Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch (1 Viewer)

[Jojo the circus boy]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

 

[Toad_1234]

Strangely, Zimmerman called 911 46 times before this incident and nothing ever happened. We'll never know what happened, but I know what it looks like.

The evidence and testimony will be the final determination in this case. Forensics will help nail down portions of the truth.

 

[pantherclub]

Strangely, Zimmerman called 911 46 times before this incident and nothing ever happened. We'll never know what happened, but I know what it looks like.

The evidence and testimony will be the final determination in this case. Forensics will help nail down portions of the truth.

That speaks volumes

 

[greenroom]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Who's neighborhood?

I corrected you when you said Z confronted M when he started towards him, I was pointing out you were wrong since Z was on the phone with the non-emergency number the whole time from when he is in his vehicle to when he gets out of his vehicle to the point where he is at the "T" and tells dispatch, "he's gone." So it would be IMPOSSIBLE for Z to confront M when he started towards him. When he confirmed with NEN that he understood their request to stop following and says "ok" to the point where he hangs up the phone he is still by the "T" in the pathway according to his story - 1m 33s elapses over this period of him hanging up. All of the evidence is also in the same vicinity, his keys are within 6 feet of the "T" where Z says M confronted him. You don't have to believe Z that M confronted him, but you have to at least acknowledge the confrontation happened at the "T". Given that the confrontation happened at the "T" the only way this happens is if M was waiting 1 minute and 33 seconds for Z to get off of the phone. This is not "walking around your neighborhood", this is more like standing in 1 spot out of view waiting for someone to get off of the phone to speak with them/give them a piece of your mind/punch them in the face - choose which ever phrase you want. You can dispute the other variables all you want, but you cannot easily dispute the location the altercation took place, nor can you dispute the timeline.

 

[timschochet]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Really glad you posted this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.

The fact that this kid Martin either walked slowly, or lingered, or even stayed in one place for awhile is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Not only that, it has a racist smell to it: why is a black kid who looks like a gangbanger lingering around a white neighborhood? Obviously because he wants to rob it! That was surely Zimmerman's thinking, and it's really shameful that so many of you here repeat it as somehow evidence that Martin was at fault and deserved to be killed.

So much of this discussion is really ugly... and sad to say, it's mostly on the pro-Zimmerman side.

 

[Toad_1234]

Strangely, Zimmerman called 911 46 times before this incident and nothing ever happened. We'll never know what happened, but I know what it looks like.

The evidence and testimony will be the final determination in this case. Forensics will help nail down portions of the truth.

That speaks volumes

Toad...you set yourself up for that one.

Yes... it speaks volumes that Zimmerman looks like he is innocent? Are you people nuts? If he called 911 46 times without incident and the 47th time there is an altercation, and he says he was attacked and is bleeding with a broken nose, I think most people would believe it. The fact remains he called and called and nothing like this happened before, even if George does have anger issues.

I realize you are trying to race bait here. Now if George had called 911 46 times on all black people, then that would be a different discussion entirely. I haven't heard those calls(although I'd like to).

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Really glad you posted this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.

The fact that this kid Martin either walked slowly, or lingered, or even stayed in one place for awhile is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Not only that, it has a racist smell to it: why is a black kid who looks like a gangbanger lingering around a white neighborhood? Obviously because he wants to rob it! That was surely Zimmerman's thinking, and it's really shameful that so many of you here repeat it as somehow evidence that Martin was at fault and deserved to be killed.

So much of this discussion is really ugly... and sad to say, it's mostly on the pro-Zimmerman side.

*** HYPERBOLE ALERT ***

Nobody is saying that. Nobody is saying M deserved to be killed for lingering. What people are saying is Z was justified in calling in suspicious activity for someone walking slowing between houses in 61 degree weather in the rain, he reported it because it was out of the ordinary behavior that he does not see his neighbors do. People are also saying Z was justified in using lethal force for being physically assaulted by M, with M putting Z into a position with no clear escape route.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Really glad you posted this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.The fact that this kid Martin either walked slowly, or lingered, or even stayed in one place for awhile is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Not only that, it has a racist smell to it: why is a black kid who looks like a gangbanger lingering around a white neighborhood? Obviously because he wants to rob it! That was surely Zimmerman's thinking, and it's really shameful that so many of you here repeat it as somehow evidence that Martin was at fault and deserved to be killed.

So much of this discussion is really ugly... and sad to say, it's mostly on the pro-Zimmerman side.

Why are you injecting race into this? What if he was Hispanic like GZ, would you think the same thing?Sad indeed.

 

[kentric]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Really glad you posted this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.

The fact that this kid Martin either walked slowly, or lingered, or even stayed in one place for awhile is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Not only that, it has a racist smell to it: why is a black kid who looks like a gangbanger lingering around a white neighborhood? Obviously because he wants to rob it! That was surely Zimmerman's thinking, and it's really shameful that so many of you here repeat it as somehow evidence that Martin was at fault and deserved to be killed.

So much of this discussion is really ugly... and sad to say, it's mostly on the pro-Zimmerman side.

How can you infer that anyone is suggesting that Martin was hanging around to rob someone? Martin had supposedly just told his gf that he was being followed and she told him to run. The reason why the 1:33 is relevant is that any normal person who was being followed and is potentially concerned would move to a location of safety - i.e., his father's apartment.

The reason he didn't was possibly:

1. he was pissed off that some guy would be following him and wanted to confront Z;

2. he got over his fear of 1 minute prior and decided to chill with his gf;

3. he became confused at to where his father's pad was.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Really glad you posted this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.

The fact that this kid Martin either walked slowly, or lingered, or even stayed in one place for awhile is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Not only that, it has a racist smell to it: why is a black kid who looks like a gangbanger lingering around a white neighborhood? Obviously because he wants to rob it! That was surely Zimmerman's thinking, and it's really shameful that so many of you here repeat it as somehow evidence that Martin was at fault and deserved to be killed.

So much of this discussion is really ugly... and sad to say, it's mostly on the pro-Zimmerman side.

How can you infer that anyone is suggesting that Martin was hanging around to rob someone? Martin had supposedly just told his gf that he was being followed and she told him to run. The reason why the 1:33 is relevant is that any normal person who was being followed and is potentially concerned would move to a location of safety - i.e., his father's apartment.

The reason he didn't was possibly:

1. he was pissed off that some guy would be following him and wanted to confront Z;

2. he got over his fear of 1 minute prior and decided to chill with his gf;

3. he became confused at to where his father's pad was.

4.He didnt want Zimmy to follow him to his dads GF`s APT

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Strangely, Zimmerman called 911 46 times before this incident and nothing ever happened. We'll never know what happened, but I know what it looks like.

The evidence and testimony will be the final determination in this case. Forensics will help nail down portions of the truth.

That speaks volumes

Toad...you set yourself up for that one.

