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Earliest You Will Consider Matt Ryan (1 Viewer)

I draft on Labor Day. I have the 4th pick in my 12 team (6 point passing TDs) league. Rodgers will go in the top 3 picks, and I will take whoever is left for me between Rice and McCoy at pick # 4. Here's the thing though, I absolutely know that the guy who picks # 3 in my league is in love with Ryan, and there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that he will grab Ryan early 3rd round (at pick # 27---if he isn't gone already that is). Which means if I want Matty Ice, I have to take him at pick # 21 overall. I know that sounds absurd, but is it really ?? If I believe that Ryan will be a top 5 guy, and Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Stafford and Newton all go in the top 20, how crazy is it to take Ryan at # 21 ? I look at my most recent version of the Draft Dominator, and Ryan is now ranked at # 5 (ahead of Newton). If I decide to wait on my QB (and look at guys like Cutler, RG3, Flacco, etc... in a QBBC), then I just KNOW that each week I am going to pick the wrong guy--and leave the better choice on my bench. Bluntly, that is one of the reasons I have always preferred to grab an "elite" QB. Not certain that I will take the plunge into the [Matty] ice, but I don't think it is as crazy of an idea (taking him late 2nd) as it would appear to be at first glance.
see this is the call some people will have to make....do you take him 2.09 (or somewhere around there)....you maybe wouldn't have a problem at taking him at 3.04, but you know he won't be there......the guys at the top of the draft will have been able to secure a some type of RB/WR combo with their first two picks, so they won't have a problem taking Ryan as their 3rd pick....these are the scenerios that are continuing to bump up his ADP right now....so now his ADP climbs even higher cause guys may have to jump and take him in the second...so Keith has to ask himself "if I want him, is there a huge difference between 2.09 and 3.04?"...yeah it's only 6 picks, but some good players will go in that range including Ryan....so do you just bite the bullet and do it.....heck if you do pull the trigger at 2.09....the guys at the top of the draft, except the Rodgers owner, might follow suit and grab QB's themselves, allowing a player at another position that you might have liked to get at 2.09 to fall back to you at 3.04....but maybe not....sounds like there is no way he makes it out of the 3rd round right now....I got 1.08 in one of my two main leagues this weekend.......no way he makes it back to 3.08 IMO...so I am in the same boat....so while I love him this year......just not sure I can pull the trigger in the 2nd.....if he makes it to the third I would call it gravy.....trouble is, depending on how things go, I may already have a QB with one of my first two picks...
The problem with taking Ryan that early is when you face a team with a healthy Vick (taken 3-4 rounds later) and 2nd round RB (compared to your 5th round RB) you are going to get outscored.Unless Ryan hits 4,000+ yards and 40 TD passes, I don't see this as a winning strategy.
see the other thing I would actually see happening is a snow ball effect....if Ryan goes in rounds 2 or 3...I don't think there is any way that Vick lasts 3-4 rounds past that.....his leapfrogging guys like Vick (who many considered possibly the #1 overall pick going into last year) will cause people to jump on Vick almost IMMEDIATELY afterwards....Ryan's rise I think may actually increase the ADP of everybody else behind him.....because in theory you have taken a 2nd tier guy and elevated him to almost the 1st tier elite level....those not getting a top guy won't want to be fighting through the scraps of the second tier guys so they may pull the trigger on the second tier guys before they normally would.....hope that made sense...
 
I draft on Labor Day. I have the 4th pick in my 12 team (6 point passing TDs) league. Rodgers will go in the top 3 picks, and I will take whoever is left for me between Rice and McCoy at pick # 4. Here's the thing though, I absolutely know that the guy who picks # 3 in my league is in love with Ryan, and there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that he will grab Ryan early 3rd round (at pick # 27---if he isn't gone already that is). Which means if I want Matty Ice, I have to take him at pick # 21 overall. I know that sounds absurd, but is it really ?? If I believe that Ryan will be a top 5 guy, and Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Stafford and Newton all go in the top 20, how crazy is it to take Ryan at # 21 ? I look at my most recent version of the Draft Dominator, and Ryan is now ranked at # 5 (ahead of Newton). If I decide to wait on my QB (and look at guys like Cutler, RG3, Flacco, etc... in a QBBC), then I just KNOW that each week I am going to pick the wrong guy--and leave the better choice on my bench. Bluntly, that is one of the reasons I have always preferred to grab an "elite" QB. Not certain that I will take the plunge into the [Matty] ice, but I don't think it is as crazy of an idea (taking him late 2nd) as it would appear to be at first glance.
see this is the call some people will have to make....do you take him 2.09 (or somewhere around there)....you maybe wouldn't have a problem at taking him at 3.04, but you know he won't be there......the guys at the top of the draft will have been able to secure a some type of RB/WR combo with their first two picks, so they won't have a problem taking Ryan as their 3rd pick....these are the scenerios that are continuing to bump up his ADP right now....so now his ADP climbs even higher cause guys may have to jump and take him in the second...so Keith has to ask himself "if I want him, is there a huge difference between 2.09 and 3.04?"...yeah it's only 6 picks, but some good players will go in that range including Ryan....so do you just bite the bullet and do it.....heck if you do pull the trigger at 2.09....the guys at the top of the draft, except the Rodgers owner, might follow suit and grab QB's themselves, allowing a player at another position that you might have liked to get at 2.09 to fall back to you at 3.04....but maybe not....sounds like there is no way he makes it out of the 3rd round right now....I got 1.08 in one of my two main leagues this weekend.......no way he makes it back to 3.08 IMO...so I am in the same boat....so while I love him this year......just not sure I can pull the trigger in the 2nd.....if he makes it to the third I would call it gravy.....trouble is, depending on how things go, I may already have a QB with one of my first two picks...
The problem with taking Ryan that early is when you face a team with a healthy Vick (taken 3-4 rounds later) and 2nd round RB (compared to your 5th round RB) you are going to get outscored.Unless Ryan hits 4,000+ yards and 40 TD passes, I don't see this as a winning strategy.
see the other thing I would actually see happening is a snow ball effect....if Ryan goes in rounds 2 or 3...I don't think there is any way that Vick lasts 3-4 rounds past that.....his leapfrogging guys like Vick (who many considered possibly the #1 overall pick going into last year) will cause people to jump on Vick almost IMMEDIATELY afterwards....Ryan's rise I think may actually increase the ADP of everybody else behind him.....because in theory you have taken a 2nd tier guy and elevated him to almost the 1st tier elite level....those not getting a top guy won't want to be fighting through the scraps of the second tier guys so they may pull the trigger on the second tier guys before they normally would.....hope that made sense...
In many leagues, it seems Ryan's value is extremely high while Vick's value has fallen due to injury concerns. In the league I own Vick, Ryan was a third rounder and I wasn't even targeting Vick. In the 6th round, I couldn't pass him up. I took RG3 a couple rounds later as insurance.
 
