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***OFFICIAL*** 2012 MINNESOTA VIKINGS SEASON THREAD (1 Viewer)

If Harvin can't go, I will obviously be upset, but I would think that Jarius Wright would get a chance to take his spot, since they are similar in skill sets (no way he is anywhere near Harvin in talent). He hasn't been active in a game yet this year, but I have wanted to see him play. This might give him a shot. And he can't be any worse than the other WRs that they have been trotting out there.

 
I think this is the case whether Harvin can play or not. Unless this team flips a switch similar to what they did against SF (which was a minor miracle as it turns out) they will be lucky to win 1 more (det or StL) the rest of the way.

My dream: Musgrave gets the axe and Frazier, in survival mode, nabs Norv Turner as the OC after SD cans him.

But whether Musgrave is in over his head or whatever, Ponder needs to take a lot of blame on this. His WRs aren't beating anyone and his OC refuses to be inventive in the least. But he was friggin putrid yesterday. He looked like Spurgeon Wynn. You just had absolutely no faith that he could get ANYTHING done as that game wore on...
Hold on now, I'm not sure I want a guy in there that will give Peterson the Ryan Mathews treatment either.
 
I think this is the case whether Harvin can play or not. Unless this team flips a switch similar to what they did against SF (which was a minor miracle as it turns out) they will be lucky to win 1 more (det or StL) the rest of the way.

My dream: Musgrave gets the axe and Frazier, in survival mode, nabs Norv Turner as the OC after SD cans him.

But whether Musgrave is in over his head or whatever, Ponder needs to take a lot of blame on this. His WRs aren't beating anyone and his OC refuses to be inventive in the least. But he was friggin putrid yesterday. He looked like Spurgeon Wynn. You just had absolutely no faith that he could get ANYTHING done as that game wore on...
Hold on now, I'm not sure I want a guy in there that will give Peterson the Ryan Mathews treatment either.
How about Emmitt Smith treatment? And a downfield passing game?
 
Just throwing this out there for discussion. Looking forward to 2013 let's say the Vikes draft either stud WR/stud LB in the 1st, the other in the 2nd, OG in the 3rd, and sign Michael Vick as a UFA. I say the Vikes would legitimately contend for NFC central if Peterson/Harvin stay healthy. I realize Vick is a pariah and looks like garbage in 2012... but you can't overlook that he's getting slaughtered every play behid a depleted OL in Reid's insanely pass happy offense. It could be the case where a guy looks like he's done when he still has the potential to be a productive QB, used correctly. As bad as our OL looks with Ponder, Vick might consider the Minnesota pocket (not to mention handing off to Peterson 25 times a game) club med compared to Philly. Rip away.

 
Just throwing this out there for discussion. Looking forward to 2013 let's say the Vikes draft either stud WR/stud LB in the 1st, the other in the 2nd, OG in the 3rd, and sign Michael Vick as a UFA. I say the Vikes would legitimately contend for NFC central if Peterson/Harvin stay healthy. I realize Vick is a pariah and looks like garbage in 2012... but you can't overlook that he's getting slaughtered every play behid a depleted OL in Reid's insanely pass happy offense. It could be the case where a guy looks like he's done when he still has the potential to be a productive QB, used correctly. As bad as our OL looks with Ponder, Vick might consider the Minnesota pocket (not to mention handing off to Peterson 25 times a game) club med compared to Philly. Rip away.
I don't know- smells like the McNabb experiment all over again.If the QB situation remains dicey, I think they need to go with a proven FA WR vs another rookie WR. Wallace is a possibility, but I don't think Ponder's arm can deliver the ball in a way to benefit from a fast route runner like Wallace. I would love to see Amendola as a Viking- but I'd also like to see a change at OC to get a guy who could create havoc moving Harvin and Amendola around. Harvin+Amendola+Rudolph with Peterson as an occasional screen option should be good enough for any QB- even Ponder- to have success. They also need to replace Kluwe- some of those punts vs SEA were horribly short.LB, O-line, and Safety should be their top draft priorities.
 
