kenbrell thompkins (1 Viewer)

[We Tigers]

I feel like I may have reached for him a bit too early. Got him @ 7.6

Cecil Shorts, Boldin, Sid Rice, Stevie Johnson, Tavon Austin and Mike Williams followed. I personally like the gamble of Thomkins over these others.

For those of us who drafted him, best of luck to us all.

So who's starting him this week? and with confidence? I am contemplating between him and Hartline as my flex. IN a PPR league, I always use WR as my flex.

That's bonkers. If you drafted him over all those guys, you basically have to start him, right? I don't think there's any question you'd be starting Shorts or Williams if you'd taken them.

 

[bmsarvis]

Im considering him as wr2 this week. Over nicks and jennings.

 

[Slapdash]

I will likely sit him in both leagues. I will start either Decker or Jordy Nelson as WR2 over him in one and it is between Shorts, Jennings, and Ryan Mathews for my flex in another.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Debating starting him over James Jones and Vincent Brown @ WR3

 

[JohnnyU]

I have to see it for real before I start him. If I miss out in week 1, so be it.

 

[Concept Coop]

I have to see it for real before I start him. If I miss out in week 1, so be it.

 

[rickyg]

He has a great matchup this week no doubt. And no jaryius bird or whatever his name is lol.

Should be ample opportunity for him to shine. I would think that given the matchups it wouldn't be crazy to start him over a James jones who is goin up against a tough sf defense. Rodgers didn't do much against sf last season either.

 

[Bri]

I think there will be more substitutions and more movement than some KT owners will like. I don't feel comfy with those that project this to be like Montana to Rice or Aikman to Irvin and you'd swear the WR lines up in the same spot on every single play.

Each of these rook WRs have somehow learned the complicated Pats O at every position. That was an odd route to take but the Pats drafted smart WRs and didn't go the crash course at one spot route. Also, despite our thoughts of Amendola always being in the slot, he has played outside quite a bit this summer.

I will be interested to see how exactly they roll forward and what type of movement and substitutions they do.

It's fun to imagine (I think it's two) with two Bills CBs hurt, the Pats open with 4 WRs because it's borderline arrogant and daring in a BB sorta way. After a few snaps, they get into their normal O and I think everyone moves around...a lot. The whole offseason lends to anyone can be anywhere on any given play. It seems that was their goal and they've prepared the players as such. Their RBs have lined up wide a bunch, Boyce has been in the backfield a little bit too. There is an air of unpredictability (which I'm sure the Pats wanted to project) that just makes the whole KT getting 80-85% of the snaps in one spot thought process seem so very far off.

I think it'll take a couple weeks, maybe three before we even have a good idea how the Pats will roll.

 

[Ditka is God]

A 4.46 is considered "average speed"? At the combine?

I've got 367 WR 40 times from the combine and the average is 4.47. So 4.46 is pretty close to exactly average.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft/combine/_/id/1

No idea why ESPN wouldn't update those after they're finalized, but if you're thinking about getting serious with this you can always go straight to the source.

Thanks for this link!

 

[PatsFanCT]

I feel like I may have reached for him a bit too early. Got him @ 7.6

Cecil Shorts, Boldin, Sid Rice, Stevie Johnson, Tavon Austin and Mike Williams followed. I personally like the gamble of Thomkins over these others.

Yes, you definitely reached for him. This is why KT is no longer a value pick, he's basically expected to perform like a WR3.

Well, reaching is relative. If he didn't think he would be on the board with his next pick, and values him higher than the others, it's not a reach at all.

 

[xenon]

I feel like I may have reached for him a bit too early. Got him @ 7.6

Cecil Shorts, Boldin, Sid Rice, Stevie Johnson, Tavon Austin and Mike Williams followed. I personally like the gamble of Thomkins over these others.

For those of us who drafted him, best of luck to us all.

So who's starting him this week? and with confidence? I am contemplating between him and Hartline as my flex. IN a PPR league, I always use WR as my flex.

That's bonkers. If you drafted him over all those guys, you basically have to start him, right? I don't think there's any question you'd be starting Shorts or Williams if you'd taken them.

