Mike Wallace vs. Vincent Jackson (1 Viewer)

[Stryker]

What are your guys' thoughts on these two? Whose got the higher upside for this season? WHo are you ranking higher? I like both guys but if they both are there in the 2nd, who is "the guy" at that spot?

I like to think Rivers is better than Big Ben, Jackson>Wallace in terms of QBs.

"Help players" I think Wallace's supporting cast is better than Jackson's, considering Pitt has a better run game overall.

I think Pittsburghs defense actually HURTS Wallace, because of their tough defense, there will be less high scoring games and running in the 2nd half of games where as San Diego will likely be involved in shootouts.

Jackson's schedule is better than Wallace's also.

So...no brainer, right?

San Diego

vs. Min

@ NE

vs. Kansas City

vs. Miami

@Denver

BYE

@ Jets

@ Kansas City

vs. Green Bay

vs. Oakland

@ Chiago

vs. Denver

@ Jax

vs Buff

vs. Balt

@Detroit

@Oakland

Wallace schedule

@ Baltimore

vs. Seattle

@ Indy

@ Houston

vs Tennessee

vs. Jax

@ Arizona

vs. NE

vs. Baltimore

@Cincy

BYE

@ KC

vs Cinci

vs Cleveland

@ San Fran

vs St. Louis

@ Cleveland

 

[Kenny Powers]

VJax, and even as a Steeler homer, its not very close

 

[laniquity]

Took Nicks in 1st and VJ in the 2nd without a doubt...

 

[jeeb]

Considering the fact that Vincent Jackson has never in his life had more yards receiving or touchdowns in a season than Wallace managed last year in only 12 games with Roethlisberger.

I'll take Mike Wallace and it's not even close.

Not to mention that PIT receivers have the easiest SOS this season while SD receivers have one of the most difficult.

 

[The Stuttering Auctioneer]

VJax, and even as a Steeler homer, its not very close

Agreed, I'm a Steelers fan and although I drafted Wallace in my 1st live draft lastnight, I was targeting VJax. I think VJax is in for a huge year & although I expect Wallace to have a great season, I see VJax being a more consistent scoring option week to week whereas Wallace will have a monster week then a mediocre week.

 

[the spanker]

VJax, and even as a Steeler homer, its not very close

Agreed, I'm a Steelers fan and although I drafted Wallace in my 1st live draft lastnight, I was targeting VJax. I think VJax is in for a huge year & although I expect Wallace to have a great season, I see VJax being a more consistent scoring option week to week whereas Wallace will have a monster week then a mediocre week.

I endorse this statement. I luvs me some Wallace too but until the Steelers change their mindset of running the rock and playing D when they have leads to run out the clock, I gotta go Vjax.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Wallace had 60-1,257-10 last year despite not having his starting QB for 1/4 of the season. His upside is massive, especially in leagues where you get extra for long TDs.

Jackson is also great, but the Chargers spread it around more, and Gates is still likely to be Rivers' go-to guy in pressure situations.

Plus, Wallace simply scores more often than Jackson does. Jackson has yet to hit double digit TDs. Wallace did it in his first season as a starter.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Considering the fact that Vincent Jackson has never in his life had more yards receiving or touchdowns in a season than Wallace managed last year in only 12 games with Roethlisberger.I'll take Mike Wallace and it's not even close.Not to mention that PIT receivers have the easiest SOS this season while SD receivers have one of the most difficult.

If the situation was the same as last year for Wallace (WRs he's competing with are Hines and 2 mid-round rookies), Id agree with you. However, Antonio Brown appears to have locked up the #3 WR spot at worst this year, and has looked very good going back to the playoffs last year. Brown appears to be a budding deep threat as well. They also acquired Cotchery who should also see the field often. Clearly, he has more competition for targets this year. Cant say Ive ever looked at WR SOS, but that should benefit the group as a whole, not just Wallace.Also, Wallace had 12 games (out of 19) with 3 or less catches last year, which also should be a red flag with him.VJax's only competition for targets really is Gates, and SD throws a lot more than Pittsburgh.Of course Wallace has a chance to duplicate his numbers of last year, but to do so he's going to have to average over 21 YPC as well as Antonio Brown, Cotchery, and Sanders combining for less than 550 yards. I dont see either happening.

 

[the spanker]

Wallace had 60-1,257-10 last year despite not having his starting QB for 1/4 of the season. His upside is massive, especially in leagues where you get extra for long TDs. Jackson is also great, but the Chargers spread it around more, and Gates is still likely to be Rivers' go-to guy in pressure situations.Plus, Wallace simply scores more often than Jackson does. Jackson has yet to hit double digit TDs. Wallace did it in his first season as a starter.

