[Dynasty] 2014 Draft Prospects (1 Viewer)

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Central Florida has scheduled their pro day for March 19 at 1 pm EST.

Blake Bortles will be on full display, as will running back Strom Johnson. The quarterback will go through an orchestrated passing tree, and most usually consist of 50 attempts.


Source: Adam Caplan on Twitter

Alabama senior QB A.J. McCarron has an injured left shoulder, according to Jason Cole of the National Football Post.

Cole writes this is why McCarron decided to not attend the Senior Bowl. "Some people believe McCarron dropped out of the game because he did not want to test his arm against other quarterbacks who are believed to have stronger throwing ability," Cole added. So many players are nicked up during the season, some choose to attend all star events and others do the opposite.


Source: National Football Post

Eastern Illinois' Jimmy Garoppolo will be the sixth Senior Bowl QB, according to the National Football Post's Jason Cole.

Garoppolo joins Derek Carr and David Fales on the South roster, while Stephen Morris, Tajh Boyd, and Logan Thomas will play on the North squad. Garoppolo is currently attending the East-West Shrine Game, and even though some evaluators saw flashes from Jeff Mathews, Garoppolo's tape is much more impressive. He has a chance to land in the second day of the draft.


Source: National Football Post

 

[Faust]

Prospect Profile: Eastern Illinois QB Jimmy Garoppolo

By Dane Brugler | NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst

January 17, 2014 11:57 am ET

Entering the East-West Shrine Game week, I listed Eastern Illinois senior QB Jimmy Garoppolo as my top NFL prospect in St. Petersburg and through a week of practice, that won't change. He showed off a NFL arm, excellent eye use to scan the field and an extremely quick and efficient release - all attributes he showed on tape. Garoppolo, who measured in at 6-2 and 225 pounds, isn't a flawless prospect and also has some areas he needs to improve.

Coming from a spread, shotgun offensive attack at the FCS-level, there are some transition questions, but Garoppolo will be able to further answer those concerns at the Senior Bowl, suiting up on the South squad under the direction of the Jacksonville Jaguars coaching staff. He currently ranks as NFLDraftScout.com's No. 9 overall quarterback and No. 3 Senior Bowl quarterback, behind Fresno State's Derek Carr and San Jose State's David Fales, who are both also on the Senior Bowl's South Team.

Here is Garoppolo's full scouting report:

STRENGTHS: Good, not great, height, body type and hand size…better than adequate arm strength with a snap release that produces some juice – live arm with his experience coming from a pass-happy offense…excellent passing vision with quick eyes to scan and a quick, natural delivery – gets the ball out quick…smart and executes the offense well – quick intellectual process on the football field…above average timing with little unnecessary movements…quick feet to evade pressure with the pocket mobility to move his lower body with his eyes focused downfield…gets “happy feet” at times, but shows the ability to reset…very good touch and overall placement with improved accuracy to all levels of the field throughout his career…level-headed and always under control with a strong leadership presence…confident thrower and short memory…elite career production as a four-year starter at the FCS level, including a record-breaking senior season (won the 2013 Walter Payton Award) – broke almost all of Tony Romo's school records and leaves the college ranks with 13,156 passing yards and 118 passing touchdowns in his career.

WEAKNESSES: Lack of elite velocity will show on some NFL throws…needs to continue to improve his decision-making and not allow pressure to severely alter his process – bad habit of forcing throws in small windows…lower-than-ideal release point with an almost side-arm motion at times…needs to get his feet under control on a consistent basis and regularly step into his throws…needs to continue and develop his pocket awareness and internal clock to feel pressure…holds the ball too long at times and will take unnecessary hits…experience is in a FCS spread, shotgun attack, needs to become more acclimated with under-center snaps.

SUMMARY: A late bloomer, Garoppolo didn't receive much attention as a high school recruit, but he became the starter at Eastern Illinois midway through his freshman season and steadily improved his play and production ever since. He culminated his career with a record-breaking senior season, operating from a mostly shotgun, spread attack with a lot of quick-strike throws (screens, slants, etc.). Garoppolo is a very efficient and smart passer with lightning quickness between the time he takes the snap, makes a decision and gets the ball out of his hand. He lacks elite arm strength, but is more than adequate in this area and isn't afraid to test small windows. Garoppolo is appealing as a next level quarterback because of his eye use, timing and overall intellectual process as a passer – will benefit from NFL coaching and should continue to get better, projecting as a future NFL starter within 2-3 years.

WHAT NFL SCOUTS ARE SAYING: “His delivery is the best I've seen in the last five years. He sees the field, makes the read and gets the ball out fast. Everything is a tick faster in the league so that efficient delivery is a big coo for his NFL future.” – NFC North Scout

 

[nirad3]

Alabama senior QB A.J. McCarron has an injured left shoulder, according to Jason Cole of the National Football Post.