Well, with MJD on my team, I was not interested in Shorts and I would much prefer Brady chucking the ball than Gabbert. I had S. Johnson last year and was at best a #3 WR which is what he will be this year (in my humble opinion). RE: Ausitn, well, in my mind, he's as much of a gamble as Thompkins. Of those listed, Mike Williams may be the one who I "should have" considered but I feel Thompkins has a way higher ceiling and Tom Brady throwing the ball. He is my 3WR/flex play should I choose to go that route or I can bench him and use a RB as a flex as I am pretty stacked there. I also have Hartline who is solid in PPR and who I believe will have a good year.....so yes, it may have been a reach, but I am comfortable with and am prepared for the worst and hoping for the best.

 

[We Tigers]

Cool justification, but the bottom line is that the guy you draft in round 7 is either a starter or your first backup. You should be expecting at least 4-5 starts out of Thompkins. You would be starting any of the guys you passed on over Hartline (except Sidney Rice, no clue why he went there). Ergo, if you always like to start a WR as flex, and Thompkins is your "flex" receiver, and the Bills secondary is weak due to injury, you really should be starting him here whether anyone believes you reached or not. Otherwise you either drafted a player you didn't believe in, or are doing some second guessing that will probably do you more harm than good.

 

[xenon]

Cool justification, but the bottom line is that the guy you draft in round 7 is either a starter or your first backup. You should be expecting at least 4-5 starts out of Thompkins. You would be starting any of the guys you passed on over Hartline (except Sidney Rice, no clue why he went there). Ergo, if you always like to start a WR as flex, and Thompkins is your "flex" receiver, and the Bills secondary is weak due to injury, you really should be starting him here whether anyone believes you reached or not. Otherwise you either drafted a player you didn't believe in, or are doing some second guessing that will probably do you more harm than good.

Definitely going to roll with Thomkins in week #1. I believe fantasy is mostly luck anyway so perhaps we revisit this mid year and year end and see if those of us who drafted him were lucky or not.

 

[unckeyherb]

I've got him benched right now. SJax and Vereen as my RBs and VJax, Dwayne Bowe and Miles Austin as my WRs, he would still probably sit behind Lacy or Steve Smiff if I decided to not start Austin.. I gotta see a couple of weeks of rapport between him and Brady for me to start using him.

 

[thecardiackid]

Took him @ the 7.09 in a 14 team league (no ppr) and heard a couple of groans at the turn of the draft. Now deciding on the flex for week one w/ KT, Mendy, and also Sudfeld (with J Graham "starting"). I think I'm going to stick w/ Mendy till we see how things develop in NE.

It seems like this NE team will take some time to figure out w/ all the new faces. I'm just having bad memories of another #85 in NE last year who sat on my bench most of the year.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

I feel like I may have reached for him a bit too early. Got him @ 7.6

Cecil Shorts, Boldin, Sid Rice, Stevie Johnson, Tavon Austin and Mike Williams followed. I personally like the gamble of Thomkins over these others.

Yes, you definitely reached for him. This is why KT is no longer a value pick, he's basically expected to perform like a WR3.

Well, reaching is relative. If he didn't think he would be on the board with his next pick, and values him higher than the others, it's not a reach at all.

7.6 = pick number 90. His ADP is 103. I don't think he'll be worth it, but for something to be a reach it must be disproportionately picked higher than ADP. Considering the broad tier the players in the 7/8/9th round fit in, this doesn't fit that situation.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I know it's scary, but this may literally be the best matchup all year for the Patriot offense. Buffalo's secondary is going to be really really bad this week. If you drafted him with the hopes of starting him at some point (and not as an injury replacement or just bye week filler), then I think it's time to grow some balls and start him this week.

I'm starting him over both Colston and Shorts.

 

[mbuehner]

I know it's scary, but this may literally be the best matchup all year for the Patriot offense. Buffalo's secondary is going to be really really bad this week. If you drafted him with the hopes of starting him at some point (and not as an injury replacement or just bye week filler), then I think it's time to grow some balls and start him this week.

I'm starting him over both Colston and Shorts.

I agree w the sentiment... but thats a little crazy.ill be watching KT closely in the red zone. I dont think he has the open field moves or 'sense' to be a homerun threat, so if he gets no love from the 20 in ill be concerned even if he catches 10 balls. Obviously applies less in ppr.

