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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
- Start date
matuski
Footballguy
hah.. over and over. I think if you skip the personal efforts to run me out the last couple pages, I have summarized it.
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Doug B
Footballguy
You responded with a non-sequitir. He asked if you would rather HE wear a mask before spitting at you ... he didn’t ask if you thought YOU wearing a mask would protect you from his spit.
TheWinz
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
The argument that anyone would walk up and spit in my face seems a non sequitor?
If that is your fear.. don't go. Wear a hazmat suit.
A mask in of itself may be of questionable benefit if not worn correctly. I don't think anyone doubts that. The main benefit of a mask is that people don't touch their face as much which is a main, if not the main, source of transmission.
matuski
Footballguy
If we agree that masks are of questionable benefit.. where distancing and hand washing are clear in their benefit - then we are splitting hairs.
I wear masks where I have to. I don't where I don't. When in places not required, I find it extremely easy to set expectations of distancing. Dinners, lake houses, tubing, golf. All easily and safely achieved without masks. I even find it little trouble to keep my distance in grocery stores, but if that is not the case for you, sure wear a mask. Preferable wear it correctly, and not the same mask everyday or even all day.
Doug B
Footballguy
Venue-dependent, I think. The more room people have to spread out, the more face covering protocols can ease situationally.
I don’t agree with “distant third” for face coverings in most everyday indoor environments like grocery stores ... I see it more as three legs of a stool. By contrast, three guys mopping an airplane hangar floor can do their jobs safely sans face coverings.
matuski
Footballguy
I see it more like a training wheel, learn to ride without it and completely unnecessary, but this is a reasonable disagreement.
Your post definitely reinforces the distancing as #1.
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Doug B
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
The hypothetical results from a resistance to address the actual. I never suggested efficacy versus hypotheticals.
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Doug B
Footballguy
Of course distancing is the best method. Can't catch it if there is nobody around you.
But for those in more populated areas, a mask can prevent the spread of the virus. Not necessarily through the filtering of air, but by the reduced likelihood of people touching their face.
Now if you washed your hands before you touch your face, every single time, then a mask is rendered useless. But the chances of that are next to nill.
If wearing a mask reduces the touching of your face by say 50%, that is a significant benefit. That's why wearing a comfortable mask is probably the most important thing so you are not constantly adjusting/touching it.
TheWinz
Footballguy
I made my mask out of a hefty bag. I forgot to cut holes in it. I suffocated and died. Did my covering benefit me? No. Did it benefit others? Yes.
I had no mask, so I grabbed a sheet of Bounty paper towel. I had already used it to wipe down the counter, so it was wet. I held it over my mouth and nose. Did my paper towel benefit me? Probably not. Did my paper towel benefit others? Yes.
Is there a time where a face covering does not benefit OTHERS?
matuski
Footballguy
Can we stick to reasonable representations?
I mean if we are going to the most ridiculous imaginary spaces... you win. I can't think of a more obscure situation.
matuski
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
Then exchange his posited “spit in your mouth” for “COVID-laden breath aerosols from within three feet”. In a situation where you can’t get that six feet, you want that COVID carrier with an ear loop mask or something.
IMHO, that’s not a contrived situation to consider.
matuski
Footballguy
This seems to be an argument against masks at all.
Which is not my position.
I would revert, again, to distance. How may places can you not remain 3 feet away?
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renesauz
IBL Representative
masks don't stop people from touching their face. If anything, they cause you to touch your face MORE. Masks block the tiny moisture droplets from your mouth (which contain the virus) from spewing all over the air when you cough or sneeze or talk.
TheWinz
Footballguy
OK, I will make it a very simple question then, without the fun of my stupid scenarios...
Can you think of a time where a face covering does not benefit others, versus not wearing one?
Doug B
Footballguy
Distance, when achievable, certainly does the job.
