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Doctor violently dragged from full United flight (2 Viewers)

culdeus said:
You are supposed to escalate in that situation, not think on your feet.  Find a supervisor, or call the panic line.  Without knowing a damn thing about UA I am 100% for sure they have a panic line for this type of situation.
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Agree that at some point the employee needs to escalate. The question is were all options available to the gate exhausted?

There's a fine line between handcuffing your employees and not allowing them any options other than escalating and empowering them too much. 

 
Buzzbait said:
Agree that at some point the employee needs to escalate. The question is were all options available to the gate exhausted?

There's a fine line between handcuffing your employees and not allowing them any options other than escalating and empowering them too much. 
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And I believe that O'Hare is their main hub. Have to think that upper level employees were not that far away. 

 
DaVinci said:
Why would United suspend anyone? Their staff followed procedure.
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I figured at least paid suspension while the airline "investigated". Getting those specific staffers further away from prying eyes and unscrupulous media outlets.

Oscar Munoz did say things were handled incorrectly ... but he must not have meant at the grunt level.

 
Da Guru said:
I will never fly United again!      That is unless their fares are lower than their competitors.
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I chuckle at all this because I almost always fly Delta, but right before all this I had to make a United flight for June (Delta connections suck to PSP).  

So I'm unwittingly one of those guys - due to company rules UAL was my only real choice. :bag:   

 
Jury awards $350G to mother of teen killed by Chicago police


they argued, and won, that the police officer who killed the teen had no reasonable fear for his life.  People in here arguing a guy with a bloody nose and chipped tooth should get >$10M. 

He better HOPE they settle out of court.  Court isn't kind, even when they're spending the city's money for a wrongful death.

 
MarvinTScamper said:
Jury awards $350G to mother of teen killed by Chicago police


they argued, and won, that the police officer who killed the teen had no reasonable fear for his life.  People in here arguing a guy with a bloody nose and chipped tooth should get >$10M. 

He better HOPE they settle out of court.  Court isn't kind, even when they're spending the city's money for a wrongful death.
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Where would you set the over/under?

eta---do you have a link to that case?

 
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MarvinTScamper said:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/04/19/jury-awards-350g-to-mother-teen-killed-by-chicago-police.html

and by no means am I making a comparison of the cases.   Just that DEATH pays $350k, and this plane fiasco being >10M?  NFW.
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Agree with you that a wrongful death "should" pay more but there's one difference you're not considering. Public perception and it's impact on UA's business vs the City of Chicago.

UA stands to lose a LOT more in revenue than Chicago. What are people going to do..move out of the city? Boycott city services?

Unfortunately the almighty dollar holds sway and UA will be a lot more motivated to make this go away.

 
Marvin ... United wouldn't be paying multi-millions for specific damages to Dao. They're be paying specifically to avoid a public-records trial.

Paradoxically ... if Dao's case were to go to trial, the amount he'd be awarded by a jury (and probably later reduced on appeal) would probably be a lot less than United's settlement will be. I think Dao would pretty much automatically win the case in court, mind you -- I just don't think a jury would go sky high with the damages.

But none of that is going into United's calculus here.

 
Buzzbait said:
Agree with you that a wrongful death "should" pay more but there's one difference you're not considering. Public perception and it's impact on UA's business vs the City of Chicago.

UA stands to lose a LOT more in revenue than Chicago. What are people going to do..move out of the city? Boycott city services?

Unfortunately the almighty dollar holds sway and UA will be a lot more motivated to make this go away.
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Not to mention that on one side, you have a city...and on the other, a company with a $22B market cap. 

 
United Airlines Will Testify at House Hearing After Man Was Dragged From Plane

United Airlines said on Wednesday it planned to testify at an upcoming U.S. House Transportation Committee hearing on commercial airline consumer issues after a passenger was dragged off an April 9 flight in Chicago to make room for crew members.

...

The airline also faces a Thursday deadline from the U.S. Senate Commerce Committee to answer detailed questions about the incident on United Flight 3411, which 69-year-old Dr. David Dao was dragged off by airport security officers.

The same committee requested that the Chicago Department of Aviation, which employs the officers, respond to a separate list of queries by Thursday as well.
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...

In case there was any lingering doubt (though this link is super-thin on detail):
 

Employees in United Airlines dragging incident keep jobs
 

Everyone with united airlines involved in the controversial dragging incident will keep their jobs according to the CEO. Company executives say it’s too soon to know if last week’s dragging of a man off a plane is hurting ticket sales.

United Airlines apologized again on Tuesday taking full responsibility.
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EDIT: Better link

.