 

[G-Money]

I know it's scary, but this may literally be the best matchup all year for the Patriot offense. Buffalo's secondary is going to be really really bad this week. If you drafted him with the hopes of starting him at some point (and not as an injury replacement or just bye week filler), then I think it's time to grow some balls and start him this week.

I'm starting him over both Colston and Shorts.

I agree with your logic, but no way I start him over Colston in possibly the highest scoring game off the week.

 

[Slapdash]

I'm starting him over both Colston and Shorts.

Wow

 

[Banger]

I'm thinking he's being overvalued now. Where is he in the pecking order? I'd say behind Amendola, Vereen, and sudfeld. What's a realistic line this weekend vs the bills? Amendola (155), Vereen (75), sudfeld (55), Thompkins (53), Ridley (24), other (18). That's 380 yards. I wouldn't be shocked by that. What about when Gronk comes back?

I think now's the time to sell if you can upgrade a weakness by packaging him up. If he's your 4/5 wr and you are weak at RB, I'd take a shot at a guy that you like.

 

[SameSongNDance]

I only own him in a 10-teamer, so he's not cracking my line-up. I wouldn't start him over a bonafide WR2 like Colston in what is predicted to be a shoot out either.

 

[Phenix]

I only own him in a 10-teamer, so he's not cracking my line-up. I wouldn't start him over a bonafide WR2 like Colston in what is predicted to be a shoot out either.

Yeah, this hype is insane.

But starting him over anyone is not far fetched. KT is a starting WR on a team that has a HOF QB and throws the ball around the field that has very few passing options against a team that has a horrid secondary currently.

Whats so bad about it? While I might not play him ahead of Fitz, Garcon and Nicks, I'd be a liar if I said that I didnt think about it.

 

[montana_grizzly_bears]

I only own him in a 10-teamer, so he's not cracking my line-up. I wouldn't start him over a bonafide WR2 like Colston in what is predicted to be a shoot out either.

Yeah, this hype is insane.

But starting him over anyone is not far fetched. KT is a starting WR on a team that has a HOF QB and throws the ball around the field that has very few passing options against a team that has a horrid secondary currently.

Whats so bad about it? While I might not play him ahead of Fitz, Garcon and Nicks, I'd be a liar if I said that I didnt think about it.

I have been tossing around the idea of KT over Garcon. Both should put up the same amount of points, but Garcon is a MNF game. Would rather take a wait and see approach rather than jump in head first and leave points on the board that late.

 

[Banger]

I only own him in a 10-teamer, so he's not cracking my line-up. I wouldn't start him over a bonafide WR2 like Colston in what is predicted to be a shoot out either.

Yeah, this hype is insane.

But starting him over anyone is not far fetched. KT is a starting WR on a team that has a HOF QB and throws the ball around the field that has very few passing options against a team that has a horrid secondary currently.

Whats so bad about it? While I might not play him ahead of Fitz, Garcon and Nicks, I'd be a liar if I said that I didnt think about it.

I have been tossing around the idea of KT over Garcon. Both should put up the same amount of points, but Garcon is a MNF game. Would rather take a wait and see approach rather than jump in head first and leave points on the board that late.

C'mon now.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I'm starting him over both Colston and Shorts.

Wow

I don't think people understand just how bad Buffalo's secondary is without Gilmore and Byrd.

 

[montana_grizzly_bears]

I only own him in a 10-teamer, so he's not cracking my line-up. I wouldn't start him over a bonafide WR2 like Colston in what is predicted to be a shoot out either.

Yeah, this hype is insane.

But starting him over anyone is not far fetched. KT is a starting WR on a team that has a HOF QB and throws the ball around the field that has very few passing options against a team that has a horrid secondary currently.

Whats so bad about it? While I might not play him ahead of Fitz, Garcon and Nicks, I'd be a liar if I said that I didnt think about it.

I have been tossing around the idea of KT over Garcon. Both should put up the same amount of points, but Garcon is a MNF game. Would rather take a wait and see approach rather than jump in head first and leave points on the board that late.

C'mon now.

Think about it. Washington is winning- Shanny is gonna start running it. Pats go up, Brady still wings it.

 

[Banger]

I only own him in a 10-teamer, so he's not cracking my line-up. I wouldn't start him over a bonafide WR2 like Colston in what is predicted to be a shoot out either.

