Dodgeball is a tool of oppression (1 Viewer)

[Gary Coal Man]

The list of which famous athlete would be good at sport/game X always starts with Allen Iverson.

What if Game X is Professional Practicing?

 

[chet]

We could also look at it clearly and remember what it was like. I played dodgeball long before anyone put much thought into it. And it was exactly what I said it was. An exercise in trying to further dominate smaller kids. Coaches were fine with that as apparently many of you are. I remember kids sitting out those days because they would invariably be targets. They weren't the big kids. They were the small unathlectic kids. So give the whole dodgeball is a game with redeeming qualities a rest. Anyone willing to be intellectually honest knows better.

Simply because some people are good and some are bad doesn't make it oppressive--it makes it a typical life activity.  Any situation where's there's a hierarchy has the potential to devolve into a tyranny but simply because it's a hierarchy doesn't make it a tyranny.  Of course, some dodgeball games are oppressive but that's almost certainly due to the gym teacher's abuse of power.  You asked for intellectual honesty and you got it.

These "academics" also have issues with these other games:

Tag, for example, singles out one poor participant, often the slowest child, as the dehumanized “It,” who runs vainly in pursuit of the quicker ones. Capture the Flag is nakedly militaristic. British Bulldog has obvious jingoistic colonial themes. Red ###, known in America as Butts Up, involves deliberate imposition of corporal punishment on losers.

 

[jhib]

We could also look at it clearly and remember what it was like. I played dodgeball long before anyone put much thought into it. And it was exactly what I said it was. An exercise in trying to further dominate smaller kids. Coaches were fine with that as apparently many of you are. I remember kids sitting out those days because they would invariably be targets. They weren't the big kids. They were the small unathlectic kids. So give the whole dodgeball is a game with redeeming qualities a rest. Anyone willing to be intellectually honest knows better.

Sounds like you had a neanderthal for a coach or gym teacher. With coaches like that all sports become a way of picking on the smaller weaker kids. 

Exactly. Sounds like all the more athletic kids in his class were non-competitive jerks, too. Try to assume your experience might not be universal before calling others intellectually dishonest. 

In my experience, the ones who were better at dodgeball were excited about getting the other team's good players out first and trying to win the game. The good players were the targets. Invariably, one of the smaller, weaker kids would be the last one standing on a side, either because they were quick or because they weren't targets. And occasionally, they'd even end up a hero by catching a late ball and freeing one of their teammates. Saw that happen more often than them doing something significant playing soccer, basketball, baseball, volleyball, etc.

 

[jhib]

I love the whole pretending there is some high minded concept to this game, why it's practically 3 dimensional chess. Yeah right.

No one's calling it chess, but it's as high minded as any other game you play in gym class. 

 

[tommyboy]

We could also look at it clearly and remember what it was like. I played dodgeball long before anyone put much thought into it. And it was exactly what I said it was. An exercise in trying to further dominate smaller kids. Coaches were fine with that as apparently many of you are. I remember kids sitting out those days because they would invariably be targets. They weren't the big kids. They were the small unathlectic kids. So give the whole dodgeball is a game with redeeming qualities a rest. Anyone willing to be intellectually honest knows better.

the big kids suck at hide n seek and kick the can so it all evens out eventually

 

[parasaurolophus]

I like how they mentioned the movie dodgeball as some sort of proof that this is a game of oppression. You know the movie where the band of unathletic misfits triumphs over the hand picked team of cyborgs by using teamwork and focus rather than raw physical talent. 

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Kids are going to test themselves and to sort themselves into Alphas, betas, and complete spazzes.  This is nature.  Its Lord of the Flies out there people.  Nature is cruel, fairness is a human construct.  Ban dodge ball, ban tackle football, ban what you will, kids will still have dominance play, it is endemic to all social animals.

Should it be part of a curriculum, probably not, will it stop being played, say after school, maybe it would die out, maybe not.  When we were young we choose other sports after school, and games much more distressing by name and by rule of play, but never dodge ball .

 

[hooter311]

Without oppression, there would be no heroes.

