guncrib
Footballguy
except if you rigged them to explode you wouldnt hide them as well as a cam you were trying to hide.
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Former acquaintance shot and killed while shackled...apparently. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
- Start date
Arid Filch
Footballguy
There are people on both sides trying to spin the narrative. Almost all the cases I have read about have involved criminals being murdered by police. Punch a cop, death sentence. Refuse to obey orders, death sentence. Cops are judge, jury, and executioner and probably always have been, but these cases are now receiving more coverage. Some people are okay with this, some people are not.
Personally, I view it as incompetence on the part of the police. Here is a guy who has already proven himself to be dangerous and somehow a group of officers take him into the woods and allow him to make a legitimate grab for one of their guns? Seriously? Either they are Keystone Cops or they are lying. Either way, I don't want them in uniform.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Never heard about the kid porn. I did hear through the grapevine that the NAACP is involved now.
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3751575/More-explosive-devices-woods-suspect-s-death.html
If he wrestled with an officer and tried to grab his gun, there is really nothing to see here. I don't feel much sympathy if a bomb making, kiddie porn watching man is dead.
If he wrestled with an officer and tried to grab his gun, there is really nothing to see here. I don't feel much sympathy if a bomb making, kiddie porn watching man is dead.
msommer
Footballguy
It's the modern equivalent of "shot while trying to escape"
Convenient that it took place in the woods away from any neutral witnesses, no?
bueno
In a class by himself
You need better friends.
poopdawg
Footballguy
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poopdawg
Footballguy
Yeah, kill him...
OP said this guy has been a long-time friend... but the actions of this friend are pretty indefensible (especially if the kid-porn stuff is true). STILL doesn't necessarily warrant justifying shooting him dead, given the limited info at hand. he tried to escape? and... ? Kill him. but because cops are under heat for shootings, and are just doing their jobs, it's ok- questioning them or the strange accounts surround these shootings amounts to hating cops.
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Weird story. Sorry for the loss of your friend.
El Floppo
Footballguy
not saying that article isn't based on facts... but IME, the dailymail isn't terribly trustworthy for reporting them.
MAC_32
Footballguy
3 sides to every story. When one side is dead it is a lot easier for the other side to spin the truth to whatever makes them look best.
St. Louis Bob
Footballguy
My Grandfathers old friend Goebbels gave him the same advice in regards to his old friend Einstein.
Sconch
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Haven't talked with him I probably 20 years.
. Hence the "old" adjective. If he went for a gun, well he had it coming. 
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
While I agree in principal and having nothing to do with this case, the cops do the same thing. It takes less than a news cycle before we're told the extensive rap sheet guys killed have. It almost always has zero to do with the case and is only told to put public opinion on the sides of police. Overall, I don't care, take out the trash so to speak, but let's not pretend the court of public opinion is played by just one side.
Tom Skerritt
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I find that the past actions of the criminal and the cop involved are relevant when there isnt any other evidence. If you have a cop without any mishaps and you have a criminal that has been convicted several times and might even have an open warrant, if the only evidence is the cops word it simply isnt fair to view it any other way.
Obviously forensic evidence, video, or reliable eyewitness testimony trumps that, but often that isnt available.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
He was
apprently he changed. You are implying that I'm trying to convince somebody of something when I'm not. I just thought it was an interesting story. Have s good day.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Content aside, was this article written by a 7th grader? I found several spelling errors and the narrative was all over the place. Content didn't match headlines in a few cases. Is this a blog or a news outlet?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Changed the title. He was more an acquaintance to me. A good fried of a good fried more accurately. And if he was a pedo, well that's about as terrible a person as you can get. Also now sounds like he went for the gun. In that case, well you get killed.
Arid Filch
Footballguy
It is an interesting story and I am glad you shared it. No one should fault you for having been friendly with the guy in the past. Maybe he changed or maybe he always had a bit of wickedness in him and masked it well.He was
I find it interesting how seemingly intelligent people are so quick to accept the narratives presented by law enforcement. Supposedly, there was a struggle, the perp went for a gun and was therefore shot and killed. If the struggle was real, it seems that whoever fired the shot would have been endangering at least one of his fellow officers. Smells like bull####. And the child porn angle seems like a blatant play on public perception. One image on the computer? I believe a pedophile would have loads of images and videos in their history. This story can't be taken at face value. Maybe your old friend deserved to die but that was not law enforcement's decision to make.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
I agree. If he was shackled, how did he get a weapon.