Things are a little different this year. Is Wallace the focal point of the Steeler offense? I mean look at all of the guys they have now...Ward, Cotchery, Brown, Sanders, Miller. Do you think Big Ben will focus on Wallace exclusively? Also with that creampuff schedule they have, games could be over by the half with the D they have, then its running the clock out the 2nd half of games.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Wallace had 60-1,257-10 last year despite not having his starting QB for 1/4 of the season. His upside is massive, especially in leagues where you get extra for long TDs.

I cant argue with distance TDs, but Wallace had 211yds and 2TDs in the games Roeth didnt play, so he basically put up 1/5 of his numbers in 1/4 of the season. Its not like he totally struggled before Ben came back. Also, Wallace is a redzone target afterthought, with only 1 of his TDs being under 28yards last year. A good comparative deep threat is DeSean Jackson whose TD's dipped from 9 in 2009 to 6 in 2010 despite better QB play. Considering Wallace had over 21 YPC last year, I find his upside minimal and think he pretty much peaked last year. He'll be a lock for 1000/8 for the next decade, but just because he's young and has Ben for a whole season (hopefully), Im not penciling in 1350/12.

Jackson is also great, but the Chargers spread it around more, and Gates is still likely to be Rivers' go-to guy in pressure situations.

Im too lazy to look up stats, but my gut tells me Rivers doesnt spread it around as much as Roethlisberger. If you do feel like looking that up, last year should be disregarded due to VJax's situation.

Plus, Wallace simply scores more often than Jackson does. Jackson has yet to hit double digit TDs. Wallace did it in his first season as a starter.

A guy named Andre Johnson has also never hit double digit TDs yet.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

Wallace had 60-1,257-10 last year despite not having his starting QB for 1/4 of the season. His upside is massive, especially in leagues where you get extra for long TDs.

I cant argue with distance TDs, but Wallace had 211yds and 2TDs in the games Roeth didnt play, so he basically put up 1/5 of his numbers in 1/4 of the season. Its not like he totally struggled before Ben came back. Also, Wallace is a redzone target afterthought, with only 1 of his TDs being under 28yards last year. A good comparative deep threat is DeSean Jackson whose TD's dipped from 9 in 2009 to 6 in 2010 despite better QB play. Considering Wallace had over 21 YPC last year, I find his upside minimal and think he pretty much peaked last year. He'll be a lock for 1000/8 for the next decade, but just because he's young and has Ben for a whole season (hopefully), Im not penciling in 1350/12.

Jackson is also great, but the Chargers spread it around more, and Gates is still likely to be Rivers' go-to guy in pressure situations.

Im too lazy to look up stats, but my gut tells me Rivers doesnt spread it around as much as Roethlisberger. If you do feel like looking that up, last year should be disregarded due to VJax's situation.

Plus, Wallace simply scores more often than Jackson does. Jackson has yet to hit double digit TDs. Wallace did it in his first season as a starter.

A guy named Andre Johnson has also never hit double digit TDs yet.

In reality, Wallace had 1/6th of his production in the first quarter of the season...which means he was 50% more productive with Big Ben under center.While I don't think you can go wrong with either, what last year proved to me as far as Rivers was concerned was that no matter who he has lining up, and his options were compromised in 2010, he's going to be productive. So I would be inclined to think that Rivers wouldn't feel the need to lean on Rivers as much. Plus, you could make an argument that Gates is the first look in that offense.I also don't understand the logic that because someone hit 21 YPC, that his upside is limited. Couldn't the opposite be true? That since he caught only 60 passes (in only his second season), he has plenty of upside...?

 

[ffnut]

Took both at the 2/3 turn but would have picked Jackson if I could have only taken one.

 

[Kenny Powers]

While I don't think you can go wrong with either, what last year proved to me as far as Rivers was concerned was that no matter who he has lining up, and his options were compromised in 2010, he's going to be productive. So I would be inclined to think that Rivers wouldn't feel the need to lean on Rivers as much. Plus, you could make an argument that Gates is the first look in that offense.I also don't understand the logic that because someone hit 21 YPC, that his upside is limited. Couldn't the opposite be true? That since he caught only 60 passes (in only his second season), he has plenty of upside...?

Wallace, while a very good WR, isnt the kind of WR you lean on. As his TD length and YPC display, thats his strength. Not converting first downs, not having 7/85/1 games. Based on his game, and just like the guy I compared him to before, DJax, I never see either eclisping 80 catches, it just isnt the kind of WR they are. Wallace is an average route runner at best, which also doesnt help.Rivers doesnt necessarily need to lean on VJax, but he is a much more complete WR, and they disparity between him and their other WRs is greater than the Steelers.