Yes... it speaks volumes that Zimmerman looks like he is innocent? Are you people nuts? If he called 911 46 times without incident and the 47th time there is an altercation, and he says he was attacked and is bleeding with a broken nose, I think most people would believe it. The fact remains he called and called and nothing like this happened before, even if George does have anger issues.

I realize you are trying to race bait here. Now if George had called 911 46 times on all black people, then that would be a different discussion entirely. I haven't heard those calls(although I'd like to).

Okay, then.

In August 2011, he called to report a black male in a tank top and shorts acting suspicious near the development's back entrance. "[Complainant] believes [subject] is involved in recent S-21s"—break-ins—"in the neighborhood," the call log states. The suspect, Zimmerman told the dispatcher, fit a recent description given out by law enforcement officers.
Three days later, he called to report two black teens in the same area, for the same reason. "[Juveniles] are the subjs who have been [burglarizing] in this area," he told the dispatcher.
From DeLuca:
On April 22, 2011, Zimmerman called to report a black male about “7-9” years old, four feet tall, with a “skinny build” and short black hair. There is no indication in the police report of the reason for Zimmerman’s suspicion of the boy.
The document also details Zimmerman's obsessions with law and order and black males who were walking around his apartment complex throughout his numerous 911 calls.

Just last month, before Zimmerman's murder of the unarmed, 17-year-old teenager Trayvon Martin, he made a 911 call about a black man walking around his complex "suspiciously" on February 2nd in a leather jacket near one of his neighbor's housing units. Police responded to the call but failed to find the alleged suspect, and the unit was unharmed.

In late 2011, Zimmerman also made several phone calls telling a 911 dispatcher that he saw suspicious black males in the neighborhood who may be responsible for the recent break-ins in the apartment complex.

In the call logs, Zimmerman said, "Juveniles are the subjects who have been [burglarizing] in this area." In another call he said, "Complainant believes subject is involved in recent S-21s"—break-ins—"in the neighborhood," the call log states.

Zimmerman has also made numerous phone calls reporting children playing in his neighborhood, and about "suspicious" vehicles driving slowly through his neighborhood.

Many of his calls had to do with minute offenses such as the following: a male driving with no headlights; a yellow speedbike popping wheelies on I-4; an aggressive white-and-brown pitbull; an Orange County municipal pickup cutting people off on the road; and loud parties.

You can view the 48-page document here.

http://www.motherjones.com/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history

The reason there werent any confrontations is because those ''punks'' got away....but not treyvon...Zimmy was gonna get this one ...and he did.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Really glad you posted this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.The fact that this kid Martin either walked slowly, or lingered, or even stayed in one place for awhile is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Not only that, it has a racist smell to it: why is a black kid who looks like a gangbanger lingering around a white neighborhood? Obviously because he wants to rob it! That was surely Zimmerman's thinking, and it's really shameful that so many of you here repeat it as somehow evidence that Martin was at fault and deserved to be killed.

So much of this discussion is really ugly... and sad to say, it's mostly on the pro-Zimmerman side.

How can you infer that anyone is suggesting that Martin was hanging around to rob someone? Martin had supposedly just told his gf that he was being followed and she told him to run. The reason why the 1:33 is relevant is that any normal person who was being followed and is potentially concerned would move to a location of safety - i.e., his father's apartment. The reason he didn't was possibly:

1. he was pissed off that some guy would be following him and wanted to confront Z;

2. he got over his fear of 1 minute prior and decided to chill with his gf;

3. he became confused at to where his father's pad was.

4.He didnt want Zimmy to follow him to his dads GF`s APT

So your theory is he was playing hide and seek with Z while Z was on the phone, and when Z got off the phone he searched until he found M and violently confronted M?

Or do you acknowledge that M chose to approach Z (instead of lead him back to his dads GF's APT)?

 

[Christo]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Really glad you posted this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.

The fact that this kid Martin either walked slowly, or lingered, or even stayed in one place for awhile is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Not only that, it has a racist smell to it: why is a black kid who looks like a gangbanger lingering around a white neighborhood? Obviously because he wants to rob it! That was surely Zimmerman's thinking, and it's really shameful that so many of you here repeat it as somehow evidence that Martin was at fault and deserved to be killed.

So much of this discussion is really ugly... and sad to say, it's mostly on the pro-Zimmerman side.

Wasn't Trayvon watching a basketball game with another kid? Wasn't he just making a run for snacks at half time? Wasn't it raining? Of course he had a destination.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Really glad you posted this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.The fact that this kid Martin either walked slowly, or lingered, or even stayed in one place for awhile is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Not only that, it has a racist smell to it: why is a black kid who looks like a gangbanger lingering around a white neighborhood? Obviously because he wants to rob it! That was surely Zimmerman's thinking, and it's really shameful that so many of you here repeat it as somehow evidence that Martin was at fault and deserved to be killed.

So much of this discussion is really ugly... and sad to say, it's mostly on the pro-Zimmerman side.

How can you infer that anyone is suggesting that Martin was hanging around to rob someone? Martin had supposedly just told his gf that he was being followed and she told him to run. The reason why the 1:33 is relevant is that any normal person who was being followed and is potentially concerned would move to a location of safety - i.e., his father's apartment. The reason he didn't was possibly:

1. he was pissed off that some guy would be following him and wanted to confront Z;

2. he got over his fear of 1 minute prior and decided to chill with his gf;

3. he became confused at to where his father's pad was.

4.He didnt want Zimmy to follow him to his dads GF`s APT

So your theory is he was playing hide and seek with Z while Z was on the phone, and when Z got off the phone he searched until he found M and violently confronted M?

Or do you acknowledge that M chose to approach Z (instead of lead him back to his dads GF's APT)?

I have stated my theory many times. I believe Trey was hiding and waiting to see if some strange dude was really following him or not. I believe he then saw Zimmy walking around looking for him and as zimmy got close to where he was (probably behind one of those little walls between each apt unit) he then stepped out and asked what his problem was ....a witness heard talking that soon turned into arguing which then became a fight.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Really glad you posted this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.The fact that this kid Martin either walked slowly, or lingered, or even stayed in one place for awhile is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Not only that, it has a racist smell to it: why is a black kid who looks like a gangbanger lingering around a white neighborhood? Obviously because he wants to rob it! That was surely Zimmerman's thinking, and it's really shameful that so many of you here repeat it as somehow evidence that Martin was at fault and deserved to be killed.

So much of this discussion is really ugly... and sad to say, it's mostly on the pro-Zimmerman side.

How can you infer that anyone is suggesting that Martin was hanging around to rob someone? Martin had supposedly just told his gf that he was being followed and she told him to run. The reason why the 1:33 is relevant is that any normal person who was being followed and is potentially concerned would move to a location of safety - i.e., his father's apartment. The reason he didn't was possibly:

1. he was pissed off that some guy would be following him and wanted to confront Z;

2. he got over his fear of 1 minute prior and decided to chill with his gf;

3. he became confused at to where his father's pad was.

