My time here has come to an end (1 Viewer)

[KarmaPolice]

Free Speech

xkcd.com

This is rude as AF and goes against everything Joe is about. I don’t think anyone here has whined about free speech. He said he was leaving because he couldn't have an adult conversation on this board.

Then you go and do exactly the what Joe is trying to avoid.

So you priced both Joe and flaps points. Nioce.

It's OK @STEADYMOBBIN 22 I think I understand what they meant.

I do think the point of Freedom Of Speech is different than being able to say anything you like anywhere you want.

The reality here is we've set up a very moderated forum. And we all know "moderate" is just a nice word for "censor". But that's what we do here. And I think most of us are mostly ok with that.

But I see why that can be trouble at scale with bigger groups.

I know what it all means. I know what free speech means. The cartoon literally calls people an *******.

I guess I don't think it's that far off, though. I've had a few discussions with people about being banned and whining about it's because they had this opinion or that. Nah, most of the ones that I saw were because they were in fact being a-holes. I even had one longer ban myself, and I was being an *** as well.

To be clear, this is my opinion and doesn't have to with flap specifically or this thread (he wasn't banned, he left). Waaay too often the go-to excuse for people is political leanings or bad moderation, but IMO most of the time it's because people can't follow simple rules, ignore each other, and refrain from stepping over the line.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I put trolls and people who argue in bad faith on ignore. Life is too short to spend time engaging with people like that. And the board is a much better experience for it. I still read posts by plenty of people I disagree with on football and other matters. The line for me is not what they say but how they say it.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Moderation isn't perfect but ok and the end result is a good experience for the folks this works for.

No problem here. My issue is that there doesn't seem to be any recourse for the really imperfect results. Not the marginal ones, but the really silly ones. I get that you have to be able to let your moderators do their thing, but sometimes it doesn't seem well thought out at all.

Sorry. I'm not sure I'm expressing this very well.

Edit See above post.

 

[Bogart]

The moderation at Reddit is far from perfect. Yeah, you can say dirty words and post nOOds, but it ain't without flaws.

I'll take a PM

I will never understand why people get upset about moderation.

You know one thing that is kinda in the room but I haven't seen brought up is, this is Joe's place and in a free market economy, he can moderate how he likes. Take it or leave it. I don't want to turn this into a Joe B. fanboy thing but he's kinda known for this place, has a vision for it and right, wrong or indifferent has made it abundantly clear how it will be moderated. There are plenty of other places to roost if you disagree. The finishing with a flourish thing by announcing you are leaving, well...you do you.

I don't know that there ARE plenty of other places to roost anymore. I've tried quite a few, nothing is like this place. IMO. We've seen spinoffs from here, but they all die or are so lightly trafficked that you forget about them. I just think this place is unique and definitely worth preserving.

I do miss the arcade at Baseball Tangent.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Aren't the comments you've made in this thread reflective of the point you were trying to make with the Madonna as a content creator thread?
You moderate these boards in the manner you see fit and hope it works for the majority of people that post here. You aren't worried about the people who don't agree with the way the board is moderated because you can't please everyone.

Yes. I need to take more of own advice from the Madonna thread and not worry as much about the (hopefully) minority of folks that aren't with us.

Before I say anything else—the first thing I want to do is thank you and your entire staff for providing us these forums and this community. For the most part I enjoy my time here and I am grateful for all of your hard work and efforts. I certainly don’t envy your position because no matter what you do or what you say with your own product (your forums)—not everybody is going to be happy.

With that said, I do have a bit of a thought where you mention not worrying about the minority of the folks that aren’t “with us”. For me personally—I find that current times are odd because I come from being a major in political science (don’t worry—I’m not going to get political on you here. lol). That major forced me to actively participate in both sides of a debate regardless of which beliefs I personally had. The point of those situations was to allow us to understand that exposing ourselves to different perspectives can allow us to understand why people can have opposing points of views in a civil manner. For me personally—I prefer encouraging dialogue on all topics—-I personaly don’t think that content/topics should be enforced or censored. I think the “being cool” with each other part is what should be moderated. I avoided the political threads not because of the actual point of views and content—but because a lot of it resulted in name calling, clowning people for having different points of views..etc. That’s just my two cents—I would prefer that topics don’t be moderated—but that bad attitudes and bad behavior that doesn’t invite people to participate in the forums should be moderated. In any case—Thank you.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Aren't the comments you've made in this thread reflective of the point you were trying to make with the Madonna as a content creator thread?
You moderate these boards in the manner you see fit and hope it works for the majority of people that post here. You aren't worried about the people who don't agree with the way the board is moderated because you can't please everyone.