Cole writes this is why McCarron decided to not attend the Senior Bowl. "Some people believe McCarron dropped out of the game because he did not want to test his arm against other quarterbacks who are believed to have stronger throwing ability," Cole added. So many players are nicked up during the season, some choose to attend all star events and others do the opposite.


Source: National Football Post

Riiiiiight... if this guy had a bum shoulder they would have said it from the get-go especially since it's his non-throwing arm. What a ninny. I will not be touching him in any format.

 

[Faust]

Alabama senior QB A.J. McCarron has an injured left shoulder, according to Jason Cole of the National Football Post.

Cole writes this is why McCarron decided to not attend the Senior Bowl. "Some people believe McCarron dropped out of the game because he did not want to test his arm against other quarterbacks who are believed to have stronger throwing ability," Cole added. So many players are nicked up during the season, some choose to attend all star events and others do the opposite.


Source: National Football Post

Riiiiiight... if this guy had a bum shoulder they would have said it from the get-go especially since it's his non-throwing arm. What a ninny. I will not be touching him in any format.

Rotoworld:

Former NFL scout John Middlekauff reports Alabama QB A.J. McCarron is skipping the Senior Bowl because he believes he'll already be a top-20 pick in May's draft.
Why not shoot for the No. 1 overall pick then? McCarron says he's skipping the event in Mobile, Ala. because of a non-throwing shoulder issue. NFL Network's plugged-in draft analyst Daniel Jeremiah reported earlier in the month that there is a "wide range" of opinions among NFL evaluators on McCarron. We see McCarron more as a game-manager type and a day-two selection.

Source: John Middlekauff on Twitter

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

ESPN's Mel Kiper slotted UCF QB Blake Bortles No. 4 to the Browns in his first mock draft.
After picking Johnny Manziel for the Texans, Kiper took Texas A&M OT Jake Matthews for the Rams and South Carolina DE Jadeveon Clowney at No. 3 for the Jaguars. Cleveland is known to be enamored with Manziel, but they may be forced to turn their focus elsewhere. "It goes without saying that Cleveland will look to address its QB situation through the draft or via a trade, and this is potentially a good fit for Bortles," Kiper wrote. "He's still somewhat limited as a progression passer and struggles with ball placement, and can also be rigid with his mechanics, but the presence of Josh Gordon and Jordan Cameron gives any new QB here matchup threats to exploit. Cleveland is, for the first time in a while, a really attractive environment for a young QB to grow and succeed."

Source: ESPN Insider

ESPN.com's Mel Kiper had Louisville QB Teddy Bridgewater dropping to the Vikings at No. 8 in a mock draft published earlier this week.
As Johnny Manziel's draft stock starts to sizzle, Bridgewater's has begun to fizzle. NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah even wrote earlier this week that "several" teams didn't have a first-round grade on him. "In terms of his ability as a passer, Bridgewater could go higher," Kiper wrote. "But while I currently have him rated as the top QB on my Big Board, Bridgewater will need to prove to teams that he can command an NFL huddle and be the face of a franchise. I think he has the necessary physical tools to succeed, and shows an advanced approach with his footwork, anticipation, pre-snap command and ability to improvise. He's a very good value here for a team with a huge need at the position. Whether he can start right away is a question we'll need more time to answer."

Source: ESPN Insider

NFL executives that spoke with ESPN's Adam Caplan believe Eastern Illinois QB Jimmy Garoppolo will go between Rounds 4-5.
The senior passer has a quick trigger and is adept at moving freely with debris flying around him. We liked the improvement we saw this season in Garoppolo's comfort level in the pocket. We think he could get picked in the third round. It's also conceivable that a team could fall in love with Garoppolo and pluck him in the second.

Source: Adam Caplan on Twitter

After speaking with NFL executives, ESPN's Adam Caplan believes Cornell senior QB Jeff Mathews will go between Rounds 5-7.
Sounds about right to us, though Mathews' stock could inhale helium if he blows away evaluators during the draft process. Mathews measured 6-foot-3 and 3 eighths of an inch and weighed in at 225 pounds at the East-West Shrine game. Mathews will continue to look spectacular in shorts -- as he displays accuracy, velocity, and anticipation, as well as Ivy League intelligence -- but his game deteriorates against pressure.

Source: Adam Caplan on Twitter

 

[lod01]

Rotoworld:

After speaking with NFL executives, ESPN's Adam Caplan believes Cornell senior QB Jeff Mathews will go between Rounds 5-7.
Sounds about right to us, though Mathews' stock could inhale helium if he blows away evaluators during the draft process. Mathews measured 6-foot-3 and 3 eighths of an inch and weighed in at 225 pounds at the East-West Shrine game. Mathews will continue to look spectacular in shorts -- as he displays accuracy, velocity, and anticipation, as well as Ivy League intelligence -- but his game deteriorates against pressure.