4.He didnt want Zimmy to follow him to his dads GF`s APT

So your theory is he was playing hide and seek with Z while Z was on the phone, and when Z got off the phone he searched until he found M and violently confronted M?Or do you acknowledge that M chose to approach Z (instead of lead him back to his dads GF's APT)?

I have stated my theory many times. I believe Trey was hiding and waiting to see if some strange dude was really following him or not. I believe he then saw Zimmy walking around looking for him and as zimmy got close to where he was (probably behind one of those little walls between each apt unit) he then stepped out and asked what his problem was ....a witness heard talking that soon turned into arguing which then became a fight.

M was the worst hider in the history of hiding given that the altercation occurred at the "T" in the path where Z's keys were found, AWAY from all of the good hiding spots. 1 minute and 33 seconds gives you plenty of time to hide further than 10 ####### yards from the person you are trying to hide from.

I assume DeeDee can backup this fairy tale since she was on the phone with him.

 

[Witz]

There is so much noise as it pertains to this case. Martins background, Zimmermans background, etc. Just noise.

Martin went to the store - not illegal

Martin buying Skittles and Tea - not illegal

Martin being in the development - not illegal

Martin walking where he was walking - not illegal

Zimmerman in the development - not illegal

Zimmerman carrying a gun - not illegal

Zimmerman calling the police about Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman watching Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman walking after Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman OR Martin engaging the other in conversation - not illegal

None of the things that lead up to the altercation were illegal.

What it boils down to is who committed an illegal act first - basically the altercation that resulted in Martin being killed and Zimmerman claiming self-defense.

If we are to believe the girlfriend who was on the call with Martin, she said the following (*note - this part of her story never changed - she gave this story both during her initial statement on March 20th and when questioned by the State Prosecutors on 04/02)

She then heard Martin say, "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?" She said that she heard the sound of pushing before the phone went dead.

She updated her story when meeting with the prosecutors to include the following:

Martin's friend recounted her last phone call with Martin and added that Martin had described the man as "crazy and creepy," watching him from a vehicle while the man was talking on the phone. Martin's friend told prosecutors that she heard words like "get off, get off," right before she lost contact with Martin.

Based on the information above, Martin spoke to Zimmerman first, followed Zimmerman speaking.

It boils down to who do you believe started the altercation. You either believe Martin got physical after that verbal exchange or you believe Zimmerman did. In my opinion, it seems more reasonable that Martin would have gotten physical with Zimmerman as opposed to the other way around. After calling the police on Martin, I can't believe that Zimmerman would start throwing punches at Martin whereas I could believe Martin, pissed that someone was bothering him, could be the aggressor.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

There is so much noise as it pertains to this case. Martins background, Zimmermans background, etc. Just noise.

Martin went to the store - not illegal

Martin buying Skittles and Tea - not illegal

Martin being in the development - not illegal

Martin walking where he was walking - not illegal

Zimmerman in the development - not illegal

Zimmerman carrying a gun - not illegal

Zimmerman calling the police about Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman watching Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman walking after Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman OR Martin engaging the other in conversation - not illegal

None of the things that lead up to the altercation were illegal.

What it boils down to is who committed an illegal act first - basically the altercation that resulted in Martin being killed and Zimmerman claiming self-defense.

If we are to believe the girlfriend who was on the call with Martin, she said the following (*note - this part of her story never changed - she gave this story both during her initial statement on March 20th and when questioned by the State Prosecutors on 04/02)

She then heard Martin say, "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?" She said that she heard the sound of pushing before the phone went dead.

She updated her story when meeting with the prosecutors to include the following:

Martin's friend recounted her last phone call with Martin and added that Martin had described the man as "crazy and creepy," watching him from a vehicle while the man was talking on the phone. Martin's friend told prosecutors that she heard words like "get off, get off," right before she lost contact with Martin.

Based on the information above, Martin spoke to Zimmerman first, followed Zimmerman speaking.

It boils down to who do you believe started the altercation. You either believe Martin got physical after that verbal exchange or you believe Zimmerman did. In my opinion, it seems more reasonable that Martin would have gotten physical with Zimmerman as opposed to the other way around. After calling the police on Martin, I can't believe that Zimmerman would start throwing punches at Martin whereas I could believe Martin, pissed that someone was bothering him, could be the aggressor.

I agree with everything up until this ..

It is possible that Treyvon pushed or punched Zimmerman first, but just as likely, Zimmerman grabbed Treyvon and tried to hold him till police arrived.

But even if Zimmerman did iniciate the contact, he doesn't lose theright to defend himself once it escalated into a situation where he believed his life or phisical well being was endangered..

 

[Toad_1234]

Strangely, Zimmerman called 911 46 times before this incident and nothing ever happened. We'll never know what happened, but I know what it looks like.

The evidence and testimony will be the final determination in this case. Forensics will help nail down portions of the truth.

That speaks volumes

Toad...you set yourself up for that one.

Yes... it speaks volumes that Zimmerman looks like he is innocent? Are you people nuts? If he called 911 46 times without incident and the 47th time there is an altercation, and he says he was attacked and is bleeding with a broken nose, I think most people would believe it. The fact remains he called and called and nothing like this happened before, even if George does have anger issues.

I realize you are trying to race bait here. Now if George had called 911 46 times on all black people, then that would be a different discussion entirely. I haven't heard those calls(although I'd like to).

Okay, then.

In August 2011, he called to report a black male in a tank top and shorts acting suspicious near the development's back entrance. "[Complainant] believes [subject] is involved in recent S-21s"—break-ins—"in the neighborhood," the call log states. The suspect, Zimmerman told the dispatcher, fit a recent description given out by law enforcement officers.
Three days later, he called to report two black teens in the same area, for the same reason. "[Juveniles] are the subjs who have been [burglarizing] in this area," he told the dispatcher.
From DeLuca:
On April 22, 2011, Zimmerman called to report a black male about “7-9” years old, four feet tall, with a “skinny build” and short black hair. There is no indication in the police report of the reason for Zimmerman’s suspicion of the boy.
The document also details Zimmerman's obsessions with law and order and black males who were walking around his apartment complex throughout his numerous 911 calls.

Just last month, before Zimmerman's murder of the unarmed, 17-year-old teenager Trayvon Martin, he made a 911 call about a black man walking around his complex "suspiciously" on February 2nd in a leather jacket near one of his neighbor's housing units. Police responded to the call but failed to find the alleged suspect, and the unit was unharmed.

In late 2011, Zimmerman also made several phone calls telling a 911 dispatcher that he saw suspicious black males in the neighborhood who may be responsible for the recent break-ins in the apartment complex.

In the call logs, Zimmerman said, "Juveniles are the subjects who have been [burglarizing] in this area." In another call he said, "Complainant believes subject is involved in recent S-21s"—break-ins—"in the neighborhood," the call log states.

Zimmerman has also made numerous phone calls reporting children playing in his neighborhood, and about "suspicious" vehicles driving slowly through his neighborhood.

