How good was Troy Aikman? (1 Viewer)

[TS Garp]

Was looking back at Troy's stats. I wasn't thinking he'd ever neared 30 td's or 4,000 yards, but I was surprised that he'd only gone over 20 td's in a season once and over 15 td's four times. He also had more career interceptions than I remembered (165 td'd/141 int's). Now I know it was a very different era and winning 3 super bowls and being a super bowl MVP is very meaningful. But is he really a legitimate Hall of Famer?

 

[Terpman22]

Was looking back at Troy's stats. I wasn't thinking he'd ever neared 30 td's or 4,000 yards, but I was surprised that he'd only gone over 20 td's in a season once and over 15 td's four times. He also had more career interceptions than I remembered (165 td'd/141 int's). Now I know it was a very different era and winning 3 super bowls and being a super bowl MVP is very meaningful. But is he really a legitimate Hall of Famer?

If you really wanna kick looking at HOFers that are "not legitimate" maybe in your eyes, check out Joe Namath's stats. Troy just got put in a great situation to succeed. A lot. And never get hurt too much.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

He won as much as he should have, he's ranked just about right.

 

[jerseydevil20]

Was looking back at Troy's stats. I wasn't thinking he'd ever neared 30 td's or 4,000 yards, but I was surprised that he'd only gone over 20 td's in a season once and over 15 td's four times. He also had more career interceptions than I remembered (165 td'd/141 int's). Now I know it was a very different era and winning 3 super bowls and being a super bowl MVP is very meaningful. But is he really a legitimate Hall of Famer?

His RB set the all time record for RB TDs. There's more to the story than raw stats.

 

[steveski]

Was looking back at Troy's stats. I wasn't thinking he'd ever neared 30 td's or 4,000 yards, but I was surprised that he'd only gone over 20 td's in a season once and over 15 td's four times. He also had more career interceptions than I remembered (165 td'd/141 int's). Now I know it was a very different era and winning 3 super bowls and being a super bowl MVP is very meaningful. But is he really a legitimate Hall of Famer?

His RB set the all time record for RB TDs. There's more to the story than raw stats.

I think you need to look even deeper. Emmitt Smith was overrated as well. That offensive line was just ridiculous.

 

[Area51Inhabitant]

The guy made Norv Turner look like a good OC. HOF worthy in my book.

 

[Please See Mine]

The guy made Norv Turner look like a good OC. HOF worthy in my book.

He is a good Oc, just not a good head coach.

 

[matuski]

Was looking back at Troy's stats. I wasn't thinking he'd ever neared 30 td's or 4,000 yards, but I was surprised that he'd only gone over 20 td's in a season once and over 15 td's four times. He also had more career interceptions than I remembered (165 td'd/141 int's). Now I know it was a very different era and winning 3 super bowls and being a super bowl MVP is very meaningful. But is he really a legitimate Hall of Famer?

His RB set the all time record for RB TDs. There's more to the story than raw stats.

I think you need to look even deeper. Emmitt Smith was overrated as well. That offensive line was just ridiculous.

As highly considered as they are, that O-line is egregiously underrated.

 

[Ghost Rider]

He won as much as he should have, he's ranked just about right.

Yep. He's a Hall of Famer, but almost no one would call him one of the best QBs ever just because he was on three Super Bowl-winning teams.

 

[Shutout]

Was looking back at Troy's stats. I wasn't thinking he'd ever neared 30 td's or 4,000 yards, but I was surprised that he'd only gone over 20 td's in a season once and over 15 td's four times. He also had more career interceptions than I remembered (165 td'd/141 int's). Now I know it was a very different era and winning 3 super bowls and being a super bowl MVP is very meaningful. But is he really a legitimate Hall of Famer?

His RB set the all time record for RB TDs. There's more to the story than raw stats.

I think you need to look even deeper. Emmitt Smith was overrated as well. That offensive line was just ridiculous.