Yes. I need to take more of own advice from the Madonna thread and not worry as much about the (hopefully) minority of folks that aren't with us.

Before I say anything else—the first thing I want to do is thank you and your entire staff for providing us these forums and this community. For the most part I enjoy my time here and I am grateful for all of your hard work and efforts. I certainly don’t envy your position because no matter what you do or what you say with your own product (your forums)—not everybody is going to be happy.

With that said, I do have a bit of a thought where you mention not worrying about the minority of the folks that aren’t “with us”. For me personally—I find that current times are odd because I come from being a major in political science (don’t worry—I’m not going to get political on you here. lol). That major forced me to actively participate in both sides of a debate regardless of which beliefs I personally had. The point of those situations was to allow us to understand that exposing ourselves to different perspectives can allow us to understand why people can have opposing points of views in a civil manner. For me personally—I prefer encouraging dialogue on all topics—-I personaly don’t think that content/topics should be enforced or censored. I think the “being cool” with each other part is what should be moderated. I avoided the political threads not because of the actual point of views and content—but because a lot of it resulted in name calling, clowning people for having different points of views..etc. That’s just my two cents—I would prefer that topics don’t be moderated—but that bad attitudes and bad behavior that doesn’t invite peopel to participate in the forums should be moderated. In any case—Thank you.

I think the point of all this is that we all have shown that "being cool" doesn't happen in political conversations. At least the PSF showed Joe and the staff that.

Eta: what my larger point was that I am guessing 80% of their need for moderation of being cool was in the psf and political threads. I understand getting to the point where you don't even want to bother with anything that would get political.

 

[Eephus]

I do miss the arcade at Baseball Tangent.

@Hosstetler

​

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Free Speech

xkcd.com

This is rude as AF and goes against everything Joe is about. I don’t think anyone here has whined about free speech. He said he was leaving because he couldn't have an adult conversation on this board.

Then you go and do exactly the what Joe is trying to avoid.

So you priced both Joe and flaps points. Nioce.

It's OK @STEADYMOBBIN 22 I think I understand what they meant.

I do think the point of Freedom Of Speech is different than being able to say anything you like anywhere you want.

The reality here is we've set up a very moderated forum. And we all know "moderate" is just a nice word for "censor". But that's what we do here. And I think most of us are mostly ok with that.

But I see why that can be trouble at scale with bigger groups.

I know what it all means. I know what free speech means. The cartoon literally calls people an *******.

Better than 50/50 it's right.

 

[gianmarco]

I will add a few things, some that has been alluded to a couple times even though it isn't about the original point or the double standard stuff.

Not my board, not my rules, and it can be run however seen fit to run it, but when it comes to the moderation, I would make 3 points

1). Everyone has bad days. Everyone makes bad decisions at times. None of us are perfect. I've seen "good" posters get lengthy timeouts or bans for singular incidents. Now, I know you can't know everyone here, but there's been examples of known good characters here acting out of character, especially when baited by others, having consequences that are harsh. These punishments don't take into account the full situation or history, especially when it's emotionally charged, a nerve is struck, etc. And, the times I've seen it happen, other posters have mentioned things on their behalf yet that gets ignored. I think there's times it's been gotten really wrong.

2. I think the main reason things have been better with the closing of the PSF is that the bad actors that were constantly stirring things up packed up and left. I think they were given way too big a leash when it was clear to almost everyone who was doing what, especially when it spilled over here. We still get it occasionally but not nearly as often. And for some reason, those bad actors would skate the line and not get the consequences they should have.

3. Finally, when posts or threads have gone a certain way requiring moderation, time outs, and bans, I think the manner and tone from those moderating has been less than ideal. Yeah, grown adults should behave better, but talking down to those who don't, especially considering the notion behind point #1 above has almost always rubbed me the wrong way. I think a great rule to follow when posting here (and really anywhere) is to speak and write the way you would if you were standing right in front of them. I've personally tried to do better with that myself over the years here.

And I get that I only see a fraction of what gets moderated or sent and there's probably some bad things that have been directed toward those in charge, but I still think speaking with respect to those that have done wrong would go a long way instead of talking down to them like children.