Yeah, this hype is insane.

But starting him over anyone is not far fetched. KT is a starting WR on a team that has a HOF QB and throws the ball around the field that has very few passing options against a team that has a horrid secondary currently.

Whats so bad about it? While I might not play him ahead of Fitz, Garcon and Nicks, I'd be a liar if I said that I didnt think about it.

I have been tossing around the idea of KT over Garcon. Both should put up the same amount of points, but Garcon is a MNF game. Would rather take a wait and see approach rather than jump in head first and leave points on the board that late.

C'mon now.

Think about it. Washington is winning- Shanny is gonna start running it. Pats go up, Brady still wings it.

and how are they winning? They are throwing to their #1 wr. I'd much rather pick the recipient to yards on the wash offense vs the Pats any day. If the mismatch is TE, he'll stuff Sudfeld. If they can't cover out of backfield, short passes to Ridley, Vereen. Even if they pass to wr he's got to compete with Wes Welker, I mean Amendola. Garçon will prob get 12 targets to Thomppkins 7.5. I think Garçon has more RACand breakaway ability. Garçon is one of my favorite wrs in the whole draft.

 

[Run It Up]

Ive seen a lot of names mentioned for week 1. In my five leagues:

I'm starting Kenbrell over Miles Austin, Tampa Mike, Emmanuel Sanders and Shane Vereen. (two leagues)

I'm starting Hakeem Nicks, Antonio Brown, James Jones and Pierre Garcon over him. (three leagues)

I'm starting him with confidence where I am.

 

[Bri]

A 4.46 is considered "average speed"? At the combine?

I've got 367 WR 40 times from the combine and the average is 4.47. So 4.46 is pretty close to exactly average.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft/combine/_/id/1

No idea why ESPN wouldn't update those after they're finalized, but if you're thinking about getting serious with this you can always go straight to the source.

Thanks for this link!

That's not "the source" that's Rob Rang and friends who are all wonderful but Rob doesn't host the combine, the NFL does in Indy.

 

[Banger]

just dealt Thompkins for Gordon.

 

[jurb26]

just dealt Thompkins for Gordon.

Wow, nicely done.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

That's not "the source" that's Rob Rang and friends who are all wonderful but Rob doesn't host the combine, the NFL does in Indy.

There's a great section on their site somewhere (good luck finding it though -- I couldn't track it down just now) that explains how this works, but here's the summary:

How these times are reported can lead to a great deal of confusion. The NFL Network itself hand times the runners as they run and reports these times as 'unofficial'. Then, shortly after the players complete their second run, the NFL provides a single time that is frequently referred to as the 'official' time, and that time is typically the one that becomes widely reported. However, no one knows at that point whether the purportedly 'official' time was the player's fastest or slowest or whether it's even representative of the other five times.

So, subsequent to the combine, typically a week or so later, the scouting services that run the combine report out the fastest non-outlier time for each player. In other words the player is credited with the best time of the six that's not an obvious error.

Worth nothing that in 2012 the times weren't updated until almost a year after the combine, and this year they were updated within a few days.

 

[ChainsawU]

 

[LittlePhatty]

So many targets, so little production. Brady has to have lost a little trust in him after that performance.

For those who took him as a late round lottery ticket, how long do you hold on? There are more solid options on the wire for sure.

 

[Banger]

The Vereen injury may give him some additional value over the next couple weeks until Gronk is back. Not a lot of other options.

 

[Banger]

So many targets, so little production. Brady has to have lost a little trust in him after that performance.

For those who took him as a late round lottery ticket, how long do you hold on? There are more solid options on the wire for sure.

I'd likely give it at least another week or so to see how he's used with Vereen out or if you are in a pinch may be a startable option. I guess it also depends though on who's on your wire and what your needs are.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I'd definitely wait until Gronk is back to see how that affects his ability to get open. As I mentioned above, he strikes me more as a guy who might feast on space created by elite talents than he seems like a guy who can create on his own. Things could look very different with a 6'5" HOFer barrelling down the middle of the field.

 

[ISUDESTROYERS]

Anybody know that of the 4 receptions (of 14 targets) HOW MANY WERE CATCHABLE and how many were as a result of Thompkins failure?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Anybody know that of the 4 receptions (of 14 targets) HOW MANY WERE CATCHABLE and how many were as a result of Thompkins failure?

