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Lions LB notes (1 Viewer)

V1LL

Footballguy
Detroit Free Press:

Millen said if the linebackers were healthyBoss Bailey probably would play in the middle so he could run. Bailey can play all three positions. Teddy Lehman can play in the middle or on the strong side. Alex Lewis can play on the strong side. "I think what you're going to end up seeing is some packages because there's guys who are going to play a lot," Millen said.

Boss in the middle? the dude can't tackle my old lady.

 
Detroit Free Press:

Millen said if the linebackers were healthyBoss Bailey probably would play in the middle so he could run. Bailey can play all three positions. Teddy Lehman can play in the middle or on the strong side. Alex Lewis can play on the strong side. "I think what you're going to end up seeing is some packages because there's guys who are going to play a lot," Millen said.

Boss in the middle?  the dude can't tackle  my old lady.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
While a boon to Boss's FF value, I'd think the middle is the worst spot for him.
 
pretender & bloom, I appreciate the information but, as I am currently trying to trade up to draft Sims, I would ask you sit on any more Sims news nuggets for a few more days.

You are driving the asking price of that pick up...significantly.

On a serious note and coming from a Lions fan I really like the pick. The team is in dire need of a defensive playmaker not in a 3 pt. stance and, more importantly, an identity. Sims is a pad cracker and has that slight edge to his on field personality. If Millen and Co. are attempting to build a team defense and image, then Sims is the corner stone.

Consussion(s)? Considering he was picked 9th without hesitation, I put my trust into the Lions medical staff unless they have Long Horn doctors. (For Exhibit A search for R. Wright and his undetected torn rotator cuff. Typical.)

 
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pretender & bloom, I appreciate the information but, as I am currently trying to trade up to draft Sims, I would ask you sit on any more Sims news nuggets for a few more days. 

You are driving the asking price of that pick up...significantly. 

On a serious note and coming from a Lions fan I really like the pick.  The team is in dire need of a defensive playmaker not in a 3 pt. stance and, more importantly, an identity.  Sims is a pad cracker and has that slight edge to his on field personality.  If Millen and Co. are attempting to build a team defense and image, then Sims is the corner stone. 

Consussion(s)?  Considering he was picked 9th without hesitation, I put my trust into the Lions medical staff unless they have Long Horn doctors.  (For Exhibit A search for R. Wright and his undetected torn rotator cuff.  Typical.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
here let me try and help to bring his price down a bit for you...you cant just ignore the concusions...while Sims is a player he wont do you or the lions any good if he is missing time from banging his head ala Dan Morgan...the thing i find the most intriguing is that the lions seem to have a brittle LB corp to start with(Boss, Lehman as examples)...so with that said I was shocked to see them take a player like Sims who has a concusion history...i would think that alone should actually lower his overall value...i say buyer beware on sims

[SIZE=30pt];-)[/SIZE]

 
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pretender & bloom, I appreciate the information but, as I am currently trying to trade up to draft Sims, I would ask you sit on any more Sims news nuggets for a few more days. 

You are driving the asking price of that pick up...significantly. 

On a serious note and coming from a Lions fan I really like the pick.  The team is in dire need of a defensive playmaker not in a 3 pt. stance and, more importantly, an identity.  Sims is a pad cracker and has that slight edge to his on field personality.  If Millen and Co. are attempting to build a team defense and image, then Sims is the corner stone. 

Consussion(s)?  Considering he was picked 9th without hesitation, I put my trust into the Lions medical staff unless they have Long Horn doctors.  (For Exhibit A search for R. Wright and his undetected torn rotator cuff.  Typical.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
here let me try and help to bring his price down a bit for you...you cant just ignore the concusions...while Sims is a player he wont do you or the lions any good if he is missing time from banging his head ala Dan Morgan...the thing i find the most intriguing is that the lions seem to have a brittle LB corp to start with(Boss, Lehman as examples)...so with that said I was shocked to see them take a player like Sims who has a concusion history...i would think that alone should actually lower his overall value...i say buyer beware on sims

[SIZE=30pt];-)[/SIZE]

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Good counterpoint. I agree on Bailey and Lehman.

