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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (9 Viewers)

Lots of interesting theories out today. Here are two of them:

Would NE trade #3 for the two MIN picks (#11 and #23) and maybe a one it a two in 2025? The Vikes are rumored to wand Maye.

Harbaugh rumored to want McCarthy, so would the Chargers trade Herbert straight up for the #3 pick?

Would Pats fans go for either of those?

Funny you mentioned the Herbert deal…my son mentioned that one to me yesterday but he saw it was both their #1 and #2…I didn’t mention it because I just assumed it was just an internet rumor (and still do)…now if by some miracle it was real I could not do that deal quick enough.
 
Lots of interesting theories out today. Here are two of them:

Would NE trade #3 for the two MIN picks (#11 and #23) and maybe a one it a two in 2025? The Vikes are rumored to wand Maye.
I'm not in love with the top 3 qbs, so sure...maybe have to move around to get one of the top 2 OTs and a good WR, but sure. Brissett (and Jimmy G?) could be a bridge.
Harbaugh rumored to want McCarthy, so would the Chargers trade Herbert straight up for the #3 pick?

Herbert is not worth two first round picks?!?

People think Maye has better upside than Herbert?!?

Harbaugh has signed up for a rebuild and nobody told him?
The Chargers stuff is more or less click bait stuff, but in this scenario, they would want McCarthy and not Maye. As for Harbaugh, they had miles to go to get under the cap, and there's no way he didn't know that. I am sure there are guys on the roster that he's inheriting that he may not want to keep around or don't fit the scheme he wants to run. Not sure I would call it a full rebuild, but he may tear things down enough that it turns into one.

Not sure how much Herbert is worth in a trade (that will never happen). He's starting a new 5-year/$262M contract this year, which had $218M in guaranteed money. If the Chargers traded him, they'd have to take a $129M cap hit . . . and we all know that is never, ever going to happen.
 
Lots of interesting theories out today. Here are two of them:

Would NE trade #3 for the two MIN picks (#11 and #23) and maybe a one it a two in 2025? The Vikes are rumored to wand Maye.

Harbaugh rumored to want McCarthy, so would the Chargers trade Herbert straight up for the #3 pick?

Would Pats fans go for either of those?
I'd do Herbert for #3 in a heartbeat.

Proven QB vs. the unknown. Rookie deal be damned.
 
Tyron Smith to the Jets...Patriot Nation is gonna be really ornery after that one...BB always did a great job keeping the media at bay in a brutal market...it could appear painful at times but he was always consistent and it stopped a lot of distractions and BS...I say that because both Mayo and Wolf made unnecessary comments about "weaponizing" the offense and "burning cash"...neither of which appears to be happening...they are gonna regret those comments...hopefully they have learned a lesson.
 
Tom Curran has been beating the trade-down drum all off-seaon:


I'm starting to warm up to this plan.

I'd assume NE could net MN's 11 and 23rd picks along with next year's first rounder. At minimum. Maybe another pick if DEN and LV are also in the mix trying to trade up.

With that, NE could:

* 11: Take best available OT (if by chance one of the top 3 WRs are there, take one of them. Doubt it).
* 23: Take best available WR. Love B. Thomas or A. Mitchell in here.
* 34: Target Pennix or Nix. Maybe trade up necessary throwing in a later pick.
* Fields: His market is non-existent. Honestly, I wonder if NE's high 5th round pick and maybe a pick next year would get it done.

Then with two first round picks next year and maybe more accumulating more somehow this year trading back, etc. you have ammo if the next great QB emerges (which it seems like it does every year).
 
I honestly wonder if Herbert could be available. That team may actually be worse off now on offense than NE. Ekeler, Allen, Williams, Everett gone. And we know their D always stinks too.

Harbaugh could be looking to rip the whole thing up. And he's a big build from trenches first guy.
 
Latest Phil Perry mock draft...I would be very happy with this one:

Drafts are a crap shoot, and I am not beating up on Perry's mock. We won't know how players will turn out for years. That being said, I wouldn't love this draft if that's how it played out. People have a tendency to look at what positions were taken based on a team's positional needs and use that as a barometer for whether they like a draft or not.

I don't get great vibes about Maye. I've seen comps where the most similar QB was Trubisky. I typically go with NFL.com's Lance Zierlein for prospect analysis, and Maye's draft grade is the same as Zach Wilson's and almost exactly the same as Lance and Fields. Chris Simms has him ranked as the 6th best QB this class.I still say if the option is Maye or trade down. if they get 3 first rounders plus additional picks, that would be a no brainer.

