CP and Harvin can do everything except be a WR (1 Viewer)

[dschuler]

First of all, I don't want to bash these guys. The two players are often compared to each other and rightfully so. People keep wanting to put these guys into a category that isn't them. They aren't good receivers, they probably aren't even average. But athletically, anyone can see that they are special. Just being a special athlete does not make you great though as they really don't fit the mold of a normal position in the NFL. They aren't comfortable at playing WR, and it's obvious. So they are involved in the offense by getting handoffs and short screens, etc. I actually think this hurts an offense more than it helps the offense. These guys aren't deep threats to anybody. It allows the defense to get on the line of scrimmage and press because how often have you seen CP or Harvin jump up and haul in a ball 50 yards down the field over a safety? Zero. How many hard nosed slants across the middle have these guys taken for first downs knowing they are about the get their bell rung? Exactly. These guys should be thought of like D Hester and less like an elite WR. That's not to say they aren't talented, just not a talented WR.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Harvin is absolutely capable of being a good WR used in the traditional fashion. He's already done it. It's not his fault the Seahawks refuse to use him that way.

Patterson, you may have a point.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Patterson, sure I can buy that as they're obviously disappointed with his downfield ability. Problem on his end is they're not even using him in the non-traditional screen/reverse way. At least he would be providing them something in that case.

Percy on the other hand is absolutely a good downfield WR. As has been pointed out, he's already been that for Minnesota. In college he was the best downfield WR on a team that has 4 other WRs currently playing in the NFL. Seattle isn't using him that way, and that's on them.

 

[mr roboto]

Harvin has caught plenty of slants in the middle of the field in his career.

 

[Army Eye]

For some reason, Seattle thinks they have Patterson, not Harvin

 

[FreeBaGeL]

how often have you seen CP or Harvin jump up and haul in a ball 50 yards down the field over a safety? Zero. How many hard nosed slants across the middle have these guys taken for first downs knowing they are about the get their bell rung? Exactly. These guys should be thought of like D Hester and less like an elite WR. That's not to say they aren't talented, just not a talented WR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ANb3OhJepg&t=3m47s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ANb3OhJepg&t=2m05s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ANb3OhJepg&t=3m00s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ANb3OhJepg&t=3m41s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ANb3OhJepg&t=1m34s

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Simply put...

Cordarrelle Patterson is currently a one trick pony on a team that refuses to use his one trick.

Percy Harvin is a complete WR on a team that uses him like a one trick pony.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Simply put...

Cordarrelle Patterson is currently a one trick pony on a team that refuses to use his one trick.

Percy Harvin is a complete WR on a team that uses him like a one trick pony.

Too tired to find the link, but zimmer crushed CP in the press conference effectively saying they can't throw to someone who isn't open.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Simply put...

Cordarrelle Patterson is currently a one trick pony on a team that refuses to use his one trick.

Percy Harvin is a complete WR on a team that uses him like a one trick pony.

Too tired to find the link, but zimmer crushed CP in the press conference effectively saying they can't throw to someone who isn't open.

Not sure what that has to do with what was quoted..

 

[Run It Up]

Impossible to catch the balls never thrown to you.

 

[Milkman]

Lol 8 targets today. It's time to stop making excuses. Dude is straight pooping on everybody.

 

[dschuler]

Percy Harvin is average.

Never had a 1000 yards receiving.

Never had more than 6 receiving TDs in a season.

Only had one season with 80+ catches.

Since 2010, Percy Harvin has as many fumbles (3) as receptions over 40 yards.

So again, very average. It's nothing against him, but clearly he's not a great receiver.

 

[lod01]

Both need significant upgrades at the QB level if you want WR production. Wilson is simply a great game manager. Passing the ball 40 times is not his gig. It's a rarity when he goes over 30 attempts so there will just not be big WR numbers in Seattle.

Of course, I'm not a fan of either WR. Cut Harvin right off the redraft league last week.

 

[stbugs]

Percy Harvin is average.

Never had a 1000 yards receiving.

Never had more than 6 receiving TDs in a season.

