Deangelo Williams (1 Viewer)

[JaYz0618]

Whats everyones take on him ?

I wonder if JStew eats into his carries a little more this year, even with a step back in production, is he a top 10 back ?

He posted 18 Rushing TD's, and a lot of those bigger games came later in the year wen JStew had a role.

He seems to be slipping to the late 2nd round, and that just doesnt seem right to me.

 

[maxwelledison]

A lot of people have pegged Deangelo as a sell-high/low-value pick at this point but I do not agree with that evaluation. In fact, if people continue to dismiss his 2008 he might actually become a bit undervalued (if he starts to fall into the early 2nd round).

My analysis is straightforward: This guy has a good pedigree (1st round and ridiculous college production). He has a solid build and runs with both elusiveness and surprising power/authority. He makes "wow" plays. He has a nose for the endzone. There is no reason to question his durability. He is still young and sitting behind Deshaun Foster for two years has limited his mileage. I think, and have always thought, that he passes the eye test with flying colors.

For all the talk that seems to follow guys like Steven Jackson (who can't stay on the field), I'll take Williams every time.

 

[Shermdog4444]

I expect similar numbers to last year barring an injury. The panther have the same great Run blocking O-line they had last year minus a couple backups. Jonathan Stweart will get smome more carries this year but John Fox is going to stick with the Run game and give the majority of the carries to his veteran back which is Deangelo.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Are we talking redraft or dynasty? I’ll chime in on both.

Redraft: Flat out is going to go way too high. I can’t see him falling out of the top5 unless you are competing in an FBG league because people simply project the numbers from the year before within about 10% up or down.

If you look back on Fox and his coaching you will see that the Panthers have had repeated trips into the top5-10 for rushing attempts so it is not unlikely that if they are successful again this year that both backs will be heavily involved in the offense. Where I think people really need to put the brakes on DeWill is in the TD department. Is he likely to come close to 20 again? I doubt it and I have him right now projected for 250/1250, 30/200, and about 10-12 TD total. Those are not bad stats at all but a far cry from what he piled up a year ago.

JStew will be a factor and I think he will have more of the rushing TDs…DeWill broke the record last year for most TDs beyond 20 yards IIRC…what are the odds he keeps that up? I have Stewart pegged for about 750-1,000 yards, not very many receptions but I think he could see an increase in short yardage TDs and perhaps make a run at 12-15+.

In Dynasty I still am pretty high on DeWill and if Stewart were to go down with an injury then I think DeWill could have a chance to duplicate some of last year’s heroics. I don’t think Stewart would be able to pull off the same feat if he were pushed into the lonely RB1 slot.

 

[Chadstroma]

I echo what most have said here. In my dynasty league, I made a trade giving away my 1st and 2nd round picks along with Maroney to get him. I also have Stewart so that made extra sense for me as well as I have a very deep/young team so I was willing to give up a bit more in not really needing rookies and on top of that, the picks were the last of each round. However, the reason I made the move was that Williams obvioulsy had a great year last year and I see no reason why the approach used last year, which was very effective, will be changed this year. Williams was clearly the #1 guy and Stewart got the craps when healthy. Something else that is good to point out that there were plenty of instances that both players were extremely productive on the same day. I see the Panthers favoring Williams while giving Stewart enough touches to keep Williams healthy and fresh.

 

[JaYz0618]

I echo what most have said here. In my dynasty league, I made a trade giving away my 1st and 2nd round picks along with Maroney to get him. I also have Stewart so that made extra sense for me as well as I have a very deep/young team so I was willing to give up a bit more in not really needing rookies and on top of that, the picks were the last of each round. However, the reason I made the move was that Williams obvioulsy had a great year last year and I see no reason why the approach used last year, which was very effective, will be changed this year. Williams was clearly the #1 guy and Stewart got the craps when healthy. Something else that is good to point out that there were plenty of instances that both players were extremely productive on the same day. I see the Panthers favoring Williams while giving Stewart enough touches to keep Williams healthy and fresh.

I agree, I picked him up at 2.04 in a startup dynasty, and truly feel he is going to be worthy of that slot.They combined for almost 30 rushing td's last season, its hard to imagine that JStew is going to eat all of that up.I understand DWill might lose a few goal line looks, but he is still a safe pick I think.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I think anyone expecting a repeat of last year is asking a whole lot, for several reasons.

1) The pair combined for 2700 yards and 30 TDs last year, I just don't think we can expect to see that kind of production again out of them. We've seen this happen a million times with individual players, but this one is just a bit different because it's two guys. After LTs 31 TD season he regressed to his mean, after SA's 28 TD season he regressed to his mean, after Peyton's 49 TD season he regressed to his mean, etc etc etc. I would be shocked if the Carolina RBs put up anywhere near 30 TDs next year.

2) Jonathan Stewart was a rookie hampered by an injury last year. I expect his share of the pie to increase a bit both because he's no longer a rookie being protected, and because he'll be fully healthy. DeAngelo didn't really go off until after Stewart hurt his hammy. He was still very productive prior to that, but not to the extent we saw down the stretch.

 

[JaYz0618]

I think anyone expecting a repeat of last year is asking a whole lot, for several reasons.1) The pair combined for 2700 yards and 30 TDs last year, I just don't think we can expect to see that kind of production again out of them. We've seen this happen a million times with individual players, but this one is just a bit different because it's two guys. After LTs 31 TD season he regressed to his mean, after SA's 28 TD season he regressed to his mean, after Peyton's 49 TD season he regressed to his mean, etc etc etc. I would be shocked if the Carolina RBs put up anywhere near 30 TDs next year.2) Jonathan Stewart was a rookie hampered by an injury last year. I expect his share of the pie to increase a bit both because he's no longer a rookie being protected, and because he'll be fully healthy. DeAngelo didn't really go off until after Stewart hurt his hammy. He was still very productive prior to that, but not to the extent we saw down the stretch.

