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Jimmy Graham, TE, New Orleans Saints (1 Viewer)

the biggest hurdle for Graham is going to be head coach Joe Vitt..

it's prudent to be somewhat bearish on Saints players this year.. remember, Payton isn't calling the shots, either from his couch at home , or at the stadium..he's out of the equation for 2012.

So it makes sense to temper enthusiasm for the 2012...

I highly doubt the 2012 offense will a mirror image of the 2011 version, even with Payton coaching I just can't see the 5k passing yards again..now enter Vitt..do you really have faith in him as a HC? Vitt will miss 6 games from suspension, so who covers the team during that period? Aaron Kromer..do you also have faith in an o-line coach with no HC experience, running the show for the first six games of 2012? talk about baptism by fire..I'm sure he'll be ( badly) outcoached in some,if not all of those games, same goes for Vitt..

I'd expect to see a significant drop-off in production from the Saints offense, not only the first 6 weeks ,but the entire 2012 season..

I'll put Graham at 80/1040/8 ( 13 ypc). and even that is being optimistic....I just don't see such a rosey picture as the 2011 season was, that was simply a perfect storm..

 
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'Tanner9919 said:
the biggest hurdle for Graham is going to be head coach Joe Vitt..
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Is there any indication that Vitt will be calling the plays? I doubt it. I read that Pete Carmichael called the plays last year while Payton was out with his leg injury. I'd also guess that's why they didn't make Carmichael interim head coach, so no one would have to pull that double-duty during such a stressful time. I can see the suspensions affecting their W/L record and their defense, but I'm not as worried about the offense. Brees is still Brees until I see proof otherwise.
 
'LittlePhatty said:
'Tanner9919 said:
the biggest hurdle for Graham is going to be head coach Joe Vitt..
Click to expand...
Is there any indication that Vitt will be calling the plays? I doubt it. I read that Pete Carmichael called the plays last year while Payton was out with his leg injury. I'd also guess that's why they didn't make Carmichael interim head coach, so no one would have to pull that double-duty during such a stressful time. I can see the suspensions affecting their W/L record and their defense, but I'm not as worried about the offense. Brees is still Brees until I see proof otherwise.
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Saints:Six games with Sean Payton calling the plays in 2011:29.5 ppg, 452 ypg, 344 passing ypg, 1.8 TOs/gameTwelve games (including playoffs) with Pete Carmichael Jr calling the plays in 2011:37.3 ppg, 488 ypg, 348 passing ypg, 1.25TOs/game (and less than 1 per game until the SF playoff game)Graham:Six games with Sean Payton calling the plays in 2011:9.8 targets, 6.5 receptions, 103.3 yards, 0.5 TD, 13.33ppg standard, 19.85ppg PPRTwelve games (including playoffs) with Pete Carmichael Jr calling the plays in 2011:9.1 targets, 6 receptions, 70.7 yards, 0.9 TD. 12.57ppg standard, 18.57ppg PPRThe biggest difference I see is YPC between the two regimes, but that might be a factor of him no longer rolling deep in single coverage as the year went on. It looks like 5 of his 6 longest plays came in the first 6 weeks.
 
'jurb26 said:
Can anyone offer some insite as to why Graham was able to post 100+ yds in 4 of the 1st 6 games and never again posted 100+ yds for the rest of the season?
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Looking at the stats from those 4 games the obvious thing is the increased YPC.Week 3 Houston: Saints are behind in the 4th quarter with no Colston and start throwing it to Graham (68 of his 100 yards come in the final quarter).Week 4 Jacksonville: One 59 yard pass to kill off game (Without that catch he is around his usual YPC). Colston returning from injury with only 1 catch 8 yards and Henderson was also out injured.Week 5 Carolina: Injured players seem to be back to normal, no idea why the high YPC continues. Week 6 Buccs: Behind and having to throw deep.For me it looks like the injury to Colston meant he was targeted a lot more, especially on deeper routes.
 
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Brees on Graham, yesterday...

Jimmy (Graham) says that you are threatening to wire the tight end room to the quarterback room. Are you really that hard on him?

“No. It’s funny because as we are watching film. There are times when we are all watching film together and there are times where we are separate with our coaches. There are times where I’ll see something and it is one of those coaching points and I immediately want to run in the tight end room and say, Hey Jimmy on this play I am looking for this or that. It’s not just him. It is everybody. I am just as hard on myself. It’s all constructive criticism. I wouldn’t even call it criticism. It’s progress. We are trying to take this thing to the next level. I feel like we’ve been really good at doing certain things and yet I still feel like we can make some hay in a lot of various and continue to get a little bit better. It might just be one thing here and there. Jimmy Graham only had one full year as a starter. The sky is the limit for this guy. The good thing about him is that he doesn’t necessarily need to be pushed or motivated. He is self-motivated. He is driven. He’s got a fire that burns inside of him. But then again, just like I am going to push myself, I’m going to push him as much as I can.”

http://www.sportsnola.com/sports/saints/saints-news/586435-saints-camp-qaa-joe-vitt-drew-brees-scott-shanle-malcolm-jenkins-jimmy-graham-nick-toon-michael-higgins-aug-1.html
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Graham's recent "minor" back issue aside...with Mathews going down and CJ2K looking like the 2011 version I think Graham is moving his way up into the 1st round.

