Hip drop tackle: what is it? Should it be a penalty? Will the refs even be able to identify and call it correctly? (2 Viewers)

[Da Guru]

It’s a thing and it’s real.

This is a consequence of players, not being allowed to hit anymore.

I believe other people in this thread have made the same claim...but I disagree that hip drop tackles are a consequence of other rule changes.

What rule has changed how players can effectively tackle in the open field? Defenders can't blast players that are already out of bounds? Defenders can't head hunt?

Realistically it's just horse collar tackles that were taken away before this...and they were banned for the same reason hip drop tackles are now.

Once someone initiates a hip drop or horse collar tackle, the ball carrier can't even give himself up safely, as Brady would always do.

The problem with this is not everyone has the job security of Tom Brady, so other ball carriers get put into a darned if they do...darned if they don't scenario between reaching the line to gain versus risking sustaining lower leg fractures and knee injuries.

Well, it will be a penalty now if called by officials. It will probably have to be looked at by replay before calling it.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

I played football up to and into college. Mostly CB and safety. If I want to purposefully hurt someone I know how.

Complete and total lies. Your comment about it being a dirty play guarantees you never played. If you did at all you never went above flag or 80’s. I’m willing to bet you never played.

To even insinuate it’s dirty would point to you thinking it’s intentional. No one who’s played would look at the examples the league sent and consider them to be done with intent to harm.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

hip drop tackles are a consequence of other rule changes.

You’re right. They’re not this thought out. You have a guy running away from you, who’s big and strong. You’re not consciously thinking “since they took away me being able to hit him let me roll up on his legs”…..you’re simply thinking of getting him down to the best of your abilities.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

hip drop tackles are a consequence of other rule changes.

You’re right. They’re not this thought out. You have a guy running away from you, who’s big and strong. You’re not consciously thinking “since they took away me being able to hit him let me roll up on his legs”…..you’re simply thinking of getting him down to the best of your abilities.

I agree, but now that the technique will be penalized and possibly result in a fine, defensive players will consciously avoid it and will adjust. Tripping, grabbing the facemask and the horsecollar are also effective ways to bring someone down, but those are all pretty rare now and probably almost never done intentionally. The hip drop reportedly occurs about once per game over the past two seasons. Its a rare occurrence that will become even more rare, like the horsecollar has become (15 total horsecollar penalties last season or about 0.31 per team.)

 

[Bigboy10182000]

hip drop tackles are a consequence of other rule changes.

You’re right. They’re not this thought out. You have a guy running away from you, who’s big and strong. You’re not consciously thinking “since they took away me being able to hit him let me roll up on his legs”…..you’re simply thinking of getting him down to the best of your abilities.

I agree, but now that the technique will be penalized and possibly result in a fine, defensive players will consciously avoid it and will adjust. Tripping, grabbing the facemask and the horsecollar are also effective ways to bring someone down, but those are all pretty rare now and probably almost never done intentionally. The hip drop reportedly occurs about once per game over the past two seasons. Its a rare occurrence that will become even more rare, like the horsecollar has become (15 total horsecollar penalties last season or about 0.31 per team.)

I agree there to a point. I’m very curious how this will look when involving QB’s. Looking over a lot of the examples involving them, it appeared as though the defenders were trying to hold up and not fall onto them which would I result in another penalty.

A lot of the other examples were so bang-bang that I don’t if they can be avoided. They seemed very instinctual.

What we do know for sure, is that it will be called when it shouldn’t and affect a lot of games.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I played football up to and into college. Mostly CB and safety. If I want to purposefully hurt someone I know how.

Complete and total lies. Your comment about it being a dirty play guarantees you never played. If you did at all you never went above flag or 80’s. I’m willing to bet you never played.

To even insinuate it’s dirty would point to you thinking it’s intentional. No one who’s played would look at the examples the league sent and consider them to be done with intent to harm.

May you find the help you need.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

hip drop tackles are a consequence of other rule changes.