The reason i disagree with that is because the majority of Deangelos big games game towards the end of the season, when he really went on the tear. The later part of the season is also when JStew had his big games. I really think there is enough of the run game to go around. He might lose a few td's. But ill take 1500 total yards and 10 td'sTime will tell, but I think Denagelo remains a top 10 back and JStew becomes a very viable option.

 

[ebcpastor2004]

Stewart got the craps when healthy.

This made me laugh...I hate to get the craps when I'm healthy.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Stewart did come out of some of those late games for all or part of the game with injury issues. I know he was on the bench for one of Deangelo's 4 TD games (I had D-Will in my main league). JS has had injury problems for the last 2 years, so you have to wonder if it's going to be a trend.

If JS does show he can stay healthy the Panthers will just let D-Will go at the end of his contract and he'll go take the majority of the carries somewhere else. In other words, even if DW's numbers did slip this year I wouldn't sell him cheap in a dynasty.

Honestly I have to believe Williams' TDs will slip this year just because of the ridiculous number of times Steve Smith got tackled at the 1 yard line last year. It's hard to imagine a repeat.

 

[JaYz0618]

Stewart did come out of some of those late games for all or part of the game with injury issues. I know he was on the bench for one of Deangelo's 4 TD games (I had D-Will in my main league). JS has had injury problems for the last 2 years, so you have to wonder if it's going to be a trend. If JS does show he can stay healthy the Panthers will just let D-Will go at the end of his contract and he'll go take the majority of the carries somewhere else. In other words, even if DW's numbers did slip this year I wouldn't sell him cheap in a dynasty. Honestly I have to believe Williams' TDs will slip this year just because of the ridiculous number of times Steve Smith got tackled at the 1 yard line last year. It's hard to imagine a repeat.

To expect a repeat is ridiculous. But doesnt 1500 total yards and 10 tds make u a stud anyhow ?

 

[SugarNuts]

I think anyone expecting a repeat of last year is asking a whole lot, for several reasons.1) The pair combined for 2700 yards and 30 TDs last year, I just don't think we can expect to see that kind of production again out of them. We've seen this happen a million times with individual players, but this one is just a bit different because it's two guys. After LTs 31 TD season he regressed to his mean, after SA's 28 TD season he regressed to his mean, after Peyton's 49 TD season he regressed to his mean, etc etc etc. I would be shocked if the Carolina RBs put up anywhere near 30 TDs next year.2) Jonathan Stewart was a rookie hampered by an injury last year. I expect his share of the pie to increase a bit both because he's no longer a rookie being protected, and because he'll be fully healthy. DeAngelo didn't really go off until after Stewart hurt his hammy. He was still very productive prior to that, but not to the extent we saw down the stretch.

Dont compare QBs stats with RBs. It just isnt a reasonable comparison. SA and LT were both a little older than DW is, so I think it is very possible he at least comes close to repeating. I would temper expectations a bit, but 1400/12 doesnt seem far fetched to me. Thats still RB1 material if you ask me.

 

[Garts]

I watched these guys real close last year as I had both.

Williams seems to play better with the motivation of a Jonathan Stewart behind him. Stewart is a future franchise back...a Jamal Lewis with more moves and a lower running style and a nose for the goalline...but also the speed to go the distance.

Williams is awesome too...what a combination.

I think Stewart will be the redzone RB though. Williams piled up a ton of 1 yard scores whn Stew was hurt and I almost gurantee those were Stewarts TDS if his hammy was healthy.

But if anything, D-Will showed he could run it in from in close....and showed Fox that if he wanted...Williams can get 'er done from inside the 5.

I see one of them possibly getting traded in a few years when Stewart is due his raise and Williams is due franchise RB money...

I see Williams yardage and TDS slipping...more so the TDS...the yards will fall a bit.

Williams value drops

Stewarts value up.

They needs to find plays to get both of them on the field at the same time.

 

[travdogg]

I watched these guys real close last year as I had both.

Williams seems to play better with the motivation of a Jonathan Stewart behind him. Stewart is a future franchise back...a Jamal Lewis with more moves and a lower running style and a nose for the goalline...but also the speed to go the distance.

Williams is awesome too...what a combination.

I think Stewart will be the redzone RB though. Williams piled up a ton of 1 yard scores whn Stew was hurt and I almost gurantee those were Stewarts TDS if his hammy was healthy.

But if anything, D-Will showed he could run it in from in close....and showed Fox that if he wanted...Williams can get 'er done from inside the 5.

I see one of them possibly getting traded in a few years when Stewart is due his raise and Williams is due franchise RB money...

I see Williams yardage and TDS slipping...more so the TDS...the yards will fall a bit.

Williams value drops

Stewarts value up.

They needs to find plays to get both of them on the field at the same time.

They should also throw more to both of them.

I think this will be a 55-45 split in favor of DeAngelo, with Stewart likely getting more TD's and DeAngelo getting more receptions.

It was wisely pointed that in DeAngelo's 4-TD games, Stewart was injured in both, though he played sparingly against the Giants, he came out altogether against Green Bay.

I can't help but be reminded of Kansas City circa 2004-2005 with this Panthers running game. I see no reason why both backs can't be top-15, but I doubt either will be top-5 as long as the the other is healthy. If either of them get hurt, I EXPECT the survivor to be the #1 RB.

 

[Brutis]

I watched these guys real close last year as I had both.Williams seems to play better with the motivation of a Jonathan Stewart behind him. Stewart is a future franchise back...a Jamal Lewis with more moves and a lower running style and a nose for the goalline...but also the speed to go the distance.Williams is awesome too...what a combination.I think Stewart will be the redzone RB though.

Thats what I thought last year, didnt happen. DWill was very good around the goal line.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I echo what most have said here. In my dynasty league, I made a trade giving away my 1st and 2nd round picks along with Maroney to get him. I also have Stewart so that made extra sense for me as well as I have a very deep/young team so I was willing to give up a bit more in not really needing rookies and on top of that, the picks were the last of each round. However, the reason I made the move was that Williams obvioulsy had a great year last year and I see no reason why the approach used last year, which was very effective, will be changed this year. Williams was clearly the #1 guy and Stewart got the craps when healthy. Something else that is good to point out that there were plenty of instances that both players were extremely productive on the same day. I see the Panthers favoring Williams while giving Stewart enough touches to keep Williams healthy and fresh.

