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How to trade ? (1 Viewer)

3quinox

Footballguy
I have been posting trades I have done and trades I am considering and none of them seem to go with the consensus of the responses I am getting. What is the most accurate way I can determine what a player's trade value or worth is? Do you know of any books, strategies, tips etc.. This is only my second league playing and I need help on how to gauge the value of players.

 
you can't... no book.. everyone values players/picks differently..... while there are tiers and such and appropriate/inappropriate compensation.. there is no hardfast rule.... Trading would be easy if there was... Trading is not an easy think to do.... Get to the point where you are happy with what you give and the return investment and make the deal.. Some will pan out.. some won't.. Nature of the trading beast...

 
Agree with GT, sometimes we tend to over think things especially in FF. If a player you are adding to your team is making your team better then its a good trade. From my experience teams that trade draft pick(s) for an established player(s) tend to be more successful than not. Here's how I see it:

There are 3 types of trades:

1. Player for Player (You should know what you are getting and he should improve your team).

2. Draft Pick for Player (Again, person who is receiving the player is more than likely the winner cause he/she should know what they are getting in return (but not always). The person receiving the pick has a greater chance of failure as he/she has no clue the the pick will even make the NFL. At best they have a 50/50 chance).

3. Pick for Pick (You both are taking a chance here. This largely depends on two things: 1. Where on the board is that pick. 2. Did you do your homework and know who you are targeting.

I'm assuming Dynasty and you want to be competitive now. Fantasy Football is a game of chance and percentage so when you are trading ask yourself...Does this improve my chances of winner and how much of a percentage did I actually improve on those chances. This is assuming you know what you are doing.

:twocents:

Tex

 
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Here are some tips I sprinkled into my last year's fantasy football blog on fftoday that I turned into an article. Believe me, these ideas DO work.

“Eight Tips to Become a Great Fantasy Trader”.

1. Communication is the key. Get to know the other owners as PEOPLE, and you will have much more success in trading with them. Then start kicking around trade possibilities, even if you are not targeting any specific player. I’m an old school guy who likes to pick up the phone and get to know the other owners in my leagues. Get to know who likes to talk football, who like to text, who prefers email….then just talk football. Guys just don’t work the trade lines enough. I‘ve found that it pays sometimes to ask directly what would it take to pick up a Crabtree? Sometimes it starts an offer/counter-offer dialog that ends in a trade. And occasionally their response is less than what you were prepared to offer.

2. Be persistent. Send out offers constantly, even if only as ‘feelers‘. I try to put out at least a new trade a week in every one of my leagues. You never know what trade is just around the corner. And remember to have patience. About one out of every 8 trade offers I make end up in a trade.

3. Spreadsheet and update every roster in each of your leagues with bye weeks noted. It is vital to think about the needs of the other team and to try to help upgrade that team when trading. Spreadsheeting makes it easier to see and appreciate the other teams’ needs.

4. Constantly remind yourself that player valuation is extremely fluid and inexact. Owners place significantly different valuations on players. We are all guilty of not making an offer because we don't think the owner will be interested. Always error on the side of making that offer - you will often be surprised. Some trades only make sense if viewed through the unique prism of those owners involved in the trade. I have seen trades that appeared on the surface to make no sense for an owner, but keep in mind that each owner has their own plan for their team. By definition, “fair” trades only happen when BOTH OWNERS BELIEVE that the value of the players received has more benefit to THEIR team than the players they gave up.

5. Don't be afraid to "lose" a trade by giving up too much once in a while. Become the owner that everyone looks to first because of your reputation for trading fairly. But in particular, don't be afraid to "overpay" for a stud. I think all of us sometimes find that hard to do, but in the long run, you will probably have gotten a bargain. Remember, studs should cost a lot because they win you championships.

6. There is nothing wrong with “winning” a trade every once in a while either. When proposing a trade, it is often best (and this depends on the situation) to begin with a starting point that favors your team - you need to start somewhere with trade offers, and occasionally you may be pleasantly surprised when your original offer is accepted. However, starting with an extremely lopsided trade offer often will often ruin your credibility with your potential trading partner.

7. Conversely, don't get offended by any offer made to you. Instead, keep your cool and the lines of communication open. I used to be guilty of dismissing ridiculous trade offers with sarcasm. I still need to constantly remind myself to simply comment that “I don’t think we are close enough on value to continue this.“ Because (rarely) (a) the owner will send me a counter that is a lot closer and a deal sometimes gets done, and (b ) if I respond with sarcasm, chances are that my future opportunities to trade with that owner will be lost. It just doesn't make sense to eliminate any potential trade partner just because he made an insulting offer.

8. When it comes to trading, maintaining your integrity and taking the high road pays off. Become the owner that everyone looks to first because of your reputation for trading fairly.