With all that said, this is a great place with some great people with whom I've made some true friendships and had life changing impacts as a result, so I'll always be thankful for that here.

 

[Rich Conway]

We live in times where people seem to think that if something isn't expressly forbidden then it's not only allowed but is obligatory.

Children act on the premise of "well you didn't tell me I couldn't do it!"

Adults are supposed to learn how to act with discretion.

Can't believe I'm the first one to post this. You guys are slipping.

George Costanza: Was That Wrong?

It's astonishing how many times a day this clip is relevant.

www.youtube.com

 

[Major]

I do miss the ability to discuss anything female related in here. It's like we're in Sunday school again and you get scolded for the slightest of infractions.

 

[FarFromHome]

I've never had a problem with anyone telling me how they feel about any topic. My issue is when people tell me how I should feel.

 

[acarey50]

Perhaps we should have a "Purge" day where anything goes. A single 24 hour period to let everyone get it all out of their systems. At the end of the 24 hour period, delete it all and back to the regular rules.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I will add a few things, some that has been alluded to a couple times even though it isn't about the original point or the double standard stuff.

Not my board, not my rules, and it can be run however seen fit to run it, but when it comes to the moderation, I would make 3 points

1). Everyone has bad days. Everyone makes bad decisions at times. None of us are perfect. I've seen "good" posters get lengthy timeouts or bans for singular incidents. Now, I know you can't know everyone here, but there's been examples of known good characters here acting out of character, especially when baited by others, having consequences that are harsh. These punishments don't take into account the full situation or history, especially when it's emotionally charged, a nerve is struck, etc. And, the times I've seen it happen, other posters have mentioned things on their behalf yet that gets ignored. I think there's times it's been gotten really wrong.

2. I think the main reason things have been better with the closing of the PSF is that the bad actors that were constantly stirring things up packed up and left. I think they were given way too big a leash when it was clear to almost everyone who was doing what, especially when it spilled over here. We still get it occasionally but not nearly as often. And for some reason, those bad actors would skate the line and not get the consequences they should have.

3. Finally, when posts or threads have gone a certain way requiring moderation, time outs, and bans, I think the manner and tone from those moderating has been less than ideal. Yeah, grown adults should behave better, but talking down to those who don't, especially considering the notion behind point #1 above has almost always rubbed me the wrong way. I think a great rule to follow when posting here (and really anywhere) is to speak and write the way you would if you were standing right in front of them. I've personally tried to do better with that myself over the years here.

And I get that I only see a fraction of what gets moderated or sent and there's probably some bad things that have been directed toward those in charge, but I still think speaking with respect to those that have done wrong would go a long way instead of talking down to them like children.

With all that said, this is a great place with some great people with whom I've made some true friendships and had life changing impacts as a result, so I'll always be thankful for that here.

And, as was pointed out in the comic strip above, some of us are just ########.

Speaking of... you talked to Bob lately? How's he doing? If he's been around here lately, I don't think I've seen him.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Perhaps we should have a "Purge" day where anything goes. A single 24 hour period to let everyone get it all out of their systems. At the end of the 24 hour period, delete it all and back to the regular rules.

I love it!!

 

[Major]

Perhaps we should have a "Purge" day where anything goes. A single 24 hour period to let everyone get it all out of their systems. At the end of the 24 hour period, delete it all and back to the regular rules.

Haha, that would be awesome. Make sure it's on a Friday. I'll notify Offdee.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Perhaps we should have a "Purge" day where anything goes. A single 24 hour period to let everyone get it all out of their systems. At the end of the 24 hour period, delete it all and back to the regular rules.

Haha, that would be awesome. Make sure it's on a Friday. I'll notify Offdee.

Lol. We'd probably get Joe arrested.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Aren't the comments you've made in this thread reflective of the point you were trying to make with the Madonna as a content creator thread?
You moderate these boards in the manner you see fit and hope it works for the majority of people that post here. You aren't worried about the people who don't agree with the way the board is moderated because you can't please everyone.

Yes. I need to take more of own advice from the Madonna thread and not worry as much about the (hopefully) minority of folks that aren't with us.

Before I say anything else—the first thing I want to do is thank you and your entire staff for providing us these forums and this community. For the most part I enjoy my time here and I am grateful for all of your hard work and efforts. I certainly don’t envy your position because no matter what you do or what you say with your own product (your forums)—not everybody is going to be happy.