I agree, I picked him up at 2.04 in a startup dynasty, and truly feel he is going to be worthy of that slot.They combined for almost 30 rushing td's last season, its hard to imagine that JStew is going to eat all of that up Carolina will equal those numbers again.

I understand DWill might lose a few goal line looks, but he is still a safe pick I think.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I think anyone expecting a repeat of last year is asking a whole lot, for several reasons.1) The pair combined for 2700 yards and 30 TDs last year, I just don't think we can expect to see that kind of production again out of them. We've seen this happen a million times with individual players, but this one is just a bit different because it's two guys. After LTs 31 TD season he regressed to his mean, after SA's 28 TD season he regressed to his mean, after Peyton's 49 TD season he regressed to his mean, etc etc etc. I would be shocked if the Carolina RBs put up anywhere near 30 TDs next year.2) Jonathan Stewart was a rookie hampered by an injury last year. I expect his share of the pie to increase a bit both because he's no longer a rookie being protected, and because he'll be fully healthy. DeAngelo didn't really go off until after Stewart hurt his hammy. He was still very productive prior to that, but not to the extent we saw down the stretch.

Get that man a mic...great posting

 

[gianmarco]

I posted this in another thread but feel it's worth repeating.

Let me add something else for some of you to consider, particularly the ones saying DeAngelo is going to fall off this list:The following are 2 lists:List of guys with 18+ rushing TDs in a single season (from pro-football reference):1. LaDainian Tomlinson (27) 28 2006 SDG2. Priest Holmes (30) 27 2003 KANShaun Alexander (28) 27 2005 SEA4. Emmitt Smith (26) 25 1995 DAL5. John Riggins+ (34) 24 1983 WAS6. Terrell Davis (26) 21 1998 DENPriest Holmes (29) 21 2002 KANEmmitt Smith (25) 21 1994 DALTerry Allen (28) 21 1996 WASJoe Morris (25) 21 1985 NYG11. Larry Johnson (26) 20 2005 KAN12. Chuck Muncie (28) 19 1981 SDGEarl Campbell+ (24) 19 1979 HOUJim Taylor+ (27) 19 1962 GNB15. Spec Sanders (29) 18 1947 NYYDeAngelo Williams (25) 18 2008 CARLaDainian Tomlinson (26) 18 2005 SDGMarshall Faulk (27) 18 2000 STLEmmitt Smith (23) 18 1992 DALGeorge Rogers (28) 18 1986 WASEric Dickerson+ (23) 18 1983 RAMHere is the list of players who have averaged 5.4 ypc or higher with over 200 carries1 Jim Brown rb 1963 27 7 14 291 1863 6.40 12 303.102 Barry Sanders rb 1997 29 9 16 335 2053 6.13 11 319.803 O.J. Simpson rb 1973 26 5 14 332 2003 6.03 12 279.304 Jim Brown rb 1960 24 4 12 215 1257 5.85 9 212.105 Barry Sanders rb 1994 26 6 16 331 1883 5.69 7 264.606 Adrian Peterson rb 2007 22 1 14 238 1341 5.63 12 238.907 James Brooks rb 1989 31 9 16 221 1239 5.61 7 208.508 Eric Dickerson rb 1984 24 2 16 379 2105 5.55 14 306.409 DeAngelo Williams rb 2008 25 3 16 274 1518 5.54 18 283.9010 Clinton Portis rb 2002 21 1 16 273 1508 5.52 15 289.2011 O.J. Simpson rb 1975 28 7 14 329 1817 5.52 16 362.3012 Clinton Portis rb 2003 22 2 13 290 1591 5.49 14 274.5013 Walter Payton rb 1977 23 3 14 339 1852 5.46 14 308.1014 Leroy Kelly rb 1966 24 3 14 209 1141 5.46 15 246.7015 Marshall Faulk rb 1999 26 6 16 253 1381 5.46 7 314.9016 Robert Smith rb 1997 25 5 14 232 1266 5.46 6 188.3017 Frank Gore rb 2006 23 2 16 312 1695 5.43 8 272.0018 Jim Taylor rb 1962 27 5 14 272 1474 5.42 19 272.00Take a very good look at both of those lists. You're looking at a collection of a lot of HOF's on that list and some other very, very good RB's. DeAngelo's #'s weren't just pretty good, they were spectacular given the fact he was sharing time. On those 2 lists, there are only 4 guys that were able to accomplish both feats in their careers:M. FaulkE. DickersonJim TaylorDeAngelo Williams2 of those guys are already in the HOF (Dickerson, Taylor) and Faulk is a lock when he's eligible. Now, I'm not saying he's going to run for 1500 yds and score 20 TDs again, but for those of you thinking he's going to fall off, I'd take a closer look at those lists and what he was able to accomplish. You don't perform like that without talent. If he were to fall off, he'd pretty much be the 1st guy to do it after putting up the numbers he did. I think too many people are writing off DeAngelo's 2008 as a "fluke" and I personally don't think THOSE kind of totals he put are "fluke totals". Stewart may be good and he's gonna get his share of touches, but make no mistake that DeAngelo is the #1 RB in Carolina and he's going to get his touches and I'm pretty sure he's going to excel with them. DeAngelo was a 1st round pick himself just 3 short years ago and he actually performed quite well during his 1st 2 years as well despite having limited touches due to the coaching staff.

 

[simey]

If JS does show he can stay healthy the Panthers will just let D-Will go at the end of his contract and he'll go take the majority of the carries somewhere else.

