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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (1 Viewer)

The Commish said:
I get how it will be spun....reality is, if Hillary is supposedly as good as her supporters suggest, they don't need an outsider like Bernie to "unite" the party.  She should be able to do that on her own.  I'm pretty confident he knew going in he'd either do well, and win, or he'd be the scapegoat for Hillary's shortcomings.  He decided he was ok with that getting into the race in the first place.  I don't think he really gives a #### what people think of him as long as he's true to himself and what he believes so spin away I guess :shrug:   Bottom line is, there's only so many ways to polish that turd, but you can keep searching for new ways if you want.
He won't be the scapegoat if, after she has secured the nomination at the convention, he enthusiastically supports her as the nominee. If Obama had lost in 2008, no one would have blamed Hillary, because she did what she could to help unite the party. People tend to forget that initially something like 30% (maybe more) of her supporters said they would not vote for Obama, but came around in the general election, which they might not have done if Hillary had failed to endorse and campaign for him.
Throwing this scenario out there already suggests otherwise.  She's not entitled to any of his voters' support.  She has to earn them just like anyone else....that's even more true when her surrogates are out there behaving the way they are with all their :hophead:  about Bernie.  If she can't figure out a way to beat Donald freakin' Trump without help from Bernie, that has little to do with him and so much to do with her.  Only her supporters would attempt to argue otherwise.

 
AAAll-Stars said:
DNC is a rigged game folks and now people are seeing it for what it is. The march toward Oligarchy and a false democracy grows every day.
And, yes, big money in politics is a huge problem. We've got to reduce its influence. Yes, special interests and lobbyists have disproportionate access to the corridors of power. But, contrary to what we hear sometimes from both the left as well as the right, the system isn’t as rigged as you think, and it certainly is not as hopeless as you think. Politicians care about being elected, and they especially care about being reelected. And if you vote and you elect a majority that represents your views, you will get what you want. And if you opt out, or stop paying attention, you won’t. It’s that simple. (Applause.) It's not that complicated.
From Obama's commencement speech at Rutgers.

 
AAAll-Stars said:
DNC is a rigged game folks and now people are seeing it for what it is. The march toward Oligarchy and a false democracy grows every day.
And, yes, big money in politics is a huge problem. We've got to reduce its influence. Yes, special interests and lobbyists have disproportionate access to the corridors of power. But, contrary to what we hear sometimes from both the left as well as the right, the system isn’t as rigged as you think, and it certainly is not as hopeless as you think. Politicians care about being elected, and they especially care about being reelected. And if you vote and you elect a majority that represents your views, you will get what you want. And if you opt out, or stop paying attention, you won’t. It’s that simple. (Applause.) It's not that complicated.
From Obama's commencement speech at Rutgers.
Obama missed a huge opportunity to lead by example here.

 
Honest opinion - I think Clinton and her team think they can pick off enough GOP voters, by positioning her as a right-of-center candidate on economics and foreign policy, that they will make up for the loss of the liberal left of the Democratic Party.

They may be right - she is further right on those issues than most republicans, albeit she remains safely on the left on key social issues (when public opinion also supports that position).

 
Honest opinion - I think Clinton and her team think they can pick off enough GOP voters, by positioning her as a right-of-center candidate on economics and foreign policy, that they will make up for the loss of the liberal left of the Democratic Party.

They may be right - she is further right on those issues than most republicans, albeit she remains safely on the left on key social issues (when public opinion also supports that position).
It's a really interesting strategy and it might work. Run as a conservative knowing that the liberal wing won't swing right.

The crazy thing is...Donald Trump is both the best and worst guy to do that to. Any other candidate and it work, the problem is Trump isn't a conservative.

 
Honest opinion - I think Clinton and her team think they can pick off enough GOP voters, by positioning her as a right-of-center candidate on economics and foreign policy, that they will make up for the loss of the liberal left of the Democratic Party.