With that said, I do have a bit of a thought where you mention not worrying about the minority of the folks that aren’t “with us”. For me personally—I find that current times are odd because I come from being a major in political science (don’t worry—I’m not going to get political on you here. lol). That major forced me to actively participate in both sides of a debate regardless of which beliefs I personally had. The point of those situations was to allow us to understand that exposing ourselves to different perspectives can allow us to understand why people can have opposing points of views in a civil manner. For me personally—I prefer encouraging dialogue on all topics—-I personaly don’t think that content/topics should be enforced or censored. I think the “being cool” with each other part is what should be moderated. I avoided the political threads not because of the actual point of views and content—but because a lot of it resulted in name calling, clowning people for having different points of views..etc. That’s just my two cents—I would prefer that topics don’t be moderated—but that bad attitudes and bad behavior that doesn’t invite peopel to participate in the forums should be moderated. In any case—Thank you.

I think the point of all this is that we all have shown that "being cool" doesn't happen in political conversations. At least the PSF showed Joe and the staff that.

Eta: what my larger point was that I am guessing 80% of their need for moderation of being cool was in the psf and political threads. I understand getting to the point where you don't even want to bother with anything that would get political.

I do think that “being cool” in political conversations is possible—-and frankly—I think it’s something that is necessary for our society to progress. Generally speaking—problems don’t get solved through avoiding speaking about them. I do think that if I owned an Internet forum—that it would be far more convenient to moderate topics than it is to moderate behavior. Moderating behavior would involve having staff members patrol most of the topics and threads to keep an eye on things. I think it would be a lot of work, would cost a lot of money —but I do think that it would really make this place special. Having a forum where people can discuss sensitive and polarizing topics in a civil and polite way would be far more valuable than having a place where sensitive and polarizing topics are treated as being radioactive. Like I said—I think Joe does a wonderful job and I’m grateful for what the staff does—but I do think that moderating behavior and a polite culture is far better than moderating content (although it’s a far more difficult and costly task).

 

[KarmaPolice]

Aren't the comments you've made in this thread reflective of the point you were trying to make with the Madonna as a content creator thread?
You moderate these boards in the manner you see fit and hope it works for the majority of people that post here. You aren't worried about the people who don't agree with the way the board is moderated because you can't please everyone.

Yes. I need to take more of own advice from the Madonna thread and not worry as much about the (hopefully) minority of folks that aren't with us.

Before I say anything else—the first thing I want to do is thank you and your entire staff for providing us these forums and this community. For the most part I enjoy my time here and I am grateful for all of your hard work and efforts. I certainly don’t envy your position because no matter what you do or what you say with your own product (your forums)—not everybody is going to be happy.

With that said, I do have a bit of a thought where you mention not worrying about the minority of the folks that aren’t “with us”. For me personally—I find that current times are odd because I come from being a major in political science (don’t worry—I’m not going to get political on you here. lol). That major forced me to actively participate in both sides of a debate regardless of which beliefs I personally had. The point of those situations was to allow us to understand that exposing ourselves to different perspectives can allow us to understand why people can have opposing points of views in a civil manner. For me personally—I prefer encouraging dialogue on all topics—-I personaly don’t think that content/topics should be enforced or censored. I think the “being cool” with each other part is what should be moderated. I avoided the political threads not because of the actual point of views and content—but because a lot of it resulted in name calling, clowning people for having different points of views..etc. That’s just my two cents—I would prefer that topics don’t be moderated—but that bad attitudes and bad behavior that doesn’t invite peopel to participate in the forums should be moderated. In any case—Thank you.

I think the point of all this is that we all have shown that "being cool" doesn't happen in political conversations. At least the PSF showed Joe and the staff that.

Eta: what my larger point was that I am guessing 80% of their need for moderation of being cool was in the psf and political threads. I understand getting to the point where you don't even want to bother with anything that would get political.