That's questionable. DeAngelo has two seasons left on his contract, and a lot can happen in two years. If John Fox is still around, I can see him offering DeAngelo big money if DeAngelo continues to play at a high level. Fox likes having two good RB's, and he loves to pound the ball. DeAngelo and Stewart have also become very good friends, and enjoy playing together. They created their own website and call themselves Double Trouble. Of course the NFL is a business, and anything can happen.

 

[FavreCo]

I watched these guys real close last year as I had both.Williams seems to play better with the motivation of a Jonathan Stewart behind him. Stewart is a future franchise back...a Jamal Lewis with more moves and a lower running style and a nose for the goalline...but also the speed to go the distance.Williams is awesome too...what a combination.I think Stewart will be the redzone RB though.

Thats what I thought last year, didnt happen. DWill was very good around the goal line.

There is no redzone RB in Carolina. Anyone who watched their games knows that if one of the guys is in and hot he takes it until they score UNLESS he has a huge run and is tired. Only then does the other guy in and take the TD. It happened to both guys last year.

 

[Mainevent]

Everyone is worried about JStew taking carries away from DWill, but the balance keeps both fresh, and if the Carolina run game remains as good as it was last year, teams are again going to have a tough time with these two.

Why do people value Chris Johnson more than DWill? I don't understand the disparity, both RBs have shown they can succeed in a RBBC. Other than Bloom (who has him at 5 and CJ at 7), the other two FBGs who updated their rankings have him at 11, and CJ at 5/4.

I have DWill in dynasty, and it's impossible to trade him at market value. Even slightly lower than market value, no way he get's 20TDs again next year, but as posted earlier, 10-12 and 1500 combined yards is very plausible.

 

[travdogg]

Everyone is worried about JStew taking carries away from DWill, but the balance keeps both fresh, and if the Carolina run game remains as good as it was last year, teams are again going to have a tough time with these two.

Why do people value Chris Johnson more than DWill? I don't understand the disparity, both RBs have shown they can succeed in a RBBC. Other than Bloom (who has him at 5 and CJ at 7), the other two FBGs who updated their rankings have him at 11, and CJ at 5/4.

I have DWill in dynasty, and it's impossible to trade him at market value. Even slightly lower than market value, no way he get's 20TDs again next year, but as posted earlier, 10-12 and 1500 combined yards is very plausible.

Receiving ability is probably the top reason. DeAngelo is a decent pass catcher, but Caroilna doesn't use him often in the passing game and there is no reason to expect that to change.CJ3 is a very good receiver and all signs point to his role in that part of the offense growing substantially larger.

Also, Jonathan Stewart is a much better RB than LenDale White so while Stewart's role will likely only get bigger or stay the same, White best hope is that his role stays the same and likely it will get smaller.

In the end, some of it is gut feel and I just feel much better about Johnson becoming an elite RB than D-Will continuing to be one.

 

[gonzobill5]

Everyone assumes that 2008 was his peak and that its all downhill from here. I for one think that he could not only match his numbers from last year, but potentially surpass them. Check out how little Carolina threw to their backs last year as compared to previous years. Williams is very good at catching the ball out of the backfield. I could easily see him at 20 total tds, 2000 total yards, and 50 receptions. Please, let him fall to round 2 - just like everyone was letting him fall to round 5 or later last year.

 

[Brutis]

Everyone assumes that 2008 was his peak and that its all downhill from here. I for one think that he could not only match his numbers from last year, but potentially surpass them. Check out how little Carolina threw to their backs last year as compared to previous years. Williams is very good at catching the ball out of the backfield. I could easily see him at 20 total tds, 2000 total yards, and 50 receptions. Please, let him fall to round 2 - just like everyone was letting him fall to round 5 or later last year.

Looking at some recent dynasty drafts Dwill is going rd2 while Jstew is going in rd3. I think the value pick is Deangelo by far.

 

[The Karate Kid]

D-Will is 20 pounds heavier and seems more capable to "carry the load" than CJ. With no real WR in Tenn more teams are gonna put 8-9 in the box when CJ lines up where as with Steve Smith you can not do such a thing. After 2 seasons, D-Will has not fumbled the ball once and has shown every skill set to be a pro-bowl player on a yearly basis.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I watched these guys real close last year as I had both.Williams seems to play better with the motivation of a Jonathan Stewart behind him. Stewart is a future franchise back...a Jamal Lewis with more moves and a lower running style and a nose for the goalline...but also the speed to go the distance.Williams is awesome too...what a combination.I think Stewart will be the redzone RB though.

Thats what I thought last year, didnt happen. DWill was very good around the goal line.

There is no redzone RB in Carolina. Anyone who watched their games knows that if one of the guys is in and hot he takes it until they score UNLESS he has a huge run and is tired. Only then does the other guy in and take the TD. It happened to both guys last year.

I was going to say the same thing. They weren't pulling either RB at the goal line unless they were tired.

 

[travdogg]

D-Will is 20 pounds heavier and seems more capable to "carry the load" than CJ. With no real WR in Tenn more teams are gonna put 8-9 in the box when CJ lines up where as with Steve Smith you can not do such a thing. After 2 seasons, D-Will has not fumbled the ball once and has shown every skill set to be a pro-bowl player on a yearly basis.

From the games I watched both Carolina and Tennessee faced 8-man fronts pretty much all season, the Titans even saw the rarely seen 9-man front a surprisingly large part of the time.

 

[Matt Waldman]

Regardless of what anyone has to say about which way Carolina will go with Williams or Stewart, its easy to say this is probably one of the most difficult fantasy issues to navigate in the early rounds of a 2009 draft.

I'd hate to have to make a decision this early.

Williams numbers should slip, but it has nothing to do with his skill and more to do with Stewart's skill. Williams will make a worthwhile fantasy starter, but I'm not worth a top five pick unless Stewart regresses or gets hurt again. Williams is a worthwhile dynasty player because of the potential for either him or Stewart to demand a trade if in the next two years one player feels they aren't getting used enough to help the team win, which is a definite possibility.

Williams might be that guy that you really don't want to draft in the top five, but might not be there with picks 9-12 in the first round. Skill-wise, he's a top-five pick. Situation? I don't think he'll repeat.