Consider that a lot of people can’t take consistent social distance for granted in their everyday activities.
matuski
Footballguy
Sure.. the significant % of you not wearing it correctly. Your neighbor made that mask? Mouth covered not nose, taking it on and off, non fitted N95 (rigid one size does not fit all), scratching your nose grabbing your phone grabbing a milk carton and putting it back... dentist pooping on your chest.
Are you close enough to someone that the leakage from the mask (there is leakage) is a risk?
Doug B
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
It seems no matter where we go distance is a key part of our every day activities. Signs all around us and stickers on the floor to guide us.
Doug B
Footballguy
Believe it or don’t — those signs and stickers aren’t failsafes. People’s experiences in other parts of the country differ from yours.
matuski
Footballguy
Certainly, and if you find yourself in a position that you can't safely distance... wear a mask.
Better yet.. don't be in that position.
TheWinz
Footballguy
I think you missed my question. It was, "Can you think of a time where a face covering does not benefit others, versus not wearing one?"
How would me not wearing my face covering correctly vs not wearing one at all make it worse for others?
How would me wearing a neighbor-made mask vs not wearing one at all make it worse for others?
How would me wearing my mask over my mouth but not nose vs not wearing one at all make it worse for others?
How would me taking my mask on and off vs not wearing one at all make it worse for others?
How would me wearing an ill-fitted N95 vs not wearing one at all make it worse for others?
How would me wearing a mask while scratching my nose, grabbing my phone, grabbing a milk carton and putting it back vs not wearing one at all make it worse for others?
How would me, while wearing a mask and getting pooped on by my dentist vs not wearing one at all make it worse for others?
You seem to be missing the word OTHERS. Literally anything is better than nothing when it comes to face coverings, for the other person. Except maybe a fan attached to my face covering that points directly at them
Doug B
Footballguy
Redwes25
Footballguy
Didn’t we talk about this early on in this thread. We have literally covered every topic in here on this virus.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/health/coronavirus-immune-system.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/health/coronavirus-immune-system.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
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Insoxicated
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Face coverings do benefit others but not the wearer. If you want to protect yourself when social distancing is not possible, you must wear a N95 properly. As others pointed out, the problem with wearing any mask is that you will touch your face more or touch the mask which then touches your face. Everyone needs to maintain distance and wear a face covering when distance isn’t possible to slow this thing. Washing hands properly and often is a must. We touch more things than we think.
TheWinz
Footballguy
I read through a few of those. I just wanted to chat first hand with a COVID recoverer. And no, I am not one of the it's a hoax nutjobs.
TheWinz
Footballguy
Thank you. That was entirely my point. I don't care what type of covering you have - anything is better than nothing when it comes to benefiting others. Now, if we start talking about the covering benefiting the wearer, it's an entirely different conversation. But I can't think of a single reason why a covering vs not wearing one is a bad idea, as far as "the other person" is concerned.
Well then why are governments and major health organizations all across the world encouraging people to wear masks?
Even lighter cloth ones that you say people probably aren't wearing right and are largely ineffective.
Are you suggesting that the vast majority of these governments and major health organizations all across the world are WRONG?
Seriously?
Just admit it...masks help slow this thing down. Sure, it's not the ultimate solution to this crisis but it helps.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Yeah, Chet is all over this. His company’s drug targets a receptor on white blood cells, CCR5, that happens to be a coreceptor for HIV. CCR5 also binds inflammatory cytokines, including something called RANTES that is overproduced in severe COVID.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
FWIW, Stanford’s researchers actually say the opposite; that wearing a mask is actually a reminder to people to not be touching their face and that folks wearing masks actually touch their face LESS than non-mask wearers.
They also seem to indicate that wearing a mask makes a pretty big difference (yes, even a cloth mask) in source control. It is true though that is is more about source control than self-protection for cloth masks. It’s why it’s so vitally important for EVERYONE to be wearing masks, not just people that think they’re sick or people who feel like it.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
Sheriff's near my hometown in NC went ahead and told the public they wouldn't enforce the states mask order that started yesterday.