 
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The Settlement Dr. Dao Will Get From United is Expected to Be Enormous

“Dr. Dao will likely get millions here,” said [lawyer James Goodnow of the Lamber-Goodnow Injury Law Team at Fennemore Craig]. “The only question is how many zeros will follow the first number. This is going to be a slam dunk, a no-brainer, an easy win. It’s documented on multiple cell phones. There’s no question.”

...

Goodnow believes, however, that Dao’s case will not make it to court at all. Due to the high-profile nature of the case, with an overwhelming public support on Dao’s side, United is highly expected to go for a settlement. This would mean a significantly larger payout for Dao, according to Goodnow.

“What you will see here is a settlement value that will blow away anything Dr. Dao will ever recover in court,” he noted.
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Anger over passenger dragging has business flyers taking on United, airlines

An influential group of road warriors, better known as business travelers, is joining a push to stop the giant domestic air carriers from systemically mistreating and demeaning passengers — another consequence of United Airlines' recent customer service debacle.

Yes, even these hard-boiled and experienced voyagers are galvanized by the mind-blowing display aboard a United Express plane that was, of course, captured on video and went viral.

...

Now a coalition of business flyers is supporting a congressional effort to pass an air travelers bill of rights. Meanwhile, United's brass acknowledged during Tuesday's quarterly earnings call with investors that some of its corporate customers also are pressing for policy changes.

This is serious stuff.

Business travelers, who typically pay the most for tickets, regularly account for nearly 40 percent of annual airline industry revenues, so executives and lawmakers ignore them at their own peril.
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MarvinTScamper said:
blow away anything he would recover in court.   1,000,000 >>>>>> 350,000.   Anyway, I'm done worrying.  I don't think it will come anywhere near the $7-10M you guys toss around.
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It okay to be wrong every once in a while. Dude is getting 10 mill +

 
MarvinTScamper said:
I should have said responding, but then I would have just broken that too.  as far as the stock goes...it barely budged.  BFD.  With the $1M payment, it won't budge there either. 
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It'll be much higher than $1M, that is pretty much a given with all the backlash UAL has received.  Naive to think otherwise.  

 
lol - we may never find out, but you can rip me if I'm wrong.  I'll definitely do the same.  "Naive to think otherwise" is the best one yet.  Must be amazing to predict the future.

 
other "huge" "layup" awards in history

Silkwood - 10.6M awarded to someone KILLED by plutonium exposure - ended up settling for less than 1.4M, family got 500k after legal fees.

McDonalds - 2.8M awarded to lady who burned herself - ultimately awarded $640k, which I'm sure was most eaten by legal fees

Another good article on why he'll never see $10M, and why he'll end up with less than $1M after the sharks get their money - LA Times article of 25 largest awards

 
MarvinTScamper said:
other "huge" "layup" awards in history

Silkwood - 10.6M awarded to someone KILLED by plutonium exposure - ended up settling for less than 1.4M, family got 500k after legal fees.

McDonalds - 2.8M awarded to lady who burned herself - ultimately awarded $640k, which I'm sure was most eaten by legal fees

Another good article on why he'll never see $10M, and why he'll end up with less than $1M after the sharks get their money - LA Times article of 25 largest awards
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... those are jury awards. Not at all relevant to the matter at hand.

This particular debate is academic, anyway ... the settlement amount won't be disclosed. See also the toddler killed by an alligator at a Disney resort last year.

 
Doug B said:
... those are jury awards. Not at all relevant to the matter at hand.

This particular debate is academic, anyway ... the settlement amount won't be disclosed. See also the toddler killed by an alligator at a Disney resort last year.
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agreed it's academic.  I guess if United is WILLING to make a huge payment.  Otherwise, the proof of past settlements is in their favor.  And yes, the Disney would be a decent example...you know, if the guy had been killed, instead of just a bloody lip and chipped tooth for resisting law enforcement.

 
MarvinTScamper said:
And yes, the Disney would be a decent example...you know, if the guy had been killed, instead of just a bloody lip and chipped tooth for resisting law enforcement.
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Disney is an example of a settlement being contingent on an agreement by both parties never to speak of the matter publicly. Again, Disney didn't merely pay out because the child died ... it wasn't a cynical, monetary effort to make the family "whole" somehow. It was payment to stop the PR bleeding right then and there. Same issue United faces now.