The pedo angle is sad if true. Again we will never know as he won't go to trial now. However apparently they filed for a warrant on that aspect back in July so it was at least in the radar.
The pedo angle is sad if true. Again we will never know as he won't go to trial now. However apparently they filed for a warrant on that aspect back in July so it was at least in the radar.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Smart title change. Old friend sounds more like someone you've known for a long time.Haven't talked with him I probably 20 years.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
This is the exact thing i am talking about. You know jack #### about this town. You dont know these cops. You dont know this guy. You didnt read this article at all. If you did you would know the reason they only found one picture was because they stopped looking immediately to get a warrant to search for more after coming across one while looking for info on where the explosives were. Then the mellow ted kaczynski of gladstone decided to play ball and lead them to his bombs.
Now go ahead and do exactly what i said people like you do and even when given the real story, double down on your narrative. Yeah, the cops are certainly guilty here. No way could the dirtbag planting bombs in the woods have gone for an officers gun. Just impossible.
I find it pretty comical that you think the intelligent stance here is to think that the cops are feeding us all bs on this one. It certainly happens, but you cant even point to one single shred of evidence that leans that way in this case. In fact your case is so poor you had to make stuff up and act like you are some child porn expert to condemn them.
Nobody said believe everything the cops say all the time no matter what. What you should do is give hardworking police officers the benefit of the doubt when nothing points the other way.
There have been plenty of times the cops screwed up big time. Henry Ford posted a link in another thread that documents a lot of major police screw ups. Some bad ones in there. Some bad cops doing bad things.
What has been reported so far does not lead to that conclusion being warranted here. Multiple departments involved too.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
How does a guy in handcuffs get a gun from a professional cop?
Sabertooth
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Donkey Derp
Footballguy
they apparently fact check better than you since that is from court documents filed by the US Attorney's officeDonkey Derp
Footballguy
Arid Filch
Footballguy
You are correct that I know nothing about this situation and my skepticism may not be warranted. Everything I have said is pure speculation. But you appear to be operating with some sort of bias yourself. Why did you refer to them as "hardworking" police officers? What made you jump to that conclusion?
The part about child porn, I have no clue, and that alone would not have aroused any suspicion. It is the struggle in the woods that doesn't sit right. I'd love to see a reenactment but doubt that anyone will be pushing for that sort of investigation. After all, it appears this guy was a bad dude so there won't be much sympathy for his fate. I am trying to visual this scene and the only way I see this guy being an imminent threat to successfully grab a weapon (assuming all weapons were holstered) is if he was right up against an officer. And in that scenario, it would be difficult to get a clean kill shot without potentially harming the fellow officer. If there was distance between the perp and officer, then there is no justification to shoot to kill in my opinion, but I realize that others disagree.
Arid Filch
Footballguy
Also, the real story will only be known by those who were there so I will never have the opportunity to double down.
El Floppo
Footballguy
Much better, thanks.
.... Im not going to look at something linked to the huff post and think Its not slanted Heavily to one viewpoint, also not going to look at something from the dailymail and trust that Its been properly, or at all, fact checked.
As somebody who apparently uses the Internet, Its Strange that thats funny to you.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
That is my whole point. We should be biased to believe police officers until there is something that points to them not being believable.
The pendulum has swung the other way. People think you should look at cops in the most negative light possible and find every random theory you can to make it sound like they did wrong.
Arid Filch
Footballguy
You seem to be putting the police on a pedestal. As a collective, they are at best average people, influenced by emotions and prejudices, who make the same mistakes as anyone else. In this case, it is the story being presented that leads me to question the honesty of these officers. I have already explained why, short of major incompetence, shooting the perp during a "legitimate struggle" is hard to believe. Since you haven't offered a theory for how this could have occurred in such a way that would excuse their behavior, I will. Maybe they unshackled him so that he could pick up the trail cams. After all, better to let him pick up the trail cams, in case one of them is already rigged to explode. The perp is facing serious charges and may be a pedophile also. Maybe he just wants a way out and decides to charge at one of the officers. Suicide by cop or something similar. It's possible and I couldn't really blame the officer for taking a kill shot in that situation.
