***Official 2014 St. Louis Cardinals Thread*** (2 Viewers)

[Bob Sacamano]

Grichuk, Piscotty, Taveras, Craig, Holliday

Will Jay even be #5 for long? I mean, that's a defense you wouldn't wish on the Cubs, but it sure seems like the organization is headed there sooner than later.

 

[Brady Marino]

I'm not sure Taveras stays down much after June 1st, assuming his defense in CF is fine. If it is, buh bye Jay.

It'll take Piscotty and/or Grichuk hitting like Barry Bonds for Craig's status with the team to change, at least at this point.

I wouldn't be so quick to write-off a career .292/.355/.399 guy that can play all three OF positions. There's room for him as the No. 5 OF.

Jon Jay is a 4th OF/strong platoon CF. He's a steady hand, but doesn't offer much else beyond the slash line. He's a capable CF, but not elite. He's got some speed, but not elite. He can pop a HR every now and then, but not elite power. He understands he needs to take a walk sometimes and isn't a hacker, which are pluses. He deserves a chance to start in this league, but Taveras is a special talent that can take what Jay has and be better (outside of speed and defense) plus you have Grichuk and Piscotty that are also close to MLB ready. And with the Holliday and Craig bookends in the OF and Bourjos' elite defense, what else is there for Jay to do in STL? Let him go elsewhere and get paid.

 

[RnR]

I don't disagree with any of that.

I'm just saying... that sounds like a 2015 or 2016 bridge to cross. Lots can happen between now and then, but shedding yourself of a quality 4th OF "just because" doesn't seem like the move.

In other words: Let's get to the point that we no longer need Shane Robinson around before we worry about needing to get rid of Jay.

 

[Brady Marino]

I don't disagree with any of that.

I'm just saying... that sounds like a 2015 or 2016 bridge to cross. Lots can happen between now and then, but shedding yourself of a quality 4th OF "just because" doesn't seem like the move.

In other words: Let's get to the point that we no longer need Shane Robinson around before we worry about needing to get rid of Jay.

I don't think the Cards should do anything with Jay this year UNLESS Taveras sets the world on fire and Bourjos bat picks up, then Jay becomes a trade deadline carrot, IMO.

More than likely, Jay becomes bait in the offseason.

 

[RnR]

I don't disagree with any of that.

I'm just saying... that sounds like a 2015 or 2016 bridge to cross. Lots can happen between now and then, but shedding yourself of a quality 4th OF "just because" doesn't seem like the move.

In other words: Let's get to the point that we no longer need Shane Robinson around before we worry about needing to get rid of Jay.

I don't think the Cards should do anything with Jay this year UNLESS Taveras sets the world on fire and Bourjos bat picks up, then Jay becomes a trade deadline carrot, IMO.

More than likely, Jay becomes bait in the offseason.

BTW- Welcome to the Volunteer State. I smell a cornhole.

 

[Brady Marino]

I don't disagree with any of that.

I'm just saying... that sounds like a 2015 or 2016 bridge to cross. Lots can happen between now and then, but shedding yourself of a quality 4th OF "just because" doesn't seem like the move.

In other words: Let's get to the point that we no longer need Shane Robinson around before we worry about needing to get rid of Jay.

I don't think the Cards should do anything with Jay this year UNLESS Taveras sets the world on fire and Bourjos bat picks up, then Jay becomes a trade deadline carrot, IMO.

More than likely, Jay becomes bait in the offseason.

BTW- Welcome to the Volunteer State. I smell a cornhole.

The BBQ is better over here, though.

 

[Brady Marino]

Grichuk called up, Robinson sent down.

One thing to remember about Grichuk: he handles CF just fine. Wouldn't shock me one bit if he pays major league dividends before Taveras.

 

[pollardsvision]

You guys want BJ Upton for Jay?

 

[Brady Marino]

You guys want BJ Upton for Jay?

HAHAHAHAnope

 

[Brady Marino]

Although if there ever was a team that has the assets to pull off a Mike Stanton trade, it is the Cards.