I don't know- smells like the McNabb experiment all over again.
I hear you there, but I considered McNabb a fat cat when the Vikes signed him (no work ethic, uncoachable, bad leader, no longer athletic). He'd had that label for a while IMHO as proven by Reid's willingness to trade him to a division rival. I don't see similar complaints about Vick, who I view as a victim of circumstance in Philly (insane scheme, OL depletion). I think Vick, in a rational offensive scheme, has a lot more to offer than an overweight and unmotivated McNabb did. Vick seems to still have a lot of drive and plenty of athleticism, and has shown more ability to air the ball out than McNabb did in his twilight. We can take a better look at options next March, but JMHO Vick should not be overlooked as an option. I can't imagine there will be too much competition to sign him.
 
The thing with Vick is that his play style is reckless- he smacks his passing hand on an O-line players helmet 1-2 times per season, he gets concussions, he gets tender ribs...is that really an upgrade? Even if he's causing 2x the turnovers this season because of PHI's O-line issues, he has still turned over the ball too much this season. I don't think his passing accuracy is greater than what they have currently to warrant the shift, while Ponder and Webb have shown similar scrambling ability but just aren't using it on a regular basis (whether that decision is up to them or the offensive scheme is to blame is the question).

 
Just throwing this out there for discussion. Looking forward to 2013 let's say the Vikes draft either stud WR/stud LB in the 1st, the other in the 2nd, OG in the 3rd, and sign Michael Vick as a UFA. I say the Vikes would legitimately contend for NFC central if Peterson/Harvin stay healthy. I realize Vick is a pariah and looks like garbage in 2012... but you can't overlook that he's getting slaughtered every play behid a depleted OL in Reid's insanely pass happy offense. It could be the case where a guy looks like he's done when he still has the potential to be a productive QB, used correctly. As bad as our OL looks with Ponder, Vick might consider the Minnesota pocket (not to mention handing off to Peterson 25 times a game) club med compared to Philly. Rip away.
Maybe we can get Vick and Fat Andy as a package deal. I am joking but stranger things have happened (ie Brett Favre).
 
Just throwing this out there for discussion. Looking forward to 2013 let's say the Vikes draft either stud WR/stud LB in the 1st, the other in the 2nd, OG in the 3rd, and sign Michael Vick as a UFA. I say the Vikes would legitimately contend for NFC central if Peterson/Harvin stay healthy. I realize Vick is a pariah and looks like garbage in 2012... but you can't overlook that he's getting slaughtered every play behid a depleted OL in Reid's insanely pass happy offense. It could be the case where a guy looks like he's done when he still has the potential to be a productive QB, used correctly. As bad as our OL looks with Ponder, Vick might consider the Minnesota pocket (not to mention handing off to Peterson 25 times a game) club med compared to Philly. Rip away.
NO.IMO Vick is a below average passer and overall just to reckless. He's only had the two good seasons one in ATL and one in Philly and every other year he has cosistantly underacheived and battled injurys because of his playstyle. He used to be able to compensate for his difficancys as a passer with his athletic ability but now that is deteriorating more and more every year. He's going to have to adjust his game and learn how to read a defense, stay in the pocket, get the ball out quicker and take the checkdown once in awhile at some point in the near future if he wants stay in the league.

If he gets a true stud WR with his arm strength he probably could put it all together and have a couple great seasons in the right situation but I'd prefer the vikes just stay away, get legitmate NFL coaching staff and delvelop their own franchise QB(If Ponder can turn it around great if not then draft another until you hit one I don't really care how long it takes). We've gone the vetren/retread route ever since I can remember and we all know how that ends.....98,09 best case scenario enough said.

 
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Any earthly idea what Dodds is thinking ranking the Vikes as the #10 defense this week?

They've been getting trucked lately and they won't even have Percy for a possible kickoff return TD.

 
If Harvin can't go, I will obviously be upset, but I would think that Jarius Wright would get a chance to take his spot, since they are similar in skill sets (no way he is anywhere near Harvin in talent). He hasn't been active in a game yet this year, but I have wanted to see him play. This might give him a shot. And he can't be any worse than the other WRs that they have been trotting out there.
This. They need to get this kid on the feild and see what he can do regardless if Harvin is injured or not. Continuing to play Jenkins and Aroma does nothing for this franchise right now or in the future.

 
It could be UUgly for the Vikes this weekend, Ponder not playing well of late

an no Harvin, I see it tough for them scoring points, The Lions are no monster

but have been playing a lot better on both sides of the ball.

This could be the breaking game for the Vikes this year..

(they've slowly gone down hill on defense and offense)

Whichever team wins this game is feeling like they still have a shot, if loose done..