 

[PrinceofDarkness]

They are actually very similar players in their statistical profile. Both maximize the relatively few targets they get (Wallace had 98 last season while Jackson had 107 two years ago) with a very high YPC. Something tells me Jackson is the play this year: contract year, Gates has nagging injuries, and SD will pass the ball more. Not to diminish Wallace, but I am sold on VJax having a career year this season.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I think Mike Wallace has more upside. Vincent Jackson is San Diego's No.2 pass catcher IMO, Mike Wallace is Pittsburgh's. Mike Wallace looks like he could be in for a career year if he stays healthy.

 

[eakfootball]

Give me VJax by a good amount. I like him in the 2nd tier of WRs just behind Nicks and Roddy.

 

[Mr. Mojo]

I have them right next to each other going into my draft.

They're about equal. I had Wallace higher until the other WR started looking like he would take some of the deep balls in Pittsburgh.

 

[Team ROFLCOPTERS]

Wallace had 60-1,257-10 last year despite not having his starting QB for 1/4 of the season. His upside is massive, especially in leagues where you get extra for long TDs. Jackson is also great, but the Chargers spread it around more, and Gates is still likely to be Rivers' go-to guy in pressure situations.Plus, Wallace simply scores more often than Jackson does. Jackson has yet to hit double digit TDs. Wallace did it in his first season as a starter.

I would be cautious in expecting Wallace to up his numbers from last season. I can't imagine he will follow up with another 21 YPC season. If you give him a huge catch boost (10 additional for a total of 70) and give him a more attainable 18 YPC you are still getting the same amount of yards. Also, more than half of his TD catches were of 40+ yards if the source I read was correct. That, again, is damn well impossible to match. So if you cut those in half but give him a few extra shorter TD's you again are breaking even from last season. Now, I too believe we have not seen the best of Wallace. If he somehow matched his 21 YPC while adding a modest 10 catches you have the top WR in fantasy football. I just can't responsibly expect him to go out and add to all of the long bombs he caught last year when the team has two other very good deep ball options. My strategy this year has been to target him as a guy who matches last years numbers and if he suprises me, then lucky me. There just isn't in my humble eyes enough room for improvement to count on it.In regards to the topic, I would take Wallace. SD spreads the ball around and I believe SD will have a better run game as well. Jackson will have a fine season but I have ran the numbers two different ways and none of them add up to Wallace's numbers from last season, which like I said is what I am pegging Wallace to duplicate. Also, Jackson has made a career for missing games when knicked or even worse, starting a game and leaving early. I don't know the guy, nor do I know the team doctors, but my gut tells me he doesn't handle pain too well.

 

[Cookiemonster]

1) The TDs are volatile, and in a volatile statistic the high # would indicate an outlier or high-water mark. Expect those to go down for Wallace on catch/TD%.

2) Jackson's main competition for catches is expected to decline soon (Gates-)... Wallace's competition is expected to improve (Ward-)+(Sanders+ & Brown+ & Cotch+).

3) Defense is of little concern. SD's D is not all that bad and may be quite good in a poor division, and Pitt's is top-notch. More posessions = more scoring opps. Big leads = running. Meh.

Given the Steeler bias, and dynasty format I play would favor Wallace, and I'd still take Jackson.

 

[FUBAR]

Considering the fact that Vincent Jackson has never in his life had more yards receiving or touchdowns in a season than Wallace managed last year in only 12 games with Roethlisberger.

I'll take Mike Wallace and it's not even close.

Not to mention that PIT receivers have the easiest SOS this season while SD receivers have one of the most difficult.

If the situation was the same as last year for Wallace (WRs he's competing with are Hines and 2 mid-round rookies), Id agree with you. However, Antonio Brown appears to have locked up the #3 WR spot at worst this year, and has looked very good going back to the playoffs last year. Brown appears to be a budding deep threat as well. They also acquired Cotchery who should also see the field often. Clearly, he has more competition for targets this year. Cant say Ive ever looked at WR SOS, but that should benefit the group as a whole, not just Wallace.Also, Wallace had 12 games (out of 19) with 3 or less catches last year, which also should be a red flag with him.VJax's only competition for targets really is Gates, and SD throws a lot more than Pittsburgh.

Of course Wallace has a chance to duplicate his numbers of last year, but to do so he's going to have to average over 21 YPC as well as Antonio Brown, Cotchery, and Sanders combining for less than 550 yards. I dont see either happening.

Ben threw 32.4 passes per gameRivers threw 33.8 passes per game

You do mention the team instead of the QBs by name, but unless we're assuming Ben misses games again this year, this is too close to matter much.

I'll take VJ's upside over Wallace but not by much. It's worth noting that Wallace only caught 60 balls last year and aside from DeSean Jackson had by far the best ypc in the league. I wouldn't bet on him repeating that average and TDs but the receptions probably won't increase much.