I do think that “being cool” in political conversations is possible—-and frankly—I think it’s something that is necessary for our society to progress. Generally speaking—problems don’t get solved through avoiding speaking about them. I do think that if I owned an Internet forum—that it would be far more convenient to moderate topics than it is to moderate behavior. Moderating behavior would involve having staff members patrol most of the topics and threads to keep an eye on things. I think it would be a lot of work, would cost a lot of money —but I do think that it would really make this place special. Having a forum where people can discuss sensitive and polarizing topics in a civil and polite way would be far more valuable than having a place where sensitive and polarizing topics are treated as being radioactive. Like I said—I think Joe does a wonderful job and I’m grateful for what the staff does—but I do think that moderating behavior and a polite culture is far better than moderating content (although it’s a far more difficult and costly task).

I seem to agree with both groups of people here. It was tried, and I agree with you that moderating behavior is the better way to go. I would love it if we could discuss political or difficult things around here - in general we are great collection of people and minds. That said, I have also spent enough time in the PSF to understand that we didn't seem to be the people capable of making it even moderately easy on the mods. It became a tribal cesspool where a handful of people were nuking it for the rest of the people. That isn't special to us, that is the internet and society in 2024. I know I wouldn't have the patience for it or want to deal with it.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I do miss the ability to discuss anything female related in here. It's like we're in Sunday school again and you get scolded for the slightest of infractions.

I realize and accept not everyone agrees with our position on not having the threads that invariably lead to ogling women. But I don't think anyone is "scolded". We just don't have those threads here any longer.

There are some benefits of posters being anonymous.

But a bunch of old guys using anonymous screen names salivating over women half their age is not something I want us to have here.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Perhaps we should have a "Purge" day where anything goes. A single 24 hour period to let everyone get it all out of their systems. At the end of the 24 hour period, delete it all and back to the regular rules.

Haha, that would be awesome. Make sure it's on a Friday. I'll notify Offdee.

Lol. We'd probably get Joe arrested.

 

[SWC]

Perhaps we should have a "Purge" day where anything goes. A single 24 hour period to let everyone get it all out of their systems. At the end of the 24 hour period, delete it all and back to the regular rules.

Haha, that would be awesome. Make sure it's on a Friday. I'll notify Offdee.

Lol. We'd probably get Joe arrested.

no we wouldnt we would all act like we would and then most of the stuff posted would be the underwear section from the 1982 sears catalog because we are all as old as dirt and boring as hell and thats the truth take that the bank bromigo

 

[Joe Bryant]

I do think that “being cool” in political conversations is possible—-and frankly—I think it’s something that is necessary for our society to progress. Generally speaking—problems don’t get solved through avoiding speaking about them. I do think that if I owned an Internet forum—that it would be far more convenient to moderate topics than it is to moderate behavior. Moderating behavior would involve having staff members patrol most of the topics and threads to keep an eye on things. I think it would be a lot of work, would cost a lot of money —but I do think that it would really make this place special. Having a forum where people can discuss sensitive and polarizing topics in a civil and polite way would be far more valuable than having a place where sensitive and polarizing topics are treated as being radioactive. Like I said—I think Joe does a wonderful job and I’m grateful for what the staff does—but I do think that moderating behavior and a polite culture is far better than moderating content (although it’s a far more difficult and costly task).

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. For us the answer is we try to do both. And you're 100% right, modering topics is much easier than moderating behaviour. But we try to do both.

There are plenty of normal topics where a poster will steer over the line with behavior and be uncool and be asked to be more cool. That happens quite a bit. But you're right, it's much more work. But it can be done.

And I fully agree with your words, "problems don’t get solved through avoiding speaking about them". That was the primary reason I was so reluctant to give up on the political forum. But in the end, I realized we didn't have the manpower or patience to try and solve it ourselves. I felt and sometimes feel guilty about admitting it was too much for us and throwing in the towel on it. But I had to admit defeat there.

 

[Joe Bryant]

To add to @jvdesigns2002 's point - it's REALLY difficult to talk about politics. Some of my closest friends have different political ideas than I do and even with guys I've known for 20 years and love, we regularly have semi serious problems and hurt feelings in talking about things. It's possible, and we'll keep at it, but it's tough.

If it's that tough with your best and closest real-life friends, it sadly seems like making it work in a public forum is nearly impossible.

 

[Doug B]

I think the “being cool” with each other part is what should be moderated. I avoided the political threads not because of the actual point of views and content—but because a lot of it resulted in name calling, clowning people for having different points of views..etc. That’s just my two cents—I would prefer that topics don’t be moderated—but that bad attitudes and bad behavior that doesn’t invite peopel to participate in the forums should be moderated. In any case—Thank you.