Only had one season with 80+ catches.

Since 2010, Percy Harvin has as many fumbles (3) as receptions over 40 yards.

So again, very average. It's nothing against him, but clearly he's not a great receiver.

Wow, talk about cherry picking. We get it, you drafted him and got burned. I have him in a couple leagues, but via keepers, so only burned an 11th/13th on him. I would have liked more, but I think Wilson and the game plan is holding him back. No idea why. They are idiots and now they are 3-2 idiots.

That said, he has only had 3 complete seasons in his career. In those first 3 years, he has 790, 868 and 967 receiving yards. Those are not very average WR #s for the first 3 seasons of a WR in the NFL. He also has 6, 5 and 6 receiving TDs. Not great, but certainly again not average. Of course, you are also conveniently ignoring his almost 600 yards and 3TDs rushing his first three years. So, he has easily averaged over 1000 yards and around 7 TDs rushing/receiving his 3 fully healthy years. You may say that rushing doesn't count, but every touch he gets rushing is going to take an opportunity away from receiving.

Also, you conveniently left out 2012, where in only 9 games, he had 62-677. He got hurt in week 9, so ignoring that 2-10, pro-rated, he is at 120-1334-6TDs and 144-2TDs rushing, which isn't average last time I checked. If you want to discount that, then let's look at the second half of 2011 where in his third year Harvin seemed to "get it" as a WR in his third year. He had 56-633-5TDs and 160-1TD rushing. Seems like 2012 was the same pace as the second half of 2011 showing that it wasn't a fluke and that he was way above average as a WR.

Unfortunately, injuries derailed him and he certainly isn't being used like he was in Minny, where he averaged over 7 receptions a game once he got it.

 

[HULLOBUDMAN]

Honestly, I am trying not to hit the panic button but it is tough. I thought last week was going to be a decent indicator that they would use him more with the TDs that were called back but after watching yesterday's game, I am not sure. I have a short bench in the league that I own him and have great depth at WR (when Megatron is healthy). I am trying to sell him for a sack of cheeseburgers based on name recognition, but no one is buying. Seriously condsidering dumping him to the WW.

Anyone been able to get anything for him?

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

cant start either guy

 

[thatguy]

IMO Harvin is a hold or a buy. Patterson is a sell. Speaking mostly dynasty here for Patterson as you're not likely to get much for him redraft. Harvin is a hold or a buy in both.

 

[mrnick33]

This thread seems like bait for Harstad to come in and drop some statistical boom on OP. That said its obvious Sea off is somewhat struggling but Harvin still holds plenty of dynasty value.

 

[nastynate]

Patterson is a drop in redraft. No sense in trying to play him that 1 in 5 game where he goes off.

Better off going with guys like Malcolm Floyd or Justin Hunter, who at least offer some level of floor, albeit a low one.

 

[Leonidas]

Patterson certainly isn't a good WR at this point in his career. We should have expected that though. You have to be able to run routes and get open. It's not like you can magically beam the ball to somebody "in space" just because you want to.

Harvin isn't that good of a WR. He's a great athlete but he isn't that good of a WR and every year people make all kinds of excuses for why he isn't a fantasy WR1 instead of just admitting that he he had one year where the stars aligned and it isn't happening again

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Harvin isn't that good of a WR. He's a great athlete but he isn't that good of a WR and every year people make all kinds of excuses for why he isn't a fantasy WR1 instead of just admitting that he he had one year where the stars aligned and it isn't happening again

He finished as WR7 in 2011 and was WR3 in 2012 through half a season before getting injured.

 

[ThePittbully]

Simply put...

Cordarrelle Patterson is currently a one trick pony on a team that refuses to use his one trick.

Percy Harvin is a complete WR on a team that uses him like a one trick pony.

Too tired to find the link, but zimmer crushed CP in the press conference effectively saying they can't throw to someone who isn't open.

And yet the run screens to Jarius Wright

 

[ThePittbully]

IMO Harvin is a hold or a buy. Patterson is a sell. Speaking mostly dynasty here for Patterson as you're not likely to get much for him redraft. Harvin is a hold or a buy in both.