You’re right. They’re not this thought out. You have a guy running away from you, who’s big and strong. You’re not consciously thinking “since they took away me being able to hit him let me roll up on his legs”…..you’re simply thinking of getting him down to the best of your abilities.

I agree, but now that the technique will be penalized and possibly result in a fine, defensive players will consciously avoid it and will adjust. Tripping, grabbing the facemask and the horsecollar are also effective ways to bring someone down, but those are all pretty rare now and probably almost never done intentionally. The hip drop reportedly occurs about once per game over the past two seasons. Its a rare occurrence that will become even more rare, like the horsecollar has become (15 total horsecollar penalties last season or about 0.31 per team.)

I haven’t seen these plays that the NFL has shown as examples so I can’t (nor did I ever comment on those) but any sane person knows which plays we’re talking about.

Is this the further butchering of the game? Yes.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

@Bigboy10182000

Cut my words off to misquote me out of context...without even being tongue in cheek about it...you really are an Eagles fan.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

Gardner-Johnson hit the nail on the head in describing Eagles' fans.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

@Bigboy10182000

Cut my words off to misquote me out of context...without even being tongue in cheek about it...you really are an Eagles fan.

Nothing I quoted of yours changed your overall point lol. I wanted to focus on just that part. Why do you feel like this was a slight to you?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

hip drop tackles are a consequence of other rule changes.

You’re right. They’re not this thought out. You have a guy running away from you, who’s big and strong. You’re not consciously thinking “since they took away me being able to hit him let me roll up on his legs”…..you’re simply thinking of getting him down to the best of your abilities.

I agree, but now that the technique will be penalized and possibly result in a fine, defensive players will consciously avoid it and will adjust. Tripping, grabbing the facemask and the horsecollar are also effective ways to bring someone down, but those are all pretty rare now and probably almost never done intentionally. The hip drop reportedly occurs about once per game over the past two seasons. Its a rare occurrence that will become even more rare, like the horsecollar has become (15 total horsecollar penalties last season or about 0.31 per team.)

I haven’t seen these plays that the NFL has shown as examples so I can’t (nor did I ever comment on those) but any sane person knows which plays we’re talking about.

Is this the further butchering of the game? Yes.

So it’s a dirt *** play (your words) and you don’t even know which plays they’re talking about?

You can’t make this stuff up

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

hip drop tackles are a consequence of other rule changes.

You’re right. They’re not this thought out. You have a guy running away from you, who’s big and strong. You’re not consciously thinking “since they took away me being able to hit him let me roll up on his legs”…..you’re simply thinking of getting him down to the best of your abilities.

I agree, but now that the technique will be penalized and possibly result in a fine, defensive players will consciously avoid it and will adjust. Tripping, grabbing the facemask and the horsecollar are also effective ways to bring someone down, but those are all pretty rare now and probably almost never done intentionally. The hip drop reportedly occurs about once per game over the past two seasons. Its a rare occurrence that will become even more rare, like the horsecollar has become (15 total horsecollar penalties last season or about 0.31 per team.)

I haven’t seen these plays that the NFL has shown as examples so I can’t (nor did I ever comment on those) but any sane person knows which plays we’re talking about.

Is this the further butchering of the game? Yes.

So it’s a dirt *** play (your words) and you don’t even know which plays they’re talking about?

You can’t make this stuff up

I just watched the video. Most of those are legit. The Chiefs one is questionable.

You seem unwell. Do you need help?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

hip drop tackles are a consequence of other rule changes.

You’re right. They’re not this thought out. You have a guy running away from you, who’s big and strong. You’re not consciously thinking “since they took away me being able to hit him let me roll up on his legs”…..you’re simply thinking of getting him down to the best of your abilities.

I agree, but now that the technique will be penalized and possibly result in a fine, defensive players will consciously avoid it and will adjust. Tripping, grabbing the facemask and the horsecollar are also effective ways to bring someone down, but those are all pretty rare now and probably almost never done intentionally. The hip drop reportedly occurs about once per game over the past two seasons. Its a rare occurrence that will become even more rare, like the horsecollar has become (15 total horsecollar penalties last season or about 0.31 per team.)