 

[On The Rocks]

I love the prospects for both these RB to be within 2 TD's (+/-) of what they had last year. The biggest news was the resigning of Otah. Goodness their OLine is a beautiful thing....and a coach that loves to run the ball?

 

[FavreCo]

I love the prospects for both these RB to be within 2 TD's (+/-) of what they had last year. The biggest news was the resigning of Otah. Goodness their OLine is a beautiful thing....and a coach that loves to run the ball?

One of the real keys to RB success. They have a fantastic OL.

 

[omally]

I love the prospects for both these RB to be within 2 TD's (+/-) of what they had last year. The biggest news was the resigning of Otah.

I think you mean they resigned Gross. Otah was a rookie last year.

 

[JamesTheScot]

I watched these guys real close last year as I had both.Williams seems to play better with the motivation of a Jonathan Stewart behind him. Stewart is a future franchise back...a Jamal Lewis with more moves and a lower running style and a nose for the goalline...but also the speed to go the distance.Williams is awesome too...what a combination.I think Stewart will be the redzone RB though.

Thats what I thought last year, didnt happen. DWill was very good around the goal line.

There is no redzone RB in Carolina. Anyone who watched their games knows that if one of the guys is in and hot he takes it until they score UNLESS he has a huge run and is tired. Only then does the other guy in and take the TD. It happened to both guys last year.

I think that's the story. The guy who gets there gets the TD. I don't see much TD specialization. The fact that Williams proved he can carry it on the goal-line alleviates the need to have a specialist come in to do that for him.What's unusual is that you have two guys that look so different but yet both have complete games they bring to the table. Both have good top end speed. Both can run with power between the tackles and pick up the short, tough yards. Both can catch the ball well. There running styles are different, but both guys can do anything you'd reasonably expct them to do and both are complete 3 down backs.I think you've got the makings of a Jacobs/Ward type split where they trade off whole series instead of doing a down-and-distance specialization.

 

[JamesTheScot]

I love the prospects for both these RB to be within 2 TD's (+/-) of what they had last year. The biggest news was the resigning of Otah. Goodness their OLine is a beautiful thing....and a coach that loves to run the ball?

One of the real keys to RB success. They have a fantastic OL.

I'm amazed at how so many people can acknowledge that Denver was able to get anyone to rush for 1200 yards bu yet overlook how important the OL is.

I think Carolina can rush as well as a team as they did last year. The only question in my mind is how the carries are split.

 

[Chadstroma]

Stewart got the craps when healthy.

This made me laugh...I hate to get the craps when I'm healthy.

Maybe one day I will learn to proof read before I post. Until then.....

 

[Biabreakable]

I love the prospects for both these RB to be within 2 TD's (+/-) of what they had last year. The biggest news was the resigning of Otah. Goodness their OLine is a beautiful thing....and a coach that loves to run the ball?

One of the real keys to RB success. They have a fantastic OL.

I'm amazed at how so many people can acknowledge that Denver was able to get anyone to rush for 1200 yards bu yet overlook how important the OL is.

I think Carolina can rush as well as a team as they did last year. The only question in my mind is how the carries are split.

Well it was a one year turnaround for the Oline and a risky trade to get Otah. The Panthers linemen personel went through a lot of changes including changing the zone blocking scheme to a more drive blocking scheme. It would be good to see this Oline repeat last years performance but that would take a good amount of luck.I agree they will alternate series. 2 to 1 ratio in favor of Williams most likely with a change to the hot hand in the 2nd half. Schedule should be more challenging this year.

 

[whitewizard]

there is one thing many people are not taking into account. john fox hates deangelo williams because he does not look to hit people first, and instead jukes away fom the defender. williams is a strong RB and i have seen him display his power and i am sure fox has noticed that as well. my reasoning when williams first came in he was getting over some injury issues, fine i do not mind he was a rookie there was some reason to not let him run around too much. what i did have a problem with was that fox was completely stubborn in not giving williams the ball more while foster was hurt.

in 06 williams played in 13 games, started 2, had a 121 touches, for 501 yards, coming to a 4.1 YPC. foster that year started/played in 14 games, had 227 touches, for 897 yards, coming to a 4.0 YPC.

recap of rookie year: while playing in 1 less game, williams had 100 less carries, coming to about 400 yards less. granted not a big difference but with a kid who was producing about as much as your vet i would think you would want to save his legs and use the kid a bit more, but rookie year so i give fox a bit of a slide.

in 07: williams played in 16 games, started 0, had 144 carries, gained 717 yards, with a 5.0 YPC. foster in the meantime started all the games, had 247 carries, gained 876 yards, for a 3.5 YPC.

recap of 2nd year: while single game performances and overall team execution does determine play call and personel decision. when your starter can only out produce your backup by about 100 yards with more than 100 carries something is wrong. fox never did anything about it except draft another rookie to be a pounder to take the place of foster. again understandable trying to follow suit of RBBCs in the league, but also a indictment of his faith in williams.

now fox has his big back who while hurt still performed admirably especially late in season, and posted big stats. people wonder why williams stock is low this is a big reason. fox likes backs who can power through defenses. he has never given the ball to williams for one reason or another unless he has had to. last year williams was too productive and he had no other options but too had him the ball and watch the production. now fox is going to get his big RB back, presumably healthy, and williams will see less carries. while williams does have very good recieving skills and trumped foster during his time sharing a back field i doubt it will make much of a difference. their plays are rarely designed for that and williams is thrown to on emergency basis, even still he performs very well.

people are right that stewart will take carries from williams and that williams will still maintain some prominence. i think that williams will be the set up man and stewart will get the nuggety center of tired defenses. stewart production 250 carries, 1000 yards, with about 10-12 TDs, and williams getting 160 carries 1000 yards give or take 100 yards, with about 8-10 TDs. williams could make up the difference with receptions but he will not get the ball within the 30 yard line as long as stewart is healthy i can almost guarantee that. people are windering how williams and stewart will coexist well this is about it stewart gets the quality carries, and williams has to make due form no mans land and the emergency throws.