 

[RnR]

Although if there ever was a team that has the assets to pull off a Mike Stanton trade, it is the Cards.

Don't tease me like that.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Make room, please... Mr. Taveras is taking his first steps towards Cooperstown.

 

[gianmarco]

Make room, please... Mr. Taveras is taking his first steps towards Cooperstown.

Nice debut!

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Make room, please... Mr. Taveras is taking his first steps towards Cooperstown.

Nice debut!

Another hit yesterday. I say we see what we can get for Holliday and move Craig to left.

 

[gianmarco]

And another brutal loss. Just when things were seeming to turn around....

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

And another brutal loss. Just when things were seeming to turn around....

Ugh. Knocked Shields around and still couldn't get the win.

I like seeing the bats wake up, but we really were spoiled with all that RISP hitting magic the last couple seasons.

So... David Price. Small-market talent on the verge of getting paid. Is it worth giving up Wacha or Miller to get him? How about Taveras?

 

[RnR]

And another brutal loss. Just when things were seeming to turn around....

Ugh. Knocked Shields around and still couldn't get the win.

I like seeing the bats wake up, but we really were spoiled with all that RISP hitting magic the last couple seasons.

So... David Price. Small-market talent on the verge of getting paid. Is it worth giving up Wacha or Miller to get him? How about Taveras?

Howabout Lynn, Piscotty and Wong?

 

[gianmarco]

I'm not a fan/believer that one game can affect a lot but last night might be one of those critical points. If they had blown that, things could have turned disastrous. Instead, let's see if they can use that win to their advantage and get out of this funk.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Matheny announced today that Wacha needs an extra day before his next start, so he's pulling Carlos Martinez out of the bullpen the next few days and starting him on Sunday.

I'm a big Carlos fan so I hope Sunday goes well for him. Still, hard to criticize Matheny for picking the five he's put in the rotation so far.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

You guys think that Holliday will pick it up? Looking at his batted ball profile, the only think that is really different is his HR/FB % is way down. BABIP is a little lower than usual, but not bad.

Anything else going on?

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

You guys think that Holliday will pick it up? Looking at his batted ball profile, the only think that is really different is his HR/FB % is way down. BABIP is a little lower than usual, but not bad.

Anything else going on?

He's getting on base well this week, but his power seems to have disappeared. Matheny is hitting Holliday second today to see if that helps him and the three guys behind him.

Haven't heard anything about nagging injury or anything like that.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Wacha and Garcia on the DL. Guess I should have considered the fine print when I wished for Carlos Martinez in the rotation.

The good news: with two roster spots open, Pete Kozma was called up. I think this means the biggest decision left for the club is if they should wear the "Cardinals" home whites or the "St. Louis" home off-whites for Game 1 of the NLDS.

 

[ffldrew]

Went Coors field tonight along with 30k Cardinal fans and Lance Lynn as well as Matt Adams put on a show

 

[gianmarco]

Let's see what you got, Oscar.

 

[urbanhack]

Let's see what you got, Oscar.

 

[ffldrew]

Looking at Yadi's thumb after a slide into 3rd - that won't help if something is up

 

[ffldrew]

Now Carpenter rolls over wrist fielding a ball

Yadi has a sprain thumb - will look at MRI tomorrow

 

[RnR]

####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####.

 

[worrierking]

Very bad news. Craig and Holliday have to start hitting or I'll be watching NFL in October.

 

[gianmarco]

####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####.

I guess there's no point in trading for David Price now.

 

[ffldrew]

####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####. ####.

I guess there's no point in trading for David Price now.

Agree with that - let these young guys dig hard for the year and get the payoff later

 

[gianmarco]

Wong with a HR in 5 of the last 7 games? What?

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

When Carlos Martinez is delivering his HOF induction speech, I'm sure I'm remember tonight when he outdueled Clayton Kershaw on national TV.

 

[Balco]

Cardinals really need to come away with an ace at the deadline. David Price or Cole Hamels. They have the pieces to make it work, and can also add a 2B in both deals (Zobrist/Utley).