 

[Bull Dozier]

Simply because some people are good and some are bad doesn't make it oppressive--it makes it a typical life activity.  Any situation where's there's a hierarchy has the potential to devolve into a tyranny but simply because it's a hierarchy doesn't make it a tyranny.  Of course, some dodgeball games are oppressive but that's almost certainly due to the gym teacher's abuse of power.  You asked for intellectual honesty and you got it.

These "academics" also have issues with these other games:

Never heard of butts up, but curiosity is piqued.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Barry Sanders would have been the greatest dodge ball player ever.

I think Pat Mahomes would be a good dodge ball player. Nate Newton may not have been as good. 

The list of which famous athlete would be good at sport/game X always starts with Allen Iverson.

Fun fact:

My son once took out NFL QB Cody Kessler in dodgeball.  Actually true.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

Never heard of butts up, but curiosity is piqued.

We’re you raised by wolves or something?

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Fun fact:

My son once took out NFL QB Cody Kessler in dodgeball.  Actually true.

Your son sounds like a bully.

 

[Bull Dozier]

We’re you raised by wolves or something?

Is it the same as heads up seven up?  Otherwise I got nothing.   

 

[Jayrod]

Is it the same as heads up seven up?  Otherwise I got nothing.   

Yeah, I don't know what this either.  If only we had some sort of machine that could give us answers to questions such as this.

I'm shuked.

 

[hooter311]

Is it the same as heads up seven up?  Otherwise I got nothing.   

Also from midwest (Iowa, later Wisconsin) and oblivious.

 

[peaces]

So where does smear the queer fall?

 

[Jayrod]

So where does smear the queer fall?

I used to really enjoy this game in grade school.  Learned how to fight like a rabid dog for the ball.

Since the most capable person is the one who gets singled out and punished, I think it is almost the antithesis of dodgeball.

 

[Jayrod]

Just looked up butts up.  Is apparently a game more common in the Northeast.

My understanding (from wikipedia ) :  You basically have a bunch of kids and one ball.  Try to throw the ball off the wall and get it to bounce.  Then there is chaos to try and catch it.  If you drop it, you bend over by the wall and someone gets to try and pelt your backside with the ball.  If you throw it and someone catches it before it bounces, you get the same treatment.  At least that is what I got in a 2 minute skimming.

 

[hooter311]

Just looked up butts up.  Is apparently a game more common in the Northeast.

My understanding (from wikipedia ) :  You basically have a bunch of kids and one ball.  Try to throw the ball off the wall and get it to bounce.  Then there is chaos to try and catch it.  If you drop it, you bend over by the wall and someone gets to try and pelt your backside with the ball.  If you throw it and someone catches it before it bounces, you get the same treatment.  At least that is what I got in a 2 minute skimming.

Ummm, I don't remember playing any version of that game.

Born '84

 

[tommyboy]

So where does smear the queer fall?

i was going to comment on that but feared a banning.   

now THERE's a game about bullying right there.

 

[tommyboy]

Just looked up butts up.  Is apparently a game more common in the Northeast.

My understanding (from wikipedia ) :  You basically have a bunch of kids and one ball.  Try to throw the ball off the wall and get it to bounce.  Then there is chaos to try and catch it.  If you drop it, you bend over by the wall and someone gets to try and pelt your backside with the ball.  If you throw it and someone catches it before it bounces, you get the same treatment.  At least that is what I got in a 2 minute skimming.

going to try this with the wife tonight

 

[Murph]

Just looked up butts up.  Is apparently a game more common in the Northeast.

My understanding (from wikipedia ) :  You basically have a bunch of kids and one ball.  Try to throw the ball off the wall and get it to bounce.  Then there is chaos to try and catch it.  If you drop it, you bend over by the wall and someone gets to try and pelt your backside with the ball.  If you throw it and someone catches it before it bounces, you get the same treatment.  At least that is what I got in a 2 minute skimming.

Huh. I'm from New England and we played something similar to this but there was no bending over. You just got pegged in the back. And we called it suicide.

Edit: Potentially poor choice of words here, but I'm leaving it.

