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LeSean McCoy (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter GStrot
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rockaction
Footballguy
That's what convinces me that other teams were seeing something on tape when they watched. He had a horrid line and eight or nine in the box all the time last year from what I've heard.
What I think is that no one plops down three million non-refundable dollars on a one-year contract for a "savvy veteran used in passing situations"...they do it as a calculated risk based on what they've recently seen that he will emerge as a much better option than Reid currently has.
rockaction
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
If they were that worried about their RBsbdon't you think they would have done something about it long before the final wave of preseason cuts?
Signing McCoy is more likely a statement about Thompson and Hyde than anything.
Yup. We're all going to have to make that determination one way or the other. IMO Reid will not take long to ride the more talented guy...they do need to win games and their schedule is not easy.
I don't think they were "that worried." I think they saw a better option become available and pounced on it with no hesitation.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Reid said they watched Shady's preseason film (and undoubtedly his film from the last couple years) and determined that he can still play.
He also said he told McCoy that DWill is a great player, insinuating a pre-signing agreement to tolerate a limited role of some sort.
Then he went on to say that they view both backs as starting RBs. Not starting for them is how I inferred, but starting caliber.
Reid also said McCoy needs to learn the playbook before getting major playing time and that the current Chiefs offense is very different than what they ran in Philly.
All these comments considered, I see McCoy stepping into Darwin's presumed role to start the season and then casting a long shadow on DWill should the latter falter (unlikely, IMO) or get dinged (arguably more likely than your avg starting RB).
He also said he told McCoy that DWill is a great player, insinuating a pre-signing agreement to tolerate a limited role of some sort.
Then he went on to say that they view both backs as starting RBs. Not starting for them is how I inferred, but starting caliber.
Reid also said McCoy needs to learn the playbook before getting major playing time and that the current Chiefs offense is very different than what they ran in Philly.
All these comments considered, I see McCoy stepping into Darwin's presumed role to start the season and then casting a long shadow on DWill should the latter falter (unlikely, IMO) or get dinged (arguably more likely than your avg starting RB).
rockaction
Footballguy
That's what I gathered from the press conference, too. You just said it more eloquently than I could. The last sentence is exactly what I figured the role of McCoy would be by looking at the tea leaves -- DWill is still RB25 by most experts and McCoy RB40 or so.
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So my question is, if DWill is really a "great player" then why wasn't he ahead of Spencer Ware on the depth chart last year?
Chaka
Footballguy
Again, a better option to who?
It makes very little sense that the Chiefs would have such little faith in Williams that they would stick with him as their lead back all off-season, without any moves to suggest he was anything other than the lead back only to immediately kick him to the curb for McCoy.
If that were the case, they would have churned more between the end of last season and the start of this season.
McCoy will probably get plenty of work, very few people see Williams as much more than a 15 touch/game option. But this acquisition, and trade of Hyde speaks much more to Reid's opinion of Hyde than anything else.
Chaka
Footballguy
That feels about right. The bolded is particularly well stated.
Why do you think Williams is more prone to injury than an average starting RB? He's listed at 5'11", 224lbs on PFR.
zoonation
Footballguy
It’s not about being “worried”. It’s about signing a guy who upgrades you at the position. This team is trying to win a super bowl.
It will be a committee. But I’d bet McCoy is the lead guy in a couple of weeks.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
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LawFitz
Footballguy
That's a question for big Andy. I would speculate it had to do with legacy status on the roster more than anything else. Hunt and Ware had both proven themselves heading into last year, whereas DWill was the newb.
Spencer Ware is a very good player, who always played well whenever he has gooten the chance. The only issue stopping Ware from being a starting RB in the league, is he has been completely unable to stay healthy. Talent wise, he's arguably more talented than any RB on the Chiefs. He's basically midwest Kenneth Dixon, or CJ Prosise.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
McCoy has surely lost a step, as any 31 year old RB does, but I saw nothing last year or this preseason to make me think he was "done" as an NFL player. He clearly still has some juice in the open field and is still capable of making players miss. His career ypc averages in the 4.5 range - I don't know that he will get back there consistently, but I don't think he's a 3.2 ypc (last year's figure) player in a good offense. I don't play fantasy football, but nothing in the "eye test" leads me to believe that he's a scrub. The Bills OL, and offense in general, were trash last year, and he'll be playing in a much more explosive offense in KC. I would be surprised if he is not more productive this year, even if he's much less of a focal point of the offense.