 

[TheDirtyWord]

While I don't think you can go wrong with either, what last year proved to me as far as Rivers was concerned was that no matter who he has lining up, and his options were compromised in 2010, he's going to be productive. So I would be inclined to think that Rivers wouldn't feel the need to lean on Rivers as much. Plus, you could make an argument that Gates is the first look in that offense.I also don't understand the logic that because someone hit 21 YPC, that his upside is limited. Couldn't the opposite be true? That since he caught only 60 passes (in only his second season), he has plenty of upside...?

Wallace, while a very good WR, isnt the kind of WR you lean on. As his TD length and YPC display, thats his strength. Not converting first downs, not having 7/85/1 games. Based on his game, and just like the guy I compared him to before, DJax, I never see either eclisping 80 catches, it just isnt the kind of WR they are. Wallace is an average route runner at best, which also doesnt help.Rivers doesnt necessarily need to lean on VJax, but he is a much more complete WR, and they disparity between him and their other WRs is greater than the Steelers.

I think it's difficult to peg Wallace as a finished product. He's been in the NFL 2 seasons, and has shown significant development in a lot of aspects of his game. To say he's an average route runner at best...let's allow for the fact that this is an area of the game alot of young WR's struggle with and refine over time.VJax is more of a finished product, now entering his 7th year...his game is more polished and established. Truth be told, I think the primary reason people would select Jackson over Wallace has more to do with downside, not upside.A couple of other things to consider in this debate:1) I think Big Ben is the perfect QB for Wallace. He's the best QB in the NFL at extending the play while keeping his eyes downfield. This leads to lots of big plays and Wallace is the perfect compliment to this part of his game. 2) Picking VJax pretty much takes you out of the running for Gates IMO. If you are planning to try and acquire an elite TE, you narrow your options down significantly with the VJax pick.

 

[ceo3west]

Jackson's schedule is better than Wallace's also. San Diegovs. Min@ NEvs. Kansas Cityvs. Miami@DenverBYE@ Jets@ Kansas Cityvs. Green Bayvs. Oakland@ Chiagovs. Denver@ Jaxvs Buffvs. Balt@Detroit @OaklandWallace schedule@ Baltimorevs. Seattle@ Indy@ Houstonvs Tennesseevs. Jax@ Arizonavs. NEvs. Baltimore@CincyBYE@ KCvs Cincivs Cleveland@ San Franvs St. Louis@ Cleveland

Are we looking at the same schedules? Pitt has probably the easiest schedule in the NFL this year, not to mention playoff weeks.

 

[Multiple Scores]

I like both but recently picked Wallace and vjax was the only debate on the pick.

One thing I have noticed the guys choosing vjax are saying over and over without being questioned is about competition for balls. I get that Wallace may have more competition but saying vjax only has gates while excluding Floyd but including all of brown,ward, sanders and cotchery is ridiculous.

For example let's assume Brown busts out and has a breakout season and Hines ward is still very good I highly doubt in that case than cotchery and sanders is better than Floyd.

And also Gates is more of a threat by a huge margin than any Steeler.

I like both alot and have it close but let's stop saying wallace has four guys to worry about and vjax has one. Floyd will have more balls than at least one if not both of cotchery and sanders and gates is the biggest threat of any of them.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Jackson's schedule is better than Wallace's also. San Diegovs. Min@ NEvs. Kansas Cityvs. Miami@DenverBYE@ Jets@ Kansas Cityvs. Green Bayvs. Oakland@ Chiagovs. Denver@ Jaxvs Buffvs. Balt@Detroit @OaklandWallace schedule@ Baltimorevs. Seattle@ Indy@ Houstonvs Tennesseevs. Jax@ Arizonavs. NEvs. Baltimore@CincyBYE@ KCvs Cincivs Cleveland@ San Franvs St. Louis@ Cleveland

Are we looking at the same schedules? Pitt has probably the easiest schedule in the NFL this year, not to mention playoff weeks.

I throw them both out. Neither looks that bad to me and things can change on D's from year to year. Baltimore's mighty D was in the lower half for pass defense last year. Both WR's have QB's that I think can pass on any defense.This is a good WR comparison because I think they've both been similar type players to this point. Neither is going to challenge AJ for receptions but both are explosive and can produce a lot without as many targets.I look at the QB's and the situation each guy is in and my opinion is the stars are aligned for V Jax this year while Wallace may regress a little. V Jax has Rivers, is in a pass happy O, is healthy and gunning for a big year so he can get paid. Wallace has Ben who is not quite Rivers imo, is in maybe a more balanced O, has a much better D behind him, has other WR's that may be taking more targets away from him, and has a coach who may be prone to taking his foot off the gas with a lead since the Pitt D is so strong.