I haven’t seen these plays that the NFL has shown as examples so I can’t (nor did I ever comment on those) but any sane person knows which plays we’re talking about.

Is this the further butchering of the game? Yes.

So it’s a dirt *** play (your words) and you don’t even know which plays they’re talking about?

You can’t make this stuff up

I just watched the video. Most of those are legit. The Chiefs one is questionable.

You seem unwell. Do you need help?

Now that you actually watched it after several posts you ask if I’m unwell?

So, after watching you can see these were consciously made decisions to injury, right? Being they’re dirty and in your fictional past you know how to injure people .

Now why did you feel the need to engage people on a topic when you didn’t even see what was being discussed? Thats clearly something only well and happy people do with their free time, right?

 

[Bigboy10182000]

Here’s the examples used.

If you want to say it’ll make the game safer that’s fair

If you’re saying it’s dirty and consciously done to injury, you’re clearly wrong.

 

[Da Guru]

When people think it is a dirty hit I disagree. Agree with DC that is is just a play that happens once in awhile.


So Dan Campbell was on local radio talking about the draft and whatever and was asked about the challenge rules changes and the hip drop came up and asked if he liked it.

DC said "I have played and coached in the NFL for over 20 years. I have never heard any coach talk about or coach that tackle, never heard any players talk about that kind of tackle. It is a fast violent sport man played by strong men, tackling is tough and sometimes it just happens"

That means you know dam well the Lions will take a big hip drop penalty to cost them a game. I have seen Aiden Hutchenson tackle this way a number of times, he is so tall he throws his legs away from the runner and pulls down with his body momentum. Will be interesting if that is called a penalty.

 

[Max Power]

When people think it is a dirty hit I disagree. Agree with DC that is is just a play that happens once in awhile.


So Dan Campbell was on local radio talking about the draft and whatever and was asked about the challenge rules changes and the hip drop came up and asked if he liked it.

DC said "I have played and coached in the NFL for over 20 years. I have never heard any coach talk about or coach that tackle, never heard any players talk about that kind of tackle. It is a fast violent sport man played by strong men, tackling is tough and sometimes it just happens"

That means you know dam well the Lions will take a big hip drop penalty to cost them a game. I have seen Aiden Hutchenson tackle this way a number of times, he is so tall he throws his legs away from the runner and pulls down with his body momentum. Will be interesting if that is called a penalty.

If he lands on the runners legs it will be. Or maybe a fine monday morning. I hate the idea that players are routinely going to have to wait a day or two after every game to find out if they've been fined by the league.

 

[Gally]

Its a rare occurrence that will become even more rare, like the horsecollar has become (15 total horsecollar penalties last season or about 0.31 per team.)

"Horsecollar" has expanded in what is actually called. Most of the horsecollar penalties I saw this year were not actual horsecollar tackles. They were tackles where the defender grabbed high on the back and some even through the guy forward.

Horsecollar originated with the grabbing of a runner high inside the shoulder pads and yanking backwards while also landing on their legs. Extremely dangerous play and rightfully something that should be eliminated from the game. Now it is can be as little as a grabbing the name plate and pulling the guy forward. Which isn't dangerous or a horsecollar. However, since the NFL changed the interpretation to have it be anytime a tackler uses the upper back to tackle it gets called much more than it should. I fear the hip drop will go in this direction.

 

[Gally]

I believe other people in this thread have made the same claim...but I disagree that hip drop tackles are a consequence of other rule changes.

I think the point of the claim is that they don't have time to practice tackling so their tackling is gotten so poor that they are having to resort to this type of dangerous tackle because they aren't putting them themselves in proper tackling position to make the tackle.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

I don't see why tripping is banned as a tackling technique...As long as it's not Defensive Lineman doing it at the line of scrimmage, it's much safer that horse collars and hip drops.

 

[Gally]

You have a guy running away from you, who’s big and strong. You’re not consciously thinking “since they took away me being able to hit him let me roll up on his legs”…..you’re simply thinking of getting him down to the best of your abilities.