Why would you sell Patterson in dynasty? If you have him you likely invested a decent amount, and nothing has really changed. If you drafted him thinking he'd be an elite WR1 in less than two seasons you are either much to optimistic or somewhat stupid. We knew he couldn't run routes when he came out

 

[LawFitz]

Patterson was playing hurt this past weekend after dinging his hip the week prior. Percy had three TDs called back last week. A lot of hyperbole in this thread. Watch Patterson's UT highlight reel if you think he can't catch or play WR. We all know what Percy can do.

 

[PhantomJB]

The issue is with the coaches at least as much as the players.

Norv is a very good OC but also quite traditional. MIN will likely be drafting a traditional X receiver in the VJax/J.Gordon mold in 2015. Really don't see CP being successful as long as he plays under Norv and Zimmer. Sell or be prepared to hold for quite some time.

Carroll has a clear idea of how he wants to utilize Harvin and emphasizes him in the game plan but not yet found success. Percy is still wildly talented and will get there eventually. Buy/hold.

Guys like CP and Percy with unique skills require the right coaches. Jimmy Graham was an innovation under Sean Payton and would likely be much more pedestrian under, say, Tom Coughlin. Reggie Bush did not find success until he went to Miami/Detroit. Danny Woodhead was JAG until Whisenhunt/McCoy got hold of him.

 

[chad in Indy]

I agree that Harvin is a hold at this point. He's proven capable of putting up points and do believe he is able of handling a true WR role. The entire Seattle offense looked bad yesterday, so I don't think you can put that on him. I would like to see Seattle use him more on deep crosses, but that's the difference between real football and fantasy football. It just isn't in Seattle's game script to be that aggressive. Has the possibility to change over next couple weeks if Seattle's defense continues to slide.

I won't defend Patterson. He clearly doesn't get open on a regular basis. I think yesterday's coach outburst was a reality check. Up until now, the responses have been politically correct, but it's apparent the coaches are done making excuses (tired of being asked about Patterson's lack of use) and putting the responsibility back on Patterson's shoulders. Yes, he breaks free here and there and gets missed by the QB, but you can't blame the QB for not looking his direction when it isn't normal for him to create separation.

 

[LawFitz]

I won't defend Patterson. He clearly doesn't get open on a regular basis. I think yesterday's coach outburst was a reality check. Up until now, the responses have been politically correct, but it's apparent the coaches are done making excuses (tired of being asked about Patterson's lack of use) and putting the responsibility back on Patterson's shoulders. Yes, he breaks free here and there and gets missed by the QB, but you can't blame the QB for not looking his direction when it isn't normal for him to create separation.

Zimmer's outburst was unwarranted. I watched all of the 8 "targets" he received this past week. He only dropped one catchable ball and even that one was a tough grab, stretching out on a shallow cross. The other targets were all awful, either blocked, tipped, intercepted or badly missed.

That said, CP looked hurt. Didn't have his normal explosion on his kick return and when making cuts in general. Who knows how long the bad hip will linger, and that alone could derail any remaining 2014 value. They played it off after last week's game, but he admitted to not being 100% after this week's. He certainly didn't look it.

 

[chad in Indy]

I won't defend Patterson. He clearly doesn't get open on a regular basis. I think yesterday's coach outburst was a reality check. Up until now, the responses have been politically correct, but it's apparent the coaches are done making excuses (tired of being asked about Patterson's lack of use) and putting the responsibility back on Patterson's shoulders. Yes, he breaks free here and there and gets missed by the QB, but you can't blame the QB for not looking his direction when it isn't normal for him to create separation.

Zimmer's outburst was unwarranted. I watched all of the 8 "targets" he received this past week. He only dropped one catchable ball and even that one was a tough grab, stretching out on a shallow cross. The other targets were all awful, either blocked, tipped, intercepted or badly missed.

That said, CP looked hurt. Didn't have his normal explosion on his kick return and when making cuts in general. Who knows how long the bad hip will linger, and that alone could derail any remaining 2014 value. They played it off after last week's game, but he admitted to not being 100% after this week's. He certainly didn't look it.