This all day. There are boards similar to this one that allow political talk -- but they come down like a ton of bricks on uncivil language.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think the “being cool” with each other part is what should be moderated. I avoided the political threads not because of the actual point of views and content—but because a lot of it resulted in name calling, clowning people for having different points of views..etc. That’s just my two cents—I would prefer that topics don’t be moderated—but that bad attitudes and bad behavior that doesn’t invite peopel to participate in the forums should be moderated. In any case—Thank you.

but they come down like a ton of bricks on uncivil language.

Sure. We do a ton of that here. That's the majority of our moderation.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

To add to @jvdesigns2002 's point - it's REALLY difficult to talk about politics. Some of my closest friends have different political ideas than I do and even with guys I've known for 20 years and love, we regularly have semi serious problems and hurt feelings in talking about things. It's possible, and we'll keep at it, but it's tough.

If it's that tough with your best and closest real-life friends, it sadly seems like making it work in a public forum is nearly impossible.

There is a reason we’re not supposed to talk about politics at the dinner table.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Only thing I miss are threads about major news events that can tilt political. I thought the politics forum was a clown show but I did like having an occasional thread if something major was happening. Like the upcoming November election. It will be like it’s not even happening around here. Would be nice to chat about the votes coming in that night.

 

[Keerock]

Only thing I miss are threads about major news events that can tilt political. I thought the politics forum was a clown show but I did like having an occasional thread if something major was happening. Like the upcoming November election. It will be like it’s not even happening around here. Would be nice to chat about the votes coming in that night.

And yoga pants... don't forget the yoga pants.

 

[fatness]

Perhaps we should have a "Purge" day where anything goes. A single 24 hour period to let everyone get it all out of their systems. At the end of the 24 hour period, delete it all and back to the regular rules.

Haha, that would be awesome. Make sure it's on a Friday. I'll notify Offdee.

Lol. We'd probably get Joe arrested.

no we wouldnt we would all act like we would and then most of the stuff posted would be the underwear section from the 1982 sears catalog because we are all as old as dirt and boring as hell and thats the truth take that the bank bromigo

Hot stuff here.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

2. I think the main reason things have been better with the closing of the PSF is that the bad actors that were constantly stirring things up packed up and left. I think they were given way too big a leash when it was clear to almost everyone who was doing what, especially when it spilled over here. We still get it occasionally but not nearly as often. And for some reason, those bad actors would skate the line and not get the consequences they should have.

I think this is spot on, and on the bolded there's a certain type of person that is absolutely masterful at staying just inside the lines of any sort of written rule, and they are really difficult for any fair-minded, rules-oriented individuals to deal with. People can see what they're doing, but everything has plausible deniability, and any particular infraction will be rules-lawyered to death, accompanied by all sorts of arguably similar statements from good-faith posters being drug out and used to create a morass of back and forth. I've actually seen a board try to deal with this problem by just giving one dude they trusted non-vetoable banishment power to get rid of this small group that brings outsized trouble. It's a tough problem for sure.

 

[Joe Bryant]

2. I think the main reason things have been better with the closing of the PSF is that the bad actors that were constantly stirring things up packed up and left. I think they were given way too big a leash when it was clear to almost everyone who was doing what, especially when it spilled over here. We still get it occasionally but not nearly as often. And for some reason, those bad actors would skate the line and not get the consequences they should have.

I think this is spot on, and on the bolded there's a certain type of person that is absolutely masterful at staying just inside the lines of any sort of written rule, and they are really difficult for any fair-minded, rules-oriented individuals to deal with. People can see what they're doing, but everything has plausible deniability, and any particular infraction will be rules-lawyered to death, accompanied by all sorts of arguably similar statements from good-faith posters being drug out and used to create a morass of back and forth. I've actually seen a board try to deal with this problem by just giving one dude they trusted non-vetoable banishment power to get rid of this small group that brings outsized trouble. It's a tough problem for sure.

Yes. Some things are easy. But after a while, those are rare.

In most cases, it was people who knew just how far they could push. And always have able to do the "Who Me?" . When most everyone knew what they meant.

I'm pretty good at seeing it, unfortunately, because I'm good at doing it myself.

But it's a difficult task to moderate.

That's why the "just don't be uncivil" is a lot easier to say than it is to enforce in reality.