 
Doug B said:
Disney is an example of a settlement being contingent on an agreement by both parties never to speak of the matter publicly. Again, Disney didn't merely pay out because the child died ... it wasn't a cynical, monetary effort to make the family "whole" somehow. It was payment to stop the PR bleeding right then and there. Same issue United faces now.
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Possible.  Has there been any speculation to the amount Disney paid?  I can't find anything. And I don't think it's cynical in any way.  Never thought that.  But SOMEONE DIED.

 
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MarvinTScamper said:
agreed it's academic.  I guess if United is WILLING to make a huge payment.  Otherwise, the proof of past settlements is in their favor.  And yes, the Disney would be a decent example...you know, if the guy had been killed, instead of just a bloody lip and chipped tooth for resisting law enforcement.
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You keep minimizing his injuries, in addition to his concussion, he had a broken nose and lost two front teeth, not just a bloody lip and chipped tooth you claim:

http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/david-dao-injuries-concussion-video-press-conference-tom-demetrio-doctor-united-airlines-passenger-dragged-removed/

David Dao’s Injuries: Attorney Describes Doctor’s Concussion, Trauma

[...]

According to attorney Tom Demetrio, who is a well-known personal injury attorney in Chicago who has earned millions in verdicts, Dao, 69, suffered the following injuries:

A significant concussion as a result of disembarking the plane.

A “serious broken nose, injury to the sinuses.” He will need reconstructive surgery to repair his broken nose, said Demetrio.

That’s not all, either. “He lost two front teeth. He’s shaken,” said Demetrio, who said Dao suffered the injuries as he was dragged off the United flight by security, a scene captured in multiple citizen videos that have gone viral on the internet. Demetrio specializes in pain and suffering cases involving airline tragedies and workplace injuries.

“He will have medical treatment for some time,” Demetrio said. He said that Dao’s prognosis was not clear, and he needed to speak to Dao’s doctors still because the injuries are so recent.

 
squistion said:
You keep minimizing his injuries, in addition to his concussion, he had a broken nose and lost two front teeth, not just a bloody lip and chipped tooth you claim:

http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/david-dao-injuries-concussion-video-press-conference-tom-demetrio-doctor-united-airlines-passenger-dragged-removed/

David Dao’s Injuries: Attorney Describes Doctor’s Concussion, Trauma

[...]

According to attorney Tom Demetrio, who is a well-known personal injury attorney in Chicago who has earned millions in verdicts, Dao, 69, suffered the following injuries:

A significant concussion as a result of disembarking the plane.

A “serious broken nose, injury to the sinuses.” He will need reconstructive surgery to repair his broken nose, said Demetrio.

That’s not all, either. “He lost two front teeth. He’s shaken,” said Demetrio, who said Dao suffered the injuries as he was dragged off the United flight by security, a scene captured in multiple citizen videos that have gone viral on the internet. Demetrio specializes in pain and suffering cases involving airline tragedies and workplace injuries.

“He will have medical treatment for some time,” Demetrio said. He said that Dao’s prognosis was not clear, and he needed to speak to Dao’s doctors still because the injuries are so recent.
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yes, I'm minimizing them, because he didn't die.  His attorney is overstating them, because he's a shark lawyer who will get a huge portion of whatever Dao gets.

 
squistion said:
You keep minimizing his injuries, in addition to his concussion, he had a broken nose and lost two front teeth, not just a bloody lip and chipped tooth you claim:

http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/david-dao-injuries-concussion-video-press-conference-tom-demetrio-doctor-united-airlines-passenger-dragged-removed/

David Dao’s Injuries: Attorney Describes Doctor’s Concussion, Trauma

[...]

According to attorney Tom Demetrio, who is a well-known personal injury attorney in Chicago who has earned millions in verdicts, Dao, 69, suffered the following injuries:

A significant concussion as a result of disembarking the plane.

A “serious broken nose, injury to the sinuses.” He will need reconstructive surgery to repair his broken nose, said Demetrio.

That’s not all, either. “He lost two front teeth. He’s shaken,” said Demetrio, who said Dao suffered the injuries as he was dragged off the United flight by security, a scene captured in multiple citizen videos that have gone viral on the internet. Demetrio specializes in pain and suffering cases involving airline tragedies and workplace injuries.

“He will have medical treatment for some time,” Demetrio said. He said that Dao’s prognosis was not clear, and he needed to speak to Dao’s doctors still because the injuries are so recent.
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:lmao: :lmao:

I mean, if we can't trust a lawyer's statement then whose can we trust?

 
MarvinTScamper said:
yes, I'm minimizing them, because he didn't die.  His attorney is overstating them, because he's a shark lawyer who will get a huge portion of whatever Dao gets.
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:sigh: Fortunately that is not the threshold our legal system uses to determine if a civil suit has merit or the plaintiff is entitled to damages.