Source: Adam Caplan on Twitter

Who's game doesn't deteriorate vs pressure? look at Gomer Manning this year. Look at Brees vs Seattle. That is a big who cares. His OL this past yewar was worse than any NFL line in tearms of holes. He has a quick release and a strong accurate arm.

 

[Faust]

Mike Evans heads to California in an effort to get faster

 

[Faust]

Jimmy Garappolo's big week begins in East-West Shrine Game

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Rotoworld:

After speaking with NFL executives, ESPN's Adam Caplan believes Cornell senior QB Jeff Mathews will go between Rounds 5-7.

Sounds about right to us, though Mathews' stock could inhale helium if he blows away evaluators during the draft process. Mathews measured 6-foot-3 and 3 eighths of an inch and weighed in at 225 pounds at the East-West Shrine game. Mathews will continue to look spectacular in shorts -- as he displays accuracy, velocity, and anticipation, as well as Ivy League intelligence -- but his game deteriorates against pressure.

Source: Adam Caplan on Twitter

Who's game doesn't deteriorate vs pressure? look at Gomer Manning this year. Look at Brees vs Seattle. That is a big who cares. His OL this past yewar was worse than any NFL line in tearms of holes. He has a quick release and a strong accurate arm.

There is a school of thought that says how a college QB performs when the pocket breaks down is one predictor of future success in the NFL.

 

[Donnybrook]

AJ McCarron pulling out of the Senior Bowl has cleared a spot for Garoppolo.

‏

@dpbrugler

With Garoppolo locked in, the three QBs on the South roster are: Derek Carr, David Fales and Jimmy Garoppolo

Huge oppertunity for Jimmy to gain some ground on his competition. Of course, he needs to perform today as well.

 

[Xue]

Mike Evans heads to California in an effort to get faster

For those worried about Evans' speed, let's not forget DeAndre Hopkins ran an Official 4.57 (4.60 my measurement) last year.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

EW Shrine Game is starting on NFLN

 

[lod01]

Reedy drops long TD. Gotta catch it with your hands, not try and trap it against your body.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Jordan Lynch peed his pants on the first pressure he saw, threw a pick. I like him, but I don't know if it's gonna happen in the pros. Maybe in Canada.

A terrible read by Lynch delivers another pick/ 1/5 6 yards, 2 INT

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Names are a bit disappointing this year. The most entertaining ones are Seantavius Jones and Ja-mes Logan. I wonder if Ja-mes's mother stuttered when stating his name for the birth certificate?

 

[lod01]

Lynch stinks. He's super poor man's Tebow.

Garoppolo should be picked in the top 3 QBs but of course, NFL teams will fail and take guys like Carr over him. I'd take him over Bridgewater and Broles.

 

[lod01]

Nice running by this Perkins guy. Small though. 5'-7" 189 Sproles like. Catches the ball too.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

Jordan Lynch peed his pants on the first pressure he saw, threw a pick. I like him, but I don't know if it's gonna happen in the pros. Maybe in Canada.

A terrible read by Lynch delivers another pick/ 1/5 6 yards, 2 INT

Guy has no chance of being a quality NFL QB, but he's actually pretty perfect for being a CFL QB. Though maybe he can try the NFL at some other position? Not sure which one though.

 

[lyon812]

Rotoworld:

After speaking with NFL executives, ESPN's Adam Caplan believes Cornell senior QB Jeff Mathews will go between Rounds 5-7.
Sounds about right to us, though Mathews' stock could inhale helium if he blows away evaluators during the draft process. Mathews measured 6-foot-3 and 3 eighths of an inch and weighed in at 225 pounds at the East-West Shrine game. Mathews will continue to look spectacular in shorts -- as he displays accuracy, velocity, and anticipation, as well as Ivy League intelligence -- but his game deteriorates against pressure.

Source: Adam Caplan on Twitter

Who's game doesn't deteriorate vs pressure? look at Gomer Manning this year. Look at Brees vs Seattle. That is a big who cares. His OL this past yewar was worse than any NFL line in tearms of holes. He has a quick release and a strong accurate arm.

It's a matter of how much it deteriorates, not whether it deteriorates. Like Matt Ryan vs. Blaine Gabbert.

 

[Faust]

2014 Shrine Game: Garoppolo puts exclamation point on strong week

By Dane Brugler | NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst

January 18, 2014 7:09 pm ET

Gah-ropp-ah-low. If you don't know already, that's the correct pronunciation of Eastern Illinois QB Jimmy Garoppolo, who led the East squad past the West, 23-13, in the 89th East-West Shrine Game. Garoppolo earned MVP honors for his performance and it's important to learn his name because his NFL Draft arrow is pointing up.