They may be right - she is further right on those issues than most republicans, albeit she remains safely on the left on key social issues (when public opinion also supports that position).
She probably can, but it does nothing but piss off the left for future elections.  Of course, she probably doesn't care about that (she'll be President which is her goal) but if the dems can't see that ignoring people who are actually willing to identify with the party still, is a bad idea, they deserve the destiny they are headed towards.

 
Throwing this scenario out there already suggests otherwise.  She's not entitled to any of his voters' support.  She has to earn them just like anyone else....that's even more true when her surrogates are out there behaving the way they are with all their :hophead:  about Bernie.  If she can't figure out a way to beat Donald freakin' Trump without help from Bernie, that has little to do with him and so much to do with her.  Only her supporters would attempt to argue otherwise.
You could have said the exact same thing about Obama in 2008. If he couldn't figure out a way to beat freakin' John McCain without help from Hillary, it would have more to do with him than her. But, the bottom line is that he couldn't have won without her support and she would have been the scapegoat if she didn't support him and McCain had been elected.  Bernie has been around long to know that and won't make that mistake.

 
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Bernie is taking this all the way to the convention because he knows Hillary is a big phony and he doesn't trust her..  plus the fact that she is under active investigation by the FBI..   he's going to have some momentum too!

 
Bernie is taking this all the way to the convention because he knows Hillary is a big phony and he doesn't trust her..  plus the fact that she is under active investigation by the FBI..   he's going to have some momentum too!
He believes he's the best person for the job.  We'll find out what he thinks of her by the convention.

 
Bernie is taking this all the way to the convention because he knows Hillary is a big phony and he doesn't trust her..  plus the fact that she is under active investigation by the FBI..   he's going to have some momentum too!
Bernie is taking this all the way to the convention because he has been in politics for a long time and this is the most he has been able to voice his opinion and have people listen to it across the country.

 
You could have said the exact same thing about Obama in 2008. If he couldn't figure out a way to beat freakin' John McCain without help from Hillary, it would have more to do with him than her. But, the bottom line is that he couldn't have won without her support and she would have been the scapegoat if she didn't support him and McCain had been elected.  Bernie has been around long to know that and won't make that mistake.
Bernie does not like Trump, and he does not want a Trump presidency.  But Bernie does not give a #### about the DNC, particularly with the way they have comported themselves throughout this election.  Bernie understands that the problems in todays politics covers both parties.

 
What if neither represent my views?
Neither perfectly represent my views but on the most important issues I lean Democrat so I vote that way. 

Considering the two parties have divided up every issue I find it strange if you can't find a side you prefer more than the other.  If you aren't happy with a Party's stance on certain issues then work to elect candidates who don't support them.

 
You could have said the exact same thing about Obama in 2008. If he couldn't figure out a way to beat freakin' John McCain without help from Hillary, it would have more to do with him than her. But, the bottom line is that he couldn't have won without her support and she would have been the scapegoat if she didn't support him and McCain had been elected.  Bernie has been around long to know that and won't make that mistake.
Am I suppose to pretend that the differences in Hillary and Obama were as significant as those between Hillary and Bernie?  What's the point in using these two instances when they are so far apart in circumstance?  And that's just addressing the winning over of Bernie's support.  That doesn't even address your belief that somehow Trump and McCain are similar enough to attempt to make the situations similar enough to compare.  Hell, saddling McCain with Palin doesn't reduce the hurdle down to Trump levels.  This is the lowest bar ever set by the GOP in my lifetime.

 
Neither perfectly represent my views but on the most important issues I lean Democrat so I vote that way. 

Considering the two parties have divided up every issue I find it strange if you can't find a side you prefer more than the other.  If you aren't happy with a Party's stance on certain issues then work to elect candidates who don't support them.
What a novel idea. Let me make sure I understand your very complex and groundbreaking suggestion that no one has ever posted here about seventy million times before. You mean like send money to/work for Bernie Sanders?

 
What a novel idea. Let me make sure I understand your very complex and groundbreaking suggestion that no one has ever posted here about seventy million times before. You mean like send money to/work for Bernie Sanders?
Yes, but when your candidate comes close but doesn't win don't take your ball and go home.