 

[Osaurus]

Huh. I'm from New England and we played something similar to this but there was no bending over. You just got pegged in the back. And we called it suicide.

Edit: Potentially poor choice of words here, but I'm leaving it.

We played something similar with a racquetball.  Those things really sting.

 

[Binky The Doormat]

we are raising an entire generation of complete #######.  

my generation. 

 

[Hoh]

we are raising an entire generation of complete #######.  

my generation. 

Whoa whoa whoa.  Can you put a trigger warning on this for some of the fellas here please?

 

[glvsav37]

We had to do square dancing in gym class too. That was 10x more humiliating when they partnered up and the last 2 left were you and the girl who smelled like fish. 

And even she didn’t want to dance with you. 

 

[Ray Barboni]

When I was in junior high we had to switch from volleyball to a soft nerd ball after a parent was concerned about her kid taking balls to his face.  Looking back I remember all the girls and unathletic kids hiding against the wall as far back as they could so they wouldn't get hit. 

Those nerf balls were great though, you could really unleash on anyone - with no regard. Sure, it wasn’t the knock out blow that a volley ball would deliver. But there was something still very satisfying about the way those nerf balls bounced off the dorks heads

plus ... there was always those “old” used up balls (ha) ... you know, the ones that grip marks dug into em by past dodgeballers? Always could get the perfect sling with those ones 

 

[glvsav37]

Is it the same as heads up seven up?  Otherwise I got nothing.   

I think 7-up was that “chill” game you played in class when you couldn’t go outside. I think everyone put they head down and held a thumb up and somebody had to go around the room Ana put your thumb down.  Idk. It was stupid 

 

[shuke]

Huh. I'm from New England and we played something similar to this but there was no bending over. You just got pegged in the back. And we called it suicide.

Edit: Potentially poor choice of words here, but I'm leaving it.

This is how I remember it.  I think with a tennis ball.

 

[jhib]

Just looked up butts up.  Is apparently a game more common in the Northeast.

My understanding (from wikipedia ) :  You basically have a bunch of kids and one ball.  Try to throw the ball off the wall and get it to bounce.  Then there is chaos to try and catch it.  If you drop it, you bend over by the wall and someone gets to try and pelt your backside with the ball.  If you throw it and someone catches it before it bounces, you get the same treatment.  At least that is what I got in a 2 minute skimming.

I grew up playing this just about every day after school (Catholic elementary school in NJ) in the playground/parking lot against the brick wall of the school.  We had to wait a while for our bus, and some other kids who walked home would hang around to play before leaving.  

I don't know if our rules were standard or anything, but we'd play with a tennis ball and you'd throw the ball against the wall, and anyone could go after it.  If you didn't catch it cleanly and dropped it, you had to leave the ball and run as fast as you could to touch the wall before someone else picked up the ball and threw it at you.  If you got to the wall first, you were "safe" and play continued.  If you got pegged by the ball first, then play stopped and you had to stand up against the wall (facing the wall) and the one who hit you got a free shot at you. 

The thrower was really supposed to aim for the butt, but it was common knowledge that you had a decent amount of padding there and it hurt a lot more if you got them in the back of the leg.  IIRC our rules were that if the guy against the wall moved to avoid the throw, then everybody else lined up for the chance to peg them one at a time.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some of our rules, but I don't think we did any kind of elimination or anything.  Everyone just kept playing until it was time to leave.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

I grew up playing this just about every day after school (Catholic elementary school in NJ) in the playground/parking lot against the brick wall of the school.  We had to wait a while for our bus, and some other kids who walked home would hang around to play before leaving.  

I don't know if our rules were standard or anything, but we'd play with a tennis ball and you'd throw the ball against the wall, and anyone could go after it.  If you didn't catch it cleanly and dropped it, you had to leave the ball and run as fast as you could to touch the wall before someone else picked up the ball and threw it at you.  If you got to the wall first, you were "safe" and play continued.  If you got pegged by the ball first, then play stopped and you had to stand up against the wall (facing the wall) and the one who hit you got a free shot at you. 