 
'Raider Nation said:
Any earthly idea what Dodds is thinking ranking the Vikes as the #10 defense this week?They've been getting trucked lately and they won't even have Percy for a possible kickoff return TD.
The defense has not been playing well and Harvin if he plays will not be fully healthy, he has a bad ankle sprain that he will be trying to play through and teams have been doing a good job of kicking touchbacks in the Dome lately. I am not sure if the Lions kicker can do that but it will be my guess that they try.Early projections for Dodds are likely based on recent performance (this season or data or something else) and that could be why he has them ranked like this now but will be revised later in the week. What you are looking at may be just considered a numerical baseline from whatever time frame he is using would be my guess.
 
Is Ponder turning into Tebow? All he does is quote the Bible on Twitter.
If I was performing the way he's been and I was about to go into the weekend without my main offensive weapon, I think I'd become a monk too. He's going to need some angels guiding passes if he plans on completing more than 5 passes this weekend.
 
Adrian Peterson indicated Friday that he doesn't expect Percy Harvin (ankle, doubtful) to play in Week 10.

Players listed as doubtful almost never play. Harvin is so tough that we haven't put it past him, but his teammate doesn't sound hopeful. "With him being out, some guys, a lot of guys are going to have to step up," said Peterson. Peterson is optimistic that Harvin's inactivity might serve to help Christian Ponder, who's locked onto his top receiver. "When Christian drops back, his eyes are going to be really going around and seeing who's open," Peterson said. "Hopefully, it's a blessing in a disguise and we get things going."

Is this kind of a dig on Ponder from A.P???? Sounds like it lol

 
As I posted in the game thread.. Interesting that Ponder had one of his best game when Harvin wasn't on the field..

Makes you wonder if Ponder was focusing too much on Harvin, if Musgrave was, or, based on Harvin's outburst the week before, if he is becoming a vocal problem?

They have two weeks to work on it as they have a lot of wok to do in the next month to stay in it. :popcorn:

 
'snogger said:
As I posted in the game thread.. Interesting that Ponder had one of his best game when Harvin wasn't on the field..Makes you wonder if Ponder was focusing too much on Harvin, if Musgrave was, or, based on Harvin's outburst the week before, if he is becoming a vocal problem?They have two weeks to work on it as they have a lot of wok to do in the next month to stay in it. :popcorn:
Sample size is too small, especially considering the poor Det defense. I did like seeing J Wright on the field though. Ponder needs to build chemistry with him and Rudolph for this to be a long term job.
 
'snogger said:
As I posted in the game thread.. Interesting that Ponder had one of his best game when Harvin wasn't on the field..

Makes you wonder if Ponder was focusing too much on Harvin, if Musgrave was, or, based on Harvin's outburst the week before, if he is becoming a vocal problem?

They have two weeks to work on it as they have a lot of wok to do in the next month to stay in it. :popcorn:
Sample size is too small, especially considering the poor Det defense. I did like seeing J Wright on the field though. Ponder needs to build chemistry with him and Rudolph for this to be a long term job.
I agree... Well.. :mellow:

Then again I think most of last week were writing this off as a loss after the way the Vikes had looked the last 3 weeks and the Lions "seemed" to be improving..

At least we get to spend the next 2 weeks being Happy about our 6-4 Vikings!!! :thumbup:

 
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There may be something to it being addition by subtraction as AD suggested. Ponder played perhaps his best game of the season yesterday from my perspective. He showed some zip on his throws that I had begun to doubt he was capable of doing. Being able to check down to Harvin may have become too much of a security blanket for Ponder and as the best option has been over used. This in turn made the offense too predictable for the opposing defense which made making those plays more difficult than they are normally.

I am going to have to watch the game again as I am still a bit surprised with how well Ponder played after the past 3 weeks of being very very bad.

I hope this means Ponder has turned a page in his career and he keeps improving.

The run defense got back on track but the Lions are not a good running team and they abandoned the run pretty quickly after it proved ineffective. I am not convinced that this area is fixed.

The extra time with the bye will be a great help as the Vikings prepare to play the Bears in 2 out of the next 3 games.

 
Run defense finally toughened up, but the big thing was that the offense opened up. I think this has to be on Musgrave, as they actually ran deeper routes, which has been totally missing until the 4th quarter in past weeks. We even had a Carlson sighting! Rudolph is more than just a red zone guy all of a sudden! The end is truly near!