Uh oh, here comes the old "If Barry sanders ran behind that line..." statement.yes, the o-line was simply absurd. They made the engine go and there is a reason why the 90's Pro-bowl always looked like the Cowboys line vs. the best from every other team (because it was).

 

[menobrown]

A HOF for sure but tough to judge in terms of how elite or how good.

I had this manager at a job I had about 15 years ago and we ran into an issue. I remember the manager telling me he was a "good times" manager, the kind of manager you want running things when everyone else is working great but not the kind of manager you want running things when you have issues. This is pretty much how I view Aikman.

I don't mean to imply he was a game manager but when everything is running smoothly he's about as good a QB as you would want. Most notable being his accuracy which was top notch. But on an offense with issues I'm just not sure how effective he would be. This is true of a lot of players but I think in a lot of places he would have been merely good but he's HOF player because of who he played with.

 

[Raider Nation]

Fantastic talent; wasn't asked to carry the offense. Anyone calling him overrated is insane.

If he got dropped into Dan Marino's exact situation in Miami, with a prolific passing offense, no running game and a less-than-steller defense, you'd be talking about Aikman as an all-time great the same way Marino is viewed. Aikman simply didn't need to air it out 40 times a game.

 

[Raider Nation]

I should add that his mechanics were perfect. Troy could throw the ball with just about anyone.

The only time he struggled was when it rained heavily.

He admitted to not being able to throw a wet ball in this brief interview.

Will the wet weather this week affect either team?

I don’t think so. I think most people say it will affect the Giants more because they throw it more. The wet field favors an offense because defensive backs are worried about falling down so the receivers have a little benefit there.

If I was playing quarterback for either team, I would bet heavy on the other team. I couldn’t throw a wet ball. I thought that was normal. I was the only guy who couldn’t throw a wet football. I would talk to quarterbacks in our meetings and ask them if they could throw a wet football. Most times they would look at me funny. “I don’t have a problem with that,’’ they’d say, and I’d feel silly.

 

[Sinn Fein]

he is Boomer Esiason with 3 Super Bowl rings.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I should add that his mechanics were perfect. Troy could throw the ball with just about anyone.

The only time he struggled was when it rained heavily.

He admitted to not being able to throw a wet ball in this brief interview.

Will the wet weather this week affect either team?

I don’t think so. I think most people say it will affect the Giants more because they throw it more. The wet field favors an offense because defensive backs are worried about falling down so the receivers have a little benefit there.

If I was playing quarterback for either team, I would bet heavy on the other team. I couldn’t throw a wet ball. I thought that was normal. I was the only guy who couldn’t throw a wet football. I would talk to quarterbacks in our meetings and ask them if they could throw a wet football. Most times they would look at me funny. “I don’t have a problem with that,’’ they’d say, and I’d feel silly.

If only they had filled that hole in the roof his home winning % would have been even better.

 

[Raider Nation]

I should add that his mechanics were perfect. Troy could throw the ball with just about anyone.

The only time he struggled was when it rained heavily.

He admitted to not being able to throw a wet ball in this brief interview.

Will the wet weather this week affect either team?

I don’t think so. I think most people say it will affect the Giants more because they throw it more. The wet field favors an offense because defensive backs are worried about falling down so the receivers have a little benefit there.

If I was playing quarterback for either team, I would bet heavy on the other team. I couldn’t throw a wet ball. I thought that was normal. I was the only guy who couldn’t throw a wet football. I would talk to quarterbacks in our meetings and ask them if they could throw a wet football. Most times they would look at me funny. “I don’t have a problem with that,’’ they’d say, and I’d feel silly.

If only they had filled that hole in the roof his home winning % would have been even better.

But then God wouldn't be able to watch his favorite team!