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4 PT Passing TDs12 teams, 5th round10 teams, 7th roundWhich means he wont be on any of my teams this year. I'm targeting Vick if I miss out on the top 5. If I miss Vick, I'm going deep QBBC.
I realize 4 pt passing TD's is what this hobby was built on and there are some (even prominent) leagues that still use them....I have never played in one and while I don't have the stats, I would be willing to bet they are now more the exception than the rule.....every comment I usually make is with 6 point passing TD's in mind....IMO...4 point passing TD's changes almost everything about the QB discussion....
 
I draft on Labor Day. I have the 4th pick in my 12 team (6 point passing TDs) league. Rodgers will go in the top 3 picks, and I will take whoever is left for me between Rice and McCoy at pick # 4. Here's the thing though, I absolutely know that the guy who picks # 3 in my league is in love with Ryan, and there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever, that he will grab Ryan early 3rd round (at pick # 27---if he isn't gone already that is). Which means if I want Matty Ice, I have to take him at pick # 21 overall. I know that sounds absurd, but is it really ?? If I believe that Ryan will be a top 5 guy, and Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Stafford and Newton all go in the top 20, how crazy is it to take Ryan at # 21 ? I look at my most recent version of the Draft Dominator, and Ryan is now ranked at # 5 (ahead of Newton). If I decide to wait on my QB (and look at guys like Cutler, RG3, Flacco, etc... in a QBBC), then I just KNOW that each week I am going to pick the wrong guy--and leave the better choice on my bench. Bluntly, that is one of the reasons I have always preferred to grab an "elite" QB. Not certain that I will take the plunge into the [Matty] ice, but I don't think it is as crazy of an idea (taking him late 2nd) as it would appear to be at first glance.
see this is the call some people will have to make....do you take him 2.09 (or somewhere around there)....you maybe wouldn't have a problem at taking him at 3.04, but you know he won't be there......the guys at the top of the draft will have been able to secure a some type of RB/WR combo with their first two picks, so they won't have a problem taking Ryan as their 3rd pick....these are the scenerios that are continuing to bump up his ADP right now....so now his ADP climbs even higher cause guys may have to jump and take him in the second...so Keith has to ask himself "if I want him, is there a huge difference between 2.09 and 3.04?"...yeah it's only 6 picks, but some good players will go in that range including Ryan....so do you just bite the bullet and do it.....heck if you do pull the trigger at 2.09....the guys at the top of the draft, except the Rodgers owner, might follow suit and grab QB's themselves, allowing a player at another position that you might have liked to get at 2.09 to fall back to you at 3.04....but maybe not....sounds like there is no way he makes it out of the 3rd round right now....I got 1.08 in one of my two main leagues this weekend.......no way he makes it back to 3.08 IMO...so I am in the same boat....so while I love him this year......just not sure I can pull the trigger in the 2nd.....if he makes it to the third I would call it gravy.....trouble is, depending on how things go, I may already have a QB with one of my first two picks...
The problem with taking Ryan that early is when you face a team with a healthy Vick (taken 3-4 rounds later) and 2nd round RB (compared to your 5th round RB) you are going to get outscored.Unless Ryan hits 4,000+ yards and 40 TD passes, I don't see this as a winning strategy.
see the other thing I would actually see happening is a snow ball effect....if Ryan goes in rounds 2 or 3...I don't think there is any way that Vick lasts 3-4 rounds past that.....his leapfrogging guys like Vick (who many considered possibly the #1 overall pick going into last year) will cause people to jump on Vick almost IMMEDIATELY afterwards....Ryan's rise I think may actually increase the ADP of everybody else behind him.....because in theory you have taken a 2nd tier guy and elevated him to almost the 1st tier elite level....those not getting a top guy won't want to be fighting through the scraps of the second tier guys so they may pull the trigger on the second tier guys before they normally would.....hope that made sense...
yes it does. And judging by years past in my league, a likely result this year. I find at a live, in-person draft, crazy chit can happen--stuff that doesn't happen when everyone is drafting from a computer.
 
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To use the "Take Vick later" example...It's an argument that's very difficult for me to get on-board with and it's not even league specific either. If Ryan goes as QB6 , the remaining top options (generally speaking Vick, Romo, Rivers and Eli) do not always easily last another 3 or 4 rounds. For those saying, don't take Ryan, take for example a second WR, what's the guarantee that makes them definitively a better pick? For the purposes of the discussion, let's assume that Vick did indeed last 2 more rounds.

Picking RB/WR/WR/RB/QB and RB/WR/QB/RB/WR to suit the discussion on Ryan going early, you take Jennings in the 3rd (instead of Ryan) and Vick in the 5th instead of Ryan in the 3rd and say Antonio Brown in the 5th. Not unreasonable based on recent ADP. What is better?

Vick, Rice, RB2, White, Jennings

or

Ryan, Rice, RB2, White, Brown

On the face of it, some may prefer team 1 but what do you do when your starter is a waiver pickup because Vick is out for a month? In summary, Ryan in the 3rd over Vick in the 5th. Easily. If it were Eli on the other hand, i'd take Eli later. Feels safer. Guess it just depends on the availability of players and drafting tendencies in your league. Just my opinion FWIW.