Yes, they need OL help. Morgan is drafted at #34 here. He's rated as the 11th best OLman with a "will eventually be a starter" grade. Bortolini (52nd rated OL man) and Coleman (33rd rated OL man) are added later in this mock. Bortolini is graded as "average backup or special teamer") while Coleman falls into the "traits or talent to be an above-average backup."

Walker is selected at pick 68 and Washington at pick 103. For starters, NE has swung and missed on speedy WR multiple times before, most recently with Thompson. Washington is rated as the 12th best WR prospect with a "will eventually be an average starter" grade. Walker grades out as the 18th-rated WR with as a "good backup with the potential to develop into a starter" grade.

Sinnott stacks up as the 6th ranked TE prospect with the same with "good backip with the potential to develop into a starter" grade, Hadden slides in as the 16th ranked CB with a "will eventually be an average starter" grade.

IMO, if NE ended up with those guys for their draft haul, people within a a year or two would most likely compare those picks as a continuation of the draft misfires from the late BB era.

The way things work out for all teams, any contributions from guys selected in Rounds 4-7 are a bonus, as the huge majority of them don't amount to much. Most teams make their hay with Top 100 picks, and I wouldn't feel great if these were the guys they ended up with.
 
I honestly wonder if Herbert could be available. That team may actually be worse off now on offense than NE. Ekeler, Allen, Williams, Everett gone. And we know their D always stinks too.

Harbaugh could be looking to rip the whole thing up. And he's a big build from trenches first guy.
I looked into it yesterday. Herbert hasn't even started his $262.5M extension yet. As soon as he was traded, LAC would have to take a $129M cap hit. There's no way he's getting traded this year.
 
Latest Phil Perry mock draft...I would be very happy with this one:

Drafts are a crap shoot, and I am not beating up on Perry's mock. We won't know how players will turn out for years. That being said, I wouldn't love this draft if that's how it played out. People have a tendency to look at what positions were taken based on a team's positional needs and use that as a barometer for whether they like a draft or not.

I don't get great vibes about Maye. I've seen comps where the most similar QB was Trubisky. I typically go with NFL.com's Lance Zierlein for prospect analysis, and Maye's draft grade is the same as Zach Wilson's and almost exactly the same as Lance and Fields. Chris Simms has him ranked as the 6th best QB this class.I still say if the option is Maye or trade down. if they get 3 first rounders plus additional picks, that would be a no brainer.

Yes, they need OL help. Morgan is drafted at #34 here. He's rated as the 11th best OLman with a "will eventually be a starter" grade. Bortolini (52nd rated OL man) and Coleman (33rd rated OL man) are added later in this mock. Bortolini is graded as "average backup or special teamer") while Coleman falls into the "traits or talent to be an above-average backup."

Walker is selected at pick 68 and Washington at pick 103. For starters, NE has swung and missed on speedy WR multiple times before, most recently with Thompson. Washington is rated as the 12th best WR prospect with a "will eventually be an average starter" grade. Walker grades out as the 18th-rated WR with as a "good backup with the potential to develop into a starter" grade.

Sinnott stacks up as the 6th ranked TE prospect with the same with "good backip with the potential to develop into a starter" grade, Hadden slides in as the 16th ranked CB with a "will eventually be an average starter" grade.

IMO, if NE ended up with those guys for their draft haul, people within a a year or two would most likely compare those picks as a continuation of the draft misfires from the late BB era.

The way things work out for all teams, any contributions from guys selected in Rounds 4-7 are a bonus, as the huge majority of them don't amount to much. Most teams make their hay with Top 100 picks, and I wouldn't feel great if these were the guys they ended up with.

Love the mock...Perry is as good as any "expert" and I don't know when these experts not actually employed by an NFL team became gospel...sure you can switch out the players but he absolutely nails it with infusing talent into what this depleted roster needs.
 
Tom Curran has been beating the trade-down drum all off-seaon:


I'm starting to warm up to this plan.

I'd assume NE could net MN's 11 and 23rd picks along with next year's first rounder. At minimum. Maybe another pick if DEN and LV are also in the mix trying to trade up.

With that, NE could:

* 11: Take best available OT (if by chance one of the top 3 WRs are there, take one of them. Doubt it).
* 23: Take best available WR. Love B. Thomas or A. Mitchell in here.
* 34: Target Pennix or Nix. Maybe trade up necessary throwing in a later pick.
* Fields: His market is non-existent. Honestly, I wonder if NE's high 5th round pick and maybe a pick next year would get it done.