 
You could have said the exact same thing about Obama in 2008. If he couldn't figure out a way to beat freakin' John McCain without help from Hillary, it would have more to do with him than her. But, the bottom line is that he couldn't have won without her support and she would have been the scapegoat if she didn't support him and McCain had been elected.  Bernie has been around long to know that and won't make that mistake.
Comparing Trump to McCain in this way is ridiculous.

 
Everything coming out of Nevada is so disgusting it's actually depressing. I've been following this Jon Ralston on Twitter and it's been something else. 

 
They may be right - she is further right on those issues than most republicans, albeit she remains safely on the left on key social issues (when public opinion also supports that position).
You're a smart dude, which makes it mystifying when you post nonsense like this. 

 
Everything coming out of Nevada is so disgusting it's actually depressing. I've been following this Jon Ralston on Twitter and it's been something else. 
Poking the bear typically isn't smart.  I thought this quote was interesting:

“I think maybe Nevada is a little bit of a wake-up call” to party leaders, warned West Virginia Democratic Vice Chairman Christopher Regan. "If every state chair is not talking about how we can make sure that doesn't happen in our state, [for] those that have yet to go, you're just not doing your job."
I'm not sure it's a wakeup call at all.  They seem to be well on their way down the same path the GOP has taken despite the example provided and the apparent evidence before them.  People are getting educated on the process and they don't like what they see.

 
There's no way to prevent this at other state conventions. It's pretty much a temper tantrum. Clinton won Nevada. Bernie played the caucus system perfectly at the initial allocation conventions and then the Clinton team came back at the state convention to make sure their initial win was preserved.

Also it's not quite clear what they are fighting for when calling Boxer a #####, shouting down everyone they disagree with, and then vandalizing a building after the fact. I don't think that's the revolution Senator Sanders had in mind. 

 
There's no way to prevent this at other state conventions. It's pretty much a temper tantrum. Clinton won Nevada. Bernie played the caucus system perfectly at the initial allocation conventions and then the Clinton team came back at the state convention to make sure their initial win was preserved.

Also it's not quite clear what they are fighting for when calling Boxer a #####, shouting down everyone they disagree with, and then vandalizing a building after the fact. I don't think that's the revolution Senator Sanders had in mind. 
Of course there is.  Have simple, straight forward rules.  Voting isn't a complicated concept, but our politicians have had their hands in this cookie jar for a really long time muddling around and manipulating parts here and there to benefit themselves.  

 
You're a smart dude, which makes it mystifying when you post nonsense like this. 
It may be mystifying but it is to be expected.

If you go back and read the 8 months before the Iowa Caucus in the Hillary thread, he will see that he posted nonsense like this on a daily basis.

 
Of course there is.  Have simple, straight forward rules.  Voting isn't a complicated concept, but our politicians have had their hands in this cookie jar for a really long time muddling around and manipulating parts here and there to benefit themselves.  
Well I should say there's nothing to be done now since we are in the 8th inning of a #### game. 

Give me whatever the primary is that requires you to register as a D on the day of the election (semi open? Whatever it is called) and give it to me in every single state across the board. 

Delegates are allocated proportionally precisely according to that vote in each state. Get rid of Supers altogether. 

I think I just solved all of our problems. 

 
Of course there is.  Have simple, straight forward rules.  Voting isn't a complicated concept, but our politicians have had their hands in this cookie jar for a really long time muddling around and manipulating parts here and there to benefit themselves.  
Well I should say there's nothing to be done now since we are in the 8th inning of a #### game. 

Give me whatever the primary is that requires you to register as a D on the day of the election (semi open? Whatever it is called) and give it to me in every single state across the board. 

Delegates are allocated proportionally precisely according to that vote in each state. Get rid of Supers altogether. 

I think I just solved all of our problems. 
And get rid of the caucus concept....that's worse than voter ID imo.

 
I love that Bernie has doubled down on the Nevada fracas:

“It is imperative that the Democratic leadership, both nationally and in the states, understand that the political world is changing and that millions of Americans are outraged at establishment politics and establishment economics. The people of this country want a government which represents all of us, not just the 1 percent, super PACs and wealthy campaign contributors.