 
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FTR, he went 1.12 in my $$ league (6pt tds, PPR) that drafted this week.
This Matt Ryan hype is reaching ludicrous speed. 1st round??? Crazy
I like Ryan a lot but that is berserk.
not at all... if you think of it this way....there is no way he makes it back to 3.12....especially if at 1.12 he was say the 4th, 5th, or 6th QB off the board....and you wanted into that "tier" that people are thinking he makes the jump into...
 
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FTR, he went 1.12 in my $$ league (6pt tds, PPR) that drafted this week.
This Matt Ryan hype is reaching ludicrous speed. 1st round??? Crazy
I like Ryan a lot but that is berserk.
not at all... if you think of it this way....there is no way he makes it back to 3.12....especially if at 1.12 he was say the 4th, 5th, or 6th QB off the board....and you wanted into that "tier" that people are thinking he makes the jump into...
I'd be curious to see the first 11 picks to see if he was taken ahead of Stafford or Newton which is ballsy and even if not, there had to be some stellar players there. There is a point where the value of taking him runs dry and that's pretty close to it. Some back off taking him in the 3rd or 4th which I personally am ok with, the first would take some faith that he makes a large leap into the 4300-4500 and 35+ td tier.
 
QBs definitely go early in some leagues. I got Ryan at 4.04 in a 12 team .5 ppr, 4 pt Passing TD, 2 keeper league this last Sunday (1st year, so no keepers). He was the 10th QB off the board. QB's went as follows.

1.04-Rodgers

1.05 Brees

1.06 Brady

1.07 Newton

1.11 Stafford

3.01 Eli

3.08 Peyton

3.10 Vick

4.01 RGIII

4.04 Ryan

4.11 Romo

7.03 Rivers

Rivers is undoubtedly great value in the 7th, but Ryan was my 6th rated QB and got him as QB10. Wasn't going to risk one of the other two teams without a QB taking him.

 
FTR, he went 1.12 in my $$ league (6pt tds, PPR) that drafted this week.
This Matt Ryan hype is reaching ludicrous speed. 1st round??? Crazy
I like Ryan a lot but that is berserk.
not at all... if you think of it this way....there is no way he makes it back to 3.12....especially if at 1.12 he was say the 4th, 5th, or 6th QB off the board....and you wanted into that "tier" that people are thinking he makes the jump into...
I'd be curious to see the first 11 picks to see if he was taken ahead of Stafford or Newton which is ballsy and even if not, there had to be some stellar players there. There is a point where the value of taking him runs dry and that's pretty close to it. Some back off taking him in the 3rd or 4th which I personally am ok with, the first would take some faith that he makes a large leap into the 4300-4500 and 35+ td tier.
thats the thing.....your draft spot has a big part in this discussion as well...it can really dictate when you would need to pull the trigger on him....my gut says that some owners (probably at least one in every draft) who are able to lock up some type of combo of RB/WR in the first two rounds will have no problem pulling the trigger on him in the third.....so plan accordinglyif there was more stability at RB this year and to a certain extent other positions...(like I'll use Fitzgerald as an example)....then maybe wanting to get elite level production from a QB would not be such a priority.....but even with a guy like Fitz who is a yearly figure at the top of the WR list and usually a bona fide 2nd round pick....he has questions because of shaky oline and QB play.....elite QB's are seeming to become safer early picks and that safety is tied into "value" still in some way for some owners.....having guys with question marks like ADP, Charles, Lynch, Trent Richardson, Mathews, Wallace, DMC, Chris Johnson, Forte (need I go on) that are usual figures in the top couple of rounds....makes it so elite QB play gets taken earlier.... and people are thinking Ryan takes that jump...
 
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I like Ryan a lot but that is berserk.
not at all... if you think of it this way....there is no way he makes it back to 3.12....especially if at 1.12 he was say the 4th, 5th, or 6th QB off the board....and you wanted into that "tier" that people are thinking he makes the jump into...
If Ryan isn't going to make it back to 3.12, then you go in a different direction. Matt Ryan is not essential to fantasy success this year. Someone will win their league without him as their QB. The value of Ryan is that you were "getting" top production in the 5th round. He no longer has that value, depending on the league. People are going to be bumping this thread either way, but everyone needs to make it clear where they think he deserves to be drafted. Any QB going in the first two (and maybe 3) rounds needs to be a candidate for top tier numbers. Not top 5, or top 6, but top tier. Last year, there were 5 guys in that tier. This year, I imagine the number will be different. Maybe only 4 guys are there, or maybe it is 6. But yelling at each other about Matt Ryan is very different when he was getting drafted in the 5th round, as opposed to the 2nd. Before it was, "I am not taking the Big 5, because I am getting Matt Ryan in the 4th/5th/6th....", thus making RBs and WRs stronger. Now it's, "Well, I had to get Matt Ryan at the 12/13 turn, because he would have never made it back to me...."He now offers no value, the same roster holes as taking any of the other Big 5, except the difference is that all 5 of the other guys have actually put up the numbers they are being drafted for.
 
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I read a really good article last night that builds a well-thought out case as to why Ryan is probably going to be severely overdrafted. So, I'm thinking I still don't take him until after Eli is off the board, wherever that may be, no questions asked.
Gosh, if only there was a way to link to an article... :mellow: ;)
A case for rethinking Matt Ryan as an "elite" QB
Unless I misunderstood, the article basically offered 2 reasons not to be high on Ryan. First was that he doesn't do well in the playoffs. After a paragraph discussing his playoff failings, the author then acknowledges that playoffs have nothing to do with the fantasy season. His second (and seemingly only other) point was that Ryan does not do well in head to head competition against other elite QBs. But given the fact that the FBG Stremgth of Schedule chart shows Ryan with THE EASIEST SCHEDULE OF ALL TEAMS, I'm not certain that the second "point" matters very much either.
 