Then with two first round picks next year and maybe more accumulating more somehow this year trading back, etc. you have ammo if the next great QB emerges (which it seems like it does every year).

It is a definite possibility but one thing stands out to me...if you do pass on a QB and accumulate picks you then have to potentially package picks to go get a QB so what is actually accomplished? I think when you see a QB you believe in then you take them...if not you don't...but at some point this position needs to be addressed long-term or they will never get out of the mess BB left them in.
 
So….is Brissett going to start in 2024 as a “bridge” QB? Inquiring SF minds want to know.

My guess as of now...assuming the Pats draft a QB at #3 they will go with the ARich model...plan to take it slow with the rookie going into camp and probably start the bridge guy but if the rookie goes into camp and looks lights out they will start him...if not Brissett starts until the rookie is ready...whenever that is.
 
* 11: Take best available OT (if by chance one of the top 3 WRs are there, take one of them. Doubt it).
* 23: Take best available WR. Love B. Thomas or A. Mitchell in here.
* 34: Target Pennix or Nix. Maybe trade up necessary throwing in a later pick.
I'm on board with this (though there may be a risk that both Tier 1 OTs may be gone by pick 11)...with Pennix Brissett plays most of the year. With Nix, Brissett plays 4 games.
 
Oh man is it going to be tougher than usual to listen to Felger and Mazz this week. Felger was already on board with the plan to trade a third round pick for Fields.

I'd be curious to know if NE even checked in with CHI and Poles. A sixth round pick. Jeesh. That would have been worth exploring. I kept thinking as of yesterday the Pats high fifth rounder probably would have got it done.
 
Oh man is it going to be tougher than usual to listen to Felger and Mazz this week. Felger was already on board with the plan to trade a third round pick for Fields.

I'd be curious to know if NE even checked in with CHI and Poles. A sixth round pick. Jeesh. That would have been worth exploring. I kept thinking as of yesterday the Pats high fifth rounder probably would have got it done.

They could trade a 4th round pick for Mahomes and they would still find a way to complain.
 
NE's offseason has been ridiculously unspectacular to say the most. Jerking off re-signing mid guys is their big splash with ALL THAT CAP ROOM?!!!! Idiots. May have to abandon the allegiance, because Krafts are ****ing dopes, and move to another team to support.
 
I would think extending Barmore should be on their things-to-do list...he is one of the few players on the roster with legit top-shelf talent...they have a ton of cap space (and not many avenues to spend it right now) and the DT market appears to be exploding...I don't see any reason not get this done this offseason.
 
Demario Douglas worth a hold? 12 team, 20 man rosters. Not sure how or where Demario fits with this new staff.
 
Breer mentioned that teams have approached NE about the #3 pick, and so far they haven’t appeared all that interested in trading it. He said the Falcons were one of the teams, and when NE wouldn’t budge, they signed Cousins shortly thereafter. For now, CHI-WAS-NE appear to be keeping their picks.
 
Not a peep on Mike Williams. Bet he's not interested in NE.

I think this is the new normal and we need to get used to it. They might be trying to sign big names, the Ridley offer is proof of that, but why would anyone want to come here?? Unless the money is insane and we know the Pats don't do insane money:shrug: so here we are in the land of fringe free agents, keep your good players and build through the draft until you regain your organizational cache. :coffee:
 
Not a peep on Mike Williams. Bet he's not interested in NE.

I think this is the new normal and we need to get used to it. They might be trying to sign big names, the Ridley offer is proof of that, but why would anyone want to come here?? Unless the money is insane and we know the Pats don't do insane money:shrug: so here we are in the land of fringe free agents, keep your good players and build through the draft until you regain your organizational cache. :coffee:
Yes, not ideal.
 
KJ Osborne.

Not exactly a needle mover.

Not a peep on Mike Williams. Bet he's not interested in NE.
Unless he’s taking a one-year prove it deal, this is very likely his final contract in the NFL going into his age 30 season. Can’t see him possibly being interested in NE unless he’s paid well above market in guaranteed money, and the Pats aren’t doing that (nor should they). Williams is either going to try to rehab his value on a one-year deal in a more ideal offense, or he’s taking his last big payday now. The Pats absolutely need to hit on these next couple of drafts to have a prayer of competing.
 
KJ Osborne.

Not exactly a needle mover.