Many of his calls had to do with minute offenses such as the following: a male driving with no headlights; a yellow speedbike popping wheelies on I-4; an aggressive white-and-brown pitbull; an Orange County municipal pickup cutting people off on the road; and loud parties.

You can view the 48-page document here.

http://www.motherjones.com/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history

The reason there werent any confrontations is because those ''punks'' got away....but not treyvon...Zimmy was gonna get this one ...and he did.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[pantherclub]

There is so much noise as it pertains to this case. Martins background, Zimmermans background, etc. Just noise.

Martin went to the store - not illegal

Martin buying Skittles and Tea - not illegal

Martin being in the development - not illegal

Martin walking where he was walking - not illegal

Zimmerman in the development - not illegal

Zimmerman carrying a gun - not illegal

Zimmerman calling the police about Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman watching Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman walking after Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman OR Martin engaging the other in conversation - not illegal

None of the things that lead up to the altercation were illegal.

What it boils down to is who committed an illegal act first - basically the altercation that resulted in Martin being killed and Zimmerman claiming self-defense.

If we are to believe the girlfriend who was on the call with Martin, she said the following (*note - this part of her story never changed - she gave this story both during her initial statement on March 20th and when questioned by the State Prosecutors on 04/02)

She then heard Martin say, "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?" She said that she heard the sound of pushing before the phone went dead.

She updated her story when meeting with the prosecutors to include the following:

Martin's friend recounted her last phone call with Martin and added that Martin had described the man as "crazy and creepy," watching him from a vehicle while the man was talking on the phone. Martin's friend told prosecutors that she heard words like "get off, get off," right before she lost contact with Martin.

Based on the information above, Martin spoke to Zimmerman first, followed Zimmerman speaking.

It boils down to who do you believe started the altercation. You either believe Martin got physical after that verbal exchange or you believe Zimmerman did. In my opinion, it seems more reasonable that Martin would have gotten physical with Zimmerman as opposed to the other way around. After calling the police on Martin, I can't believe that Zimmerman would start throwing punches at Martin whereas I could believe Martin, pissed that someone was bothering him, could be the aggressor.

I agree with everything up until this ..

It is possible that Treyvon pushed or punched Zimmerman first, but just as likely, Zimmerman grabbed Treyvon and tried to hold him till police arrived.

But even if Zimmerman did iniciate the contact, he doesn't lose theright to defend himself once it escalated into a situation where he believed his life or phisical well being was endangered..

I think you are wrong there. This was discussed many moons ago on this thread and iirc you cannot claim self defense if you instigated the confrontation.

I am sure there are semantics with that but that was the general gist of the point. I dont feel like going back through the thread though, feel free.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Confrontation / Fight: TM body and phone 30 or 40 feet away from T where GZ alleges he was attacked. GZ chased TM down the T. Witness heard confrontation moving in that direction. GZ advancing, chasing fuarking azzhole punk to prevent him from always getting away. TM retreating. No GZ blood found in vicinity of T. TM has only one tiny cut on his knuckle

Inconsistent with administering MMA beating. GZ has minor scrapes on head, inconsistent with beating head repeatedly against sidewalk. GZ sustained broken nose after he chased TM down and attempted to keep him from getting away. GZ started the fight

I agree that the State will try play up the distance as proof of a chase. 40 feet without context sounds like a long distance but if you say that the body was 13 yards or 15 steps from the T it suddenly does not look as bad. Even though there is a debris trail that leads down the path from the T to the location of the body, the defense will try to claim the fight started at or near the final location, giving the appearance of a least following by GZ.

This is a cut n paste from a pro zimmerman blogger...just thought it was interesting.

 

[cstu]

There is so much noise as it pertains to this case. Martins background, Zimmermans background, etc. Just noise.

Martin went to the store - not illegal

Martin buying Skittles and Tea - not illegal

Martin being in the development - not illegal

Martin walking where he was walking - not illegal

Zimmerman in the development - not illegal

Zimmerman carrying a gun - not illegal

Zimmerman calling the police about Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman watching Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman walking after Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman OR Martin engaging the other in conversation - not illegal

None of the things that lead up to the altercation were illegal.

What it boils down to is who committed an illegal act first - basically the altercation that resulted in Martin being killed and Zimmerman claiming self-defense.

If we are to believe the girlfriend who was on the call with Martin, she said the following (*note - this part of her story never changed - she gave this story both during her initial statement on March 20th and when questioned by the State Prosecutors on 04/02)

She then heard Martin say, "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?" She said that she heard the sound of pushing before the phone went dead.

She updated her story when meeting with the prosecutors to include the following:

Martin's friend recounted her last phone call with Martin and added that Martin had described the man as "crazy and creepy," watching him from a vehicle while the man was talking on the phone. Martin's friend told prosecutors that she heard words like "get off, get off," right before she lost contact with Martin.

Based on the information above, Martin spoke to Zimmerman first, followed Zimmerman speaking.

It boils down to who do you believe started the altercation. You either believe Martin got physical after that verbal exchange or you believe Zimmerman did. In my opinion, it seems more reasonable that Martin would have gotten physical with Zimmerman as opposed to the other way around. After calling the police on Martin, I can't believe that Zimmerman would start throwing punches at Martin whereas I could believe Martin, pissed that someone was bothering him, could be the aggressor.

I agree with everything up until this ..

It is possible that Treyvon pushed or punched Zimmerman first, but just as likely, Zimmerman grabbed Treyvon and tried to hold him till police arrived.

But even if Zimmerman did iniciate the contact, he doesn't lose theright to defend himself once it escalated into a situation where he believed his life or phisical well being was endangered..

I think you are wrong there. This was discussed many moons ago on this thread and iirc you cannot claim self defense if you instigated the confrontation.

I am sure there are semantics with that but that was the general gist of the point. I dont feel like going back through the thread though, feel free.

704.6 When defense not available.

The defense of justification is not available to the following:

1. One who is participating in a forcible felony, or riot, or a duel.

2. One who initially provokes the use of force against oneself, with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict injury on the assailant.

3. One who initially provokes the use of force against oneself by one's unlawful acts, unless:

a. Such force is grossly disproportionate to the provocation, and is so great that the person reasonably believes that the person is in imminent danger of death or serious injury or

b. The person withdraws from physical contact with the other and indicates clearly to the other that the person desires to terminate the conflict but the other continues or resumes the use of force.

[C79, 81, §704.6]

An example would be if you shouted a profanity at another driver and they got out of the car and attempted to kill you. You would be within your rights to defend yourself even though you instigated the confrontation.

For Zimmerman the prosecution either needs to prove he had the ability to escape without using deadly force or that his initial contact was enough for Trayvon to believe his life was in danger. The latter will be much more difficult to prove.

 

[greenroom]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Really glad you posted this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.

The fact that this kid Martin either walked slowly, or lingered, or even stayed in one place for awhile is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Not only that, it has a racist smell to it: why is a black kid who looks like a gangbanger lingering around a white neighborhood? Obviously because he wants to rob it! That was surely Zimmerman's thinking, and it's really shameful that so many of you here repeat it as somehow evidence that Martin was at fault and deserved to be killed.