My understanding is that he, Sims, had a concussion or two instances but it was not a Lindross, Morgan or Aikman type situation where he had multiple knocks over a period of time. More importantly, he missed no playing time. From the FSU homepage...

Standout linebacker who started 24 consecutive games for Florida State, including all 13 in 2005...has played in 38 consecutive games (every game of his career)...

Can someone clarify? Everything I am finding on the web that would have defining critical medical information in a draft profile is a pay site.

Keg, not being argumentative or nit picking so, please, do not think that. It is the opposite. I am trying to uncover the facts surrounding the concussion problem so the loyal IDP community can reach a better conclusion.

If he missed no playing time, then I feel this particular medical issue might be something that was just a tad overblown and propogated by a Kiper type.

FSU fan...Sims fan...resident IDP forum experts...please trust/verify

 
pretender & bloom, I appreciate the information but, as I am currently trying to trade up to draft Sims, I would ask you sit on any more Sims news nuggets for a few more days. 

You are driving the asking price of that pick up...significantly. 

On a serious note and coming from a Lions fan I really like the pick.  The team is in dire need of a defensive playmaker not in a 3 pt. stance and, more importantly, an identity.  Sims is a pad cracker and has that slight edge to his on field personality.  If Millen and Co. are attempting to build a team defense and image, then Sims is the corner stone. 

Consussion(s)?  Considering he was picked 9th without hesitation, I put my trust into the Lions medical staff unless they have Long Horn doctors.  (For Exhibit A search for R. Wright and his undetected torn rotator cuff.  Typical.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
here let me try and help to bring his price down a bit for you...you cant just ignore the concusions...while Sims is a player he wont do you or the lions any good if he is missing time from banging his head ala Dan Morgan...the thing i find the most intriguing is that the lions seem to have a brittle LB corp to start with(Boss, Lehman as examples)...so with that said I was shocked to see them take a player like Sims who has a concusion history...i would think that alone should actually lower his overall value...i say buyer beware on sims

[SIZE=30pt];-)[/SIZE]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Good counterpoint. I agree on Bailey and Lehman.

My understanding is that he, Sims, had a concussion or two instances but it was not a Lindross, Morgan or Aikman type situation where he had multiple knocks over a period of time. More importantly, he missed no playing time. From the FSU homepage...

Standout linebacker who started 24 consecutive games for Florida State, including all 13 in 2005...has played in 38 consecutive games (every game of his career)...

Can someone clarify? Everything I am finding on the web that would have defining critical medical information in a draft profile is a pay site.

Keg, not being argumentative or nit picking so, please, do not think that. It is the opposite. I am trying to uncover the facts surrounding the concussion problem so the loyal IDP community can reach a better conclusion.

If he missed no playing time, then I feel this particular medical issue might be something that was just a tad overblown and propogated by a Kiper type.

FSU fan...Sims fan...resident IDP forum experts...please trust/verify

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
PM for you
 
I recall an interview with him during draft day. If I recall correctly, he very calmly and candidly stated that he has had about 4-5 concussions. But, only 1 of them was of the "I don't know where I am" variety. I am paraphrasing as I do not exactly recall how he said it.

Another reason to discount Simms, look who drafted him...the Lions (since we are thinking of reasons to discount him). Now, look back at all the lions recent draft picks. Many of them have contributed next to nothing thus far (Bailey, Lehman, Rogers, Williams, Harrington, Redding, Cody, etc., etc.). I remember thinking Bailey and Lehman were great picks when the Lions took them, but, predominately due to injury (one would hope), still waiting...

 
Many of them have contributed next to nothing thus far (Bailey, Lehman, Rogers, Williams, Harrington, Redding, Cody, etc., etc.).
:confused: Roy Williams has averaged more yards and TD's per game than ALL the WR's from the monster '04 class (Reggie Williams, Evans, Mi. Clayton, Jenkins, Woods, D Henderson, Watts and Colbert)...

...with the exception of all-world Fitzgerald.