Hip drop doesn't happen when a guy is already fully behind you. It happens when you are trying to tackle the guy from the side and the momentum of your side direction causes your legs to wrap around the runner. If the runner is already by you then you are diving at his legs and it's not a hip drop (it can be a horsecollar though).

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

More so than it being just "hip drops" ...I view the real danger being defenders pinning ball carriers lower legs with their body weight.

edit:
^ Which is a very effective way to stop a ball carrier, so ofcourse it's going to be utilized if allowed.

 

[Da Guru]

I don't see why tripping is banned as a tackling technique...As long as it's not Defensive Lineman doing it at the line of scrimmage, it's much safer that horse collars and hip drops.

Can`t actually "ban" any tackle or trip. Some will just get penalties now.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

The NFL just made the rule, and it already feels a bit dated...

It would have been better to use the terms "Ankle Trap/ Leg Whip" instead of "Hip Drop".

Like I see no problem with a player wrapping up with his arms and dropping his weight as long as he doesn't leg whip or trap the ball carriers lower leg.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

I don't see why tripping is banned as a tackling technique...As long as it's not Defensive Lineman doing it at the line of scrimmage, it's much safer that horse collars and hip drops.

Can`t actually "ban" any tackle or trip. Some will just get penalties now.

Tell that to Vontaze Burfict who essentially got blackballed by the NFL.

 

[Gally]

I don't see why tripping is banned as a tackling technique...As long as it's not Defensive Lineman doing it at the line of scrimmage, it's much safer that horse collars and hip drops.

Can`t actually "ban" any tackle or trip. Some will just get penalties now.

Tell that to Vontaze Burfict who got essentially got blackballed by the NFL.

He got blackballed because he was a cheap shot artist that had a few screws loose. The person got banned not the tackle

 

[Bigboy10182000]

You have a guy running away from you, who’s big and strong. You’re not consciously thinking “since they took away me being able to hit him let me roll up on his legs”…..you’re simply thinking of getting him down to the best of your abilities.

Hip drop doesn't happen when a guy is already fully behind you. It happens when you are trying to tackle the guy from the side and the momentum of your side direction causes your legs to wrap around the runner. If the runner is already by you then you are diving at his legs and it's not a hip drop (it can be a horsecollar though).

Watch the videos the league used as examples that I posted above.

 

[Gally]

You have a guy running away from you, who’s big and strong. You’re not consciously thinking “since they took away me being able to hit him let me roll up on his legs”…..you’re simply thinking of getting him down to the best of your abilities.

Hip drop doesn't happen when a guy is already fully behind you. It happens when you are trying to tackle the guy from the side and the momentum of your side direction causes your legs to wrap around the runner. If the runner is already by you then you are diving at his legs and it's not a hip drop (it can be a horsecollar though).

Watch the videos the league used as examples that I posted above.

Not one of those examples was a runner completely beyond the tackler. All of them had a tackler coming in from the side (slightly behind or even) and the momentum of their approach caused their body to fall on the legs. The QB in the pocket one was a bit different but not sure what that guy could have done differently.

Either way none of these are with the runner fully behind the tackler.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

You have a guy running away from you, who’s big and strong. You’re not consciously thinking “since they took away me being able to hit him let me roll up on his legs”…..you’re simply thinking of getting him down to the best of your abilities.

Hip drop doesn't happen when a guy is already fully behind you. It happens when you are trying to tackle the guy from the side and the momentum of your side direction causes your legs to wrap around the runner. If the runner is already by you then you are diving at his legs and it's not a hip drop (it can be a horsecollar though).

Watch the videos the league used as examples that I posted above.

Not one of those examples was a runner completely beyond the tackler. All of them had a tackler coming in from the side (slightly behind or even) and the momentum of their approach caused their body to fall on the legs. The QB in the pocket one was a bit different but not sure what that guy could have done differently.

Either way none of these are with the runner fully behind the tackler.

I’m not sure if you watched the entire 55 second video but the last few examples the runners tackler is behind the offensive player. I’m not gonna get into percentages behind lol. Some are slightly off to the side and some are behind.