 
A nice way for beginners to look at it is to just pretend you were redrafting on the day you want to pull off a trade and get an idea where the players would get drafted. Compare Average Draft Position between all the players involved in the trade and it will give you a very rough outline.

Also, when trading between different positions (QB for a RB.....WR for a TE, etc), sometimes it benefits both teams to make it a 2 for 2 trade instead of a 1 for 1. That way you are both significantly improving one position while you add depth to the position you gave up in the trade.

 
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If you are happy with a deal....then it's a good deal.

Even if it doesn't pan out for you or other owners disparage it, so long as you are satisfied call it fair value and move forward.

Way too much noise to listen to out there. Give priority to your opinion.

 
Everybody over values there own guys. And everybody wants ur guys for pennys. I ve seen like two or three decent offers in the past three years. Lots of communication and also draft picks help to even things out. Ask the trade partner to tell uu how heu ranks ur guys or for a list of the guys u got that interest him highest to lowest value. That might help. Good luck trading is sometimes very difficult.

 
This reply may be way over the top, I think I wrote it, more as a reminder to myself, then an official set in stone, rule book.

Fair warning, amateur, self-written article to follow.



The Trade Play Book (Version1) 01-28-2011

Well, first by way of introduction, some background. I’ve been playing Fantasy Football since 2003, but trades and trading didn’t really click for me until 2007.

What happened in 2007? I played in a league with a limited number of moves, and I ended up using all my roster moves by week 5 of the season, due to my hyper-active, competitive nature and constant line up tweeking. (Admittedly not great planning on my part.) How was I going to stay competitive for the remainder of the season? I had bye weeks to cover, players to upgrade, etc. I could no longer make free agent moves, but I still had 5 trades I could make. This is what forced me to sit down evaluate how to get trades done.

Honestly, do I always win my trades, no. Trading can be a lose-some, win-some, affair, sometimes you have to take a leap of faith and believe in a player (after appropriate research.) and try and buy them at the right price. So the point of the ideas below, aren’t to always win your trades, but rather provide ideas on how to get trades started or moving.

First some starting points, and some of these may be obvious, and may just be reminders, regardless, here they are.

1. Know each team in the league, not just your own. At what position are they strong, weak, have too many of a certain player? Know their bye weeks.

2. Try and a have a dialogue going with each team in the league. This makes discussing a trade so much easier when you have established rapport, rather than a cold call out of the blue.

3. Try and have trades be win-win, this helps keep things amicable, and ensures repeat business. Multiple transactions which you win some on, might be preferable to the one mega whale trade, as you may have league members resent you after it, and not want to trade with you in future.

At the end of the day, have fun, and remember sometimes it’s the trade you don’t make, which ends up being the best trade of all.

Trade ideas:

1. Noisy trade ( so many moving part it makes analysis more challenging, though typically the team getting the best player has won.) This works well if a lot of the players thrown in are fungible and easily replaceable.

2. Competitive vs non-competitive trade (older productive players should be shipped off from rebuilding teams.) And vice versa.

3.Consolidation trades, 2 for 1, 3 for 1, etc. The player getting the 1 is also receiving empty roster spots they can reload with other talent.

4. Bye week trade, more common in redraft, but it may slightly factor in other places as well.

5.Balance trade, if a team has too many of one position it will likely let them go for lesser than absolute vacuum value to bring their team back into competitive balance.

6. Hate trade, you may get a player at a discount, ie an Eagle from a Cowboy fan, Vick from an animal lover, etc.

7. Love trade, you may get someone to overpay for their favorite player or favorite team.

8. False confidence trade, try and obtain someone’s QB1, when their QB2 has put up big points perhaps leaving with false confidence they don’t really need QB1 as much, as a bump at another position.

9. Ambulance chaser trade, player has a injury of some sort depressing their value, potential opportunity.

10. Scoring system trade, LBs are gold in a 2 point per tackle start 7 defensive position league, treat them as such. While common perception may have them devalued.

11. Push-pull trade, if you’ve tried selling Tomlinson to a Greene owner, with no success, turn it around and try and acquire Greene.

12. Jail break trade, if you cannot secure your handcuff from a team, attempt to obtain the handcuff they need from another team in your league to jail break the player you want away from the team in question.

13. Play Off Performance Trade, Monday Night Performance, Sunday Night performance, a big performance while fresh in everyone’s mind and shown on prime time TV can boost the value of a player.

14. Magazine cover trade, buzz trade, anything in regards to national attention augmenting the value of your player, may help get a trade started.