 
A quick primer on concussions and then an attempt to make sense of the Sims situation.

The American Academy of Neurology grades concussions as follows:

Grade 1

Transient confusion with no loss of consciousness. Less than 15 minutes for complete resolution of symptoms. There is all kinds of gray area here. Technically, seeing stars or having your bell rung for a couple of seconds can properly be called a concussion. How significant such an injury is very difficult to determine. If an athlete is known to have suffered a Grade 1 concussion (it is likely that very many go unreported), standard of care allows return to play once all symptoms of altered mental status resolve. These symptoms may include headache, dizziness, nausea, and confusion among others.

Grade 2

Transient confusion with no loss of consciousness. More than 15 minutes until complete resolution of symptoms. Standard of care is removal from play until the player has been free of symptoms for one week.

Grade 3

Loss of consciousness no matter how brief (seconds or more). Standard of care is removal from play until player has been free of symptoms for one week (brief LOC) or minimum two weeks (longer LOC).

Multiple Grade 1 concussions in a short period of time require one week symptom free rest. Multiple Grade 2 concussions require two weeks symptom free rest. Multiple Grade 3 concussion require minimum one month symptom free rest.

Standard of care has become more conservative in recent years with improved recognition and understanding of second impact syndrome. Sustaining another concussion on the heels of the first, even mild concussion, can have devastating consequences, including death.

It's difficult to get any definitive idea of the severity of Sims' concussions via Google search, but both Sims and Bobby Bowden have been quoted has saying that the majority of concussions were "minor" or "not bad". Suggests that Sims had multiple Grade 1 concussions. Sims says he suffered five total concussions. I can only find three by searches. Two within one week during preseason practices of October 2004 that kept him out of one week of practice. And what looks to be a more significant Grade 1 last season (his most recent) during the UVA game, which nearly kept him out of the following week's game vs Duke.

Teams (HS-NFL) just will not take chances with concussions any more. You can be pretty certain that a big time program like FSU and any NFL team is going to have well respected trainers and neurosurgeons on call to clear their athletes. You can also be fairly certain that Sims has had at least one MRI in the past 6 months to reassure NFL teams considering drafting him.

So it appears that Sims has probably not had a major concussion. That said, people who have sustained one concussion are three times as likely to have a second than someone who has never had a concussion. And there is no question that repeated concussions, no matter how mild, will increase the risk of post-concussion syndrome symptoms. Not only does that increase the length of time an athlete will be allowed to return to play, but it significantly impacts long term quality of life if the symptoms do not completely resolve.

Sims is a concussion risk. He may never have another. He may have one in training camp that requires him to sit for a significant length of time. He has apparently changed his tackling style and made equipment modifications to protect himself but it remains to be seen if he will stay healthy.

I have Sims as my #3 LB partly due to concussion history, partly due to his other collegiate injuries, partly due to the relatively weak Detroit DT corps in comparison to GB and MIN. Make no mistake, though, the concussions are an issue. But it's impossible to say whether they are a nuisance or career-threatening.

 
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A quick primer on concussions and then an attempt to make sense of the Sims situation.

The American Academy of Neurology grades concussions as follows:

Grade 1

Transient confusion with no loss of consciousness.  Less than 15 minutes for complete resolution of symptoms.  There is all kinds of gray area here.  Technically, seeing stars or having your bell rung for a couple of seconds can properly be called a concussion.  How significant such an injury is very difficult to determine.  If an athlete is known to have suffered a Grade 1 concussion (it is likely that very many go unreported), standard of care allows return to play once all symptoms of altered mental status resolve.  These symptoms may include headache, dizziness, nausea, and confusion among others.

Grade 2

Transient confusion with no loss of consciousness.  More than 15 minutes until complete resolution of symptoms.  Standard of care is removal from play until the player has been free of symptoms for one week.

Grade 3

Loss of consciousness no matter how brief (seconds or more).  Standard of care is removal from play until player has been free of symptoms for one week (brief LOC) or minimum two weeks (longer LOC).