Either way, what’s the point you’re attempting to make when you initially quoted me? Are you saying they are consciously trying to injure someone?

 

[Gally]

Either way, what’s the point you’re attempting to make when you initially quoted me? Are you saying they are consciously trying to injure someone?

No. I am saying that if the runner is fully behind the tackler (meaning the tackler is directly behind the runner) the hip drop is not a concern. The hip drop happens due to a lateral component of momentum from the tackler causing his legs to continue laterally to cause them to land on the runners legs. Not a dirty play trying to deliberately injure a player (see Wilson on Andrews).

 

[Todem]

Either way, what’s the point you’re attempting to make when you initially quoted me? Are you saying they are consciously trying to injure someone?

No. I am saying that if the runner is fully behind the tackler (meaning the tackler is directly behind the runner) the hip drop is not a concern. The hip drop happens due to a lateral component of momentum from the tackler causing his legs to continue laterally to cause them to land on the runners legs. Not a dirty play trying to deliberately injure a player (see Wilson on Andrews).

No...it's not deliberate.....but it has become more and more common over the last 5 years.

It's a nasty nasty and dangerous way to bring down a ball carrier.

How the referee crews interpret this rule change will be crucial to guys changing their tackle habits.

I am one who feels strongly the defense has been neutered a lot....and I love great hitting as much as the next guy here. I am 54. Been watching football for 49 years now and also played it for a bit before I chose baseball full time in high school because I was a lot better at baseball and knew I might not make it to baseball season healthy playing football. And I played Safety!!! Lol.

Anyway I hope the instances of that pull down leg whip where the entire weight of the defensive player is collapsing on the ball carriers legs from the knee and below on his back side is highly discouraged.

You rarely saw that and like I said over the last 5 years or so it is becoming more and more common and it is simply a dangerous career threatening type of tackle "technique"

Let's see how it is enforced.

 

[ghostguy123]

Here’s the examples used.

If you want to say it’ll make the game safer that’s fair

If you’re saying it’s dirty and consciously done to injury, you’re clearly wrong.

If those are now penalties, then the countdown to the NFL being irrelevant starts now

 

[Snoopy]

Here’s the examples used.

If you want to say it’ll make the game safer that’s fair

If you’re saying it’s dirty and consciously done to injury, you’re clearly wrong.

If those are now penalties, then the countdown to the NFL being irrelevant starts now

It already started with games being moved to pay streaming only.

 

[Gruden's Keyboard]

And Sunday Ticket being on Youtube sucks...Are we moving backwards? Gimme back my octobox! I know games are rigged, at least let me watch all of them for the entertainment value

 

[3C's]

For all the "this has been the technique for years" guys and the "how are they going to tackle" guys. You're wrong, it hasn't been around forever and they will still be able to tackle, they'll just have to wrap up like the good ole days. John Harbaugh, who I'm guessing knows a lot more than anyone here, says it perfectly here. And that pains me to say as a Ravens hater.

https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/1777736955347747272

 

[CletiusMaximus]

For all the "this has been the technique for years" guys and the "how are they going to tackle" guys. You're wrong, it hasn't been around forever and they will still be able to tackle, they'll just have to wrap up like the good ole days. John Harbaugh, who I'm guessing knows a lot more than anyone here, says it perfectly here. And that pains me to say as a Ravens hater.

https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/1777736955347747272

Yeah, I was listening to a podcast this week from a guy I normally respect and he lead the discussion with a false definition of the infraction ("grabbing from behind and pulling down") - ignoring the two defining characteristics of the penalty - then immediately went into the "how are they supposed to tackle?" rant. Was happy he lead with that stuff so I was able to delete and not waste any time with the rest of the discussion.

 

[Gally]

And Sunday Ticket being on Youtube sucks...Are we moving backwards? Gimme back my octobox! I know games are rigged, at least let me watch all of them for the entertainment value

I didn't really have any issues with YTTV for the Sunday Ticket. It worked just find and was essentially the same as DTV as far as the product. What were your issues?