 

[Sinn Fein]

QBs who played in the '90s who had a better QB rating than Aikman:

Steve Young

Joe Montana

Dan Marino

Brett Favre

Trent Green

Rich Gannon

Jim Kelly

Mark Brunnell

Steve McNair

Brian Griese

Brad Johnson

Neil O'Donnell

Bernie Kosar

 

[SSOG]

Was looking back at Troy's stats. I wasn't thinking he'd ever neared 30 td's or 4,000 yards, but I was surprised that he'd only gone over 20 td's in a season once and over 15 td's four times. He also had more career interceptions than I remembered (165 td'd/141 int's). Now I know it was a very different era and winning 3 super bowls and being a super bowl MVP is very meaningful. But is he really a legitimate Hall of Famer?

His RB set the all time record for RB TDs. There's more to the story than raw stats.

I think you need to look even deeper. Emmitt Smith was overrated as well. That offensive line was just ridiculous.

No, you need to look deeper. If there was a HoF for position coaches, Hudson Houck would be in it. That line looked great because it was taught by the best. No, you need to look deeper. Jimmy Johnson was the person who put that staff together and managed them. It's easy to be a great coach when you have an even better one backing you up. No, you need to look deeper. Jimmy Johnson was just a guy who lucked into the Herschel Walker trade and three offensive HoFers. Any coach would look great with a supporting cast like that. So Irving was overrated because he had a HoF QB, Aikman was overrated because Emmitt commanded all the defensive attention, Emmitt was overrated because he played behind the best line, the line was overrated because Houck and Smith made them look better, Houck was overrated because Jimmy Johnson made everything go, Jimmy Johnson was overrated because he had Aikman and Irving, who were overrated because they had each other and Smith, who was overrated because he had a great line which was overrated because it played with three overrated HoFers and an overrated coach who overly rated his boss whose whole team was overrated because they played with awesome teammates who were overrated because they played with awesome teammates who were overrated because they played with overrated teammates who were awesome and overrated. Congratulations! We've just somehow taken three SBs and successfully explained how no one was responsible for them! Add those to the two Denver won (Shanahan was overrated because of Elway, who was overrated because of Davis, who was overrated because of Gary/Anderson/Portis, who were overrated because of Shanahan), and it's a wonder that they even bothered to hand out the Lombardi Trophy in the 90s, since no one was actually responsible for winning it.

 

[Mr. Mojo]

Overrated.

He played very well in the playoffs and super bowls, but only when he had a great cast around him.

When his surrounding talent was less, he didn't do squat. I even saw a stat that Jason Garrett had the same QB win % in the last couple years of his career.

A great QB makes the entire team around him better, Aikman didn't do that.

 

[notdarkyet]

No, you need to look deeper. If there was a HoF for position coaches, Hudson Houck would be in it. That line looked great because it was taught by the best. No, you need to look deeper. Jimmy Johnson was the person who put that staff together and managed them. It's easy to be a great coach when you have an even better one backing you up. No, you need to look deeper. Jimmy Johnson was just a guy who lucked into the Herschel Walker trade and three offensive HoFers. Any coach would look great with a supporting cast like that. So Irving was overrated because he had a HoF QB, Aikman was overrated because Emmitt commanded all the defensive attention, Emmitt was overrated because he played behind the best line, the line was overrated because Houck and Smith made them look better, Houck was overrated because Jimmy Johnson made everything go, Jimmy Johnson was overrated because he had Aikman and Irving, who were overrated because they had each other and Smith, who was overrated because he had a great line which was overrated because it played with three overrated HoFers and an overrated coach who overly rated his boss whose whole team was overrated because they played with awesome teammates who were overrated because they played with awesome teammates who were overrated because they played with overrated teammates who were awesome and overrated. Congratulations! We've just somehow taken three SBs and successfully explained how no one was responsible for them! Add those to the two Denver won (Shanahan was overrated because of Elway, who was overrated because of Davis, who was overrated because of Gary/Anderson/Portis, who were overrated because of Shanahan), and it's a wonder that they even bothered to hand out the Lombardi Trophy in the 90s, since no one was actually responsible for winning it.