Dude, Tom Brady was the QB.

 

[ISUDESTROYERS]

Anybody know that of the 4 receptions (of 14 targets) HOW MANY WERE CATCHABLE and how many were as a result of Thompkins failure?

Dude, Tom Brady was the QB.

Your Brady Man Crush and Koolade aside....how many were a result of Thompkins versus Brady's failure. You act like Brady never makes a mistake on his throws ...lol..

 

[parrot]

Anybody know that of the 4 receptions (of 14 targets) HOW MANY WERE CATCHABLE and how many were as a result of Thompkins failure?

Several times it appeared that Brady was trying to throw back-shoulder and Thompkins failed to break off the route.

 

[mbuehner]

Anybody know that of the 4 receptions (of 14 targets) HOW MANY WERE CATCHABLE and how many were as a result of Thompkins failure?

Dude, Tom Brady was the QB.

Your Brady Man Crush and Koolade aside....how many were a result of Thompkins versus Brady's failure. You act like Brady never makes a mistake on his throws ...lol..

Ok- this is spitballing:

-1 incompletion KT was totally mugged but didnt get the call, seriously the worst non PI call you'll see.

-He had one pretty bad drop.

-One catch in the back of the endzone where he got pushed out as he came down (announcers seemed to think he could have taken a better pattern to give himself room, not sure about that it was pretty good defense),

-another target in the endzone with brady scrambling- KT switched directions but instead of continuing to move he stopped dead and Brady tried to lead him so it went off his fingers, Brady was visably pissed.

-i recall a back shoulder pass down the sideline where again KT stopped instead of coming back to the ball and it was out of his reach short.

Ok- a lot of that is correctable. I actually am more concerned with what he did with his catches- he had a WR screen that he caught and pretty much looked for somwhere to fall, and a catch on the 2 yard line where he immediately went to the ground that should have been a touchdown if he fought for it at all. Combine that with his preseason habit of looking for the sideline and I'm really concerned KT avoiding contact.

 

[SameSongNDance]

The Vereen injury may give him some additional value over the next couple weeks until Gronk is back. Not a lot of other options.

Undoubtedly, there really aren't many other options. I'd expect a very similar number of targets next week.

 

[Banger]

The Vereen injury may give him some additional value over the next couple weeks until Gronk is back. Not a lot of other options.

Undoubtedly, there really aren't many other options. I'd expect a very similar number of targets next week.

I traded him last week but if I still had him I might start him.

 

[ISUDESTROYERS]

Anybody know that of the 4 receptions (of 14 targets) HOW MANY WERE CATCHABLE and how many were as a result of Thompkins failure?

Dude, Tom Brady was the QB.

Your Brady Man Crush and Koolade aside....how many were a result of Thompkins versus Brady's failure. You act like Brady never makes a mistake on his throws ...lol..

Ok- this is spitballing:

-1 incompletion KT was totally mugged but didnt get the call, seriously the worst non PI call you'll see.

-He had one pretty bad drop.

-One catch in the back of the endzone where he got pushed out as he came down (announcers seemed to think he could have taken a better pattern to give himself room, not sure about that it was pretty good defense),

-another target in the endzone with brady scrambling- KT switched directions but instead of continuing to move he stopped dead and Brady tried to lead him so it went off his fingers, Brady was visably pissed.

-i recall a back shoulder pass down the sideline where again KT stopped instead of coming back to the ball and it was out of his reach short.

Ok- a lot of that is correctable. I actually am more concerned with what he did with his catches- he had a WR screen that he caught and pretty much looked for somwhere to fall, and a catch on the 2 yard line where he immediately went to the ground that should have been a touchdown if he fought for it at all. Combine that with his preseason habit of looking for the sideline and I'm really concerned KT avoiding contact.

Nice and candid response. I feel your passion bro. Keep the fantasy analysis alive...and your contributions to everyone.

P.S. I here you on tendancies for the sideline. Belichek and Brady will straighten him out.

Continued success,

ISUDestroyers

 

[Bri]

-One catch in the back of the endzone where he got pushed out as he came down (announcers seemed to think he could have taken a better pattern to give himself room, not sure about that it was pretty good defense),

Brady had an odd throwing motion on that one, about jumped and threw a high lob.