So much of this discussion is really ugly... and sad to say, it's mostly on the pro-Zimmerman side.

*** HYPERBOLE ALERT ***

Nobody is saying that. Nobody is saying M deserved to be killed for lingering. What people are saying is Z was justified in calling in suspicious activity for someone walking slowing between houses in 61 degree weather in the rain, he reported it because it was out of the ordinary behavior that he does not see his neighbors do. People are also saying Z was justified in using lethal force for being physically assaulted by M, with M putting Z into a position with no clear escape route.

And the same could be said for M to circle back to see why Z is getting in and out of his truck in his fathers neighborhood on a rainy night. And M was threatened by Z out of no where to where he had to defend himself from Z. Z then started to lose the fight and then pulled a gun.

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Define threatened. Did Z give him a disapproving look? Did Z brandish his gun? There wasn't so much as a scratch on his hands. Did the fact that he ignored him for over a minute and a half "threaten" him while he spoke with dispatch?

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Define threatened. Did Z give him a disapproving look? Did Z brandish his gun? There wasn't so much as a scratch on his hands. Did the fact that he ignored him for over a minute and a half "threaten" him while he spoke with dispatch?

you understand the difference of assault and battery right? Assault is a threat and battery is a beating. Maybe zimmy did the assaulting and trey in turn did the battery.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

There is so much noise as it pertains to this case. Martins background, Zimmermans background, etc. Just noise.

Martin went to the store - not illegal

Martin buying Skittles and Tea - not illegal

Martin being in the development - not illegal

Martin walking where he was walking - not illegal

Zimmerman in the development - not illegal

Zimmerman carrying a gun - not illegal

Zimmerman calling the police about Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman watching Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman walking after Martin - not illegal

Zimmerman OR Martin engaging the other in conversation - not illegal

None of the things that lead up to the altercation were illegal.

What it boils down to is who committed an illegal act first - basically the altercation that resulted in Martin being killed and Zimmerman claiming self-defense.

If we are to believe the girlfriend who was on the call with Martin, she said the following (*note - this part of her story never changed - she gave this story both during her initial statement on March 20th and when questioned by the State Prosecutors on 04/02)

She then heard Martin say, "What are you following me for?" followed by a man's voice responding, "What are you doing around here?" She said that she heard the sound of pushing before the phone went dead.

She updated her story when meeting with the prosecutors to include the following:

Martin's friend recounted her last phone call with Martin and added that Martin had described the man as "crazy and creepy," watching him from a vehicle while the man was talking on the phone. Martin's friend told prosecutors that she heard words like "get off, get off," right before she lost contact with Martin.

Based on the information above, Martin spoke to Zimmerman first, followed Zimmerman speaking.

It boils down to who do you believe started the altercation. You either believe Martin got physical after that verbal exchange or you believe Zimmerman did. In my opinion, it seems more reasonable that Martin would have gotten physical with Zimmerman as opposed to the other way around. After calling the police on Martin, I can't believe that Zimmerman would start throwing punches at Martin whereas I could believe Martin, pissed that someone was bothering him, could be the aggressor.

I agree with everything up until this ..

It is possible that Treyvon pushed or punched Zimmerman first, but just as likely, Zimmerman grabbed Treyvon and tried to hold him till police arrived.

But even if Zimmerman did iniciate the contact, he doesn't lose theright to defend himself once it escalated into a situation where he believed his life or phisical well being was endangered..

I think you are wrong there. This was discussed many moons ago on this thread and iirc you cannot claim self defense if you instigated the confrontation.

I am sure there are semantics with that but that was the general gist of the point. I dont feel like going back through the thread though, feel free.

No, it's true.. You can be put in a situation where legally you have the right to use lethal force even if you "instigated the confrontation" (as you put it)..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Zimmerman was in a life threatening position the minute he escalated the confrontation while carrying a loaded firearm.

So he has a strong point. Self induced "life threatening" is still life threatening.

Thats why you see so many of the unintended outcomes in Florida. And evidently its more life threatening if you shot a black man (as per the stats).

Escalated the confrontation? Are you referring to when Zimmerman left his vehicle? Other than construing that his leaving the vehicle and following after Martin, there's no evidence that he escalated anything.

There is also no evidence saying that Martin was the one who escalated it either. But someone did and the first person who did start it without a doubt was Zimmerman when he started towards Martin. After that we will probably never know the real truth of what happened that night!

You mean when he started towards him while on the phone with NEN? When M had 1m 33s to walk to his destination, a distance any normal person could walk in half the amount of time? Is that when you are suggesting Z confronted M while on the phone? Or are you saying after the 1m 33s, when Z was walking back to his truck when he happened to walk into M and then he confronted him?

You keep talking about this 1 min 33 seconds to his destination. What destination? So he lingered and took his time is that against the law or are you saying that is why he should be killed? Maybe Martin was a concerned citizen about a guy acting suspicious and was going to check Z out to see what was going on? We will never know what went on during that 1m 33 sec.. and to be honest it is pointless since just walking around your neighborhood is not illegal.

Really glad you posted this, because it's something I've been thinking about for a while.

The fact that this kid Martin either walked slowly, or lingered, or even stayed in one place for awhile is COMPLETELY irrelevant. Not only that, it has a racist smell to it: why is a black kid who looks like a gangbanger lingering around a white neighborhood? Obviously because he wants to rob it! That was surely Zimmerman's thinking, and it's really shameful that so many of you here repeat it as somehow evidence that Martin was at fault and deserved to be killed.

So much of this discussion is really ugly... and sad to say, it's mostly on the pro-Zimmerman side.

*** HYPERBOLE ALERT ***

Nobody is saying that. Nobody is saying M deserved to be killed for lingering. What people are saying is Z was justified in calling in suspicious activity for someone walking slowing between houses in 61 degree weather in the rain, he reported it because it was out of the ordinary behavior that he does not see his neighbors do. People are also saying Z was justified in using lethal force for being physically assaulted by M, with M putting Z into a position with no clear escape route.

And the same could be said for M to circle back to see why Z is getting in and out of his truck in his fathers neighborhood on a rainy night. And M was threatened by Z out of no where to where he had to defend himself from Z. Z then started to lose the fight and then pulled a gun.

Maybe you just drink too much..

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

Define threatened. Did Z give him a disapproving look? Did Z brandish his gun? There wasn't so much as a scratch on his hands. Did the fact that he ignored him for over a minute and a half "threaten" him while he spoke with dispatch?

you understand the difference of assault and battery right? Assault is a threat and battery is a beating. Maybe zimmy did the assaulting and trey in turn did the battery.

Another fairy tale?An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Define threatened. Did Z give him a disapproving look? Did Z brandish his gun? There wasn't so much as a scratch on his hands. Did the fact that he ignored him for over a minute and a half "threaten" him while he spoke with dispatch?

you understand the difference of assault and battery right? Assault is a threat and battery is a beating. Maybe zimmy did the assaulting and trey in turn did the battery.