 

[GregR]

You know how there are QBs today that we say, "he's good enough you can win a Super Bowl with him, he can pull out some wins when you need them... but he's not an elite QB who can carry the team all on his own"?

That's pretty much Troy Aikman. He was good, good enough to be regarded as Pro Bowler, but not one of the elite, never was an All Pro.

Does he deserve the HoF? Abso-fracking-lutely. The HoF is about the career you had, not about whether you were one of the best players ever at your position (though the latter often is enough that you'll have a career that gets you in).

Aikman isn't even in the conversation of best QB ever. But he's an NFL legend because of his team's success and the role he played in NFl history. You can't tell the history of the NFL without mentioning him in his era. Terry Bradshaw is another great example of a very good QB who had a role in NFL history that definitely makes him HoF worthy, but he's not a truly elite QB.

 

[GregR]

Was looking back at Troy's stats. I wasn't thinking he'd ever neared 30 td's or 4,000 yards, but I was surprised that he'd only gone over 20 td's in a season once and over 15 td's four times. He also had more career interceptions than I remembered (165 td'd/141 int's). Now I know it was a very different era and winning 3 super bowls and being a super bowl MVP is very meaningful. But is he really a legitimate Hall of Famer?

His RB set the all time record for RB TDs. There's more to the story than raw stats.

I think you need to look even deeper. Emmitt Smith was overrated as well. That offensive line was just ridiculous.

I'd say the only time Emmitt gets overrated is when people try to argue he's the #1 RB (or even top 3) in NFL history just because he has the rushing record.Is Emmitt an all-time elite RB? Without a doubt. That's not overrating him. He's only overrated when people try to put him at the very top of his position.

 

[johnadams]

As purely a contributor, he didn't really do as much as other QBs of his era. Even his postseason stats are fairly pedestrian, in sharp contrast to guys like Montana and Warner who seemed to step their already strong games up a notch during post season play. However, I think there's some merit to the point that he did what was asked and was very successful doing it. Ultimately, all players are a product of their environment. Sometimes, like with Montana/Walsh, you see two pieces fall into place so perfectly that the chicken/egg debate of who really made who better is just irrelevant as they made each other better. Other times, it's a discussion of what could player x have done in environment y. Aikman is the latter, though with a twist. He excelled in his environment to the extent that his team won three SBs, which in itself is enough for me for a QB. He may have put up much better stats in a West Coast offense or on a team that needed its QB to throw 30 TDs regularly. But he wasn't in that in environment. So, I think his production and impact is often overrated, but I think his skills are often underrated. Overall, I agree that he belongs in the HOF, but not wothry of mentioning as one of the top QBs of his era let alone all time.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Overrated

 

[Doctor Detroit]

He won as much as he should have, he's ranked just about right.

 

[Native]

Had the talent to throw for 4000 yds/season, just didnt need to.

He was accurate, intelligent and had all the physical tools (arm strength, etc).

 

[Bankerguy]

Yes, I'm a Cowboys fan. Full disclosure ahead of my post.

My biggest problem with the whole Aikman debate is that people look so heavily at stats. Then people try to find similar examples of Super Bowl winning QB's ala Bradshaw and Trent Dilfer and call them similar. The problem was that Aikman did what he was told and he did it very well. What do you think Troy's stats would have been if Norv wanted to throw it 45-55 times a game? It would have been insane. Instead, Dallas relied on a fantastic run game and literally kiked the crap out of teams for four quarters. They did damn well on the way to 3 Superbowls. Which if it were not for Jimmy leaving could have been 5 or 6 very easily.

IMO...Aikman is the MOST accurate passer I have ever seen in my lifetime. I'm 39 years old.

Troy is under-rated if anything and certainly not over-rated.