 

[big0mar]

Wallace is going to be a top-5 WR IMO. I think the guy is going to explode this year. Teams are going to be forced into bringing an 8th man into the box against Mendenhall, who should be better than last year. I really don't see Antonio Brown having a negative effect on Wallace's production. If anything, it will just mean less safety help over top of Wallace. He fits their offense perfectly.

Not to mention that Roethlisberger is going to be better than he was last year. Wallace has shown a lot in his first two years. How many WRs have matched his production at that point in their careers? This is going to be a perfect storm for Wallace to get into the "elite" category of NFL WRs.

/Wallace owner

 

[Addai's Adidas]

Wallace is going to be a top-5 WR IMO. I think the guy is going to explode this year. Teams are going to be forced into bringing an 8th man into the box against Mendenhall, who should be better than last year. I really don't see Antonio Brown having a negative effect on Wallace's production. If anything, it will just mean less safety help over top of Wallace. He fits their offense perfectly. Not to mention that Roethlisberger is going to be better than he was last year. Wallace has shown a lot in his first two years. How many WRs have matched his production at that point in their careers? This is going to be a perfect storm for Wallace to get into the "elite" category of NFL WRs./Wallace owner

You could say the same things about the Vincent Jackson, just change all the names.

 

[Abraham]

I think Jackson is going to finish among the top-3 of WRs.

 

[Bamac]

Wallace is going to be a top-5 WR IMO. I think the guy is going to explode this year. Teams are going to be forced into bringing an 8th man into the box against Mendenhall, who should be better than last year. I really don't see Antonio Brown having a negative effect on Wallace's production. If anything, it will just mean less safety help over top of Wallace. He fits their offense perfectly.

Not to mention that Roethlisberger is going to be better than he was last year. Wallace has shown a lot in his first two years. How many WRs have matched his production at that point in their careers? This is going to be a perfect storm for Wallace to get into the "elite" category of NFL WRs.

/Wallace owner

You could say the same things about the Vincent Jackson, just change all the names.

I got stuck here:

Teams are going to be forced into bringing an 8th man into the box against Tolbert (?), who should be better than last year.

 

[DocHolliday]

I would take VJax over Wallace with little doubt. Wallace is a very good WR though. I just think VJax will get more production in the SD O. I think that Pburgh gets back to more running this season. That makes a lot of sense with their easy schedule and the very solid Mendy.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I like both but recently picked Wallace and vjax was the only debate on the pick. One thing I have noticed the guys choosing vjax are saying over and over without being questioned is about competition for balls. I get that Wallace may have more competition but saying vjax only has gates while excluding Floyd but including all of brown,ward, sanders and cotchery is ridiculous. For example let's assume Brown busts out and has a breakout season and Hines ward is still very good I highly doubt in that case than cotchery and sanders is better than Floyd. And also Gates is more of a threat by a huge margin than any Steeler. I like both alot and have it close but let's stop saying wallace has four guys to worry about and vjax has one. Floyd will have more balls than at least one if not both of cotchery and sanders and gates is the biggest threat of any of them.

I think we can throw out last yr since VJax sat out the first 12 games or whatever it was, so excluding 2010, Floyd has never been a Top 50 WR. Hines had his worst year in a decade last year, and still was a Top 40 WR. I know its just preseason, but he's done it against starters not 2nd half scrubs, and I really think Brown is very safe to be a Top 50 WR as well. What Cotchery and an injured Sanders do is really unknown at this point, but I think there will be a large gap between the better of those 2's numbers and Brown's.Obviously Gates is a great player, but I also think with him being a TE, his impact on VJax is different than other WRs competing for targets with him. You also cant bring up Gates without mentioning the injury issues. He was still on the PUP list until a few weeks ago.I know it sounds like I love VJax and down on Wallace, but its more that Im very high on VJax this year and his situation, and with Wallace I see more risk that high in the draft. Like I said earlier, he only had 1 TD under 28yds last year, and in the redzone is probably the 4th option. Id be stunned if he increases from his 10TDs last year.Whether Im right or not, I will bump this at the end of the season because I dont expect Wallace to increase his yardage or TD numbers this year, and I'll wear a Ravens jersey if he surpasses both categories this year because that just won't happen.

 

[big0mar]

Wallace is going to be a top-5 WR IMO. I think the guy is going to explode this year. Teams are going to be forced into bringing an 8th man into the box against Mendenhall, who should be better than last year. I really don't see Antonio Brown having a negative effect on Wallace's production. If anything, it will just mean less safety help over top of Wallace. He fits their offense perfectly. Not to mention that Roethlisberger is going to be better than he was last year. Wallace has shown a lot in his first two years. How many WRs have matched his production at that point in their careers? This is going to be a perfect storm for Wallace to get into the "elite" category of NFL WRs./Wallace owner

You could say the same things about the Vincent Jackson, just change all the names.