Entering the week, Garoppolo was my top NFL prospect participating Florida-based all-star game. And he'll leave St. Petersburg with that same distinction after a very positive week. He finished Saturday's game 9-for-14 for 100 yards and a second quarter touchdown pass to Coastal Carolina WR Matt Hazel and put an exclamation point on a productive week. Garoppolo was the most impressive quarterback during practice, showing off his quick eyes, snap delivery and live arm to get the ball out and complete passes down the field. He scans the field well and his timing and overall intellectual process are above average as a passer. According to reports, Garoppolo will replace Alabama's A.J. McCarron in next week's Senior Bowl in Mobile.

Although he's not the tallest (6-foot-2) and lacks elite arm strength, Garoppolo is extremely quick and efficient through his delivery and process. He entered the Shrine Game week as a projected 2nd-3rd round pick and only helped himself in the eyes of NFL scouts. It wouldn't be a surprise to see Garoppolo sneak into the top-50 picks on draft weekend.

While Garoppolo was the headliner as the No. 1 prospect, here's a look at nine prospects who aren't too far behind in the rankings and helped themselves at the Shrine Game:

2. DL Will Clarke, West Virginia (6-6, 273, 4.83, #98)
Last weekend, I listed Clarke as my top defensive prospect in the game and a week later, that hasn't changed. He is a tall, flexible athlete with the long arms and natural bend to get around blockers and disrupt the pocket. Clarke got himself in trouble a few times when he popped up off the snap and lost initial leverage, but he has the explosive first step and length to be productive at the next level.

3. CB Pierre Desir, Lindenwood (6-1, 205, 4.56, #3)
It was an up-and-down week for Desir, who impressed in a few drills, but also struggled in others. He looks the part with a tall, long frame for a cornerback, but also showed the flexibility and balance you want for the position. Desir struggled at times to flip his hips or recover after false steps, but if he runs well at the Combine, look for Desir to be a hot commodity on day two of the NFL Draft.

4. DE Cassius Marsh, UCLA (6-4, 260, 4.92, #99)
When the flip is switched, Marsh is an active, disruptive force who can penetrate the pocket or string plays outside before making the stop. And his fiery attitude was on display in practice as he made several impressive stops in drills, fighting through blocks and tracking the ball. Marsh needs to stay motivated to allow that competitive streak show, but he's a force rushing the passer and stopping the run.

5. DT Justin Ellis, Louisiana Tech (6-2, 357, 5.34, #70)
Although he looks like a wide, stout nose tackle, Ellis is much more than that and showed it during practices. He has a quick first step and generates a lot of power from his initial surge to overwhelm blockers and bully his way into the pocket. Ellis also displayed active hands and even a spin move to maneuver his way past blocks, projecting him to either a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme.

6. WR Matt Hazel, Coastal Carolina (6-1, 196, 4.53, #84)
With Notre Dame's T.J. Jones pulling out of this week due to an injury, Hazel stepped up and separated himself as the top wide receiver in attendance. He displayed smooth routes, long strides and caught everything thrown his way throughout practice. Hazel, who also scored a touchdown in the game, was very productive throughout his college career and his skill-set translates well to the NFL level despite lacking elite size/speed for the position.

7. OL Dakota Dozier, Furman (6-4, 312, 5.20, #78)
A college left tackle, Dozier arrived in St. Petersburg and was moved to guard, but the transition went smooth as if he's been playing inside for years. He looked quick, balanced and controlled in his movements with the base strength and awareness to hold his ground and pick up extra blitzers. Dozier surfaced as the top offensive line prospect this week and is a darkhorse top-100 prospect.

8. QB Jeff Mathews, Cornell (6-4, 225, 4.93, #9)
If it weren't for Garoppolo, the quarterback talk would be all about Mathews and the week he had in St. Petersburg. He showed off his arm strength, passing vision and touch to all levels of the field and with his size, he fits what the NFL wants at the position. Mathews will hold the ball too long at times and needs to be more assertive, but he's a quality developmental quarterback who projects as a day three pick.

9. C Gabe Ikard, Oklahoma (6-3, 298, 5.17, #64)
As expect, Ikard struggled with power at times this week, especially when lined up across from DT Justin Ellis. But he also showed his strengths: flexibility to mirror and the quickness and smarts to quickly get into correct position and win with angles. Ikard won't be a fit for every offense, but will be a good fit in a mobile, zone-blocking system and will have a chance to further help himself at the Senior Bowl.

10. WR Chandler Jones, San Jose State (5-9, 180, 4.52, #89)
David Fales' favorite target this past season at San Jose State, Jones routinely stood out as the best pass-catcher on the West team. He showed excellent quickness in his breaks, running sharp, crisp routes and finding separation in space. Jones had a few drops, but his natural body control and coordination was impressive as he produced a game-best seven catches for 73 yards on Saturday.