 

[northern exposure]

2. I think the main reason things have been better with the closing of the PSF is that the bad actors that were constantly stirring things up packed up and left. I think they were given way too big a leash when it was clear to almost everyone who was doing what, especially when it spilled over here. We still get it occasionally but not nearly as often. And for some reason, those bad actors would skate the line and not get the consequences they should have.

I think this is spot on, and on the bolded there's a certain type of person that is absolutely masterful at staying just inside the lines of any sort of written rule, and they are really difficult for any fair-minded, rules-oriented individuals to deal with. People can see what they're doing, but everything has plausible deniability, and any particular infraction will be rules-lawyered to death, accompanied by all sorts of arguably similar statements from good-faith posters being drug out and used to create a morass of back and forth. I've actually seen a board try to deal with this problem by just giving one dude they trusted non-vetoable banishment power to get rid of this small group that brings outsized trouble. It's a tough problem for sure.

Yes. Some things are easy. But after a while, those are rare.

In most cases, it was people who knew just how far they could push. And always have able to do the "Who Me?" . When most everyone knew what they meant.

I'm pretty good at seeing it, unfortunately, because I'm good at doing it myself.

But it's a difficult task to moderate.

That's why the "just don't be uncivil" is a lot easier to say than it is to enforce in reality.

As an outside observer it seems that political discussions in the USA have become nastier in the last 12-15 years.
I don't remember this level of hostility between the sides in the past. I live in Canada, so am I correct or has it always been this bad?

 

[Willie Neslon]

Only thing I miss are threads about major news events that can tilt political. I thought the politics forum was a clown show but I did like having an occasional thread if something major was happening. Like the upcoming November election. It will be like it’s not even happening around here. Would be nice to chat about the votes coming in that night.

That thread would be like a DUI checkpoint on New Years Eve.

 

[kupcho1]

As an outside observer it seems that political discussions in the USA have become nastier in the last 12-15 years.
I don't remember this level of hostility between the sides in the past. I live in Canada, so am I correct or has it always been this bad?

Well in 1856 Senator Charles Sumner was beaten with a cane in the Senate by another Senator. That was pretty hostile.

Of course they didn't have Facebook and Twitter and Tiktok back then so it really didn't spill over into the FFA at the time.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Only thing I miss are threads about major news events that can tilt political. I thought the politics forum was a clown show but I did like having an occasional thread if something major was happening. Like the upcoming November election. It will be like it’s not even happening around here. Would be nice to chat about the votes coming in that night.

That thread would be like a DUI checkpoint on New Years Eve.

I don’t know. Might be possible to talk about the results coming in without a right or left stance.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

If I am not allowed to openly discuss things I support and individuals I have interest in in a world that constantly shuts down the discussion of things deemed inappropriate by the powers that be, then footballguys serves no use to me. So long

That sucks.

I like having you around

-I understand how Flap feels, and I wish it didn't feel that way but the fact I understand means I sometimes see things the way he does
That said, I was just thinking how amazing it is 25 years later that folks are still gathering around
Again that said, it does feel like some views are more accepted because they hit certain boxes whatever those might be.

All that said, I feel like DK here, and I like having everyone around that's still here and every time we lose one, it kinda sucks.
I'd rather bend then break, I'd rather give then lose all together, I don't even know what we're talking about

-Say it ain't so Flap
-I left once or twice...maybe just once

 

[Joe Bryant]

As an outside observer it seems that political discussions in the USA have become nastier in the last 12-15 years.
I don't remember this level of hostility between the sides in the past. I live in Canada, so am I correct or has it always been this bad?

Well in 1856 Senator Charles Sumner was beaten with a cane in the Senate by another Senator. That was pretty hostile.

Of course they didn't have Facebook and Twitter and Tiktok back then so it really didn't spill over into the FFA at the time.

It's a good question. The conventional wisdom is that yes, it's become much more contentious in the last 15 years. But @kupcho1 is right of course, it used to be violently contentious.

So not really sure.

Legend has it Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neil would argue like enemies during the day then kick back with a cigar over dinner at night. That's probably romanticizing.

Social media has obviously had a huge impact. As have cameras on phones where so much more is seen.

One thing that I have personally noticed is the hesitancy to accept other points of views valid.

It used to be one could have an opinion on an issue that was different than another person's and it was seen as a legitimate debate.

Now it seems it too quickly goes into the other person doesn't just have a different opinion. But that they are a legitimately actual evil person. That feels different.