I like Ryan a lot but that is berserk.
not at all... if you think of it this way....there is no way he makes it back to 3.12....especially if at 1.12 he was say the 4th, 5th, or 6th QB off the board....and you wanted into that "tier" that people are thinking he makes the jump into...
If Ryan isn't going to make it back to 3.12, then you go in a different direction. Matt Ryan is not essential to fantasy success this year. Someone will win their league without him as their QB. The value of Ryan is that you were "getting" top production in the 5th round. He no longer has that value, depending on the league. People are going to be bumping this thread either way, but everyone needs to make it clear where they think he deserves to be drafted. Any QB going in the first two (and maybe 3) rounds needs to be a candidate for top tier numbers. Not top 5, or top 6, but top tier. Last year, there were 5 guys in that tier. This year, I imagine the number will be different. Maybe only 4 guys are there, or maybe it is 6. But yelling at each other about Matt Ryan is very different when he was getting drafted in the 5th round, as opposed to the 2nd. Before it was, "I am not taking the Big 5, because I am getting Matt Ryan in the 4th/5th/6th....", thus making RBs and WRs stronger. Now it's, "Well, I had to get Matt Ryan at the 12/13 turn, because he would have never made it back to me...."He now offers no value, the same roster holes as taking any of the other Big 5, except the difference is that all 5 of the other guys have actually put up the numbers they are being drafted for.
not once in this thread did anybody saying taking Ryan in the first was value.....it just might be where you would have to take him if you wanted him....some might tie safety into value....some might not
 
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I like Ryan a lot but that is berserk.
not at all... if you think of it this way....there is no way he makes it back to 3.12....especially if at 1.12 he was say the 4th, 5th, or 6th QB off the board....and you wanted into that "tier" that people are thinking he makes the jump into...
If Ryan isn't going to make it back to 3.12, then you go in a different direction. Matt Ryan is not essential to fantasy success this year. Someone will win their league without him as their QB. The value of Ryan is that you were "getting" top production in the 5th round. He no longer has that value, depending on the league. People are going to be bumping this thread either way, but everyone needs to make it clear where they think he deserves to be drafted. Any QB going in the first two (and maybe 3) rounds needs to be a candidate for top tier numbers. Not top 5, or top 6, but top tier. Last year, there were 5 guys in that tier. This year, I imagine the number will be different. Maybe only 4 guys are there, or maybe it is 6. But yelling at each other about Matt Ryan is very different when he was getting drafted in the 5th round, as opposed to the 2nd. Before it was, "I am not taking the Big 5, because I am getting Matt Ryan in the 4th/5th/6th....", thus making RBs and WRs stronger. Now it's, "Well, I had to get Matt Ryan at the 12/13 turn, because he would have never made it back to me...."He now offers no value, the same roster holes as taking any of the other Big 5, except the difference is that all 5 of the other guys have actually put up the numbers they are being drafted for.
I would love to see the starting rosters of teams who took Ryan in the first two rounds. They are most likely in big trouble at RB, WR, or both. At least with Rodgers, Brady, or Brees you know you will get elite QB play. If Ryan ends up in the QB 7-8 range you are going to be in the basement or pretty close.
 
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I like Ryan a lot but that is berserk.
not at all... if you think of it this way....there is no way he makes it back to 3.12....especially if at 1.12 he was say the 4th, 5th, or 6th QB off the board....and you wanted into that "tier" that people are thinking he makes the jump into...
If Ryan isn't going to make it back to 3.12, then you go in a different direction. Matt Ryan is not essential to fantasy success this year. Someone will win their league without him as their QB. The value of Ryan is that you were "getting" top production in the 5th round. He no longer has that value, depending on the league. People are going to be bumping this thread either way, but everyone needs to make it clear where they think he deserves to be drafted. Any QB going in the first two (and maybe 3) rounds needs to be a candidate for top tier numbers. Not top 5, or top 6, but top tier. Last year, there were 5 guys in that tier. This year, I imagine the number will be different. Maybe only 4 guys are there, or maybe it is 6. But yelling at each other about Matt Ryan is very different when he was getting drafted in the 5th round, as opposed to the 2nd. Before it was, "I am not taking the Big 5, because I am getting Matt Ryan in the 4th/5th/6th....", thus making RBs and WRs stronger. Now it's, "Well, I had to get Matt Ryan at the 12/13 turn, because he would have never made it back to me...."He now offers no value, the same roster holes as taking any of the other Big 5, except the difference is that all 5 of the other guys have actually put up the numbers they are being drafted for.
I would love to see the starting rosters of teams who took Ryan in the first two rounds. They are most likely in big trouble at RB, WR, or both.
1.01 could net you something like Foster/Ryan/Marshall....I'd take it....
 
I like Ryan a lot but that is berserk.
not at all... if you think of it this way....there is no way he makes it back to 3.12....especially if at 1.12 he was say the 4th, 5th, or 6th QB off the board....and you wanted into that "tier" that people are thinking he makes the jump into...
If Ryan isn't going to make it back to 3.12, then you go in a different direction. Matt Ryan is not essential to fantasy success this year. Someone will win their league without him as their QB. The value of Ryan is that you were "getting" top production in the 5th round. He no longer has that value, depending on the league. People are going to be bumping this thread either way, but everyone needs to make it clear where they think he deserves to be drafted. Any QB going in the first two (and maybe 3) rounds needs to be a candidate for top tier numbers. Not top 5, or top 6, but top tier. Last year, there were 5 guys in that tier. This year, I imagine the number will be different. Maybe only 4 guys are there, or maybe it is 6. But yelling at each other about Matt Ryan is very different when he was getting drafted in the 5th round, as opposed to the 2nd. Before it was, "I am not taking the Big 5, because I am getting Matt Ryan in the 4th/5th/6th....", thus making RBs and WRs stronger. Now it's, "Well, I had to get Matt Ryan at the 12/13 turn, because he would have never made it back to me...."He now offers no value, the same roster holes as taking any of the other Big 5, except the difference is that all 5 of the other guys have actually put up the numbers they are being drafted for.
I would love to see the starting rosters of teams who took Ryan in the first two rounds. They are most likely in big trouble at RB, WR, or both.
1.01 could net you something like Foster/Ryan/Marshall....I'd take it....
So you would take Matt Ryan over someone like Jimmy Graham or Marshawn Lynch?
 