 
'gbill2004 said:
Could we see a Calvin type season this year...20ish TDs, 1500 yards for Jimmy?
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I don't know about the yards, as he becomes the focus of defenses his YPC are likely going to settle in the 11-12 range. But I think silly numbers of catches (110+) and TDs (15-20) are likely in the next few years as he figures the game out. He's going to the the saint's #1 red zone/goal line option.
 
The back problems shouldn't be taken lightly. It was a problem that he played through last year, and it seems to still be an issue... You know defenders will be taking shots to that lower back every chance they get out there. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if it's just be a matter of time before he's out for a few games.

 
I don't see any way brees has less control over this offense than in years past, and if he's going to have more control, he will look to the guys he's more comfortable with. Graham and colston are those guys, imo, with sproles, thomas and moore being plans b, c and d. I like colston and graham to get more targets, and slightly less production per target, than I would have projected under payton.

 
Can anyone explain what is going with this guy? After a "Jimmy G is back party" in week 10 his production has dipped and I keep reading he is losing snaps and not on the field as much.

WK OPP RES REC YD Y/R TD FPT

10 vs ATL W, 31-27 7 146 20.9 2 27

11 at OAK W, 38-17 6 29 4.8 1 9

12 vs SF L, 21-31 4 33 8.3 0 3

13 at ATL L, 13-23 4 59 14.8 0 6

What gives?

 
I'd love to hear an answer to this. I traded for him and really need the JG production in the playoffs. Starting him the last few weeks has been the very height of tedium.

 
I'll wait to hear what the Saints homers have to say about Graham. I've watched the last two games closely as a Graham owner and here's what I see. Brees seems to be looking to Lance Moore on clutch 3rd downs more often than he does Graham. Moore has been running some great routes to get open and Graham has looked sluggish and not nearly as fluid as before. It almost seems like he's lost some of his athletisism out there. His catch radius looks smaller and his hops are not as instictive. In this offense, he is still very valauble and a huge target for Brees. But he just doesn't look the same athletically as he did before the HAS. I hope I am wrong and it's just a cold spell for Graham, but he doesn't look right to me. Good still, but not the first round in fantasy stud TE. I think you have to play him regardless and hope he breaks out of this slump. What else can you do?

 
i'm under the impression, that he does get open, but Brees simply doesn't look his way early in his(Brees) progression. dunno, maybe it's because of an increased amount of drops by Graham and therefore, lost trust in him..?

 
Accroding to some on Super Saints froum, he still has ankle issues and doesn't fight for yards like he used to do to fear of re-aggravating it. So he now goes down much easier. That could explain his lack of explosiveness and also lack of targets.

 
it may be also that the TE's are being asked to help with the o-line protection. the saints line has been depleted with injuries and protecting brees is paramount.

 
'saintfool said:
it may be also that the TE's are being asked to help with the o-line protection. the saints line has been depleted with injuries and protecting brees is paramount.
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Probably explains why he's been off the field a lot this year. But even when in he's not getting as many targets, so the aforementioned possibility that he's not 100% also may also be a factor.
 
'zamboni said:
'saintfool said:
it may be also that the TE's are being asked to help with the o-line protection. the saints line has been depleted with injuries and protecting brees is paramount.
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Probably explains why he's been off the field a lot this year. But even when in he's not getting as many targets, so the aforementioned possibility that he's not 100% also may also be a factor.
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he's never been much of a blocker but i think they are less likely to put him on the field for that purpose when coming back from injury.
 
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I'm in 1 league that does not use the TE spot, so all TE/WR's are lumped together.

And I'm benching Graham for Moore..

I drafted Graham and Brees figuring I had his best weapon, then I grabbed Moore.

So yah in my lineup Graham is getting benched..

 
Saints are going to implode this week vs the Giants, season will be offiically over and they can blame the long process of the bounty to make themselves feel better about it.

Suprised with how many leaders they have on that team.

Brees has a new man crush on Lance Moore and Colston. They think they can run the ball now too.

 
'lod01 said:
Accroding to some on Super Saints froum, he still has ankle issues and doesn't fight for yards like he used to do to fear of re-aggravating it. So he now goes down much easier. That could explain his lack of explosiveness and also lack of targets.
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This.He's absolutely not looked the same the past few weeks. They may not be reporting it on the injury report but it looks fairly obvious to me that he's not 100% and fighting through something. That's actually why I popped into this thread to see if someone had news to report on why he's not looked right and this does seem like a rational explanation.
 
As a jimbo owner I think we have little to be scared of... Remember brees hasn't been playing good either. Watch next game both will go off.