Even removing yesterday's game, I haven't seen Patterson be able to consistently beat press coverage or create separation via good route running. He constantly gets hung up at the LOS or gets thrown off his route by the corner. I don't think him being less than 100% has to do with these flaws.

His technique just isn't good. Maybe in a year or two, but you never know. Some WR just never grasp the intricacies involved.

 

[thatguy]

IMO Harvin is a hold or a buy. Patterson is a sell. Speaking mostly dynasty here for Patterson as you're not likely to get much for him redraft. Harvin is a hold or a buy in both.

Why would you sell Patterson in dynasty? If you have him you likely invested a decent amount, and nothing has really changed. If you drafted him thinking he'd be an elite WR1 in less than two seasons you are either much to optimistic or somewhat stupid. We knew he couldn't run routes when he came out

Why would I sell? Because a lot of people still believe he has the potential to be a true WR1, and thus he has significant trade value. I don't. Which is why I don't own him to begin with.

 

[dschuler]

Percy Harvin is average.

Never had a 1000 yards receiving.

Never had more than 6 receiving TDs in a season.

Only had one season with 80+ catches.

Since 2010, Percy Harvin has as many fumbles (3) as receptions over 40 yards.

So again, very average. It's nothing against him, but clearly he's not a great receiver.

Wow, talk about cherry picking. We get it, you drafted him and got burned. I have him in a couple leagues, but via keepers, so only burned an 11th/13th on him. I would have liked more, but I think Wilson and the game plan is holding him back. No idea why. They are idiots and now they are 3-2 idiots.

That said, he has only had 3 complete seasons in his career. In those first 3 years, he has 790, 868 and 967 receiving yards. Those are not very average WR #s for the first 3 seasons of a WR in the NFL. He also has 6, 5 and 6 receiving TDs. Not great, but certainly again not average. Of course, you are also conveniently ignoring his almost 600 yards and 3TDs rushing his first three years. So, he has easily averaged over 1000 yards and around 7 TDs rushing/receiving his 3 fully healthy years. You may say that rushing doesn't count, but every touch he gets rushing is going to take an opportunity away from receiving.

Also, you conveniently left out 2012, where in only 9 games, he had 62-677. He got hurt in week 9, so ignoring that 2-10, pro-rated, he is at 120-1334-6TDs and 144-2TDs rushing, which isn't average last time I checked. If you want to discount that, then let's look at the second half of 2011 where in his third year Harvin seemed to "get it" as a WR in his third year. He had 56-633-5TDs and 160-1TD rushing. Seems like 2012 was the same pace as the second half of 2011 showing that it wasn't a fluke and that he was way above average as a WR.

Unfortunately, injuries derailed him and he certainly isn't being used like he was in Minny, where he averaged over 7 receptions a game once he got it.

Injuries are part of the game and if you can't stay on the field you can't help your team win. People don't get awards for what they would be projected to do, they get them for getting on the field and producing. I don't have either one in any of my leagues because they are overrated. And your take on rookie WRs not producing as rookies has become a thing of the past. Keenan Allen broke 1000 yards last year as a rookie. Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Larry Fitz, and AJ Green all had good numbers as rookies as well. I could go on and on all day. Kelvin Benjamin doesn't look too bad this year do he? Exactly. I don't even know why you would bring up rookie numbers either, Percy Harvin is in his sixth season. He should be in the prime of his career. At some point you have to say the fault is on the person. Is six years in the NFL not enough time to learn how to play WR? You brought up rushing stats but didn't read my post, which was that these guys are great athletes but not good WRs.

 

[dschuler]

Patterson was playing hurt this past weekend after dinging his hip the week prior. Percy had three TDs called back last week. A lot of hyperbole in this thread. Watch Patterson's UT highlight reel if you think he can't catch or play WR. We all know what Percy can do.

What can Percy do? What has he done as a WR in the NFL besides take handoffs, return kicks, and sit on the sideline due to injury more than a backup QB?