 

[comfortably numb]

Hypothetical

Where would you rank them if the other one was out for the year?

1?

2?

3?

4?

5?

 

[Garts]

there is one thing many people are not taking into account. john fox hates deangelo williams because he does not look to hit people first, and instead jukes away fom the defender. williams is a strong RB and i have seen him display his power and i am sure fox has noticed that as well. my reasoning when williams first came in he was getting over some injury issues, fine i do not mind he was a rookie there was some reason to not let him run around too much. what i did have a problem with was that fox was completely stubborn in not giving williams the ball more while foster was hurt.

in 06 williams played in 13 games, started 2, had a 121 touches, for 501 yards, coming to a 4.1 YPC. foster that year started/played in 14 games, had 227 touches, for 897 yards, coming to a 4.0 YPC.

recap of rookie year: while playing in 1 less game, williams had 100 less carries, coming to about 400 yards less. granted not a big difference but with a kid who was producing about as much as your vet i would think you would want to save his legs and use the kid a bit more, but rookie year so i give fox a bit of a slide.

in 07: williams played in 16 games, started 0, had 144 carries, gained 717 yards, with a 5.0 YPC. foster in the meantime started all the games, had 247 carries, gained 876 yards, for a 3.5 YPC.

recap of 2nd year: while single game performances and overall team execution does determine play call and personel decision. when your starter can only out produce your backup by about 100 yards with more than 100 carries something is wrong. fox never did anything about it except draft another rookie to be a pounder to take the place of foster. again understandable trying to follow suit of RBBCs in the league, but also a indictment of his faith in williams.

now fox has his big back who while hurt still performed admirably especially late in season, and posted big stats. people wonder why williams stock is low this is a big reason. fox likes backs who can power through defenses. he has never given the ball to williams for one reason or another unless he has had to. last year williams was too productive and he had no other options but too had him the ball and watch the production. now fox is going to get his big RB back, presumably healthy, and williams will see less carries. while williams does have very good recieving skills and trumped foster during his time sharing a back field i doubt it will make much of a difference. their plays are rarely designed for that and williams is thrown to on emergency basis, even still he performs very well.

people are right that stewart will take carries from williams and that williams will still maintain some prominence. i think that williams will be the set up man and stewart will get the nuggety center of tired defenses. stewart production 250 carries, 1000 yards, with about 10-12 TDs, and williams getting 160 carries 1000 yards give or take 100 yards, with about 8-10 TDs. williams could make up the difference with receptions but he will not get the ball within the 30 yard line as long as stewart is healthy i can almost guarantee that. people are windering how williams and stewart will coexist well this is about it stewart gets the quality carries, and williams has to make due form no mans land and the emergency throws.

The Deangelo Williams of lst year was 10x better the in his 1st two years and it's not close. He was in far better shape adn could take 20 carries with ease.If anything, Stewart needs to show he can stay healthy.

 

[Garts]

HypotheticalWhere would you rank them if the other one was out for the year?1?2?3?4?5?

APTurnerForteJones-DrewCarolina RB

 

[whitewizard]

there is one thing many people are not taking into account. john fox hates deangelo williams because he does not look to hit people first, and instead jukes away fom the defender. williams is a strong RB and i have seen him display his power and i am sure fox has noticed that as well. my reasoning when williams first came in he was getting over some injury issues, fine i do not mind he was a rookie there was some reason to not let him run around too much. what i did have a problem with was that fox was completely stubborn in not giving williams the ball more while foster was hurt.

in 06 williams played in 13 games, started 2, had a 121 touches, for 501 yards, coming to a 4.1 YPC. foster that year started/played in 14 games, had 227 touches, for 897 yards, coming to a 4.0 YPC.

recap of rookie year: while playing in 1 less game, williams had 100 less carries, coming to about 400 yards less. granted not a big difference but with a kid who was producing about as much as your vet i would think you would want to save his legs and use the kid a bit more, but rookie year so i give fox a bit of a slide.

in 07: williams played in 16 games, started 0, had 144 carries, gained 717 yards, with a 5.0 YPC. foster in the meantime started all the games, had 247 carries, gained 876 yards, for a 3.5 YPC.

recap of 2nd year: while single game performances and overall team execution does determine play call and personel decision. when your starter can only out produce your backup by about 100 yards with more than 100 carries something is wrong. fox never did anything about it except draft another rookie to be a pounder to take the place of foster. again understandable trying to follow suit of RBBCs in the league, but also a indictment of his faith in williams.

now fox has his big back who while hurt still performed admirably especially late in season, and posted big stats. people wonder why williams stock is low this is a big reason. fox likes backs who can power through defenses. he has never given the ball to williams for one reason or another unless he has had to. last year williams was too productive and he had no other options but too had him the ball and watch the production. now fox is going to get his big RB back, presumably healthy, and williams will see less carries. while williams does have very good recieving skills and trumped foster during his time sharing a back field i doubt it will make much of a difference. their plays are rarely designed for that and williams is thrown to on emergency basis, even still he performs very well.

people are right that stewart will take carries from williams and that williams will still maintain some prominence. i think that williams will be the set up man and stewart will get the nuggety center of tired defenses. stewart production 250 carries, 1000 yards, with about 10-12 TDs, and williams getting 160 carries 1000 yards give or take 100 yards, with about 8-10 TDs. williams could make up the difference with receptions but he will not get the ball within the 30 yard line as long as stewart is healthy i can almost guarantee that. people are windering how williams and stewart will coexist well this is about it stewart gets the quality carries, and williams has to make due form no mans land and the emergency throws.