I think Wright deserves a spot as a starter now. Maybe put Wright and Simpson on the ends and put Harvin in the slot? You have to assume that the Lions didn't view him as a threat and that's why he had the early success, but it would be nice to get a half-season under his belt especially with the upcoming tougher defenses.

Johnson finally exploited the loss of Chris Cook yesterday- Marshall may have another 21 catch game in the next few weeks.

I feel better about Ponder now as this was probably even a better performance than over the first month of the season. Getting a healthy Harvin back after the bye suggests good things- just hope that the tougher competition doesn't get blamed for the regression if they go back to the dink and dunk scheme.

 
It's not often (okay, it's NEVER) that I agree with Governor :loco: Dayton. But in this case he's spot on:

Minnesota governor threatens to undo stadium deal Posted by Mike Florio on November 13, 2012, 10:47 AM ESTThe Vikings could eventually be back in play for L.A. As the team’s new stadium moves from blueprint to bricks and mortar, the politician who helped push the deal through a reluctant legislature isn’t happy. And he has threatened in a roundabout way to nix the project. The problems arise from the team’s willingness to play home games in London while the new stadium is being constructed, along with the notion that a portion of the team’s contribution toward the stadium costs could be raised via season-ticket holders. “The project’s strong support came from many regular Minnesotans, not just rich Minnesotans, because they believed the Vikings are also their team. If a new stadium were to betray that trust, it would be better that it not be built,” Governor Mark Dayton wrote in a letter to owners Zygi and Mark Wilf, via the Minneapolis Star Tribune. “This Private contribution is yours, not theirs,” Dayton added, opting for an underline in lieu of an exclamation point. “I said this new stadium would be a ‘People’s Stadium,’ not a ‘Rich People’s Stadium.’ I meant it then, and I mean it now.” Unless they work this out, it could end up being “No People’s Stadium.” And the Vikings could be playing at Farmer’s Field.
 
Boomer Esiason is predicting that the Vikings will overtake the Bears to win a wildcard spot. I am hoping he is right! I do think it is within the Vikings reach. How bad do they want it? :football:

Hopefully Harvin can practice today and Evans stays ahead of Guion on early downs.

 
Boomer Esiason is predicting that the Vikings will overtake the Bears to win a wildcard spot. I am hoping he is right! I do think it is within the Vikings reach. How bad do they want it? :football: Hopefully Harvin can practice today and Evans stays ahead of Guion on early downs.
As much as I'd like to see it, if Cutler is back this week (and early news suggests it's likely), there is little chance the Bears lose 3 straight. DET had a good pass rush, but they don't have ball hawks on defense like CHI does.
 
No need to wait til tomorrow. This season is done.

Jerome Simpson should be released. Constant drops, and doesn't seem to want to be there.

Ponder is not a full time starter. Never will be. I've seen enough to know. Will they draft another QB next year or the following?

Frazier will not be the coach of this team past the end of next season, if he makes it that far.

 
No need to wait til tomorrow. This season is done.Jerome Simpson should be released. Constant drops, and doesn't seem to want to be there.Ponder is not a full time starter. Never will be. I've seen enough to know. Will they draft another QB next year or the following?Frazier will not be the coach of this team past the end of next season, if he makes it that far.
Not sold on Ponder, but I wouldn't give up on him just yet either. They need a true downfield threat and better play calling IMO. This offense feels like a college one. Lots of screens, roll outs, TE heavily involved. I want to see slants, seam routes, throws from the pocket over the middle etc. I don't even know if ponder can throw the outs and curls to the sidelines because they don't let him.
 
So lets see if I can get this right.. Adrian Peterson gets the team down inside the 20 and is finding room running, it's 3rd and 2 and you decide to have Ponder throw.. :confused:

Now it's 4th and 2, you are down 3 scores.. Logic states take the 3, make it a two possession game, but you decide to go for it?

I suppose I could live with it, but NOT the decision to take AP out of the back field and have Ponder throw it.. Really??? :wall:

There were plenty of other questionable coaching decisions throughout the game, but that series showed just how bad this coaching staff is.