 

[Bankerguy]

Overrated

You are a good guy MOP but I wouldn't expect to say anything else.:shakeshead:

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Overrated

You are a good guy MOP but I wouldn't expect to say anything else.:shakeshead:

I didn't want to go deep into it, probably should have avoided the thread. There are certain QBs, some without rings that IMO still belong at the top. A lot of folks point to Montana, Brady, and Aikman and basically just say QB-multipke SB rings, best ever. And in here it only gets worse vs if I am in front of an actual media member having a drink in the boxcar discussing things. I don't want to argue with you because I also think you're a great guy, love posting back and forth especially the game day threads. I just question when people dismiss someone like Marino when IMO and based on every QB I have seen play the game, he was almost the best pure passer I have ever seen. I understand all of his records have been passed and I put others on his level, it's not like I put him on a pedestal that no one else has reached. But under 2:00, down a score, maybe no timeouts left, I dial up marino and wouldn't blink twice vs almost anyone. I have a few other QBs I put in his territory, guys like Brett Favre, Johnny Unitas, John Elway, the gunslingers and they played a brand of football that even today's QBs IMO don't measure up even though they may have higher stats. The dink and dunk, using the pas as a run instead of handing off, the gunslingers threw with a purpose to get the ball down the field, to strike and strike quickly, it just was a special era of football IMO. I never saw anyone with a quicker release, after JU I think Marino revolutionized the game, rewrote the book on the shotgun snap, and he made every WR/TE better who played around him, took guys with no athletic ability like Jim "Crash" Jensen and gave him a career. So back to Aikman...I respect what he accomplished, wished his career had not been cut short, but he had ridonkulous amounts of talent surrounding him at WR(Irvin), RB(Smith), TE(Novacek), OL(best ever for some), and a defense we could go on and on about. Is that Aikman's fault? No it is not but he did what was asked of him, he did it well, he reaped the rewards, the rings, the honors, props to him. That's about as best I can put it. Smith held out the first couple games in 1993? Dallas went 0-2 IIRC, JJ went to JJ and said "get 'er done". I think Aikman was instrumental in Dallas winning 3 Super Bowls but he had an awful lot of help along the way.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Yes, I'm a Cowboys fan. Full disclosure ahead of my post.My biggest problem with the whole Aikman debate is that people look so heavily at stats. Then people try to find similar examples of Super Bowl winning QB's ala Bradshaw and Trent Dilfer and call them similar. The problem was that Aikman did what he was told and he did it very well. What do you think Troy's stats would have been if Norv wanted to throw it 45-55 times a game? It would have been insane. Instead, Dallas relied on a fantastic run game and literally kiked the crap out of teams for four quarters. They did damn well on the way to 3 Superbowls. Which if it were not for Jimmy leaving could have been 5 or 6 very easily.IMO...Aikman is the MOST accurate passer I have ever seen in my lifetime. I'm 39 years old.Troy is under-rated if anything and certainly not over-rated.

Aikman was light years ahead of Dilfer and a better QB than Bradshaw, agree with you.

 

[Bankerguy]

Overrated

You are a good guy MOP but I wouldn't expect to say anything else.:shakeshead:

I didn't want to go deep into it, probably should have avoided the thread. There are certain QBs, some without rings that IMO still belong at the top. A lot of folks point to Montana, Brady, and Aikman and basically just say QB-multipke SB rings, best ever. And in here it only gets worse vs if I am in front of an actual media member having a drink in the boxcar discussing things. I don't want to argue with you because I also think you're a great guy, love posting back and forth especially the game day threads. I just question when people dismiss someone like Marino when IMO and based on every QB I have seen play the game, he was almost the best pure passer I have ever seen. I understand all of his records have been passed and I put others on his level, it's not like I put him on a pedestal that no one else has reached. But under 2:00, down a score, maybe no timeouts left, I dial up marino and wouldn't blink twice vs almost anyone. I have a few other QBs I put in his territory, guys like Brett Favre, Johnny Unitas, John Elway, the gunslingers and they played a brand of football that even today's QBs IMO don't measure up even though they may have higher stats. The dink and dunk, using the pas as a run instead of handing off, the gunslingers threw with a purpose to get the ball down the field, to strike and strike quickly, it just was a special era of football IMO. I never saw anyone with a quicker release, after JU I think Marino revolutionized the game, rewrote the book on the shotgun snap, and he made every WR/TE better who played around him, took guys with no athletic ability like Jim "Crash" Jensen and gave him a career. So back to Aikman...I respect what he accomplished, wished his career had not been cut short, but he had ridonkulous amounts of talent surrounding him at WR(Irvin), RB(Smith), TE(Novacek), OL(best ever for some), and a defense we could go on and on about. Is that Aikman's fault? No it is not but he did what was asked of him, he did it well, he reaped the rewards, the rings, the honors, props to him. That's about as best I can put it. Smith held out the first couple games in 1993? Dallas went 0-2 IIRC, JJ went to JJ and said "get 'er done". I think Aikman was instrumental in Dallas winning 3 Super Bowls but he had an awful lot of help along the way.

Some good counter points. Brady/Aikman is the best comparison I can see. Although I suspect most would still give Brady the nod.I wouldn't agrue too much about Marino either. I do believe that sucessful stat producing QB's get more benefit of the doubt then the "Winning/less statsy guys". I personally think Favre is one of the most over-rated of all time. I'll duck now.One last point...I truly hope that many more of the 92 and 93 Cowboys players get into the HOF, because every argument is what an amazing team they had. It's also funny and frustrating on how little love they get in best team ever polls too.

 

[jerseydevil20]

Was looking back at Troy's stats. I wasn't thinking he'd ever neared 30 td's or 4,000 yards, but I was surprised that he'd only gone over 20 td's in a season once and over 15 td's four times. He also had more career interceptions than I remembered (165 td'd/141 int's). Now I know it was a very different era and winning 3 super bowls and being a super bowl MVP is very meaningful. But is he really a legitimate Hall of Famer?

His RB set the all time record for RB TDs. There's more to the story than raw stats.

I think you need to look even deeper. Emmitt Smith was overrated as well. That offensive line was just ridiculous.

No, you need to look deeper. If there was a HoF for position coaches, Hudson Houck would be in it. That line looked great because it was taught by the best. No, you need to look deeper. Jimmy Johnson was the person who put that staff together and managed them. It's easy to be a great coach when you have an even better one backing you up. No, you need to look deeper. Jimmy Johnson was just a guy who lucked into the Herschel Walker trade and three offensive HoFers. Any coach would look great with a supporting cast like that. So Irving was overrated because he had a HoF QB, Aikman was overrated because Emmitt commanded all the defensive attention, Emmitt was overrated because he played behind the best line, the line was overrated because Houck and Smith made them look better, Houck was overrated because Jimmy Johnson made everything go, Jimmy Johnson was overrated because he had Aikman and Irving, who were overrated because they had each other and Smith, who was overrated because he had a great line which was overrated because it played with three overrated HoFers and an overrated coach who overly rated his boss whose whole team was overrated because they played with awesome teammates who were overrated because they played with awesome teammates who were overrated because they played with overrated teammates who were awesome and overrated. Congratulations! We've just somehow taken three SBs and successfully explained how no one was responsible for them! Add those to the two Denver won (Shanahan was overrated because of Elway, who was overrated because of Davis, who was overrated because of Gary/Anderson/Portis, who were overrated because of Shanahan), and it's a wonder that they even bothered to hand out the Lombardi Trophy in the 90s, since no one was actually responsible for winning it.

I couldn't agree more. Apparently every Dallas Cowboy in the early nineties was slightly above average until they became team mates and proceeded to dominate.

 

[death of the cool]

Anyone ever notice that these arguments always involve Cowboys....why they are such a lightning rod with fans I do not know.