The Deangelo Williams of lst year was 10x better the in his 1st two years and it's not close. He was in far better shape adn could take 20 carries with ease.If anything, Stewart needs to show he can stay healthy.

i like williams alot, i just think that if fox is given the option of a power back, and the elusive guy he goes with the power guy every time whether he is more productive or not. now he has a shiny new power back in stewart and once he can stay healthy williams will lose carries unless he is boiling hot. i honestly think that williams could have handled the production over foster, the panthers would have been better for it. what i am trying to prove with the numbers is that while williams was by far the superior back fox went with foster because of the past and what he thought he still had in the tank. williams is a very good back i would take him with a solid mewelde moore type to change the pace on the occassional 3rd downs. williams is a franchise guy and he can carry the load. fox does not like him and once stewart is regualrly healthy williams quality touches will go down. he will still get the yards, and a fair amount of TDs, but he is going to have to do it off the home run, and the occassional pass. the production between the 2 backs will be pretty similiar but again fox will put stewart in the position to succeed while leaving williams with the scrap carries. basically sewart will be in the position of barber, while williams will take the role of felix jones with more consistency and carries. the talent level is not as wide as it is between barber, and jones; but williams and stewart will be playing the same roles.

 

[omally]

there is one thing many people are not taking into account. john fox hates deangelo williams because he does not look to hit people first, and instead jukes away fom the defender. williams could make up the difference with receptions but he will not get the ball within the 30 yard line as long as stewart is healthy i can almost guarantee that. people are windering how williams and stewart will coexist well this is about it stewart gets the quality carries, and williams has to make due form no mans land and the emergency throws.

I didn't agree with most of your whole post, but these parts especially are Total BS.

 

[The Karate Kid]

DeAngelo is the 2nd best RB in the league. IMO, he might be better than AD b/c of the coaches favorite stat, ZERO fumbles in 2 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[whitewizard]

there is one thing many people are not taking into account. john fox hates deangelo williams because he does not look to hit people first, and instead jukes away fom the defender. williams could make up the difference with receptions but he will not get the ball within the 30 yard line as long as stewart is healthy i can almost guarantee that. people are windering how williams and stewart will coexist well this is about it stewart gets the quality carries, and williams has to make due form no mans land and the emergency throws.

I didn't agree with most of your whole post, but these parts especially are Total BS.

i am willing to admit i am talking out of my butt if you can explain why in 07 when williams clearly out produced foster he did not get more touches.last year it seemed like fox finally decided to give him the ball and he finally produced. i still saw stewart taking carries away while inside the 20 when on 6 play drives when williams had 3 carries and blocked the last 3. he was clearly not exhausted from running a big play. i can understand that fox wanted stewart to get that type of experience but that drive williams had gotten 6 yards every run against (sorry can not rememebr the opponent it was towards the end of the season and it was not a blow out yet) so he was very productive, not drained, and the game still needed to be won. what happens williams comes out. i am not saying williams is going to be crap i am saying that fox likes the power hitter type better than williams. that is why thye drafted stewart, and why i think williams will produce similiar #s to felix jones with more carries and a few more opportunities.

 

[gianmarco]

i am willing to admit i am talking out of my butt if you can explain why in 07 when williams clearly out produced foster he did not get more touches.

No one can give you a definitive answer except for John Fox himself. However, I can provide a theory (much like your posts are a theory). To be honest, I don't agree with your assessment of the situation at all because you're looking at it without considering what John Fox has done in the past as well.I think this year finally gave us the answer to a question that many had posed. Was Foster still the starter bc Fox thought he was better or because he's more loyal to vets and is slow to give 1st and 2nd year players the job? When Foster was brought in, many thought he looked better than S. Davis but he had to wait his turn. Then they drafted DeWill in the 1st round and everyone was convinced he'd have the starting job. Yet, he had to sit behind Foster for 2 years. Then, Carolina takes Stewart in the 1st round and many thought it was because he was the destined starter (much like DeWill 2 years earlier), and lo and behold, DeWill was the starter on day 1 and has remained there since then. Some may point that it was because of his performance, but in fact, DeWill started off the year quite slowly and didn't do anything to really "win" the job. Yet, it remained his and allowed him to put together the year he has.I think at this point it can be reasonably concluded that Fox simply does not trust rookie and even 2nd year RB's to be lead ball carriers for his team even if they are outproducing the more veteran players. We've now seen this happen 3 times in a row. The argument that DeWill must not be good because he couldn't beat out Foster was incorrect, IMHO. He was clearly putting up better #'s, they shipped off Foster and kept DeWill, and despite the fact they drafted Stewart in the 1st round, I do NOT think it was because they did not think DeAngelo was up to the task. To me, this is simply how Fox does things. And if someone is arguing that DeWill's 2008 season is a fluke and that in his 1st 2 years he couldn't even beat out Foster, then I really think that's faulty thinking. The past several years in Carolina have proven that to be the case.Foster was a 2nd round pick and did not get the starting job until his 3rd year despite outperforming S. DavisDeWill was a 1st round pick and did not get the starting job until his 3rd year despite outperforming D. FosterJ. Stewart was a 1st round pick and did not get the starting job despite the fact that everyone thought DeWill wasn't even good enough to beat out Foster. Unless by injury or miracle, I don't see Stewart having the starting job until his 3rd year (at the earliest). However, I also think there's a good chance DeWill signs elsewhere after next year and it will be Stewart's job in that magical 3rd year. At that point, I wouldn't be surprised if Carolina drafts ANOTHER RB in the 1st/2nd round and we can have the same argument again.

 

[Brutis]

i am willing to admit i am talking out of my butt if you can explain why in 07 when williams clearly out produced foster he did not get more touches.

