sho nuff
Footballguy
Really? Ive seen people on both sides swarmed often. Its been happening long before Trump.
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***Official 1/6 Select Committee thread*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dozer
- Start date
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Did the committee say anything about why they didn't have the driver testifying? Did he not comply with a subpoena?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Thank you. That's why I don't get too excited when people say "she was under oath!"
This seems to be a good example why hearsay isn't permitted in real trials but is perfectly fine for show trials. Bonus benefit, NYT and CNN get to run with it as though it's true.
ZADO
Footballguy
She repeated hearsay and it cant be cross examined ,so yes,she can say whatever she wants
The Commish
Footballguy
meh....that's an enormous difference between "questioning" and labeling someone a liar with exactly ZERO proof of it. I have absolutely no problem with someone saying "this is what she heard...let's see what those directly involved have to say". That's not what is happening in this thread. She recounted her recollection of a conversation she had with person(s) there and she made it crystal clear it was her recollection of the conversation. @bigbottom nailed it in his post above.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Only hearsay from what I recall was the limo story -- which is like arguing if it was really ketchup...."hey it coulda been mustard!!" on the walls she was cleaning up ---
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I'm far more interested in the testimony about Trump wanting to let armed people into the ellipse and marching to the Capitol.
"They're not here to hurt me". I wonder who they were there to hurt? Especially if they would have been able to carry their weapons to the Capitol.
"They're not here to hurt me". I wonder who they were there to hurt? Especially if they would have been able to carry their weapons to the Capitol.
steelcityman
Footballguy
Who could it be, Biden, Harris, then who else is there? Those 2 arent beating DeSantis. Dems would need someone other than those two. Would Chris Murphy run vs dem? Mitch Landrieu? Gavin Newsome? Need someone fresh, the first 2 have that, but not the cache.The Dude said:
Coach Beard
Footballguy
That reminds me of another big takeaway for me from Hutchinson’s testimony. I have a deeper understanding of why Meadows seems to be treated differently by the Select Committee and the DOJ than other members of Trump’s inner circle. Meadows knew a lot more in the days leading up to January 6 than I previously thought he did.
Which reminds me of another thought from that witness tampering coda from the hearing. Is there a way to follow the money here, or is the money all too dark to track? Like does Meadows run a PAC or an NPO where we can look at donations and see if there’s a correlation between monies received and his willingness to cooperate with investigators?
sho nuff
Footballguy
it was one minute part of her overall testimony…it can be refuted by someone under oath…it has yet to be.
She can say whatever she wants…under penalties of perjury.
Are you stating she lied under oath? What would be her motivation for doing so?
bigbottom
Footballguy
Another big moment was when Meadows said “You heard him. He thinks Mike deserves it” (or words to that effect). Given that I believe Meadows was speaking about a conversation with Trump that she was not present for, that would be hearsay as well. While Meadows may in fact have said precisely that, he could have easily been interpreting what he believed Trump thought as opposed to directly quoting him.
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steelcityman
Footballguy
Secret Service has cooperated with the investigation. And they were in a suburban and not the limo(beast) the day of the alleged choking. Hutchinson wasnt in there, and was only saying what she was told by someone else. If the SS said it didnt happen, why would Cheney have brought it up? Lets see if Engel or the SS refute her testimony.....
Frankly, IDC what Trump did in the limo(SUV). These guys knew it was coming, new there was going to be trouble, and allowed it to happen, incited it, took back the metal detectors. Thats the issue, not trying to grab a steering wheel.
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The Commish
Footballguy
Secret Service has been a willing participant to the fact finding mission of the 1/6 committee from the beginning. I doubt that changes. They will likely issue a statement or even go on record to clear things up and give their version of what is in their incident reports. I am willing to bet if anything "different" is exposed, it's that Trump didn't physically touch anyone. That part never sat right with me...he's not that kind of "alpha" guy. They will acknowledge that there was an incident in the vehicle (which is the important part IMO).
Amused to Death
Footballguy
You (and everyone else in here arguing) really should watch/listen to the hearings. Then discuss this in good faith. Right now people are arguing talking points.
Listen to the testimony, form your own opinions.
pantherclub
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
I think there is a lot of people misunderstanding what an article says / mixing up convoluted legal terms.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Right…it was more about his mindset than any big accusation. Id actually rather they had not even brought it into testimony being second hand information that really wasn’t all that relevant to the rest of her testimony. Stick to the direct knowledge.
bigbottom
Footballguy
I’m saying that now. It’s why I don’t lend a whole lot of weight to that particular piece of testimony to the issue of what actually happened in the car. I think it’s just as likely that person who told her the story was completely embellishing at the time.
Yeah, its a disconnect for me visualizing the "threat" of those short vulgarian fingers on someones clavicle ---
Rich Conway
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
He's more "Pinky" from Next Friday than anything people have managed to come up with.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
It sure looks like Trump was bent on enabling the mob to access the capitol and intimidate Congress and the Vice-president into abandoning their constitutional duties. It is now very reasonable to prosecute.