Not a peep on Mike Williams. Bet he's not interested in NE.
Unless he’s taking a one-year prove it deal, this is very likely his final contract in the NFL going into his age 30 season. Can’t see him possibly being interested in NE unless he’s paid well above market in guaranteed money, and the Pats aren’t doing that (nor should they). Williams is either going to try to rehab his value on a one-year deal in a more ideal offense, or he’s taking his last big payday now. The Pats absolutely need to hit on these next couple of drafts to have a prayer of competing.

100% on Williams and the drafts...if you want to get the fans onboard with this rebuild you better nail the draft because if you don't you are totally screwed...it's amazing to think as bad as things look right now it could have been even worse if they did not resign a lot of these players...that is scary.
 
Not sure if it is posted anywhere but it is being reported that the plan for Mike O is to play and keep him at RT...which makes a ton of sense when you look at their depth chart...hopefully a few of those interior guys drafted last year can develop.
 
Weird times: Looking at the Bears with envy- setting Caleb Williams up for success- Keenan Allen, DJ Moore and they'll be in a position to draft a stud LT or one of the top 3 WRs. Or keep rolling over the pick and stockpiling draft capital.

Feels like a lot of teams are in on Maye and maybe Waldman is on an island with him.

We still need Tackle, QB and two WRs. Wolf wants to build through the draft. Brissett is going to be asked to make chicken salad out of chicken scratch for a year while Maye sits- the cupboards will be bare on at least 2 out of those 4 players for another year barring a miracle. Too bad because I think the D will have an elite ceiling this year.
 
Weird times: Looking at the Bears with envy- setting Caleb Williams up for success- Keenan Allen, DJ Moore and they'll be in a position to draft a stud LT or one of the top 3 WRs. Or keep rolling over the pick and stockpiling draft capital.

Feels like a lot of teams are in on Maye and maybe Waldman is on an island with him.

We still need Tackle, QB and two WRs. Wolf wants to build through the draft. Brissett is going to be asked to make chicken salad out of chicken scratch for a year while Maye sits- the cupboards will be bare on at least 2 out of those 4 players for another year barring a miracle. Too bad because I think the D will have an elite ceiling this year.
What is Waldman's opinion of Maye?
 
Too bad because I think the D will have an elite ceiling this year.
We shall see about this part. IMO, BB was the mastermind behind the defensive game planning, scheming, development, and personnel moves. I'm not sure that automatically rubs off onto whichever coaches are still around. The secondary needs help, and a case could be made that the front 7 could use a fresh coat of paint and better depth in some spots. I don't think the defense will be terrible . . . I just think they take a step back (and could make some big mistakes on occasion).
 
Weird times: Looking at the Bears with envy- setting Caleb Williams up for success- Keenan Allen, DJ Moore and they'll be in a position to draft a stud LT or one of the top 3 WRs. Or keep rolling over the pick and stockpiling draft capital.

Feels like a lot of teams are in on Maye and maybe Waldman is on an island with him.

We still need Tackle, QB and two WRs. Wolf wants to build through the draft. Brissett is going to be asked to make chicken salad out of chicken scratch for a year while Maye sits- the cupboards will be bare on at least 2 out of those 4 players for another year barring a miracle. Too bad because I think the D will have an elite ceiling this year.
What is Waldman's opinion of Maye?
He's been down on him from the jump. I'd be surprised if he has him top 4 just off-the-cuff from listening regularly to the pods. Pretty sure he'll have Williams in a class of his own followed by Nix and Penix. From there, it's fuzzy because it's all just snippets in the pods and he tends to highlight where his grades contrast from consensus draft opinion. Waldman wears his heart on his sleeve when it comes to whether or not he's significantly above or below perceived market. Much of the QB talk this offseason has been centered around his wish that teams would just sit rookie QBs for a year or three and that Maye is among his assessed talents that needs to hold a clipboard for a while.
 
Too bad because I think the D will have an elite ceiling this year.
We shall see about this part. IMO, BB was the mastermind behind the defensive game planning, scheming, development, and personnel moves. I'm not sure that automatically rubs off onto whichever coaches are still around. The secondary needs help, and a case could be made that the front 7 could use a fresh coat of paint and better depth in some spots. I don't think the defense will be terrible . . . I just think they take a step back (and could make some big mistakes on occasion).
Gilmore is hanging out in the breeze right now.
 
Gilmore is hanging out in the breeze right now.
Unless 31 teams have no interest, I can't come up with a reason why he would sign with the Pats. He might choose to retire over coming back to NE. I supposed they could over him a boatload of money . . . but would that make any sense for a 34-year-old? He made roughly $11 million last year. I am sure he is testing the waters to see how much someone will give him. He's made $109 million over his career . . . he'd probably take a little less (than last season) to play for a SB contender.
 