I don't believe that I am anti-police but my mindset has likely been influenced the videos seen over the last few years. In most cases, after watching these viral videos I have felt that the officers involved should be doing stints in jail for their actions, only to see them face no charges time and time again. It is disappointing. Cops should be held to a higher standard given the lethal force that they carry and employ. Most are decent but there are bad seeds among the crop and these need to be thrown out. But as we have seen, they are not. Clearly, there is a herd mentality and they will try to shield their own at all costs.
So yes, if one of the officer's got an itchy trigger finger for whatever reason, I do believe that the rest of the guys would fall in line for him. After all, the perp maimed a few innocent people and was believed to be a pedophile. No real loss there.
The past actions of the police have caused reasonable people to feel this way. If the pendulum swung as you claim, the cops have no one to blame but themselves.
Completely disagree with the bolded, but would be interested in hearing why you think that? What makes police officers any more believable than a random member of the public?
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I mostly consider them to be average people and have stressed that point before. I try to put myself in their shoes when situations occur and make judgments through what would I do looking glasses. That is where the level of respect comes in. When I put myself in their shoes, i instantly am reminded of how I would never in a million years do their job.
They perform a job that we need. That simple fact puts them a bit above the average citizen. My job doesnt have that same level of public need. I consider my job important, but I would never say that it is an absolute public need.
They also face a level of danger in their jobs that most of us will never see and we can talk all we want about how perfect we would handle any one of those situations, but you just never know until you are in one.
Cjw_55106
Footballguy
Generally Id say they arent more believable than a random member of the public. With little other information, if I had to choose to believe a random officer or a guy with a mile long rap sheet, I'll likely choose to believe the office nearly all the time.
I agree, somewhat with the first statement. But, that assumes a normal distribution of the public become police officers. Anecdotally, I would say that there are a higher percentage of people drawn to law enforcement who crave power and control, than exist in the general population. And, in my experience, people who crave power and control, tend to prioritize keeping power and control over other moral guidelines. Obviously does not apply to every law enforcement officer - just an observation.
As for any given situation - I would not believe a person solely because of their occupation, nor would I automatically disbelieve someone based on their past deeds. Not all criminals are liars, and not all police officers are truth-tellers. I'd be open to allow that either or both could lie, or either or both could be honest, given the various motivations a situation presents.
But, I don't prefer one over the other before I hear what they have to say.
El Floppo
Footballguy
agree pretty much with this. I have a limited experience being friends/acquaintances with law-enforcement (couple of sheriffs, a few cops), but the control/power thing rings pretty true for them. but along with it- for 4/5- was a further belief that they were doing something to help; and it's that ideal that keeps me respecting law-enforcement.
that said, the 5th guy... gb's roommate in and post-college- a typical "bro", neither good or bad. after a year on the force in Oakland CA (rough), he turned into a raging ####### and racist, knowing that he had a level of carte-blanche to get away with being an idiot if he flashed his badge: drunk (hammered) driving, calling every black or hispanic person a "perp", shooting his gun, getting in people's faces over nothing and then waving his badge. in fact, the only time I didn't see him react in a way like this was when we saw a guy trying to break into a car across the street from a bar- I'm looking at the racist-cop waiting for him to do... anything. nope. so I have to yell at the thief to get him to stop what he was doing. but of course, that's an extreme anecdotal example- one person. but it did give me a glimpse into the mindset a bit, especially because I'd talk with him (call him out) on his bs..."if you saw what I saw every day with these animals, you'd be the same way".
but as an aside- the increase of video coverage of cops behaving badly (something that I highly doubt is new behavior) is showing a large group of the public that these people who, at an ideal, are here to selflessly help society... aren't always. so people have knee-jerk reactions that all or most cops are behaving like this... which of course also isn't true. hopefully the pendulum will swing to a balance in terms of public perception, but more hopefully that's a result of the cops that aren't, behaving better- even if they're doing so only for fear of being caught on video.
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