You never hear that Joe Montana and Steve Young were overrated because they had the best WR of all-time to throw to...or maybe Jerry Rice was overrated because he was lucky enough to have two hall of fame QB's play back to back.

Aikman had one of the best rushing attacks of all time to aid him. He did what was asked and won games and multiple Superbowls. The team was usually ahead running the ball.

 

[Sweet Love]

I think at some point, you have to give the guy credit for "knowing his role". He was asked to pass very seldom, and when he did, it ALWAYS worked. We love to throw that "care taker" moniker around, but we seldom see a great care taker...why? Because, someone who is at the top of their game is forced to dial it down and they are forced to redefine themselves in a way that is very unnatural.

 

[CataclysmicThunder]

Was looking back at Troy's stats. I wasn't thinking he'd ever neared 30 td's or 4,000 yards, but I was surprised that he'd only gone over 20 td's in a season once and over 15 td's four times. He also had more career interceptions than I remembered (165 td'd/141 int's). Now I know it was a very different era and winning 3 super bowls and being a super bowl MVP is very meaningful. But is he really a legitimate Hall of Famer?

His RB set the all time record for RB TDs. There's more to the story than raw stats.

I think you need to look even deeper. Emmitt Smith was overrated as well. That offensive line was just ridiculous.

No, you need to look deeper. If there was a HoF for position coaches, Hudson Houck would be in it. That line looked great because it was taught by the best. No, you need to look deeper. Jimmy Johnson was the person who put that staff together and managed them. It's easy to be a great coach when you have an even better one backing you up. No, you need to look deeper. Jimmy Johnson was just a guy who lucked into the Herschel Walker trade and three offensive HoFers. Any coach would look great with a supporting cast like that. So Irving was overrated because he had a HoF QB, Aikman was overrated because Emmitt commanded all the defensive attention, Emmitt was overrated because he played behind the best line, the line was overrated because Houck and Smith made them look better, Houck was overrated because Jimmy Johnson made everything go, Jimmy Johnson was overrated because he had Aikman and Irving, who were overrated because they had each other and Smith, who was overrated because he had a great line which was overrated because it played with three overrated HoFers and an overrated coach who overly rated his boss whose whole team was overrated because they played with awesome teammates who were overrated because they played with awesome teammates who were overrated because they played with overrated teammates who were awesome and overrated. Congratulations! We've just somehow taken three SBs and successfully explained how no one was responsible for them! Add those to the two Denver won (Shanahan was overrated because of Elway, who was overrated because of Davis, who was overrated because of Gary/Anderson/Portis, who were overrated because of Shanahan), and it's a wonder that they even bothered to hand out the Lombardi Trophy in the 90s, since no one was actually responsible for winning it.

This was an amazing post. Hilarious. I totally agree.

 

[GregR]

Overrated

You are a good guy MOP but I wouldn't expect to say anything else.:shakeshead:

I didn't want to go deep into it, probably should have avoided the thread. There are certain QBs, some without rings that IMO still belong at the top. A lot of folks point to Montana, Brady, and Aikman and basically just say QB-multipke SB rings, best ever. And in here it only gets worse vs if I am in front of an actual media member having a drink in the boxcar discussing things. I don't want to argue with you because I also think you're a great guy, love posting back and forth especially the game day threads. I just question when people dismiss someone like Marino when IMO and based on every QB I have seen play the game, he was almost the best pure passer I have ever seen. I understand all of his records have been passed and I put others on his level, it's not like I put him on a pedestal that no one else has reached. But under 2:00, down a score, maybe no timeouts left, I dial up marino and wouldn't blink twice vs almost anyone. I have a few other QBs I put in his territory, guys like Brett Favre, Johnny Unitas, John Elway, the gunslingers and they played a brand of football that even today's QBs IMO don't measure up even though they may have higher stats. The dink and dunk, using the pas as a run instead of handing off, the gunslingers threw with a purpose to get the ball down the field, to strike and strike quickly, it just was a special era of football IMO. I never saw anyone with a quicker release, after JU I think Marino revolutionized the game, rewrote the book on the shotgun snap, and he made every WR/TE better who played around him, took guys with no athletic ability like Jim "Crash" Jensen and gave him a career. So back to Aikman...I respect what he accomplished, wished his career had not been cut short, but he had ridonkulous amounts of talent surrounding him at WR(Irvin), RB(Smith), TE(Novacek), OL(best ever for some), and a defense we could go on and on about. Is that Aikman's fault? No it is not but he did what was asked of him, he did it well, he reaped the rewards, the rings, the honors, props to him. That's about as best I can put it. Smith held out the first couple games in 1993? Dallas went 0-2 IIRC, JJ went to JJ and said "get 'er done". I think Aikman was instrumental in Dallas winning 3 Super Bowls but he had an awful lot of help along the way.