Speculatively, his decision to take no additional protective actions during the afternoon may have been just because he was pouting that there weren't enough people in authority backing his plan.
Trailing badly in his own polls, Brazil's Bolsonaro has clearly learned from the Trump failure and is placing high military officials in his administration. When he makes his move after losing the election, he'll have the armed forces behind him, which Donald didn't.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Who cares?
There are standard rules for this stuff in a courtroom. I realize this isn't a courtroom, but we should want the same principles followed.
We almost 100% reject hearsay in a courtroom. The principle behind that is sound. We know eyewitness testimony is frequently unreliable. We know relayed information is almost always diluted factually. So for a witness testifying to what she was told, our default position should be extreme skepticism.
We don't have to have emotional discussions. We don't need it to turn into "OMG you are accusing this poor girl of lying."
I have zero issues taking her first hand accounts with a heavy weight and rejecting any games of telephone. I don't need to focus on her as a person or get into any discussions about misogyny, sexism, favoritism, etc.
Now if the driver of the vehicle was refusing to cooperate or the other passenger(s), I might change my mind. Because in that scenario the first hand account is not available.
But if the driver is willing and is not presented, the only motivations in question should be that of the committee, not this young lady.
ZADO
Footballguy
i did after all the controversy
I find it hard people like Giuliani shared info with this girl like she said the did , i mean who is she ?
Yes i have my doubts . AS for lying you act like people dont lie in these situations ,or the very least embellish .
If everyone knew about what might happen why didnt she say something sooner to someone in charge of the capital and why wouldnt Pelosi know what everyone else seemed to know and act accordingly?
roadkill1292
Footballguy
If Hutchinson lied, it should be easy to get people on the record to say so. Like when we asked for proof of massive election fraud, it's time to put up or shut up.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Me, he implied she lied on purpose under oath. I want to know if he really thinks that
Do you think she lied on purpose under oath?
Captain Cranks
Footballguy
I'd hate to be married to some of you people. The tireless defensiveness and deflection is nauseating.
ZADO
Footballguy
Cheney was leading the girl thru the whole testimony ,its laughable . She would get destroyed in a cross examination .
I remember watching the impeachment for this on tv and thinking how different the facts the prosecution presented to how different the rebuttal was from the defense ,thats the difference between this charade and a serious court room. Its an ### kicking show and nothing more without any defense to the accusations .
I remember watching the impeachment for this on tv and thinking how different the facts the prosecution presented to how different the rebuttal was from the defense ,thats the difference between this charade and a serious court room. Its an ### kicking show and nothing more without any defense to the accusations .
moleculo
Footballguy
who is she? She was the one who answered the phone when you wanted to get in touch with the WH Chief of Staff.
Pretty sure we've deducted here that after 2 hours of testimony, only 2 incidences (the van and comment about Trump saying Pence deserves [to he hanged]) were actual hearsay and those would have no bearing on the veracity of the rest --
ZADO
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
zado still doesnt want to answer the question. Shows me all I need to know about him
Mookie
Footballguy
Hearsay is a narrowly defined term, and is permitted at trial in many circumstances (i.e. exceptions).
moleculo
Footballguy
Executive Assistant.
If you know anything about bureaucracies, you know they are the ones who actually get #### done.
ZADO
Footballguy
ya get things done,like warning the capital police that the crowd coming on the 6th is going to be armed lol
Mookie
Footballguy
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Surprised no one has mentioned this yet (note the date):
I don't see any mention of steering wheels and physical altercations, so it's certainly possible that there's disagreement on that point, but if this article is accurately conveying Engel's testimony, it sure sounds like his account largely matches what Hutchinson testified yesterday. Also, to the extent that the anecdote has any legal value at all, it's in terms of establishing Trump's state of mind in that moment: He wanted to lead an armed mob toward the Capitol to prevent Congress from certifying the election results. Whether he grabbed the steering wheel is titillating, but legally irrelevant.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
Pretty sure I just gave you a detailed explanation why I don't care about her motivations for all second hand accounts she relayed and that I was willing to give heavy weight to her first hand accounts.
I remember this being a common talking point for Blasey Ford. Pretty sure Bruce and Tim used to ask this repeatedly. My position was similar in that her motivation wasnt as important as the fact that she was relaying a 35 year old story that was missing more details than it had. Our default position should be rejection.
Pretty sure there is an exchange in there where one of them asked me if I thought she was telling the truth. My reply was "I don't care"
This of course was a loaded feed trough for virtue points.
The Commish
Footballguy
I'll be honest. Was a bit disappointed to come in this AM and NOT see "arguments" for the secret service being part of the deep state and this testimony from Hutchinson as evidence of a coup attempt and/or hostage situation. I thought for sure that would come to light. The conspiracy theorists are slipping...can't keep up I guess.