The thrower was really supposed to aim for the butt, but it was common knowledge that you had a decent amount of padding there and it hurt a lot more if you got them in the back of the leg.  IIRC our rules were that if the guy against the wall moved to avoid the throw, then everybody else lined up for the chance to peg them one at a time.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some of our rules, but I don't think we did any kind of elimination or anything.  Everyone just kept playing until it was time to leave.

Same rules here.

The best was when some rookie would stand up against the wall with his legs spread like he was about to be frisked by a cop.  If you knew what you were doing you could throw the ball so that it would bounce first, go between his legs, then ricochet off the wall for a nutshot.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

I think 7-up was that “chill” game you played in class when you couldn’t go outside. I think everyone put they head down and held a thumb up and somebody had to go around the room Ana put your thumb down.  Idk. It was stupid 

Whenever I have a student that does something like finish a test early (and they have no other work to do) I tell them “Just play a solo game of heads-up 7-Up for 5 minutes.”

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Well the radical left probably wouldn't claim me but there is a lot to agree with in that paper. As a "game" it is essentially a license to bully, it serves no real purpose. It doesn't teach any of the good lessons sport can teach. It's just a way for the bigger more athletic kids to hit smaller kids in the head with a ball at full speed, that's it.

i was a scrawny twerp of a kid.  one of my prouder 'sports'  moments, in middle school, was in a dodgeball game.  we were playing with high schoolers, i went to a tiny school.  this enormous dude, fired that twangy, nasty smelling, red orbital of death right at me....i focused like never before, and caught that ####er!  it about knocked me down.  my chest looked like the japanese flag (i'm a soulless ginger, an extra white one).  he was out!  i was on top of the world, and was always invited to play with the older kids after that.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

we played butts up, with multiple balls.  and the wall we played against was a weird curved wall, that made for some interesting bounces.  good times.  smear the queer was f'ing awesome too.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Same rules here.

The best was when some rookie would stand up against the wall with his legs spread like he was about to be frisked by a cop.  If you knew what you were doing you could throw the ball so that it would bounce first, go between his legs, then ricochet off the wall for a nutshot.

one learned to cup ones junk.

 

[gianmarco]

First they came for our dodgeballs, and I did not speak out....

 

[Bull Dozier]

Just looked up butts up.  Is apparently a game more common in the Northeast.

My understanding (from wikipedia ) :  You basically have a bunch of kids and one ball.  Try to throw the ball off the wall and get it to bounce.  Then there is chaos to try and catch it.  If you drop it, you bend over by the wall and someone gets to try and pelt your backside with the ball.  If you throw it and someone catches it before it bounces, you get the same treatment.  At least that is what I got in a 2 minute skimming.

My kids played something similar at recess, but you were just "out" if you dropped the ball I believe.

 

[Black Box]

Who knew there were so many school yard games of oppression out there? Try and stay safe, kids.

 

[Gally]

Same rules here.

The best was when some rookie would stand up against the wall with his legs spread like he was about to be frisked by a cop.  If you knew what you were doing you could throw the ball so that it would bounce first, go between his legs, then ricochet off the wall for a nutshot.

The only additional rules we had was you had to throw the ball to the wall from where you caught it and you couldn't change hands.  So if you caught it with your non-throwing hand you had to use that hand to throw it.  Also, if someone caught your thrown ball before it hit the wall then the person that threw that ball had to assume the position and the catcher got three throws at him.  However, if you missed the catch (touched the ball but did not catch it) you were subject to the punishment. 

 

[Jayrod]

The only additional rules we had was you had to throw the ball to the wall from where you caught it and you couldn't change hands.  So if you caught it with your non-throwing hand you had to use that hand to throw it.  Also, if someone caught your thrown ball before it hit the wall then the person that threw that ball had to assume the position and the catcher got three throws at him.  However, if you missed the catch (touched the ball but did not catch it) you were subject to the punishment. 

FDAU sounds like fun.

 

[Moe.]