This is ridiculous. Not because I expect law enforcement to enforce this on a large scale. None are that I know of. My state (VA) has had a mask order for over a month. Despite the screams of tyranny, nobody's getting freaking arrested for not wearing a mask to Home Depot.
It's ridiculous because it's a stupid political stunt to announce it, and it will obviously lead to fewer people wearing mask.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
From the CDC:
Everyone Should
Cover your mouth and nose with a cloth face cover when around others
- You could spread COVID-19 to others even if you do not feel sick.
- Everyone should wear a cloth face cover when they have to go out in public, for example to the grocery store or to pick up other necessities.
- Cloth face coverings should not be placed on young children under age 2, anyone who has trouble breathing, or is unconscious, incapacitated or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.
- The cloth face cover is meant to protect other people in case you are infected.
- Do NOT use a facemask meant for a healthcare worker.
- Continue to keep about 6 feet between yourself and others. The cloth face cover is not a substitute for social distancing.
I know this is obvious to everyone. Well, nearly everyone. But I just post it in the hopes that folks will quit feeding the troll who continues to argue his anecdotal arguments ad nauseam despite well published evidence from credible sources to the contrary. It would be nice if we could get the thread back on track rather than letting a small handful of posters continue to derail the thread for their own apparent amusement.
Thanks.
Everyone Should
Cover your mouth and nose with a cloth face cover when around others
- You could spread COVID-19 to others even if you do not feel sick.
- Everyone should wear a cloth face cover when they have to go out in public, for example to the grocery store or to pick up other necessities.
- Cloth face coverings should not be placed on young children under age 2, anyone who has trouble breathing, or is unconscious, incapacitated or otherwise unable to remove the mask without assistance.
- The cloth face cover is meant to protect other people in case you are infected.
- Do NOT use a facemask meant for a healthcare worker.
- Continue to keep about 6 feet between yourself and others. The cloth face cover is not a substitute for social distancing.
I know this is obvious to everyone. Well, nearly everyone. But I just post it in the hopes that folks will quit feeding the troll who continues to argue his anecdotal arguments ad nauseam despite well published evidence from credible sources to the contrary. It would be nice if we could get the thread back on track rather than letting a small handful of posters continue to derail the thread for their own apparent amusement.
Thanks.
TheWinz
Footballguy
I wish they woulda left constitutional rights out of this. Other than that, and openly announcing they will not enforce the mandate, I agree. Mark my words - a law enforcement officer trying to enforce the mask mandate will end up as a viral video and lose his/her job. Imagine losing your career trying to tell some moron to wear a mask in a grocery store.
shader
Footballguy
There’s a reason deaths are coming down now, and that they will go up very soon.
June 7-9 we had 3 straight days of sub 20k cases in the USA despite the best testing the country had ever done. The virus itself was on the downswing at that time, which is why deaths have been on a continual downswing. (That appears to have leveled off)
Since then, the virus numbers have started rising and have gone exponential in the last week.
Hospitalizations will be the story starting anytime now. Deaths will be the story in a couple weeks.
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pollardsvision
Footballguy
It's one of those things where it's fairly obvious that cops aren't going to enforce this. They just can't on a large scale.
I'm just trying to rack my brain thinking of other times where cops or government employees make it a point to announce what they won't/can't enforce (and there are many of those things).
Maybe the Sheriff should also put out a statement reminding men that if they get paid in cash and/or switch jobs a lot they can get out of a lot of their child support. And remember fellas, if it comes to it, she's probably not going to throw you in jail because the kids would never forgive her and you can't make money in jail!
Blick
Footballguy
pollardsvision
Footballguy
You're right. That is an example. I'd say it's very different, and not really applicable, but that probably would get more into politics than this thread was intended.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
San Antonio has been pleading for those with anti-bodies to donate.They just can't get enough. The fact that folks working at the donation centers have had some positive cases probably doesn't help the cause. I'm fairly certain that lack of overall donations is one of the reasons they stopped elective surgeries also. There simply isn't enough stock on hand right now for surgeries that can safely be delayed.