Just missed: ILB Tyler Starr (South Dakota), OT Charles Leno (Boise State), DT Jay Bromley (Syracuse), CB Nevin Lawson (Utah State), DE/TE Larry Webster (Bloomsburg), WR Jeremy Gallon (Michigan), QB Keith Wenning (Ball State), CB Phillip Gaines (Rice), OL Laurent Duvernay-Tardif (McGill), DE Kerry Wynn (Richmond), CB Ricardo Allen (Purdue), ILB DeDe Lattimore (South Florida), WR Bernard Reedy (Toledo), DE Ethan Westbrooks (West Texas A&M), TE Jordan Najvar (Baylor), DE Devon Kennard (USC)

 

[Milkman]

Wow Seastrunk falling like a rock in draft scouts rb rankings.........

Their top 10

Carey

Mason

Hyde

Sankey

Hill

Sims

Freeman

Seastrunk

West

Williams

 

[Concept Coop]

Wow Seastrunk falling like a rock in draft scouts rb rankings.........

For some reason, us fantasy owners were always higher on him than the draftniks. The good news is that we should be able to target him later than we thought.

 

[Bob Magaw]

Wow Seastrunk falling like a rock in draft scouts rb rankings.........

For some reason, us fantasy owners were always higher on him than the draftniks. The good news is that we should be able to target him later than we thought.

If he blows up the combine, it could put him in the second (a popular one for the top RBs last year) or third round. If the writer who does the annual freak list is accurate, he could put up an excellent 40 time and a spectacular, Christine Michael-like vertical jump. Early rankings can be all over the place, where he lands and his expected role and competition will ultimately determine his fantasy standing in the class of '14.

 

[Brewtown]

Wow Seastrunk falling like a rock in draft scouts rb rankings.........

For some reason, us fantasy owners were always higher on him than the draftniks. The good news is that we should be able to target him later than we thought.

Charles Sims over Seastrunk and Freeman? I don't see it...

Every list is gonna be slightly different...

Real sharks "will trust your swing".

 

[Milkman]

Personally I'm really high on Sims. Watching his tape it seems to me like he will have a pretty smooth transition to the nfl. Great hands, powerful runner, fluid, prototypical size........ He has the potential to end up being the best rb out of this class. He's not flashy like Seastrunk but he's smooth.

I like freeman a lot too though. I'm a little worried he might be to small for a 3 down back roll. Still could be a great 3rd down back.

 

[EBF]

Mocks are just that: mocks. We won't know the draft position until...you know...the actual draft.

I would be a little discouraged on Seastrunk if he slipped out of the first frame, but it's important to remember that there are two games here. BEING a first round pick is nice, but PLAYING like a first round pick is what's most important. Ray Rice, MJD, LeSean McCoy, and Jamaal Charles weren't first round picks. In hindsight they were first round talents though.

It wouldn't be the end of the world if Seastrunk went 55th instead of 25th. It would put him in a different class from a generic odds standpoint, but ultimately it's how performs that matters, so if you like him as one of the top rookies in this draft then you should probably stick to your guns for the most part even if he slips a little bit (I'm talking 2nd round, not falling to the 6th ala Jon Dwyer).

 

[voiceofunreason]

Wow Seastrunk falling like a rock in draft scouts rb rankings.........

Their top 10

Carey

Mason

Hyde

Sankey

Hill

Sims

Freeman

Seastrunk

West

Williams

I know a lot of people love Carey but I really don't see it. He makes good decisions and he's tough for his size but he seems like a really average talent to me. Am I missing something?

 

[Milkman]

Yeah i kind of agree and i would be surprised if he was the first rb off the board. In his defense he has been very productive.

 

[coolnerd]

Wow Seastrunk falling like a rock in draft scouts rb rankings.........

For some reason, us fantasy owners were always higher on him than the draftniks. The good news is that we should be able to target him later than we thought.

Many of the posters on this board favor measurable traits and seeing explosive plays over more subtle football skill things such as picking holes correctly, vision, not having negative plays, blocking than so-called real scouts do.

 

[MAC_32]

Wow Seastrunk falling like a rock in draft scouts rb rankings.........

For some reason, us fantasy owners were always higher on him than the draftniks. The good news is that we should be able to target him later than we thought.

Many of the posters on this board favor measurable traits and seeing explosive plays over more subtle football skill things such as picking holes correctly, vision, not having negative plays, blocking than so-called real scouts do.

agreed, but this is exactly why I am puzzled scouts aren't more interested in him. There are unknowns from tape, but his explosion through the hole is special. The Baylor offense hums when he is in and often sputters when he is out. I get many might not be comfortable with him given all of the unknowns from tape study, but I'd think there would at least be a couple that are too intrigued by him to say no.This reeks of groupthink right now IMHO, I think someone sticks their neck about him at some point once they have studied enough tape.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

football skill things such as picking holes correctly, vision, not having negative plays, blocking than so-called real scouts do.