 

[Joe Bryant]

And my how this thread has wandered. I wonder if Flap knew what he was getting us into.

 

[beer 30]

And my how this thread has wandered. I wonder if Flap knew what he was getting us into.

Was just thinking, when he comes back on Monday and sees 5 pages thinking, "ah, they love me, they really love me!!!"

 

[Don Quixote]

And my how this thread has wandered. I wonder if Flap knew what he was getting us into.

Was just thinking, when he comes back on Monday and sees 5 pages thinking, "ah, they love me, they really love me!!!"

His profile says “last seen today”.

 

[The Gator]

And my how this thread has wandered. I wonder if Flap knew what he was getting us into.

Was just thinking, when he comes back on Monday and sees 5 pages thinking, "ah, they love me, they really love me!!!"

His profile says “last seen today”.

C’mon flap, at least login to your @mr. furley alias to browse.

 

[JohnnyU]

Why must things be political?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Only thing I miss are threads about major news events that can tilt political. I thought the politics forum was a clown show but I did like having an occasional thread if something major was happening. Like the upcoming November election. It will be like it’s not even happening around here. Would be nice to chat about the votes coming in that night.

As much as I sympathize with the point you're making, it just won't work. The small handful of politics-adjacent threads on this forum already attract refugees from the PSF who apparently still monitor this place. They'd be like flies attracted to an open wound if we did an election thread.

 

[dgreen]

Only thing I miss are threads about major news events that can tilt political. I thought the politics forum was a clown show but I did like having an occasional thread if something major was happening. Like the upcoming November election. It will be like it’s not even happening around here. Would be nice to chat about the votes coming in that night.

That thread would be like a DUI checkpoint on New Years Eve.

I don’t know. Might be possible to talk about the results coming in without a right or left stance.

Maybe start a thread saying you are watching a sporting event between a red team and a blue team. Or, people like mascots, so it could be the elephants vs the donkeys. First team to 270 wins. The mods will be none-the-wiser.

 

[dgreen]

Why must things be political?

Can't we all just get along?

 

[BoltNlava]

2. I think the main reason things have been better with the closing of the PSF is that the bad actors that were constantly stirring things up packed up and left. I think they were given way too big a leash when it was clear to almost everyone who was doing what, especially when it spilled over here. We still get it occasionally but not nearly as often. And for some reason, those bad actors would skate the line and not get the consequences they should have.

I think this is spot on, and on the bolded there's a certain type of person that is absolutely masterful at staying just inside the lines of any sort of written rule, and they are really difficult for any fair-minded, rules-oriented individuals to deal with. People can see what they're doing, but everything has plausible deniability, and any particular infraction will be rules-lawyered to death, accompanied by all sorts of arguably similar statements from good-faith posters being drug out and used to create a morass of back and forth. I've actually seen a board try to deal with this problem by just giving one dude they trusted non-vetoable banishment power to get rid of this small group that brings outsized trouble. It's a tough problem for sure.

Yes. Some things are easy. But after a while, those are rare.

In most cases, it was people who knew just how far they could push. And always have able to do the "Who Me?" . When most everyone knew what they meant.

I'm pretty good at seeing it, unfortunately, because I'm good at doing it myself.

But it's a difficult task to moderate.

That's why the "just don't be uncivil" is a lot easier to say than it is to enforce in reality.

As an outside observer it seems that political discussions in the USA have become nastier in the last 12-15 years.
I don't remember this level of hostility between the sides in the past. I live in Canada, so am I correct or has it always been this bad?

So...are you just left of the moose in the road or right?

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I do miss the ability to discuss anything female related in here. It's like we're in Sunday school again and you get scolded for the slightest of infractions.

If I can't talk about tampons, it's over.

 

[mr. furley]

And my how this thread has wandered. I wonder if Flap knew what he was getting us into.

Was just thinking, when he comes back on Monday and sees 5 pages thinking, "ah, they love me, they really love me!!!"

His profile says “last seen today”.

C’mon flap, at least login to your @mr. furley alias to browse.

 

[The Gator]

And my how this thread has wandered. I wonder if Flap knew what he was getting us into.

Was just thinking, when he comes back on Monday and sees 5 pages thinking, "ah, they love me, they really love me!!!"

His profile says “last seen today”.

C’mon flap, at least login to your @mr. furley alias to browse.

See you in the Bears thread