I like Ryan a lot but that is berserk.
not at all... if you think of it this way....there is no way he makes it back to 3.12....especially if at 1.12 he was say the 4th, 5th, or 6th QB off the board....and you wanted into that "tier" that people are thinking he makes the jump into...
If Ryan isn't going to make it back to 3.12, then you go in a different direction. Matt Ryan is not essential to fantasy success this year. Someone will win their league without him as their QB. The value of Ryan is that you were "getting" top production in the 5th round. He no longer has that value, depending on the league. People are going to be bumping this thread either way, but everyone needs to make it clear where they think he deserves to be drafted. Any QB going in the first two (and maybe 3) rounds needs to be a candidate for top tier numbers. Not top 5, or top 6, but top tier. Last year, there were 5 guys in that tier. This year, I imagine the number will be different. Maybe only 4 guys are there, or maybe it is 6. But yelling at each other about Matt Ryan is very different when he was getting drafted in the 5th round, as opposed to the 2nd. Before it was, "I am not taking the Big 5, because I am getting Matt Ryan in the 4th/5th/6th....", thus making RBs and WRs stronger. Now it's, "Well, I had to get Matt Ryan at the 12/13 turn, because he would have never made it back to me...."He now offers no value, the same roster holes as taking any of the other Big 5, except the difference is that all 5 of the other guys have actually put up the numbers they are being drafted for.
I would love to see the starting rosters of teams who took Ryan in the first two rounds. They are most likely in big trouble at RB, WR, or both.
1.01 could net you something like Foster/Ryan/Marshall....I'd take it....
and I believe that, taking Ryan in the 2nd (from the 4 slot) would net me McCoy/Ryan/Marshall. I'd be pretty happy to start my team off that way. Either way after the draft, basically your team is your team, and what particular round you drafted guys becomes, in my humble opinion, essentially irrelevant.
 
not once in this thread did anybody saying taking Ryan in the first was value.....it just might be where you would have to take him if you wanted him....
Right, and the point is, if you want him, and he's going at 12/13, then maybe an owner needs to change his strategy. The reason everyone was so excited about Ryan was because he offered value. There aren't threads on here with people holding a circle jerk about getting Brady at 1.07. Because he is supposed to go there, it's expected.If Ryan is going in the same neighborhood, then why bother? I really want Britt in all redrafts. At his current ADP. If he starts going at 2.02, then he loses value, and I don't think it's worth the risk.
 
If people want Matt Ryan on their team and are willing to take him in the second, go ahead and good luck.

I think it's crazy to use a top pick that could you net you a #1 TE, #1 WR, or #2 RB on a QB who hasn't thrown over 30 TDs in his career.

I'll take BPA in the second and take Rivers in the 7th while the Matt Ryan team ends up with Donald Brown as their #2 RB.

 
If people want Matt Ryan on their team and are willing to take him in the second, go ahead and good luck. I think it's crazy to use a top pick that could you net you a #1 TE, #1 WR, or #2 RB on a QB who hasn't thrown over 30 TDs in his career.I'll take BPA in the second and take Rivers in the 7th while the Matt Ryan team ends up with Donald Brown as their #2 RB.
this much is obviousit's a bit more interesting when you talk about the 4th round or 5th round
 
If people want Matt Ryan on their team and are willing to take him in the second, go ahead and good luck. I think it's crazy to use a top pick that could you net you a #1 TE, #1 WR, or #2 RB on a QB who hasn't thrown over 30 TDs in his career.I'll take BPA in the second and take Rivers in the 7th while the Matt Ryan team ends up with Donald Brown as their #2 RB.
this much is obviousit's a bit more interesting when you talk about the 4th round or 5th round
And irrelevant. In serious leagues, it looks like he is going pretty early. I say 'looks like' because I really don't know, but if he is going in the 2nd regularly? Sheesh.
 
FTR, he went 1.12 in my $$ league (6pt tds, PPR) that drafted this week.
This Matt Ryan hype is reaching ludicrous speed. 1st round??? Crazy
I like Ryan a lot but that is berserk.
not at all... if you think of it this way....there is no way he makes it back to 3.12....especially if at 1.12 he was say the 4th, 5th, or 6th QB off the board....and you wanted into that "tier" that people are thinking he makes the jump into...
I'd be curious to see the first 11 picks to see if he was taken ahead of Stafford or Newton which is ballsy and even if not, there had to be some stellar players there. There is a point where the value of taking him runs dry and that's pretty close to it. Some back off taking him in the 3rd or 4th which I personally am ok with, the first would take some faith that he makes a large leap into the 4300-4500 and 35+ td tier.
should've posted this in the original, but here's the rest of the first round:Rice, Ray RB BALMcCoy, LeSean RB PHI Rodgers, Aaron QB GBBrady, Tom QB NE Johnson, Calvin WR DETBrees, Drew QB NO Johnson, Chris RB TENGraham, Jimmy TE NO Sproles, Darren RB NO Johnson, Andre WR HOU Foster, Arian RB HOU Keeper league (foster at 11) and VERY qb-centric. Both stafford and cam were kept in later rds. QBs always go early in this league but this is the 1st time in 12 yrs we had 4 in the 1st rd
 
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I read a really good article last night that builds a well-thought out case as to why Ryan is probably going to be severely overdrafted. So, I'm thinking I still don't take him until after Eli is off the board, wherever that may be, no questions asked.
Gosh, if only there was a way to link to an article... :mellow: ;)
A case for rethinking Matt Ryan as an "elite" QB
Unless I misunderstood, the article basically offered 2 reasons not to be high on Ryan. First was that he doesn't do well in the playoffs. After a paragraph discussing his playoff failings, the author then acknowledges that playoffs have nothing to do with the fantasy season. His second (and seemingly only other) point was that Ryan does not do well in head to head competition against other elite QBs. But given the fact that the FBG Stremgth of Schedule chart shows Ryan with THE EASIEST SCHEDULE OF ALL TEAMS, I'm not certain that the second "point" matters very much either.
What he's saying is that (summarizing) given that the vast majority of people have White and Julio predicted to perform so well, that, mathmatically, in order to actually do that, Ryan would also have to perform as one of the truly "elites". But then he goes on to point out that Ryan has a very poor history of performing well when he tries to throw a lot like the elites do. Then he points out that the blind side protection for Ryan is BAD, that Ryan, to this point, has not shown a great pocket awareness in obvious passing situaitons, etc. In general, he's making a case that Ryan is a much better QB in a balanced game and that when they get to throwing a lot, bad things happen.The authors summing quote: "Ryan would do well to match last year’s numbers. A drop-off is far more likely than a jump to the elite level. And unless Ryan can make that improbable jump, there’s not an ice cream cone’s chance in hell that Jones and White are both going to finish as top-10 receivers."