Multiple Grade 1 concussions in a short period of time require one week symptom free rest.  Multiple Grade 2 concussions require two weeks symptom free rest.  Multiple Grade 3 concussion require minimum one month symptom free rest.

Standard of care has become more conservative in recent years with improved recognition and understanding of second impact syndrome.  Sustaining another concussion on the heels of the first, even mild concussion, can have devastating consequences, including death.

It's difficult to get any definitive idea of the severity of Sims' concussions via Google search, but both Sims and Bobby Bowden have been quoted has saying that the majority of concussions were "minor" or "not bad".  Suggests that Sims had multiple Grade 1 concussions.  Sims says he suffered five total concussions.  I can only find three by searches.  Two within one week during preseason practices of October 2004 that kept him out of one week of practice.  And what looks to be a more significant Grade 1 last season (his most recent) during the UVA game, which nearly kept him out of the following week's game vs Duke.

Teams (HS-NFL) just will not take chances with concussions any more.  You can be pretty certain that a big time program like FSU and any NFL team is going to have well respected trainers and neurosurgeons on call to clear their athletes.  You can also be fairly certain that Sims has had at least one MRI in the past 6 months to reassure NFL teams considering drafting him.

So it appears that Sims has probably not had a major concussion.  That said, people who have sustained one concussion are three times as likely to have a second than someone who has never had a concussion.  And there is no question that repeated concussions, no matter how mild, will increase the risk of post-concussion syndrome symptoms.  Not only does that increase the length of time an athlete will be allowed to return to play, but it significantly impacts long term quality of life if the symptoms do not completely resolve.

Sims is a concussion risk.  He may never have another.  He may have one in training camp that requires him to sit for a significant length of time.  He has apparently changed his tackling style and made equipment modifications to protect himself but it remains to be seen if he will stay healthy.

I have Sims as my #3 LB partly due to concussion history, partly due to his other collegiate injuries, partly due to the relatively weak Detroit DT corps in comparison to GB and MIN.  Make no mistake, though, the concussions are an issue.  But it's impossible to say whether they are a nuisance or career-threatening.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
:goodposting: well done
 
weak Detroit DT corps in comparison to GB and MIN
blasphemer!We might all learn a little something today. Excellent discussion and without any insults. The Shark Pool should take notice. As far as Detroit's front office, I am thinking this decision rested nearly 100% with the new HC. He had plenty of access to Sims, given the proximity between Tampa and FSU, over the last few years. Basically, he saw the kid play...often. He also had access to a prominent FSU alum, Brooks, who would have been more than happy to do his old coach a solid and get some scoop on Sims or get the HC in question access to information on Sims. That is part of the scouting process. Millen did not push the red button on this one. Rod Marinelli, the coach with working knowledge of Tampa's Cover-2 scheme and long standing relationship with D. Brooks, did.That is not necessarily a homer's take either. It is outlining how a player is actually scouted. I feel 99.9% confident something very close to what I am suggesting took place.
 
A quick primer on concussions and then an attempt to make sense of the Sims situation.

The American Academy of Neurology grades concussions as follows:

Grade 1

Transient confusion with no loss of consciousness.  Less than 15 minutes for complete resolution of symptoms.  There is all kinds of gray area here.  Technically, seeing stars or having your bell rung for a couple of seconds can properly be called a concussion.  How significant such an injury is very difficult to determine.  If an athlete is known to have suffered a Grade 1 concussion (it is likely that very many go unreported), standard of care allows return to play once all symptoms of altered mental status resolve.  These symptoms may include headache, dizziness, nausea, and confusion among others.

Grade 2

Transient confusion with no loss of consciousness.  More than 15 minutes until complete resolution of symptoms.  Standard of care is removal from play until the player has been free of symptoms for one week.

Grade 3

Loss of consciousness no matter how brief (seconds or more).  Standard of care is removal from play until player has been free of symptoms for one week (brief LOC) or minimum two weeks (longer LOC).

Multiple Grade 1 concussions in a short period of time require one week symptom free rest.  Multiple Grade 2 concussions require two weeks symptom free rest.  Multiple Grade 3 concussion require minimum one month symptom free rest.

