Is "throwing a game" legit if it gets you into playoffs (1 Viewer)

[gianmarco]

This is a somewhat "hypothetical" situation. It hasn't happened yet but the potential is there. Assume the following. You play in a league that awards the final playoff spot based on total points. There is no chance your team (Team A) can get in based on record but would get in based on total points with the exception of one team (Team B) that has you beat. However, that team is fighting for a playoff spot based on record.

It's week 13, the final week of the season. Team B has now made it and will get into the playoffs (or you can consider can potentially get in) based on record with a win. You are playing this team in week 13. If you let them win, you will get the final playoff spot based on points. If you end up winning the game, Team B will not get in based on record and will occupy the final spot based on points and you are out of the playoffs.

Is it ok to throw a game in this situation?

 

[broncofan13000]

 

[CalBear]

Is it ok to throw a game in this situation?

Is it OK for which team to throw the game? Sounds like it would be advantageous for either team to throw it. What happens if the game is a 0-0 tie? The integrity of the league takes a hit. Play the game.

 

[gianmarco]

Just some things to consider:

--Is your goal to win on a given week or to make the playoffs?

--Are you better serving your team by winning the final week and ending your season or losing the final week and going to the playoffs?

--What would an NFL team do in a similar situation if it were possible?

 

[parasaurolophus]

perfectly acceptable to put out a weaker lineup as long as your league rules dont forbid it.

 

[gianmarco]

Is it ok to throw a game in this situation?

Is it OK for which team to throw the game? Sounds like it would be advantageous for either team to throw it. What happens if the game is a 0-0 tie? The integrity of the league takes a hit. Play the game.

Thought it was pretty obvious. I'm asking regarding YOUR team. The other team (Team B) is going to get in regardless. If they win, they get in based on wins. If they lose, they get in based on points. The ONLY difference would be seeding for Team B.Also, a lineup has to be submitted, thus it will not be 0-0. It's just a matter of putting out a "bad" lineup vs. your normal lineup if doing so directly affects your chances to make the playoffs.

 

[broncofan13000]

Is it ok to throw a game in this situation?

Is it OK for which team to throw the game? Sounds like it would be advantageous for either team to throw it. What happens if the game is a 0-0 tie? The integrity of the league takes a hit. Play the game.

Team B would get in regardless. If they win, on record, if they lose on points.

 

[fantasysharkctb]

 

[zcher]

Is it ok to throw a game in this situation?

Is it OK for which team to throw the game? Sounds like it would be advantageous for either team to throw it. What happens if the game is a 0-0 tie? The integrity of the league takes a hit. Play the game.

Team B would get in regardless. If they win, on record, if they lose on points.

that's true, team B could get in either way...but what ts is saying is, basically, if team A "let" team B win (by way of weaker line-up), then team B would get in by record, therefore the last spot would go to team A because of total points. team A can't get in if it beats team B, because even with a win, team A's record isn't good enough to make the playoffs. additionally, by beating team B, team A essentially hands the last playoff spot to team B because team B would get in by points.it's not against the rules of the league, it's strategy to get into the post season, i don't think there's anything wrong with rostering a weaker line-up. team B will get in whether they win or lose, so team A....do what you got to do to get into the playoffs. good luck.

 

[elshagon]

Another scenario is throwing a game to get a playoff seed which puts you up against an easier opponent. I say if it helps your team to lose then go ahead and do it, so long as it helps your team and you're not doing if for other motives.

 

[kaa]

NFL teams have been known to bench the starters in week 17 to avoid injury when they have a playoff spot locked up. This does not hurt the integrity of the league.

 

[utche96]

qb-tom brady, aaron rodgers, matt hasselbackrb-michael turner, chris johnson, deangelo williams, brian westbrook, ahmad bradshawwr-andre johnson, reggie wayne, desean jackson, wes welker, austin colliete-brent celek k-thynesde-ravens, saints, cardinals

Is this a joke? What league do you play in?

 

[Donsmith753]

You know that if you go out to play a weaker team you'll win. Life's just like that.