Another fairy tale?An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm

who had the gun again?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Define threatened. Did Z give him a disapproving look? Did Z brandish his gun? There wasn't so much as a scratch on his hands. Did the fact that he ignored him for over a minute and a half "threaten" him while he spoke with dispatch?

you understand the difference of assault and battery right? Assault is a threat and battery is a beating. Maybe zimmy did the assaulting and trey in turn did the battery.

Another fairy tale?An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm

who had the gun again?

Ok, now anyone who carries a gun is assulting everyone around them.. Brilliant logic if you're typing from a padded room..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Define threatened. Did Z give him a disapproving look? Did Z brandish his gun? There wasn't so much as a scratch on his hands. Did the fact that he ignored him for over a minute and a half "threaten" him while he spoke with dispatch?

you understand the difference of assault and battery right? Assault is a threat and battery is a beating. Maybe zimmy did the assaulting and trey in turn did the battery.

Another fairy tale?An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm

who had the gun again?

Ok, now anyone who carries a gun is assulting everyone around them.. Brilliant logic if you're typing from a padded room..

No...just people who shoot unarmed people while playing cops and robbers

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

...and on that note u have no ####### clue what assault means

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Define threatened. Did Z give him a disapproving look? Did Z brandish his gun? There wasn't so much as a scratch on his hands. Did the fact that he ignored him for over a minute and a half "threaten" him while he spoke with dispatch?

you understand the difference of assault and battery right? Assault is a threat and battery is a beating. Maybe zimmy did the assaulting and trey in turn did the battery.

Another fairy tale?An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm

who had the gun again?

Ok, now anyone who carries a gun is assulting everyone around them.. Brilliant logic if you're typing from a padded room..

No...just people who shoot unarmed people while playing cops and robbers

You'd have a point if there were any evidence that supported your claims.. Most of your posts are emotion driven supposition..

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Define threatened. Did Z give him a disapproving look? Did Z brandish his gun? There wasn't so much as a scratch on his hands. Did the fact that he ignored him for over a minute and a half "threaten" him while he spoke with dispatch?

you understand the difference of assault and battery right? Assault is a threat and battery is a beating. Maybe zimmy did the assaulting and trey in turn did the battery.

Another fairy tale?An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm

who had the gun again?

Ok, now anyone who carries a gun is assulting everyone around them.. Brilliant logic if you're typing from a padded room..

No...just people who shoot unarmed people while playing cops and robbers

You'd have a point if there were any evidence that supported your claims.. Most of your posts are emotion driven supposition..

Ya...thats a rarity in this thread

 

[timschochet]

40 jurors left. 29 are white, 6 black, 3 Hispanic, 2 mixed race. 24 are women, 16 are men. Most are middle-aged or older. Let's try and figure out what the prosecution and defense are thinking.

If I'm the prosecution, I want every black I can get, and then the mixed race. The Hispanics make me nervous. I want as many women as I can. (Women tend to be more uncomfortable than men when it comes to guns.) I want as few white middle-aged men as possible. They're the ones most likely to sympathize with George Zimmerman.

If I'm the defense, I want no blacks on the jury. A single black may result in a hung jury, and I'm looking for an outright acquittal. Other than that, I want less women and more men. I MIGHT want Hispanics, but this depends largely on how they appear. Are they more conservative looking or less so? Are they younger or older? Are they Cuban? (Cubans tend to be more conservative.) Are they lighter skinned like Zimmerman, or darker skinned?

I know that a lot of what I've just written isn't politically correct, but I think it's probably accurate. Anyone disagree?

 

[pittstownkiller]

40 jurors left. 29 are white, 6 black, 3 Hispanic, 2 mixed race. 24 are women, 16 are men. Most are middle-aged or older. Let's try and figure out what the prosecution and defense are thinking.

If I'm the prosecution, I want every black I can get, and then the mixed race. The Hispanics make me nervous. I want as many women as I can. (Women tend to be more uncomfortable than men when it comes to guns.) I want as few white middle-aged men as possible. They're the ones most likely to sympathize with George Zimmerman.

If I'm the defense, I want no blacks on the jury. A single black may result in a hung jury, and I'm looking for an outright acquittal. Other than that, I want less women and more men. I MIGHT want Hispanics, but this depends largely on how they appear. Are they more conservative looking or less so? Are they younger or older? Are they Cuban? (Cubans tend to be more conservative.) Are they lighter skinned like Zimmerman, or darker skinned?

I know that a lot of what I've just written isn't politically correct, but I think it's probably accurate. Anyone disagree?

I would imagine their socio-economic position and education, would be more important than race.

 

[timschochet]

40 jurors left. 29 are white, 6 black, 3 Hispanic, 2 mixed race. 24 are women, 16 are men. Most are middle-aged or older. Let's try and figure out what the prosecution and defense are thinking.

If I'm the prosecution, I want every black I can get, and then the mixed race. The Hispanics make me nervous. I want as many women as I can. (Women tend to be more uncomfortable than men when it comes to guns.) I want as few white middle-aged men as possible. They're the ones most likely to sympathize with George Zimmerman.

If I'm the defense, I want no blacks on the jury. A single black may result in a hung jury, and I'm looking for an outright acquittal. Other than that, I want less women and more men. I MIGHT want Hispanics, but this depends largely on how they appear. Are they more conservative looking or less so? Are they younger or older? Are they Cuban? (Cubans tend to be more conservative.) Are they lighter skinned like Zimmerman, or darker skinned?

I know that a lot of what I've just written isn't politically correct, but I think it's probably accurate. Anyone disagree?

I would imagine their socio-economic position and education, would be more important than race.

It should be, but I have a feeling it won't be, especially with regard to the potential black jurors.

 

[pittstownkiller]

40 jurors left. 29 are white, 6 black, 3 Hispanic, 2 mixed race. 24 are women, 16 are men. Most are middle-aged or older. Let's try and figure out what the prosecution and defense are thinking.

If I'm the prosecution, I want every black I can get, and then the mixed race. The Hispanics make me nervous. I want as many women as I can. (Women tend to be more uncomfortable than men when it comes to guns.) I want as few white middle-aged men as possible. They're the ones most likely to sympathize with George Zimmerman.

If I'm the defense, I want no blacks on the jury. A single black may result in a hung jury, and I'm looking for an outright acquittal. Other than that, I want less women and more men. I MIGHT want Hispanics, but this depends largely on how they appear. Are they more conservative looking or less so? Are they younger or older? Are they Cuban? (Cubans tend to be more conservative.) Are they lighter skinned like Zimmerman, or darker skinned?

I know that a lot of what I've just written isn't politically correct, but I think it's probably accurate. Anyone disagree?

I would imagine their socio-economic position and education, would be more important than race.

It should be, but I have a feeling it won't be, especially with regard to the potential black jurors.