Huh? Vincent Jackson is entering his third NFL season? Can we really say that Jackson will make an improvement over what he's done before?

 

[DexterDew]

took both of them last night at 2.12 and 3.01 since they were the last two WR on Tier 2, so I have a vested interest in both... having typed that, I think what Ben and MW did the last 12 games last year gives him a slight edge. I don't see VJax catching 80 passes in that offense since he doesn't run the same types of routes as Wallace. Doing a quick glance at FO's targets for both Wallace runs over half of his routs as Short or Bomb (!?!). VJax just 27% in those two catagories... so he runs more intermediate routs.

MW's 26% short passes that tells me that PIT either designs quick passes to Wallace and/or there are some specific audibles that Roth has just for him. His 27% "bombs" is a huge percentage and I will be curious to see if that continues this year. IMHO, MW is their best playmaker and they will find a way to get him the ball more. And if PIT goes no huddle a little more, I could see MW putting up Top 5 #'s.

VJax is probably a better actual WR than Fantasy since he has only one good year to date. Love the QB and situation so there is hope. He can take over a game. I think his ceiling is lower than MW, FWIW.

 

[T with T]

Wallace is going to be a top-5 WR IMO. I think the guy is going to explode this year. Teams are going to be forced into bringing an 8th man into the box against Mendenhall, who should be better than last year. I really don't see Antonio Brown having a negative effect on Wallace's production. If anything, it will just mean less safety help over top of Wallace. He fits their offense perfectly. Not to mention that Roethlisberger is going to be better than he was last year. Wallace has shown a lot in his first two years. How many WRs have matched his production at that point in their careers? This is going to be a perfect storm for Wallace to get into the "elite" category of NFL WRs./Wallace owner

Good Post I agree... I love wallace and I think 80-1500-12 is not out of the question and a Top 4-5 finish in ppr....I have Vjax about 70-1100-9

 

[pollardsvision]

I'm a V-Jax owner, but I'd rather have Wallace.

Love Jackson's talent and situation, but he's also a 28 year old who's never caught 70 balls in a season and is probably not the primary target on his own team.

Hell, the way Floyd played before getting hurt last year, I'd even say that Jackson is competing with 2 pass-catchers that are both better than any of Wallace's teammates.

The reason nobody can pinpoint exactly who Wallace's competition is is because it's a mix of an old guy and a couple guys who've never done anything.

IMO, the only reason to take Jackson over Wallace is if you are banking on Gates getting hurt. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense to me that Jackson would be likely to outperform Wallace.

 

[Team ROFLCOPTERS]

I can't believe I am the only one that has not assumed Jackson will play a full season thus far in the thread. Everyone seems to be counting a great deal of chickens but those chicken have rarely got to the other side of the road. All things are not equal in that regard and that is the big variable that seperates the two.

Again, I've owned Jackson in one league or another every years since his second season. I ran out of fingers counting all the times he entered a game and left early, thus killing your fantasy week. That doesn't count all the full games missed.

 

[majarrek]

Wallace - higher floor

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Wallace - higher floor

You're going to have to give me a detailed explanation on this one.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Wallace - higher floor

You're going to have to give me a detailed explanation on this one.

Pretty sure it has something to do with:1. V. Jax gets dinged and misses games, pulls out of games. Not sure if he is "soft" in the way Beanie Wells gets labeled.2. History. Wallace put up huge numbers in his second year, V. Jax has had many years with low floor numbers.I like both players a bunch but I think it's very easy to see where Wallace has the higher floor.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

Wallace - higher floor

You're going to have to give me a detailed explanation on this one.

Pretty sure it has something to do with:1. V. Jax gets dinged and misses games, pulls out of games. Not sure if he is "soft" in the way Beanie Wells gets labeled.2. History. Wallace put up huge numbers in his second year, V. Jax has had many years with low floor numbers.I like both players a bunch but I think it's very easy to see where Wallace has the higher floor.

History shows V Jax stats go up every year at WR, barring last year's hot mess, so I believe we still have not seen the best V Jax has to offer. He's only 28 years old. We may very well have seen a career year from Wallace in 2010. 60 receptions off of 98 targets at over 20 ypc and 13 TD's? I don't think it's stupid to think there is regression coming. Everything seemed to work for Wallace last year.V Jax - Rivers. Hungry for his one big contract. No issues off field or injury this preseason. Looks to have fantastic chemistry with Rivers this year.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Disagree on Wallace analysis here. This was only his second year. If Ben didn't underthrow horribly a minimum of 5 passes where Wallace smoked the DB and would have went for at least 50+ yard TDs then that would have been everything going right and a career year.