15. IR Trade, risky but acquiring a player on IR, can pay dividends due to their typically lower cost to acquire.

16. Strength of schedule trade, if possible acquire a stud after a string of bad games against tougher defense, any good fantasy football player will know why the performance is depressed, still it’s enough to plant the seed of doubt in their mind.

17. 3 way trade, if common ground can be found on a 3 way exchange, this may open some possibilities.

18. Waiver wire trade, if you have a higher priority then someone who has a specific need for a player, you may wish to scoop the player up as a trade asset.

19. Contract trade, if you see a player with a really advantageous/disadvantageous contract try and use these to change the valuation of the player in question. (ie he’s a good player but at that price? I can offer player XYZ almost the same performance for ½ the cost.)

20. As a starting point, make a list of players you want to buy, players you want to sell, and see which teams have compatible needs with where you can afford to part with players.

21. Appeal to doubt, or to enthusiasm for a break out performance, or grab an opportunity another team may want before they can, but don’t insult the other person, either. They will recognize what you are doing, so don’t push it. Plant the seed sure, and say you are considering it, as a factor, but ultimately persuasion makes a trade happen, not force.

So those are just some starting point ideas on getting trades moving, but also remember.

A) Don’t annoy someone to death into a trade, treat others like you want to be treated.

B)Trade Rape: Just say no.

C)Put yourself in the shoes of the other team, would you even consider taking the trade?

D) Have a goal in mind, is it to get younger, get depth, get studs, get balance on your team? Don’t just trade to trade.

Of course those are just starting points... open to feedback.

 
the only tried and true valuation i use:

where would each of the players (assets) go in an INITIAL startup draft using this leagues rules?

so all players to me are draft picks essentially and you can goto several sites ADP lists to find info

ex: offered Matt Forte and Percy Harvin for Arian Foster and Vincent Brown

I would decline (i suspect most maybe wouldnt) but it's because on MY rankings I have VBrown higher than most and Harvin WELL below most

Foster early first

Forte early third

Harvin late 4th

VBrown 7th

so i would ask myself if this were an initial draft would I accept

an early first and a 7th to me are better than an early 3rd and late 4th

 
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Here are some tips I sprinkled into my last year's fantasy football blog on fftoday that I turned into an article. Believe me, these ideas DO work.“Eight Tips to Become a Great Fantasy Trader”.1. Communication is the key. Get to know the other owners as PEOPLE, and you will have much more success in trading with them. Then start kicking around trade possibilities, even if you are not targeting any specific player. I’m an old school guy who likes to pick up the phone and get to know the other owners in my leagues. Get to know who likes to talk football, who like to text, who prefers email….then just talk football. Guys just don’t work the trade lines enough. I‘ve found that it pays sometimes to ask directly what would it take to pick up a Crabtree? Sometimes it starts an offer/counter-offer dialog that ends in a trade. And occasionally their response is less than what you were prepared to offer. 2. Be persistent. Send out offers constantly, even if only as ‘feelers‘. I try to put out at least a new trade a week in every one of my leagues. You never know what trade is just around the corner. And remember to have patience. About one out of every 8 trade offers I make end up in a trade.3. Spreadsheet and update every roster in each of your leagues with bye weeks noted. It is vital to think about the needs of the other team and to try to help upgrade that team when trading. Spreadsheeting makes it easier to see and appreciate the other teams’ needs.4. Constantly remind yourself that player valuation is extremely fluid and inexact. Owners place significantly different valuations on players. We are all guilty of not making an offer because we don't think the owner will be interested. Always error on the side of making that offer - you will often be surprised. Some trades only make sense if viewed through the unique prism of those owners involved in the trade. I have seen trades that appeared on the surface to make no sense for an owner, but keep in mind that each owner has their own plan for their team. By definition, “fair” trades only happen when BOTH OWNERS BELIEVE that the value of the players received has more benefit to THEIR team than the players they gave up.5. Don't be afraid to "lose" a trade by giving up too much once in a while. Become the owner that everyone looks to first because of your reputation for trading fairly. But in particular, don't be afraid to "overpay" for a stud. I think all of us sometimes find that hard to do, but in the long run, you will probably have gotten a bargain. Remember, studs should cost a lot because they win you championships.6. There is nothing wrong with “winning” a trade every once in a while either. When proposing a trade, it is often best (and this depends on the situation) to begin with a starting point that favors your team - you need to start somewhere with trade offers, and occasionally you may be pleasantly surprised when your original offer is accepted. However, starting with an extremely lopsided trade offer often will often ruin your credibility with your potential trading partner. 7. Conversely, don't get offended by any offer made to you. Instead, keep your cool and the lines of communication open. I used to be guilty of dismissing ridiculous trade offers with sarcasm. I still need to constantly remind myself to simply comment that “I don’t think we are close enough on value to continue this.“ Because (rarely) (a) the owner will send me a counter that is a lot closer and a deal sometimes gets done, and (b ) if I respond with sarcasm, chances are that my future opportunities to trade with that owner will be lost. It just doesn't make sense to eliminate any potential trade partner just because he made an insulting offer.8. When it comes to trading, maintaining your integrity and taking the high road pays off. Become the owner that everyone looks to first because of your reputation for trading fairly.
Some good info here but I have to laugh thinking about the first point (although I do get the intent):"Hi Larry, my name is Joe. Welcome to the league! How are your wife and kids? I like beer nuts! Would you trade me Arian Foster? I'll throw in some beer nuts!"
 