No one can give you a definitive answer except for John Fox himself. However, I can provide a theory (much like your posts are a theory). To be honest, I don't agree with your assessment of the situation at all because you're looking at it without considering what John Fox has done in the past as well.I think this year finally gave us the answer to a question that many had posed. Was Foster still the starter bc Fox thought he was better or because he's more loyal to vets and is slow to give 1st and 2nd year players the job? When Foster was brought in, many thought he looked better than S. Davis but he had to wait his turn. Then they drafted DeWill in the 1st round and everyone was convinced he'd have the starting job. Yet, he had to sit behind Foster for 2 years. Then, Carolina takes Stewart in the 1st round and many thought it was because he was the destined starter (much like DeWill 2 years earlier), and lo and behold, DeWill was the starter on day 1 and has remained there since then. Some may point that it was because of his performance, but in fact, DeWill started off the year quite slowly and didn't do anything to really "win" the job. Yet, it remained his and allowed him to put together the year he has.I think at this point it can be reasonably concluded that Fox simply does not trust rookie and even 2nd year RB's to be lead ball carriers for his team even if they are outproducing the more veteran players. We've now seen this happen 3 times in a row. The argument that DeWill must not be good because he couldn't beat out Foster was incorrect, IMHO. He was clearly putting up better #'s, they shipped off Foster and kept DeWill, and despite the fact they drafted Stewart in the 1st round, I do NOT think it was because they did not think DeAngelo was up to the task. To me, this is simply how Fox does things. And if someone is arguing that DeWill's 2008 season is a fluke and that in his 1st 2 years he couldn't even beat out Foster, then I really think that's faulty thinking. The past several years in Carolina have proven that to be the case.Foster was a 2nd round pick and did not get the starting job until his 3rd year despite outperforming S. DavisDeWill was a 1st round pick and did not get the starting job until his 3rd year despite outperforming D. FosterJ. Stewart was a 1st round pick and did not get the starting job despite the fact that everyone thought DeWill wasn't even good enough to beat out Foster. Unless by injury or miracle, I don't see Stewart having the starting job until his 3rd year (at the earliest). However, I also think there's a good chance DeWill signs elsewhere after next year and it will be Stewart's job in that magical 3rd year. At that point, I wouldn't be surprised if Carolina drafts ANOTHER RB in the 1st/2nd round and we can have the same argument again.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Length of Williams' rushing scores last year:

111145510131516303236565669

 

[The Man With No Name]

i am willing to admit i am talking out of my butt if you can explain why in 07 when williams clearly out produced foster he did not get more touches.

No one can give you a definitive answer except for John Fox himself. However, I can provide a theory (much like your posts are a theory). To be honest, I don't agree with your assessment of the situation at all because you're looking at it without considering what John Fox has done in the past as well.I think this year finally gave us the answer to a question that many had posed. Was Foster still the starter bc Fox thought he was better or because he's more loyal to vets and is slow to give 1st and 2nd year players the job? When Foster was brought in, many thought he looked better than S. Davis but he had to wait his turn. Then they drafted DeWill in the 1st round and everyone was convinced he'd have the starting job. Yet, he had to sit behind Foster for 2 years. Then, Carolina takes Stewart in the 1st round and many thought it was because he was the destined starter (much like DeWill 2 years earlier), and lo and behold, DeWill was the starter on day 1 and has remained there since then. Some may point that it was because of his performance, but in fact, DeWill started off the year quite slowly and didn't do anything to really "win" the job. Yet, it remained his and allowed him to put together the year he has.I think at this point it can be reasonably concluded that Fox simply does not trust rookie and even 2nd year RB's to be lead ball carriers for his team even if they are outproducing the more veteran players. We've now seen this happen 3 times in a row. The argument that DeWill must not be good because he couldn't beat out Foster was incorrect, IMHO. He was clearly putting up better #'s, they shipped off Foster and kept DeWill, and despite the fact they drafted Stewart in the 1st round, I do NOT think it was because they did not think DeAngelo was up to the task. To me, this is simply how Fox does things. And if someone is arguing that DeWill's 2008 season is a fluke and that in his 1st 2 years he couldn't even beat out Foster, then I really think that's faulty thinking. The past several years in Carolina have proven that to be the case.Foster was a 2nd round pick and did not get the starting job until his 3rd year despite outperforming S. DavisDeWill was a 1st round pick and did not get the starting job until his 3rd year despite outperforming D. FosterJ. Stewart was a 1st round pick and did not get the starting job despite the fact that everyone thought DeWill wasn't even good enough to beat out Foster. Unless by injury or miracle, I don't see Stewart having the starting job until his 3rd year (at the earliest). However, I also think there's a good chance DeWill signs elsewhere after next year and it will be Stewart's job in that magical 3rd year. At that point, I wouldn't be surprised if Carolina drafts ANOTHER RB in the 1st/2nd round and we can have the same argument again.

Foster didn't get the starting job until his 5th year. He got hurt the last preseason game his rookie year and had microfracture knee surgery. He missed the entire season. The next year Carolina wasn't sure how healthy he would be and they signed Davis as a free agent and Davis had a big year. The next year, Davis got hurt the 2nd game and Foster the 4th. Both out for the year. The next year (Fosters 4th) Davis was starting and Foster was the backup and did outperform him except for touchdowns. The next year Carolina drafted Williams and Foster was the starter. Davis went to St. Louis.

 

[efactor]

there is one thing many people are not taking into account. john fox hates deangelo williams because he does not look to hit people first, and instead jukes away fom the defender. williams could make up the difference with receptions but he will not get the ball within the 30 yard line as long as stewart is healthy i can almost guarantee that. people are windering how williams and stewart will coexist well this is about it stewart gets the quality carries, and williams has to make due form no mans land and the emergency throws.

I didn't agree with most of your whole post, but these parts especially are Total BS.

I can see John Fox grabbing Williams after a 60 yard TD run and screaming "run over somebody dammit. These long TD runs make me sick".............Williams is a rare combination of power and speed. My bet is that Fox loves the guy. If not, he's stupid and Fox doesn't strike me as a stupid man, especially after the way he handled the Smith-Lucas incident...............

 

[Desert_Power]

Carolina ran the ball 475 times this past year. I wouldn't imagine that changing much with the way their offense is built. Stewart only got 100 less carries than Deangelo this year. Even if gets over 200 this year Deangelo should still have well over 250 touches. As long as he continues to average 5.5 yards a rush his numbers will still be high.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

As long as he continues to average 5.5 yards a rush his numbers will still be high.