 
I don't know if he's playing hurt or not. I do know he averaged nearly 15 YPC against the Falcons, had little trouble getting open and was open several times in the game that I saw but Brees ignored him. I also know that the Saints have had some offensive issues the last two games and that corresponds directly with Graham no longer being heavily targeted. I have to believe that changes now. I can't see the Saints trying to make the playoffs and believing ignoring Jimmy Graham is the way for them to get there. If he is playing hurt, he still made big plays every time he caught a pass against Atlanta. Not hard to figure out that maybe throwing him the ball more might be a good idea. Like I said, he's Jimmy f'n Graham. Stop all the BS and start throwing him the ball again. Chances are good things are going to happen.

 
I don't know if Jimmy Graham is going to be of any use the rest of the season. He seems to be getting weaker and weaker. I have him on two teams and he is becoming almost useless. The Saints just aren't getting him the ball, even in garbage time.

 
'twistd said:
I don't know if Jimmy Graham is going to be of any use the rest of the season. He seems to be getting weaker and weaker. I have him on two teams and he is becoming almost useless. The Saints just aren't getting him the ball, even in garbage time.
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His talent is really, really hard to bench during the playoffs. With that said, his play on the field is approaching benchable/being able to find better on the WW.
 
'mquinnjr said:
'twistd said:
I don't know if Jimmy Graham is going to be of any use the rest of the season. He seems to be getting weaker and weaker. I have him on two teams and he is becoming almost useless. The Saints just aren't getting him the ball, even in garbage time.
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His talent is really, really hard to bench during the playoffs. With that said, his play on the field is approaching benchable/being able to find better on the WW.
Click to expand...
I know the offense is out of sync, but I never expected him to become this useless. He has tremendous talent, but he is becoming a major disappointment.
 
Even though he has had few down performances as of late, I'll take his high floor over anybody you will find on waivers at this point in the season. Would rather go down with my best guy in my lineup. How many TEs are a disappointment with 50 or 60 yards in a game?? Not many

 
'twistd said:
'mquinnjr said:
'twistd said:
I don't know if Jimmy Graham is going to be of any use the rest of the season. He seems to be getting weaker and weaker. I have him on two teams and he is becoming almost useless. The Saints just aren't getting him the ball, even in garbage time.
Click to expand...
His talent is really, really hard to bench during the playoffs. With that said, his play on the field is approaching benchable/being able to find better on the WW.
Click to expand...
I know the offense is out of sync, but I never expected him to become this useless. He has tremendous talent, but he is becoming a major disappointment.
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Yup. I love the guy but the last three weeks have been brutal. Good news is he gets the Bucs next week and you have to think he breaks out and has a big game against them.Right?
 
Just saw a PFT report claiming that Jimmy Graham has been dealing with a wrist injury for the entire season. I have been toying with the idea of starting Hernandez over him for a few weeks in a row (dynasty), but have stuck with Graham. It's tough to bench Graham with his upside, but this has me wondering if the wrist issue is playing a part in his recent trend of low performance. :popcorn:

 
'Rushmore said:
Just saw a PFT report claiming that Jimmy Graham has been dealing with a wrist injury for the entire season. I have been toying with the idea of starting Hernandez over him for a few weeks in a row (dynasty), but have stuck with Graham. It's tough to bench Graham with his upside, but this has me wondering if the wrist issue is playing a part in his recent trend of low performance. :popcorn:
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:yes: :
Saints coach Joe Vitt revealed Friday that Jimmy Graham has been playing through an "ongoing" wrist injury all season.Vitt explained that Graham, a former basketball player, has been learning to play through "nicks" during the grind of an NFL season. As for the wrist injury in particular, Pro Football Focus has charted Graham with a career-high 11 drops through 12 games. Graham had seven drops in 18 games last season. We still love his chances of a bounce-back game Sunday versus Tampa Bay.Source: Larry Holder on Twitter Dec 14 - 2:07 PMhttp://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5842/jimmy-graham
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'letter_j said:
'Rushmore said:
Just saw a PFT report claiming that Jimmy Graham has been dealing with a wrist injury for the entire season. I have been toying with the idea of starting Hernandez over him for a few weeks in a row (dynasty), but have stuck with Graham. It's tough to bench Graham with his upside, but this has me wondering if the wrist issue is playing a part in his recent trend of low performance. :popcorn:
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:yes: :
Saints coach Joe Vitt revealed Friday that Jimmy Graham has been playing through an "ongoing" wrist injury all season.Vitt explained that Graham, a former basketball player, has been learning to play through "nicks" during the grind of an NFL season. As for the wrist injury in particular, Pro Football Focus has charted Graham with a career-high 11 drops through 12 games. Graham had seven drops in 18 games last season. We still love his chances of a bounce-back game Sunday versus Tampa Bay.Source: Larry Holder on Twitter Dec 14 - 2:07 PMhttp://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/5842/jimmy-graham
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I hope the Saints get fined for not disclosing the injury. They seem to like to push the envelope with the league rules. I don't know if I would have gone another direction in redraft if I had known in preseason, but it would have been nice to know. He sure did not help me Win too many games on the team I had him on. But that team sucked in more ways than one. ..
 
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