Are you suggesting that picking the right hole, having vision and avoiding negative plays aren't represented by a back's statistical body of work?

And for the sake of argument, if you watched film and counted those things (plus blocking) couldn't they be incorporated into "measurables"?

 

[coolnerd]

Wow Seastrunk falling like a rock in draft scouts rb rankings.........

For some reason, us fantasy owners were always higher on him than the draftniks. The good news is that we should be able to target him later than we thought.

Many of the posters on this board favor measurable traits and seeing explosive plays over more subtle football skill things such as picking holes correctly, vision, not having negative plays, blocking than so-called real scouts do.

agreed, but this is exactly why I am puzzled scouts aren't more interested in him. There are unknowns from tape, but his explosion through the hole is special. The Baylor offense hums when he is in and often sputters when he is out. I get many might not be comfortable with him given all of the unknowns from tape study, but I'd think there would at least be a couple that are too intrigued by him to say no.This reeks of groupthink right now IMHO, I think someone sticks their neck about him at some point once they have studied enough tape.

I am sure I have seen at points during the season Seastrunk ranked as 1 or 2 on a couple boards, but really even then he was/is not talked about any way that suggest the people who like think he is the unquestioned best prospect in the draft. another thing to consider is that a FF player is looking for the guy with the highest upside where I would argue that many, if not most teams are trying to get some combination of immediate impact and specific roles that may not point to taking a guy with a 10% better chance of greatness over his mates who have a lesser chance of downside than a Seastrunk might have.

 

[MAC_32]

That's why I think there will be many that stay away, juice isn't worth the squeeze. I think there will be a couple willing to roll the dice though, just not sure who and when the favorable reports will come. He doesn't have any bad tape, just unproven skills. Doesn't mean he can't do it, it just means he hasn't yet.

 

[coolnerd]

football skill things such as picking holes correctly, vision, not having negative plays, blocking than so-called real scouts do.

Are you suggesting that picking the right hole, having vision and avoiding negative plays aren't represented by a back's statistical body of work?

And for the sake of argument, if you watched film and counted those things (plus blocking) couldn't they be incorporated into "measurables"?

I am suggesting that the very best talent evaluators on this board are not good as discerning football skill over athletic traits as even an average NFL scout. Regular guys just don't have access to seeing players live, at practice and in all-22 tape that we do. Not meant some slam.

Also, see the previous post where I also suggest we as a group are more willing to bet on upside versus NFL teams worrying about the downside.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

football skill things such as picking holes correctly, vision, not having negative plays, blocking than so-called real scouts do.

Are you suggesting that picking the right hole, having vision and avoiding negative plays aren't represented by a back's statistical body of work?

And for the sake of argument, if you watched film and counted those things (plus blocking) couldn't they be incorporated into "measurables"?

I am suggesting that the very best talent evaluators on this board are not good as discerning football skill over athletic traits as even an average NFL scout. Regular guys just don't have access to seeing players live, at practice and in all-22 tape that we do. Not meant some slam.

Also, see the previous post where I also suggest we as a group are more willing to bet on upside versus NFL teams worrying about the downside.

100% agree with the last bit. NFL teams (especially the good ones) are obsessed with "assignments" -- which we don't care about at all, except as they relate to getting/staying on the field. And they have millions at stake, so the risk profiles are different too.

And I didn't take your comment as a slam at all. I was just trying to find out what a scout might see that can't be counted? Aside from character/medical/work ethic/psycological health type stuff.

Picking the right hole, making guys miss, outrunning a would-be tackler to the edge, breaking tackles, making a good decision to get three yards instead of breaking it outside, etc etc -- I've yet to hear a proponent of subjective scouting name anything that can't be recorded and analyzed. There will be some subjectivity inherent in the recording process, but that stuff can be largely standardized with a committment to training and review.

 

[Faust]

2014 NFL Draft: Five standouts from NFLPA Collegiate Bowl

 

[lod01]

Wow Seastrunk falling like a rock in draft scouts rb rankings.........

Their top 10

Carey

Mason

Hyde

Sankey

Hill

Sims

Freeman

Seastrunk

West

Williams

I know a lot of people love Carey but I really don't see it. He makes good decisions and he's tough for his size but he seems like a really average talent to me. Am I missing something?

I don't think so. He can't be the type of back that carries the team. Get him with a QB that can get him the ball however, and he can be a stud. If a team like SF needed a RB and took him, he would be pedestrian. He needs a QB that throws to the RB.

 

[Time Kibitzer]

These mock drafts and early draft rankings by the media are completely missing the boat on Seastrunk imo. NFLdraftscout currently has him going in the 3rd-4th, but there's just no way he falls that far. If one of these top RB prospects is gonna blow up the combine, it's gonna be Seastrunk. I fully expect him to weigh in well, and to be among the RB leaders in the 40 and 3cone, after which point these media people will say he's rising up draft rankings, even though these skills should have been completely obvious to anyone who has watched him.