If I'm Wilf I would have called Frasier immediately after the game and told him after that series you either fire Musgrave, or I'm letting both of you go. :bye:

 
I still don't see Ponder having composure it takes to be a franchise QB. Forget larger things like wins and losses. All you have to do is look at how guys like Cutler, and heck even the rookies we've opposed, how they keep going through progressions while under duress. I even see Keapernic, Weeden and Tannehill showing pocket presence. It's a fundemental requirement of the position. Ponder just looks panicked with happy feet at all times. Replays showed him oblivious to wide open receivers while he's tunnel visioned on the one guy he wants to throw to (Jenkins wide open on one replay was particularly bad). Unfortunately, with all the fingers pointing at Musgrave and WR drops, Ponder's shortcomings are being masked. I'm already seeing posts on Purple Thoughts arguing Ponder deserves 2013 with improved WRs before a decision can be made on him. I'd have to see a heck of a lot more the remaining weeks to agree. For my money, a few more catches here or there wouldn't change that Ponder doesn't have the composure of a franchise QB.

On Musgrave though, I agree... putting the ball in a shaky Ponder's hands and not feeding a hot Peterson on 3rd and 2 was terrible. Ponder has had some success rolling out and going to Rudolph on that play, but looks to be a case of going to that play until the well has gone dry. That's exactly the play defenses are expecting if they've watched any Viking film. If our guy is not wide open, there is no secondary option. It's a partularly bad playcall on 4th after running it without success on 3rd. If there was a possibility of going for it on 4th, K.I.S.S. and give it to Peterson. Misusing Peterson in the redzone is a 2012 theme IMHO. He's a difference maker, not a decoy.

Very frustrating season despite being over .500. As a gung ho fan, eeking out some early season wins was fun after 3-13 last year. But I've found the horrid weeks to be even more depressing. It's hard to see how we're going to fill glaring needs drafting at 15, while seeing teams like Indy and Washington blow past us after a good draft. We'll definitely need huge FA success next offseason.

 
1) Fire Musgrave.

2) Go all in on acquiring Amendola.

3) Bring in a legit competitor for Ponder to either get him to step up his game or move on (Alex Smith?).

Harvin is likely out for at least one more game- maybe two- they may be out of the running by the time he can come back.

 
Very frustrating season despite being over .500. As a gung ho fan, eeking out some early season wins was fun after 3-13 last year. But I've found the horrid weeks to be even more depressing. It's hard to see how we're going to fill glaring needs drafting at 15, while seeing teams like Indy and Washington blow past us after a good draft. We'll definitely need huge FA success next offseason.
I was just looking at that. The 2013 first round looks to be extremely defense heavy. However, around the midpoint there are a few WRs that are worthy of selection. Outside of that, the interior of either line could use more talent or a linebacker would also fit the bill.

 
2) Go all in on acquiring Amendola.
Isn't Amendola a slot guy like Harvin?
He typically lines up outside, but they do move him around at times.
Ok, well any WR upgrade is great IMHO, but I'd think we want/need bonafide outside receivers and are pretty set with Harvin at slot. I'd thought of Amendola (being 5'11 188) as being more in the Welker mold of being an undersized guy who is quick and good for YAC. I could be wrong though since I haven't followed the Rams much. I know Amendola gets a ton of catches, maybe they are prototypical WR routes.
 
Oof. This team is such a roller coaster of talent and emotion. One weel it seems as though everything is coming together and the next it all just falls apart.

Will we see the Joe Webb show before season's end if Ponder keeps this up?

 
I am not on the fire Musgrave bandwagon yet. The team is not executing in the red zone and Ponder puts too much air under the ball.

Spielman has been talking about the three year rule when it comes to QBs. So I gather we won't be looking at a QB in next years draft. The only QB that I like that could be available in next years draft is Tyler Bray. Not sure I want Bray to come out this year because I will be pissed if he gets passed the Vikings.

 
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I am not on the fire Musgrave bandwagon yet. The team is not executing in the red zone and Ponder puts too much air under the ball.

Spielman has been talking about the three year rule when it comes to QBs. So I gather we won't be looking at a QB in next years draft. The only QB that I like that could be available in next years draft is Tyler Bray. Not sure I want Bray to come out this year because I will be pissed if he gets passed the Vikings.
If the decision on 3rd and 2 and then 4th and 2 didn't answer that for you I'm not sure what will.. :confused: There is no way in hell you DON'T give the ball to Peterson on both plays..

I'd much rather be in here :argue: whether they should have gone for it or not if Peterson had run it twice and not gotten the first down, then be here :rant: because they didn't even bother to give it to him.