Wallace - higher floor

You're going to have to give me a detailed explanation on this one.

Pretty sure it has something to do with:1. V. Jax gets dinged and misses games, pulls out of games. Not sure if he is "soft" in the way Beanie Wells gets labeled.2. History. Wallace put up huge numbers in his second year, V. Jax has had many years with low floor numbers.I like both players a bunch but I think it's very easy to see where Wallace has the higher floor.

History shows V Jax stats go up every year at WR, barring last year's hot mess, so I believe we still have not seen the best V Jax has to offer. He's only 28 years old. We may very well have seen a career year from Wallace in 2010. 60 receptions off of 98 targets at over 20 ypc and 13 TD's? I don't think it's stupid to think there is regression coming. Everything seemed to work for Wallace last year.V Jax - Rivers. Hungry for his one big contract. No issues off field or injury this preseason. Looks to have fantastic chemistry with Rivers this year.

 

[Grahamburn]

We may very well have seen a career year from Wallace in 2010. 60 receptions off of 98 targetsat over 20 ypc and 13 TD's? I don't think it's stupid to think there is regression coming. Everything seemed to work for Wallace last year.

Consider the bolded. Yards per catch should regress some, but it's hard to envision those target totals staying that low, which is why so many fantasy players are excited about Wallace's prospects. Wallace went on an absolute tear after week 6 when Ben returned.

 

[scrumptrulescent]

We may very well have seen a career year from Wallace in 2010. 60 receptions off of 98 targetsat over 20 ypc and 13 TD's? I don't think it's stupid to think there is regression coming. Everything seemed to work for Wallace last year.

Consider the bolded. Yards per catch should regress some, but it's hard to envision those target totals staying that low, which is why so many fantasy players are excited about Wallace's prospects. Wallace went on an absolute tear after week 6 when Ben returned.

I know we need to ignore some things from preseason, and not ignore others. Should we ignore the other young stud WR's in Pittsburgh? Brown has been electric in preseason. Sanders looked pretty solid in last year's playoffs. And Ben still trusts Hines and Miller.Yes V Jax has Gates and Floyd to deal with but I think there will be plenty for V Jax in that pass happy offense while I can't say the same for Wallace in his offense.

 

[Grahamburn]

We may very well have seen a career year from Wallace in 2010. 60 receptions off of 98 targetsat over 20 ypc and 13 TD's? I don't think it's stupid to think there is regression coming. Everything seemed to work for Wallace last year.

Consider the bolded. Yards per catch should regress some, but it's hard to envision those target totals staying that low, which is why so many fantasy players are excited about Wallace's prospects. Wallace went on an absolute tear after week 6 when Ben returned.

I know we need to ignore some things from preseason, and not ignore others. Should we ignore the other young stud WR's in Pittsburgh? Brown has been electric in preseason. Sanders looked pretty solid in last year's playoffs. And Ben still trusts Hines and Miller.Yes V Jax has Gates and Floyd to deal with but I think there will be plenty for V Jax in that pass happy offense while I can't say the same for Wallace in his offense.

Rivers' average attempts per game: 33.8Roethlisberger's average attempts per game: 32.4

Both of these offenses could be considered "pass happy." That difference is negligible.

As far as competition for targets goes? That's something that gets brought up quite often in WR arguments. Is it better to have other receiving threats to take coverage away, or to have little competition so every ball in the air likely heads toward the WR1? The QBs for these teams are both great players. They'll throw the ball to the open guy, and both WRs have other threats on the field besides themselves.

This is a great thread topic. It's difficult to pinpoint one of these guys as the "better" option. What I do know is Wallace had a monster season with only 98 targets. There's upside in there if he sees additional looks.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Disagree on Wallace analysis here. This was only his second year. If Ben didn't underthrow horribly a minimum of 5 passes where Wallace smoked the DB and would have went for at least 50+ yard TDs then that would have been everything going right and a career year.

If there's 1 knock on Ben, his deep ball is average at best. He overthrows or underthrows open WRs over 40 yards about twice a game. That aint gonna change.

 

[urbanhack]

I resolved this issue by drafting them both.

 

[SSOG]

I'd take Vincent Jackson because he's more talented.

VJax is probably a better actual WR than Fantasy since he has only one good year to date. Love the QB and situation so there is hope. He can take over a game. I think his ceiling is lower than MW, FWIW.

Which year was his good year? The one where he finished 12th, or the other year when he finished 10th?