Standard of care has become more conservative in recent years with improved recognition and understanding of second impact syndrome.  Sustaining another concussion on the heels of the first, even mild concussion, can have devastating consequences, including death.

It's difficult to get any definitive idea of the severity of Sims' concussions via Google search, but both Sims and Bobby Bowden have been quoted has saying that the majority of concussions were "minor" or "not bad".  Suggests that Sims had multiple Grade 1 concussions.  Sims says he suffered five total concussions.  I can only find three by searches.  Two within one week during preseason practices of October 2004 that kept him out of one week of practice.  And what looks to be a more significant Grade 1 last season (his most recent) during the UVA game, which nearly kept him out of the following week's game vs Duke.

Teams (HS-NFL) just will not take chances with concussions any more.  You can be pretty certain that a big time program like FSU and any NFL team is going to have well respected trainers and neurosurgeons on call to clear their athletes.  You can also be fairly certain that Sims has had at least one MRI in the past 6 months to reassure NFL teams considering drafting him.

So it appears that Sims has probably not had a major concussion.  That said, people who have sustained one concussion are three times as likely to have a second than someone who has never had a concussion.  And there is no question that repeated concussions, no matter how mild, will increase the risk of post-concussion syndrome symptoms.  Not only does that increase the length of time an athlete will be allowed to return to play, but it significantly impacts long term quality of life if the symptoms do not completely resolve.

Sims is a concussion risk.  He may never have another.  He may have one in training camp that requires him to sit for a significant length of time.  He has apparently changed his tackling style and made equipment modifications to protect himself but it remains to be seen if he will stay healthy.

I have Sims as my #3 LB partly due to concussion history, partly due to his other collegiate injuries, partly due to the relatively weak Detroit DT corps in comparison to GB and MIN.  Make no mistake, though, the concussions are an issue.  But it's impossible to say whether they are a nuisance or career-threatening.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
:goodposting: An athletic trainer couldn't have said it any better than this! :thumbup: Another thing is that NFL type caliber players do hit harder. I've never seen footage of Sims' tackling technique. A correct technique actually decreases the chances of concussions. The problem is that technique on how to tackle is something they teach in high school.

I'm sure there have been multiple CT or CAT scans done (Not really something for an MRI) on Sims. DET doctors must of thought everything was fine. I really would hate for an aggressive player like Sims to have a short career in the NFL. I really think he could be special if he can stay on the field without blacking out.

 
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pretender & bloom, I appreciate the information but, as I am currently trying to trade up to draft Sims, I would ask you sit on any more Sims news nuggets for a few more days. 

You are driving the asking price of that pick up...significantly. 

On a serious note and coming from a Lions fan I really like the pick.  The team is in dire need of a defensive playmaker not in a 3 pt. stance and, more importantly, an identity.  Sims is a pad cracker and has that slight edge to his on field personality.  If Millen and Co. are attempting to build a team defense and image, then Sims is the corner stone. 

Consussion(s)?  Considering he was picked 9th without hesitation, I put my trust into the Lions medical staff unless they have Long Horn doctors.  (For Exhibit A search for R. Wright and his undetected torn rotator cuff.  Typical.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
here let me try and help to bring his price down a bit for you...you cant just ignore the concusions...while Sims is a player he wont do you or the lions any good if he is missing time from banging his head ala Dan Morgan...the thing i find the most intriguing is that the lions seem to have a brittle LB corp to start with(Boss, Lehman as examples)...so with that said I was shocked to see them take a player like Sims who has a concusion history...i would think that alone should actually lower his overall value...i say buyer beware on sims

[SIZE=30pt];-)[/SIZE]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Agree Buyer beware!

I'm sure he is cleared medically, that has never been a concern for me, its his fierce hitting. As we all know ... This ain't college anymore, these guys are bigger, stronger and faster. It's getting unreal how big and fast they are anymore. :eek:

With that said ... if he can stay healthy, he may end up being the most productive backer in the class.

 
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I caved...