The only additional rules we had was you had to throw the ball to the wall from where you caught it and you couldn't change hands.  So if you caught it with your non-throwing hand you had to use that hand to throw it.  Also, if someone caught your thrown ball before it hit the wall then the person that threw that ball had to assume the position and the catcher got three throws at him.  However, if you missed the catch (touched the ball but did not catch it) you were subject to the punishment. 

We had the same rule as far as you had to throw with the hand you caught it with, but no rule about catching balls thrown toward the wall. Such a fun game. Was never forced to play it as part of school though. Always with friends who were of the same mind and similar skill-sets. 

The phrase "tool of oppression" really makes my skin crawl but so does the other extreme. I feel like if you have a strong opinion on this either way it's very likely that I will disagree with you. While I don't think dodgeball is the worst thing in the world and would doubt any claims that it would cause long-term damage to someone's psyche - I'm pretty sure we can find something better for kids to do while they are at school. 100%. And I'm not an anti-physical education guy by any stretch. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

We also played "Pinball" where you placed soccer balls on top of cones in the four corners.

You could win by either getting all opposing team members out or knocking the balls of the cones.

That was funner than Dodgeball.

 

[Jayrod]

Longball was my favorite PE game.  Kickball in a gymnasium with 2 bases at each of the wall mats (under the goals). You kicked from one corner of the basketball floor and then to score, you had to run to the opposite mat and back.  You could also run to the near mat for safety if you so desired.  As many people on base as you wanted.  Hitting a kid with the ball was an out as was a caught ball.  Home runs were across half court and above a certain line of bricks.

So much fun as everyone could play it as safe or daring as they wanted and as long as you didn't get off base, you were safe.

 

[Bull Dozier]

We also played "Pinball" where you placed soccer balls on top of cones in the four corners.

You could win by either getting all opposing team members out or knocking the balls of the cones.

That was funner than Dodgeball.

We played "Pinguard' in gym, which was my personal favorite.  Different varieties but my favorite was when everyone had their own pin (plastic bowling pins).  You were in as until your pin got knocked down.  It was a prelude to playing Risk, forming alliances, only to be betrayed when vulnerable.

 

[DallasDMac]

Dodgeball is now a crime...

 

[LC512]

We had the same rule as far as you had to throw with the hand you caught it with, but no rule about catching balls thrown toward the wall. Such a fun game. Was never forced to play it as part of school though. Always with friends who were of the same mind and similar skill-sets. 

The phrase "tool of oppression" really makes my skin crawl but so does the other extreme. I feel like if you have a strong opinion on this either way it's very likely that I will disagree with you. While I don't think dodgeball is the worst thing in the world and would doubt any claims that it would cause long-term damage to someone's psyche - I'm pretty sure we can find something better for kids to do while they are at school. 100%. And I'm not an anti-physical education guy by any stretch. 

Agreed. Most people who have strong opinions on things like this (or most things that start "PC" debates), towards either side, are either neurotic weirdos, man-children, or political hacks. Dodgeball was awesome and fun and I have no issue with my kids playing it when they're old enough, but I'm not really going to cry myself to sleep if they get rid of it either. It's whatever.

Butts up, man, I had forgotten about that. That sinking feeling when you drop the ball. It was like slow motion watching it fall to the ground. Good times.

 

[NutterButter]

http://Dodgeball is now officially a crime. Well, if you're an AA 10 year old anyways...

I don't think that link goes where you think it goes.

 

[DallasDMac]

I don't think that link goes where you think it goes.

Thanks. Fixed. Not sure what happened.

 

[NotSmart]

Well the radical left probably wouldn't claim me but there is a lot to agree with in that paper. As a "game" it is essentially a license to bully, it serves no real purpose. It doesn't teach any of the good lessons sport can teach. It's just a way for the bigger more athletic kids to hit smaller kids in the head with a ball at full speed, that's it.

The world needs ditch diggers too.

 

[cashman88]

Seems like the article is arguing that forcing kids (weaker kids) to play dodgeball is oppressive. The  game itself isn’t oppressive. If the school forced kids of different weight classes to box, all reasonable people would object to that. But boxing isn’t deemed oppressive, nor is football.