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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter belljr
- Start date
TLEF316
Footballguy
And you dont think its gone just a TAD too far in the other direction the past few years? Really?
You can certainly have a female heroine and make GREAT story out of it. For the majority of its run, GOT's was just that. Plenty of other great examples.
But I worry this is gonna be "all men BAD.....little girl GOOD" and that they'll essentially infantalize all the male characters to drive home THE MESSAGE. Too many recent examples of this for me to not be skeptical.
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FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I'll be interested to see the ratings on this. If GoT had done anything close to maintaining its quality at the end this would probably be one of the most anticipated new shows of all-time right now. Instead I bet 4 of every 5 people that watched GoT don't even know this show is releasing in less than a month.
There was a time when I considered GoT the greatest show of all time. The last two seasons (especially the last) killed that. I'm probably going to wait for reviews on this one to see if it's worth watching. I'm totally judging a book by its cover here but the trailers look like all spectacle and no substance, which was basically the biggest problem with GoT s8.
There was a time when I considered GoT the greatest show of all time. The last two seasons (especially the last) killed that. I'm probably going to wait for reviews on this one to see if it's worth watching. I'm totally judging a book by its cover here but the trailers look like all spectacle and no substance, which was basically the biggest problem with GoT s8.
Yeah, I loved the first few seasons of Game of Thrones, but I'm not planning to watch any of the spin-offs.
Its amazing how one final season ruined one of the best shows of all time and a possible HBO franchise. Even now when the GoT reruns from early seasons are on I find myself disgusted knowing how things turn out and cant even watch them.
culdeus
Footballguy
Capella
Footballguy
I dunno man why don’t we wait and see. What I know is, white men complaining about white men not being the hero/main story is just hard to believe.
Capella
Footballguy
TLEF316
Footballguy
Plenty of excellent non white and non male characters in the original show. And (from what I've heard....I haven't read/dug into any of Martin's written material outside of the first couple of books. Not my thing) there are plenty of good opportunities to explore non-white characters with some of his other material.
I just think its odd that they would just take characters from the source material and just make them black for the sake of having a black noble family in Westeros (apparently the dreadlocks guy is supposed to be this dude )
It just seems so transparent to me (do TV execs really just assume that people ONLY watch shows that have characters with the same skin tone as them?) and adds nothing (and to be fair....detracts nothing, at least for me) to the story.
Like all entertainment, this show is big business and at its heart...a moneymaking/PR exercise. So I'm sure at some point, the bean-counters at HBO decided they'd rather deal with a bunch of basement dwellers on reddit screaming about "OMG there shouldn't be black guyz there" rather than read a bunch of click bait articles about how their show is racist because nearly everyone on a continent modeled after medieval Europe is white . Can't say I blame them there
I hope the show is good. GOT was my favorite show ever before they faceplanted the landing (I know you disagree with that and think it was fine, but you're probably in the minority on that opinion, which is cool)
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Capella
Footballguy
I watched it again and don’t think it was great or anything, or even that good (I guess that means fine lol) but I do think in general that people overreacted to it because it was their favorite show or they had their own idea for a finale etc.
The white walker episode was terrible but the finale was ok. Certainly not bad enough for it to color the previous seasons or a future show.
Capella
Footballguy
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
The bolded is most definitely true. I've visited a few forums/reddit subs for ASOIAF and I can't tell you how many posts start out with "as we all know, _____ has to ______ before the end of the books.......". No, we DON'T know that. I thought Martin had a great comment on this line of thinking when he said something like "I could just have an asteroid hit Westeros and kill everyone in two pages". I sometimes wish he would do just that.
Yeah, getting Matt Smith was a coup for this show. Instantly gave it legitimacy in my mind. Maybe he ends up hamming it up or not being able to save the writers from themselves, but definitely worth giving it a shot.
I don't think it will matter at all if there are a few PoC in the main cast, it all hinges on the writing.
Minor Spoiler Break
If they follow the source material (things that don't exist) it's going to be hard to have anyone to root for like a Jon Snow for example. Pretty much everyone is not wholly bad or good like the Starks were in GoT (in fact the Lord Stark of that time is actually a bit of an #######.) No one ends up really 'winning' this war. Although GRRM was not heavily involved, so they may very well depart from the source material.
If they follow the source material (things that don't exist) it's going to be hard to have anyone to root for like a Jon Snow for example. Pretty much everyone is not wholly bad or good like the Starks were in GoT (in fact the Lord Stark of that time is actually a bit of an #######.) No one ends up really 'winning' this war. Although GRRM was not heavily involved, so they may very well depart from the source material.
More spoiler space
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Captain Cranks
Footballguy
Yep. I like all my characters played by whites unless they're slaves or something. I need fictional fantasies to feel authentic.Welp, I'll never re-up with HBO to watch this since they have a black guy with blond dreads in this show
Good lord, folks.......
It’s not a documentary. None of this ever happened.
Experience is a function of expectation. It's why things rarely live up to the hype. Now that we know how the final season ends, our expectations are lowered and we can enjoy it more.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
What are all these examples? How can you tell which stories just feature female characters and which are "shoehorned" or just there for wokeness sake?
No, I don't think it's gone too far. I don't struggle finding a ton of content where straight, white dudes are the main characters. Just about any huge blockbuster are these storylines. A lot of times the examples I read are ones where main female characters are in the source material. GoT, Wheel of Time, etc.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I guess my overall point is there are changes made all the time to the characters for a variety of reasons. Are we upset that the kids were aged up, Tyrion was too good looking, they combine characters for streamlining etc. Why is having a family black any different, and why is the jump to the reasoning wokeness?