Sims was still on the board at 2.07, while Hawk; Huff and Williams had already been picked, in a Zealots draft and, well, I traded up to get him.

:ph34r:

Signed,

Lions Apologist

 
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I caved...

Sims was still on the board at 2.07, while Hawk; Huff and Williams had already been picked, in a Zealots draft and, well, I traded up to get him.

:ph34r:

Signed,

Lions Apologist
Okay, everybody, Hello WhoDat!Welcome to Hyped Rookie Linebackers Anonymous. The first step is admitting you've got the problem...

:cough: Greenway :cough:

 
I have a problem. I belong in the hyped rookie linebacker club.

Gulp - shuffle feet ummmm cough cough. I took Greenway and Sims :bag: (and I traded to move up to take Sims too) Its a curse :excited:

 
Many of them have contributed next to nothing thus far (Bailey, Lehman, Rogers, Williams, Harrington, Redding, Cody, etc., etc.).
:confused: Roy Williams has averaged more yards and TD's per game than ALL the WR's from the monster '04 class (Reggie Williams, Evans, Mi. Clayton, Jenkins, Woods, D Henderson, Watts and Colbert)...

...with the exception of all-world Fitzgerald.
Point proven. I was referring to the other Williams.
 
I caved...

Sims was still on the board at 2.07, while Hawk; Huff and Williams had already been picked, in a Zealots draft and, well, I traded up to get him. 

:ph34r:

Signed,

Lions Apologist
Okay, everybody, Hello WhoDat!Welcome to Hyped Rookie Linebackers Anonymous. The first step is admitting you've got the problem...

:cough: Greenway :cough:
Hi my name is Keg and I buy the hype on Rookie LBs....i traded 1.7, 1.11 for 1.4 and a 5th in 07 so i could turn around and deal the 1.4 and 3.1 for for 1.6, 1.16 2.6, 5.6, to get hawk plus...

1.6 Hawk

1.16 Greenway(I passed on Sims and it wasnt easy)

2.6 S Moss

so after 22 picks i have Bush/Hawk/Greenway/SMoss and 2.13 is right around the corner :popcorn:

man those 2 deals did make me dizzy

1.7 , 1.11, 3.1 for 1.6, 1.16, 2.6, 5.6 and 5th in 07 :loco:

 
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Hi my name is Keg and I buy the hype on Rookie LBs....

i traded 1.7, 1.11 for 1.4 and a 5th in 07 so i could turn around and deal the 1.4 and 3.1 for for 1.6, 1.16 2.6, 5.6, to get hawk plus...

1.6 Hawk

1.16 Greenway(I passed on Sims and it wasnt easy)

2.6 S Moss

so after 22 picks i have Bush/Hawk/Greenway/SMoss and 2.13 is right around the corner :popcorn:

man those 2 deals did make me dizzy

1.7 , 1.11, 3.1 for 1.6, 1.16, 2.6, 5.6 and 5th in 07 :loco:
Jeez Keg, I traded up to 1.9 to get Hawk ... nope ...Tried for Greenway/Sims/Jackson at 2.2 ... nope ...

Now I'm on the DeMeco train!!!

 
Hi my name is Keg and I buy the hype on Rookie LBs....

i traded 1.7, 1.11  for 1.4 and a 5th in 07  so i could turn around and deal the 1.4 and 3.1 for for 1.6, 1.16 2.6, 5.6, to get hawk plus...

1.6 Hawk

1.16 Greenway(I passed on Sims and it wasnt easy)

2.6 S Moss

so after 22 picks i have Bush/Hawk/Greenway/SMoss and 2.13 is right around the corner  :popcorn:

man those 2 deals did make me dizzy

1.7 , 1.11, 3.1 for 1.6, 1.16, 2.6, 5.6 and 5th in 07 :loco:
Jeez Keg, I traded up to 1.9 to get Hawk ... nope ...Tried for Greenway/Sims/Jackson at 2.2 ... nope ...

Now I'm on the DeMeco train!!!
i could have had McIntosh or Ryans at the spot i got Moss but figured i had to draft at least 1 off player not named bush :excited:
 
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