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Patterson was playing hurt this past weekend after dinging his hip the week prior. Percy had three TDs called back last week. A lot of hyperbole in this thread. Watch Patterson's

I think you need to read up on the number of games Harvin has actually missed due to anything other than the couple of freak, serious injuries he's had. Even during the frustrating migraine days, he hardly ever missed games. I'm not going to blame a guy for totally unrelated, freak injuries that have caused him to miss games.

 

[dschuler]

Patterson was playing hurt this past weekend after dinging his hip the week prior. Percy had three TDs called back last week. A lot of hyperbole in this thread. Watch Patterson's

So he is playing games and not putting up numbers? You can't have it both ways. You can't say he doesn't put up numbers because he is injured and then say he actually doesn't miss many games. Bottom line is he doesn't produce

 

[HittinHard]

Start Harvin in a natural WR position and throw to him.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Patterson was playing hurt this past weekend after dinging his hip the week prior. Percy had three TDs called back last week. A lot of hyperbole in this thread. Watch Patterson's

He has produced when healthy, before being on the Seahawks who are using him in a moronic way. That was my point. He's put together a season and a half of fairly elite production.

 

[Jerry Curl]

Patterson, sure I can buy that as they're obviously disappointed with his downfield ability. Problem on his end is they're not even using him in the non-traditional screen/reverse way. At least he would be providing them something in that case.

Percy on the other hand is absolutely a good downfield WR. As has been pointed out, he's already been that for Minnesota. In college he was the best downfield WR on a team that has 4 other WRs currently playing in the NFL. Seattle isn't using him that way, and that's on them.

The Seahawks much rather throw to Luke Willson with the game on the line. I have never been so shocked of that lack of use of a play maker in my history in fantasy football. They trade for him and pay him but dont use him. As you said, that is on the coaching staff and even Russell Wilson, no one else.

 

[need2know]

You know the week you sit harvin he is going to go off. Could happen this week in stl dome

 

[Thunderlips]

If Harvin is such a great WR, what's the explanation from SEA in regards to not utilizing him in that manner? I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here as I think that Harvin is a great talent....but I don't believe that SEA would have this potential top tier WR and not utilize him. Does SEA know something about his skillset/talent level/ability that we don't?

 

[Jerry Curl]

You know the week you sit harvin he is going to go off. Could happen this week in stl dome

I just acquired him as a throw in in one league, but int he league I have had him all season he has been benched since week 1. He has been getting some opportunities, but no where near enough. When they do get him involved they cant stop from committing a penalty on the play.

 

[Jerry Curl]

If Harvin is such a great WR, what's the explanation from SEA in regards to not utilizing him in that manner? I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here as I think that Harvin is a great talent....but I don't believe that SEA would have this potential top tier WR and not utilize him. Does SEA know something about his skillset/talent level/ability that we don't?

Far be it from coaches making bad decisions, right?

 

[Thunderlips]

If Harvin is such a great WR, what's the explanation from SEA in regards to not utilizing him in that manner? I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here as I think that Harvin is a great talent....but I don't believe that SEA would have this potential top tier WR and not utilize him. Does SEA know something about his skillset/talent level/ability that we don't?

Far be it from coaches making bad decisions, right?

It's not like we're talking about the Raiders here. SEA has done a pretty good job of acquiring and utilizing quality talent for some time now. Plus, it's not like they didn't specifically target him and pay a fairly high price for him. I don't think they'd be a team to completely whiff on a player whom presumably the entire fantasy football world adores. Thanks for your input.

 

[need2know]

You know the week you sit harvin he is going to go off. Could happen this week in stl dome

I just acquired him as a throw in in one league, but int he league I have had him all season he has been benched since week 1. He has been getting some opportunities, but no where near enough. When they do get him involved they cant stop from committing a penalty on the play.

I am still starting him cause I also am getting his rtn stats and he could very well return a kick for a td before he catches one. But I could def see benching him if you have better options. I don't unfortunately

 

[mr roboto]

If Harvin is such a great WR, what's the explanation from SEA in regards to not utilizing him in that manner? I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here as I think that Harvin is a great talent....but I don't believe that SEA would have this potential top tier WR and not utilize him. Does SEA know something about his skillset/talent level/ability that we don't?