You have a bad habit of projecting your bias to others. If I was a Zimmerman's lawyer I would be looking for someone intellectual enough to realize they can't play **** Tracy, and introduce their own investigations, while following the Judge's explicit orders on the law as it pertains to self-defense.

 

[timschochet]

40 jurors left. 29 are white, 6 black, 3 Hispanic, 2 mixed race. 24 are women, 16 are men. Most are middle-aged or older. Let's try and figure out what the prosecution and defense are thinking.

If I'm the prosecution, I want every black I can get, and then the mixed race. The Hispanics make me nervous. I want as many women as I can. (Women tend to be more uncomfortable than men when it comes to guns.) I want as few white middle-aged men as possible. They're the ones most likely to sympathize with George Zimmerman.

If I'm the defense, I want no blacks on the jury. A single black may result in a hung jury, and I'm looking for an outright acquittal. Other than that, I want less women and more men. I MIGHT want Hispanics, but this depends largely on how they appear. Are they more conservative looking or less so? Are they younger or older? Are they Cuban? (Cubans tend to be more conservative.) Are they lighter skinned like Zimmerman, or darker skinned?

I know that a lot of what I've just written isn't politically correct, but I think it's probably accurate. Anyone disagree?

I would imagine their socio-economic position and education, would be more important than race.

It should be, but I have a feeling it won't be, especially with regard to the potential black jurors.

You have a bad habit of projecting your bias to others. If I was a Zimmerman's lawyer I would be looking for someone intellectual enough to realize they can't play **** Tracy, and introduce their own investigations, while following the Judge's explicit orders on the law as it pertains to self-defense.

OK.

 

[Gawain]

40 jurors left. 29 are white, 6 black, 3 Hispanic, 2 mixed race. 24 are women, 16 are men. Most are middle-aged or older. Let's try and figure out what the prosecution and defense are thinking.

If I'm the prosecution, I want every black I can get, and then the mixed race. The Hispanics make me nervous. I want as many women as I can. (Women tend to be more uncomfortable than men when it comes to guns.) I want as few white middle-aged men as possible. They're the ones most likely to sympathize with George Zimmerman.

If I'm the defense, I want no blacks on the jury. A single black may result in a hung jury, and I'm looking for an outright acquittal. Other than that, I want less women and more men. I MIGHT want Hispanics, but this depends largely on how they appear. Are they more conservative looking or less so? Are they younger or older? Are they Cuban? (Cubans tend to be more conservative.) Are they lighter skinned like Zimmerman, or darker skinned?

I know that a lot of what I've just written isn't politically correct, but I think it's probably accurate. Anyone disagree?

I would imagine their socio-economic position and education, would be more important than race.

It should be, but I have a feeling it won't be, especially with regard to the potential black jurors.

I'm kind of amazed that the pool is down to 75% white and only 15% black. Do you know the composition of the original pool? Do you know the usage of peremptory challenges? Has the DA argued Batson on any of the defense's strikes?

 

[kentric]

Confrontation / Fight: TM body and phone 30 or 40 feet away from T where GZ alleges he was attacked. GZ chased TM down the T. Witness heard confrontation moving in that direction. GZ advancing, chasing fuarking azzhole punk to prevent him from always getting away. TM retreating. No GZ blood found in vicinity of T. TM has only one tiny cut on his knuckle

Inconsistent with administering MMA beating. GZ has minor scrapes on head, inconsistent with beating head repeatedly against sidewalk. GZ sustained broken nose after he chased TM down and attempted to keep him from getting away. GZ started the fight

I agree that the State will try play up the distance as proof of a chase. 40 feet without context sounds like a long distance but if you say that the body was 13 yards or 15 steps from the T it suddenly does not look as bad. Even though there is a debris trail that leads down the path from the T to the location of the body, the defense will try to claim the fight started at or near the final location, giving the appearance of a least following by GZ.

This is a cut n paste from a pro zimmerman blogger...just thought it was interesting.

Not sure where the 30-40 feet came from. The only thing l would add to the above is that John (the witness) stated that it appears the argument/yelling appeared to be moving closer and closer to his apartment (I believe his fiancee said the same thing). Whether they in fact covered alot of distance or not or, it was just an accoustical issue, we don't know.

 

[kentric]

40 jurors left. 29 are white, 6 black, 3 Hispanic, 2 mixed race. 24 are women, 16 are men. Most are middle-aged or older. Let's try and figure out what the prosecution and defense are thinking.

If I'm the prosecution, I want every black I can get, and then the mixed race. The Hispanics make me nervous. I want as many women as I can. (Women tend to be more uncomfortable than men when it comes to guns.) I want as few white middle-aged men as possible. They're the ones most likely to sympathize with George Zimmerman.

If I'm the defense, I want no blacks on the jury. A single black may result in a hung jury, and I'm looking for an outright acquittal. Other than that, I want less women and more men. I MIGHT want Hispanics, but this depends largely on how they appear. Are they more conservative looking or less so? Are they younger or older? Are they Cuban? (Cubans tend to be more conservative.) Are they lighter skinned like Zimmerman, or darker skinned?

I know that a lot of what I've just written isn't politically correct, but I think it's probably accurate. Anyone disagree?

It requires a unanimous decision to acquit in Florida for this type of offense?

 

[pantherclub]

Confrontation / Fight: TM body and phone 30 or 40 feet away from T where GZ alleges he was attacked. GZ chased TM down the T. Witness heard confrontation moving in that direction. GZ advancing, chasing fuarking azzhole punk to prevent him from always getting away. TM retreating. No GZ blood found in vicinity of T. TM has only one tiny cut on his knuckle

Inconsistent with administering MMA beating. GZ has minor scrapes on head, inconsistent with beating head repeatedly against sidewalk. GZ sustained broken nose after he chased TM down and attempted to keep him from getting away. GZ started the fight

I agree that the State will try play up the distance as proof of a chase. 40 feet without context sounds like a long distance but if you say that the body was 13 yards or 15 steps from the T it suddenly does not look as bad. Even though there is a debris trail that leads down the path from the T to the location of the body, the defense will try to claim the fight started at or near the final location, giving the appearance of a least following by GZ.

This is a cut n paste from a pro zimmerman blogger...just thought it was interesting.

Not sure where the 30-40 feet came from. The only thing l would add to the above is that John (the witness) stated that it appears the argument/yelling appeared to be moving closer and closer to his apartment (I believe his fiancee said the same thing). Whether they in fact covered alot of distance or not or, it was just an accoustical issue, we don't know.

that contradicts zimmermans story then no?