I guess it could be. I could also be:
- that actor nailed the audition
- the show runners know the actors or wanted to work with them
- HBO's marketing shows they get more watches with a diverse cast and are making that knowing choice naturally and not because of a perceived internet blacklash
- it's not a big deal because their race/skin color weren't a central part of the story.
Besides something ridiculous like a serious bio pick Abe Lincoln starring a black actor playing him, not sure what the big deal is.
I guess it could be. I could also be:
- that actor nailed the audition
- the show runners know the actors or wanted to work with them
- HBO's marketing shows they get more watches with a diverse cast and are making that knowing choice naturally and not because of a perceived internet blacklash
- it's not a big deal because their race/skin color weren't a central part of the story.
Besides something ridiculous like a serious bio pick Abe Lincoln starring a black actor playing him, not sure what the big deal is.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
It’s not a documentary. None of this ever happened.
The writers in the quote above pretty much laid out, by definition, they made explicit efforts to rewrite characters differently from the source material in order to represent diversity, ie "woke".
You can support it or not support it - denying it is happening while supporting it/attacking those that don't support it... seems a weird way to go.
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foxco
Footballguy
I'm one of the few who didn't hate the last two seasons. They didn't have the quality of the first 4, and they certainly hurried things way too much, but I was okay with where most of the characters ended up. Still my favorite all time show and I throw a random episode on fairly often.
That said, the trailer didn't really give me high hopes that this will be early GOT quality. Rooting for it cause I love the world, but difficult to replace the rich, colorful characters of the original.
Could care less what color people are as long as they're good characters and can act.
That said, the trailer didn't really give me high hopes that this will be early GOT quality. Rooting for it cause I love the world, but difficult to replace the rich, colorful characters of the original.
Could care less what color people are as long as they're good characters and can act.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I guess I make a distinction as I laid it out above, and think the motivations are completely different:
1. People making the product are making a conscious choice to have a diverse cast. There could be different reasons for this: financial, the best audition was a black actor and they morphed the family around them, etc.
2. People making the product are making that choice out of fear of backlash from the woke online warriors. OR had it cast one way and changed because of outcry.
I guess I don't have any issues with #1, but it seems people do. #2 I have issues with.
Capella
Footballguy
A diverse cast is not being ‘woke’ it is simply recognizing we live in a diverse world so your fairly tale should represent the same.
A cast entirely composed of resentful white men might more accurately depict the lives of those complaining all the time when a network has the audacity of casting a black or asian actor but I’m guessing that is not HBO’s target audience.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Including skin color? How accurately did the casting of GoT reflect descriptions of characters in the books?
Tom Hagen
Footballguy
You aren’t going to believe this but I vaguely remember the books mentioning that a dragon is both male and female.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
It's been a bit, so I will defer more to the more hard-core book readers. My recollection is that yes, in general the people of Westeros were mostly light skinned and the people across the sea were darker skinned.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
Like I said - denying its existence then immediately following with support of the thing you say isn't there.. Weird, but you got this.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
This is what happens in the psf. 2 people have different ideas of what "woke" is or different things come to mind when they read it. Inevitably the are usually talking the same thing, one thinks of it far more negatively than the other, then accusations fly about denying its existence and the like.
People also have a way different tolerance level for things too. We saw that during discussions of The Floor is Lava and a clip it showed of contests in drag.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
It's a silly conversation. Most books that have been adapted to TV/movies have some characters that have a different skin color than they do in the books. Doubly so for older books that were written at a time when races were viewed differently.
It only became something people "cared" (or pretended to care) about when "woke" became a bad word that whineyheads started trying to fit into every day conversation as much as possible.
Heck probably my favorite show ever, The Expanse, had two pasty white guys in the early seasons that I'm now reading through the books and finding out in the books they were a dark skinned Indian and a hispanic guy. I guess I should have known better given their names, but if they can pull off that Sadavir and Esteban from the books are pasty white guys in the show I think we can suspend disbelief that Lord Corlys Velaryon might or might not be black.
It only became something people "cared" (or pretended to care) about when "woke" became a bad word that whineyheads started trying to fit into every day conversation as much as possible.
Heck probably my favorite show ever, The Expanse, had two pasty white guys in the early seasons that I'm now reading through the books and finding out in the books they were a dark skinned Indian and a hispanic guy. I guess I should have known better given their names, but if they can pull off that Sadavir and Esteban from the books are pasty white guys in the show I think we can suspend disbelief that Lord Corlys Velaryon might or might not be black.
Capella
Footballguy
Diversity is there. Diversity isn’t ‘woke’, it’s just reality. It’s not the 70s anymore bro.
massraider
Footballguy
If this gets even remotely good reviews, it'll be a smash.
Punxsutawney Phil
Footballguy
In the Halo series they replaced Captain Keys with a black guy, and it didn't change anything imo.
Punxsutawney Phil
Footballguy
Am I missing something here? It looks like there is only one black guy int he cast.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11198330/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11198330/
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
A lot of people in Dorne were darker than those further north, so not everyone in Westeros was pasty white. The TV show kind of captured that with the casting of the Dornish characters.
beer 30
Footballguy
The different races represented in GoT’s reflected pretty much how our world is made up. I’d say the series did a pretty good job representing that.
This is a great example, I always pictured the people of Dorne as sort of Spanish in my head for some reason. Thought the series depicted that really well.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
A dragon has no chance versus a scorpion…scorpions don’t stand a chance versus dragons.
BTW I have zero issues with them casting a black actor and will watch the show. My only issue was with a poster saying it wasn't woke to do so. When the writers say they want to add diversity to the cast since alot has changed since 2011 that is the literal definition of woke.
aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)
Again I have no issues with it but let's call a spade a spade here. It's disingenuous to deny it.
aware of and actively attentive to important facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)
Again I have no issues with it but let's call a spade a spade here. It's disingenuous to deny it.