A broken nose and teeth that are knocked out are easy to document (unlike a concussion) and could be obtained during pre-trial discovery (if it goes that far). If UA thinks his attorney is overstating this, pretty easy to call his bluff and not settle, opting to go to court. But they won't do that.

 
MarvinTScamper said:
Possible.  Has there been any speculation to the amount Disney paid?  I can't find anything. And I don't think it's cynical in any way.  Never thought that.  But SOMEONE DIED.
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Companies the size of Disney and United don't really see a difference between someone dying and someone getting hurt when it comes to how big of check they are willing to write. 

How big of check they are willing to write is determined by how much goodwill their brand will lose if the victim and their family doesn't shut the hell up about what happened. 

 
Politician Spock said:
Companies the size of Disney and United don't really see a difference between someone dying and someone getting hurt when it comes to how big of check they are willing to write. 

How big of check they are willing to write is determined by how much goodwill their brand will lose if the victim and their family doesn't shut the hell up about what happened. 
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Lol.  Apparently you missed my earlier post about how the 25 largest settlements in history were all reduced to very little.  If I'm a shareholder I WANT them to fight.  Based on history. 

 
squistion said:
:sigh: Fortunately that is not the threshold our legal system uses to determine if a civil suit has merit or the plaintiff is entitled to damages.

A broken nose and teeth that are knocked out are easy to document (unlike a concussion) and could be obtained during pre-trial discovery (if it goes that far). If UA thinks his attorney is overstating this, pretty easy to call his bluff and not settle, opting to go to court. But they won't do that.
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:sigh: you apparently think the level of damages is irrelevant 

 
Can't airlines even do a little better than this? Seriously?

I haven't flown since 2004, and this kind of stuff would have been such oddball never-happen events ... and now it seems constant. People that have kept flying over the last decade frequently point out that things have gotten a lot worse (and not just because of 9/11).

...

Quick question for the jet-setters here: is flying first-class an almost 100% ironclad insulation from this kind of stuff? If you want a virtual guarantee that things will go right on your flight ... gotta go first-class in 2017, right? Budget prices, budget problems?

 
Doug B said:
Can't airlines even do a little better than this? Seriously?

I haven't flown since 2004, and this kind of stuff would have been such oddball never-happen events ... and now it seems constant. People that have kept flying over the last decade frequently point out that things have gotten a lot worse (and not just because of 9/11).

...

Quick question for the jet-setters here: is flying first-class an almost 100% ironclad insulation from this kind of stuff? If you want a virtual guarantee that things will go right on your flight ... gotta go first-class in 2017, right? Budget prices, budget problems?
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in general, I don't see anyone treated like this when they treat the airline staff like humans, and do what they're asked to do.  I realize there are many many entitled selfish #######s out there who think spending $500 on an airline ticket means they get to do whatever they want, be treated like royalty, and gives them permission to treat everyone else like ####...

 
MarvinTScamper said:
in general, I don't see anyone treated like this when they treat the airline staff like humans, and do what they're asked to do.  I realize there are many many entitled selfish #######s out there who think spending $500 on an airline ticket means they get to do whatever they want, be treated like royalty, and gives them permission to treat everyone else like ####...
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The truth is somewhere in the middle, I'm sure. One person's "entitled" is another person's "reasonable".

 
Doug B said:
Can't airlines even do a little better than this? Seriously?

I haven't flown since 2004, and this kind of stuff would have been such oddball never-happen events ... and now it seems constant. People that have kept flying over the last decade frequently point out that things have gotten a lot worse (and not just because of 9/11).

...

Quick question for the jet-setters here: is flying first-class an almost 100% ironclad insulation from this kind of stuff? If you want a virtual guarantee that things will go right on your flight ... gotta go first-class in 2017, right? Budget prices, budget problems?
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Going on empirical data, the woman in the AA incident flew first class after the fiasco and was treated much better so I'm going with yes.

 
I think the airlines have brought this upon themselves.  Overbooking, the need to be on time, charging for checked bags, no food service.  The more passengers get squeezed, the more tensions rise, and the more likely you are to have conflicts. 

 
squistion said:
NBC Nightly News‏Verified account @NBCNightlyNews 43m43 minutes ago

BREAKING: Dragged United passenger Dr. David Dao has settled

with the airline for an undisclosed amount, his attorneys say.
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must have been a huge number he couldn't refuse.  With a high power attorney no way Dao settled this quickly unless the deal was very very good for him.

 
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