LOL at the idea of a book on the topic, "FF Trading for Dummies". Some things you just have to work out for yourself.

Don't trade for the sake of trading. Watch and learn... be patient... don't give up on a guy too quickly. I've seen guys release/move players they drafted after the first week because their impact wasn't immediate.

Know and understand your leagues scoring system, which can greatly influence player values. Some systems favor the QB - others don't. One common mistake of beginners is to assume the QB is critical (as often is in the NFL).

Don't be a homer. Some guys overvalue players from teams they like and under-value those from teams they dislike.

 
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Communication is key. You need to know how your leaguemates value players and especially their own players to successfully craft a trade.

My general thoughts are:

1)The easiest way to trade is to find a leaguemate that fits what you need and what he needs. Say you need a RB and are stacked at WR. Go find a leaguemate that is stacked at RB but needs a WR. Then a trade like Mike Wallace for Steven Jackson can easily get done.

2) Try and sell the trade to the other guy, but don't go into too much detail. Just give a one line description on why this trade helps his team. And that's key. How does the trade help his team? If you go into too much detail, you increase the chance of the other guy not agreeing with you and rejecting the trade. Maybe the detail you're giving isn't as important to him, or maybe he would overlook it and now you're bringing it to his attention. Better to just offer the trade, give a one sentence at to how it helps his team, and leave it at that. Let the analysis of the trade rest on him. He knows you think the trade helps you....you're offering it to him. Let him decide if it helps him.

3) Never get offended if the other owner rejects your offer. It's going to happen. A lot.

4) If a trade is offered to you and you reject, try and give an explanation as to why you're rejecting the trade, or why you feel this counteroffer is fair, if you decide to counter. I hate it when an owner just responds with "no thanks" or just flat out doesn't respond. While I don't make a ton of trades in the season (usually a 1-2 trade a year guy), leaguemates respect me for always giving my thoughts. Doing this has in the past given my leaguemates the info needed to revise the deal and get it done.

5) REALLY pay attention. Timing is everything when making trades. Last year, I was struggling at the TE position, playing a TEBC with Winslow, Keller and Gresham. 6 weeks into the season, the Rob Gronkowski owner was 2-4, lost 3 in row and his team was really weak at WR and he really needed a RB to get through his starting RB bye weeks. About Week 6 Gronkowski had a couple of bad games and Hernandez was coming back from injury. I ended up negotiating a trade with this owner, giving up Julio Jones, Gresham and D Williams for Gonkowski, Ingram and Doucet. He got the WR he needed, the RB to cover his bye week and Gresham to help out at TE. From that point on, Gronkowski had the season for the ages. If I would have waited a week later, Gronkowski would have been virtually untradeable. So when you see a opening, get on the horn and get a trade done if you can.

 
A lot of good points made here. For me its simple.

1. Find your strengths and weaknesses. If you have 4 solid RBs but could only start 2 or 3 of them, there is your potential trade bait.

2. Look at other teams rosters. Find guys you'd like to have on your team. Then look at their weaknesses.

3. Evaluate the other team's position. Are they 4-0 and cruising or 1-3 and scrambling for a win? Did they just have a major injury in one of your strength areas? What is their trading history? Good things to know before sending an offer.

4. Everyone is available. Some people think that certain players are untouchable but you only know that if you ask. Never let the players name deter you from asking. Be respectful though. Don't offer 3 scrubs for Calvin Johnson and expect a response. Same goes for yourself. There is no reason to hold on to Tom Brady and Tony Romo when you're 1-5 and have drek at RB or WR. Move one of those chips to improve your team before its too late.

5. Always be open to negotiate. Don't dismiss any offer outright or reply with a sarcastic one because you feel insulted. A guy is sending an offer because he wants to deal. They just may not know what they are doing and overvalue their position.

6. Always deal from strength. Don't make a deal just to make one. Even if you're desperate and the season is dwindling away, you can still get good value. Wait for their moment of weakness (loses another game, has a key injury, desperate bye situation) and send an offer that gives immediate help.

Just my 2 cents.

 

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