“The Democratic Party has a choice. It can open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change – people who are willing to take on Wall Street, corporate greed and a fossil fuel industry which is destroying this planet. Or the party can choose to maintain its status quo structure, remain dependent on big-money campaign contributions and be a party with limited participation and limited energy.

“Within the last few days there have been a number of criticisms made against my campaign organization. Party leaders in Nevada, for example, claim that the Sanders campaign has a ‘penchant for violence.’ That is nonsense. Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence. Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals. But, when we speak of violence, I should add here that months ago, during the Nevada campaign, shots were fired into my campaign office in Nevada and apartment housing complex my campaign staff lived in was broken into and ransacked.

“If the Democratic Party is to be successful in November, it is imperative that all state parties treat our campaign supporters with fairness and the respect that they have earned. I am happy to say that has been the case at state conventions in Maine, Alaska, Colorado and Hawaii where good discussions were held and democratic decisions were reached. Unfortunately, that was not the case at the Nevada convention. At that convention the Democratic leadership used its power to prevent a fair and transparent process from taking place. Among other things:


  • The chair of the convention announced that the convention rules passed on voice vote, when the vote was a clear no-vote. At the very least, the Chair should have allowed for a headcount.
  •  
  • The chair allowed its Credentials Committee to en mass rule that 64 delegates were ineligible without offering an opportunity for 58 of them to be heard. That decision enabled the Clinton campaign to end up with a 30-vote majority.
  •  
  • The chair refused to acknowledge any motions made from the floor or allow votes on them.
  •  
  • The chair refused to accept any petitions for amendments to the rules that were properly submitted.



“These are on top of failures at the precinct and county conventions including trying to depose and then threaten with arrest the Clark County convention credentials chair because she was operating too fairly.”

 
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You liked that Sinn? Yikes. It was completely tone deaf and disappointing. Half of his bullet points are complete bull#### per Jon Ralston on the ground in Nevada.

 
You liked that Sinn? Yikes. It was completely tone deaf and disappointing. Half of his bullet points are complete bull#### per Jon Ralston on the ground in Nevada.


When the bully is taunting you - punch him in the nose.

he has 4 bullet points - which ones are BS according to Ralston?

 
Point 1. Could have asked for a headcount but what's the point when the number of delegates on hand for each candidate is already known. Merely a formality. 

Point 2. 64 of his delegates were not eligible because they were not registered Ds on May 1 or didn't provide information to document they reside in Nevada, DOB, etc. 8 of them were seated when they provided proof of these very simple requirements. Most if not all of the ones that were not seated didn't even show up to the convention so it's not like they were standing at the door with a D registration card and being barred entry. 

Points 3 and 4. I believe was just general disorganization. But I find that they are the only compelling points. Maybe some that knee the rules could have helped them out since they clearly were bewildered. 

Bottom line here is that Sanders filled 70-80% of his slate while Clinton filled 95%. She out organized him after being shown up as the first round of conventions. 

https://www.ralstonreports.com/blog/sour-grapes-revolution-rocked-paris-hotel

 
I love that Bernie has doubled down on the Nevada fracas:

“It is imperative that the Democratic leadership, both nationally and in the states, understand that the political world is changing and that millions of Americans are outraged at establishment politics and establishment economics. The people of this country want a government which represents all of us, not just the 1 percent, super PACs and wealthy campaign contributors.

“The Democratic Party has a choice. It can open its doors and welcome into the party people who are prepared to fight for real economic and social change – people who are willing to take on Wall Street, corporate greed and a fossil fuel industry which is destroying this planet. Or the party can choose to maintain its status quo structure, remain dependent on big-money campaign contributions and be a party with limited participation and limited energy.