Far be it from coaches making bad decisions, right?

It's not like we're talking about the Raiders here. SEA has done a pretty good job of acquiring and utilizing quality talent for some time now. Plus, it's not like they didn't specifically target him and pay a fairly high price for him. I don't think they'd be a team to completely whiff on a player whom presumably the entire fantasy football world adores. Thanks for your input.

Touchy in here today. We already know Harvin can play traditional WR style. He's done it before. Maybe SEA has a different plan. Maybe he's a half step slow. Maybe he hasn't developed report with Wilson. Maybe lots of things but the conclusion you can't fairly make is that he's not a good receiver. We know he has been for a few years.

 

[Freelove]

If Harvin is such a great WR, what's the explanation from SEA in regards to not utilizing him in that manner? I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here as I think that Harvin is a great talent....but I don't believe that SEA would have this potential top tier WR and not utilize him. Does SEA know something about his skillset/talent level/ability that we don't?

Far be it from coaches making bad decisions, right?

It's not like we're talking about the Raiders here. SEA has done a pretty good job of acquiring and utilizing quality talent for some time now. Plus, it's not like they didn't specifically target him and pay a fairly high price for him. I don't think they'd be a team to completely whiff on a player whom presumably the entire fantasy football world adores. Thanks for your input.

Touchy in here today. We already know Harvin can play traditional WR style. He's done it before. Maybe SEA has a different plan. Maybe he's a half step slow. Maybe he hasn't developed report with Wilson. Maybe lots of things but the conclusion you can't fairly make is that he's not a good receiver. We know he has been for a few years.

What's "tratitional WR style?" You mean downfield? Can't do that in SEA 2014 any more than they could in MIN in 2011.

Why? Neither Ponder nor Wilson has a deep arm. With Ponder, it was dumpoff heaven. Harvin's best season of his career, possibly, and only two downfield receptions the whole season. With Wilson, his downfield successes are almost entirely predicated on tall receivers winning jump balls, unless there's a totally blown coverage. There's a reason Lockette and Kearse have few catches, yet impressive highlight reels. It's because they're put in position where they have to make highlight catches, as part of the gameplan. Percy lacks the size to do that. If he's going to get wide open, it's going to be because he burned a CB on a deep route -- but he hasn't had a QB with the ability to take advantage of that situation since Favre -- which, not coincidentally, in 2010 accounted for almost every big downfield play of his career to date.

Harvin doesn't have the size or the tools to win those battles, and the other two WR's don't have much else. (Reference, if you like, the series of youtube highlight reels posted above, where the downfield "jumpballs" Harvin supposedly proved he can handle were against Hunter Hillenmeyer, and on a fade that any 6'0" WR would have turned into a laugher. He's good, but he's limited in what his body will allow him to do in jump ball situations.

BUT, he's got best-in-league ability to do crazy things with the ball in space. So getting him the ball short and on sweeps and reverses, while letting the bigger, more physical receivers do the dirty work of trying to come down with Wilson's jump balls just makes sense. And the Seahawks do things that make sense, since Pete's a good coach.

None of that is to disparage either Harvin or Wilson. I'd take both over 90% of the players at their positions in the NFL. And all players are limited. Smart playcalling dictates that you use players in ways that maximize their strengths, and minimize their weaknesses. For SEA, that means Wilson isn't going to be taking many downfield shots with Harvin. Alas.

 

[oswizzle]

If Harvin is such a great WR, what's the explanation from SEA in regards to not utilizing him in that manner? I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here as I think that Harvin is a great talent....but I don't believe that SEA would have this potential top tier WR and not utilize him. Does SEA know something about his skillset/talent level/ability that we don't?

Far be it from coaches making bad decisions, right?