 

[Twilight]

Yes, it is legit, but if I was the commish I would be carefully monitoring it. I would not allow pickups of crappy players just to start, nor would I allow an known out player to be put in the lineup. This would be a bit of an overstep of normal Commish's power, but it would be required to make it fair to the person you are potentially booting out of the playoffs by losing.

So if you want to lose, you're going to do it by putting in Garrard over Brady, not by picking up Byron Leftwich, for example.

 

[doubletrouble]

qb-tom brady, aaron rodgers, matt hasselbackrb-michael turner, chris johnson, deangelo williams, brian westbrook, ahmad bradshawwr-andre johnson, reggie wayne, desean jackson, wes welker, austin colliete-brent celek k-thynesde-ravens, saints, cardinals

Is this a joke? What league do you play in?

it's a 8 team league....

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

If the league has rules against throwing games the answer is no... not legit. For example, language like this:

• Tanking, in any form, will not be tolerated in this league.

• If an owner is accused of not submitting its best lineup, the commissioner and conference chairmen will confer and make a ruling.

Otherwise it's a good strategy.

 

[FUBAR]

Start your healthy lesser players but not those injured and don't pick up players just for this - that will likely bite you in the end anyway.

qb-tom brady, aaron rodgers, matt hasselbackrb-michael turner, chris johnson, deangelo williams, brian westbrook, ahmad bradshawwr-andre johnson, reggie wayne, desean jackson, wes welker, austin colliete-brent celek k-thynesde-ravens, saints, cardinals

Is this a joke? What league do you play in?

is it that hard to believe in a dynasty league?

 

[tomarken]

No. You owe it to Team C, and the rest of the league, to play your best starters. Team C being the team that would have earned the final playoff spot the right way if you hadn't thrown the last game of the year.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

...There is no chance your team (Team A) can get in based on record but would get in based on total points with the exception of one team (Team B) that has you beat. However, that team is fighting for a playoff spot based on record.It's week 13, the final week of the season. Team B has now made it and will get into the playoffs (or you can consider can potentially get in) based on record with a win. You are playing this team in week 13. If you let them win, you will get the final playoff spot based on points. ....

Is the idea that: the league only allows 6 teams in the playoffs say, so A would lose, B would win; B becomes the 5th seed ahead of A and then A is now tied with Team C, whom A beats into the playoffs based on points?Yeah, ok, I guess you could do that, you want to make the playoffs, that's the goal.Could be tough to do though because I'd say don't pick up a bunch of injured players or backups who never see the field, or if you do you may never get your regular players back, or if you have a bunch of such players you may not be long for the playoffs anyway. Not real sure how someone could do this without obviously ditching.

 

[gianmarco]

No. You owe it to Team C, and the rest of the league, to play your best starters. Team C being the team that would have earned the final playoff spot the right way if you hadn't thrown the last game of the year.

Why do you owe it to Team C? Are you trying to get your own team or Team C into the playoffs?

 

[gianmarco]

Edited to add:

This is a dynasty league. Picking up a rosterful of scrubs makes no sense (and really wouldn't be feasible in a redraft anyway). Essentially rolling with your current roster, just starting the worst part of it.

I guess the bigger question is: Is throwing a weekly game to get your team INTO the playoffs in the final week really "throwing a game" or "tanking"? It seems like the opposite when you consider the full set of circumstances.

 

[KellysHeroes]

perfectly acceptable to put out a weaker lineup as long as your league rules dont forbid it.

I wouldn't make it obvious like put in players that are IR'd or leave the spot blank; but I would consider putting in players that have tougher match ups.

 

[gianmarco]

perfectly acceptable to put out a weaker lineup as long as your league rules dont forbid it.

I wouldn't make it obvious like put in players that are IR'd or leave the spot blank; but I would consider putting in players that have tougher match ups.

Why? The point isn't to try and "get away with it" or simply to be subtle? If you consider it shady, then you shouldn't be doing it. This is not meant to be shady at all. If you believe that submitting a poor lineup to get your team into the playoffs is legit, then why half-### it?

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

The more I think about this the clearer it seems...