“Within the last few days there have been a number of criticisms made against my campaign organization. Party leaders in Nevada, for example, claim that the Sanders campaign has a ‘penchant for violence.’ That is nonsense. Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence. Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals. But, when we speak of violence, I should add here that months ago, during the Nevada campaign, shots were fired into my campaign office in Nevada and apartment housing complex my campaign staff lived in was broken into and ransacked.

“If the Democratic Party is to be successful in November, it is imperative that all state parties treat our campaign supporters with fairness and the respect that they have earned. I am happy to say that has been the case at state conventions in Maine, Alaska, Colorado and Hawaii where good discussions were held and democratic decisions were reached. Unfortunately, that was not the case at the Nevada convention. At that convention the Democratic leadership used its power to prevent a fair and transparent process from taking place. Among other things:


  • The chair of the convention announced that the convention rules passed on voice vote, when the vote was a clear no-vote. At the very least, the Chair should have allowed for a headcount.
  •  
  • The chair allowed its Credentials Committee to en mass rule that 64 delegates were ineligible without offering an opportunity for 58 of them to be heard. That decision enabled the Clinton campaign to end up with a 30-vote majority.
  •  
  • The chair refused to acknowledge any motions made from the floor or allow votes on them.
  •  
  • The chair refused to accept any petitions for amendments to the rules that were properly submitted.



“These are on top of failures at the precinct and county conventions including trying to depose and then threaten with arrest the Clark County convention credentials chair because she was operating too fairly.”
Awesome. Bernie is so damn superior to Hillary in pretty much every way. So sad for our country that she is going to drown out his voice. Sucks.

 
No but it shows how disliked HRC is when she has the entire establishment behind her and still can't get people behind her.
Or a lot of people like Bernie more.  I plan on voting for Bernie in California but I have the remaining candidates ranked:

Bernie >>> Hillary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Trump

 
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Sinn may have loved Sanders' statement today, but he's undoing a lot of the good he'd done up until now.  Totally tone deaf and so full of bull#### it might as well have come from Trump.  Disappointing.  I can't find anyone, anywhere outside his own supporters that think what happened in Nevada was kosher or that he's handling the aftermath well.

 
Sinn may have loved Sanders' statement today, but he's undoing a lot of the good he'd done up until now.  Totally tone deaf and so full of bull#### it might as well have come from Trump.  Disappointing.  I can't find anyone, anywhere outside his own supporters that think what happened in Nevada was kosher or that he's handling the aftermath well.
this. Bernie supporters would be howling if the roles were reversed somehow.

 
Or a lot of people like Bernie more.  I plan on voting for Bernie in California but I have the remaining candidates ranked:

Bernie >>> Hillary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Trump
Tr

Sinn may have loved Sanders' statement today, but he's undoing a lot of the good he'd done up until now.  Totally tone deaf and so full of bull#### it might as well have come from Trump.  Disappointing.  I can't find anyone, anywhere outside his own supporters that think what happened in Nevada was kosher or that he's handling the aftermath well.
Sanders doesn't make volital statements.  You can't control individuals.  This isn't a Trump thing.  Plus Nevada is nothing, if things stay status quo, there will be violence by people fed up with greed and how they are being wronged by america.  Said this month's ago. 

 
Sinn may have loved Sanders' statement today, but he's undoing a lot of the good he'd done up until now.  Totally tone deaf and so full of bull#### it might as well have come from Trump.  Disappointing.  I can't find anyone, anywhere outside his own supporters that think what happened in Nevada was kosher or that he's handling the aftermath well.
Not happy with his response:

“Within the last few days there have been a number of criticisms made against my campaign organization. Party leaders in Nevada, for example, claim that the Sanders campaign has a ‘penchant for violence.’ That is nonsense. Our campaign has held giant rallies all across this country, including in high-crime areas, and there have been zero reports of violence. Our campaign of course believes in non-violent change and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals.
Calls harassment violence and then denies reports of said violence. 

 
I don't get his response at all.  How does he think that statement helps him in light of how things went down.  I mean I get that he believes it does, I just can't see what the angle is.

 
What's happening to Bernie is a travesty. The Democrats are not going to let him win. I think it's time we the voters stick it to the establishment.

 

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