I think the author makes a really good point. It's one thing to be able to look very efficient when you are running a lot and you can pass basically when you want to. But when your history of big games when you MUST throw a lot and It's all on you is:

24-of-41 passes for 199 yards (vs. NYG, 2011)

20-of-29 for 186 yards, with one TD pass and two interceptions (vs. GB, 2010)

you have to at least stop and think about this and wonder "if this guy just starts throwing all over the palce, is he going to be as effective?

Just another way of seeing a different side of the conversation before you pull the trigger on that draft pick.

That's why I said earlier, no matter what, I still don't draft Ryan before Eli is off the board because with Eli, I have the know proven production (I know he can do it) and I can argue that ELi has every bit the weapons to throw to and a better defense to support him. So, since Eli isn't going off the board as high as Ryan is in some of these conversations, I'm selling the idea.

 
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I read a really good article last night that builds a well-thought out case as to why Ryan is probably going to be severely overdrafted. So, I'm thinking I still don't take him until after Eli is off the board, wherever that may be, no questions asked.
Gosh, if only there was a way to link to an article... :mellow: ;)
A case for rethinking Matt Ryan as an "elite" QB
Unless I misunderstood, the article basically offered 2 reasons not to be high on Ryan. First was that he doesn't do well in the playoffs. After a paragraph discussing his playoff failings, the author then acknowledges that playoffs have nothing to do with the fantasy season. His second (and seemingly only other) point was that Ryan does not do well in head to head competition against other elite QBs. But given the fact that the FBG Stremgth of Schedule chart shows Ryan with THE EASIEST SCHEDULE OF ALL TEAMS, I'm not certain that the second "point" matters very much either.
What he's saying is that (summarizing) given that the vast majority of people have White and Julio predicted to perform so well, that, mathmatically, in order to actually do that, Ryan would also have to perform as one of the truly "elites". But then he goes on to point out that Ryan has a very poor history of performing well when he tries to throw a lot like the elites do. Then he points out that the blind side protection for Ryan is BAD, that Ryan, to this point, has not shown a great pocket awareness in obvious passing situaitons, etc. In general, he's making a case that Ryan is a much better QB in a balanced game and that when they get to throwing a lot, bad things happen.The authors summing quote: "Ryan would do well to match last year’s numbers. A drop-off is far more likely than a jump to the elite level. And unless Ryan can make that improbable jump, there’s not an ice cream cone’s chance in hell that Jones and White are both going to finish as top-10 receivers."
A lot has changed since last year. Mike Mularkey is gone, for starters. He would sprinkle some no-huddle at the end of each half, and Matt Ryan really thrived in those situations. Most people wondered why they didn't go no-huddle more often. Now Mularkey's gone, and Dirk Koetter is apparently running a ton of no-huddle. I think that article is asinine.

 
Fair points. I tend to think that Rivers throwing for 4700 with crappy WRs in 2010 was an outlier, and that he's not likely to do it again, but he at least had a few more options then. For one, Gates was 2 years younger and on a Randy Moss TD record-pace through about 8 games. And Rivers had Sproles, and VJax for part of the season. Rivers is also now 30, whereas then he was 28, and clearly regressed a bit last year. I guess it's looking at two different sides of the same coin, where you're saying 2010 Rivers is what we should expect, and I'm thinking 2011 Rivers is more likely. In any case, Rivers was 28 that season, and Ryan will be 27 this season. I think the point about Ryan entering his prime still stands. And just because Rivers did it once with crappy WRs is not a reason for me to take him over Ryan (or pass on Ryan in favor of Rivers)... clearly I'm going to select the QB with the best weapons.Eli did have a great year last year with virtually the same weapons, minus Manningham and some TEs. But I suspect the Giants running game will improve this year compared to last, whereas I think the Falcons run game will be slightly worse overall, and more suited to check-downs with Quizz rather than 3 yard runs up the middle with Turner.As for Romo, his O-line is even worse than last year. And he lost a valuable 3WR in Robinson. And Witten is hurt. And Murray now looks like a beast to start the season. Again, you have to look pretty hard for reasons NOT to like Ryan of the mid-range QB options. I can't think of a single factor, from WRs and TEs, to the expected strength of schedule, to preseason play, to a declining and aging RB in Turner, to a clearly stated offensive philosophy that favors shotgun-spread, no huddle formation, to the dome, to the opposing defenses in the NFC South (Saints, Bucs, arguably Panthers). The ONLY legit negative with Ryan is that he hasn't had a season better than last year, so some argue "you have to be expecting a career year out of him." Well guess what, players generally have career years in their athletic prime when they are surrounded by weapons and in a favorable system.
which is why i'm taking him at 3.4 in my 12 team league. won't see him againi at 4.9 and he's the last top 5 QB.
 