Tanking rules are in place to protect the integrity of the league from an unscrupulous owner who might throw a game in order for his or her team to benefit.

Exactly HOW the tanking team benefits -- obtaining an improved draft position or making the playoffs -- is irrelevant. The integrity of the league is the important thing.

 

[fsufan]

Edited to add:This is a dynasty league. Picking up a rosterful of scrubs makes no sense (and really wouldn't be feasible in a redraft anyway). Essentially rolling with your current roster, just starting the worst part of it.I guess the bigger question is: Is throwing a weekly game to get your team INTO the playoffs in the final week really "throwing a game" or "tanking"? It seems like the opposite when you consider the full set of circumstances.

no since it is dynasty. this could open up a can of worms. i can see owners saying if he is throwing a game to make the playoff then why cannot I throw a game to get the #1 pick. I have very specific rules about throwing/tanking a game, it is a no no.

 

[fsufan]

The more I think about this the clearer it seems...Tanking rules are in place to protect the integrity of the league from an unscrupulous owner who might throw a game in order for his or her team to benefit.Exactly HOW the tanking team benefits -- obtaining an improved draft position or making the playoffs -- is irrelevant. The integrity of the league is the important thing.

i agree. dynasty, redraft or keeper, it is just not right

 

[Godsbrother]

You owe it to YOUR team to make the playoffs. If losing helps your team make the playoffs then you should do everything within the rules to make that happen.

 

[FUBAR]

No. You owe it to Team C, and the rest of the league, to play your best starters. Team C being the team that would have earned the final playoff spot the right way if you hadn't thrown the last game of the year.

Why do you owe it to Team C? Are you trying to get your own team or Team C into the playoffs?

Team C's owner owes it to Team C to do everything legal he can to make the playoffs. You owe your team the same so the question is simple - is starting the lineup of your choice legal or does your league have a rule against tanking a game?

 

[Wu-banger]

Before Week 1 of the NFL season and at all of our fantasy football drafts EVERYONE on this boards goal is to win the Championship in your given league.

If losing in a particular week insures this goal is still alive than that is what you HAVE to do.

You are exploiting a rule to achieve your goal, not tanking.

 

[gianmarco]

The more I think about this the clearer it seems...Tanking rules are in place to protect the integrity of the league from an unscrupulous owner who might throw a game in order for his or her team to benefit.Exactly HOW the tanking team benefits -- obtaining an improved draft position or making the playoffs -- is irrelevant. The integrity of the league is the important thing.

Disagree. Sure, tanking to get a better pick benefits your team, but there are often multiple teams vying for "worst record" and thus, it's unfair if they all start doing so or if only one starts doing so. The point of the draft order is to reward the truly worst team but you must still all try on a given week AS IF YOU WERE FIGHTING FOR A PLAYOFF SPOT.The situation above is to make the playoffs. From week 1, the goal of EVERY team is to make the playoffs and win a championship. That's the competitive spirit of the league. Going for a win in the final week while costing yourself a playoff spot actually goes against that, IMO. It's not collusive. It's not underhanded. It's the same as picking up a WW player to give yourself a win. If the only goal is to trot out the best team and get a "weekly win" while ignoring actually going for the playoffs, I think the goals are skewed to be honest.Tanking to make the playoffs vs. tanking to have a worst record and land a better pick are two completely different situations, IMO.

 

[gianmarco]

Before Week 1 of the NFL season and at all of our fantasy football drafts EVERYONE on this boards goal is to win the Championship in your given league.If losing in a particular week insures this goal is still alive than that is what you HAVE to do.You are exploiting a rule to achieve your goal, not tanking.

 

[jon_mx]

Before Week 1 of the NFL season and at all of our fantasy football drafts EVERYONE on this boards goal is to win the Championship in your given league.If losing in a particular week insures this goal is still alive than that is what you HAVE to do.You are exploiting a rule to achieve your goal, not tanking.

This is why points should only be used as a tie-breaker. Go by win-lose record, then points.