KJ Osborne.

Not exactly a needle mover.

Not a peep on Mike Williams. Bet he's not interested in NE.
Unless he’s taking a one-year prove it deal, this is very likely his final contract in the NFL going into his age 30 season. Can’t see him possibly being interested in NE unless he’s paid well above market in guaranteed money, and the Pats aren’t doing that (nor should they). Williams is either going to try to rehab his value on a one-year deal in a more ideal offense, or he’s taking his last big payday now. The Pats absolutely need to hit on these next couple of drafts to have a prayer of competing.

100% on Williams and the drafts...if you want to get the fans onboard with this rebuild you better nail the draft because if you don't you are totally screwed...it's amazing to think as bad as things look right now it could have been even worse if they did not resign a lot of these players...that is scary.
And there goes Mike Williams. To the Jets.

Chargers are now competing with NE with the worst pass catchers in the league. Poor Herbert.
 
Pats should 100% be kicking the tires on trading for Aiyuk. Thats the kind of player you pay up for.
Why would SF entertain trading him?
They apparently are. Obviously could be just clickbait but who knows

Aiyuk offer
I LOVE Aiyuk. Significantly more so than Higgins.

That said, if SF rejected #17 and Z. Jones I don't know what NE could give them without digging an even deeper hole for themselves.

Would have to be #34, a future pick, and body we wouldn't want to give up.
 
Pats should 100% be kicking the tires on trading for Aiyuk. Thats the kind of player you pay up for.
Why would SF entertain trading him?
They apparently are. Obviously could be just clickbait but who knows

Aiyuk offer
I LOVE Aiyuk. Significantly more so than Higgins.

That said, if SF rejected #17 and Z. Jones I don't know what NE could give them without digging an even deeper hole for themselves.

Would have to be #34, a future pick, and body we wouldn't want to give up.
I believe the Jags were the side that said no.
 
I've read through a few pages and didn't see any comments on it; or it's own thread, but I'd really like to know actual Patriot fans take on it. Now that it's finished, what are the thoughts on the Apple TV documentary "The Dynasty". I'll hold my personal opinion for now as a non-fan, but suffice to say, it was not at all what I was expecting.
 
I've read through a few pages and didn't see any comments on it; or it's own thread, but I'd really like to know actual Patriot fans take on it. Now that it's finished, what are the thoughts on the Apple TV documentary "The Dynasty". I'll hold my personal opinion for now as a non-fan, but suffice to say, it was not at all what I was expecting.

Haven't seen it yet...I will eventually get to it but I have heard so much about it on Talk Radio I'm not as interested as I thought I would be...here is an interesting article from two of the most respected Patriots from that era:

 
Excellent article from Phil Perry:

You know who fits the prototypical profile? Mac Jones.

Not sure you read the article but the prototype involved a strong-arm, being able to throw on the run, leadership and intangibles…none of which Mac checks the box on.
 
Excellent article from Phil Perry:

You know who fits the prototypical profile? Mac Jones.

Not sure you read the article but the prototype involved a strong-arm, being able to throw on the run, leadership and intangibles…none of which Mac checks the box on.
Jones coming out of Alabama checked the physical traits, leadership, and intangible boxes in spades. He also had additional strengths in accuracy, strength of competition, and processing / understanding of the game.

He did not need to throw on the run very often, but from what I remember, he did fairly well in college when they rolled him out. He never had a rocket for an arm, but that was the one knock against him.

But he was also rumored to have been a candidate for being the #3 pick to SF. He didn’t work out in NE, but as a prospect, he was pretty close to the items on the list.
 
I've read through a few pages and didn't see any comments on it; or it's own thread, but I'd really like to know actual Patriot fans take on it. Now that it's finished, what are the thoughts on the Apple TV documentary "The Dynasty". I'll hold my personal opinion for now as a non-fan, but suffice to say, it was not at all what I was expecting.
Pats fan all my life, beginning with the Steve Grogan era, I refuse to pay for Apple TV just to watch this. I'll catch it when it makes it's way to Netflix or wherever.
... but local radio hosts saying that it paints Belichick as the villain and Bob Kraft as the "good guy" glue that held it together.
 
There's a lot of complaints in the local media about not getting FA's that are near the end of their career. Some would make the team better for a season or 2 but are any likely to be on the next squad that WINS a playoff game?
This team needs good young players and it's going to take at least 2 good drafts before they can be good enough that 30 year old fa's can help them.
 

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