I read a really good article last night that builds a well-thought out case as to why Ryan is probably going to be severely overdrafted. So, I'm thinking I still don't take him until after Eli is off the board, wherever that may be, no questions asked.
Gosh, if only there was a way to link to an article... :mellow: ;)
A case for rethinking Matt Ryan as an "elite" QB
Unless I misunderstood, the article basically offered 2 reasons not to be high on Ryan. First was that he doesn't do well in the playoffs. After a paragraph discussing his playoff failings, the author then acknowledges that playoffs have nothing to do with the fantasy season. His second (and seemingly only other) point was that Ryan does not do well in head to head competition against other elite QBs. But given the fact that the FBG Stremgth of Schedule chart shows Ryan with THE EASIEST SCHEDULE OF ALL TEAMS, I'm not certain that the second "point" matters very much either.
What he's saying is that (summarizing) given that the vast majority of people have White and Julio predicted to perform so well, that, mathmatically, in order to actually do that, Ryan would also have to perform as one of the truly "elites". But then he goes on to point out that Ryan has a very poor history of performing well when he tries to throw a lot like the elites do. Then he points out that the blind side protection for Ryan is BAD, that Ryan, to this point, has not shown a great pocket awareness in obvious passing situaitons, etc. In general, he's making a case that Ryan is a much better QB in a balanced game and that when they get to throwing a lot, bad things happen.The authors summing quote: "Ryan would do well to match last year’s numbers. A drop-off is far more likely than a jump to the elite level. And unless Ryan can make that improbable jump, there’s not an ice cream cone’s chance in hell that Jones and White are both going to finish as top-10 receivers."
A lot has changed since last year. Mike Mularkey is gone, for starters. He would sprinkle some no-huddle at the end of each half, and Matt Ryan really thrived in those situations. Most people wondered why they didn't go no-huddle more often. Now Mularkey's gone, and Dirk Koetter is apparently running a ton of no-huddle. I think that article is asinine.
Well, change doesn't always mean better just because you have a guy on your FF team. the article is just offered up as something to consider. Make of it what you will.

The author's opinion is at least as valid as yours but if you think its asinine, then WHY do you think that? Give us your thoughts and how you discredit the author's thoughts. Explain to us how you DO see both these guys finishing so high, despite the presence of Gonzo, and Ryan, as a result, ending up so high. Build your case.

 
Got Ryan last night at 4.02 as QB8, in a 12-team draft, about half were sophisticated fantasy players, half were not. 20 yards/point, 4 points per TD.

Rodgers - 1.02

Brady - 1.06

Brees - 1.09

Stafford - 1.12

Cam - 2.05

Eli - 2.12 :excited:

Vick - 3.08

Ryan - 4.02

ETA - Romo and Rivers in the 5th, Manning in the 6th.

 
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Missed Ryan last night. I had pick 38 and 43 in a 10 team redraft and had intended to get him.

However, MJD slipped to #38 and Marshall slipped to #43, so I passed on Ryan to get those guys.

He got taken at #56, the guy at 57 had a QB, so I missed him by one pick at 58. :wall:

I got Vick instead at 58. :hot: Hoping he stays somewhat healthy.

I got Julio at #18 so I was hoping to get Ryan but it didn't work out.

 
Was in a 10 team yahoo redraft draft last night, 25 yards/point but 6 points per all TDs, .5 per completion, and 2 point bonuses at 300, 350, and 400 yards. Had the #2 overall pick and had to go with Brees after Rodgers went #1. To my amazement, though, was able to land Ryan at pick 59 (bottom of the 6th)! Even more amazing was my ability to land both R Wilson and Locker in the 16th and 17th rounds (too bad this isn't a 2 QB league)!! I'm obviously hoping to trade Ryan off to another team, but with a league this small most teams are "happy" with their current QB1.

Wasn't at all planning on taking a backup QB that early, but I really had to at that point in the draft!

 
Was in a 10 team yahoo redraft draft last night, 25 yards/point but 6 points per all TDs, .5 per completion, and 2 point bonuses at 300, 350, and 400 yards. Had the #2 overall pick and had to go with Brees after Rodgers went #1. To my amazement, though, was able to land Ryan at pick 59 (bottom of the 6th)! Even more amazing was my ability to land both R Wilson and Locker in the 16th and 17th rounds (too bad this isn't a 2 QB league)!! I'm obviously hoping to trade Ryan off to another team, but with a league this small most teams are "happy" with their current QB1.Wasn't at all planning on taking a backup QB that early, but I really had to at that point in the draft!
in a 10 team league you took another QB in Round 6 after having Brees?? you're going to really regret that pick if you can't trade one of those QB's..
 
Missed Ryan last night. I had pick 38 and 43 in a 10 team redraft and had intended to get him.However, MJD slipped to #38 and Marshall slipped to #43, so I passed on Ryan to get those guys.He got taken at #56, the guy at 57 had a QB, so I missed him by one pick at 58. :wall: I got Vick instead at 58. :hot: Hoping he stays somewhat healthy. I got Julio at #18 so I was hoping to get Ryan but it didn't work out.
I'm guessing you'll survive it, if your 5th and 6th best players are going to be Brandon Marshall and Mike Vick.
 
In my 12-team redraft, 6pts per TD Ryan went at 2.10.

He was the SIXTH QB off the board after Rodgers (1.02), Brees (1.06), Brady (1.07), Stafford (2.02), Newton (2.03) and ELI MANNING (2.06) :confused:

I waited on QB and picked up Rivers at 7.12 and Locker at 12.01.

 
On Friday, he went 1.09 (!) in a 12-team, 4-point TD league (!!) before Stafford (!!!). I happily obliged to grab Stafford at 2.07. Madness.

 
Prior to my draft I came to the conclusion that from the 8th spot in rds 2 & 4 I had my choice of:

Ryan & Julio, or

Cam & Harvin.

I'm a buyer of the Falcons hype to a degree, but went with the latter choice and feel pretty good about it now.

 
I hate trying to predict the round a player will be drafted because every league is so variable when it comes to scoring and the tendencies of owners. I think it is much better to state where a particular player ranks relative to other players at the same position and let everyone decide what that means for their particular draft.Right now I have Ryan as the #10 ranked QB on my board but I can see the arguments to put him all the way up to #5. So I guess the answer is that I could see drafting him as the 5th QB off the board. In my league that makes him a mid 2nd round pick but, of course, YMMV.
He went as the 8th QB off the board (pick 2.02) in my 12 team super flex league.
 