 

[FUBAR]

Edited to add:

This is a dynasty league. Picking up a rosterful of scrubs makes no sense (and really wouldn't be feasible in a redraft anyway). Essentially rolling with your current roster, just starting the worst part of it.

I guess the bigger question is: Is throwing a weekly game to get your team INTO the playoffs in the final week really "throwing a game" or "tanking"? It seems like the opposite when you consider the full set of circumstances.

no since it is dynasty. this could open up a can of worms. i can see owners saying if he is throwing a game to make the playoff then why cannot I throw a game to get the #1 pick. I have very specific rules about throwing/tanking a game, it is a no no.

fsufan and wdcrob make good points. It feels different but aside from the immediate vs. long term impact how is it different from tanking to get the higher pick? Some leagues allow owners to start whatever lineup they want, others feel the need to have rules against it.

 

[tomarken]

No. You owe it to Team C, and the rest of the league, to play your best starters. Team C being the team that would have earned the final playoff spot the right way if you hadn't thrown the last game of the year.

Why do you owe it to Team C? Are you trying to get your own team or Team C into the playoffs?

You're presumably trying to do a lot of things. One of them is to get your team into the playoffs. Another is to foster a fun and positive league that rewards the best teams and won't disintegrate because of douchebaggery like tanking games.Small picture you might increase your chances of making the playoffs this year. Big picture you piss off at least one owner and probably more by this move. If it's a big money one-year redraft with strangers then by all means tank the game, but it doesn't sound like that's the case. Play it straight up. If your team belongs in the playoffs, it will be in the playoffs. If not, it won't.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

If the goal is to win Championships and I can't do it this year, then the best thing I can do to help my team is to tank and try to get a better draft pick for next year - which will help me win a Championship.

Why is it OK to do something that benefits you THIS year that's not ok when it benefits you in FUTURE years?

There's really no difference here IMO.

 

[Lehigh98]

Would be dumb not to do what you can to get into the playoffs.

If the guy that gets knocked out because of it complains, guess he should have won more games.

If the commish or league complain about it, let them modify the rules for next year to avoid the situation.

 

[FUBAR]

Before Week 1 of the NFL season and at all of our fantasy football drafts EVERYONE on this boards goal is to win the Championship in your given league.

If losing in a particular week insures this goal is still alive than that is what you HAVE to do.

You are exploiting a rule to achieve your goal, not tanking.

Not necessarily. I took over 2 teams this off-season. In one I walked into a pretty good team that I think I made slightly better and am in the running for a championship. In the other, the team was horrible but thankfully had a few decent picks. There was no way I was going to win this league and probably not even make the playoffs, so it's a rebuilding year there. In the first league, if we had rules like yours, tanking the last game could make sense, in the 2nd league it would be in my best interest to tank the last game for a better pick. Either way, tanking would be in the best interest of my team. But I won't do it.

 

[Lehigh98]

No. You owe it to Team C, and the rest of the league, to play your best starters. Team C being the team that would have earned the final playoff spot the right way if you hadn't thrown the last game of the year.

He doesn't owe Team C anything, if Team C wanted to have a spot locked up they should have won more games.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Would be dumb not to do what you can to get into the playoffs.

If the guy that gets knocked out because of it complains, guess he should have won more games.

If the commish or league complain about it, let them modify the rules for next year to avoid the situation.

Most leagues already have clearly stated rules that tanking is prohibited. A quick review of my leagues' rules flat out prohibits throwing games. And doesn't say anything about WHY.So let the guys who want to tank try and change the rules for next year.

 

[Pnishthm]

qb-tom brady, aaron rodgers, matt hasselbackrb-michael turner, chris johnson, deangelo williams, brian westbrook, ahmad bradshawwr-andre johnson, reggie wayne, desean jackson, wes welker, austin colliete-brent celek k-thynesde-ravens, saints, cardinals

Is this a joke? What league do you play in?

it's a 8 team league....