It's not like we're talking about the Raiders here. SEA has done a pretty good job of acquiring and utilizing quality talent for some time now. Plus, it's not like they didn't specifically target him and pay a fairly high price for him. I don't think they'd be a team to completely whiff on a player whom presumably the entire fantasy football world adores. Thanks for your input.

Touchy in here today. We already know Harvin can play traditional WR style. He's done it before. Maybe SEA has a different plan. Maybe he's a half step slow. Maybe he hasn't developed report with Wilson. Maybe lots of things but the conclusion you can't fairly make is that he's not a good receiver. We know he has been for a few years.

What's "tratitional WR style?" You mean downfield? Can't do that in SEA 2014 any more than they could in MIN in 2011.

Why? Neither Ponder nor Wilson has a deep arm. With Ponder, it was dumpoff heaven. Harvin's best season of his career, possibly, and only two downfield receptions the whole season. With Wilson, his downfield successes are almost entirely predicated on tall receivers winning jump balls, unless there's a totally blown coverage. There's a reason Lockette and Kearse have few catches, yet impressive highlight reels. It's because they're put in position where they have to make highlight catches, as part of the gameplan. Percy lacks the size to do that. If he's going to get wide open, it's going to be because he burned a CB on a deep route -- but he hasn't had a QB with the ability to take advantage of that situation since Favre -- which, not coincidentally, in 2010 accounted for almost every big downfield play of his career to date.

Harvin doesn't have the size or the tools to win those battles, and the other two WR's don't have much else. (Reference, if you like, the series of youtube highlight reels posted above, where the downfield "jumpballs" Harvin supposedly proved he can handle were against Hunter Hillenmeyer, and on a fade that any 6'0" WR would have turned into a laugher. He's good, but he's limited in what his body will allow him to do in jump ball situations.

BUT, he's got best-in-league ability to do crazy things with the ball in space. So getting him the ball short and on sweeps and reverses, while letting the bigger, more physical receivers do the dirty work of trying to come down with Wilson's jump balls just makes sense. And the Seahawks do things that make sense, since Pete's a good coach.

None of that is to disparage either Harvin or Wilson. I'd take both over 90% of the players at their positions in the NFL. And all players are limited. Smart playcalling dictates that you use players in ways that maximize their strengths, and minimize their weaknesses. For SEA, that means Wilson isn't going to be taking many downfield shots with Harvin. Alas.

Str8 Bro Science

Harvin will get his..... too talented and everyone on his team knows it... Steve Smith isn't a tall WR or TY Hilton

 

[Thunderlips]

If Harvin is such a great WR, what's the explanation from SEA in regards to not utilizing him in that manner? I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here as I think that Harvin is a great talent....but I don't believe that SEA would have this potential top tier WR and not utilize him. Does SEA know something about his skillset/talent level/ability that we don't?

Far be it from coaches making bad decisions, right?

It's not like we're talking about the Raiders here. SEA has done a pretty good job of acquiring and utilizing quality talent for some time now. Plus, it's not like they didn't specifically target him and pay a fairly high price for him. I don't think they'd be a team to completely whiff on a player whom presumably the entire fantasy football world adores. Thanks for your input.

Touchy in here today. We already know Harvin can play traditional WR style. He's done it before. Maybe SEA has a different plan. Maybe he's a half step slow. Maybe he hasn't developed report with Wilson. Maybe lots of things but the conclusion you can't fairly make is that he's not a good receiver. We know he has been for a few years.

Doesn't his usage in SEA indicate that? How can a receiver be great if his team doesn't have an interest in getting him the ball?

 

[Thunderlips]

If Harvin is such a great WR, what's the explanation from SEA in regards to not utilizing him in that manner? I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here as I think that Harvin is a great talent....but I don't believe that SEA would have this potential top tier WR and not utilize him. Does SEA know something about his skillset/talent level/ability that we don't?

Far be it from coaches making bad decisions, right?

It's not like we're talking about the Raiders here. SEA has done a pretty good job of acquiring and utilizing quality talent for some time now. Plus, it's not like they didn't specifically target him and pay a fairly high price for him. I don't think they'd be a team to completely whiff on a player whom presumably the entire fantasy football world adores. Thanks for your input.

