see a decline in play even if it isn’t evident in the box score just yet
Yeah, the Vikes really had his number yesterday.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
Interesting analysis. Watching the games, I can't say that I've noticed it much. I will look for it more next time. If him locking onto receivers is the only bad thing that people are picking up from his film, then that is a good thing for Redskins fans. If this is a trend and Nathan Miller caught it, opposing defensive coordinators have almost assuredly caught it too.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
My apology. I'll rephrase:
I think your take of the situation came across as if you can't see beyond your admiration of Griffin's game to acknowledge that he has things to improve upon while dismissing the writer's initial take that he thinks Griffin will likely develop into an elite player long-term. In that sense I think you lost the sense of perspective he was establishing with the article while also taking this viewpoint of some fans too literally and personally.
I think your take of the situation came across as if you can't see beyond your admiration of Griffin's game to acknowledge that he has things to improve upon while dismissing the writer's initial take that he thinks Griffin will likely develop into an elite player long-term. In that sense I think you lost the sense of perspective he was establishing with the article while also taking this viewpoint of some fans too literally and personally.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I am not arguing anything. All I am stating is what they are doing is currently working. The Skins are currently more competitive than most thought they would be. I also don't think that the staff is too angry that he is completing 70% of his passes with 2 picks through 5 games. He is a rookie. I think this article stems from the fact that everyone has a sudden expectation that a rookie QB should be able to pick up the football and lead his team to victory from day one. He is 6 games into the season and I would hope to God that he has the ability to improve. However so far he has exceeded everyone's expectations.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
Exactly. And what will be interesting is the future weeks where teams now have four games of tape to study and build game plans. I may be wrong about this, but I have heard that many teams are about four games behind in terms of scouting teams. If this is true it would make sense that teams during the early phase of the season aren't going to be as prepared for newer players in the league and wouldn't count on preseason tape to show them much. We'll see. Overall, think it will be fascinating to see if Griffin does hit a wall due to the points Miller mentioned.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
I agree. He's done really well. I also agree with Miller that he has things to improve upon. I'm also interested to see if he hits a wall based on Miller's arguments.
duaneok66
Footballguy
I agree with the basis of this post. Teams will adjust. But I think that the mental makeup of Shanahan/Griffin > Rivera/Cam. Is it even close? I think that RG3 will improve even as DC's get a better read on his play.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
Again, I apologize that I hurt your feelings. Based on your comments I don't think you realize that the point of the article was to criticize aspects of a player's game and not to write that the player is a bad player. I don't think you are seeing the difference. As mentioned above, you can think a player is good, state the players is good, and explain that the focus of the article will be to criticize parts of a player's game. The subject of the article was to pinpoint deficiencies that could hurt the player in the near future as defenses pick up on what he's doing.
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
I think Griffin is somewhat of an easy target for criticism right now based on his quick start. I don't see how his arrow points higher this year, however it is possible to find reasons why he could fall back to earth. Not discrediting the writer, as I think he brings up some valid points. I just think people are going to be putting a target on RG3's back until he falters. And the reminder needs to be he is a rookie who is exceeding expectations with a talent-void team. Love watching him play and hope he can stay healthy and continue to grow.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Not sure anyone said Griffin's game was perfect but there's a difference between pointing out areas he need to improve and claiming he's definitely going "run into a brick wall". Also, the stuff regarding his character and maturity just seem completely out of place. Did Nate miss the report that Griffin actually apologized to his teammates for not being able to finish the Falcons game? Does that sound like a guy that sees himself "above the team"?
jacobo_moses
Footballguy
Well since Matt and this Nate guy who wrote the article see so many flaws of RG3 and apparently know more then Shannahan/Shannahan. 
To speed the process up of his development. I just tweeted the link to the article to RG3. Not that he will read it. But one can only hope. 
To speed the process up of his development. I just tweeted the link to the article to RG3. Not that he will read it. But one can only hope.
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King of the Jungle
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
How did you read all of that into what I posted? Seriously. I just think it was a bad article for the reason I stated. That has nothing to do with you personally or me personally. The guy ignored yesterday's game. No need for you to post something else dismissive like that. If someone wants a breakdown of yesterday's game and Griffin's performance in it, John Keim is a Redskin beat reporter who's not known for overly criticizing or praising any players (or coaches). It's here.
There's good and bad.
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
That is hilarious...only because I thought about doing the same thing! Can't help it as a dynasty owner....Well since Matt and this Nate guy who wrote the article see so many flaws of RG3 an apparently know more then Shannahan/Shannahan.
fatness
Footballguy
Just stop. You write a lot of good stuff. Things like this make you look foolish.
Matt Waldman
Footballguy
I think Griffin's make up his much better, but I do think it is a fair point of comparison to link Griffin with any young quarterback with great athleticism and early success and how those great skills can provide an early advantage but will eventually fade away if the other conceptual skills aren't improved. He also pointed out Elway, Bradshaw, and Young here, so I think locking onto Cam Newton is problematic.
Gandalf
Footballguy
Nice contrarian article that illustrates why RG3 might slow. He might not but I am glad to read something that is constructively critical of him. Maybe he is bird dogging his receivers and if so that is something that I would want to know as an owner. His value is sky high now with people turning down offers for Aaron Rodgers straight up. If this article is right - and only time will tell - then it could be a decent time to trade him. And if the article is wrong, then my guess is that RG3 will figure out a way to fix his shortcomings. Either way I am glad someone is doing this work. Awesome stuff, even if you disagree, it is still awesome.