The move was clearly a salary dump by the Bills. McCoy was the starter during camp, starter during the preseason, and looked fine. The Bills were always looking to dump one of the 4 RBs (McCoy, Gore, Yeldon, Singletary). Gore's contract is comparably cheap and he's looked good in preseason, so he was an obvious keeper. Singletary wasn't going anywhere. I think if the Bills were really concerned that Singletary wasn't ready to take a decent role in the offense, or if Yeldon was completely useless, McCoy would probably still be here. But those two must've shown enough to let the Bills make this decision.
McCoy has always been a class act and I wish him well with the Chiefs.
The move was clearly a salary dump by the Bills. McCoy was the starter during camp, starter during the preseason, and looked fine. The Bills were always looking to dump one of the 4 RBs (McCoy, Gore, Yeldon, Singletary). Gore's contract is comparably cheap and he's looked good in preseason, so he was an obvious keeper. Singletary wasn't going anywhere. I think if the Bills were really concerned that Singletary wasn't ready to take a decent role in the offense, or if Yeldon was completely useless, McCoy would probably still be here. But those two must've shown enough to let the Bills make this decision.
McCoy has always been a class act and I wish him well with the Chiefs.
Shutout
Footballguy
I was thinking specifically of 2013 when Charles had something like 1300 yards and 60+ receptions and 12 TDS or so despite Reid doing these weird things all year where he would go a quarter and a half or more and Charles would get like 3 touches. There were so many games that year when Charles would end up with less than 20 carries despite being crazy productiVery when he did get the ball.
At one point in that year, he basically had about ten carries and sat out the estimate of the game and Reid said something tothe effect of he forgot about him and had to do a better job getting him involved. The in the playoffs he destroyed the raiders with five TDS but only had 8 carries and wasn't even the leading rusher. It was just silly. And Reid with Shady....back in Philly....lots of under utilization.
That was a long time ago and I'm not suggesting that will be the case now but I just thought of it when iaw where shady landed.
We have seen this 100 times. Coaches aren’t gonna say “we sprinted to the phone to call shady and offer him twice as much guaranteed money than Damien because Damien is a jag and now we have a stud.” They are professional about it.
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Mario Kart
Footballguy
McCoy is going to have a similar season that Curtis Martin had when Martin was 31 in 2004. Curtis was drafted in the late 4th (47th) and turned in the best season of his career. Those Jets didn't score a whole lot but Martin had the yards. The Chiefs score a whole lot more than the Jets did and it's a different game now.
kittenmittens
Footballguy
McCoy doesn't need a lot in the tank to put up big numbers in this offense. He and Williams will probably both have very good seasons.
Shutout
Footballguy
Opportunity. Much earlier, there wasn't a great RB available. Then there was and they acted upon it quickly.
Honestly, I think it simply says this (and I don't play ff anymore so I'm not propping up one guy or tearing another down based on a roster right have or anything):. The chiefs know they can win it all. They were reminded last year how incidents a dinjuries can kill your depth and they saw an upgrade and got it. The chargers wanted him too and are a team in a similar situation. Shady signed quickly for a good amount of money.
Those 4 things say to me that teams with a lot on the line wanted him without much hesitancy at all, if any. They think he can help and they expect him to based on the move and the money. How much that translates into ff honestly probably will come down to how the chiefs season goes and injuries/ health. The timing mightt be shady is hot early or late....might help you win a free league or may start off hotandwilliams will rise and finish it. Honestly, Williams, to me, was a clear product of the system that showed that he was more than ANYONE thought he was a year ago at this time. And there's nothing wrong with that. When I put,ahead ff, Arian Foster was my Williams and it worked out very well for me while it lasted. But shady is proven, no matter how you slice it, and at least two teams with Superbowl aspirations wanted him immediately. There is a lot being said there.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
I don't know about you, but after watching that video I like Shady more. Nothing but positive things being said about Shady. And as others have said, Williams wasn't anything special to Reid until he needed him to be in the lineup. His sample size is small while Shady has proven it over many years. I think Shady gets the job once he picks up the offense.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Well sure, of course, but the relevant point is that multiple teams knew they wanted him if and when the bills chose to cut him. Meaning they think he can still play.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
I really don't know how you couldn't have been impressed with what Shady showed this preseason. Thought he looked very spry with some classic cuts of his. Maybe he's done as a bellcow back but I can't help but think he can still help an NFL team.
As soon as he was released, the guy that went through my mind was Correll Buckhalter. I think he can easily fulfill at role with KC at a minimum with a guy that's never had more that what 13 (?...going off memory) carries in a game before.