The guy is simply more dynamic than any RB in this draft. He needs to catch the ball well at the combine, no doubt about that. But if he does that there's no way he doesn't go in the 2nd round at the latest.

 

[coolnerd]

football skill things such as picking holes correctly, vision, not having negative plays, blocking than so-called real scouts do.

Are you suggesting that picking the right hole, having vision and avoiding negative plays aren't represented by a back's statistical body of work?

And for the sake of argument, if you watched film and counted those things (plus blocking) couldn't they be incorporated into "measurables"?

I am suggesting that the very best talent evaluators on this board are not good as discerning football skill over athletic traits as even an average NFL scout. Regular guys just don't have access to seeing players live, at practice and in all-22 tape that we do. Not meant some slam.

Also, see the previous post where I also suggest we as a group are more willing to bet on upside versus NFL teams worrying about the downside.

100% agree with the last bit. NFL teams (especially the good ones) are obsessed with "assignments" -- which we don't care about at all, except as they relate to getting/staying on the field. And they have millions at stake, so the risk profiles are different too.

And I didn't take your comment as a slam at all. I was just trying to find out what a scout might see that can't be counted? Aside from character/medical/work ethic/psycological health type stuff.

Picking the right hole, making guys miss, outrunning a would-be tackler to the edge, breaking tackles, making a good decision to get three yards instead of breaking it outside, etc etc -- I've yet to hear a proponent of subjective scouting name anything that can't be recorded and analyzed. There will be some subjectivity inherent in the recording process, but that stuff can be largely standardized with a committment to training

One of the few things football is behind on versus the other team sports is advance analytics, so the measurement of skill is not out there anywhere even with the handful of sites/organization that have really tried, it has seemingly yielded things that don't match to on the field and/or fantasy production any predictive, usuable way. I think you are speaking a number guy as you want them to be versus there really is a true metric somewhere showing that Tre Mason actual ability to see the hole out on the backside of play than better Freeman or Carey or Stankey. Watching football players actually play if you are in the talent evaluation business is skill a needed evil because of 22 moving parts occurring in a really short 3-5 span of time.

BTW, I actually believe that the NFL can do more in the ways of measurement and analytics, just not that everything anyone needs to know can be gained just analyzing numbers.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

These mock drafts and early draft rankings by the media are completely missing the boat on Seastrunk imo. NFLdraftscout currently has him going in the 3rd-4th, but there's just no way he falls that far. If one of these top RB prospects is gonna blow up the combine, it's gonna be Seastrunk. I fully expect him to weigh in well, and to be among the RB leaders in the 40 and 3cone, after which point these media people will say he's rising up draft rankings, even though these skills should have been completely obvious to anyone who has watched him.

The guy is simply more dynamic than any RB in this draft. He needs to catch the ball well at the combine, no doubt about that. But if he does that there's no way he doesn't go in the 2nd round at the latest.

Exactly what I've been saying. He'll be a "riser" after the combine, except to, you know, anyone who's been paying attention.If he looks natural catching the ball at the combine, he's Gio Bernard on steroids.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

you want them to be versus there really is a true metric somewhere showing that Tre Mason actual ability to see the hole out on the backside of play than better Freeman or Carey or Stankey.

Well, sort of. What I'm saying is that if you can watch Mason and see that he sees the hole on the backside of the play you can count that. And you compare the number of times he sees the hole vs the number of times some other RB does (on the same number of carries).

But currently subjective scouts like to act like seeing that is mystical. Well, no. If you can see it, you can count it. And if you can count it you can compare it to other players and combine it with all the other things you can count to get a damn good read on a player. No magic eyes required.

 

[coolnerd]

you want them to be versus there really is a true metric somewhere showing that Tre Mason actual ability to see the hole out on the backside of play than better Freeman or Carey or Stankey.

Well, sort of. What I'm saying is that if you can watch Mason and see that he sees the hole on the backside of the play you can count that. And you compare the number of times he sees the hole vs the number of times some other RB does (on the same number of carries).

But currently subjective scouts like to act like seeing that is mystical. Well, no. If you can see it, you can count it. And if you can count it you can compare it to other players and combine it with all the other things you can count to get a damn good read on a player. No magic eyes required.

the biggest thing that tape is needed for is causation. We can not only measure how much, but probably how quickly also, but does this answer reasons? Did Mason cut-back better because the design of the play or because the defense was giving it to him or he did not trust his speed to get to the corner or he is just damn good at cutting back or should he have not cut back in these situations? going Mason is better at cut-backs is nice, but what does the mean for me as football fan of a team or fantasy player? yes, he has a specific football skill, but how does that translate into yards and TDs...i.e. fantasy points.