All in all, if Brady reasonably puts it by the sideline, he's gotta catch it and get those feet down. I felt like Brady was "what's with you?" and frustrated with KT and their previous good rapport. Brady kept going to him which is a ton of confidence in a rook. He must do well in week two.

 

[INRIhab]

Anybody know that of the 4 receptions (of 14 targets) HOW MANY WERE CATCHABLE and how many were as a result of Thompkins failure?

Dude, Tom Brady was the QB.

Your Brady Man Crush and Koolade aside....how many were a result of Thompkins versus Brady's failure. You act like Brady never makes a mistake on his throws ...lol..

Ok- this is spitballing:

-1 incompletion KT was totally mugged but didnt get the call, seriously the worst non PI call you'll see.

-He had one pretty bad drop.

-One catch in the back of the endzone where he got pushed out as he came down (announcers seemed to think he could have taken a better pattern to give himself room, not sure about that it was pretty good defense),

-another target in the endzone with brady scrambling- KT switched directions but instead of continuing to move he stopped dead and Brady tried to lead him so it went off his fingers, Brady was visably pissed.

-i recall a back shoulder pass down the sideline where again KT stopped instead of coming back to the ball and it was out of his reach short.

Ok- a lot of that is correctable. I actually am more concerned with what he did with his catches- he had a WR screen that he caught and pretty much looked for somwhere to fall, and a catch on the 2 yard line where he immediately went to the ground that should have been a touchdown if he fought for it at all. Combine that with his preseason habit of looking for the sideline and I'm really concerned KT avoiding contact.

Thanks, this meshes with the FBG summary.

So basically, he looked like an undrafted free agent? He didn't run routes well, had a drop or two, and failed to gain separation....As much as people would like to attribute it to rookie nerves, it looks like Edelman is the right guy to own. Sure, Thompkins will get some targets next week, but given the short turnaround he won't have as much time to correct these mistakes (and gain trust) in practice.

The Jets held Doug Martin to 24-65 (<=3 yards on 18 of 24 carries). There's definitely value in the NE WR corp this week, but I'm leaning towards Edelman.

 

[Raider Nation]

He was on the field for more snaps than any WR in the league this week (91, IIRC).

As long as he's in for every play, and getting targeted a ton, I'm not worried in the least. It'll come.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Anybody know that of the 4 receptions (of 14 targets) HOW MANY WERE CATCHABLE and how many were as a result of Thompkins failure?

Dude, Tom Brady was the QB.

Your Brady Man Crush and Koolade aside....how many were a result of Thompkins versus Brady's failure. You act like Brady never makes a mistake on his throws ...lol..

Ok- this is spitballing:

-1 incompletion KT was totally mugged but didnt get the call, seriously the worst non PI call you'll see.

-He had one pretty bad drop.

-One catch in the back of the endzone where he got pushed out as he came down (announcers seemed to think he could have taken a better pattern to give himself room, not sure about that it was pretty good defense),

-another target in the endzone with brady scrambling- KT switched directions but instead of continuing to move he stopped dead and Brady tried to lead him so it went off his fingers, Brady was visably pissed.

-i recall a back shoulder pass down the sideline where again KT stopped instead of coming back to the ball and it was out of his reach short.

Ok- a lot of that is correctable. I actually am more concerned with what he did with his catches- he had a WR screen that he caught and pretty much looked for somwhere to fall, and a catch on the 2 yard line where he immediately went to the ground that should have been a touchdown if he fought for it at all. Combine that with his preseason habit of looking for the sideline and I'm really concerned KT avoiding contact.

Thanks, this meshes with the FBG summary.

So basically, he looked like an undrafted free agent? He didn't run routes well, had a drop or two, and failed to gain separation....As much as people would like to attribute it to rookie nerves, it looks like Edelman is the right guy to own. Sure, Thompkins will get some targets next week, but given the short turnaround he won't have as much time to correct these mistakes (and gain trust) in practice.

The Jets held Doug Martin to 24-65 (<=3 yards on 18 of 24 carries). There's definitely value in the NE WR corp this week, but I'm leaning towards Edelman.

Dude, it was week one. He had more fantasy points than Calvin Johnson. You giving up on him too?