 
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Will we see the Joe Webb show before season's end if Ponder keeps this up?
Only if a final decision is made that Ponder is not the long term answer IMHO. Need to sink or swim Ponder in 2012 and wash our hands of it if it doesn't pan out.
:goodposting: No way they are switching to Webb now. They've decided that Ponder IS the starter and will let him play out the season to see if there is any improvement.
 
Spielman has been talking about the three year rule when it comes to QBs.
I'd say that too if I wanted job security re: my drafted QB for 3 years. I don't think it is rational to say it takes that long for a QB to show what he needs to show. How many great QBs took 3 years to show something? All I can think of is Alex Smith, and after a 7 year assessment he was replaced by the first cabable sub that came along.
 
Screw you, Allen. Knocked our best OL out for the year with a cheap shot. You will get yours one day, too. Gl, punk.

 
ETA: That "3 years to develop" assertion by Spielman bothered me so much that I'm listing the QBs who were drafted in the 1st and 2nd rounds between 2000-2010, so we can figure out which how many support a 3 year rule:

2000

Chad Pennington (maybe, but wasted time)

2001

Michael Vick (excelled 1st year)

Drew Brees (possibly the one example)

Quincy Carter (wasted < 3 years to conclude a flop)

Marques Tuiasosopo (not given 3 years starting, flop)

2002

David Carr (wasted 5 years to mediocrity)

Joey Harrington (wasted 4 years to mediocrity)

Patrick Ramsey (played parts of 4 years... wasted to mediocrity)

2003

Carson Palmer (stud in < 3 years)

Byron Leftwich (3 years of mediocrity then flop)

Kyle Boller (started 2 years with mediocre results... played 5 total uneventful years)

Rex Grossman (only played 8 games first 3 years, decent 4th year, but wasted 5 years)

2004

Eli Manning (Showed enough in 1st/2nd season to conclude franchise QB)

Phillip Rivers (Showed enough in 1st/2nd season to conclude franchise QB)

Ben Roethlisberger (SB victory 1st year, proven franchise QB <3 years)

JP Losman (wasted 5 years to mediocrity)

2005

Alex Smith (wasted 7 years to mediocrity)

Jason Campbell (wasted 4 years to mediocrity)

Aaron Rodgers (sat most of first 3 seasons, proven franchise QB 1st year starting in year 4)

2006

Matt Leinert (only started 1st year, wasted 4 years to mediocrity)

Jay Cutler (sat most of 1st year, proven franchise QB in 2nd year)

Vince Young (showed fools gold flashes before flopping, oddball sample)

Kellen Clemens (never invested 3 years into before flop)

Tarvaris Jackson (I don't even need to comment here)

2007

Jamarcus Russell (wasted 3 years and flop)

Brady Quinn (wasted 3 seasons until 3rd season flop)

Kevin Kolb (4 seasons holding clipboard, arguable flop in FA signing)

Trent Edwards (first 2 seasons wasted to mediocrity, 3rd/4th basically benched)

2008

Matt Ryan (so-so 1st year but showed enough to be franchise QB in 2nd year)

Joe Flacco (so-so 1st year but showed enough to be franchise QB in 2nd year)

Brian Brohm (never given opportunity, flop)

Chad Henne (sat most of 1st year, wasted 2nd-3rd years to mediocrity)

2009

Matthew Stafford (despite injuries proven franchise QB < 3 years)

Mark Sanchez (much debated player but I'd say 3 years wasted on mediocrity, but showed more than Ponder after 2)

Josh Freeman (proven franchise capabilities in year 2)

Pat White (never given opportunity, wasted flop)

2010

Sam Bradford (I would say 3rd year being wasted to mediocrity... but maybe)

Tim Tebow (Denver cut bait < 3 years)

Jimmy Clausen (Cleveland cut bait < 3 years)

JMHO, Brees is the only player who could arguably support a 3 year development rule, but my recollection is he showed a lot more early promise in being pursued by Miami/New Orleans as a FA. Sanchez might support it, TBD, but odds are against it. Otherwise, seems like it is pretty obvious a lot quicker than 3 years if you've struck oil or mud drafting QB in the 1st/2nd round.

 
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If you really want a :kicksrock: moment .. go compare Ponders stats so far compared to T. Jack at the same point in their careers. :mellow:

 
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