Not sure you can get this team in a two team league

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Edited to add:This is a dynasty league. Picking up a rosterful of scrubs makes no sense (and really wouldn't be feasible in a redraft anyway). Essentially rolling with your current roster, just starting the worst part of it.I guess the bigger question is: Is throwing a weekly game to get your team INTO the playoffs in the final week really "throwing a game" or "tanking"? It seems like the opposite when you consider the full set of circumstances.

no since it is dynasty. this could open up a can of worms. i can see owners saying if he is throwing a game to make the playoff then why cannot I throw a game to get the #1 pick. I have very specific rules about throwing/tanking a game, it is a no no.

This is how I see it. How is this form of tanking different from a team that is "fighting" for the No. 1 seed tanking? In both instances its for the better for your team.Its definately a grey area though and arguable.

 

[habsfan]

For me the answer is always, "If it's not in the rules and it wouldn't bother you if someone did it to you, go for it".

 

[gianmarco]

I gotta be honest. If I'm Team C and I see them doing this, it wouldn't bother me in the least. I actually would think it's a very smart move by an owner.

Just to clarify, this could potentially come up in one of my leagues and I'm not any of the involved teams so, aside from being in the league itself, I'm about as unbiased as it can get in terms of who this affects as it has 0 bearing on my team.

 

[Resident A]

Have some integrity. Is fantasy football really worth losing friends, collapsing a league, or getting your butt kicked?

All leagues should have rules against tanking games. If yours doesn't, your commish is not competent. That is the first major issue that needs to be addressed in the rules (beyond rosters, scoring, & lineup). Even if there is no rule, anybody who even tries this deserves what comes to them.

 

[fsufan]

Have some integrity. Is fantasy football really worth losing friends, collapsing a league, or getting your butt kicked?

All leagues should have rules against tanking games. If yours doesn't, your commish is not competent. That is the first major issue that needs to be addressed in the rules (beyond rosters, scoring, & lineup). Even if there is no rule, anybody who even tries this deserves what comes to them.

definitely dynasty leagues

 

[gianmarco]

If the goal is to win Championships and I can't do it this year, then the best thing I can do to help my team is to tank and try to get a better draft pick for next year - which will help me win a Championship.Why is it OK to do something that benefits you THIS year that's not ok when it benefits you in FUTURE years?There's really no difference here IMO.

There is a difference between the 2 that I don't think you're realizing.--Tanking to get a better draft pick is DIRECTLY changing the VALUE of your team. It's adding undeserved value.--Tanking to get INTO the PLAYOFFS does not change the value of your team at all (actually decreases it because of a worse draft pick). It's benefiting your team only in terms of going for the ultimate goal of winning a championship. The value and merits of your team got you there in the 1st place are unchanged. Trades benefit your team.WW moves benefit your team.Lineup changes can benefit your team.So yes, "tanking" benefits your team if you're going for a draft pick, but THAT is what is unallowed because it's not the way it's meant to be determined. IMO, the "spirt of the rule" of "NO TANKING" is to prevent this. I don't think it's meant for a team that is actually competing and trying to make the playoffs and win. That's the point of being there to begin with.

 

[Bucco Bruce]

You absolutely tank the game. Your goal is to make the playoffs (and then the championship). Losing the game here doesn't matter for you here. You are putting the best team on the field that helps you make the playoffs.

 

[bonesman]

Tanking to make the playoffs vs. tanking to have a worst record and land a better pick are two completely different situations, IMO.

What about tanking to make the playoffs vs tanking to improve your rnd 1 match up in the playoffs, Gianmarco? Where do you stand on that matter?And IMO the best way to deter tanking in Dynasty leagues is not by rules but by formatting it so that the #1 pick is awarded though some kind of "Toilet Bowl" Tournament.

 

[LittlePhatty]

If such a scenario ever happened it would be the best argument against that type of playoff seeding (last seed going to the highest points total). No one should ever be in a spot where intentionally tanking gives them a better chance to win. HTH record with points only used as a tie prevents that.

But, if those are the rules of your league, and this situation popped up, I say "play to win" in FF means getting to the Championship, so throw the game (as long as you aren't breaking any rules set forth by the league).

 

[lord_helmet]

Don't throw games, karma WILL get you.