Touchy in here today. We already know Harvin can play traditional WR style. He's done it before. Maybe SEA has a different plan. Maybe he's a half step slow. Maybe he hasn't developed report with Wilson. Maybe lots of things but the conclusion you can't fairly make is that he's not a good receiver. We know he has been for a few years.

What's "tratitional WR style?" You mean downfield? Can't do that in SEA 2014 any more than they could in MIN in 2011.

Why? Neither Ponder nor Wilson has a deep arm. With Ponder, it was dumpoff heaven. Harvin's best season of his career, possibly, and only two downfield receptions the whole season. With Wilson, his downfield successes are almost entirely predicated on tall receivers winning jump balls, unless there's a totally blown coverage. There's a reason Lockette and Kearse have few catches, yet impressive highlight reels. It's because they're put in position where they have to make highlight catches, as part of the gameplan. Percy lacks the size to do that. If he's going to get wide open, it's going to be because he burned a CB on a deep route -- but he hasn't had a QB with the ability to take advantage of that situation since Favre -- which, not coincidentally, in 2010 accounted for almost every big downfield play of his career to date.

Harvin doesn't have the size or the tools to win those battles, and the other two WR's don't have much else. (Reference, if you like, the series of youtube highlight reels posted above, where the downfield "jumpballs" Harvin supposedly proved he can handle were against Hunter Hillenmeyer, and on a fade that any 6'0" WR would have turned into a laugher. He's good, but he's limited in what his body will allow him to do in jump ball situations.

BUT, he's got best-in-league ability to do crazy things with the ball in space. So getting him the ball short and on sweeps and reverses, while letting the bigger, more physical receivers do the dirty work of trying to come down with Wilson's jump balls just makes sense. And the Seahawks do things that make sense, since Pete's a good coach.

None of that is to disparage either Harvin or Wilson. I'd take both over 90% of the players at their positions in the NFL. And all players are limited. Smart playcalling dictates that you use players in ways that maximize their strengths, and minimize their weaknesses. For SEA, that means Wilson isn't going to be taking many downfield shots with Harvin. Alas.

Interesting....

 

[Houston turmOiler]

I dont know why Harvin cant catch one or two mid range play action crossing routes a game. It looked lethal in the GB game but I dont see them try it much. Maybe the poor showing and piss poor game plan (10 carries for Lynch when he's getting 6.1 a pop?) will result in some changes and renewed emphasis on getting the playmakers the ball in the right places. Its about the last thing those of us that have held on to Harvin have to hope for before its time to cut ties.

 

[mr roboto]

If Harvin is such a great WR, what's the explanation from SEA in regards to not utilizing him in that manner? I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here as I think that Harvin is a great talent....but I don't believe that SEA would have this potential top tier WR and not utilize him. Does SEA know something about his skillset/talent level/ability that we don't?

Far be it from coaches making bad decisions, right?

It's not like we're talking about the Raiders here. SEA has done a pretty good job of acquiring and utilizing quality talent for some time now. Plus, it's not like they didn't specifically target him and pay a fairly high price for him. I don't think they'd be a team to completely whiff on a player whom presumably the entire fantasy football world adores. Thanks for your input.

Touchy in here today. We already know Harvin can play traditional WR style. He's done it before. Maybe SEA has a different plan. Maybe he's a half step slow. Maybe he hasn't developed report with Wilson. Maybe lots of things but the conclusion you can't fairly make is that he's not a good receiver. We know he has been for a few years.

Doesn't his usage in SEA indicate that? How can a receiver be great if his team doesn't have an interest in getting him the ball?

Not necessarily. See the other possible reasons in my post. I watched him in MN as a Vikes fan with Favre.

 

[barista]

I love the Harvin anxiety. He's a bench stash since you can't trade him for anything at this point in my regular leagues...

But I'm in one league that gives KR/PR-points – make him very valuable so I just traded for him. He's a great buy low in /those types/ of leagues. Even crapping the bed as WR hasn't kept him from being a top-20. If he get's going on offense, he's a steal.