I can't believe I am the only one that has not assumed Jackson will play a full season thus far in the thread. Everyone seems to be counting a great deal of chickens but those chicken have rarely got to the other side of the road. All things are not equal in that regard and that is the big variable that seperates the two.Again, I've owned Jackson in one league or another every years since his second season. I ran out of fingers counting all the times he entered a game and left early, thus killing your fantasy week. That doesn't count all the full games missed.

Vincent Jackson had a lower percentage of bad games over the last three seasons than any receiver except for Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, or Roddy White. If you ran out of fingers counting the number of times Vincent Jackson killed your fantasy week, you would have run out of fingers *AND* toes counting for anyone else in the NFL. Newsflash: WR is a volatile position. Everyone puts up lots of bad games. Vincent Jackson puts up fewer than most.

 

[Team ROFLCOPTERS]

We may very well have seen a career year from Wallace in 2010. 60 receptions off of 98 targetsat over 20 ypc and 13 TD's? I don't think it's stupid to think there is regression coming. Everything seemed to work for Wallace last year.

Consider the bolded. Yards per catch should regress some, but it's hard to envision those target totals staying that low, which is why so many fantasy players are excited about Wallace's prospects. Wallace went on an absolute tear after week 6 when Ben returned.

I know we need to ignore some things from preseason, and not ignore others. Should we ignore the other young stud WR's in Pittsburgh? Brown has been electric in preseason. Sanders looked pretty solid in last year's playoffs. And Ben still trusts Hines and Miller.Yes V Jax has Gates and Floyd to deal with but I think there will be plenty for V Jax in that pass happy offense while I can't say the same for Wallace in his offense.

Miller gets few targets. Steelers don't throw to RB's often. Ward has had targets dip every year for years. Also, nobody expects Wallace to only get 98 targets again.On the other foot, very few teams spread the ball around like SD does. You seem to name every Steeler player that has hands as a possible catch deterant but you don't take into consideration the fact that SD has a history of evening out targets, and that includes the RB at a high clip.

 

[Team ROFLCOPTERS]

I'd take Vincent Jackson because he's more talented.

VJax is probably a better actual WR than Fantasy since he has only one good year to date. Love the QB and situation so there is hope. He can take over a game. I think his ceiling is lower than MW, FWIW.

Which year was his good year? The one where he finished 12th, or the other year when he finished 10th?

I can't believe I am the only one that has not assumed Jackson will play a full season thus far in the thread. Everyone seems to be counting a great deal of chickens but those chicken have rarely got to the other side of the road. All things are not equal in that regard and that is the big variable that seperates the two.Again, I've owned Jackson in one league or another every years since his second season. I ran out of fingers counting all the times he entered a game and left early, thus killing your fantasy week. That doesn't count all the full games missed.

Vincent Jackson had a lower percentage of bad games over the last three seasons than any receiver except for Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson, or Roddy White. If you ran out of fingers counting the number of times Vincent Jackson killed your fantasy week, you would have run out of fingers *AND* toes counting for anyone else in the NFL. Newsflash: WR is a volatile position. Everyone puts up lots of bad games. Vincent Jackson puts up fewer than most.

By killing my fantasy week, I said that he was in my lineup but left his game early due to an injury or tweak. That is worse than having a stinker like every WR does. Obviously WR is a volatile position, but that is a variable that should be considered.

 

[T with T]

Wallace - higher floor

You're going to have to give me a detailed explanation on this one.

Pretty sure it has something to do with:1. V. Jax gets dinged and misses games, pulls out of games. Not sure if he is "soft" in the way Beanie Wells gets labeled.2. History. Wallace put up huge numbers in his second year, V. Jax has had many years with low floor numbers.I like both players a bunch but I think it's very easy to see where Wallace has the higher floor.

History shows V Jax stats go up every year at WR, barring last year's hot mess, so I believe we still have not seen the best V Jax has to offer. He's only 28 years old. We may very well have seen a career year from Wallace in 2010. 60 receptions off of 98 targets at over 20 ypc and 13 TD's? I don't think it's stupid to think there is regression coming. Everything seemed to work for Wallace last year.V Jax - Rivers. Hungry for his one big contract. No issues off field or injury this preseason. Looks to have fantastic chemistry with Rivers this year.

13 tds???? I think you meant 10... and your point doesn't really make sense. Yea he only had 98 targets, you expect him to have less targets goin into year 3.... Vjax is a 70 catch guy and 8 tds... Wallace I think can be upwards 80-85 and have 10-12 tds... plus not to mention he is younger. Anything else???

 

[Kenny Powers]

The Steelers have too many options, even once Hines retires, for Wallace to ever be an 80-85 catch guy. Id be surprised if he has 1 year with 85 catches in his career.