As soon as he was released, the guy that went through my mind was Correll Buckhalter. I think he can easily fulfill at role with KC at a minimum with a guy that's never had more that what 13 (?...going off memory) carries in a game before.
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Encumbrance
Footballguy
Yeah, somebody was using the benchmark that you expect Williams to get 15 or so touches per game. Surely there's room for more than that to go around.
mnmplayer
Footballguy
Reunited, and it feels sooooo good,
Reunited 'cause we understood,
There's one perfect fit
And, sugar, this one is it
We both are so excited 'cause we're reunited, hey, hey
Some things just fit well together, like peanut butter and jelly, like Andy and Westbrook or like Andy and $hady.
It's going to be a beautiful thing.
Reunited 'cause we understood,
There's one perfect fit
And, sugar, this one is it
We both are so excited 'cause we're reunited, hey, hey
Some things just fit well together, like peanut butter and jelly, like Andy and Westbrook or like Andy and $hady.
It's going to be a beautiful thing.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
PPR:
I'm just buying the situation.
From my auction experiences today, it isn't overly expensive. (Total cost of both today is around what Damien was going for prior).
If both healthy = Minimum of 1 RB2
If one is hurt = RB1 production
If one extremely high on Darwin's 2019 redraft value still (and there's folks that still are), I can see bailing on one/both of the KC guys. Barring injury, I personally don't see it for 2019.
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Encumbrance
Footballguy
I agree with this with one quibble about the last statement: I think most people were excited about Darwin in this offense as opposed to Darwin as a pure player. They saw a lottery ticket there and wanted to cash against a back they think is average (Williams). Now that McCoy is in the mix, the opportunity doesn't seem as immediate.
KingPrawn
Footballguy
I suppose the other side of that coin is if he was so popular as a free agent and if he was still confident in his abilities, then why did he jump on the first offer that came along?
P.S. I'm grabbing everywhere I can in order to protect my investment in Williams. But if I weren't a Williams owner I'd approach with extreme caution and wouldn't be throwing any top waiver priorities at him. I'd rather save my priority claim to see if something better comes along.
Gary Coal Man
Footballguy
What opportunity do you envision being better than potentially getting the starting running back on the league’s most potent offense? That opportunity is the reason why Damien Williams was being drafted so high in the first place.
KingPrawn
Footballguy
I guess that's league specific. But week 1 hasn't even been played yet and we don't know how this is going to play out. Reports are it's more likely going to be some sort of RBBC mix. Who knows what that mix is at this point?
An injury to a starting RB could change a lot. If Ingram goes down then I'd hope to have my top waiver wire priority for Hill. If Bell goes down I'd like the opportunity to consider Montgomery. I'd rather have a no. 1 RB (due to injury) on a decent offense than the possibly no. 2 RB on the top offense. And, yes, he has the potential to be the top option on the no. 1 offense in the NFL but it's also possible he's part of a RBBC mix with a 30% share at this point. But it depends on yor league and bench length and who's available. We have short benches so there are a lot of potential league-winner handcuffs out there at maybe a much cheaper price.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Andy Reid has said that he views both Williams and McCoy as the starting RBs. I would imagine they're going to split carries. They both have their knocks. Williams doesn't have a big body of work, questions about his ability to handle a full-time load. McCoy had a rough year in Buffalo last year under different circumstances than he's currently in, but also aging at a position that shows strong correlation between age and declining performance.
I share your skepticism. It's a great fit for McCoy, not a great fit for fantasy purposes. Their standalone value will likely only be strong if either fails, gets injured or suspended.
KingPrawn
Footballguy
That's my point. As a Williams owner I'll do whatever I can to acquire McCoy and I like his situation. But if I didn't own Williams I'm not sure at this point if he's worthy of a top waiver claim. Too many questions for that at this point. But I also understand in deeper leagues you may have to pounce now.
need2know
Footballguy
Or they could both be very startable. If they were playing on some avg offense this would not be a good situation but their offense is the best in the league
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The paint on this is still not dry.
According to this ADP redraft leagues drafted since Aug 25 12 teams you still have McCoy being drafted after Singletary at pick 101 or pick 9.05
However I am guessing that the majority of these drafts took place prior to the news of McCoys release and signing with KC.
This ADP is showing the upward trend of McCoy being at pick 8.06 or so now and climbing.
I think most drafts are over. So there will not be much of a ADP to guide anyone. So you have to make your own call on how valuable you think he is.
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