3 separate 10 team leagues, and I ended up with Ryan in all 3. However, he was not a hot commodity in any of them. Got him at 8.4 in my $$ league (QB11) as a back up to Newton. Got him at 8.1 (QB10)in my work league as my first QB. In my $200 auction league he went for $8 (basically QB11). I thought he was undervalued in each and I believe he was worth it. Passing TD's are worth 4 pts in each one.

If he has a good year, I am in good shape. If not, I have other good QB's on these rosters.

 
I had the first overall which I took Foster and got Ryan at 2.10 or 3.1 however you look at it. I think he was good at the position since brees brady rodgers and stafford were all keepers. Cam went off the board at 1.3

 
I believe we can go ahead and coin the phrase Staffor-syndrome in fantasy football now. That seems to be what we are seeing in regards to Ryan. Everyone is looking back at the eruption Stafford had last year and are parlaying what they see as similarities to Ryan and thus, his meteoric rise in ADP.

The similarities most see are, and I'll rank these in order of perception;

1. Weapons. Really this syndrome begins with the ridiculous hype for J. Jones. I believe people view Jones raw ability as on par with Calvin, it's not, and thus feel he can have a similar impact to Ryan as Calvin did to Stafford. On top of that you have R. White, Gonzo and a good pair of RBs. People look at this wealth of weapons at Ryan's disposal and think, how can he not have a monster season?

2. Confidence in Ryan's ability. Many have felt Ryan was a fringe elite QB for years IMO. He had a great rookie year and has really never had a bad year to derail the confidence he built from then. Many have felt his fantasy success has been held back by the Atl commitment to running the ball. Most feel that will change this season and Atl will open up the play book to far more passing. Ryan's opportunity is perceived to be rising, a lot.

3. Growth in passing for the NFL. We are coming off a historical season in ten NFL from a passing stand point. Given Ryan's weapons and opportunity, surely he too will take advantage of this new passing epidemic going on in the NFL.

4. Division and dome. There is a feeling that Atl needs to keep up with the Jones'. In this case the Jones' are the Saints and Panthers. In order to win in the NFC South and in the NFC in general I think people feel you have to score, a lot. Seeing that Atl has the weapons to do so, why shouldn't they?

Personally I'm not really on board with all of this for various reasons. It is however the sense I've gotten ore the past few weeks of doing drafts. People think Ryan is the next Stafford. Just look at his weapons! They play in a dome! They have to keep up! Ryan could be elite! The main problems I have with are; Ryan is not as good as Stafford, the Atl running game is much better and the D is much better. There simply will not be a need for Ryan to pass the ball as much as Stafford did last year and thus he will not come close to approaching that kind of season. On top of that what made Stafford the value he was was that you could draft him in round 6, not round 2.

I would draft Ryan no earlier than round 6.

I hope my iPad didn't completely butcher this post....
:goodposting: I wanted to add some FO comparison to Stafford v. Ryan.

Stafford played 3 games in 2010 with a DVOA of 3%. He jumped to 15% DVOA in 2011, and had a crazy 663 attempts. Ryan has increased his DVOA gradually, from 12% in 2009, to 18% the last two years. Arguably Ryan has been as good as Stafford on a per play basis. Although the DVOA takes into account more favorable real-life stats (minimizing INTs and fumbles) as compared to straight fantasy (greater yards and TDs).

Over the last two years, Ryan has: 57 total TDs, 21 INTs, on 1137 attempts... 19.9 passes per TD, 54 passes per INT. Yards per attempt at 6.4 in 2009 and 7.5 in 2010.

Last season, Stafford had 41 TDs, 15 INTs, on 663 attempts. ... 16 passes per TD, 44 passes per INT. Yards per attempt at 7.6 in 2010.

Ryan throws fewer TDs, fewer INTs, and roughly as many yards per pass as Stafford. The most significant difference is the number of passes per year. It's very possible that the Falcons still pass more than the last few seasons (590ish attempts) , but that Stafford still has more (600+ attempts). With Julio, Ryan has thrown for about as much yardage per pass.

This seems most likely:

Stafford - 620 attempts, 4,700 yards, 38-39 TDs

Ryan - 590 attempts, 4,400, 30-32 TDs.
Too early to bump this thread for the requisite crow eating?

Ryan currently on pace for 4,200 yards and 43 TDs. I thought his yardage would be a little higher and TDs a little lower, but that can probably be attributed to a few easy wins so far. He's currently QB1, but would probably be around QB2-5 if there was better QB play among the top guys as there was last year. Also only 3 games played, so his year end stats are still shrouded in fog, but as this thread was dedicated to considering his draft stock, I'd say he's performed to meet the expectations inherent in drafting him in the 3rd, 4th, early 2nd, whatever.

Bottom line is if you got Ryan at QB, you got a steal. And it's basically happening in the way that looked so obvious in August - little run game with Turner, Julio is an uncoverable beast, White excels with single coverage, and Gonzo is free to foam the middle.

AND, since Stafford's stats last year were a clear jump from his previous partial seasons, whereas Ryan has been steadily improving over the last 3 years, it now seems obvious to me in retrospect that Ryan was in fact the safer pick than Stafford. Lower ADP, more consistent level of production (albeit lower production than Stafford last year). But, 20/20 hindsight...

My favorite anti-Ryan argument from some garbage journalist: Ryan has never been good in the playoffs, and although fantasy football is regular season not playoffs, Ryan has always only had 1 good WR, so he probably won't have two good WRs, therefore Ryan won't be elite.

 
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No crow from me. I said Ryan was going too high and to wait for Eli. That's working out even better.
If by "even better" you mean "slightly worse," then yes. In my main league Eli currently has 61 points through 3 games, Ryan has 81. In fairness, Eli does seem to be a top 5 pick and a good value if drafted as QB8+. But Ryan looks like the QB1. Both were apparently better values and might score more points outright than the consensus top 5 QBs.
 
No crow from me. I said Ryan was going too high and to wait for Eli. That's working out even better.
Eli has been a liability for two out of his three games, while Ryan has had three good/great games. Ryan scored more points in week 1 than Eli did in week 2.As of today, Matt Ryan has provided significantly more value than Eli (and every other QB aside from RG3). We'll see how it goes for the rest of the season.
 
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