 

[Ghost Rider]

Cardinals really need to come away with an ace at the deadline. David Price or Cole Hamels. They have the pieces to make it work, and can also add a 2B in both deals (Zobrist/Utley).

They need a hitter more than they need a pitcher. They have enough pitching for the playoffs, assuming Wacha comes back, but they don't have enough offense. 2nd to worst offense in the NL. Trading for an ace, but not improving the offense, will result in a lot of 2-1-like losses in October. o

 

[Brady Marino]

Derrick Goold ‏@dgoold 4m

#Cardinals make a move for a catcher. Kottaras moving out, and club working on deal with free-agent Pierzynski. #stlcards News @stltoday

MOTHER ####### ####.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Pierzynski sucks at everything. Weird pickup for STL.

 

[RnR]

Don't just dislike it. Hate it. Clubhouse ball cancer is looming. We're done.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

To borrow a favorite word from another sport's thread, I hope the Twins' asking price for Suzuki was DELUSIONAL. These pretzels are making me thirsty.

 

[Brady Marino]

So apparently AJ can still play a bit.

 

[gianmarco]

Oh man.....Craig and Kelly to Boston for Lackey.

Not a fan....at all.

 

[RnR]

Yeah, between this move and the Pierzynski signing... they're testing my allegiance. Hate the trade.

 

[HellToupee]

Lackey is going to be a PIA next season unless that 500k gets upgraded to .The Cards are so deep they can afford the gamble

 

[gianmarco]

For some reason, I thought Craig was younger. It also seems his contract is very back loaded. In a way, it forces them to put Taveras out there.

That said, the main reason I'm not a fan is that Lackey is 35 and really only has one direction to go, IMO.

 

[ffldrew]

Oh man.....Craig and Kelly to Boston for Lackey.

Not a fan....at all.

I could be a believer - Kelly has always struggled around 5th/6th inning - love his attitude love his tenacity - but on the 2nd and 3rd time through teams had a beat on him and he couldn't find an out pitch.

Craig is the hard one to give up - lots of versatility and if he could have just been the Craig of old he would have been nearly untouchable. We might regret this but he wasn't helping this year and he looks lost up there hitting weak grounders into DP after DP.

Lackey has had a couple of decent outings - and in the AL East he pitches in some bandboxes - so hopefully the switch to Busch and the other stadiums in the Central will help.

 

[Brady Marino]

Lackey is going to be a PIA next season unless that 500k gets upgraded to .The Cards are so deep they can afford the gamble

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 11m

Source: Lackey has told #STLCards he plans to honor his club option. No extension at this time.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Joe Kelly is fool's gold. He doesn't make enough bats miss.

Whatever bargain Allen Craig had with a Mediterranean genie expired.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Oh man.....Craig and Kelly to Boston for Lackey.

Not a fan....at all.

I'm coming around on it. Neither Craig nor Kelly would have been pieces in a bigger deal. Craig's contract was about to get ugly for a COF/1B with no power. Kelly is never going to be more than a back- of-rotation 5/6 inning guy, even with that blazing 1.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Oh man.....Craig and Kelly to Boston for Lackey.

Not a fan....at all.

I'm coming around on it. Neither Craig nor Kelly would have been pieces in a bigger deal. Craig's contract was about to get ugly for a COF/1B with no power. Kelly is never going to be more than a back- of-rotation 5/6 inning guy, even with that blazing 1.

I guess Jamie Moyer and Vida Blue were unavailable?

I think the bigger issue is that people were waiting for that move that signaled, "We're going for it."

It feels like this was the move, but that "it" = the future. And when you're acquiring a guy who's 35 years old, that's such an odd conclusion to draw.

I don't think Mozeliak is willing to make the tough call. He's not willing to say, "These 2-3 young guys are our future, they're the guys we're going to ride, and so these other guys are expendable. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong."

He decided the safest move was to dump one of the guys who who already got paid, 'cause if one of those guys blows up there's less blame to be had. He's banking on potential, and that's a REALLY scary game to play.