 

[kentric]

Confrontation / Fight: TM body and phone 30 or 40 feet away from T where GZ alleges he was attacked. GZ chased TM down the T. Witness heard confrontation moving in that direction. GZ advancing, chasing fuarking azzhole punk to prevent him from always getting away. TM retreating. No GZ blood found in vicinity of T. TM has only one tiny cut on his knuckle

Inconsistent with administering MMA beating. GZ has minor scrapes on head, inconsistent with beating head repeatedly against sidewalk. GZ sustained broken nose after he chased TM down and attempted to keep him from getting away. GZ started the fight

I agree that the State will try play up the distance as proof of a chase. 40 feet without context sounds like a long distance but if you say that the body was 13 yards or 15 steps from the T it suddenly does not look as bad. Even though there is a debris trail that leads down the path from the T to the location of the body, the defense will try to claim the fight started at or near the final location, giving the appearance of a least following by GZ.

This is a cut n paste from a pro zimmerman blogger...just thought it was interesting.

Not sure where the 30-40 feet came from. The only thing l would add to the above is that John (the witness) stated that it appears the argument/yelling appeared to be moving closer and closer to his apartment (I believe his fiancee said the same thing). Whether they in fact covered alot of distance or not or, it was just an accoustical issue, we don't know.

that contradicts zimmermans story then no?

It definately raises doubts.

 

[timschochet]

40 jurors left. 29 are white, 6 black, 3 Hispanic, 2 mixed race. 24 are women, 16 are men. Most are middle-aged or older. Let's try and figure out what the prosecution and defense are thinking.

If I'm the prosecution, I want every black I can get, and then the mixed race. The Hispanics make me nervous. I want as many women as I can. (Women tend to be more uncomfortable than men when it comes to guns.) I want as few white middle-aged men as possible. They're the ones most likely to sympathize with George Zimmerman.

If I'm the defense, I want no blacks on the jury. A single black may result in a hung jury, and I'm looking for an outright acquittal. Other than that, I want less women and more men. I MIGHT want Hispanics, but this depends largely on how they appear. Are they more conservative looking or less so? Are they younger or older? Are they Cuban? (Cubans tend to be more conservative.) Are they lighter skinned like Zimmerman, or darker skinned?

I know that a lot of what I've just written isn't politically correct, but I think it's probably accurate. Anyone disagree?

It requires a unanimous decision to acquit in Florida for this type of offense?

I don't think it's any different in Florida than anywhere else- (someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that.) Normally the verdict of either guilty or not guilty must be unanimous, otherwise the result is a hung jury and the prosecution has to start over.

 

[kentric]

40 jurors left. 29 are white, 6 black, 3 Hispanic, 2 mixed race. 24 are women, 16 are men. Most are middle-aged or older. Let's try and figure out what the prosecution and defense are thinking.

If I'm the prosecution, I want every black I can get, and then the mixed race. The Hispanics make me nervous. I want as many women as I can. (Women tend to be more uncomfortable than men when it comes to guns.) I want as few white middle-aged men as possible. They're the ones most likely to sympathize with George Zimmerman.

If I'm the defense, I want no blacks on the jury. A single black may result in a hung jury, and I'm looking for an outright acquittal. Other than that, I want less women and more men. I MIGHT want Hispanics, but this depends largely on how they appear. Are they more conservative looking or less so? Are they younger or older? Are they Cuban? (Cubans tend to be more conservative.) Are they lighter skinned like Zimmerman, or darker skinned?

I know that a lot of what I've just written isn't politically correct, but I think it's probably accurate. Anyone disagree?

It requires a unanimous decision to acquit in Florida for this type of offense?

I don't think it's any different in Florida than anywhere else- (someone can correct me if I'm wrong about that.) Normally the verdict of either guilty or not guilty must be unanimous, otherwise the result is a hung jury and the prosecution has to start over.

This is Florida we're talking here. Its never good to assume anything with regard to Florida or California.

 

[Toad_1234]

Six jurors chosen; alternates being chosen now

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-day-9-20130620,0,6563690.story

SANFORD —A jury has been selected in the George Zimmerman second-degree murder trial.

It is comprised of six women, five of them white.

Attorneys are in the process of choosing the four alternates in the case.

The lawyers are currently discussing which jurors they want to strike from the jury pool, and choosing those who will ultimately try the high profile case.

Each side, state and defense, can excuse 10 jurors without having to explain why. In addition, other jurors will likely be excused "for cause" should Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson decide they're unfit.

The attorneys and judge hope the process will find 10Seminole County residents — six jurors and four alternates — to try the case.

The potential jurors were questioned this morning by Zimmerman defense attorney Mark O'Mara. When he finished, the jurors were sent out for lunch.

This morning, O'Mara started by asking potential jurors about their thoughts on reasonable doubt and the presumption of innocence. He asked juror K-95 what her verdict would be today.

"It would be not guilty," the potential juror replied. Juror B-35 added that he believes "that a person is innocent until proven guilty," and state must prove its case.

Said juror B-72 on the state's burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt: "That's the way the system works, I've never questioned it."

O'Mara also attacked prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda's assertion from Wednesday that circumstantial evidence is just as good as direct evidence. Circumstantial evidence, O'Mara said, doesn't necessarily rule out "a reasonable hypothesis... of innocence."

Several jurors expressed similar views, with one saying she couldn't base a guilty verdict entirely on circumstantial evidence.

The defense lawyer later moved on to gun rights: Do any jurors, he asked, have issues with the Constitutional right of citizens to bear arms?

Juror B-37 said she takes issues with the types of guns some people own, and added that the training needed to get a concealed weapon permit is "not adequate... It's like, that's it?"

However, she said she wouldn't factor her feelings on that into a verdict.

The jurors were also asked about their ability to set aside what they know. E-22 said "it's difficult to stand outside yourself," but being in a group will help.

O'Mara told the jurors it's alright for them to use their common sense, "we really mean that. We don't expect you to become robots in this courtroom."

O'Mara also told the jurors they can consider witness' biases in evaluating testimony. Several jurors said they can do that.

Said B-51: "I wasn't aware... that those are considerations for us," later adding, "It's good to know that because I didn't know that."

 

[CurlyNight]

Who does an all female jury benefit?

5 are white and 1 is black/hispanic. 4 alternates are 2 men/2 women but don't know race. I don't know why they named the alternates from now. In Arias case they did at the end to ensure everyone is paying close attention. I'm surprised the prosecutors went with this: whites mostly..

 

[CurlyNight]

Who does an all female jury benefit?

I don't think it benefits either side. You could say females will be sensitive to a child who was unarmed since we are more motherly thinking or Zimmerman if they really have in back of their minds the racist card. I think it will be a hung jury myself because like Arias, you cant say for sure what exactly happened especially since one of the two involved is dead...

 

[kentric]

Who does an all female jury benefit?

I don't think it benefits either side. You could say females will be sensitive to a child who was unarmed since we are more motherly thinking or Zimmerman if they really have in back of their minds the racist card. I think it will be a hung jury myself because like Arias, you cant say for sure what exactly happened especially since one of the two involved is dead...

If you're talking sensitivity, Zimmerman can be portrayed as someone looking out for his family. He's on the neighborhood watch, numerous calls to 911, helps out neighbors/friends. It will also be difficult to portray Martin as a child based on his pictures/stature.