Some good counter points. Brady/Aikman is the best comparison I can see. Although I suspect most would still give Brady the nod.I wouldn't agrue too much about Marino either. I do believe that sucessful stat producing QB's get more benefit of the doubt then the "Winning/less statsy guys". I personally think Favre is one of the most over-rated of all time. I'll duck now.One last point...I truly hope that many more of the 92 and 93 Cowboys players get into the HOF, because every argument is what an amazing team they had. It's also funny and frustrating on how little love they get in best team ever polls too.

I suspect the outcome of a Brady vs Aikman poll would be nearly as lopsided as the results of "would you rather eat ice cream or crushed up glass?"ETA: I'm not saying Aikman sucks. I'm saying Brady in the mix for most people for top 2 or 3 QB of all time, and probably is nearly unanimously in the top 5. Aikman probably doesn't start to get considered by most until you're past top 5.

 

[BobbyLayne]

He was very, very accurate, had a great YPA relative to his peers, but that team ground you down. The game plan virtually every week was get Emmitt 20-25 carries.

This add much to the argument one way or the other, but I found it interesting:

Troy Aikman - 1989

Bruce Smith - 1985

John Elway - 1983

Earl Campbell - 1978

Lee Roy Selmon - 1976

Terry Bradshaw - 1970

O.J. Simpson - 1969

Ron Yary - 1968

Buck Buchanan - 1963

Paul Hornung - 1957

Chuck Bednarik - 1949

Charley Trippi - 1945

Bill Dudley - 1942

In the 93 season history of the NFL, 13 men have been drafted number one overall and made it to the Hall of Fame.

 

[Dizzy]

IMO...Aikman is the MOST accurate passer I have ever seen in my lifetime. I'm 39 years old.

Yup, me too. He was the first QB where I remember analysts describing as being able to "throw guys open" and placing the ball in windows (as in ball location on a "covered" receiver).As a Steelers fan it kills me to fess up to this stuff. I've even come to like the guy as a booth announcer.

OK, I gotta go throw up now. :X

 

[Ghost Rider]

What do you think Troy's stats would have been if Norv wanted to throw it 45-55 times a game?

That's impossible to know since they never did it on a regular basis.

 

[Manster]

Was looking back at Troy's stats. I wasn't thinking he'd ever neared 30 td's or 4,000 yards, but I was surprised that he'd only gone over 20 td's in a season once and over 15 td's four times. He also had more career interceptions than I remembered (165 td'd/141 int's). Now I know it was a very different era and winning 3 super bowls and being a super bowl MVP is very meaningful. But is he really a legitimate Hall of Famer?

Are we really bringing this up again? Aikman was the leader of the Cowboys who won 3 SB's in the 90's. He was one of the best playoff QB's of all time. Watch the '92 NFC Championship game. The guy played big on the big stage.Aikman wouldve been even better if not for the concussions. Speculation I know, but the guy took a pounding at times, and it affected him.IMO, if you are asking if Aikman should be in the HOF, you obviously didnt watch him play much. Stats dont tell the whole story.