 

[Brewtown]

All 6-7 of these backs are good! Seastrunk may be the 6th best back but he still may ba a stud! This class is loaded with stud RB talent...

Being 6th on this list is not a bad thing!!

 

[Brewtown]

I keep seeing people talk about passing the top RBs in this class for Sammy Watkins and I just don't get it. I like Watkins as much as anyone, but I know how hard it is to get a RB!!!! If you get a high pick you have to use it to get a RB! Running backs are like diamonds and WRs are like clearance DVDs at Wal-Mart - there is a whole bin full of them available!!

In my dynasty rookie drafts Watkins will be available at pick 7.....

 

[Faust]

2014 NFL Draft: A record 98 underclassmen eligible for draft

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I keep seeing people talk about passing the top RBs in this class for Sammy Watkins and I just don't get it. I like Watkins as much as anyone, but I know how hard it is to get a RB!!!! If you get a high pick you have to use it to get a RB! Running backs are like diamonds and WRs are like clearance DVDs at Wal-Mart - there is a whole bin full of them available!!

In my dynasty rookie drafts Watkins will be available at pick 7.....

Unless a talented RB lands in an amazing spot, I would take Watkins #1 overall in this year's fantasy drafts.

 

[ILUVBEER99]

I keep seeing people talk about passing the top RBs in this class for Sammy Watkins and I just don't get it. I like Watkins as much as anyone, but I know how hard it is to get a RB!!!! If you get a high pick you have to use it to get a RB! Running backs are like diamonds and WRs are like clearance DVDs at Wal-Mart - there is a whole bin full of them available!!

In my dynasty rookie drafts Watkins will be available at pick 7.....

Unless a talented RB lands in an amazing spot, I would take Watkins #1 overall in this year's fantasy drafts.

I agree Sammy is the #1 prospect at this time but he isn't an AJ Green/Julio/Calvin/Demaryuis/Dez type prospect. He's very very good but not the man-beast that the top WR's of today are.

The draft process is just starting but once it's all said and done if a RB gets drafted in the late 1st/early 2nd to a great situation the consensus could easily change as to who the #1 pick should be. In fact i'm pretty confident when rookie drafts get going that Watkins won't be looked at as the slam dunk #1 pick.

 

[Bob Magaw]

It might be useful to make a distinction between what we think and how they are viewed as prospects. Maybe Watkins won't be as good as Thomas and Bryant. But based on where they went in the draft, and where Watkins is likely to, it would seem scouts have assigned him a higher grade at a comparable stage of development (part of their overall grade was shaped by questions about whether Bryant might have off field issues, and Georgia Tech's unorthodox scheme in the case of Thomas). His freshman campaign was one of the best ever at any position in NCAA history (only WR to be first team AP All American as true freshman - only others Herschel Walker, Marshall Faulk and Adrian Peyetson, excellent company).

 

[ILUVBEER99]

It might be useful to make a distinction between what we think and how they are viewed as prospects. Maybe Watkins won't be as good as Thomas and Bryant. But based on where they went in the draft, and where Watkins is likely to, it would seem scouts have assigned him a higher grade at a comparable stage of development (part of their overall grade was shaped by questions about whether Bryant might have off field issues, and Georgia Tech's unorthodox scheme in the case of Thomas). His freshman campaign was one of the best ever at any position in NCAA history (only WR to be first team AP All American as true freshman - only others Herschel Walker, Marshall Faulk and Adrian Peyetson, excellent company).

Going into the nfl draft Watkins will definitely be viewed more favorably than dez/DT were.

My point is the guys who end up FF beasts in today's nfl are cut from a different body type, which Sammy doesn't possess.

I love Sammy and would take him #1, but in rookie drafts people always fall in love with the rookie rb in a good spot. It happens every year.

 

[Brewtown]

It might be useful to make a distinction between what we think and how they are viewed as prospects. Maybe Watkins won't be as good as Thomas and Bryant. But based on where they went in the draft, and where Watkins is likely to, it would seem scouts have assigned him a higher grade at a comparable stage of development (part of their overall grade was shaped by questions about whether Bryant might have off field issues, and Georgia Tech's unorthodox scheme in the case of Thomas). His freshman campaign was one of the best ever at any position in NCAA history (only WR to be first team AP All American as true freshman - only others Herschel Walker, Marshall Faulk and Adrian Peyetson, excellent company).

Going into the nfl draft Watkins will definitely be viewed more favorably than dez/DT were.

My point is the guys who end up FF beasts in today's nfl are cut from a different body type, which Sammy doesn't possess.

I love Sammy and would take him #1, but in rookie drafts people always fall in love with the rookie rb in a good spot. It happens every year.

It should happen!

Running backs are like diamonds and WRs are like clearance DVDs at Wal-Mart - there is a whole bin full of them available!!